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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: home_teachin on August 08, 2010, 01:01:58 pm
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I just felt like sharing some verses from the "Good Book"
"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB
No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose *bleep* has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord. (Deuteronomy 23:2 NAB)
And put a knife to your throat if you have a ravenous appetite. (Proverbs 23:2 NAB)
My teenager is screwed
"...They shall fall by the sword:
their infants shall be dashed in
pieces, and their women with child
shall be ripped up!"
direct quote from YHWH -- Hosea 13:16
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Oh *bleep*, today is Sunday. Is typing considered work?
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Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version)
18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Definitely one of my favorites...
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"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB
The context of Psalm 137 is the Babylonian captivity. The Psalmist speaks of the captors tormenting the people of God. The Psalmist is in exile and had probably witnessed the atrocities committed against his people, babies included. In the revenge-style that was so common at the time, he wishes the same upon his enemy as a description of their utter destruction. Nowhere does it say that God approves of the Psalmist’s request or that he fulfilled it. Just because it is recorded that the Psalmist wrote the imprecation, doesn’t mean it was approved by God.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version)
In the Old Testament God appears harsh for three reasons. First, it was to demonstrate the exacting requirements of the Law, a perfect and demanding standard. Second, it ultimately demonstrates the need for grace that would eventually be manifested on the cross. Third, should rebellion take root the very heart of the gospel would be at risk since the prophecies of the Messiah coming to and through Israel could be undermined should rebellion become rampant and society fall apart causing the prophecies to fail. Therefore, we can conclude that this harsh requirement was a necessary legality to instill and designate the necessity of family order and respect and to ultimately provide another safeguard that would ensure the sacrifice of Christ.
If you bothered to research the meaning of the scriptures and not just take it out of context to mock it, you wouldn't appear as ignorant.
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The biggie for Jews:
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad
Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our G-d, Adonai is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
and one of my personal favs, from Exodus, when Moses parted the Red Sea:
Mi chamocha, ba'elim, Adonai? Mi kamocha, nedar bakodesh, nora tehilot, osei feleh? Shira chadasha shib'chu ge'ulim le'shimcha al s'fat hayam; Yachad kulam hodu ve'himlichu ve'amru: "Adonai yimloch le'olam va'ed."
Who is like you, Adonai, among other gods? Who is like you, glorious in holiness, awesome in praises, doing miracles? With a new song, the ones You rescued praised Your name at the sea shore. All of them in unison gave thanks and praised Your rule, and said: "Adonai will reign for ever and ever."
What strikes me the most about these two prayers, though, is that they never mention G-d being the only god...but that G-d is the only one we should worship. Check out the Ten Commandments...Thou shalt not have any other gods before me...
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there are other gods....created gods with no power and human flaws. but there is only ONE true God and there is NONE like Him.
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the wonderful thing about the bible is its ability to be misquoted and used out of context for whatever you need it for. however, since this post wasn't made to be attacking anyone, the quotes are funny :)
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Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version)
In the Old Testament God appears harsh for three reasons. First, it was to demonstrate the exacting requirements of the Law, a perfect and demanding standard. Second, it ultimately demonstrates the need for grace that would eventually be manifested on the cross. Third, should rebellion take root the very heart of the gospel would be at risk since the prophecies of the Messiah coming to and through Israel could be undermined should rebellion become rampant and society fall apart causing the prophecies to fail. Therefore, we can conclude that this harsh requirement was a necessary legality to instill and designate the necessity of family order and respect and to ultimately provide another safeguard that would ensure the sacrifice of Christ.
If you bothered to research the meaning of the scriptures and not just take it out of context to mock it, you wouldn't appear as ignorant.
Always fun to defend psychopathic murderers ::) I could make up excuses for Charles Manson as well, but that would be silly, because what he commanded his followers to do was blatantly immoral and inexcusable.
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Darn it, liljp. Ya beat me to it!
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LOL God=Charles Manson. Yeah okay ::)
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Gods close-minded followers = Charles Mansons close-minded followers
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Charles Manson quotes
I punched my mother out once.
I'm not very wise to many things.
I'm probably one of the most dangerous men in the world if I want to be. But I never wanted to be anything but me.
If you're going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy.
There is one in particular famous murder case done by Manson followers. The Tate murders.
A man was stabbed 51 times, shot and pistol whipped. They even broke the handle of the pistol on his skull. A pregnant woman pleading for the life of her unborn child was told "Woman, I have no mercy on you." and was stabbed 16 times. They used the blood of the victims to write the word "PIG" on the door.
These murders were done in revenge for Manson.
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. Romans12:19
Manson got a 'kick' out of death and control. During the trial, one witness commented that "he [Manson] doesn't know about love... love is not his trip. Death is his trip."
Followers of God quotes
The Lord your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing. Zephaniah 3:17
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1John 4:16
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. Proverbs 8:17
Beloved, let us love on another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love 1John 4:7,8
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth 1 John 3:18
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Romans 12:9,10
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Well, you don't have to fear hell if you don't believe such a silly place exists. :angel12:
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In the name of Jesus, I rebuke you Satan.... :sad1:
A customer yelled that at my manager once.
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LOL God=Charles Manson. Yeah okay ::)
Psychotic commander of murder and immorality = Psychotic commander of murder and immorality
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I think my last post made a very clear difference between God and Manson and Manson's followers and God's followers.
You're being ridiculous and I would have expected better from you than to resort to school yard tactics of insulting.
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There are only 2 people in here that are not HELL BOUND! :o
Judge not, lest ye be judged. I guess Sherna and Sheryl are going to be lonely in heaven without the rest of us to debate with. Interesting, though, is that Marie is in this room as well, and she said only two were not hell bound... :sad1:
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well, although i appreciate that marie thinks i'm worthy of heaven (if indeed i was included in her statement) i don't agree with that post. as a matter of fact i believe in the power of prayer SO much that i have an entire church praying for people in this forum and i believe that spiritual warfare is underway! satans defeat is imminent! ;D
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well, although i appreciate that marie thinks i'm worthy of heaven (if indeed i was included in her statement) i don't agree with that post. as a matter of fact i believe in the power of prayer SO much that i have an entire church praying for people in this forum and i believe that spiritual warfare is underway! satans defeat is imminent! ;D
Thank you for praying for me. Please don't be offended, though, that my religion does not call me in the same direction. I can only hope, though, that if there really is a heaven, that there will be a place for the people I believe are good...and you are on that list. :wave:
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I think my last post made a very clear difference between God and Manson and Manson's followers and God's followers.
You're being ridiculous and I would have expected better from you than to resort to school yard tactics of insulting.
Reap what you sow, something or another (I believe that's in your cool book). I posted my favorite quote, you jumped on me for no apparent reason. I enjoy biting back as well.
You didn't show the difference really. You cherry-picked random quotes to prove a silly point, even after accepting that you were defending a being that commanded murder on dozens of occasions. "/ boring
Funny enough, the only real difference between the two is that it's never been proven Manson killed anybody himself.
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so your favorite quote is God is like Charles Manson?? alrighty then!
and how exactly have i resorted to the immature tactic of insulting? because if i have resorted to petty name calling (as compared to haha you're god is a meany just like charles manson) then please let me know. mainly so i can apologize because i find that behavior unacceptable.
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well, although i appreciate that marie thinks i'm worthy of heaven (if indeed i was included in her statement) i don't agree with that post. as a matter of fact i believe in the power of prayer SO much that i have an entire church praying for people in this forum and i believe that spiritual warfare is underway! satans defeat is imminent! ;D
Thank you for praying for me. Please don't be offended, though, that my religion does not call me in the same direction. I can only hope, though, that if there really is a heaven, that there will be a place for the people I believe are good...and you are on that list. :wave:
Listen, like I said before everyone will be judged according to what they know. You are a child of God, my prayer for you is not one of salvation but of peace. It's hard to try and be good enough for a God who is perfect. And it's not supposed to be hard. Our walk with God is going to have trials but ultimately we are supposed to enjoy Him. That's my prayer for you :)
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so your favorite quote is God is like Charles Manson?? alrighty then!
I posted my favorite quote. It had nothing to do with Manson. It was simply an analogy after you made nonsense excuses for murdering people.
and how exactly have i resorted to the immature tactic of insulting? because if i have resorted to petty name calling (as compared to haha you're god is a meany just like charles manson) then please let me know. mainly so i can apologize because i find that behavior unacceptable.
I didn't insult anyone. Your religion is not a person. If you take personal offense to me criticizing an ideology, I don't know what to tell you.
You assumed my intent with the quote, then proceeded to call me ignorant -- even when I completely understand the context of the OT and don't really need it explained. I appreciate your concern though.
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God is a type of person to me. I refer to Him as my heavenly father.....so if you say my Dad was like charles manson then, to me it's the same thing. And you said my religion is not a person...ok, so religion murdered people?? No, that was not your statement, you said God murdered people. God is not religion. God is a spiritual PERSON.
And if you really think you understand the context of the OT and still think God is comparable to charles manson then you ARE ignorant. But that is my opinion of course. I'm sure you probably think the same of me.
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marie, you really shouldn't assume who is going to heaven. As a christian it should concern you that anyone exhibits behavior that is sinful but the answer is not to shout out at them that they are hell bound. If you care about where they are going, pray for them. I'm begging you, because your own behavior is sinful in itself, you are not allowed to judge peoples eternal destination, you are not God. As much as I may be inclined to agree with you about certain peoples souls being in danger of hell, I'm more concerned with changing that destination by praying, then by telling them about the one way ticket they are holding!
As a fellow christian I am sincerely asking you to please, stop telling people they are going to hell. Please. :sad1:
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talking bad about God isn't an unforgivable sin. blaspheming the holy spirit is...and how you blaspheme the holy spirit is by holding unforgiveness towards others in your heart. and i'm sure that all the people bad mouthing God know that it pisses you off, they know that it angers any person who believes in God and loves Him. they don't care if it pisses you off, but you aren't "making it okay" just because you refrain from telling them they are going to hell. you are not going to make them stop saying the things they say or believe any differently just because you tell them they are going to hell.
Collosians 3
12Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Matthew 5:44 (King James Version)
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
God doesn't love you or me any more-so than he loves the people that don't believe in him.
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"the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God;
the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of..... forgiveness
If a person is rejecting God at this very moment and bad mouthing him...they are still capable of being forgiven.
Therefore, "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" can be understood as a continued and persistently stubborn rejection of the gospel of salvation
What about when they stop rejecting the gospel?? Are you implying that the people in this forum who are rejecting God now, have no hope even when they come to the conclusion that He is real and accept Jesus as savior? That would be wrong!!
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:9-13
There was no exception made in regards to this scripture! EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!
You're entire reference is for UNSAVED people. Unsaved people are till capable of being saved....however, when you reject forgiveness, whether forgiveness of your own sins or forgiving others of theirs you stand unforgivable before God.
Mark 11:25-26 (New International Version)
25And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."[a]
26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins.
Blaspheming the holy spirit is rejecting the very nature of God which is love and forgiveness.
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In conclusion, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible, and it is mentioned in the context of the Pharisees accusing Jesus of being possessed by the Devil. The context indicates that it was a specific sin, and not a series of forgivable sins, or an attitude of persistent unbelief. After the resurrection, no inspired writer mentions the sin, and no warnings against it were recorded. There is no concrete evidence that it can be committed today. The fact that it is not mentioned after the resurrection, lends itself to the idea that it cannot still be committed. In fact, the indication from passages such as 1 John 1:7,9 is that “all unrighteousness” that a person could commit today can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus
Your own post contradicted your whole argument that trash talking God is unforgivable blasphemy!
So keep that in mind when you feel the need to condemn people. They are ALL forgivable, as are you when you blaspheme by judging.
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Say something bad about my mom and see how long it takes before I condemn you.
:P Hmm, your mother really should have taught you some manners and not given up on you after the age of 3, marieelissa. By the way, since you know so much about the bible(sic) - obvious because you know how to copy and paste page after page that has nothing to do with the subject, but takes up lots of space - you should know you have no power to condemn anyone.
I knew you would once again step up your childish attacks on people. Things had been relatively quiet until you just had to get the spotlight back on yourself again because everyone was letting you slide. Even poor Sherene, out of pure goodness, which you know nothing about, is asking you to clean up your act. You are such a sad excuse for a (supposed) child of God, yet are sure you will go to your magical heaven. I'd bet MY life on it that you will not, even if I did think heaven or hell existed. If your behaviour qualifies as good and christian, you'll be dining with murderers, thieves, and every other bad person in your 'afterlife'.
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since you know so much about the bible(sic) - obvious because you know how to copy and paste page after page that has nothing to do with the subject, but takes up lots of space.
I was explaining what blasphemy is...kind of hard to argue with sources that are not in my words...because how can you attack a copy/paste article when you just want to attack me...
No, you were not explaining anything. You once again posted lengthy paste jobs. I am NOT arguing with the words in the sources, I do not care. I am simply pointing out how inept you are when it comes to acting as if you are actually a better person than the rest of us because you throw around quotes and tell us what is going to happen to us. You cannot even take care of yourself. Why not make that your priority? It might be a great idea for you to take the time you spend attacking people on here and put it to better use looking at yourself and your life. I don't have to 'scream' at other people to make myself feel better. I live a good, caring, and productive life. If it turns out there actually is something out there after I take my last breath, I am in no way concerned that I will be in a bad place. Can you say the same? From what I have seen here the last 6 months, I highly doubt it. Quit blaming YOUR actions on everyone else, it doesn't fly.
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Non-believers don't have to be an example of anything because "they don't believe".
Right. Or whatever we want to be examples of. We're free.
you should know you have no power to condemn anyone.
Sure she does! In her own mind. And since we have proof that nothing of it is true, what harm is she really doing? She's just hurting her side of the argument. Especially because she can't argue.
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A staple, John 3:16 For God so loved the work that he gave his only begotton son...
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One of my favorites: 1 Corinthians 2:9 "As it is written, no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined, the glorious things God has prepared for those who love him."
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Here's my favorite one:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized, every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38
Okay..........here goes:
No one here has got the right answer about blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. You have to "have" the witness of the Holy Ghost in order to blaspheme it (if you turn from it). Unforgiveness will surely find you lost. Living in sin until death will surely find you lost. These sins can be repented of and forgiven on earth. Blasphemy cannot.
