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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: marieelissa on September 14, 2010, 05:43:38 pm

Title: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: marieelissa on September 14, 2010, 05:43:38 pm
That seems to be the way it is on the forums and in life...Yeah, if you believe in God, you're not intelligent...so just die...hahaha well maybe atheists don't want you to die but they will have fun making fun of you.  :wave:

I believe in God, mind you

(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/falconer02.jpg)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: ljNana on September 14, 2010, 06:55:01 pm
Did you all know that SCIENTISTS have proved that there is a section of the brain that is not available for use to anyone who does not believe in God.  It is only used when God is showing an individual an awesome secret.  Many scientists have become Christians when they had planned to devote their entire lives to prove there was no God.  In trying to prove this, they found out instead that there is a God.  Amen! 8)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 14, 2010, 09:00:27 pm
Did you all know that SCIENTISTS have proved that there is a section of the brain that is not available for use to anyone who does not believe in God.  It is only used when God is showing an individual an awesome secret.  Many scientists have become Christians when they had planned to devote their entire lives to prove there was no God.  In trying to prove this, they found out instead that there is a God.  Amen! 8)
  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: sflynt on September 15, 2010, 08:10:54 am
I've noticed! But everyone's entitled to there own opinion. God never said it would be easy but definitely worth it. Its a lot easier to not believe thats for sure.

Did you all know that SCIENTISTS have proved that there is a section of the brain that is not available for use to anyone who does not believe in God.  It is only used when God is showing an individual an awesome secret.  Many scientists have become Christians when they had planned to devote their entire lives to prove there was no God.  In trying to prove this, they found out instead that there is a God.  Amen! 8)

It is called the God Center.

I love that! I had never heard that before.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: alivinggem on September 15, 2010, 08:17:28 am
It takes more faith to not believe God exist!  I look at the sky and say there IS a God.
Thank God for His grace to easily believe Him through His Word and His Son, Jesus.  :heart: &  :peace:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 15, 2010, 09:52:14 am
That seems to be the way it is on the forums and in life...Yeah, if you believe in God, you're not intelligent...so just die...hahaha well maybe atheists don't want you to die but they will have fun making fun of you.  :wave:
Okay let me stop you there,, retard? Really? How rude and selfish of you.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: tammyrwa on September 15, 2010, 11:58:37 am
Well i'm a retard, because I believe in something greater than myself, and you are arrogant to assume that just because someone does, that they are stupid- what do you beleive in?. you want to bow the the altar of science, then go ahead, but all I can say is you better not be wrong, because if you are, you will spend eternity in hell.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: missijl on September 15, 2010, 12:49:52 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: sigmapi1501 on September 15, 2010, 12:55:22 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

I applaud you for not liking the use of the word. It is offensive. However the portion of the quote I've highlighted is simply not true.
Your use of the word often makes it not true.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: oonamas on September 15, 2010, 01:54:51 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

I know what you mean, even if literally speaking they do not have more intelligence. Sometimes it's the simplest people that have the biggest hearts and most compassion.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: alivinggem on September 15, 2010, 02:29:41 pm
I believe in God, and get called unintelligent all the time on this forum by atheists or people that don't share my beliefs.

well the important thing is that you know who you are and who you belong to. if anyone says anything different than that is ill-informed by choice.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: missijl on September 15, 2010, 04:50:40 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

I applaud you for not liking the use of the word. It is offensive. However the portion of the quote I've highlighted is simply not true.
Your use of the word often makes it not true.
Let me rephrase that so it might make sense to you...
"People who are classified as mentally retarded often stimulate my mind more than so-called "smart" people."  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: missijl on September 15, 2010, 04:57:16 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

I applaud you for not liking the use of the word. It is offensive. However the portion of the quote I've highlighted is simply not true.
Your use of the word often makes it not true.
Let me rephrase that so it might make sense to you...
"People who are classified as mentally retarded often stimulate my mind more than so-called "smart" people."  :thumbsup:


What happend to your earnings banner? Did it get too high?
What do you mean "what happened" (*spelling) to it? Does something happen to your banner if it gets "too high"?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: briannajeanxo on September 15, 2010, 05:04:13 pm
i believe in god, and i dislike when people tell me i shouldnt. i believe in him for a reason. and that will never change.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 15, 2010, 05:07:31 pm
Quote
Most people that have an earnings banner that high in that short amount of time get kicked off Fusion Cash because of fraud.

Hehe, you talking about fraud, that's funny. Have you ever seen the number of referrals missijl has? I have and it's amazing! 8)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 15, 2010, 05:31:09 pm
Quote
Most people that have an earnings banner that high in that short amount of time get kicked off Fusion Cash because of fraud.

Hehe, you talking about fraud, that's funny. Have you ever seen the number of referrals missijl has? I have and it's amazing! 8)

Nope can't say I have. I wasn't aware people could hack into your account either.

I have no idea what hacking into anyone's account has to do with this. I saw it in a couple posts she made about number of offers she has done vs (huge) amount of money from referrals - IF that's what you meant by hacking.....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: belleg1 on September 15, 2010, 05:40:02 pm
Good Lord in Heaven have mercy on us all. Amen.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 15, 2010, 06:51:26 pm
all I can say is you better not be wrong, because if you are, you will spend eternity in hell.

And so will you if the Muslims are right.   ::)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 15, 2010, 07:47:43 pm
Quote
If you believe in God, You're a retard
Quote
That seems to be the way it is on the forums and in life...Yeah, if you believe in God, you're not intelligent...so just die...hahaha well maybe atheists don't want you to die but they will have fun making fun of you.

I think there's only one retarded person in D+D and most of us know who that one person is. Don't make threads with such offensive titles and expect to be treated with any respect, troll.

Quote
Well i'm a retard, because I believe in something greater than myself, and you are arrogant to assume that just because someone does, that they are stupid- what do you beleive in?. you want to bow the the altar of science, then go ahead, but all I can say is you better not be wrong, because if you are, you will spend eternity in hell.

I'll take that wager. Considering there's in an infinite amount of other possibilities aside from your own.  "Altar of science"  ;D. Love it!

Quote
Did you all know that SCIENTISTS have proved that there is a section of the brain that is not available for use to anyone who does not believe in God.  It is only used when God is showing an individual an awesome secret.  Many scientists have become Christians when they had planned to devote their entire lives to prove there was no God.  In trying to prove this, they found out instead that there is a God.


Alright sorry to kill the magic here...Though I see it can be used as a card for the existence of god, this is far from proof. Considering a majority of the test subjects researched had brain damage or suffered from bad seizure disorders, it's obvious the brain is hotwired to have an emotional pillow. I would question the belief in a god who only chooses the ones with mental handicaps/disorders to experience his awesomeness.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Alyia72 on September 15, 2010, 08:50:24 pm
I wonder if they ever know what they are saying?

Its really hard to ignore you when people keep quoting your nonsense.  But perhaps you should ask yourself this very same question? One day you don't believe in god yourself and claim so here on the forums. The next minute your preaching Muslim ethics to everyone.  The next your a devout christian telling people how bad they are and pointing out all their sins.  Its OK to be confused about what you believe in religion can be very confusing.  But please stop making a mockery of other people's faiths and beliefs.  That's part of debating accepting the fact that people have different opinion's and beliefs its not an open crusade to convert everyone over to your personal beliefs. Or attack people buy calling them names such as you did with the tittle of this thread.  You are the one that took what someone said from another thread and implied that they were calling you a retard when in fact they did not say that.  You got a burr up your butt because someone had a different opinion on something and started this thread to draw attention.  Kinda sad.. go ahead attack me again and call me the fry girl..or whatever the choice words for this evening will be I could use a good laugh. Wait I know....back off you right? 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Alyia72 on September 17, 2010, 02:36:07 am
Are we a bit bored tonight Marie?  Unlocking your awesome thread just to come back at peoples comments they said days ago...not to mention cutting out huge sections of their actual quotes to make things appear way out of context.  Your taking things way out of context doesn't make them offensive to everyone just yourself and you have only yourself to blame for that.  If you read the whole paragraph to Falconer's post you would see that what was said was not offensive but opinion.  If you think it was offensive so what grow a thicker skin.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Alyia72 on September 17, 2010, 02:39:48 am
Freedom of speech my dear...its in that constitution you so readily defend
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 17, 2010, 06:24:17 am
 :cat:  This is absolutely ridiculous.  Marie, stop stirring the pot and get with the jist of the threads.  I backed you in the beginning and defended you, but you don't give any room for that now.  Stop this, please.  Admin even helped you out and even suggested things to do when you don't agree with something and you replied you were going to work on it.  When?  I enjoy debating with you when you are writing about what's going on in the thread itself - you have some great ideas and comebacks.  So, what happened to that person - please bring her back.    
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 17, 2010, 04:11:35 pm
One thing to remember when debating if there is a God or not, is neither side can prove anything.

So that is why I am done with the religious debates...they ran their course..
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 17, 2010, 04:36:55 pm
One thing to remember when debating if there is a God or not, is neither side can prove anything.

So that is why I am done with the religious debates...they ran their course..

No one cares, Troll!

OH THE IRONY.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 17, 2010, 04:39:50 pm
You start it, though, then *poof* you don't want to follow thru.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 17, 2010, 04:44:38 pm
Naw I'm not spamming, I'm warning people that don't know you that before they start trying to prove a point to you you are just going to back out halfway through or start with sensless ramblings and say youre done debating it. you said that then posted TEN new threads about religion.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 18, 2010, 12:21:20 pm
Naw I'm not spamming, I'm warning people that don't know you that before they start trying to prove a point to you you are just going to back out halfway through or start with sensless ramblings and say youre done debating it. you said that then posted TEN new threads about religion.

Warn them when they start speaking to me and quit spamming posts and every single thread.
Don't worry, I did.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: bschumacher on September 18, 2010, 03:19:09 pm
Folks--- no need to get so upset about this. I notice that both athiests and religious people can get terribly militant. Both sides are entitled to their beliefs (or lack thereof), as long as no one feels compelled to blow up airplanes and buildings.  As long as no harm is being done, let's live and let live. Just for the record, I believe in a power greater than myself.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 19, 2010, 05:07:48 am
I notice that both athiests and religious people can get terribly militant.

Why is it "militant"?  Would you prefer the conversation be boring without any real substance?

Quote
As long as no harm is being done, let's live and let live.

There IS harm being done on the religious side -- maybe not extremes by people on this forum specifically, but by being a member of the club, moderate believers are still encouraging the negative mindset and/or contributing financially/politically to the vile activities that stem from it.

Quote
Just for the record, I believe in a power greater than myself.

Are you pretending that this is some kind of virtue?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 19, 2010, 05:36:11 pm
As long as no harm is being done, let's live and let live.
There IS harm being done on the religious side -- maybe not extremes by people on this forum specifically, but by being a member of the club, moderate believers are still encouraging the negative mindset and/or contributing financially/politically to the vile activities that stem from it.


What kind of harm is being done if someone hears the Gospel "message," and decides to accept that message?  Then when he/she dies one day, he/she goes to Heaven to be with God (if you can please look at the possibility of Heaven for just a minute.)  There is no harm in that whatsoever. Those people just have reassurance where they are going when they die. To you, it should not make one difference or the other, since you believe the way you choose to. The only harm then, is to the one who does not accept the "message" and goes to hell.  Then there's regret forever for not listening and accepting. Once again, should that really matter to you either since you are secure in what you feel or know?

Now, I do agree with you on a different aspect. There are "preachers" and other so-called "christians" out there, on tv and not, that are greedy and take advantage of innocent people.  I have to question their goals there.  I know they will receive their come-uppance one day, but that sure doesn't take care of them now.  It's people like this that make Christians look bad who are not supporting that kind of trash.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 19, 2010, 07:16:39 pm
Queen has posted this video before, and I agree with it.  http://www.youtube.com/user/gogreen18?blend=4&ob=4

The reason why many atheists (and some believers) care about religion so much is because many followers use it when it comes to government.  The mirror can be flipped.  If a believer is so staunchly in support of their religion, why do they feel the need to use it to legislate?  Gay rights, reproductive and sexual rights (Sarah Palin comes to mind here, esp when looking at her daughter and how birth control could have come in handy), and so many other progressive issues are being pushed down by conservative believers that feel their morals should be utilized hand in hand with legislation.  Think homosexuality is a sin?  Fine...keep it personal for you, and don't try to push that belief upon those who don't agree, and are living their lives.  I'm not targeting anyone on this forum personally...I'm just giving an explanation here.  I have 613 commandments that I try to follow personally...but I am not expecting anyone else to follow those commandments.  I think that religion will not be as heated a topic when someday people stop making it that way...all people.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 07:02:25 am
What kind of harm is being done if someone hears the Gospel "message," and decides to accept that message?

Okay first of all, I'm going to assume you mean, "What's the harm of a MODERATE Christian?"  And there's plenty.

The #1 greatest harm of being just a "moderate" Christian is: you're still a member of a club where some people do horrible things under the cover of the same beliefs that you share.  The more people that are in the club, the more encouragement is given to the mindset that makes some people feel justified murdering gays, tormenting a woman who got an abortion to the point of suicide, voting against civil rights, miring our children's educational system, etc.

Now you might say, "Oh, guilt by association isn't fair", and when it comes to something you can't choose (like being black), then yes it is.  But you can CHOOSE to be a Christian, and it takes CHRISTIANS for Christianity to exist.  You may not be the one bombing abortion clinics, but something you unknowingly said to a neighbor in Christ might have encouraged THEM to.

Again you might say, "Well THOSE Christians are crazy", forgetting that your Bible adamantly speaks out against homosexuals for example, even commanding that they be put to death.  Straight from the mouth of "god" himself.  Bring to light that it wasn't "god" who came up with such prejudiced brutality but instead primitive man, and people no longer have an excuse to commit such atrocious acts.  Because let's face it -- some people actually DO take the Bible literally, and they only think they're serving the lord by carrying out his **quite explicit** death orders.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 07:18:21 am
The #2 greatest harm even for a "moderate" believer is: once they've allowed magical, impossible, woo-woo thinking to infiltrate their brain, they're going to be more susceptible to other B.S. throughout their life.  This includes - on the small-scale - of falling for scams, to the greater dangers of putting too much trust in a pastor that says donate $100 and god will fix all of their debt problems.

Another example is let's say a believer is held up in an alley and a voice inside their head - that they think is god - says, "You don't have to give him the money.  Tell him about Christ, and you'll be okay."  And so you say that and guess what happens?  Your husband beside you gets shot directly because you thought "god" was going to get you out of this mess.  Don't tell me that something like this couldn't happen, because I've been a Christian and I know the mindset, and it most certainly does!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 07:41:17 am
when he/she dies one day, he/she goes to Heaven to be with God (if you can please look at the possibility of Heaven for just a minute.)  There is no harm in that whatsoever. Those people just have reassurance where they are going when they die.

The #3 greatest harm deals with this.  Has life after death been proven?  No, not even in the slightest.  When y'all think of a "soul", most of the time you're referring to your personality, but guess what?  Personality is located 100% in the brain.  This has been proven by science.  Your brain is physical just like the rest of your body, so if you can admit your body dies and withers away, why wouldn't your brain which contains your personality (being a physical part of your body) die too?

You're believing in this magical occurrence of somehow your personality will float into another dimension where you'll receive a new body with special "soul senses" (remember, you need the physical senses of sight, touch, smell, etc. AND a brain to interpret it all to be able to perceive your surroundings AT ALL).  How does that not sound ridiculous to people?!

But anyway, back to the harm...so you are having people convince themselves of a lie just because they're sad about death.  They may, in turn, take their one and only life for granted if they think the "real" life starts after they die.  It is a death cult: don't worry too much about living *this* life to the fullest, because it is just the doormat you wipe your feet on before entering eternity (of which we have no proof of).  If someone dies in a car wreck and has their soul - er, brain - splattered all over the highway, instead of remembering them and actually grieving, we can forget about them over a weekend simply because we say they're in magical Happy Land.

Quote
The only harm then, is to the one who does not accept the "message" and goes to hell.

Being in the worst pain imaginable on end, FOREVER?  Wow, that's it??

It's clear from you and Sherna's nonchalant talk of hell that you two really haven't thought about it.  Too blinded by the fantasy of heaven to care, for sure.

Quote
Once again, should that really matter to you either since you are secure in what you feel or know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbMcthUZGW8
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 07:59:12 am
What kind of harm is being done if someone hears the Gospel "message," and decides to accept that message?

Okay first of all, I'm going to assume you mean, "What's the harm of a MODERATE Christian?"  And there's plenty.

The #1 greatest harm of being just a "moderate" Christian is: you're still a member of a club where some people do horrible things under the cover of the same beliefs that you share.  The more people that are in the club, the more encouragement is given to the mindset that makes some people feel justified murdering gays, tormenting a woman who got an abortion to the point of suicide, voting against civil rights, miring our children's educational system, etc.

Now you might say, "Oh, guilt by association isn't fair", and when it comes to something you can't choose (like being black), then yes it is.  But you can CHOOSE to be a Christian, and it takes CHRISTIANS for Christianity to exist.  You may not be the one bombing abortion clinics, but something you unknowingly said to a neighbor in Christ might have encouraged THEM to.

Again you might say, "Well THOSE Christians are crazy", forgetting that your Bible adamantly speaks out against homosexuals for example, even commanding that they be put to death.  Straight from the mouth of "god" himself.  Bring to light that it wasn't "god" who came up with such prejudiced brutality but instead primitive man, and people no longer have an excuse to commit such atrocious acts.  Because let's face it -- some people actually DO take the Bible literally, and they only think they're serving the lord by carrying out his **quite explicit** death orders.
I'm sorry, but you are going too far in a direction that doesn't coincide with your normal Christians living day to day.  If you choose to stand by that, then remember atheists and non-christians do the same type of things.  Don't put this all off on "moderate" Christians.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 08:03:29 am
The #2 greatest harm even for a "moderate" believer is: once they've allowed magical, impossible, woo-woo thinking to infiltrate their brain, they're going to be more susceptible to other B.S. throughout their life.  This includes - on the small-scale - of falling for scams, to the greater dangers of putting too much trust in a pastor that says donate $100 and god will fix all of their debt problems.

Another example is let's say a believer is held up in an alley and a voice inside their head - that they think is god - says, "You don't have to give him the money.  Tell him about Christ, and you'll be okay."  And so you say that and guess what happens?  Your husband beside you gets shot directly because you thought "god" was going to get you out of this mess.  Don't tell me that something like this couldn't happen, because I've been a Christian and I know the mindset, and it most certainly does!
Like I said, these kinds of things also happen to atheist and non-christian groups who all of a sudden called "by God" to do these things. Or not called by God and do these things.  Those are highly publicized cases you are speaking of and does not get any support from the millions of Christians who are truly involved in their own personal relationship with God. I am not part of that ridiculous group and it's a shame they use God that way.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 08:06:07 am
when he/she dies one day, he/she goes to Heaven to be with God (if you can please look at the possibility of Heaven for just a minute.)  There is no harm in that whatsoever. Those people just have reassurance where they are going when they die.

The #3 greatest harm deals with this.  Has life after death been proven?  No, not even in the slightest.  When y'all think of a "soul", most of the time you're referring to your personality, but guess what?  Personality is located 100% in the brain.  This has been proven by science.  Your brain is physical just like the rest of your body, so if you can admit your body dies and withers away, why wouldn't your brain which contains your personality (being a physical part of your body) die too?

You're believing in this magical occurrence of somehow your personality will float into another dimension where you'll receive a new body with special "soul senses" (remember, you need the physical senses of sight, touch, smell, etc. AND a brain to interpret it all to be able to perceive your surroundings AT ALL).  How does that not sound ridiculous to people?!

But anyway, back to the harm...so you are having people convince themselves of a lie just because they're sad about death.  They may, in turn, take their one and only life for granted if they think the "real" life starts after they die.  It is a death cult: don't worry too much about living *this* life to the fullest, because it is just the doormat you wipe your feet on before entering eternity (of which we have no proof of).  If someone dies in a car wreck and has their soul - er, brain - splattered all over the highway, instead of remembering them and actually grieving, we can forget about them over a weekend simply because we say they're in magical Happy Land.

Quote
The only harm then, is to the one who does not accept the "message" and goes to hell.

Being in the worst pain imaginable on end, FOREVER?  Wow, that's it??

It's clear from you and Sherna's nonchalant talk of hell that you two really haven't thought about it.  Too blinded by the fantasy of heaven to care, for sure.

Quote
Once again, should that really matter to you either since you are secure in what you feel or know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbMcthUZGW8

Life after death also has NOT been disproven.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 08:11:24 am
by queenofnines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbMcthUZGW8


The same opposite applies of why Christians get upset with atheists. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 10:24:52 am
I'm sorry, but you are going too far in a direction that doesn't coincide with your normal Christians living day to day.

You're missing the point.  It's like being a member of the *bleep* party and saying, "Well, I'm not a 'bad' *bleep*.  I'm not the one gassing Jews and stuff."  Do you see the problem here??

Quote
If you choose to stand by that, then remember atheists and non-christians do the same type of things.  Don't put this all off on "moderate" Christians.

Oh really?  In America, only 16% of the population is atheist and/or non-religious.  72% is Christian.  So where are all of these "atheists doing bad things" that you speak of?

While it's true there are some atheists who hate gays, are pro-life, and whatever else is in common with a god believer, we rarely hear about it because compared to the religious, there are FAR fewer non-believers that hold these "values".
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 10:35:41 am
these kinds of things also happen to atheist and non-christian groups who all of a sudden called "by God" to do these things.

This sentence doesn't make sense.  How can an atheist be called "by god" to do something bad?

Quote
Those are highly publicized cases you are speaking of

What does it matter if it was on the news or not?  Plenty of atrocities as the result of religion never make the news.  I think the fact that something like raping little boys is going on AT ALL because of religion is cause for concern.  Don't brush it off as, "Oh, I'm a civilzed Christian.  The believers that do bad things aren't really believers."  You have to take a look at how your religious ideas are affecting the world at large.

Want to argue that it's not religion that's the problem?  In the case of priests raping little boys, consider that they are in a religion that expects them to be celibate, says sex is a disgrace except within the confines of marriage, abhors homosexuality, etc.  Think about all of that repressed sexual tension...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: 502mania on September 20, 2010, 10:39:04 am
damn, queenofnines, you tell 'em.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 12:08:54 pm
I'm sorry, but you are going too far in a direction that doesn't coincide with your normal Christians living day to day.

You're missing the point.  It's like being a member of the *bleep* party and saying, "Well, I'm not a 'bad' *bleep*.  I'm not the one gassing Jews and stuff."  Do you see the problem here??

Quote
If you choose to stand by that, then remember atheists and non-christians do the same type of things.  Don't put this all off on "moderate" Christians.


Oh really?  In America, only 16% of the population is atheist and/or non-religious.  72% is Christian.  So where are all of these "atheists doing bad things" that you speak of?

While it's true there are some atheists who hate gays, are pro-life, and whatever else is in common with a god believer, we rarely hear about it because compared to the religious, there are FAR fewer non-believers that hold these "values".


To me, you simply sound as if you are totally against Christians, no matter how many law-abiding, good moral ones that there are.  I am a Christian, true, but don't lump me in with the stupid bunch making greedy fools of themselves.  You are too far-reaching with your blame.  The *bleep* example is something also that was tragic and doesn't compare here.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 20, 2010, 12:16:12 pm
these kinds of things also happen to atheist and non-christian groups who all of a sudden called "by God" to do these things.

This sentence doesn't make sense.  How can an atheist be called "by god" to do something bad?

Quote
Those are highly publicized cases you are speaking of

What does it matter if it was on the news or not?  Plenty of atrocities as the result of religion never make the news.  I think the fact that something like raping little boys is going on AT ALL because of religion is cause for concern.  Don't brush it off as, "Oh, I'm a civilzed Christian.  The believers that do bad things aren't really believers."  You have to take a look at how your religious ideas are affecting the world at large.

Want to argue that it's not religion that's the problem?  In the case of priests raping little boys, consider that they are in a religion that expects them to be celibate, says sex is a disgrace except within the confines of marriage, abhors homosexuality, etc.  Think about all of that repressed sexual tension...
Once again, you are giving extreme cases that are not connected with the majority, normal Christians.  I would be glad to find examples of non-christians or atheists and turn it back on you.  But that's not the purpose here. People make their own choices (when murdering, raping, etc.) whether or not they are Christians, nons, atheists, etc. MY religious ideas (and my family/friends/etc.) are not affecting the world at large as you say, other than to offer them the way to Christ.  If they don't want Him, fine, their choice. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 20, 2010, 01:40:33 pm
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...if that was the case all rapists would be that religion.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 01:41:00 pm
You know if only black people believed in God, what you are doing would be considered racist and predjudice! Shoot, just for me saying this will be considered racist and predjudice...  :sad1:

There you go again, bringing up black people because no one has paid attention to you in awhile.   ::)  Psst...it only makes you look like the racist bringing them up so often and for no reason, marie!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 01:42:11 pm
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...

Why is there such a high concentration of pedophiles in that position then?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 01:50:22 pm
To me, you simply sound as if you are totally against Christians, no matter how many law-abiding, good moral ones that there are.

And this is a typical response.  I'm not against the "good" Christians like you think...I still think it's unfortunate that their one and only life is based on something that's not true, for sure, but if they can keep their beliefs within the confines of their church and homes, it's cool.  Christianity at large CAN'T seem to do this, however, and that's where the problem lies.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 02:02:51 pm
People make their own choices (when murdering, raping, etc.) whether or not they are Christians, nons, atheists, etc.

Do you still think those men would have flown planes into buildings on 9/11 (or blow themselves up on a daily basis) had they not thought they were getting 72 virgins in heaven?  It's possible, but a LOT less likely.  People only kill themselves in this way if #1 - they're nuts or #2 - they believe they'll receive an eternal reward.

What about the mothers who have drown their 5 kids in a lake to spare them from hell?  Would they still have done that if they knew hell was a fairytale?  Again it's possible, but only if the mother was completely insane.  The murdering mamas did MEAN well, after all, even if the act itself was completely useless and senseless.

How about the parents that let their kids die because they PRAY for them rather than taking them to the doctor?  Again, they MEAN well by trying to serve their god, but reality gets the best of them because prayer doesn't work.  There is no god there to cure a disease that needs attention from medical professionals.  If they knew this, you can bet most would not neglect their children!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 20, 2010, 02:57:14 pm
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...

Why is there such a high concentration of pedophiles in that position then?
There are WAY more rapists that aren't priests than that are haha
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 20, 2010, 03:04:08 pm
Quote
Again, they MEAN well by trying to serve their god, but reality gets the best of them because prayer doesn't work.

This always perplexes me too. I mean if their god has a divine plan set in stone, and yet his followers ask him to make sure the outcome comes out in their favor, is god going to suddenly re-write his plan for the followers prayer? Wouldn't this idea fall into a time-paradox where since he changes one thing, everything after it will be different from the original plan? If so, his divine plan isn't set in stone. And if believers don't believe this and say it still is, there's no point to praying at all since everything is predetermined.

Quote
There are WAY more rapists that aren't priests than that are haha

I don't know how this really fits in correctly. They're still pedos in a high authoritative position. If one is to respect ones beliefs, the 'leaders' pushing those beliefs shouldn't be going around *bleep* children. Notice how when one says "Catholic Priest" nowadays, the word "pedophile" immediatly enters ones head.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 20, 2010, 03:45:16 pm
You know if only black people believed in God, what you are doing would be considered racist and predjudice! Shoot, just for me saying this will be considered racist and predjudice...  :sad1:

That has absolutely NO bearing on this entire topic. Are you that desperate to get a comment in here?!
If only cucumbers were Catholic priests who were pedophiles, then that would be prejudice and racism against Catholic cucumbers! >:(
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 20, 2010, 05:17:44 pm
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...if that was the case all rapists would be that religion.

I seem to remember this earlier in this topic...
Want to argue that it's not religion that's the problem?  In the case of priests raping little boys, consider that they are in a religion that expects them to be celibate, says sex is a disgrace except within the confines of marriage, abhors homosexuality, etc.  Think about all of that repressed sexual tension...

Besides that, your statement is a logical fallacy, Mack.  You're a smart cookie...really take a look at your statement here. 

Quote
There are WAY more rapists that aren't priests than that are haha

There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...and I'm willing to bet that they aren't all black, Marie...  ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 20, 2010, 05:41:07 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 20, 2010, 11:16:25 pm

Quote
There are WAY more rapists that aren't priests than that are haha

I don't know how this really fits in correctly. They're still pedos in a high authoritative position. If one is to respect ones beliefs, the 'leaders' pushing those beliefs shouldn't be going around *bleep* children. Notice how when one says "Catholic Priest" nowadays, the word "pedophile" immediatly enters ones head.

They abuse their position...they're not good Christians, they just use that as a way to get power...doesn't mean the whole religion is bad, in fact the religion in no way supports rape
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 20, 2010, 11:18:56 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.

The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 20, 2010, 11:45:51 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...
That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.
The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.

The point queen was trying to make above is that, specifically in the cases of the Catholic priests, the religion places restrictions on them that by some are seen as unnatural...but, I've said time and again that rape isn't a sexual crime but a crime of power, and these priests are using their position of power to humiliate and belittle those without power (and that sexual tension queen mentioned above could be attributing to this need of power...they don't have any control over their sexuality and physical wants/needs, etc etc).