(Paraphrased) You have to take the whole story in context, where the Lord is talking about this subject, and what prompted Him to do so. In the 12th Chapter of Matthew, starting in the 22nd verse, it talks of Jesus casting a devil out of someone. The religious leaders of that day (Pharisees) claimed that Jesus cast out the devil because He was in league with the devil, and therefore could cast them out. Jesus explained that the devil against the devil would surely fall. In other words satan cannot cast out satan, or his kingdom wouldn't stand.
Then He said, if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the Spirit of God, is come upon you (in other words, God is at work here and not satan). He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathers not with me, scatters abroad. He was making a clear distinction of what power was at work in the casting out.
Then right after this.....Direct quote form the Bible:
Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and BLASPHEMY shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:31-32
If you have been filled with God's Spirit, and tasted the goodness of Him, and witnessed His Shekinah Glory and Power, His marvelous works, seen His manifested power, and talked in the heavenly language, THEN turn away, and call it the devil's work....that is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. There is no forgiveness for that. You cannot witness God at work, then say it is the work of the devil.....that is blasphemy.
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Marieelissa, We as Christians are to love the lost, no matter how angry they may make us. If something is said against the Bible or our Lord......do not retaliate with anger. There is a time and place for rebuke, but not when people are just trying to find out an answer. Name calling on both sides is rude, and does nothing but fuel the fires of rage in others. We are to be wise. Forgiveness and love is expected of us, and to keep the faith. There are those on here that have a good grasp of scripture and can answer some questions, but not to the point of arguing. That never solves anything.
I don't know anybody who is going to hell. I won't know that until judgement. Everybody has the ability to find their Savior on this earth. My wish is that everybody makes it. The Bible tells us not everybody will, but we have no right to point fingers and tell anyone they are going to hell. It's not our call. Don't be vengeful. The Lord will take care of righting the scales in His own time.
My heart hurts for those on here who are actually wanting some true answers. I want them to be saved. There are also those that have flat rejected the Lord and His teachings. Ignore them. We can only pray for them. Not write hateful things to them. The Bible says by their fruits you will know them. Then you know how to act accordingly. Sometimes silence says the most. Here lies wisdom.
I've said this before. You seem young in the Lord, and that's okay. We're all just trying to be perfected in the
Faith. No one has arrived or has all the answers. Your fervent in your faith, and that's a good thing. Just let the Lord do a bit more leading in how you respond. This is not a rebuke dear, just an observation that you may be doing more harm than good. I love you.
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God is a type of person to me. I refer to Him as my heavenly father.....so if you say my Dad was like charles manson then, to me it's the same thing.
If your dad commanded people to murder others, I wouldn't have any much problem making the same comparison.
you said God murdered people.
He did (you accepted this).
And if you really think you understand the context of the OT and still think God is comparable to charles manson then you ARE ignorant. But that is my opinion of course. I'm sure you probably think the same of me.
I understand the context well enough and know the generic Christian excuses for what goes on in that glorious book.
As for the comparison, still has not been invalidated in the least:
Charles Manson commanded others to murder (a given).
God commanded others to murder (again, you accepted this was true).
What's the issue? The only issue I see is one party is constantly excused and the other rots in a jail cell for decades. Bit inconsistent to say the least.
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I don't believe there is any shame in questioning or asking...or even having moments of weakness. I am not a Christian, I'm Jewish, but I do recall that Jesus had a moment of weakness himself. "My lord, my lord, why have you forsaken me?"
Everyone gets upset and says things they shouldn't say. The importance is in accepting the responsibility for your actions. Yes, you believe Jesus died for your sins; however, shouldn't you also try to live the good life...live like Jesus did, and take responsibility. I have no problem with anyone who has said the wrong thing...until they continue on this path no matter how wrong they are, and no matter how wrong they know they are. Jews know how to forgive, too. I, personally, have no issues forgiving...I do not forget, though.
I am not the easiest person to get along with. I have a short temper, and I have a tendency to call people out on their :bs:. I can be offensive and abrasive and sarcastic. I push people to look at their views and question the why behind them. I have a hard time with complacency without thought. I don't have problems with people who have faith. I believe faith is a very personal thing, and that everyone's faith is different. I take issue, though, with someone telling others they are wrong with what they believe and passing judgment on someone they don't even know.
It is important to question things. I believe that g-d is forgiving, and g-d can be kind. I also believe g-d wants me to question things. When Eve ate the apple, she chose knowledge over immortality. To waste that opportunity for knowledge would be wrong.
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Marieelissa, We as Christians are to love the lost, no matter how angry they may make us. If something is said against the Bible or our Lord......do not retaliate with anger. There is a time and place for rebuke, but not when people are just trying to find out an answer. Name calling on both sides is rude, and does nothing but fuel the fires of rage in others. We are to be wise. Forgiveness and love is expected of us, and to keep the faith. There are those on here that have a good grasp of scripture and can answer some questions, but not to the point of arguing. That never solves anything.
I don't know anybody who is going to hell. I won't know that until judgement. Everybody has the ability to find their Savior on this earth. My wish is that everybody makes it. The Bible tells us not everybody will, but we have no right to point fingers and tell anyone they are going to hell. It's not our call. Don't be vengeful. The Lord will take care of righting the scales in His own time.
My heart hurts for those on here who are actually wanting some true answers. I want them to be saved. There are also those that have flat rejected the Lord and His teachings. Ignore them. We can only pray for them. Not write hateful things to them. The Bible says by their fruits you will know them. Then you know how to act accordingly. Sometimes silence says the most. Here lies wisdom.
I've said this before. You seem young in the Lord, and that's okay. We're all just trying to be perfected in the
Faith. No one has arrived or has all the answers. Your fervent in your faith, and that's a good thing. Just let the Lord do a bit more leading in how you respond. This is not a rebuke dear, just an observation that you may be doing more harm than good. I love you.
:heart: :heart: :heart:
That's my girl!
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I think she meant that once you get the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, if you then turn away proclaiming it the work of the devil, that is unforgivable. If these people have never spoken in tongues, it's not possible for them turn away from something they never had.
I'm not in agreement that that is the unforgivable sin but that is my understanding of what Annella was saying. :)
Also I have to give an official apology to hometeachin and liljp. Because I pointed out that they pulled holy scripture to justify what they think about God, and I called them ignorant. Well, quite frankly marie is doing the same thing, as do MANY christians. And the type of God that would condone screaming to people about the fiery depths of hell to which they so deserve spending eternity.....is the same type of God that liljp is claiming is like charles manson.
Quoting scripture without spiritual understanding and using it to serve your own purpose has nothing to do with ignorance. So I'm sorry for saying that.
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Yes.....and no. People that have no idea what the Holy Ghost is can blaspheme on accident, and can be forgiven.
If you read my post shernajwine, there was more there than the possessing the Holy Ghost, and then losing it, turning around and blaspheming (saying it's of the devil). I mentioned also witnessing the healing, moving, transforming, etc. power of God. Then turning around after witnessing and partaking of these wonderful "sitting" in heavenly places". Then turning around and calling it the devils work.....is the unpardonable sin of Blasphemy.
You mentioned "unforgiveness" as the unpardonable sin......not true. Unforgiveness can be taken care of with repentance. We are talking about something that you can never find forgiveness for.......ever. There's a difference.
Shernajwine, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are a new Christian and need to talk to your Pastor before you post something that you don't understand. It can be dangerous, and can upset people tremendously.
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:sad1: You have to "have" the witness of the Holy Ghost in order to blaspheme it (if you turn from it).
The Scribes & Pharisees didn't "have" the witness of the Holy Ghost, yet when they started saying Jesus' was doing his works using satan's power the whole issue of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and unpardonable sin" came up. The scribes and Pharisees weren't "tongue speakers"...the Pharisees had a hard time accepting Jesus as the Messiah, why would they have spoken in tongues? The first people to speak "in tongues" were the disciples on the Day of Pentecost, an event happened which happened way AFTER the mentioning of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and the unpardonable sin" to the scribes & Pharisees, an event which happened AFTER the resurrection.
Your right, but if you read my posts, that was only one instance. I listed many. If you know that the power of God is real, be it tongues, healings, miracles, then turn around and say it's of the devil (after you have partaken of the gift or seen it's undeniable proof), then your swimming in the pool of blasphemy.
Jesus was teaching his followers and those around him about how serious it was to call the works of God the works of the devil. He also knew that the Holy Ghost would be poured out after he arose, and the Word of God is written for us in our time also. If the Holy Ghost inhabits your temple, it's the same Holy Ghost that was Jesus before He was poured out in the form of His Spirit (the comforter). The same yesterday, today, and forever.
We hear people take the name of God in vain all the time. There are all types of blasphemy, but they can be repented of, and forgiven. Any sin we do on earth, can be forgiven through repentance. This particular sin of calling the works of God the works of the devil, when you KNOW better, and have EXPERIENCED it for yourself......then that's unpardonable.
Here's a good example: Jesus healed me of my COPD about 4 years ago at a big conference. I asked Him to and He did. No one was laying hands on me or anything. I felt the power of God go through my body. I knew it was God. If I turned away later, and told people that it was the work of the devil.....that's unpardonable! (scares me even to write that...lol)
Good point though.......you made me think, and delve a bit further.
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"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
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"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
Amen! A good one!!
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Someone out there thinks they have committed the unpardonable sin.....you haven't. During prayer today, I felt to write this. Hope it helps somebody.
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Shernajwine, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are a new Christian and need to talk to your Pastor before you post something that you don't understand. It can be dangerous, and can upset people tremendously.
My pastor is actually the one that taught me this. Unforgiveness is forgivable when you forgive. You can't ask God for forgiveness until you have forgiven others. God WILL NOT forgive you until you have yourself forgiven others, that's in the scriptures. Therefore, unforgiveness is unforgivable. No it's not a permanent condition. Now my pastor says it alot more eloquently than I do but that's the bare knuckles of it. I posted on another thread....I'm not a new christian.
Annella, I appreciate the wisdom you bring to the forum and I also appreciate the patience you have shown marie, where I have not....but I'm not so appreciative that you assume I'm "new" simply because I said something you disagree with. I'm not a theologian and there is certainly PLENTY that I don't know, but I'm off spiritual milk and have been for quite some time. I feel a little patronized here.... I said something you disagree with and you send me off to a higher authority (my pastor) with a pat on the head and an admonition to watch my mouth and do not speak of things to which I have no knowledge. It's not an insult to be a baby in the Lord but it's an insult when you assume I am just because you disagree with me.
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Shernajwine, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are a new Christian and need to talk to your Pastor before you post something that you don't understand. It can be dangerous, and can upset people tremendously.
My pastor is actually the one that taught me this. Unforgiveness is forgivable when you forgive. You can't ask God for forgiveness until you have forgiven others. God WILL NOT forgive you until you have yourself forgiven others, that's in the scriptures. Therefore, unforgiveness is unforgivable. No it's not a permanent condition. Now my pastor says it alot more eloquently than I do but that's the bare knuckles of it. I posted on another thread....I'm not a new christian.
Annella, I appreciate the wisdom you bring to the forum and I also appreciate the patience you have shown marie, where I have not....but I'm not so appreciative that you assume I'm "new" simply because I said something you disagree with. I'm not a theologian and there is certainly PLENTY that I don't know, but I'm off spiritual milk and have been for quite some time. I feel a little patronized here.... I said something you disagree with and you send me off to a higher authority (my pastor) with a pat on the head and an admonition to watch my mouth and do not speak of things to which I have no knowledge. It's not an insult to be a baby in the Lord but it's an insult when you assume I am just because you disagree with me.
Sorry, but I had no intention of being patronizing. I'm going back to the post you made last month about just starting a Oneness church. You said that you had questions about the Oneness. You also made mention that the atheistic view made sense to you, so you studied it out. I took it that you were new, and not Spirit filled yet and still looking for answers? If I'm wrong.....I apologize
Your more than welcome to disagree. What I should have said was, study it out for yourself. Take your Pastor's teaching, and your understanding, my teaching, and the Bible, and get your own answers. You do study things out...which is good. When you look into the subject of the unpardonable sin, you have to go to the Bible where Jesus is talking about it, and study it (Matthew 12 starting with the 22nd verse). Your more than welcome to print out these posts and show them to your Pastor.
You are correct in a sense...unforgiveness is based on forgiving others as we want to be forgiven, but it's not the unpardonable sin of blasphemy which cannot be forgiven, in this life or the next. Now we can all be lost for holding onto unforgiveness, pride, hatred, malice, etc. However, those all have a chance of being repented of and being forgiven by God. They are not the unpardonable (no forgiveness at all) sin of blasphemy. Maybe what your Pastor taught is that the unforgiveness can lead to blasphemy. There is blasphemy in the Bible that can be forgiven, but this unpardonable blasphemy is a sin unto itself.
I'm very careful of this because I've dealt with many people in counseling where the enemy has made them to believe they had committed this sin. It wrecks them. Then they're scared to tell anyone, because of being an outcast, etc. etc. It can snowball into an irrational fear. Sin is sin to God (lying, cheating, stealing, murder, etc.), but the Lord made sure he broke the unpardonable sin out, to let us know there is NO forgiveness for IT.
We just can't take a sin out and call it unpardonable. Unforgiveness is no more the number 1 sin than say murder. Sin is sin. I think I know what you Pastor is getting at though. Unforgiveness can lead to not being forgiven. Undersood, and that is Bible. However, it's not unpardonable, it can be reversed. The unpardonable sin can NEVER be reversed. There's a difference.
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Unforgiveness is no more the number 1 sin than say murder. Sin is sin. I think I know what you Pastor is getting at though. Unforgiveness can lead to not being forgiven. Undersood, and that is Bible. However, it's not unpardonable, it can be reversed. The unpardonable sin can NEVER be reversed. There's a difference.
I agree with you, we were apparently misunderstanding each other.
I have attended my church for 4 years now and my Oneness questions came up because of a member of my church being upset that I used the word Trinity. They wouldn't explain why it upset them so I set out to search for myself....my pastor comes from an apostolic background (although my church is non denominational) so when searching the web for apostolic doctrine i found the term Oneness...I had never heard it before and I have been at my church for 4 years! I needed a deeper understanding of the difference.
The atheistic view made sense because it asks legitimate questions....questions to which I did not have answers. So, regardless of how much I felt I was not wrong in my belief in God, I'm interested in truth. So I set out to find answers. My answers led me to a stronger faith and deeper knowledge about God and His character. :)
Thank you for having patience with me as well. ;)
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Unforgiveness is no more the number 1 sin than say murder. Sin is sin. I think I know what you Pastor is getting at though. Unforgiveness can lead to not being forgiven. Undersood, and that is Bible. However, it's not unpardonable, it can be reversed. The unpardonable sin can NEVER be reversed. There's a difference.