Many people can claim, though, that the claim that Christianity is against rape is wrong.  There is scripture that can be interpreted as passive about rape, or as anti-victim.  Many of the major figures raped their slaves...and Lot's daughters raped him (some interpretation is going around that Lot spent years raping his daughters, so they didn't view what they did as wrong).  I'm not anti-religion or anti-Christianity...but the fact is there that there are people who will interpret scripture that way...and other than saying they've got it wrongly interpreted, how can one honestly claim that they are?  There are arguments about whether the Bible/Torah/Koran is factual or a book of stories...when there is so much contention within the religions, how can we honestly tell someone their interpretation is wrong?  I believe wholeheartedly that my religion is against rape...but scripture in my holy book could be interpreted otherwise.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: tammyrwa on September 21, 2010, 03:50:49 pm
First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 21, 2010, 04:34:35 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 21, 2010, 04:41:12 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 21, 2010, 04:58:22 pm
Thanks, Amy. Reading what you wrote sent a shiver up my spine, I cannot possibly imagine how many times that split second runs through your mind. :( Maybe it doesn't, I am not you, but that's exactly what I was getting at.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 21, 2010, 05:16:29 pm
Quote
A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

:-(
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 21, 2010, 05:47:43 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 21, 2010, 05:51:40 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: 502mania on September 21, 2010, 05:54:57 pm
Wierd place to jump in (haven't looked over the whole thread) but I think God made a group of people - not just two - and i think that adam and eve is a metaphorical lesson for the creation of man
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 21, 2010, 06:18:09 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.
Actually, there are many different religions and sects that say they are believers, such as Buddhists, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, and on and on, just to name a few.  Put those all together and yes, they would make up the majority of the population. If you are going to accuse believers of committing most of the bad stuff, then you should sort through all of the religions, break them down, and then give a statistic of who does what.  Not surprisingly, you may find only particular groups of religious sects have committed most of the bad stuff.  I would question them, then, and ask them just who it is they actually believe in, to do those awful things to others.  It's not right to just lump all these religions/sects into one big group, when we all don't believe the same way or in the same god.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 21, 2010, 06:47:49 pm
Actually, there are many different religions and sects that say they are believers, such as Buddhists, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, and on and on, just to name a few.  Put those all together and yes, they would make up the majority of the population. If you are going to accuse believers of committing most of the bad stuff, then you should sort through all of the religions, break them down, and then give a statistic of who does what.  Not surprisingly, you may find only particular groups of religious sects have committed most of the bad stuff.

Buddhists don't believe in god.  ;)

OF COURSE Islam is currently worse than Christianity, but need I remind everyone that's only because Christianity was dragged kicking and screaming into secular enlightenment.  Christianity has the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, murdering the Native Americans, wars, burning people at the stake, outlawing scientific progress, the promotion of slavery, etc. all to its name!

So just because the religion has become a bit more civilized does NOT mean the potential is not still there to be as bad as it used to be.  And there's still plenty of bad going on because of it even today...do I really need to go over the specifics again?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 21, 2010, 06:51:16 pm
Wierd place to jump in (haven't looked over the whole thread) but I think God made a group of people - not just two - and i think that adam and eve is a metaphorical lesson for the creation of man

Sherene and I had a discussion about this...I think you might actually enjoy reading through it...  http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17688.msg221049#msg221049
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 21, 2010, 09:58:56 pm
Actually, there are many different religions and sects that say they are believers, such as Buddhists, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, and on and on, just to name a few.  Put those all together and yes, they would make up the majority of the population. If you are going to accuse believers of committing most of the bad stuff, then you should sort through all of the religions, break them down, and then give a statistic of who does what.  Not surprisingly, you may find only particular groups of religious sects have committed most of the bad stuff.

Buddhists don't believe in god.  ;)

OF COURSE Islam is currently worse than Christianity, but need I remind everyone that's only because Christianity was dragged kicking and screaming into secular enlightenment.  Christianity has the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, murdering the Native Americans, wars, burning people at the stake, outlawing scientific progress, the promotion of slavery, etc. all to its name!

So just because the religion has become a bit more civilized does NOT mean the potential is not still there to be as bad as it used to be.  And there's still plenty of bad going on because of it even today...do I really need to go over the specifics again?

I didn't say Buddhists believe in God; I said they were believers.  ;)   Once again, you are lumping all Christians to all the bad stuff you mentioned.  That is wrong.  I do not support that.  As I said, there are different sects to religion and Christianity. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 23, 2010, 03:58:39 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 23, 2010, 08:56:36 pm
Everybody has a moral center that tells them right from wrong....no matter what you believe, or what religion you claim.....or don't claim.  We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).  Whether I believed in God or not, there are unspoken rules I adhere to because I'm......human.

You can call yourself any religion you like, but until you bear and put forth fruit that is spiritually and morally acceptable by both God and man.....your a fake.  The parable of the wheat and tares in the Bible is a good example of those calling themselves Christians, and all they are.....are phony's.  There are those in various religions and sects that give Christianity a bad name.  The tares looked like Christians, but misused the Word of God.  They use Christianity for a cloak of deceit to work mayhem.  

A religion that teaches celibacy (for life) is not interpreting the Word correctly.  They've taken a truth, and expanded on it, and twisted it to where it no more resembles the original Script than a comic book.  This is common in many so called "Christian movements".

Jcribb has said it well, as it's been said many times before.  You can't lump all Christians or believers in your negative perception of any group that titles themselves as Christian.  Calling myself a dress designer, doesn't make it so, if all I can do is mend socks.
  
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 23, 2010, 08:58:21 pm
Annella's back!  ;D
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 23, 2010, 08:59:21 pm
I'm back on US soil.  Be home tomorrow.  In NY tonight.  Good to be back though my friends! 

Thank you Sherene :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 23, 2010, 09:52:49 pm
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.

I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.   

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  :bs:.  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 23, 2010, 09:54:21 pm
I'm back on US soil.  Be home tomorrow.  In NY tonight.  Good to be back though my friends!

Good to see you back.  I've missed you!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 23, 2010, 10:07:13 pm
I'm back on US soil.  Be home tomorrow.  In NY tonight.  Good to be back though my friends!

Good to see you back.  I've missed you!


Thank you Amy :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 23, 2010, 10:09:31 pm
Everybody has a moral center that tells them right from wrong....no matter what you believe, or what religion you claim.....or don't claim.  We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).  Whether I believed in God or not, there are unspoken rules I adhere to because I'm......human.

You can call yourself any religion you like, but until you bear and put forth fruit that is spiritually and morally acceptable by both God and man.....your a fake.  The parable of the wheat and tares in the Bible is a good example of those calling themselves Christians, and all they are.....are phony's.  There are those in various religions and sects that give Christianity a bad name.  The tares looked like Christians, but misused the Word of God.  They use Christianity for a cloak of deceit to work mayhem.  

A religion that teaches celibacy (for life) is not interpreting the Word correctly.  They've taken a truth, and expanded on it, and twisted it to where it no more resembles the original Script than a comic book.  This is common in many so called "Christian movements".

Jcribb has said it well, as it's been said many times before.  You can't lump all Christians or believers in your negative perception of any group that titles themselves as Christian.  Calling myself a dress designer, doesn't make it so, if all I can do is mend socks.
  
Thanks, Annella!!!  Welcome back!!!!!!!!   :D
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 23, 2010, 10:18:56 pm
Quote
Thanks, Annella!!!  Welcome back!!!!!!!!

Thank you Jcribb :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 23, 2010, 10:26:41 pm
I'm back on US soil.  Be home tomorrow.  In NY tonight.  Good to be back though my friends!

Good to see you back.  I've missed you!


Thank you Amy :heart:


I do my best to speak only the truth as best as I know it!  LOL   :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 01:26:27 am
Quote
you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway
I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across. 

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me? 

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.

I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.   

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  :bs:.  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?

It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 01:27:13 am
Everybody has a moral center that tells them right from wrong....no matter what you believe, or what religion you claim.....or don't claim.  We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).  Whether I believed in God or not, there are unspoken rules I adhere to because I'm......human.

You can call yourself any religion you like, but until you bear and put forth fruit that is spiritually and morally acceptable by both God and man.....your a fake.  The parable of the wheat and tares in the Bible is a good example of those calling themselves Christians, and all they are.....are phony's.  There are those in various religions and sects that give Christianity a bad name.  The tares looked like Christians, but misused the Word of God.  They use Christianity for a cloak of deceit to work mayhem.  

A religion that teaches celibacy (for life) is not interpreting the Word correctly.  They've taken a truth, and expanded on it, and twisted it to where it no more resembles the original Script than a comic book.  This is common in many so called "Christian movements".

Jcribb has said it well, as it's been said many times before.  You can't lump all Christians or believers in your negative perception of any group that titles themselves as Christian.  Calling myself a dress designer, doesn't make it so, if all I can do is mend socks.
  

So true :0) Nice to have you back!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 24, 2010, 03:20:10 am
Thank you Mackenzie :heart:  I'll be on the last leg of my journey in a couple hours.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 06:44:59 am
We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).

Ha!  Every time I see another incorrect cliche like this, it's demonstrated how little people really know about their religion compared to society at large.  Recap, folks:

Our First Ammendment VIOLATES the First Commandment.  You know, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"?  How about, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?  That's a diss to god if I ever saw one.   ;D

Commandments Two (graven images), Three (take god's name in vain), Four (Sabbath), Five (honor parents), Seven (adultery), Ten (coveting) are NOT laws...in fact, #2 again violates the First Amendment; many people work on Friday/Saturday/Sunday; you shouldn't have to respect your parents if they were sh*theads who abused you; and #10 is actually detrimental to the economy if followed.

The three Commandments that actually are U.S. law: don't kill, don't steal, don't commit perjury.  Wow...3 out of (at least) 10??  Not going for a high score, I guess.

And just a quick history lesson: Hammurabi's Code predates the Bible by at least 1,000 years and contains all three of those laws.  So no, you don't get to claim that the Bible has ANYTHING to do with our laws.

And FYI: If you followed just a fraction of the 600+ commandments in the Bible, you'd find your butt in jail and/or be given the death penalty.  Good thing you just ignore those unpleasant ones, eh?

Good video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxwzic3gbgU
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: sheenu on September 24, 2010, 06:50:57 am
 ::) :dontknow:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 06:54:29 am
I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones.

Y'all really get yourself into a pickle with this "free will" thing.  So what you're saying is god cares more about the rapist's free will than Amy's.  Before someone explodes in anger, think about it -- Amy presumably has "free will" too, and it is violating HER free will to be raped.  So god cares more about the rapist's free will by default by standing back and doing nothing.

You all know that would have to be the case if there were a Biblegod, you just don't want to admit it.   :o
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 24, 2010, 07:12:56 am
The exchange between amyrouse and Survey Mack is a perfect example of things that get 'rattled off' when they have become ingrained and rote, random comments from ANY religion. Right, wrong, or otherwise, when I read Survey Mack's reply to the situation with Amy and her rapist, I was immediately angered also by how flippant it came across. It was evidently NOT intended that way, but my hackles went up! It was not my place to get into the middle of it, I am simply voicing my opinion here. But as queen pointed out, it's so easy to "get yourself into a pickle with this "free will" thing."

The 'free will' concept is too often used as a 'bandaid' to cover deplorable actions by humans and I find that in itself deplorable. The story of Adam and Eve cannot be used as the first example of it either because they had no concept of will period, so how can it be deemed 'free will'?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 07:31:45 am
God does nothing because of Free Will.

Then why the hell does anyone pray?  Because whatever you're praying for would interrupt someone else's free will.  Logical fail, go!

Quote
Sure she didn't want to be raped but the man was stronger...if God stopped that then I am sure he would stop everything else and there would be no free will.

That is such a cop-out for an incompetent god.  Any GOOD parent will try their best to prevent their child from being hurt (fingers in light socket, abusive boyfriend), or hurting themselves (drugs, skipping homework).  That is interfering with the kid's "free will" while still allowing them to "not be a robot" (like Xtians love to claim)!!!  If mere humans can do this and are EXPECTED to, why can't god? 

Hmm, maybe because he's not there...?   :P
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: cwoodard34 on September 24, 2010, 11:02:37 am
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 11:36:41 am
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are

Please actually read the whole thread before you respond.  lol
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: tzs on September 24, 2010, 11:47:01 am
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are
wow, that was retarded!!

sorry, couldnt resist!!!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 01:50:09 pm
I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones.

Y'all really get yourself into a pickle with this "free will" thing.  So what you're saying is god cares more about the rapist's free will than Amy's.  Before someone explodes in anger, think about it -- Amy presumably has "free will" too, and it is violating HER free will to be raped.  So god cares more about the rapist's free will by default by standing back and doing nothing.

You all know that would have to be the case if there were a Biblegod, you just don't want to admit it.   :o

I almost don't want to respond because I feel like everything I say is being warped...apparently I'm just got getting my point across very well. I simply meant, God was not going to reach down grab her and remove her from the situation because he does not do that. He does not physically grab up someone and place them somewhere else. I wasn't trying to say she in any way caused the rape or that it was her fault AT ALL, suprisingly enough I'm not THAT hateful. I would never say that and would like to reiterate again that I was ONLY addressing the question of free will. God gives us all a choice. We choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing. That man chose to do the wrong thing. Period. Furthermore, I NEVER said God cared more about his free will than hers and don't know where that came from? That doesn't make sense to me at all...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 24, 2010, 02:03:00 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.

The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.

Christians and non-believers all have the same free will.  God is not responsible. Every time something bad happens, society is the first to put the responsibility on God. These answers are incorrect. Why? (There’s that question again!) Because if these allegations against God are true, then God is a mass murderer, baby killer, rapist, traffic lawbreaker, terrorist, airplane hijacker, and everything else our imaginative minds can think of. Every time we have a problem in our lives, it is not God’s fault. God only provides good.

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist. Before placing the blame of something evil and tragic on God, think about it. Why would a loving God ever want to harm anyone? And never forget, the most asked question in the universe is “Why?” The most unanswered question, unfortunately, is also “Why?” In this case, the answer may be our misuse of free will.
(Courtesy and help from "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America")
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 02:21:42 pm
Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 24, 2010, 02:51:40 pm
I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

It is common to hear opponents of God’s sovereignty in salvation say that lack of free will produces robots or puppets. The underlying assumption in such thinking is that there are two basic choices: human freedom or God’s intervention. But, that’s a false assumption. The Bible is quite plain that all of mankind falls into one of two camps: sons of God or sons of the devil. In other words, if God does not pull your strings, you are not simply “morally neutral,” implementing your own plans and designs for your life. If God is not in charge of your life, then Satan is. Someone’s pulling your strings, either way.
 http://goshareyourfaith.wordpress.com/resources/reformed-doctrine/does-the-bible-teach-free-will/

This only a small portion of text and, for those interested, I recommend reading the whole thing. I'm pretty sure the skeptics are not going to like this but this post isn't intended for them. It is part of the research I have come across in trying to learn more about the issue. This might be an interesting read to believers.