I agree with you, we were apparently misunderstanding each other.
I have attended my church for 4 years now and my Oneness questions came up because of a member of my church being upset that I used the word Trinity. They wouldn't explain why it upset them so I set out to search for myself....my pastor comes from an apostolic background (although my church is non denominational) so when searching the web for apostolic doctrine i found the term Oneness...I had never heard it before and I have been at my church for 4 years! I needed a deeper understanding of the difference.
The atheistic view made sense because it asks legitimate questions....questions to which I did not have answers. So, regardless of how much I felt I was not wrong in my belief in God, I'm interested in truth. So I set out to find answers. My answers led me to a stronger faith and deeper knowledge about God and His character. :)
Thank you for having patience with me as well. ;)
Okay, now I understand a bit more. Your a smart girl, and you study. I was raised trinity until my teens. I studied it out myself because trinity was all I knew. After studying it, I changed to a Oneness church myself over 30 years ago.
This forum is good in a way that it makes us think, and delve into the Word to get answers.....and there's nothing wrong with that. Take care and God bless sister.
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:cat: Great listening and compromising between sherna and annella - that's not always easy to do, even as Christians, is it? I like what you both are saying.
My favorite:
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord and depart from evil. It will be health to thy navel and marrow to thy bones." (Proverbs 3:5-8) These verses have really helped me to grow in the Lord and to watch myself and my attitude. I've still a long, long way to go, though.
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:cat: Great listening and compromising between sherna and annella - that's not always easy to do, even as Christians, is it? I like what you both are saying.
My favorite:
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord and depart from evil. It will be health to thy navel and marrow to thy bones." (Proverbs 3:5-8) These verses have really helped me to grow in the Lord and to watch myself and my attitude. I've still a long, long way to go, though.
Absolutely my favorite also! I'd forgotten about that one.
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:cat: Great listening and compromising between sherna and annella - that's not always easy to do, even as Christians, is it? I like what you both are saying.
My favorite:
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord and depart from evil. It will be health to thy navel and marrow to thy bones." (Proverbs 3:5-8) These verses have really helped me to grow in the Lord and to watch myself and my attitude. I've still a long, long way to go, though.
I needed that, thank you very much :)
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Satan is all over this forum....In the name of Jesus, I rebuke you Satan.... :sad1:
Yes I agree. I am a neebie to the forum and just crusin trying to get used to how everything works. Though others may use the Bible inappropriately, we can use this forum as a vessel to show the light that dwells on the inside of those of us that believe. Jesus came to save the sick and the lost. His desire is that not one of His sheep should perish. Our job as believers is to occupy until He comes.
How long have you been a part of the forum? How do you go about getting referrals? Are there any tips you can share with a newbie? Thanks for your time.
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Scriptures I came across today that I think are relevant to the frustrations that have been going back and forth on the forum regarding religion. A good scripture that references where our atheist friends at.
Ephesians 4:17-19 NIV (I added parentheses)
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you much no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in the understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity (to spiritual things), they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more
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I didn't read every post but did we get the greatest commandment in here?
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these. Mark 12:30+31
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I didn't read every post but did we get the greatest commandment in here?
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these. Mark 12:30+31
Oh , that's the one that's really good, and brings it all together. Everything hinges on these 2 commandments actually.
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Scriptures I came across today that I think are relevant to the frustrations that have been going back and forth on the forum regarding religion. A good scripture that references where our atheist friends at.
Ephesians 4:17-19 NIV (I added parentheses)
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you much no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in the understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity (to spiritual things), they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more
"Whoa", good post shernajwine.!
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Satan is all over this forum....In the name of Jesus, I rebuke you Satan.... :sad1:
Yes I agree. I am a neebie to the forum and just crusin trying to get used to how everything works. Though others may use the Bible inappropriately, we can use this forum as a vessel to show the light that dwells on the inside of those of us that believe. Jesus came to save the sick and the lost. His desire is that not one of His sheep should perish. Our job as believers is to occupy until He comes.
How long have you been a part of the forum? How do you go about getting referrals? Are there any tips you can share with a newbie? Thanks for your time.
HI, and welcome to Fusion Cash. We were all newbies at one time and I'm really not that old. There is a wealth of information on the home page if you play the tutorials. OldBuddy (who is still on here), explains the ins and outs of navigating around here. They pretty much cover everything from beginning to cashing out and how to go about it.
Also, under the "Support" section of the forum here, there's "FLOREZITTA'S BEGINNERS GUIDE TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS". I've gotten good information there, and she provides email addresses to where you need to go to actually put things into play.
Good luck, and almost everybody here is helpful. We want you to succeed and stick around. My advice is to work at this everyday until you get familiar with it, then it will just be second nature. The forums have a lot of advice from members what offers are good, etc. :wave:
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Scriptures I came across today that I think are relevant to the frustrations that have been going back and forth on the forum regarding religion. A good scripture that references where our atheist friends at.
Ephesians 4:17-19 NIV (I added parentheses)
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you much no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in the understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity (to spiritual things), they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more
Here's one for all our atheist friends.........
"I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
— Albert Camus
Just remember.....we are ALL going to face Him one day and give an account of our lives!!! I believe that day is coming VERY soon!!
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Scriptures I came across today that I think are relevant to the frustrations that have been going back and forth on the forum regarding religion. A good scripture that references where our atheist friends at.
Ephesians 4:17-19 NIV (I added parentheses)
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you much no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in the understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity (to spiritual things), they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more
Here's one for all our atheist friends.........
"I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
— Albert Camus
Just remember.....we are ALL going to face Him one day and give an account of our lives!!! I believe that day is coming VERY soon!!
Yes it is........
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Well, you don't have to fear hell if you don't believe such a silly place exists. :angel12:
Yesssss, there is intelligent life on this planet! Please save the world & pass on your genes!!!!
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Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version)
18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Definitely one of my favorites...
This sure doesn't encourage me to join the faith. Talk about the DARK SIDE OF THE BIBLE!
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"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB
The context of Psalm 137 is the Babylonian captivity. The Psalmist speaks of the captors tormenting the people of God. The Psalmist is in exile and had probably witnessed the atrocities committed against his people, babies included. In the revenge-style that was so common at the time, he wishes the same upon his enemy as a description of their utter destruction. Nowhere does it say that God approves of the Psalmist’s request or that he fulfilled it. Just because it is recorded that the Psalmist wrote the imprecation, doesn’t mean it was approved by God.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version)
In the Old Testament God appears harsh for three reasons. First, it was to demonstrate the exacting requirements of the Law, a perfect and demanding standard. Second, it ultimately demonstrates the need for grace that would eventually be manifested on the cross. Third, should rebellion take root the very heart of the gospel would be at risk since the prophecies of the Messiah coming to and through Israel could be undermined should rebellion become rampant and society fall apart causing the prophecies to fail. Therefore, we can conclude that this harsh requirement was a necessary legality to instill and designate the necessity of family order and respect and to ultimately provide another safeguard that would ensure the sacrifice of Christ.
If you bothered to research the meaning of the scriptures and not just take it out of context to mock it, you wouldn't appear as ignorant.
Looks like the laws of tyranny to me. I suggest you dump the king james version, it's too corrupted. This is my translation of g-d it's laws... g-d=cat=mouse=cat playing/tormenting mouse=injured mouse=dead mouse.
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The biggie for Jews:
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad
Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our G-d, Adonai is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
and one of my personal favs, from Exodus, when Moses parted the Red Sea:
Mi chamocha, ba'elim, Adonai? Mi kamocha, nedar bakodesh, nora tehilot, osei feleh? Shira chadasha shib'chu ge'ulim le'shimcha al s'fat hayam; Yachad kulam hodu ve'himlichu ve'amru: "Adonai yimloch le'olam va'ed."
Who is like you, Adonai, among other gods? Who is like you, glorious in holiness, awesome in praises, doing miracles? With a new song, the ones You rescued praised Your name at the sea shore. All of them in unison gave thanks and praised Your rule, and said: "Adonai will reign for ever and ever."
What strikes me the most about these two prayers, though, is that they never mention G-d being the only god...but that G-d is the only one we should worship. Check out the Ten Commandments...Thou shalt not have any other gods before me...
I recall, g-d stating, I am a JEALOUS g-d.... thou shalt not have any other gods b/for me.... Isn't that a HUMAN FLAWED TRAIT?
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I recall, g-d stating, I am a JEALOUS g-d.... thou shalt not have any other gods b/for me.... Isn't that a HUMAN FLAWED TRAIT?
I tend to agree with you there. I can't help but wonder just how flawed g-d is...we're made in g-d's image, and if you take a good hard look at the world and the bad things that happen...you have to wonder why a kind and loving figure would allow those things to happen. The g-d I believe in is far from perfect. I've had numerous discussions with my Rabbi on the topic, and his words were along the lines of if g-d plays an active role in the world and is supposedly perfect, then g-d has a lot of explaining to do. When our parents do and say things that we don't understand and seem unfair, we expect an explanation. Why wouldn't we expect the same from the ultimate parental figure?
If you take a look at other religions...especially looking at the ancient Greek and Roman gods, they were all imperfect and specialized. Makes more sense logically than one being that is all powerful and perfect. If you take a look at those you seek guidance from in life...the heroes and assorted others we look up to, none are perfect. Makes it easier to swallow what they say. For example...if I were to go to someone at work and ask for advice, I'd rather seek out someone who has gone through and made the same mistakes I have than someone who has no personal experience and performed everything to perfection. Figures who are perfect often annoy us, and we tend to rebel from what they say. I prefer believing that g-d has made mistakes (as evidenced in the Tanakh (or Old Testament)) than believing that the g-d who said and did these offensive things knew exactly what they were doing/saying and did so in perfection.
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The doctrine that God is a jealous God comes from the Old Testament books of the law of Moses. The "jealousy" is always in the context of idol worship, beginning in the Ten Commandments of Exodus 20.
(Exodus 20:5)(Exodus 34:14)(Deuteronomy 4:24)(Deuteronomy 5:9)(Deuteronomy 6:15)
What these five verses have in common is that they all share the same Hebrew adjective, qannâ' qanna (Strong's H7067) (Strong's H7067),5 translated with the English word "jealous." The interesting thing about this word is that it is only used in reference to God. In no instance is the word qannâ' used to describe human jealousy. The reason that God is "jealous" is because He wants people to choose to love Him.6 Jesus said that the most important commandment was to love God.7 God does not want us to waste out time worshipping pretend gods that do not exist.8
Jealousy is often thought of as being a negative trait. So, many people think that the Bible's description of God as jealous means that He must be a divine hypocrite. However, this page has shown that in the original languages in which the Bible is written, the words do not have those negative definitions. Since the word used to describe the jealousy of God is not even the same word used to describe human jealousy, it is clear that the apparent contradiction is just a result of an inability of the translated language (English) to accurately reflect the original language (Hebrew). There is no slight on the character of God in the original language.
These are just portions of statements made on the website I linked to. God is not flawed, He is absolutely perfect.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/jealous_god.html
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The doctrine that God is a jealous God comes from the Old Testament books of the law of Moses. The "jealousy" is always in the context of idol worship, beginning in the Ten Commandments of Exodus 20.
(Exodus 20:5)(Exodus 34:14)(Deuteronomy 4:24)(Deuteronomy 5:9)(Deuteronomy 6:15)
What these five verses have in common is that they all share the same Hebrew adjective, qannâ' qanna (Strong's H7067) (Strong's H7067),5 translated with the English word "jealous." The interesting thing about this word is that it is only used in reference to God. In no instance is the word qannâ' used to describe human jealousy. The reason that God is "jealous" is because He wants people to choose to love Him.6 Jesus said that the most important commandment was to love God.7 God does not want us to waste out time worshipping pretend gods that do not exist.8
Jealousy is often thought of as being a negative trait. So, many people think that the Bible's description of God as jealous means that He must be a divine hypocrite. However, this page has shown that in the original languages in which the Bible is written, the words do not have those negative definitions. Since the word used to describe the jealousy of God is not even the same word used to describe human jealousy, it is clear that the apparent contradiction is just a result of an inability of the translated language (English) to accurately reflect the original language (Hebrew). There is no slight on the character of God in the original language.
These are just portions of statements made on the website I linked to. God is not flawed, He is absolutely perfect.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/jealous_god.html
Absolutely perfect explanation and interpretation!
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The biggie for Jews:
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad
Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our G-d, Adonai is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
and one of my personal favs, from Exodus, when Moses parted the Red Sea:
Mi chamocha, ba'elim, Adonai? Mi kamocha, nedar bakodesh, nora tehilot, osei feleh? Shira chadasha shib'chu ge'ulim le'shimcha al s'fat hayam; Yachad kulam hodu ve'himlichu ve'amru: "Adonai yimloch le'olam va'ed."
Who is like you, Adonai, among other gods? Who is like you, glorious in holiness, awesome in praises, doing miracles? With a new song, the ones You rescued praised Your name at the sea shore. All of them in unison gave thanks and praised Your rule, and said: "Adonai will reign for ever and ever."
What strikes me the most about these two prayers, though, is that they never mention G-d being the only god...but that G-d is the only one we should worship. Check out the Ten Commandments...Thou shalt not have any other gods before me...
I recall, g-d stating, I am a JEALOUS g-d.... thou shalt not have any other gods b/for me.... Isn't that a HUMAN FLAWED TRAIT?
I also believe Deuteronomy 6:4 as there being only one God. You seem to be against much of what is written (positively) about God, but your extremely careful to spell God as G-d, which is a sign of upmost respect among the Jews. The title of God is not to be used lightly and should remain forever, and since this forum or any other posting can be deleted you denote God's name with G-d. This is not a slam of you doing this, just an observation. While I respect that aspect of your posting (highly respect it), I don't understand why your belittling His attributes as being flawed.
If you have such reverence with typing the Name of God as G-d, why do you have such negative things to say about Him? You quote one God scriptures which implies the teaching of the One God doctrine, but belittle His traits and character.......I don't understand. I have a lot of Jewish friends, but none are conflicted in their belief like this.
I'm not trying to say anything negative here about you, just puzzled.
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I'm not conflicted in my belief: I am realistic.
Atheists claim there is an issue with g-d being perfect. I agree. If you walk into a room with four Jews, you have five different Judaisms. Judaism may not be branched off the way Christianity is, but as a people we have varying beliefs. Many Jews are not even religious.
By claiming that g-d is imperfect, I am not belittling g-d's character. I love g-d, flaws and all.
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.......I don't understand. I have a lot of Jewish friends, but none are conflicted in their belief like this.
I'm not trying to say anything negative here about you, just puzzled.
I posted my reply about my supposedly being conflicted and belittling g-d. The more I thought about it, though, the more this statement above bothered me. You have a lot of Jewish friends, but I'm different than them, so you're puzzled? Don't you realize how offensive that sounds? That is the religious equivalent of "I'm not racist; I have black friends, and none of them are drug dealers." :angry7:
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.......I don't understand. I have a lot of Jewish friends, but none are conflicted in their belief like this.
I'm not trying to say anything negative here about you, just puzzled.
I posted my reply about my supposedly being conflicted and belittling g-d. The more I thought about it, though, the more this statement above bothered me. You have a lot of Jewish friends, but I'm different than them, so you're puzzled? Don't you realize how offensive that sounds? That is the religious equivalent of "I'm not racist; I have black friends, and none of them are drug dealers." :angry7:
Okay, I obviously offended you through ignorance. Was not my intention at all. I lived in Israel for about 3 months around Passover. I was astounded how much Jews "lived" their belief. I was ashamed of the fact that we as professing Christians are put to shame by the Jews outward fervency to serve God. I would spend hours down at the wailing wall and watch their dedication in their prayers. Some went 3 times a day. I've been to the institute of studies, and saw how important the Torah was to them, and the reverence they took concerning it. Everything about their life is centered around Adonai. It touched me deeply, and put me to shame.
A friend of mine explained why Jews write God as G-d. It's a sign of the highest respect and adoration, and that the word God should remain forever. A Rabbi invited me for Passover, and I'll never forget it. It lasted for hours, but seemed such a short time for me. It was most revealing to me. I can understand why God calls the Jews His chosen people. The Land of Israel is blessed because of the dedication and foundation to commit all things to Adonai.
I'm so sorry, I was trying to understand some things and made a mess of it......sigh, I seem to be making more apology's lately. No more questions. I simply asked the wrong person.
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I'm not conflicted in my belief: I am realistic.
Atheists claim there is an issue with g-d being perfect. I agree. If you walk into a room with four Jews, you have five different Judaisms. Judaism may not be branched off the way Christianity is, but as a people we have varying beliefs. Many Jews are not even religious.
By claiming that g-d is imperfect, I am not belittling g-d's character. I love g-d, flaws and all.
Actually I was addressing trantrica44, but that's okay....lol Yes, I know many Jews are not religious. the questions I'm asking are interest, nothing more. So how I understand it, is that you all believe the Old Testament (Torah), but there are differences in interpretation of portions of The Law, handed down to Moses, and the Hebrew children in the desert? I know there are different beliefs among the different "sects" concerning dietary laws, dress, etc. Could this be because you all were scattered all over the world, and are now gathering back to Israel? However, you all believe in the study of the Torah as a whole....right?
Sorry, if I'm asking to much, but I'm honestly interested. You all believe in the Sabbath, Passover, ect......right? So the difference is broken down of those beliefs of the Old Testament Law, and how it's interpreted? So that's how the different Judaism's come from? When I was in Israel, I saw some men have those "furry" hats. I asked about those, and was told that they were worn because of some 3rd country ruler who made the Jews wear them for a sick joke, to poke fun at them. Now........it has become a symbol of pride and recognition for that particular sect of Jews.
Everything about your race interests me. I'm going to be studying the Old Testament from a Rabbi myself, and looking forward to it. In order to really understand what is written, I have to understand the times and customs of the day, and the time which they lived, which is just barely touching what can be revealed.
I am actually a convert, and am young in my religion. ;)
I can tell you what I believe, but I promise it won't be universal. Basically, though, in order to really understand the times and customs of the day, you'd need a good background in Hebrew, and even then things are conflicting, since the Torah was written without vowels. The Torah is actually just the first five books of the OT, and, in its entirety, we call it the Tanakh. We also study rabbinic writings; many modern Rabbis quote Moses Maimonides quite a bit as he is one of the most popular when it comes to study.
The major holidays are Shabbat, Pesach, Rosh Hashana, and Yom Kippur. Many Jews will only attend temple on the High Holy days (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur), and others celebrate all the holidays. Interesting fact, though, is that Hanukkah is not a major holiday; it is not even in the Tanakh. It is actually in the Book of Maccabees and was instituted as a result of the religious tolerance movement in making sure that all religions are celebrated during the Christmas holiday season. The most important thing to remember, though about all Jewish holidays is these seven all-encompassing words: they attacked us, we won, let's eat.
When it comes to language, something I've been noticing on the boards are the misuses of g-d's name. Hashem is not g-d's name; it is actually translated to The Name. G-d's name is actually referred to as tetragrammaton, meaning literally "four letters", the Hebrew letters Yod Hey Vav Hey. It is often translated as "to be" or "I am." There are no vowels, and there is no pronunciation...I repeat...No pronunciation for this. The pronunciation was lost during the destruction of the temple. The tetragrammaton is not translated as Yehovah, or Jehovah...that word was created by taking the vowels from the word "Adonai" meaning my ruler and placing those vowels on the tetragrammaton. There are, if I am remembering the number correctly, 72 names for g-d. This makes it difficult, IMO, to take g-d's name in vain, since we actually do not know g-d's name, other than to call g-d "I am." This opens up quite a bit of interpretation of that commandment, IMO. A good, thorough, study of the commandments, though, would take quite some time, considering there are actually 613 of them, using the big 10 as a sort of table of contents.
In parting, a story I think you may find interesting...and it is actually one of my favorites. My favorite quote (Mi Chamocha) actually has an amazing story to it. The quotation was made as the Israelites were standing at the Red Sea and Moses was asking g-d for help. The story goes that they stood on the shore of the sea and cried out Mi Chamocha! and took a step into the waters. After they took the first step they began walking forward, crying out ba'elim Adonai? By the time they cried out again Mi Kamocha, they were head deep in the waters and had begun to choke (the translation in English for Mi Chamocha and Mi Kamocha are both the same who is like you?, yet this explains the difference in spelling and pronunciation). As they were choking yet still praying, the waters parted, and they were able to cross to their freedom. The moral, to me, of this story, is that you have to take yourself as far as you possibly can before asking for help. Therein lies my belief in self-reliance and responsibility for ones actions. There is no shame in asking for help when its needed, but one should not expect a hand-out.
I hope this helps those who don't understand or would like to know more about Judaism. I am by no means here to convert, but I am more than willing to discuss any aspect of my religion with those that wish to civilly. Shalom.
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Okay, I obviously offended you through ignorance. Was not my intention at all. I lived in Israel for about 3 months around Passover. I was astounded how much Jews "lived" their belief. I was ashamed of the fact that we as professing Christians are put to shame by the Jews outward fervency to serve God. I would spend hours down at the wailing wall and watch their dedication in their prayers. Some went 3 times a day. I've been to the institute of studies, and saw how important the Torah was to them, and the reverence they took concerning it. Everything about their life is centered around Adonai. It touched me deeply, and put me to shame.
A friend of mine explained why Jews write God as G-d. It's a sign of the highest respect and adoration, and that the word God should remain forever. A Rabbi invited me for Passover, and I'll never forget it. It lasted for hours, but seemed such a short time for me. It was most revealing to me. I can understand why God calls the Jews His chosen people. The Land of Israel is blessed because of the dedication and foundation to commit all things to Adonai.
I'm so sorry, I was trying to understand some things and made a mess of it......sigh, I seem to be making more apology's lately. No more questions. I simply asked the wrong person.
No, you didn't ask the wrong person. I am very open and more than willing to share what I know and believe. It just stung the way you stated your response...and it wasn't very clear. It seemed like you were saying I was belittling g-d and was conflicted in my belief, and then you proceeded to compare me to other Jews you know...not Kosher, dudette. ;)
Religion is a very personal and very touchy subject. I don't confine myself by a narrow definition; my daughter has pictures taken with Santa, would be allowed to attend any religious service with any member of our family, and will be Bat Mitzvahed. When she has reached the age where she can make her own educated decisions, she will be free to do so, even if that choice should be atheism.
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.......I don't understand. I have a lot of Jewish friends, but none are conflicted in their belief like this.
I'm not trying to say anything negative here about you, just puzzled.
I posted my reply about my supposedly being conflicted and belittling g-d. The more I thought about it, though, the more this statement above bothered me. You have a lot of Jewish friends, but I'm different than them, so you're puzzled? Don't you realize how offensive that sounds? That is the religious equivalent of "I'm not racist; I have black friends, and none of them are drug dealers." :angry7:
In reading your response, Annella, I probably replied too harshly. For this, I apologize. Intention can be hard to interpret through this medium, and I don't want you to think you cannot ask me about something when you are genuinely interested.
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.......I don't understand. I have a lot of Jewish friends, but none are conflicted in their belief like this.
I'm not trying to say anything negative here about you, just puzzled.
I posted my reply about my supposedly being conflicted and belittling g-d. The more I thought about it, though, the more this statement above bothered me. You have a lot of Jewish friends, but I'm different than them, so you're puzzled? Don't you realize how offensive that sounds? That is the religious equivalent of "I'm not racist; I have black friends, and none of them are drug dealers." :angry7:
In reading your response, Annella, I probably replied too harshly. For this, I apologize. Intention can be hard to interpret through this medium, and I don't want you to think you cannot ask me about something when you are genuinely interested.
That's okay, I'm genuinely interested. I think I'm Jewish, but I never knew my mother, and my father died when I was 11. All my family is dead. I did find out my mother was British, or so it says on her birth certificate.
A friend and I are learning Hebrew. He's better than I, a fact he never lets me forget....sigh Since I'm in the ministry, I find it interesting your heritage and how rich it is. I'll be taking a sabbatical to Israel in the next year or so to stay for 4-6 months for study. The last time I could only stay for 3 months, as it's very expensive to live there. While I was there, they were excavating some very interesting finds.
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The doctrine that God is a jealous God comes from the Old Testament books of the law of Moses. The "jealousy" is always in the context of idol worship, beginning in the Ten Commandments of Exodus 20.
(Exodus 20:5)(Exodus 34:14)(Deuteronomy 4:24)(Deuteronomy 5:9)(Deuteronomy 6:15)
What these five verses have in common is that they all share the same Hebrew adjective, qannâ' qanna (Strong's H7067) (Strong's H7067),5 translated with the English word "jealous." The interesting thing about this word is that it is only used in reference to God. In no instance is the word qannâ' used to describe human jealousy. The reason that God is "jealous" is because He wants people to choose to love Him.6 Jesus said that the most important commandment was to love God.7 God does not want us to waste out time worshipping pretend gods that do not exist.8
Jealousy is often thought of as being a negative trait. So, many people think that the Bible's description of God as jealous means that He must be a divine hypocrite. However, this page has shown that in the original languages in which the Bible is written, the words do not have those negative definitions. Since the word used to describe the jealousy of God is not even the same word used to describe human jealousy, it is clear that the apparent contradiction is just a result of an inability of the translated language (English) to accurately reflect the original language (Hebrew). There is no slight on the character of God in the original language.
These are just portions of statements made on the website I linked to. God is not flawed, He is absolutely perfect.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/jealous_god.html
The difference between being jealous of someone and being jealous for someone as explained by Beth Moore in her book "A Heart Like His":
"A very big difference exists between being jealous of someone and being jealous for someone. Jealousy of someone is a selfish desire for what that person has. Envy motivates such jealousy. Jealousy for someone is a selfless desire for that person to have and be the best. Love motivates selfless jealousy. God is jealous on our behalf. His is jealous for us to know the One True God. He is jealous for us to be in a posture of blessing. He is jealous for us to be kept from the evil one. He is jealous for us to be ready for our Bridegroom. Jealousy for someone's best is of God. Jealousy of someone's best is of the enemy."
One of the definitions in the dictionary of "jealous" (jealousy) is "taking watchful care" (other words: careful, mindful, protective, vigilant, watchful).
This is the kind of jealousy that God has for us because He loves us. The other kind of jealousy is a human trait, which makes us flawed, NOT God.
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This is the kind of jealousy that God has for us because He loves us. The other kind of jealousy is a human trait, which makes us flawed, NOT God.
Good explanation! :D
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Well, you don't have to fear hell if you don't believe such a silly place exists. :angel12:
Yesssss, there is intelligent life on this planet! Please save the world & pass on your genes!!!!
The world cannot be saved...you need to spend more time figuring out how to find another planet to live on because Earth is doomed! :thumbsup:
Yes, it is doomed if these religious fanatics continue to pass on their stupid genes on to the innocent children! Once they start hearing & learning about the endless ranting & ravings about certain people going to hell because they don't believe in your g-d. Then those children 's souls will truly be damned. Please save the children leave them out of the religion & let them chose for themselves what they want when they grow up. :peace:
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Non-believers don't have to be an example of anything because "they don't believe".
Right. Or whatever we want to be examples of. We're free.
you should know you have no power to condemn anyone.
Sure she does! In her own mind. And since we have proof that nothing of it is true, what harm is she really doing? She's just hurting her side of the argument. Especially because she can't argue.
Falconer why r you wasting your brain cells on these brainless/mindless ones? I'm soooooo tired of the raving & ranting with all this energy they waste; it could power 10000 cities! The power shortage would be solved!! Lighting up the mood; I found a funny poem,author unknown: There R 2 things that you have 2 worry about in life. Either you stay healthy or you get sick. If your healthy there's nothing to worry about but if u get sick, there R 2 things 2 worry about; either u get well or you die. There R 2 things 2 worry about if you die. Either u go to hell or u go to heaven. If you go 2 heaven there's nothing to worry about. If you go 2 hell..................you'll be soooooo busy greeting Old Friends YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO WORRY!!!;)
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Non-believers don't have to be an example of anything because "they don't believe".
Right. Or whatever we want to be examples of. We're free.
you should know you have no power to condemn anyone.
Sure she does! In her own mind. And since we have proof that nothing of it is true, what harm is she really doing? She's just hurting her side of the argument. Especially because she can't argue.