I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 24, 2010, 03:03:11 pm
Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?
I was mainly speaking of adults, here, regarding free will (personal choice.)  I agree about the children, though - obviously they need parents/guardians, etc. to make choices for them until they can make their own choices, a little at a time, and then as an adult.
 
God doesn't have a problem, people do.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 03:20:23 pm
I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

Quote
I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 24, 2010, 03:22:41 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 24, 2010, 03:49:44 pm
We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).

Ha!  Every time I see another incorrect cliche like this, it's demonstrated how little people really know about their religion compared to society at large.  Recap, folks:

Our First Ammendment VIOLATES the First Commandment.  You know, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"?  How about, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?  That's a diss to god if I ever saw one.   ;D

Commandments Two (graven images), Three (take god's name in vain), Four (Sabbath), Five (honor parents), Seven (adultery), Ten (coveting) are NOT laws...in fact, #2 again violates the First Amendment; many people work on Friday/Saturday/Sunday; you shouldn't have to respect your parents if they were sh*theads who abused you; and #10 is actually detrimental to the economy if followed.

The three Commandments that actually are U.S. law: don't kill, don't steal, don't commit perjury.  Wow...3 out of (at least) 10??  Not going for a high score, I guess.

And just a quick history lesson: Hammurabi's Code predates the Bible by at least 1,000 years and contains all three of those laws.  So no, you don't get to claim that the Bible has ANYTHING to do with our laws.

And FYI: If you followed just a fraction of the 600+ commandments in the Bible, you'd find your butt in jail and/or be given the death penalty.  Good thing you just ignore those unpleasant ones, eh?

Good video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxwzic3gbgU


As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).  "In God We Trust" is on our money.  We did have prayers in the schools at one time.  We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.  Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.  However, those are being attacked everyday and are trying to be done away with.

As far as using the Commandments as the only source for the foundation of law and order was never said by me.  I reiterate the Bible as a whole, had a lot to do with the forming of our great Nation.  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded.  Since you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, this is wasted on you.  However, today, this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries.  Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 04:01:07 pm
There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.

The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.

Christians and non-believers all have the same free will.  God is not responsible. Every time something bad happens, society is the first to put the responsibility on God. These answers are incorrect. Why? (There’s that question again!) Because if these allegations against God are true, then God is a mass murderer, baby killer, rapist, traffic lawbreaker, terrorist, airplane hijacker, and everything else our imaginative minds can think of. Every time we have a problem in our lives, it is not God’s fault. God only provides good.

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist. Before placing the blame of something evil and tragic on God, think about it. Why would a loving God ever want to harm anyone? And never forget, the most asked question in the universe is “Why?” The most unanswered question, unfortunately, is also “Why?” In this case, the answer may be our misuse of free will.
(Courtesy and help from "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America")

Ah! Thank you! This is the point I've been trying to make but could not get the right words in quite the right order haha
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 04:10:06 pm
Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?
Well that's a different issue...that's parents teaching their kids right from wrong, implementing morals and values, and watching over them as they learn the difference between what is and isn't safe...it's not hindering their free will?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 04:11:12 pm
I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

Quote
I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.
When does God find car keys?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 24, 2010, 04:38:26 pm
We did not "invent" free will.  The Bible is full of scripture telling us to choose the good and not the evil.  Reading these scriptures tells us we have free will given to us by our Creator.  Because we have "chosen" to follow Christ, he recognized us as doing so, and there are benefits and blessings attached to that decision.  We are not better than anyone else.....just blessed, and passed from death to life. 

Does that make our life perpetually perfect.  Absolutely not.  I know just as many Christians with cancer, financial problems, family problems, ect.  It doesn't automatically put us in the position to "dodge the bullet" in life, but to recover if shot.....with hope.

This is not accepted by you because you do not believe the Bible.  It's accepted by us because we do.  You have exercised your free will by not believing the Bible.....knock yourself out.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 24, 2010, 05:34:12 pm



  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded. 

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries. 


[/quote]http://www.danielnpaul.com/DoctrineOfDiscovery.html
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 24, 2010, 05:36:48 pm
I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

Quote
I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.

God can intervene when it comes to rape. But additionally, the bible never said nothing bad will ever happen to you. In fact suffering is required for us to grow spiritually. It is through our trials that we mature and grow stronger against adversity.

James 1:2-3
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
 
Romans 5:1-4
 1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 24, 2010, 05:57:11 pm



  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded. 

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries. 


http://www.danielnpaul.com/DoctrineOfDiscovery.html
[/quote]

I am confused. Walks, are you saying those were NOT Annella's words, but from the source YOU put down? Interesting....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 24, 2010, 06:00:31 pm



  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded. 

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries. 


http://www.danielnpaul.com/DoctrineOfDiscovery.html

I am confused. Walks, are you saying those were NOT Annella's words, but from the source YOU put down? Interesting....
[/quote]No not at all, those were her words, and she is totally right on the target, and the link just goes to bear that out.

Sorry for the confusion. I kinna got over zealous when deleting all the blah blah blah from her post.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 24, 2010, 06:13:28 pm
Gotcha - I wasn't making the connection with the link you had.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 24, 2010, 06:24:07 pm
Gotcha - I wasn't making the connection with the link you had.
Ya gotta learn to speak "Walks" JDog, LOL, I just know its going to be the official language one day soon ;0)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 24, 2010, 06:30:52 pm
Gotcha - I wasn't making the connection with the link you had.
Ya gotta learn to speak "Walks" JDog, LOL, I just know its going to be the official language one day soon ;0)
;) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 24, 2010, 07:48:08 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
I am God's child, you aren't, according to your non-belief.  I haven't missed any point here.  People are the ones who have problems with certain beliefs, etc.  I am simply saying God does not have a problem by not intervening like you are insinuating he should.  We are adults and have our own personal choices that we can make (same as "free will" that you think was invented by Christianity.)  If God intervened all the time, then we would be useless as our own person/s and He should have just gone ahead and made us perfect like Him. But, no, He made us all different, and gives us the opportunity to choose right or wrong, whether or not they are smart choices or foolish. He is like our Father, in that we are in His good graces when we make smart choices, and are disciplined when we make foolish choices.  These foolish choices can mess up other people's lives as well, such as running a red light, colliding with another car, and injuring/killing themselves or other strangers. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 24, 2010, 07:52:15 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
I am God's child, you aren't, according to your non-belief. 
***raises hand*** UHHHHH 'scuse me.....I haven't read the whole conversation here(shame on me) but does non-belief, in this instance, mean, don't believe in "God" or don't believe in "your God"?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 24, 2010, 07:58:14 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
I am God's child, you aren't, according to your non-belief. 
***raises hand*** UHHHHH 'scuse me.....I haven't read the whole conversation here(shame on me) but does non-belief, in this instance, mean, don't believe in "God" or don't believe in "your God"?

Yes, shame on you, you haven't read the whole thread.  (kinda lol)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 24, 2010, 08:06:21 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
I am God's child, you aren't, according to your non-belief. 
***raises hand*** UHHHHH 'scuse me.....I haven't read the whole conversation here(shame on me) but does non-belief, in this instance, mean, don't believe in "God" or don't believe in "your God"?

Yes, shame on you, you haven't read the whole thread.  (kinda lol)
***hangs head and mopes to the corner for time out***
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 24, 2010, 10:33:49 pm
 :sad1:

Whoa, whoa there, my fellow US citizens...this country was not, I repeat NOT founded as a Christian nation...

Go here: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html and really read the constitution.  Mention of religion?  Article VI where it says: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.  Here is the original oath of office administered to George Washington: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.  http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/pihtml/pioaths.html

Then, not again until the First Amendment. 

In fact, in Article IV, Section 4, it reads:  The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.  What is meant by a Republican form of Government?  Check this out, by my man Plato http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

So, how can we explain "In G-d we trust" and "One Nation, Under g-d"? 

In 1942, there was an Act of Congress establishing the pledge of Allegiance.  Twelve years later, in 1954 "under g-d" was added.  "In G-d we Trust" became the national motto in, surprise surprise, 1956.  Something important to remember about this time period in our history is that during this time, there was something going on called the Cold War and the scare tactics of a man named Joseph McCarthy.

The most important thing to remember, though, about our country's origins is the fact that the colonists came here looking for religious freedom.  So, why would men that were concerned with being able to worship their faith freely try to impose upon this new country of theirs a religious dogma?  Our founding fathers were men who had religious faith; however, they were very careful to say "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  American citizens can worship any way they want to, as long as they are peaceable about it.  This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.


...and thank you, Jordandog and queenofnines for your your statements on the other topics in this thread.   :thumbsup:


...uh, and incidentally, I'm one of g-d's children, too.  In fact, I'm one of g-d's chosen people.  I'm also the one that brought up the topic in the first place (after Jordandog) of why would g-d deliver a warning instead of removing one of g-d's children from harm.  I'm sure any parent would intervene on behalf of their child should they have the opportunity and ability to do so.

...and it still sounds like a bunch of victim blaming going on here in this thread. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 24, 2010, 10:34:57 pm
Come back, Walks. I'm sure you had the right thought with that question. Yes, he was referring to his personal deity and how you aren't affiliated with the christian-business contract.

Edit: Thanks for the info, Aye-meh.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 24, 2010, 10:46:43 pm
hahahahaha
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 24, 2010, 11:11:33 pm
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...
I am God's child, you aren't, according to your non-belief. 
***raises hand*** UHHHHH 'scuse me.....I haven't read the whole conversation here(shame on me) but does non-belief, in this instance, mean, don't believe in "God" or don't believe in "your God"?

Yes, shame on you, you haven't read the whole thread.  (kinda lol)
***hangs head and mopes to the corner for time out***
You don't need to go there!  You're a great sport! LOL :)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 24, 2010, 11:34:27 pm
Edit: Thanks for the info, Aye-meh.

Do I smell sarcasm or genuine gratitude?  LOL
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 12:45:16 am
Quote
The most important thing to remember, though, about our country's origins is the fact that the colonists came here looking for religious freedom.  So, why would men that were concerned with being able to worship their faith freely try to impose upon this new country of theirs a religious dogma?  Our founding fathers were men who had religious faith; however, they were very careful to say "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  American citizens can worship any way they want to, as long as they are peaceable about it.  This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

Oh come on!  I expect better from you Amy!  Didn't you say that all religious movements were not the same.  Seems you want to blame any religious groups for everything.  KKK?  Oh yeah, I got a white sheet on my bed, and a rope in my garage, and enough wood to make a wooden cross.....does that mean anything?  Just being funny ;) 

Yes, Colonists came here looking for religious freedom, and from the bondage of the church of England which they were forced to attend and adhere to according to the policy and laws of England.  Yes, that's why the Constitution was written as it was (Freedom of Religion).  As far as our country being founded on Christian principles.  It was.  Okay, maybe the "In God We Trust", or the "Nation under God came later.  I don't really know because I'll admit to not studying that out.  I have however, studied history, and read many Bios of our founding fathers (drafted the Constitution).  Ninety percent of them were deeply religious men, and some were even clergy.  George Washington always made mention of God and His favor in letters to Martha while on the field of battle.

Your are right.  The Hebrews are God's first chosen people.  However, the Bible also says that God is no respecter of persons.  In other words, no one race is better than the other.  However, I've seen the Jews down at the Kotel, and praying 3 times a day in Israel....it put me to shame.  Your heritage is rich and full of natural blessings, but we as gentiles have had a chance to enter into God's blessings also.  We are "grafted in" the main Olive tree, and enjoy the same blessings as heirs to Salvation.  We are also called "Children of Abraham".
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 01:28:09 am
Quote
The most important thing to remember, though, about our country's origins is the fact that the colonists came here looking for religious freedom.  So, why would men that were concerned with being able to worship their faith freely try to impose upon this new country of theirs a religious dogma?  Our founding fathers were men who had religious faith; however, they were very careful to say "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  American citizens can worship any way they want to, as long as they are peaceable about it.  This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

Oh come on!  I expect better from you Amy!  Didn't you say that all religious movements were not the same.  Seems you want to blame any religious groups for everything.  KKK?  Oh yeah, I got a white sheet on my bed, and a rope in my garage, and enough wood to make a wooden cross.....does that mean anything?  Just being funny ;) 

Yes, Colonists came here looking for religious freedom, and from the bondage of the church of England which they were forced to attend and adhere to according to the policy and laws of England.  Yes, that's why the Constitution was written as it was (Freedom of Religion).  As far as our country being founded on Christian principles.  It was.  Okay, maybe the "In God We Trust", or the "Nation under God came later.  I don't really know because I'll admit to not studying that out.  I have however, studied history, and read many Bios of our founding fathers (drafted the Constitution).  Ninety percent of them were deeply religious men, and some were even clergy.  George Washington always made mention of God and His favor in letters to Martha while on the field of battle.

Your are right.  The Hebrews are God's first chosen people.  However, the Bible also says that God is no respecter of persons.  In other words, no one race is better than the other.  However, I've seen the Jews down at the Kotel, and praying 3 times a day in Israel....it put me to shame.  Your heritage is rich and full of natural blessings, but we as gentiles have had a chance to enter into God's blessings also.  We are "grafted in" the main Olive tree, and enjoy the same blessings as heirs to Salvation.  We are also called "Children of Abraham".


I don't believe I made any inference there that all religious groups are the same.  I mentioned the KKK because I wholeheartedly do not agree with them...yet they still have religious freedom.  I also said that the founding fathers were men who had religious faith.  I do not deny this.  I do believe wholeheartedly, though, through my study that they worded the constitution the way they did for a reason.  They were not trying to deny the importance of religion but rather not deem one religion to be more important than another.  Also, it is important to keep religion and governance separate.  That is why there is no religious test to take office and that is what the First Amendment is about...not freedom from religion but the freedom to practice what you believe how you believe without harming others.

I am a deeply religious person, and have seriously considered and researched what it would take to become a rabbi.  I am also a political scientist with a degree in this field of study.  I've studied it in depth and I've found that, yes, the founding fathers were religious, but they were still adamant about not establishing any specific religion in this country. 

How am I trying to blame religious groups here?  Please point it out so I can rectify that miscommunication.

The reason I brought up the "g-d's child" and "chosen people" thing was because of a comment made on here that non-believers were not g-d's children.  I am not any less g-d's child than any Christian debating on this forum (and I am the one whose rape is in question)...and neither is a non-believer.  One does not have to be Jewish/Christian/religious to be in g-d's good graces...I am actually in the process of discussing the Noachide Laws with my rabbi and what it means for gentiles.  In fact, any parent does not stop loving their child even if their child disowns them.  I know the atheists and agnostics of this thread will garner little comfort from that, but I believe it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 01:54:46 am
Quote
This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

I took the above quote from you and made a joke about it. ;D  There have been statements lumping all Christians into one pot for the cause of blaming Christians in general for the worlds woes, or why their people have not progressed.  You have not done that.