Falconer why r you wasting your brain cells on these brainless/mindless ones? I'm soooooo tired of the raving & ranting with all this energy they waste; it could power 10000 cities! The power shortage would be solved!! Lighting up the mood; I found a funny poem,author unknown: There R 2 things that you have 2 worry about in life. Either you stay healthy or you get sick. If your healthy there's nothing to worry about but if u get sick, there R 2 things 2 worry about; either u get well or you die. There R 2 things 2 worry about if you die. Either u go to hell or u go to heaven. If you go 2 heaven there's nothing to worry about. If you go 2 hell..................you'll be soooooo busy greeting Old Friends YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO WORRY!!!;)
Uh, Falconer02's last comment was back on page 4 (August 11th), this is page 9 or 10 (August 16th). Obviously he left a long time ago. Your a bit behind for sarcasm. :wave:
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My Favorite verse is Genesis 1:1
"In the Begining,"
Its the only portion of a verse I know, but what a great way to start a story book.
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Well my favorite verse is
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phillippians 4:13
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Obviously he left a long time ago. Your a bit behind for sarcasm.
Nope.
Falconer why r you wasting your brain cells on these brainless/mindless ones? I'm soooooo tired of the raving & ranting with all this energy they waste; it could power 10000 cities! The power shortage would be solved!! Lighting up the mood; I found a funny poem,author unknown: There R 2 things that you have 2 worry about in life. Either you stay healthy or you get sick. If your healthy there's nothing to worry about but if u get sick, there R 2 things 2 worry about; either u get well or you die. There R 2 things 2 worry about if you die. Either u go to hell or u go to heaven. If you go 2 heaven there's nothing to worry about. If you go 2 hell..................you'll be soooooo busy greeting Old Friends YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO WORRY!!!;)
Hahahah I love it. Thanks. The reason I'm posting is to just hear others opinions to see if there's anything unique to them; anything I haven't heard a million times before. I might learn something new here and there. Granted we have a ton of christian fanatics/zealots/retards with nothing to post but their close-minded, biased, convenient philosophy junk...it's really good to see the free thinkers who can see passed the obvious bullshit. I've met some cool and intelligent people in this forum (queen, jordan, walksalone, liljp, tmz, EDIT: AMYROUSE! Sherna, you) so it's good to know that this forum isn't constantly being chewed up completely by cultists.
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...I've met some cool and intelligent people in this forum (queen, jordan, walksalone, liljp, tmz, you) so it's good to know that this forum isn't constantly being chewed up completely by cultists.
...aww...I'm sad that I wasn't included. ;)
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Calling people Retards? That's your idea of cool and intelligent? ::)
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well falconer considered me intelligent at some point, but apparently when you start defending yourself from being called delusional, you are no longer cool LOL
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Calling people Retards? That's your idea of cool and intelligent? ::)
Since Falconer was referring to people he has met on here when he said "cool and intelligent", when have I called someone that or used the word "retard"? I personally cannot stand the use of it (in that sense, sorry Falc) and have seen it used by another person many times. I believe she called me that a couple times just yesterday as a matter of fact.
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well falconer considered me intelligent at some point, but apparently when you start defending yourself from being called delusional, you are no longer cool LOL
I just wrote down the first few names that came to mind so if you're not on the list, don't worry about it. Notice the edit of Amyrouse since she posted a few seconds after I did.
I personally cannot stand the use of it (in that sense, sorry Falc) and have seen it used by another person many times. I believe she called me that a couple times just yesterday as a matter of fact.
Well now that you know who I'm referring to...sorry for using 'retard' so bluntly. I guess I could settle for mentally deficient. I'm sure you can agree with that...given the history...
Who was that other guy who said hell was at the center of the earth? He had his myspace in his sig and...damn he was scary. He had videos of himself screaming on streets at night quoting the bible and yelling at people that they were sinners. Cars were just passing by slowly. Psychotic weirdo.
Calling people Retards? That's your idea of cool and intelligent?
Hey, I go by what I'm seeing from certain christians on this forum. I get a kick out of how everyone of different beliefs except the christians are the ones that seem more sound, interesting, and peaceful. It's the christians here who are wishing bad upon people who don't agree with them- "I'm right. You're wrong. Believe in my god or you will not be saved! You'll burn in hell! But it's your choice! You can believe what you want to believe! But ultimately you're wrong!" people don't need to hear this tribal garbage. It's extremely offensive. Even if you think you're trying to help, you're cursing them like some dull primitive. Since it seems to be a semi-collective conscience among the christians here, I can easily state that it's a nonprogressive and ineffective idea that hinders feeble minds (or, if you wish, retarded by definition). Keep in mind this is just the tip of the iceburg. Understand this isn't directed at you, just the whole 'fad' spreading around d+d.
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Calling people Retards? That's your idea of cool and intelligent? ::)
Since Falconer was referring to people he has met on here when he said "cool and intelligent", when have I called someone that or used the word "retard"? I personally cannot stand the use of it (in that sense, sorry Falc) and have seen it used by another person many times. I believe she called me that a couple times just yesterday as a matter of fact.
My response was to Falconer02's posting only. Again jordandog, don't own something that isn't yours.
Anyone, no matter who, or what, they claim to be, when they resort to name calling or applying highly derogatory labels to people or groups, has not learned to appropriately "converse" on a normal level of social decorum.
Wherever people are gathered, your going to have disagreements, but there's an acceptable way to "fervently debate" in a manner for all to accept and understand getting a point across. I had someone post me that I hated them, and wanted to kill them, when nothing was posted with those words in my posts, ever.
We all are "real" people behind the keyboards. None of us actually know what people on this forum are ALL about, or what they are going through or struggling with in their daily lives. We all have bills to pay, children to raise, find jobs if unemployed, etc., or get through the daily turmoil which is just life.
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well falconer considered me intelligent at some point, but apparently when you start defending yourself from being called delusional, you are no longer cool LOL
I just wrote down the first few names that came to mind so if you're not on the list, don't worry about it. Notice the edit of Amyrouse since she posted a few seconds after I did.
Ahh...I was just teasing, Falc. ;) But I'm glad you think I'm cool and intelligent.
I don't understand why people ask what religion you are if you believe there may be a God. I don't do church, or anything like that....I don't associate with a Religion because there are too many...which is the correct one?
I guess I got to ask God.
Usually if you talk about Jesus being g-d and you need to accept him to get into heaven, its a sign that you're Christian. ;)
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Anyone, no matter who, or what, they claim to be, when they resort to name calling or applying highly derogatory labels to people or groups, has not learned to appropriately "converse" on a normal level of social decorum.
I think you haven't been around long enough to see all of the nutjobs that pass by here. Sorry for not meeting your social decorum quota but given the nature and history of you christians, I still stand by my words. If you can't take the heat and cannot refute the claims, why are you even in d+d?
I had someone post me that I hated them, and wanted to kill them, when nothing was posted with those words in my posts, ever.
That's pretty nutty! I had someone post that I would die in a car wreck.
None of us actually know what people on this forum are ALL about, or what they are going through or struggling with in their daily lives. We all have bills to pay, children to raise, find jobs if unemployed, etc., or get through the daily turmoil which is just life.
Maybe they should concentrait on getting those aspects figured out instead of posting in heated debates on FC?
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Jesus is not God.
If you believe that, why would you post this as part of your How many people will end up in hell, thread???
If you don't believe the Bible, then you had better hope to God that your right; If you believe the Bible "just enough" to obey it and call upon the saving name of Jesus Christ for salvation and the forgiveness of sins--you will be safe! We all must die and it’s guaranteed that were not going to escape death! It’s just a matter OF TIME! Prepare to meet thy God!
Salvation is not found in religion, but in a person—Jesus Christ!
If Jesus is not God, what authority does he have to forgive, how is there salvation by calling on the name of a mere human??
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Are you not the one that told them to predict something that would happen to you? Maybe that was liljp and got it confused.
Trying to play the innocent card as usual. Get back under the bridge and back on your medication, troll. Back on ignore for you.
If you believe that, why would you post this as part of your How many people will end up in hell, thread???
I'm under the impression you're on your way to see what a despicable person she really is. Just like all the others. This is getting ridiculous.
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I'm under the impression you're on your way to see what a despicable person she really is
I don't think she is despicable, I am however very frustrated with her lack of consistency and attacks on other people for mistreating her; all the while screaming that they are going to hell for not believing in a god that she says she doesn't know for sure exists, preaching the bible while starting several threads about evolution.....I think she is deeply confused :confused1:
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Anyone, no matter who, or what, they claim to be, when they resort to name calling or applying highly derogatory labels to people or groups, has not learned to appropriately "converse" on a normal level of social decorum.
I think you haven't been around long enough to see all of the nutjobs that pass by here. Sorry for not meeting your social decorum quota but given the nature and history of you christians, I still stand by my words. If you can't take the heat and cannot refute the claims, why are you even in d+d?
I had someone post me that I hated them, and wanted to kill them, when nothing was posted with those words in my posts, ever.
That's pretty nutty! I had someone post that I would die in a car wreck.
None of us actually know what people on this forum are ALL about, or what they are going through or struggling with in their daily lives. We all have bills to pay, children to raise, find jobs if unemployed, etc., or get through the daily turmoil which is just life.
Maybe they should concentrait on getting those aspects figured out instead of posting in heated debates on FC?
That's the second time you have referred to me not knowing anything here because I'm only 2 months new. It's not rocket science to see what's going on, and how certain people conduct themselves. As far as not taking the heat or refuting the claims, I have no idea what your referring to.
Nobody has to have anybody's approval (including yours) to "hang out" in D&D, or anywhere in this forum, except Admin.
I was only mentioning that all of us (as humans) should show a certain level of respect for each other, since we all have all of life's stuff to deal with, which is a lot more important than belittling someone on a forum.
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Jesus is God's son.
Only Christians believe that.
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I'm under the impression you're on your way to see what a despicable person she really is
I don't think she is despicable, I am however very frustrated with her lack of consistency and attacks on other people for mistreating her; all the while screaming that they are going to hell for not believing in a god that she says she doesn't know for sure exists, preaching the bible while starting several threads about evolution.....I think she is deeply confused :confused1:
Jesus is God's son.
Only Christians believe that.
Words right out of my mouth shernajwine.
She is not despicable, a troll, nor lives under a bridge, and posting something like that is rude. Like you said, put your ignore button on.
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I believe that Jesus is God manifested to humanity as the Son. As every denomination of christianity I have ever heard of believes. They may believe the Trinity, or they believe Oneness, but both doctrines believe that Jesus is God. Only Christians believe that Jesus is the savior...even if you want to say he isn't God....you made a statement declaring that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. That is a Christian belief.
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Jesus is God's son.
Only Christians believe that.
Is that why you believe Jesus is God?
Jesus is the son of God (the flesh). He was also the "body/temple" of God on earth, and glorified embodiment in heaven. Jesus was "God with us on earth". Shernajwine and I had this same discussion on a thread while back and I can't remember which one. Sherna, can you? She can explain as well as I can, as she has more than a layman's understanding of it. Jesus was God manifested in flesh on earth.
Why don't you write me on our other contact site, and I'll give you some scriptures and stuff you can study ok?
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Yeah I don't believe that.
God is God, Jesus is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is The Holy Spirit....Rock, Paper and Scissors....Not the same person.
Also it isn't
1. The Holy Spirit
2. God
3. Jesus
it is: The Holy Spirit God Jesus Christ.
My point marie, is that if you believe Jesus is the way to salvation.....that is a CHRISTIAN BELIEF. And you said you were not Christian. I am trying to help you clarify what EXACTLY it is that you believe, because you keep contradicting yourself.
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[quote[Shernajwine and I had this same discussion on a thread while back and I can't remember which one. Sherna, can you?[/quote]
It was titled Trinity vs Oneness
But I'm not sure how much we posted there will help her. I had already had a vague concept of Oneness without realizing it and our discussion had a mutual understanding that Jesus is God.
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
Again, baptism is a Christian belief. Are you Christian marie?
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
Again, baptism is a Christian belief. Are you Christian marie?
Baptism is Christian; Baptists are a sect of Christianity.
A Baptist is an individual who has experienced salvation through personal faith in Jesus Christ. This is the basic building block in the making of a Baptist. A Baptist is one who acknowledges the sufficiency of Scripture. Such an individual believes the Bible is God's truth without any error. A Baptist is Trinitarian in his/her understanding of God. We believe the Bible teaches that God is eternally One in three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each is fully God, yet God is One.
Click here for more info: http://www.baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?ID=226
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amy, I find it highly amusing that you...a jew...are trying to help define Christianity to someone who believes in Jesus as the son of God.
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amy, I find it highly amusing that you...a jew...are trying to help define Christianity to someone who believes in Jesus as the son of God.
Ditto..... :heart:
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That's the second time you have referred to me not knowing anything here because I'm only 2 months new. It's not rocket science to see what's going on, and how certain people conduct themselves. As far as not taking the heat or refuting the claims, I have no idea what your referring to.
Arguing the topic-- not necessarily this thread (besides my earlier claims), but others.
I was only mentioning that all of us (as humans) should show a certain level of respect for each other, since we all have all of life's stuff to deal with, which is a lot more important than belittling someone on a forum.
Arguments get down and dirty all the time here. That's why d+d was created. We show a certain amount of respect until certain users go postal and post offensive things. Then we usually argue back. If it's inevitable that the person is a dunce after refuting their claims, it's not worth the time. But then they don't stop and the thread spins out of control from people not seeing the flame-bait/troll patterns.
She is not despicable, a troll, nor lives under a bridge, and posting something like that is rude. Like you said, put your ignore button on.
She's an internet troll. And yes, a person who wishes pain on others and parades how everyone's going to burn after they die is despicable.
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amy, I find it highly amusing that you...a jew...are trying to help define Christianity to someone who believes in Jesus as the son of God.
Ditto..... :heart:
I believe that knowing what you believe in (or don't believe in) is vital to your individual happiness. If I can help someone who is confused figure something out, then I've been successful. I don't want to convert or change someone's mind...I want them to find peace in themselves, and I believe Marie needs this.
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I completely agree with you amy!
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marie, please get into contact with Annella outside the forum. I can hear the fear in your words and my heart goes out to you but I cannot effectively help you here in this public area and I'm probably not as qualified as Annella. Please talk to her, I'm sure she can help you.
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marie, please get into contact with Annella outside the forum. I can hear the fear in your words and my heart goes out to you but I cannot effectively help you here in this public area and I'm probably not as qualified as Annella. Please talk to her, I'm sure she can help you.
I've left you (marieelissa) a couple emails hon.....
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My fav quote is
I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
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My fav quote is
I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
:angel12: Anyone know what Bible verse backs that "fav quote" up?
Here ya go, Sheryl:
Acts 2:38: "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed in a hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
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There are only 2 people in here that are not HELL BOUND! :o
Hmmm gods followers must remember JUDGE NOT. So in that retrospect you my dear are hell bound.
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I don't believe in God, never did, I really don't but that fear of burning in hell is always there...thanks to made up religion and that I cannot even tell if God is real.
Yeah, I said it...if there is no God...I wish something could be done...so I could finally get some peace and sleep at night without thinking Demons are going to possess me or the Devil will drag me to hell.
It is all out of fear...
WHAT THE HELL? Your past posts to this post have made no sense what so ever. Maybe you should seek out counseling hon.
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed in a hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
Very good analysis of baptism!
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Thank you, Sherene. ;) I am sure if anything I posted is incorrect, someone with better knowledge will post corrections to what I wrote.
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed in a hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
You err in the scriptures and taking them out of context. Acts 2:38 is the "PLAN" of Salvation to prepare you for Heaven. However, the whole second chapter of Acts is of receiving of the promise of the Holy Ghost (as spoken by the Prophet Joel), and when Jesus told His disciples, to go and wait for the promise of on high (Holy Ghost). ALSO, This is where Peter stands up and tells what to do, when they were "pricked " in their heart of conviction. Jesus had already died and rose. This was the birth of the dispensation of Grace, and the birth of the church. I know I've mentioned this before and caught flack about it not being in the Bible....but it is.
Your right, in that it takes faith to come to the Lord. However, there is "ACTION" to be taken after that faith.
Baptizing a baby with sprinkling gives the baby no choice. A baby cannot make a choice of Baptism or non Baptism. There has to be an age of accountability (which is different for everyone), (when they understand right from wrong). Everyone chooses, that's our free will. An innocent child that does not understand the concept of sin, cannot understand the reason to be baptized for remission of sins. There has to come a day for that realization. Since God knows the very intentions of our heart, that would include children also, and He is the judge. An innocent child cannot go to hell for something they don't understand.
I was helping conduct a revival a few years back, and saw 2 little 3 year old girls go to the alter hand and hand, and receive the Holy Ghost (speaking in tongues). We baptized both of them that night in Jesus Name. They understood enough to repent of there sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. Even though what sins could a 3 year old have, I don't know. Of course both of them were born in Christian families in the church and, came to that knowledge at an early age. The age of accountability is different for every child.
As far as receiving Christ on your deathbed.......well, my question would be, why did they wait to make the ultimate choice just before death? However, I've witnessed repenting just before dying, and we would baptize them in Jesus Name, and they would receive the Holy Ghost. There is no death bed repentance unless there is the fulfilling of the WHOLE plan of Salvation. Not my words......the Bible's.
Jesus answered, Verily, Verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit (Holy Ghost), he CANNOT enter into the Kingdom of God. John 3:5
Therefore we are buried with Him by Baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4
Buried with Him in Baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2:12
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Amy actually quoted the correct verse.
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed in a hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
Very good analysis of baptism!
Wrong.
The Bible is very clear what the "plan" of Salvation is. The very reason for obtaining Salvation is to prepare us for Heaven. Just because you are baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost, is not a guarantee for Heaven either, but it gets you "ready". Then comes living the life of a believer. If I accepted Christ, and then went back to my old ways of living and sinning, what newness of life is there? Millions "accept" the Lord Jesus Christ, but go no further. It takes change and commitment to live for God, and people don't want to pay the price. It's so much easier to kick back and "coast", than to actually live or stand up for your beliefs. The concept of once saved always saved is not scriptural.
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I agree with what you're saying Annella, about once saved always saved. I believe that baptism is extremely important, but I also remember that the criminal being crucified next to Jesus wasn't baptized and Jesus said he would be with him in paradise. Baptism is necessary for the infilling of the Holy Spirit, but the bible says any who call on the name of Jesus will be saved. Acceptance of Christ is salvation, baptism is the next step in receiving power, to live the life God called us to live.
I know there are many people in my church, I don't know about my pastor, but they believe without the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, you can't go to heaven. And I just don't believe that. The man on the cross next to Jesus is a prime example. Why does he get to be an exception and we don't? My husband has been seeking baptism in the Holy Spirit for years, he has been baptized in the name of Jesus....he loves God...but God would send him to hell because he doesn't speak in tongues?? I don't think so.
You have people that accept Christ but are ignorant to the importance of baptism. They believe they are saved without it, but they die. Does God send them to hell?? No. I don't believe that for a sec. We are judged according to what we know, adult, baby, teenager...it doesn't matter. Mentally challenged people, who don't understand....tribal peoples who are not exposed to evangelism....these people are not exempt from heaven because they were never baptized, they are judged by what they know to be right because God has given every man a moral compass so to speak. It's when salvation is presented, understood and rejected that a person is held responsible for that rejection.
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I agree with what you're saying Annella, about once saved always saved. I believe that baptism is extremely important, but I also remember that the criminal being crucified next to Jesus wasn't baptized and Jesus said he would be with him in paradise. Baptism is necessary for the infilling of the Holy Spirit, but the bible says any who call on the name of Jesus will be saved. Acceptance of Christ is salvation, baptism is the next step in receiving power, to live the life God called us to live.
I know there are many people in my church, I don't know about my pastor, but they believe without the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, you can't go to heaven. And I just don't believe that. The man on the cross next to Jesus is a prime example. Why does he get to be an exception and we don't? My husband has been seeking baptism in the Holy Spirit for years, he has been baptized in the name of Jesus....he loves God...but God would send him to hell because he doesn't speak in tongues?? I don't think so.
You have people that accept Christ but are ignorant to the importance of baptism. They believe they are saved without it, but they die. Does God send them to hell?? No. I don't believe that for a sec. We are judged according to what we know, adult, baby, teenager...it doesn't matter. Mentally challenged people, who don't understand....tribal peoples who are not exposed to evangelism....these people are not exempt from heaven because they were never baptized, they are judged by what they know to be right because God has given every man a moral compass so to speak. It's when salvation is presented, understood and rejected that a person is held responsible for that rejection.
First of all, the thief on the cross was still under the Law. Jesus had not made the ultimate sacrifice yet, so the baptism of the water and Spirit could not be applied there. Since Almighty God manifested in the flesh was hanging next to him, He could promise him Paradise. Remember that under the OT Law, sins were not remitted, but rolled ahead each year on the Day of Atonement. The sacrifice of blood of the Lamb of God (Jesus) ushered in the birth of the church and a "Salvation Plan" (Acts 2:38). John baptized unto repentance. Before that, there was no baptism being performed. Since John the Baptist (Jesus cousin) was the forerunner to proclaim Jesus ministry on the earth, he introduced Baptism for repentance, but that still wasn't the Baptism of "remission" of sins. Remission is erasing them forever. Never before possible without the shedding of Jesus Blood. How could the man on the cross receive the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost had not yet been "poured out", until Jesus was dead and buried and rose again. He was still under the LAW of the OT.
As far as your husband seeking the Holy Ghost and in danger of not getting it and going to hell? God knows all hearts and if your husbands heart is seeking God with all sincerity, then the ultimate Judge is God. Yes, the Bible does say that those who call upon the Lord shall be saved, but that's not the whole Salvation in it's whole. You know you can't just take one scripture and base everything on that. You must take all the Salvational scriptures and reveal the "what" we MUST do to be saved.
I did not write that you MUST be born of the Water and Spirit to enter the Kingdom of Heaven......it's Bible. There are those that are mentally challenged who do not understand. I believe God has a place for them. For the rest of us, your right, we will be judged on what we know. No one can stand before God and say I didn't know when they have easy access to scriptures.
If we do know, and reject it, then we are in trouble. Many people will hear and believe, but do nothing. We have a just God. He holds all power. I'm not the judge. I can only do what the Word of God says. If you know that having the Holy Ghost is a requirement for Salvation, and reject it, then you are in danger of being lost. The plan of Salvation in it's fullness is clear. The Bible says a wayfaring man need not err therein. In other words, it's there for all to see. There are those that have a form of religion but deny the power thereof (Holy Ghost). There are a lot of people being deceived into thinking they are saved, or they have chosen to be halfway, because they don't want to pay the "price". A lot of people want a "feel good" religion that requires nothing but lip service, and still maintain a sinful lifestyle. That..........is not a Christian. That is a luke warm experience, with no transforming power. Sherna, you've been in the church long enough to know what I'm talking about. Christianity takes work and commitment. Some do not want to commit to the whole plan, even though they see it.
Taking about the man on the cross being the exception, well, he was, because he did not need the Holy Ghost to make it to Heaven. The Holy Ghost had not been poured out yet. You don't fully comprehend the types and shadows of the OT to the new. There was no "remission" of sins before the shedding of blood on the cross. There was no Holy Ghost until Jesus died, rose again, and then came back manifested in the power of the Holy Ghost. Remember Jesus said the Comforter would not come until He go. The Holy Ghost is Christ in us the hope of Glory.
I'm only giving you Bible Sherna.
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Amy actually quoted the correct verse.
Aww...don't say that like you're surprised, Annella. ;)
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I've posted before that I will not argue Bible with anyone who doesn't believe it being the Truth of God.
What I WILL post is when the Word of God is not being interpreted correctly and giving people false information.
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Amy actually quoted the correct verse.
Aww...don't say that like you're surprised, Annella. ;)
:thumbsup:
I have to go for a few minutes as my web designer is on the phone, but I'll be back ASAP.
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Sherna, you've been in the church long enough to know what I'm talking about. Christianity takes work and commitment
Yes, but I also know that everyone is on their own path to spiritual growth. What is sin for me is not sin for somebody else because of what God has revealed to me personally. He hasn't revealed anything contrary to scripture but...for example, if God told me not to wear jeans, that is something he told me to do, not Suzie next door. I can't tell Suzie she shouldn't wear jeans because God said so, she would reject that.
I can point out scriptures to somebody about the importance of baptism but it's up to the Holy Spirit to lead them to acceptance. After all, (and we have seen plenty of it in this forum) the bible can and often is misinterpreted and more often than not it's intentionally interpreted to justify what someone WANTS to believe. So, in that case only the Holy Spirit can reveal truth in the scripture. Just as no man comes to Christ unless led by the Spirit, no man comes to accept the need for baptism unless the holy Truth has been revealed to him!
As you said, and I have said it too, only God knows a persons heart. I just don't have it in me to say be 'baptized or you're going to hell'. I can tell a person the benefits and importance of baptism but I won't use the fear of hell to drive a person to such an intimate gesture of accepting the very Spirit of God into oneself. I don't know everything there is to know about scripture, I'm positive you have more knowledge revealed to you than I do, so please understand I am not trying to argue scripture. I guess I just stand in a different aspect of presenting the need for baptism.
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Proverbs 12:2 A good man will obtain favor from the Lord, but he who hates reproof is stupid.
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I've posted before that I will not argue Bible with anyone who doesn't believe it being the Truth of God.
What I WILL post is when the Word of God is not being interpreted correctly and giving people false information.
Sorry hon, the above was not actually meant for you per se. It was to explain why I post to some posts and ignore others. I'm actually addressing someone else through email. I've been blasted for not entering into the evolution/athiest/whatever stance. I won't post or argue those postings if the person does not believe the Word of God is the Word of God.......you obviously do......Okay.....onward:
Sherna, you've been in the church long enough to know what I'm talking about. Christianity takes work and commitment
Yes, but I also know that everyone is on their own path to spiritual growth. What is sin for me is not sin for somebody else because of what God has revealed to me personally. He hasn't revealed anything contrary to scripture but...for example, if God told me not to wear jeans, that is something he told me to do, not Suzie next door. I can't tell Suzie she shouldn't wear jeans because God said so, she would reject that.
I can point out scriptures to somebody about the importance of baptism but it's up to the Holy Spirit to lead them to acceptance. After all, (and we have seen plenty of it in this forum) the bible can and often is misinterpreted and more often than not it's intentionally interpreted to justify what someone WANTS to believe. So, in that case only the Holy Spirit can reveal truth in the scripture. Just as no man comes to Christ unless led by the Spirit, no man comes to accept the need for baptism unless the holy Truth has been revealed to him!
As you said, and I have said it too, only God knows a persons heart. I just don't have it in me to say be 'baptized or you're going to hell'. I can tell a person the benefits and importance of baptism but I won't use the fear of hell to drive a person to such an intimate gesture of accepting the very Spirit of God into oneself. I don't know everything there is to know about scripture, I'm positive you have more knowledge revealed to you than I do, so please understand I am not trying to argue scripture. I guess I just stand in a different aspect of presenting the need for baptism.
Your referring to the scripture that everyone has to work out their own Salvation with fear and trembing.....Agreed. However, the "plan" of Salvation is for everyone. This is the beginning of your spiritual life as a Christian After that, what ever your private/personal convictions.....are up to you and God. Your spiritual growth is what is taking place AFTER you have accepted the plan of Salvation. Spiritual growth is over a lifetime. Everybody is in different stages of spiritual growth (your correct). Although I'm curious why you picked the conviction of wearing pants or not.......lol We aren't talking standards here, nor would I. We are addressing the plan of Salvation which is a different point, than living a day by day life of a Christian.
I will teach someone about Baptism and it's importance, but they DO have to see it, and understand why they are doing it. Baptism is a very important step, but a step that is required in the plan of Salvation. People do have to know that by being Baptized is actually taking on a symbol of Christ's death, and being buried with Him through baptism and the removal/remission (completely erasing) their sins. I do teach the WHOLE plan of Salvation. One day I will have to give account for my preaching/teaching of the Gospel. No, it doesn't make me popular in some groups, but that's not why I'm in this. I want souls to be saved.......simple as that.
I should say that not 1 person has decided NOT to be Baptized after I've taught them after they have repented. they may not do it that instant, but it doesn't take long before they come to be Baptized. Some get the Holy Ghost before they get baptized, and just naturally know they should get baptized. I have always believed that the Holy Ghost reveals this to them.
Whoa.....I don't think I said anyone was going to hell. Please don't put something in there I did not say. I do remember saying that you can be lost for not obeying the plan that God has laid out.......i.e. if you reject so great Salvation. The Bible clearly states this can happen.
As far as interpretation.....I only posted what is scripture, and what it says to be saved. Again, the scripture of "Unless your born of the water and the Spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven", is not my words....it's Bible. I never tell anyone they are going to hell. I present the Word of God in it's full aspect, and hope they accept it. Some will and some won't.....it's always up to our own will.