I made no inference to make you think I'm calling you on your statement of being God's chosen people.  Please don't take offense to my last paragraph.  It was just a statement of fact from a Biblical standpoint....nothing more. I've been to Israel, and seen the devotion the Jews have toward God.  I was deeply convicted knowing my devotion fell short.  It seems I offended you in my last paragraph, and that was NOT my intention at all......I apologize

On the plane coming into Israel one morning, I witnessed some Jews, get up in the aisle and point toward East and pray with their tallits on, and their prayer books.  It made a very lasting impression on me.  Their love and devotion to God was evident, and they didn't care who saw them, or what people thought of them.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 02:03:34 am
I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  
I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  
One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...
So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...
HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.
I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  :bs:.  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?
It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 02:08:30 am
Quote
This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

I took the above quote from you and made a joke about it. ;D  There have been statements lumping all Christians into one pot for the cause of blaming Christians in general for the worlds woes, or why their people have not progressed.  You have not done that.

I made no inference to make you think I'm calling you on your statement of being God's chosen people.  Please don't take offense to my last paragraph.  It was just a statement of fact from a Biblical standpoint....nothing more. I've been to Israel, and seen the devotion the Jews have toward God.  I was deeply convicted knowing my devotion fell short.  It seems I offended you in my last paragraph, and that was NOT my intention at all......I apologize

On the plane coming into Israel one morning, I witnessed some Jews, get up in the aisle and point toward East and pray with their tallits on, and their prayer books.  It made a very lasting impression on me.  Their love and devotion to God was evident, and they didn't care who saw them, or what people thought of them.


Ahh...didn't realize you were making a joke.  I freaked out for a minute there thinking that I'd upset you!  And I'm more than willing to further explain anything I've said because I hate the animosity miscommunication can garner.  I'll do anything I can to rectify a mistake if I've made one.   :thumbsup:

You'll be interested to know that I spent Shabbat Shuvah at a temple I usually don't attend...and I was amazed.  I was afraid that the first time I ventured outside of my "home base" that I'd be uncomfortable, lost, and confused...but I wasn't!  Talk about a confirmation of faith.  The strangest thing, too...after services, the rabbi came up to me and told me she had enjoyed watching me sing.  Still not sure what to think about that!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 02:20:30 am
I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  
I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  
One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...
So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...
HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.
I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  :bs:.  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?
It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.

Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 02:38:10 am
Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 

In all honesty...since Mackenzie has been on here, I personally have felt that she has dished nothing but contempt and a defensive attitude toward me...no matter how I try to act toward her.  I just lost it when she said what she said and then attacked me for it...because she did attack me.  Even in her last paragraph her words are harsh and non-apologetic.

I'm pretty sure that sleep will hit you like a brick wall soon...and you'll get that nice 20 hour nap that I can only dream about...LOL
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 03:05:16 am
Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 

In all honesty...since Mackenzie has been on here, I personally have felt that she has dished nothing but contempt and a defensive attitude toward me...no matter how I try to act toward her.  I just lost it when she said what she said and then attacked me for it...because she did attack me.  Even in her last paragraph her words are harsh and non-apologetic.

I'm pretty sure that sleep will hit you like a brick wall soon...and you'll get that nice 20 hour nap that I can only dream about...LOL

Yes, everybody must take responsibility for their actions.  However, we all miscommunicate into words what we are really feeling or what we may try to convey to someone else's post.  I've certainly pissed off people and had No intention of doing so.

I write Bible Study literature that is published by our publishing house....and it's strictly scripture, and interpretation, with more scripture (factual).  I'm very matter of fact (my Grandma was also).  I think working for the Gov't., only added to my writing style.  Dossiers are only factual incantations of the individuals.  The facts, and nothing but the facts Jack...lol

The written word is powerful, used either for good or bad.  Everybody should keep that in mind when posting to someone who has pushed a button.  If anyone on here suffered something devastating, I have to believe that everyone on here would rally around that person, no matter what they believe.  I could be wrong....but I hope that's the case.

Time to raid the fridge. :P

Oh if only.....zzzzzz for 20 hours.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 25, 2010, 03:15:43 am
I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  
I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  
One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...
So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  :bs:

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...
HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.
I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  :bs:.  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?
It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.

I thought this discussion was done with. I felt I made it clear that I was in no way even addressing that you had been raped. I was simply addressing that free will applies to all people good and evil...I'm sorry that you ever in any way felt that I was justifying your rapist's actions. I was absolutely not trying to do that as I reiterated many times. Honestly, I purposely only responded to the part of your comment addressing free will because I felt I had no place to talk with you about something so personal. I do stand by my words that everyone has free will, however I did not mean for you to in any way feel like I was saying you were at fault for what happened to you.

Regarding the next part of your post, I don't get defensive when someone disagrees with me. I get defensive when I feel my words are twisted, when people are rude, or absolutely intolerant of other's thoughts. Before this gets misread, I am not directing those things towards you. However, I'm sure you're referring to other threads where I have probable seemed to get riled up. I do get defensive when trying to have a conversation about religion and I am openly respectful towards the beliefs of atheists, I disagree with them mind you but respect them nonetheless, only to have a select few tell me how utterly ignorant and unintelligent I am to have faith in a higher power. After a while responding nicely repeatedly doesn't get the point across, especially when they often take things out of context and just look for ways to twist words. I have gotten riled up in other threads, not because I disagree with people just because of the way they go about addressing my beliefs. I have a short fuse, but I tend to stay calm until someone is absolutely rude for no reason or until I feel like I have been attacked.

Earlier I did feel somewhat attacked when you responded harshly, so I responded back to you in the same way. Not because I disagreed with you about free will, but because I in no way even meant to address your rape and was only trying to address the free will aspect of it. I should have removed the rest of it from the quote, but I didn't and that's my fault. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong however. What I said was not wrong, it was simply a miscommunication that happens when talking on a computer rather than with words. Again, I wasn't addressing your rape and apologize if your feelings were hurt when you thought so. Aside from that, your perception of me is a bit wrong, I'm not a negative defensive person, however if that's your opinion of me I'm fine with that and take no disheartening from it. After all none of us really know each other all too well from talking on a forum, and I often have trouble getting my point across without  being able to express what tone I'm saying things in. Anyway I have gone totally off the topic so I will go ahead and end this post before I continue rambling haha.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 25, 2010, 03:20:26 am
Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 


I did rectify what was interpreted wrong, but you took that as simply "rationalizing." I'm not quite sure what else can possibly be said. I NEVER said it was your fault you were raped, nor would I ever say it was anyone's fault they were raped. I'm not rationalizing, I'm telling you that's not what I meant because it isn't. If it was I would stick by it which I feel is clear from all other threads I've responded to.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 03:39:40 am
I thought this discussion was done with. I felt I made it clear that I was in no way even addressing that you had been raped. I was simply addressing that free will applies to all people good and evil...I'm sorry that you ever in any way felt that I was justifying your rapist's actions. I was absolutely not trying to do that as I reiterated many times. Honestly, I purposely only responded to the part of your comment addressing free will because I felt I had no place to talk with you about something so personal. I do stand by my words that everyone has free will, however I did not mean for you to in any way feel like I was saying you were at fault for what happened to you.

Regarding the next part of your post, I don't get defensive when someone disagrees with me. I get defensive when I feel my words are twisted, when people are rude, or absolutely intolerant of other's thoughts. Before this gets misread, I am not directing those things towards you. However, I'm sure you're referring to other threads where I have probable seemed to get riled up. I do get defensive when trying to have a conversation about religion and I am openly respectful towards the beliefs of atheists, I disagree with them mind you but respect them nonetheless, only to have a select few tell me how utterly ignorant and unintelligent I am to have faith in a higher power. After a while responding nicely repeatedly doesn't get the point across, especially when they often take things out of context and just look for ways to twist words. I have gotten riled up in other threads, not because I disagree with people just because of the way they go about addressing my beliefs. I have a short fuse, but I tend to stay calm until someone is absolutely rude for no reason or until I feel like I have been attacked.

Earlier I did feel somewhat attacked when you responded harshly, so I responded back to you in the same way. Not because I disagreed with you about free will, but because I in no way even meant to address your rape and was only trying to address the free will aspect of it. I should have removed the rest of it from the quote, but I didn't and that's my fault. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong however. What I said was not wrong, it was simply a miscommunication that happens when talking on a computer rather than with words. Again, I wasn't addressing your rape and apologize if your feelings were hurt when you thought so. Aside from that, your perception of me is a bit wrong, I'm not a negative defensive person, however if that's your opinion of me I'm fine with that and take no disheartening from it. After all none of us really know each other all too well from talking on a forum, and I often have trouble getting my point across without  being able to express what tone I'm saying things in. Anyway I have gone totally off the topic so I will go ahead and end this post before I continue rambling haha.

It has been a long night of wills for me where my two year old is concerned, so while it may appear that I have been online for awhile, I haven't really.  Plus, if something bothers me, it will eat at me until I figure out what I need to say to get it off my chest.  Annella has witnessed this same thing from me in the past.  I have a tendency to sit on something at times rather than say something I may regret...however, this is not the way it is at all times with me, and I do fly off the handle.  I try to own it and apologize when I do this.

I believe that words are the most powerful tools and weapons known to humankind...therefore, I try to be as careful as possible when using words.  Scripture says that the universe was created by the power of words (whether or not the universe was created that way, I do not know, but the validity of the strength of words is there), and the most powerful experiences I feel with regards to my religion are when I speak the same words that were spoken in biblical times.  So I want to do my utmost to explain myself here...my words are all I have to do so.

I have said before and I'll say it again: I think you're a pretty smart cookie.  Lord knows how its going to look when you've completed college...and once you've spent a few years outside of school, either with a family or a career, I'm sure you'll be a force to be reckoned with.  Its not often you'll see a 19 year old hold her own in political and religious discussion.  You actually remind me of a conservative version of myself when I was in college.  Now...whether or not I agree with you on the topics is beside the point...I try my best to not base my interpretation of a person's character on whether or not they disagree with me.

To make a long post short, thank you for your apology.  Sometimes things being said in the simplest terms are the most powerful.   :thumbsup:


As for the rationalization part...you skirted the issue until I called you out on it.  You did everything but apologize for the mistake. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 06:40:51 am
Quote
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are
Quote
Please actually read the whole thread before you respond.  lol
Quote
wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldnt resist!!!

Hey you need to be a bit nicer.  That was a newbie and you were rude for no reason.  Anyone can post anywhere they want qon.  What they posted was totally on point and pertinent to the subject of the thread.  Unless your lol at the end was meant as a joke?

Tzs, To call someone retarded is not cool under any circumstances.  I wonder if they feel like posting in D&D again. If you can't resist, then maybe you should not be posting until you can obtain some self control.  I realize that you were commenting on qon telling the newbie to read the thread before they posted, but doesn't justify being rude.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 25, 2010, 07:36:11 am
As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).

Correction: Most were Deists...a.k.a. NOT Christians.  There are many quotes where the Founding Fathers are trashing your Christian god!  Are you sure they were on "your side"?  ;)

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"In God We Trust" is on our money.

Not until the '50s due to Communism and anyway, big whoop.  IT STILL VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION.

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We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.

Not in the original pledge, folks.  Geez, are people really this ignorant??

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Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.

No they weren't.  It is you who is denying the secular foundation.  Separation of church and state?  Yeah, you lost that one.

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We were founded on Christian morals and values.

You're going to have to define what you mean here because like I said before, if you followed just a fraction of what the Bible says, you'd get your butt thrown in jail so fast.  Just because the majority of people ascribe to the Christian religion in this country does NOT mean we were founded on "Christian morals and values".  What a completely disgraceful thing to say to all of the people of OTHER religions living in this country.

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this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

You're delusional if you think proper civil rights for all is a bad thing.

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Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 08:32:53 am
As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).

Correction: Most were Deists...a.k.a. NOT Christians.  There are many quotes where the Founding Fathers are trashing your Christian god!  Are you sure they were on "your side"?  ;)

Quote
"In God We Trust" is on our money.

Not until the '50s due to Communism and anyway, big whoop.  IT STILL VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION.

Quote
We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.

Not in the original pledge, folks.  Geez, are people really this ignorant??

Quote
Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.

No they weren't.  It is you who is denying the secular foundation.  Separation of church and state?  Yeah, you lost that one.

Quote
We were founded on Christian morals and values.

You're going to have to define what you mean here because like I said before, if you followed just a fraction of what the Bible says, you'd get your butt thrown in jail so fast.  Just because the majority of people ascribe to the Christian religion in this country does NOT mean we were founded on "Christian morals and values".  What a completely disgraceful thing to say to all of the people of OTHER religions living in this country.

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this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

You're delusional if you think proper civil rights for all is a bad thing.

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Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.


I've answered most of this in another post, so I'll just skim here.  Most of our founding fathers were NOT Deists....I've studied out history, and read most of the Bios of the signers of the DOI, and most were Christians.  Amy who is a Political Science major, among other accomplishments says they were religious followers also.  The early colonists were not Deists either.  Where are you getting your information?

The money, and pledge was addressed in the other post.  Since I did not know when both were added, I admitted so.

Why is my comment that our country was founded on Christian morals a disgrace to other religions?  When our nation was formed, it was the colonists escaping England tyranny for their pursuit of Freedom of Religion.  they wrote it in.  Maybe I'm not understanding your statement.

Civil rights and New World Order are totally different things.  They aren't even in the same category.

I'm talking about countries that have no freedom, except what the recent dictator or so called government decides what is best for them.  Just because you've been in European countries doesn't mean you've been in any I'm talking about.  How about some Middle Eastern countries?  Communist controlled countries?  Not just to visit, actually live there?  So.....where were you living?  I find it hard to believe you lived in 20 countries in 2.5 years.  yes, I've heard you talk about the statistics about how some Athiestic countries are so much happier than Christian ones.  You got the stats on that and how they were evaluated?  I would be highly interested in reading that report and who put it out.

I don't appreciate being called silly, bigoted, arrogant, delusional, deceitful, or ignorant by you qon (I'm adding some of these from another post also that you directed towards me).  I don't know if you have any idea how you come across on this forum.  Your intimidating tactics of posting is rude, and demeaning to whomever your scathing remarks are aimed at.  Not one Christian has done this to you......not one.

If you can't address me in an mature, concise manner, or conduct yourself properly without all the degrading insulting labels, don't expect me to post anything more to you about anything.  I wish Admin. could better monitor some of the rude, degrading responses, and name calling, that get thrown around on these threads.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 25, 2010, 08:48:06 am
Quote from Annella:
Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Quote from queenofnines:
Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.

I want to clarify, queenofnines, God is not being "smeared in your face" on these forums, at least.  The only time it appears that way to you is when you consistently pick apart every sentence (basically) of Christians when they post something back in defense of what they believe in and stand up for it.  I accept your decision as an atheist, but it seems as if you don't accept the fact that we believe in God, and try to intimidate, switch words around, and get aggressive about it.  No wonder it seems like God is being smeared back in your face.  We are trying to show what God's Word says, or other things that we know from history, etc., but we believe in God and live our lives for Him, and will continue to defend our beliefs no matter what you try and turn on us. 

Also, after teaching school for right at twenty years, our country WAS built on Christian and moral principles.  Please stop denying it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 08:51:00 am
For the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

As for Thomas Paine...check out The Age of Reason.  He is usually cited as the most outspoken against religion.

And, queenofnines is correct about the quotes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-47a0EHz_hw

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 09:06:56 am
Quote
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are
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Please actually read the whole thread before you respond.  lol
Quote
wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldnt resist!!!
Hey you need to be a bit nicer.  That was a newbie and you were rude for no reason.  Anyone can post anywhere they want qon.  What they posted was totally on point and pertinent to the subject of the thread.  Unless your lol at the end was meant as a joke?
Tzs, To call someone retarded is not cool under any circumstances.  I wonder if they feel like posting in D&D again. If you can't resist, then maybe you should not be posting until you can obtain some self control.  I realize that you were commenting on qon telling the newbie to read the thread before they posted, but doesn't justify being rude.
   I can't speak for tzs but when I had originally read her post and even now after re-reading it a few times, I honestly do not see "rudeness".  I've read many of her posts and I think she is gifted with a great sense of humor.  I think her ability to make someone laugh is one of the best gifts anyone could have.  In checking out her other posts, her sense of humor & love of fun SHINES.  (If any newbies thinks someone is "rude", they should always check out that person's other posts and get a "feel" for that person's "writing style" because it is hard to decipher in a forum from a short post.)  I think this forum could use more humor & laughter....just my opinion.

Wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldn't resist!!!

How do you think a newbie took this?  I'm sorry Sheryl, I fail to see the humor in calling anyone retarded....even in jest.  That's just me though.  Also, when I was a newbie, I remember my first day in here and how I was treated.  I printed those posts off and saved them.  They are now in the mail though as we speak.  People were extremely kind to me everywhere except in D&D.  The minute I entered into this forum.....wham!!!

Do you notice that hundreds of people read D&D threads, but only a few of us actually post here?  it's the same ones over and over.  Why do you think that is?  I'll quote something someone told me in an email, but won't reveal them.  They said they were scared to post in D&D because of how mean people are in this part of the forum.  That bothers me.  Everyone on FC deserves to post wherever they want, without fear of being belittled etc.

I want everyone to have a chance to post without feeling intimidated.  As a newbie, I didn't know how to go back and read everyone's post to evaluate their personality.

Yes, this post can surely use more fun and more laughter.  Go back and read Amy's and my posts early this morning.  We had no problem having a good time between us.

However....to be fair, I'll go back and read some of Tzs's posts.  If I've judged her humor wrongly, I'm not above apologizing.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 09:11:49 am
Quote from Annella:
Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Quote from queenofnines:
Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.

I want to clarify, queenofnines, God is not being "smeared in your face" on these forums, at least.  The only time it appears that way to you is when you consistently pick apart every sentence (basically) of Christians when they post something back in defense of what they believe in and stand up for it.  I accept your decision as an atheist, but it seems as if you don't accept the fact that we believe in God, and try to intimidate, switch words around, and get aggressive about it.  No wonder it seems like God is being smeared back in your face.  We are trying to show what God's Word says, or other things that we know from history, etc., but we believe in God and live our lives for Him, and will continue to defend our beliefs no matter what you try and turn on us. 

Also, after teaching school for right at twenty years, our country WAS built on Christian and moral principles.  Please stop denying it.

THANK YOU!!  I was beginning to feel like a voice crying in the wilderness.  Obviously you read the same books I did.  Your like the sun popping over the horizon sister!!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 09:14:07 am
For the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

As for Thomas Paine...check out The Age of Reason.  He is usually cited as the most outspoken against religion.

And, queenofnines is correct about the quotes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-47a0EHz_hw



Okay, so according to your first site, they all seemed to have a Christian religion they followed.  My breakdown in the book I have is a bit different. "Chronicles in US History".  Guess where I got it.........in Israel!!!!  lol lol lol  There was the best book shop near the Old City that had the best books.  Religious and otherwise.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 25, 2010, 09:16:07 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 25, 2010, 09:19:42 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)
The record hasn't been set straight yet.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 09:21:09 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)

Did you go to Amy's first site that she posted?  Most of these men were God Fearing.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 25, 2010, 09:22:31 am
Just because you've been in European countries doesn't mean you've been in any I'm talking about.

Hmm, well you didn't say which ones you were talking about.  Did *I* say I've only been to Europe?  No, no I didn't.

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How about some Middle Eastern countries?

Egypt.  Not quite the Middle East, but third-world conditions nonetheless.  And my husband has lived in the Middle East.

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Communist controlled countries?

I plan to visit China soon.

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I find it hard to believe you lived in 20 countries in 2.5 years.

Proof in the pudding that y'all don't read very carefully.  I didn't say I "lived" in 20 countries in 2.5 years!

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I don't appreciate being called silly, bigoted, arrogant, delusional, deceitful, or ignorant by you qon (I'm adding some of these from another post also that you directed towards me).

Well being called "silly" is me being trying to be fake-respectful of a person (that's pretty tame, so what are you complaining about?).  

Bigoted?  No, that was to people with your beliefs about gays in general.  YOU took it personally.  Same thing with arrogant.

Delusional?  Again, I try to keep tabs on outright name-calling.  You'll notice that if I do use a word like this, it's conditional.  You're delusional IF...  I'm sure that makes no difference to you, though.  Being criticized by others is not a nice feeling, especially if they're justified in the criticism.  :(

Deceitful?  I think you just invented that one.  I don't recall saying this a lot.

Ignorant?  Again, this word speaks truth.  Constructive criticism.

Quote
I don't know if you have any idea how you come across on this forum.

Sure I do.  Unlike most people, I've very objective, can get inside people's heads, and thus, know what your perceived opinion is of me.  Again I go back to the point that you're taking the passion and bluntness way too personally.

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Not one Christian has done this to you......not one.

They sure have.  Unless you've been policing all 800 of my posts, I think I have a better idea than you do of how how Christians speak to me and others.  I've had many people tell me they appreciate my posts...and I have plenty of believer friends on here.  Just not you.

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If you can't address me in an mature, concise manner, or conduct yourself properly without all the degrading insulting labels, don't expect me to post anything more to you about anything.

Heh, you sure like to scold strangers don't you, Ms. Judgment?  I highly doubt you'll be able to resist jumping into the discussions I'm involved in, but if by some "miracle" you can, you won't be missed.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 25, 2010, 09:28:27 am
I want to clarify, queenofnines, God is not being "smeared in your face" on these forums, at least.

I meant in America, not the forum.  lol  This is an insanely religious country.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 25, 2010, 09:43:55 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)

Did you go to Amy's first site that she posted?  Most of these men were God Fearing.


Yes, I did, and I am aware that they were/are. That is precisely WHY I said "being almost completely religious in nature."
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 10:10:43 am
Just because you've been in European countries doesn't mean you've been in any I'm talking about.

Hmm, well you didn't say which ones you were talking about.  Did *I* say I've only been to Europe?  No, no I didn't.

Quote
How about some Middle Eastern countries?

Egypt.  Not quite the Middle East, but third-world conditions nonetheless.  And my husband has lived in the Middle East.

Quote
Communist controlled countries?

I plan to visit China soon.

Quote
I find it hard to believe you lived in 20 countries in 2.5 years.

Proof in the pudding that y'all don't read very carefully.  I didn't say I "lived" in 20 countries in 2.5 years!

Quote
I don't appreciate being called silly, bigoted, arrogant, delusional, deceitful, or ignorant by you qon (I'm adding some of these from another post also that you directed towards me).

Well being called "silly" is me being trying to be fake-respectful of a person (that's pretty tame, so what are you complaining about?).  

Bigoted?  No, that was to people with your beliefs about gays in general.  YOU took it personally.  Same thing with arrogant.

Delusional?  Again, I try to keep tabs on outright name-calling.  You'll notice that if I do use a word like this, it's conditional.  You're delusional IF...  I'm sure that makes no difference to you, though.  Being criticized by others is not a nice feeling, especially if they're justified in the criticism.  :(

Deceitful?  I think you just invented that one.  I don't recall saying this a lot.

Ignorant?  Again, this word speaks truth.  Constructive criticism.

Quote
I don't know if you have any idea how you come across on this forum.

Sure I do.  Unlike most people, I've very objective, can get inside people's heads, and thus, know what your perceived opinion is of me.  Again I go back to the point that you're taking the passion and bluntness way too personally.

Quote
Not one Christian has done this to you......not one.

They sure have.  Unless you've been policing all 800 of my posts, I think I have a better idea than you do of how how Christians speak to me and others.  I've had many people tell me they appreciate my posts...and I have plenty of believer friends on here.  Just not you.

Quote
If you can't address me in an mature, concise manner, or conduct yourself properly without all the degrading insulting labels, don't expect me to post anything more to you about anything.

Heh, you sure like to scold strangers don't you, Ms. Judgment?  I highly doubt you'll be able to resist jumping into the discussions I'm involved in, but if by some "miracle" you can, you won't be missed.

Go back and read your own words.  Every title I mentioned was mentioned by you, and aimed at me.  Don't you go back and check what you write?  No matter how you explain away each one, your posts are self explanatory.  As far as inventing anything.....that's an insult......not something I do.

Oh please, your not that important.  The only reason I've posted to you, is when you reply to one of my posts, and dissect every sentence.  Go ahead, and go back and check.....really.  I actually don't have much to say to you because we have nothing in common.  I don't "jump" into your discussions at all.  

Intimidation is a tool used by highly insecure people who want desperately to control.  It's weak character.

Now....can you provide me with the statistics I asked for about the Atheistic countries being happier than Christian ones?  This does highly interest me.

Also, I asked you why my comment of "Our Country was founded on Christian morals and values" was a disgrace to other religions like you stated.  No wait, you said it was a completely disgraceful thing to say to OTHER religions living in this country.  Why is it disgraceful?

When I mentioned a New World Order.  You fired back "Your delusional if you think proper civil rights for all is a bad thing".  Do you even know what a New World Order means?

If you don't want to get called on your intimidating character then stop....easily fixed.
 
When you live in Jordan, United Emirates, China, Syria, Saudi Arabia, from 2-6 months each, then come back and tell me what you perceived there.  Carry your Passport constantly in China, and wear it in a holder under your clothes.  Trust me on this.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 10:15:30 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)

Did you go to Amy's first site that she posted?  Most of these men were God Fearing.



Yes, I did, and I am aware that they were/are. That is precisely WHY I said "being almost completely religious in nature."

Uh, so how did Amy and qon prove their point?  This is a list of our Founding Fathers that were Christians, and were instrumental in forming our new country.  I don't believe Amy disagreed by the way.  After all, she did post the site.  If I remember right, you were on the "nay" side?

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 25, 2010, 10:37:14 am
Intimidation is a tool used by highly insecure people who want desperately to control.  It's weak character.

OR what appears to be "intimidation" can also be the reader not understanding intelligent points.  Which is the case in anything "intimidating" I write on this forum, because I'm most certainly not insecure nor seeking control.  ;)

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Now....can you provide me with the statistics I asked for about the Atheistic countries being happier than Christian ones?  This does highly interest me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

and also directly on their website: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/#/2010/scor

Notice in 2007 and 2008, the U.S. ranked in the top two WORST colors for peace.  Atheistic Europe, on the other hand, has always been green.   ;D

Quote
Why is it disgraceful?

It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

Quote
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: trafficwaveforprofit on September 25, 2010, 10:50:25 am
K-LOVE's Encouraging Word - 1 Timothy 1:14 (NLT) - Saturday, September 25, 2010

Oh, how generous and gracious our Lord was! He filled me with the faith and love that come from Christ Jesus. ~ 1 Timothy 1:14, NLT
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 25, 2010, 10:51:33 am
Quote from Annella:
Why is it disgraceful?

Quote from queenofnines:
It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

No one said they are running our nation - they're too busy trying to stomp Christianity in the ground.  What was said was the country (other than Indians living here) was BUILT on Christian morals and principles.


Quote from Annella
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Quote from queenofnines:
Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.

The New World Order spoken of is NOT delusional.  It is coming and will not be what you want to be a part of.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 25, 2010, 10:52:54 am
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)

Did you go to Amy's first site that she posted?  Most of these men were God Fearing.



Yes, I did, and I am aware that they were/are. That is precisely WHY I said "being almost completely religious in nature."

Uh, so how did Amy and qon prove their point?  This is a list of our Founding Fathers that were Christians, and were instrumental in forming our new country.  I don't believe Amy disagreed by the way.  After all, she did post the site.  If I remember right, you were on the "nay" side?



They both referenced many things that pointed out a difference as to what you had stated, so I guess in my thinking that showed it was NOT all founded on religion.

"If I remember right, you were on the "nay" side?"
Huh? What are you talking about? After your initial post (#242837), I said nothing other than to Walks re a link. I haven't said anything about the founding and/or the Constitution. Unless you mean something else, you better check your memory.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 12:11:31 pm
I just want to thank amyrouse and queen for setting the record straight on the founding of this country. It is way too much for my brain to handle right now, but you both brought out points that immediately went through MY mind last night when I read what was written about it being almost completely 'religious' in nature. TY both. ;)

Did you go to Amy's first site that she posted?  Most of these men were God Fearing.



Yes, I did, and I am aware that they were/are. That is precisely WHY I said "being almost completely religious in nature."

Uh, so how did Amy and qon prove their point?  This is a list of our Founding Fathers that were Christians, and were instrumental in forming our new country.  I don't believe Amy disagreed by the way.  After all, she did post the site.  If I remember right, you were on the "nay" side?



They both referenced many things that pointed out a difference as to what you had stated, so I guess in my thinking that showed it was NOT all founded on religion.

"If I remember right, you were on the "nay" side?"
Huh? What are you talking about? After your initial post (#242837), I said nothing other than to Walks re a link. I haven't said anything about the founding and/or the Constitution. Unless you mean something else, you better check your memory.

Okay, I could have got that wrong.....apology offered.  I feel like I'm "buzzed", as I can't seem to sleep but just 10 or 15 minute intervals.  My jet lag is different from anyone else's I've known.  I most definitely could have made the mistake.  My memory is fried bread at the moment.