That's where the Holy Ghost comes in. It opens up (reveals) God's Word to us, and helps us to live the true life of a Christian. Don't take this wrong, but do you have the Holy Ghost? You said your husband was seeking it. Not to say anything negative or anything.....just curious. I've watch some of your videos and such. Your in a Holiness Oneness Apostolic movement. I'm almost positive your Pastor teaches this as the plan of Salvation.
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Although I'm curious why you picked the conviction of wearing pants or not.......lol We aren't talking standards here, nor would I
It probably wasn't the best example, but my point was that once a person agrees to accept Jesus as savior....that is step number in the plan of salvation. From there a person has to be told, understand, and act upon baptism. Some people stay between that first step and the second for some time. Either because they are not told about baptism, or don't understand it's relevance and importance in the plan of salvation. That's not always their fault. A lot of churches set up baptism as "a great thing to do, but it's not necessary". But if a person is between accepting Christ and being baptized, I can only point to scripture and the Holy Spirit has to reveal the truth in it. I personally don't feel convicted to not wear pants but a lot of the women in my church have that conviction and if I asked them, I'm sure they would point out the scripture that they believe justifies their position. I don't have that conviction. I don't think pants or no pants is in the plan of salvation lol...it was a bad example to make my point.
"Unless your born of the water and the Spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven"
Right. But again, I believe God is judging you by what you know and understand about the Truth that is being presented. Child, adult, mentally challenged, ....all those I mentioned before....have the ability to receive the heavenly reward based on what they know and understand is true. If a person is given an explanation of baptism that is true (I have heard some pretty ridiculous teachings about baptism and I wouldn't blame a person for refusing it based on some teachings out there) and they understand it....to not follow through is a rejection of the act of Christ on the cross and is a rejection of God. But they key is being "told" about it and "understanding".
And also I didn't mean to imply you were misinterpreting scripture, only that people DO misinterpret and this can cause them to not even consider baptism as important and therefore never act on it.
Don't take this wrong, but do you have the Holy Ghost?
Yes ma'am I do! ;D
I was rebaptized in the name of Jesus 2 years ago, spoke in tongues almost a year ago.
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Annella, you cited this part of John 3:5, "Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."
Let me ask you this. It is always 'assumed' that water here means baptism. Why is that, since Christian baptism by water hadn't yet been practiced/instituted at the time it was written? If this verse did mean baptism, then the only kind that it could have been was baptising to repent sins as in the works of John the Baptist. I was taught that we repent our sins to God alone. No one can be baptised alone, as far as I am aware. A person needs salvation to enter heaven, yes? If salvation comes through faith and there isn't a baptism of repentance anymore, then why is baptism necessary for heaven?
I am writing this to ask, not to argue with you, since you pretty much shot down what I said as far as Acts. I am giving you what I was taught and have previously studied over the course of 25 years, and part of that is the 'fact' that most people use the Acts verse as 'proof' of needing to be baptised to get into heaven.
edited to add:What I WILL post is when the Word of God is not being interpreted correctly and giving people false information.
How can you know, with absolute surety, that your interpretation of the bible is 'correct'?
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Although I'm curious why you picked the conviction of wearing pants or not.......lol We aren't talking standards here, nor would I
It probably wasn't the best example, but my point was that once a person agrees to accept Jesus as savior....that is step number in the plan of salvation. From there a person has to be told, understand, and act upon baptism. Some people stay between that first step and the second for some time. Either because they are not told about baptism, or don't understand it's relevance and importance in the plan of salvation. That's not always their fault. A lot of churches set up baptism as "a great thing to do, but it's not necessary". But if a person is between accepting Christ and being baptized, I can only point to scripture and the Holy Spirit has to reveal the truth in it. I personally don't feel convicted to not wear pants but a lot of the women in my church have that conviction and if I asked them, I'm sure they would point out the scripture that they believe justifies their position. I don't have that conviction. I don't think pants or no pants is in the plan of salvation lol...it was a bad example to make my point.
"Unless your born of the water and the Spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven"
Right. But again, I believe God is judging you by what you know and understand about the Truth that is being presented. Child, adult, mentally challenged, ....all those I mentioned before....have the ability to receive the heavenly reward based on what they know and understand is true. If a person is given an explanation of baptism that is true (I have heard some pretty ridiculous teachings about baptism and I wouldn't blame a person for refusing it based on some teachings out there) and they understand it....to not follow through is a rejection of the act of Christ on the cross and is a rejection of God. But they key is being "told" about it and "understanding".
And also I didn't mean to imply you were misinterpreting scripture, only that people DO misinterpret and this can cause them to not even consider baptism as important and therefore never act on it.
Don't take this wrong, but do you have the Holy Ghost?
Yes ma'am I do! ;D
I was rebaptized in the name of Jesus 2 years ago, spoke in tongues almost a year ago.
No, it's not people's fault if they are not taught right. This upsets me more than you know. Your absolutely right!!! it has to be taught correctly. The person has to understand why they are doing it, and what it means. I know it's not included as important in some movements, or taught as not that important. Why? Ya got me! I do know, and firmly believe that if a person is sincere in their search for true Salvation, God paves the way for them, and he will lead them to the Truth (a smoking flax he will not quench). If someone is really trying to understand, God will reveal it. Woe to those teachers that do not teach it correctly.
As far as the mentally challenged, children, etc., God has a place for them. He is a fair and just God. We have a lady in our church who is mentally challenged (not just a little). She wanted to get baptized because she saw others getting baptized. She bugged and bugged us. After we prayed about it, we figured what would it hurt? That mentally challenged lady got baptized, and THEN received the Holy Ghost, and spoke in tongues!! She may have not understood it, but somehow she knew she wanted to do it, and somehow...because she should. Do you know that when deaf and dumb people get the Holy Ghost that they speak in tongues? They may never speak again, but the "evidence" of being filled is there!! Cool huh?
If someone does not understand (child, mentally challenged, etc.), and they die, I believe God takes them unto himself. Some cannot understand because of their mind being challenged, and children have to reach an age where they are accountable, and know right from wrong. That can be different for every child.
Somehow I knew you had it!!!!!! Wonderful isn't it? I was Baptized in Jesus Name when I was 13, but didn't get the Holy Ghost until I was 18. I was kinda rebellious when I was young.....lol Don't tell anyone, but I'll be 60 in 24 hours....lol Sherna, He has NEVER failed me, and He is my best friend! You can't buy that!
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Annella, you cited this part of John 3:5, "Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."
Let me ask you this. It is always 'assumed' that water here means baptism. Why is that, since Christian baptism by water hadn't yet been practiced/instituted at the time it was written? If this verse did mean baptism, then the only kind that it could have been was baptising to repent sins as in the works of John the Baptist. I was taught that we repent our sins to God alone. No one can be baptised alone, as far as I am aware. A person needs salvation to enter heaven, yes? If salvation comes through faith and there isn't a baptism of repentance anymore, then why is baptism necessary for heaven?
I am writing this to ask, not to argue with you, since you pretty much shot down what I said as far as Acts. I am giving you what I was taught and have previously studied over the course of 25 years, and part of that is the 'fact' that most people use the Acts verse as 'proof' of needing to be baptised to get into heaven.
edited to add:What I WILL post is when the Word of God is not being interpreted correctly and giving people false information.
How can you know, with absolute surety, that your interpretation of the bible is 'correct'?
I like to go back to the scripture when God says it. So lets go there to the scripture you mentioned. John 3:5
Go back to the 1st verse of that Chapter. Nicodemus came to Jesus by night and called Him Rabbi (teacher). Nicodemus was a spiritual ruler of the Jews (a Pharisee). Of course the Bible doesn't say so, but I believe he came at night because he didn't want all his other cronies to know he was seeking some spiritual answers. He also made the statement that Jesus was from God because no man could do the miracles He did. This is where Jesus says except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
Of course Nicodemus does not understand this because he asks about entering a second time into his mothers womb.....and he is old. Then the scripture you asked about....."Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".
I've heard people teach that the water you are born in is the baptism. Well Jesus says no, because in the next verse he says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John the Baptist WAS baptizing at this time in the dessert unto repentance. Jesus went to be baptized by John. John made the comment that he should actually be baptized by Jesus. Jesus said basically that they should do this to fulfill scripture. Jesus was our example. Matthew 3 :13-16 So....in answer to your question, Baptism was actually being introduced here by John the Baptist.
Also, Matthew 3:16 says that John the baptist was baptizing in the Jordan. The Jordan is a river in Israel...that you know. What you don't know is that it is DIRTY. I've baptized people in it, and it's filthy and has hugh fish that look like they can take a bite out of your leg. Was happy getting those baptisms done....lol
See my previous post of baptism after Jesus arose and the significance of being Baptized unto His death. A "burial" of our sins, a washing away, never to be remembered against us again. Acts 2:38 plan of Salvation was AFTER Jesus rose. We wash and wash away with water.
Now this next part is going to get a little in depth so I apologize. Those who study will understand these references. In the Strongs Concordance (in the Greek, which is what the NT is studied in), 907, 908, 909,
910, and 911. Definitions of Baptism, Baptisms, Baptist, Baptist's, Baptize, Baptized, Baptizest, Baptizeth, and Baptizing:
907 - Baptizo - To make "overwhelmed"- which actually means "to immerse" e.i. or "fully wet", 908 - Baptisma - Baptism. Referring back to 907 above.
909 - Baptismos - Ablution, baptism, washing, again referring back to 907 above.
910 - Baptistes - A Baptizer, or Christ's forerunner (John the Baptist), or Baptizer or Baptist
911 - Bapto - To overwhelm (907), or cover completely with fluid, dip, moisten.
There is no way you can refute that this means to immerse someone in Baptism. What is something that the world has the most of......water. It's not the water that makes you clean, it's the "act" of obedience to the Word of God.
Now....in answer to your other question. After Jesus died, and rose, and the Holy Ghost is being poured out, and people are getting baptized in Jesus Name, after repenting (all through the book of Acts.....you really should read it for yourself). The next is paraphrased......In the 19th chapter of Acts, Apostle Paul found certain disciples at Ephesus and asked them had they received the Holy Ghost since they believed? They mention they have never heard of the Holy Ghost. Paul then asks them "how were you baptized?", They said "under John's baptism" Paul says "John only baptized unto repentance, that they should believe on Him that would come after him (remember, he was the forerunner of Jesus). When they heard this they were baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus. Paul also laid hands on them, and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.
Jesus was our example to follow. He was being baptized by John to point to after His death and resurrection for us to follow. There was a new dispensation and a new way of remission of sins. Acts is the actions of the early church foundation.
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Oh sorry, you had another question about how I know my interpretation of the Bible is correct? It's not My interpretation.
Well, I by no means know the whole Bible interpretation. I do know that scripture will interpret scripture. In studying the Word of God, I'm very careful and take great pains to exhaustively study out the most important things. Salvation is so important that we get it right. This is life and death after all. Prayer and fasting for God to give wisdom in His Word is paramount. He tells us to ask freely for this wisdom, and he will give it freely.
The best evidence I can give you is that I've found the Word of God to be Truth. I've put it to the test in so many ways. If I hear something that doesn't sound right....even over the pulpit, I go study it out. No one told me that I could get the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. I was told that was just for the Apostles or Jesus disciples in the church I was in at the time. Well, Acts 2:39 says it's for everybody. One night, I got it!! I was told again that it was not for me. Well, that showed me that someone was telling me wrong. If that was told wrong to me, what else was? I realized that some do not have the whole Truth, and went looking for it. If your hungry for what is right and true, God will not disappoint you.
Also, the indwelling of the Holy Ghost "reveals" the Bible to you. Now this is going to sound lame to someone who does not understand this, but those who have the Holy Ghost will know what I'm talking about. The Bible is not of any private interpretation, but God does reveal His Word to His servants. The Bible says the Holy Ghost is the leader and guider into ALL Truth.
The best thing though is to study it out for yourself. I have great Bible studies where everybody picks a subject and we all study it out. The real Truth comes out if you really want to know it. God is not a trickster, and really wants us to find out what he's written to us.
Sherna studies, I can tell it in her postings. She's still learning, I'm still learning, so is everyone who is walking this Christian way.
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, "rightly dividing" the Word of Truth. II Timothy 2:15 Rightly Dividing means interpreting it right (when you study it out).
I hope I've answered everything. If I've missed something, let me know.
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Jordandog, did I answer your questions? I hope I didn't "bury" you with information. It's the preacher in me, kind of comes with the territory.
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Sorry, I thought I had posted here after getting home from work the other morning. 10-12 hour on/off night shifts are killing my body and my brain!
Yes, you answered my questions in as far as your understanding and interpretation of the scriptures. You didn't bury me. I have read and remember most all of those you cited. I guess it is a difference in what one sect believes and teaches over another.
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I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
:thumbsup: whew, I was never baptized...somehow it got "missed". I've been a Christian for too long now for it to symbolize what it's supposed to so I don't feel a need for it. :angel12: I've spent alot of time reading the Bible though and have had quite a few people tell me that being baptized is a REQUIREMENT for heaven but I'm with you, the Bible just doesn't say that. Jesus will get people into Heaven when religion can't. :)
Jordandog, your question above was......how can we be sure they were talking about "water" in Baptism? Then you do a 180, about the "NEED" to be baptized, and the scriptures I gave didn't explain it.....well duh! I was giving you proof of the use of water. If what you were actually asking, was the NEED of Baptism.....I definitely missed it. However, I will address the need in this post. Or....I'll let the Bible speak for itsself.
I find this kind of amusing, because it's obvious none of the previous posts were read. Uh, this is not any religion, and the BIBLE does say it!
In the Old Testament, there was no remission of sins, until there was shedding of the Blood of Christ, sins could not be done away with for good. The act of repenting, and then Baptism, is required to "wash" those sins away, in the act of Baptism, to be buried with Him, to rise in newness of life. If these were my words, I could understand your rejection......but the scriptures?
I've listed scripture out of Acts, and following books of the Bible regarding Baptism. Acts 2:38-41 is the new foundation for Salvation after Christ's resurrection. If you don't want to use the Book of Acts as the start of the church, then what do you want to use? There's no other account.
Can you point me to another after the resurrection of Christ? (in the Bible......not man made up)
Baptism is an integral part of Salvation, because it makes us partakers of His death in Baptism. This has nothing to do with any sect or religion. This is Bible and nothing else.
Everything is in these scriptures:
Acts 2:38-41 - This is where the new members of the early church were Baptized (the start of 5,000 people).