I still adhere that our country was founded on Christian principles, morals, and values.  Most of our founding fathers were Christian.  They were not ALL Christian, but MOST were.  The colonists (pilgrims) were definitely Christian and looking for a land where they could worship however the dictates of their hearts spoke to them.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 12:18:04 pm
Quote from Annella:
Why is it disgraceful?

Quote from queenofnines:
It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

No one said they are running our nation - they're too busy trying to stomp Christianity in the ground.  What was said was the country (other than Indians living here) was BUILT on Christian morals and principles.

Quote from Annella
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Quote from queenofnines:
Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.

The New World Order spoken of is NOT delusional.  It is coming and will not be what you want to be a part of.

Thank you Jcribb.  I'm also answering posts on another thread, and I'm getting pretty fried without any real sleep for 26 hours. 

Your posts are so to the point, and much more explanatory than mine. :heart:

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 12:23:44 pm
Intimidation is a tool used by highly insecure people who want desperately to control.  It's weak character.

OR what appears to be "intimidation" can also be the reader not understanding intelligent points.  Which is the case in anything "intimidating" I write on this forum, because I'm most certainly not insecure nor seeking control.  ;)

Quote
Now....can you provide me with the statistics I asked for about the Atheistic countries being happier than Christian ones?  This does highly interest me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

and also directly on their website: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/#/2010/scor

Notice in 2007 and 2008, the U.S. ranked in the top two WORST colors for peace.  Atheistic Europe, on the other hand, has always been green.   ;D

Quote
Why is it disgraceful?

It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

Quote
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.

Hey!  That was uncalled for.  I get your understanding just fine.  You don't have to insult my intelligence.  Honestly qon, why can't you post without being insulting?

Thank you for the sites btw, I'll get to them later.  I'm truly interested who took this poll, and how it came to be evaluated, and the results reached.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 25, 2010, 01:50:51 pm
Quote from Annella:
Why is it disgraceful?

Quote from queenofnines:
It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

No one said they are running our nation - they're too busy trying to stomp Christianity in the ground.  What was said was the country (other than Indians living here) was BUILT on Christian morals and principles.

Quote from Annella
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Quote from queenofnines:
Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.

The New World Order spoken of is NOT delusional.  It is coming and will not be what you want to be a part of.

Thank you Jcribb.  I'm also answering posts on another thread, and I'm getting pretty fried without any real sleep for 26 hours. 

Your posts are so to the point, and much more explanatory than mine. :heart:
Thanks, Annella.  However, yours go into a lot more detail.  I'm just trying to get to the petty points that are being made that either show ignorance or opinionation, or just out-and-out put-down comments that need to be addressed right back.   :star:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 02:04:13 pm
Quote from Annella:
Why is it disgraceful?

Quote from queenofnines:
It's disrespectful and unconstitutional to try and claim that a specific religious dogma should/does run our nation.

No one said they are running our nation - they're too busy trying to stomp Christianity in the ground.  What was said was the country (other than Indians living here) was BUILT on Christian morals and principles.

Quote from Annella
Do you even know what a New World Order means?

Quote from queenofnines:
Of course.  But I'd have to use the word "delusional" again to talk about it.

The New World Order spoken of is NOT delusional.  It is coming and will not be what you want to be a part of.

Thank you Jcribb.  I'm also answering posts on another thread, and I'm getting pretty fried without any real sleep for 26 hours. 

Your posts are so to the point, and much more explanatory than mine. :heart:
Thanks, Annella.  However, yours go into a lot more detail.  I'm just trying to get to the petty points that are being made that either show ignorance or opinionation, or just out-and-out put-down comments that need to be addressed right back.   :star:

My American Lit. Teacher used to tell me that I give good written explanation, but sometimes get bogged down in details.....lol   He pegged me pretty good! ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 25, 2010, 02:53:20 pm
Hey!  That was uncalled for.  I get your understanding just fine.  You don't have to insult my intelligence.  Honestly qon, why can't you post without being insulting?

Why do you take everything I say personally?  The idea of an Anti-christ embodying our American president and leading the world to its demise is crazy talk to anyone who's outside the cult.  That's all.

As for the nation being founded on Christianity, you can go on believing that all you want.  Even if it were true (which it's not), it makes no difference on how we should run our country TODAY.  Religion loves to keep us in the past...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 25, 2010, 02:55:08 pm
Hey!  That was uncalled for.  I get your understanding just fine.  You don't have to insult my intelligence.  Honestly qon, why can't you post without being insulting?

Why do you take everything I say personally?  The idea of an Anti-christ embodying our American president and leading the world to its demise is crazy talk to anyone who's outside the cult.  That's all.

As for the nation being founded on Christianity, you can go on believing that all you want.  Even if it were true (which it's not), it makes no difference on how we should run our country TODAY.  Religion loves to keep us in the past...
Religion needs to stay on the front burner, not in the past....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 03:03:04 pm
Hey!  That was uncalled for.  I get your understanding just fine.  You don't have to insult my intelligence.  Honestly qon, why can't you post without being insulting?

Why do you take everything I say personally?  The idea of an Anti-christ embodying our American president and leading the world to its demise is crazy talk to anyone who's outside the cult.  That's all.

As for the nation being founded on Christianity, you can go on believing that all you want.  Even if it were true (which it's not), it makes no difference on how we should run our country TODAY.  Religion loves to keep us in the past...

How can I not take it personally when you direct your insults towards me.  Cut it out!  Didn't you learn how to be civil as a child or acquire good manners?

Where in the world did you get the Anti-Christ embodying our American President ???  What in world are you talking about?  You made me laugh.....no really....I LOL'd

Thank you, I will go on believing that (because it's true).  I disagree, our country needs all the help and prayer it can get.  How in the world do we keep you in the past?  If that's true then you sure are insinuating we have a lot of power.  Which in a way is true, but it's God's power.  Please enlighten me about how we keep you in the past.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 25, 2010, 03:08:12 pm
Hey!  That was uncalled for.  I get your understanding just fine.  You don't have to insult my intelligence.  Honestly qon, why can't you post without being insulting?

Why do you take everything I say personally?  The idea of an Anti-christ embodying our American president and leading the world to its demise is crazy talk to anyone who's outside the cult.  That's all.

As for the nation being founded on Christianity, you can go on believing that all you want.  Even if it were true (which it's not), it makes no difference on how we should run our country TODAY.  Religion loves to keep us in the past...
Religion needs to stay on the front burner, not in the past....

Absolutely!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 10:56:50 pm
For the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

As for Thomas Paine...check out The Age of Reason.  He is usually cited as the most outspoken against religion.

And, queenofnines is correct about the quotes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-47a0EHz_hw



Okay, so according to your first site, they all seemed to have a Christian religion they followed.  My breakdown in the book I have is a bit different. "Chronicles in US History".  Guess where I got it.........in Israel!!!!  lol lol lol  There was the best book shop near the Old City that had the best books.  Religious and otherwise.



I am, for lack of a better word, envious that you have been to Israel.  I would love to go...and in fact, the first year of rabbinical school is spent in Israel.  The thought of it both scares and excites me.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 25, 2010, 11:11:38 pm
Oh boy...seems I need to do some clarification here.

The founding fathers were mostly spiritual/religious men.  They did not, however, write the constitution with Christian morals in mind.  Much of what is written in the constitution is inspired by Plato's Republic.

I believe, though, that there is someone who discussed religion and politics much better than I could:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzsFXYW38hk
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: sammywantsya on September 26, 2010, 08:53:04 am
That seems to be the way it is on the forums and in life...Yeah, if you believe in God, you're not intelligent...so just die...hahaha well maybe atheists don't want you to die but they will have fun making fun of you.  :wave:

this just show how you can be inconsiderate of other people and there beliefs. respect everyones decisions. your not right either way. very childish to say and very insulting to hear.

so you want people who believes in GOD die? you are forgetting one thing missy they are people too. they have feelings like any other. what makes you feel so different that you have the right to say these things? immature narrow minded...
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 26, 2010, 09:25:46 am
Oh boy...seems I need to do some clarification here.

The founding fathers were mostly spiritual/religious men.  They did not, however, write the constitution with Christian morals in mind.  Much of what is written in the constitution is inspired by Plato's Republic.

Thanks, Amy. That's what I was referring to when I said this in answer to Annella's question about it NOT being all religious in nature: from me-"They both referenced many things that pointed out a difference as to what you had stated, so I guess in my thinking that showed it was NOT all founded on religion."
You and queen both brought up things re the Constitution and that is where I was coming from. ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: sarabtrayior on September 26, 2010, 10:48:30 am
I never considered myself a retard, however, I not only believe in God I am staking my LIFE that God is there and he will always take care of me... does this mean I don't have problems, no, problems are a part of life and I am a stronger person because of those problems. I'm sorry you don't have my strength to believe in something you cannot see and I can't see the air I breath but I believe in it too!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 01:50:23 pm
I never considered myself a retard, however, I not only believe in God I am staking my LIFE that God is there and he will always take care of me... does this mean I don't have problems, no, problems are a part of life and I am a stronger person because of those problems. I'm sorry you don't have my strength to believe in something you cannot see and I can't see the air I breath but I believe in it too!

Welcome to FC.  Hope you make good money.  God Bless You :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 02:36:19 pm
All the colonists that left England's tyranny and bondage, did so because they wanted freedom OF religion.  Not freedom FROM religion.  No matter how you sway it, or muddy the water.  Our Nation started out with Christians living in it.  Most of our founding fathers "practiced" and "followed" a gathering of believers.

Thanksgiving is celebrated because of the bounty of the crops in the new land called America.  We give thanks on that day just like the colonists (Pilgrims) because of the blessings of God on them.  If you study it out, they nearly starved that first year or so, until they could bring in their sowing of crops.  The Pilgrims were deeply religious.  

Our Constitution was written for all people and their rights.  However, the people who came to our great Nation and settled here were God fearing, and lived their lives accordingly.  Nobody can dispute that our first President (good old George) was a deeply religious man.  The colonists were not idol worshippers like some other Nations.  They believed in God.  If only non-believers came to found America, we would have a different Nation than we have today.

While the Constitution denotes Freedom of Religion, it does not dictate what those religions are.  The religions that are listed next to the men, on the site Amy gave, most are Christian in origin, and still practiced today.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 02:49:25 pm
For the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

As for Thomas Paine...check out The Age of Reason.  He is usually cited as the most outspoken against religion.

And, queenofnines is correct about the quotes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-47a0EHz_hw

Okay, so according to your first site, they all seemed to have a Christian religion they followed.  My breakdown in the book I have is a bit different. "Chronicles in US History".  Guess where I got it.........in Israel!!!!  lol lol lol  There was the best book shop near the Old City that had the best books.  Religious and otherwise.

I am, for lack of a better word, envious that you have been to Israel.  I would love to go...and in fact, the first year of rabbinical school is spent in Israel.  The thought of it both scares and excites me.

I'm going again next year.  I want to venture into the Upper Golan Heights this next trip.  Last time, There was unrest, and parts were Arab controlled.  They say it's uniquely beautiful up there.

You need to go and embrace what a rich heritage you have.  Passover in Jerusalem is wonderful.  Once you go, it calls you back again and again.  I find it uncanny that some people are drawn to Israel by some invisible cord, and others have no wish to go at all.  Something resonates within me, and pulls me over there constantly.  I've felt it for years.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 26, 2010, 03:13:37 pm
Quote
founding fathers "practiced" and "followed" a gathering of believers.

I'm not looking for a massive debate here- just your personal take on this. My question to you is would there have ever been a revolutionary war if the founding fathers followed the bible? You may accuse me of taking these out of context or these verses were only to be followed during the time, but I think these speak for themselves-

1 Peter 2:13:  "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Quote
Nobody can dispute that our first President (good old George) was a deeply religious man.

Quite the contrary! I've done a lot of research on this man since he...well...he's such a badass! lol Not to jolt the argument aside here, but George being a religious man is a very debatable subject. Despite fighting for those freedoms, it is my opinion that he wasn't very religious. I've read accounts that he only went to church to please his wife. Other accounts say he frequently went to church during trips just to seem normal among people. And even then he didn't go much-- he was either too busy with business or the distance needed to travel was too far. There were even accounts of him just standing outside of the church during sunday mass and walking around. So yes, completely debatable.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 03:57:01 pm
Quote
founding fathers "practiced" and "followed" a gathering of believers.

I'm not looking for a massive debate here- just your personal take on this. My question to you is would there have ever been a revolutionary war if the founding fathers followed the bible? You may accuse me of taking these out of context or these verses were only to be followed during the time, but I think these speak for themselves-

1 Peter 2:13:  "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Quote
Nobody can dispute that our first President (good old George) was a deeply religious man.

Quite the contrary! I've done a lot of research on this man since he...well...he's such a badass! lol Not to jolt the argument aside here, but George being a religious man is a very debatable subject. Despite fighting for those freedoms, it is my opinion that he wasn't very religious. I've read accounts that he only went to church to please his wife. Other accounts say he frequently went to church during trips just to seem normal among people. And even then he didn't go much-- he was either too busy with business or the distance needed to travel was too far. There were even accounts of him just standing outside of the church during sunday mass and walking around. So yes, completely debatable.

Please check this out.  This shows much of his character and how it depicted Christian quality and a relationship with Christ.  http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.html

 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 26, 2010, 04:18:15 pm
Jcribb, no offense to your beliefs, but I do suggest you look at sources that aren't default-christian and aren't pushing for an anti-christian conspiracy. Washington, among other FF's, was arguably a deist and he only made a few christian claims; most likely to blend in with the nations default religion. He never said anything of christian hopes when he was dying either.

Yet for the current revisionists who have made it their goal to assert that America was founded as a secular nation by secular individuals and that the only hope for America's longevity rests in her continued secularism, George Washington's faith must be sacrificed on the altar of their secularist agenda

 ::) Something like http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/  is definately more legitimate.

Those who attempt to project a religious theology upon Washington often seek to connect theological beliefs with civic benefits, assuming morality is based on religion. In contrast, Madison and others crafted a government that could succeed even if Americans were not angels, thanks to a balance of powers. Jefferson and other "natural law" theorists assumed that individuals in a mature society would follow a common set of ethical principles, independent of the different religious beliefs held by individuals.

Washington was a man focused throughout his life on gaining honor and respect. He acted in public settings with some personal distance, even coldness, to reduce the likelihood of some informality reducing the respect he sought from others. So it is likely that he would desire political leaders today to also earn respect through moral, virtuous behavior - even at some personal cost to their comfort level.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 05:15:49 pm
Quote
founding fathers "practiced" and "followed" a gathering of believers.