Acts 8:12-16
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 9:18
Acts 10:47-48
Acts 16:33
Acts 18:8
Acts 19:3-5
Acts 22:16
Romans 6:3-4
Ephesians 4:5
Colossions 2:12
Galatians 3:27
Everyone in the early church was baptized.
Yes! The gentiles got the Holy Ghost also, and were also Baptized. In the 10th Chapter of Acts, it tells about Cornelius and his house (family) that were gentiles, which was the opening of the door for us, to the same plan of Salvation. This was for everybody, not just the Jews. Christ dies for ALL.
As far as people on their death bed, why would they wait that long to make such an important decision? That's like saying someone killed in a car crash didn't have the chance to be Baptized. That's absurd. We are given a lifetime to make these important decisions. As far as Children.......sigh Obviously you did not read my posts above very well. Children are not Baptized until they can reach an age where they understand it, the age of accountability (they know right from wrong). God would never send an innocent child to hell.
Jesus said except ye are born of the water, and the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.......NOT ME.
NO religion will save anybody!! NO church name will save anybody!!! Nothing but the Word of God, and obedience to it. That of course brings us to our choice (free will) now doesn't it?
BUT......if the Word of God tells us to do it (scriptures above), then we should do it. Everyone got Baptized according to the plan of salvation in the book of Acts.....Everyone. That was the start of the early church. They didn't have a name for a religion. It does say that they were first called "Christians" at Antioch.
I understand that there are different beliefs out there, and different churches have different interpretations. I've given you Bible Scripture......nothing else. We will be held accountable with what we read, and is revealed to us. My job is to only put it out there.........I've done that.
Kind of on a funny note: If the Bible told us to do 3 somersaults in order to be saved, wouldn't you do it?
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@Annella:
Jordandog, your question above was......how can we be sure they were talking about "water" in Baptism? Then you do a 180, about the "NEED" to be baptized, and the scriptures I gave didn't explain it.....well duh! I was giving you proof of the use of water. If what you were actually asking, was the NEED of Baptism.....I definitely missed it.
Annella, I think you better refer to who you quoted as to saying anything about "need". That quote you used in your last post was from SherylShado, NOT ME. You wondered why I said "4th time" in another post as far as your assimilating me into replies I had nothing to do with - here is yet another example of it.
I find this kind of amusing, because it's obvious none of the previous posts were read.
Hmmm, no, I said I read your post. I read it in depth and even took the time to go back through and read more portions of the bible citings you used for myself. I have NO idea where that came from.
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Kind of on a funny note: If the Bible told us to do 3 somersaults in order to be saved, wouldn't you do it?
the Bible doesn't say to be water baptized in order to be saved though...one gets saved and then in obedience gets baptized. I was 8 years old when I was saved, I was the ONLY one in my family that was attending church at that time (also for several years before and after age 8). I could only attend SUN am worship service, rarely a WED or SUN night. I was never told about baptism until several years later at which point I had asked in the church about it and it drew some laughter and the response I got was "that is something a person does right after they get saved as it symbolizes to others that that person is "born again" and now living for Christ". I never said a Christian shouldn't get baptized, I believe they should. I've had a long time now living for Christ, I've never made a secret of it. If I decided to get baptized at this point...it wouldn't make any sense to me or the others that know me. If I ever feel Christ telling me to go get baptized then I certainly will but He has convicted me of any wrong-doing in that dept. I know many other "religious" people so bent on telling me the unbaptized won't be going to Heaven that commit repeated sin left and right...somehow that's supposed to be "better" than someone that missed water baptism. Again, God will judge the hearts.
Kind of on a funny note: If the Bible told us to do 3 somersaults in order to be saved, wouldn't you do it?
the Bible doesn't say to be water baptized in order to be saved though...one gets saved and then in obedience gets baptized. I was 8 years old when I was saved, I was the ONLY one in my family that was attending church at that time (also for several years before and after age 8). I could only attend SUN am worship service, rarely a WED or SUN night. I was never told about baptism until several years later at which point I had asked in the church about it and it drew some laughter and the response I got was "that is something a person does right after they get saved as it symbolizes to others that that person is "born again" and now living for Christ". I never said a Christian shouldn't get baptized, I believe they should. I've had a long time now living for Christ, I've never made a secret of it. If I decided to get baptized at this point...it wouldn't make any sense to me or the others that know me. If I ever feel Christ telling me to go get baptized then I certainly will but He has convicted me of any wrong-doing in that dept. I know many other "religious" people so bent on telling me the unbaptized won't be going to Heaven that commit repeated sin left and right...somehow that's supposed to be "better" than someone that missed water baptism. Again, God will judge the hearts.
Okay, your twisting the words here. Of course it's in obedience. No, you don't get Baptized to get saved, but it is part of the plan of Salvation. You repent, and then Baptized to "remit" those sins. Are you just jumbling the words here, or are you actually being serious? Your making it sound like I'm saying you have to get Baptized before anything else........of course not. I honestly can't believe you thought that's what I was saying.
You certainly would have to "see" your need for Baptism, and it's personal. Of course you have to repent first, I mean, what would be the point? You would go down a dry sinner, and come up a wet one.
I know people who have been in another denomination for years and years, and see that their need for Baptism. Who cares when you do it. That's not important. You should understand why, and what the "act" actually Means. I don't baptize anyone unless they fully understand what and why.
Yes, God will judge the thoughts, and intents of our heart. He will also judge what we heard, understood, and either accepted or rejected in His Word.
The fact people laughed at you.......is not funny.
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Annella, I think you better refer to who you quoted as to saying anything about "need". That quote you used in your last post was from SherylShado, NOT ME. You wondered why I said "4th time" in another post as far as your assimilating me into replies I had nothing to do with - here is yet another example of it.
I believe the only way you get into heaven is if you are baptized, among other things.
I believe they were copying this when they posted that, Sheryl. The citing of The Acts verse has nothing to do with going to heaven. It is receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore salvation. Even the gentiles received the Holy Ghost, so that is not 'proof' of going to heaven. Baptism has nothing to do with going to heaven either. Nowhere does the bible say do this ceremony and you will receive salvation and get into heaven. Salvation is supposed to come from faith, not from faith and then a ceremony someone goes through.
Let me put it this way: if baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who 'receives Christ' on his deathbed in a hospital, etc. would go to hell if they don't get baptized before they die. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't all baptized.
I was referring to the quote above.....this is not yours? This was a quote off of Sheryl's post. I pulled them off together, and answered them both.
I'm sure it's yours. I went back and checked.
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Annella, you cited this part of John 3:5, "Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."
Let me ask you this. It is always 'assumed' that water here means baptism. Why is that, since Christian baptism by water hadn't yet been practiced/instituted at the time it was written? If this verse did mean baptism, then the only kind that it could have been was baptising to repent sins as in the works of John the Baptist. I was taught that we repent our sins to God alone. No one can be baptised alone, as far as I am aware. A person needs salvation to enter heaven, yes? If salvation comes through faith and there isn't a baptism of repentance anymore, then why is baptism necessary for heaven?
I am writing this to ask, not to argue with you, since you pretty much shot down what I said as far as Acts. I am giving you what I was taught and have previously studied over the course of 25 years, and part of that is the 'fact' that most people use the Acts verse as 'proof' of needing to be baptised to get into heaven.
edited to add:What I WILL post is when the Word of God is not being interpreted correctly and giving people false information.
How can you know, with absolute surety, that your interpretation of the bible is 'correct'?
I took your answers as ones to this question directed specifically to you. You answered them all and in depth. You saying I did a 180 and mentioned need used a quote from SherlyShado and I had already taken the answers as far as my INITIALLY mentioning 'need' from all previous posts BEFORE my last question. The question of "Need" was no longer mine. I don't see that as doing a 180 because I had NOT brought 'need' back up after my initial post that you used. Taking my post from the 18th and tying it in 6 days later is really not a 180 on my part, can you see that?
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Okay, but when I answer a post, and someone has "pulled" someone's else's post to make their point, then I feel both should be addressed. Is that not correct? Would you not do the same thing? Everybody's posts here are available for everyone else to pull off to refer to, combine with others, make a point, or answer.
Your acting like I'm trying to single you out to "wound" you. Or misquote you. Not so. The post is yours. Granted, Sheryl took it to tack onto hers, but it was still yours. If Sheryl "pulled" your post to add credence to her stand, then I wanted to be sure it all got answered. That's all. No foul here.
I went back to "check". Your post was made BEFORE the "water" question. Sheryl went back and pulled it, and tacked it onto hers (like I thought). It was an older post. I can see how you thought all the answers derived from it was past. However, there were some key points in it that I wanted to make clear for Sheryl as she was using it as reference.
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"Taking my post from the 18th and tying it in 6 days later is really not a 180 on my part, can you see that?"
Just in case it was missed after I modified.
I do not feel at all like you are trying to wound me, that's silly and not your style. I just try NOT be the type who DOES do the 180's, they make my head hurt! And I did read all you wrote, as I said previously. I don't do anyone the disservice of asking questions and the NOT reading what they say, no point in it.
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"Taking my post from the 18th and tying it in 6 days later is really not a 180 on my part, can you see that?"
Just in case it was missed after I modified.
I do not feel at all like you are trying to wound me, that's silly and not your style. I just try NOT be the type who DOES do the 180's, they make my head hurt! And I did read all you wrote, as I said previously. I don't do anyone the disservice of asking questions and the NOT reading what they say, no point in it.
Like I said, I went back and checked. It was an old post Sheryl had pulled. It was almost a week old.
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Wait is someone really debating baptism with water? Remember when Jesus got baptized by John the baptist? remember it was in water?
No.......it was jello.
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Wait is someone really debating baptism with water? Remember when Jesus got baptized by John the baptist? remember it was in water?
Talk about NOT reading previous posts! :P
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Wait is someone really debating baptism with water? Remember when Jesus got baptized by John the baptist? remember it was in water?
Talk about NOT reading previous posts! :P
Ya
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Wait is someone really debating baptism with water? Remember when Jesus got baptized by John the baptist? remember it was in water?
No.......it was jello.
;D ;)
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Wait is someone really debating baptism with water? Remember when Jesus got baptized by John the baptist? remember it was in water?
Talk about NOT reading previous posts! :P
Yeah don't have time, right now.
Then maybe you should have waited to post a response until you have read all the posts. Someone (namely Annella) took the time to type it all out; the least you could do is read it before you jump into the conversation. :thumbsup:
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Sheryl,
No you did NOT cause a problem - don't even remotely think that, seriously. ;)
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Sheryl,
No you did NOT cause a problem - don't even remotely think that, seriously. ;)
:wave: thank you jordandog, ( been loving the cat avatar :) --you have some really great posts that mean something to me or I wouldn't quote you so much.)
Thanks and I love the cat too, as long as my dogs don't see it and they start the petty, jealous stuff. ;D There's enough stress around here lately without taking on any that isn't warranted - that's for sure.
Aww, TY too, marieelissa. Glad you appreciate things. 8)
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Obviously he left a long time ago. Your a bit behind for sarcasm.
Nope.
Falconer why r you wasting your brain cells on these brainless/mindless ones? I'm soooooo tired of the raving & ranting with all this energy they waste; it could power 10000 cities! The power shortage would be solved!! Lighting up the mood; I found a funny poem,author unknown: There R 2 things that you have 2 worry about in life. Either you stay healthy or you get sick. If your healthy there's nothing to worry about but if u get sick, there R 2 things 2 worry about; either u get well or you die. There R 2 things 2 worry about if you die. Either u go to hell or u go to heaven. If you go 2 heaven there's nothing to worry about. If you go 2 hell..................you'll be soooooo busy greeting Old Friends YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO WORRY!!!;)
Hahahah I love it. Thanks. The reason I'm posting is to just hear others opinions to see if there's anything unique to them; anything I haven't heard a million times before. I might learn something new here and there. Granted we have a ton of christian fanatics/zealots/retards with nothing to post but their close-minded, biased, convenient philosophy junk...it's really good to see the free thinkers who can see passed the obvious bullshit. I've met some cool and intelligent people in this forum (queen, jordan, walksalone, liljp, tmz, EDIT: AMYROUSE! Sherna, you) so it's good to know that this forum isn't constantly being chewed up completely by cultists.
Falconer02, I agree. If there weren't any intelligent fellow form friends like you & others....I would've left along time ago. In fact, I just got back in. I needed a break from the the stupidity of the brainless ones. I'm recharged now, ready for mental battle. I do enjoy mentally screwing with the zombies that over power this forum. I can tell you do to. Keep fighting the good fight!!!! :thumbsup:
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I am not a christian...I think there may be a God, but it is hard to tell. Honestly I really don't care...If there is a God there is and if not, O'well...I don't waste my time thinking about it.
I posted this in a much earlier post:
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is." (This would be the difference between spending an eternity in either Heaven or Hell)
— Albert Camus
Just remember.....we are ALL going to face Him one day and give an account of our lives!!! I believe that day is coming VERY soon!!
I've just been skimming through this thread, so I haven't completely read everything, but I just want to say that with the way things are going in this world nowadays, we could very well be seeing the second coming very soon. I just hope you are prepared with your decision. I'm not condemning you for your choice....we all are free to make whatever choice we want to, I just don't want to see anyone make the wrong one. :)
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Proverbs 14:15 is TRUTH(NWT)
The inexperienced one puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers it's steps
P.S. Yes I memorized the scripture word for word. It's the truth no matter who you are or what you believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
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For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
(Jeremiah 29:11)
:thumbsup:
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For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
(Jeremiah 29:11)
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup: This is one of my favorite scripture verses....especially after my husband passed away 9 years ago.
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Has anyone ever looked up some verses in young's literal, emphattic diaglott or new Jerusalem bible? See if you can find this translation on biblegateway and look up some OT scriptures, wording kinda different no? ???
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mine is a tye between jesus wept
and loe there is a painful disease in my loiens
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mine is a tye between jesus wept
and loe there is a painful disease in my loiens
Did you see Tim Hawkins bit about the diseased loins? LOLOLOLOL Hilarious! ;D
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I just felt like sharing some verses from the "Good Book"
"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB
No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose *bleep* has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord. (Deuteronomy 23:2 NAB)
And put a knife to your throat if you have a ravenous appetite. (Proverbs 23:2 NAB)
My teenager is screwed
"...They shall fall by the sword:
their infants shall be dashed in
pieces, and their women with child
shall be ripped up!"
direct quote from YHWH -- Hosea 13:16
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Oh *bleep*, today is Sunday. Is typing considered work?