I'm not looking for a massive debate here- just your personal take on this. My question to you is would there have ever been a revolutionary war if the founding fathers followed the bible? You may accuse me of taking these out of context or these verses were only to be followed during the time, but I think these speak for themselves-

1 Peter 2:13:  "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Quote
Nobody can dispute that our first President (good old George) was a deeply religious man.

Quite the contrary! I've done a lot of research on this man since he...well...he's such a badass! lol Not to jolt the argument aside here, but George being a religious man is a very debatable subject. Despite fighting for those freedoms, it is my opinion that he wasn't very religious. I've read accounts that he only went to church to please his wife. Other accounts say he frequently went to church during trips just to seem normal among people. And even then he didn't go much-- he was either too busy with business or the distance needed to travel was too far. There were even accounts of him just standing outside of the church during sunday mass and walking around. So yes, completely debatable.

They are taken out of context, but will try to explain the best I can without adding or taking away.  

1 PETER 2:13......talking about a "human institution".  We have laws and rules of the land that we are admonished to obey...i.e. speed, and your going to get a ticket.  We have a Judicial system in place, law enforcement, etc.  These are rulers who enforce the laws of the land.  Then we have the law makers and those above them....on it goes.  We all pay our taxes, etc.  However, those laws do not dictate the laws of a man's soul....God does.  I can give you scripture, that says this.  You don't want a lengthy debate so you let me know..............

ROMANS 13:1  Again this is like above, but with a twist.  If you read further, it points to the Ministers and Authority of the church, and how we should give honor to the leadership and obey them as they Minister the Word to us....IF they fail themselves or teach anything other than Biblical teaching, we are admonished to find someone who does.

That's why Freedom of Religion is so important.  So the Government cannot dictate how we believe and worship God.  It's only the Bible and it's laws set down that we adhere to for our Salvation.  If my Pastor got up and started preaching something not in the Bible, and just took it out of the air....I'M GONE!!  If the Government made one religion and church that dictates we don't teach from the Bible, but only from DC Comics, I would have to follow the Word of God and rebel.  Scripture backs me up in this, as God's law is over man's.

The church of England basically made a law governing which religion everyone MUST adhere to.  It was against some of the laws of God.  The Pilgrims left to secure freedom to worship according to the Word and dictates of their hearts.

Ahab and Jezebel ruled in ancient times.  Jezebel was queen, and a appointed herself high priestess of the church of Idol Worship (Baal). The Hebrew children were told by God to NEVER worship idols.  The law of the land was set down to join the idol church. The Jews refused, and had to worship in secret, or be put to death.  Wasn't long until God sent Elijah and many events found Ahab dead and Jezebel eaten by dogs.

Roman rule vs Christians is another good example.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 26, 2010, 05:35:05 pm
Our Nation started out with Christians living in it.

And all of the Native Americans said Christians murdered.  Err...   :confused1:

Quote
We give thanks on that day just like the colonists (Pilgrims) because of the blessings of God on them.

I don't.  And for many of those who do, Thanksgiving has nothing to do with god and instead is all about tradition and an excuse to gorge yourself, baby!

Quote
the people who came to our great Nation and settled here were God fearing, and lived their lives accordingly.

Yeah, like they actually FOLLOWED the Bible when it came to killing witches and stuff.  They were *much* more "god-fearing" than today's Christians...  My husband doesn't think anybody ACTUALLY believes in god; it's all pretend.  If you ACTUALLY believed in god, you'd live your life quite differently.  Video that explains this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m12mZiiaWuw

Quote
Nobody can dispute that our first President (good old George) was a deeply religious man.

Ready to get pwned?  This was negotiated UNDER George Washington:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. - Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html)

A Reality Check To A Christian Nation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNim0obC1tU
Another Reality Check To A Christian Nation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dEt8bP2Myk
Not Founded On Christian Principles - Thank God!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK0f6fZ9PSY
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 26, 2010, 05:43:08 pm
those laws do not dictate the laws of a man's soul....God does.  If the Government made one religion and church that dictates we don't teach from the Bible, but only from DC Comics, I would have to follow the Word of God and rebel.  Scripture backs me up in this, as God's law is over man's.

Uh-oh!  You see, this kind of talk is EXACTLY why religion is scary.

I watched a funny video recently, "10 Positive Things About Religion" and #2 was: You're only accountable to a non-existent deity - you can get away with anything.  Good comeback when y'all like to try to play the morality card.  ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 26, 2010, 05:57:05 pm
People always talk about 'tyranny in the hands of the government'? That phrase sounds like 'tyranny in the hands of the Christians'. :(
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 26, 2010, 06:23:16 pm
those laws do not dictate the laws of a man's soul....God does.  If the Government made one religion and church that dictates we don't teach from the Bible, but only from DC Comics, I would have to follow the Word of God and rebel.  Scripture backs me up in this, as God's law is over man's.

Uh-oh!  You see, this kind of talk is EXACTLY why religion is scary.

I watched a funny video recently, "10 Positive Things About Religion" and #2 was: You're only accountable to a non-existent deity - you can get away with anything.  Good comeback when y'all like to try to play the morality card.  ;)

Okay, people who believe in God don't feel they are accountable to something nonexistent. They believe they are accountable to the most powerful force, a force that can control where they spend eternity, YOU consider it non-existent, but most Christians are somewhat God-fearing.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 06:30:11 pm
those laws do not dictate the laws of a man's soul....God does.  If the Government made one religion and church that dictates we don't teach from the Bible, but only from DC Comics, I would have to follow the Word of God and rebel.  Scripture backs me up in this, as God's law is over man's.

Uh-oh!  You see, this kind of talk is EXACTLY why religion is scary.

I watched a funny video recently, "10 Positive Things About Religion" and #2 was: You're only accountable to a non-existent deity - you can get away with anything.  Good comeback when y'all like to try to play the morality card.  ;)

Okay, people who believe in God don't feel they are accountable to something nonexistent. They believe they are accountable to the most powerful force, a force that can control where they spend eternity, YOU consider it non-existent, but most Christians are somewhat God-fearing.

There you go....couldn't have said it better M.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 06:40:12 pm
Quote from Falconer:
Yet for the current revisionists who have made it their goal to assert that America was founded as a secular nation by secular individuals and that the only hope for America's longevity rests in her continued secularism, George Washington's faith must be sacrificed on the altar of their secularist agenda.

Do you realize what you posted here?  Yes, it came from the link I posted, and this quote adequately says the truth in that whatever people try to say about George Washington's faith (even his own family who lived with and around him and saw him) will be stomped into the ground by non-believers.  Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.   
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 26, 2010, 06:53:12 pm
Quote from Falconer:
Yet for the current revisionists who have made it their goal to assert that America was founded as a secular nation by secular individuals and that the only hope for America's longevity rests in her continued secularism, George Washington's faith must be sacrificed on the altar of their secularist agenda.

Do you realize what you posted here?  Yes, it came from the link I posted, and this quote adequately says the truth in that whatever people try to say about George Washington's faith (even his own family who lived with and around him and saw him) will be stomped into the ground by non-believers.  Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.  

Hey J, good post.  Do you wonder what will be said about us as Christians 200 years down the road (if the world is still here) by non believers?   What do we care, as we'll certainly be in a better place. :angel11:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 07:02:29 pm
Quote from Falconer:
  Something like http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/  is definately more legitimate.


Ok!  I researched your link and yes, there are different aspects of Washington included.  I was especially interested in the section titled: "Washington's Copy of
Rules of Civility & Decent Behaviour
In Company and Conversation"

"These maxims originated in the late sixteenth century in France and were popularly circulated during Washington's time. Washington wrote out a copy of the 110 Rules in his school book when he was about sixteen-years old.

This exercise, now regarded as a formative influence in the development of his character, included guidelines for behavior in pleasant company, appropriate actions in formal situations, and general courtesies, such as: "Superfluous Complements and all Affectation of Ceremonie are to be avoided, yet where due they are not to be Neglected" (no. 25); "Think before you Speak" (no. 73); and "Rince not your Mouth in the Presence of Others" (no. 101).


During the days before mere hero worship had given place to understanding and comprehension of the fineness of Washington's character, of his powerful influence among men, and of the epoch-making nature of the issues he so largely shaped, it was assumed that Washington himself composed the maxims, or at least that he compiled them. It is a satisfaction to find that his consideration for others, his respect for and deference to those deserving such treatment, his care of his own body and tongue, and even his reverence for his Maker, all were early inculcated in him by precepts which were the common practice in decent society the world over. These very maxims had been in use in France for a century and a half, and in England for a century, before they were set as a task for the schoolboy Washington'"

So, I still maintain my stand as him being a Christian and trying to live a Godly life.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 07:04:06 pm
Quote from Falconer:
Yet for the current revisionists who have made it their goal to assert that America was founded as a secular nation by secular individuals and that the only hope for America's longevity rests in her continued secularism, George Washington's faith must be sacrificed on the altar of their secularist agenda.

Do you realize what you posted here?  Yes, it came from the link I posted, and this quote adequately says the truth in that whatever people try to say about George Washington's faith (even his own family who lived with and around him and saw him) will be stomped into the ground by non-believers.  Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.  

Hey J, good post.  Do you wonder what will be said about us as Christians 200 years down the road (if the world is still here) by non believers?   What do we care, as we'll certainly be in a better place. :angel11:
Yes, Annella, you are so right!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 27, 2010, 05:25:40 am
Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.

And you owe so much in your life to atheists, you don't even know it.  Like, oh, the discovery of DNA.  But who needs science, right?

Quote
Do you wonder what will be said about us as Christians 200 years down the road (if the world is still here) by non believers?   What do we care, as we'll certainly be in a better place.

Actually, at the current trends of decline, Christianity will be extinct in 200 years.  People who subscribe to some sort of religion then will have the same amount of credibility (none) as those who believe in ghosts and tarot cards do today.  And you'll be dead.

Whoops, too insensitive?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 10:20:38 am
Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?

Kids have free will! Ever had a teenager sneak out at night or take your car for a joyride?
Good point, Marie!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 10:32:01 am
Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.

And you owe so much in your life to atheists, you don't even know it.  Like, oh, the discovery of DNA.  But who needs science, right?

I acknowledge science with the discovery of DNA, etc. - they have amazing jobs and make amazing discoveries!  However, not all scientists are atheists, and I don't owe anything to any of them for their personal beliefs, only for their amazing work - a big "Thank You!" to them.  They are people, like we are, and deserve credit where credit is due.  Besides, that particular comment didn't even really fit in with the point we were talking about with Washington, but that's okay, I like showing you that I am behind scientists in much of their discoveries, etc. Them being atheist or not has nothing to do with that.....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 12:06:03 pm
Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.

And you owe so much in your life to atheists, you don't even know it.  Like, oh, the discovery of DNA.  But who needs science, right?

Quote
Do you wonder what will be said about us as Christians 200 years down the road (if the world is still here) by non believers?   What do we care, as we'll certainly be in a better place.

Actually, at the current trends of decline, Christianity will be extinct in 200 years.  People who subscribe to some sort of religion then will have the same amount of credibility (none) as those who believe in ghosts and tarot cards do today.  And you'll be dead.

Whoops, too insensitive?

Well no one ever discredited science, but science has NOT proven there is no God. Furthermore, there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization. I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah. Either way, there's no way we can tell...and it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 27, 2010, 12:31:54 pm
science has NOT proven there is no God.

Broken record: Religion has never proven a god exists.  It is the group making the claim who has the burden of proof.

Quote
there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization.

Fact: 92+% of the National Academy of Scientists don't believe in a personal god.  It's not just a generalization, it's a solid statistic.  If you think 8% of scientists being believers is "plenty", okay then.

Quote
I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah.

And to this I redirect you to the handy-dandy chart I posted in this thread: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17836.msg222504#msg222504

Quote
it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.

They most certainly will be.  Technology is only going to increase exponentially; so is our scientific understanding.  It's inevitable -- people will be laughing at our primitive generation in a few hundred years.  Unless Islam takes over.   :confused1:

As for "plenty of people" believing in ghosts and other nonsense in this day and age, among rational adults, they are a minority.  If some guy starts talking about the healing powers of his crystal collection in the lunchroom, he's going to get looked at funny.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 12:35:37 pm
Quote from jcribb:
and even his reverence for his Maker, all were early inculcated in him by precepts which were the common practice in decent society the world over.
Quote from Falconer:
I don't understand how this makes him a full-blooded christian...almost every source points to him being a deist (simply acknowledging, respecting, and occasionally praising a divine designer instead of worshipping the defined christian god and the bible). And practically every account of him talking of christianity can leave one very skeptical of what he truly meant. I've read the book 1776 just to gather information on the war and they actually included a chunk about Washingtons beliefs and every source I've read online that isn't christian aligns to him being this way. It pretty much stated the same as this-
http://ezinearticles.com/?Was-George-Washington-a-Christian,-Or-Not?--Conclusive-Evidence!&id=1684534

But understand this entire arguments point was to just show Annella that it's very debatable to say GW was a devout christian- the opposite is actually more plausable. All in all, we should take that articles 2nd sentence to heart and focus on his accomplishments.


Quote from Annella:
Roman rule vs Christians is another good example.
Quote from Falconer:
Thx for the reply, Annella. I'll get back to you later as I'm falling asleep here.


Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 12:36:55 pm
Quote from jcribb:
and even his reverence for his Maker, all were early inculcated in him by precepts which were the common practice in decent society the world over.

Quote from Falconer:
I don't understand how this makes him a full-blooded christian...almost every source points to him being a deist (simply acknowledging, respecting, and occasionally praising a divine designer instead of worshipping the defined christian god and the bible). And practically every account of him talking of christianity can leave one very skeptical of what he truly meant. I've read the book 1776 just to gather information on the war and they actually included a chunk about Washingtons beliefs and every source I've read online that isn't christian aligns to him being this way. It pretty much stated the same as this-
http://ezinearticles.com/?Was-George-Washington-a-Christian,-Or-Not?--Conclusive-Evidence!&id=1684534

But understand this entire arguments point was to just show Annella that it's very debatable to say GW was a devout christian- the opposite is actually more plausable. All in all, we should take that articles 2nd sentence to heart and focus on his accomplishments.

I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 12:38:04 pm
Quote from: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 09:07:32 pm
Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part

Quote from: queenofnines:
I don't know WHY you've guys run with this for as long as you have.  It makes no difference WHAT people from 200+ years ago believed.  Your pals from back then were also very pro-slavery; should we bring that back??  It is our roots and in the Bible, after all!

And Mack, definitions for things change all the time.  Women used to not be allowed to vote, interracial marriage was frowned upon, etc.  It's called progression.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 12:39:43 pm

Quote from: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 09:07:32 pm
Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part

Quote from: queenofnines on Today at 05:17:48 am
I don't know WHY you've guys run with this for as long as you have.  It makes no difference WHAT people from 200+ years ago believed.  Your pals from back then were also very pro-slavery; should we bring that back??  It is our roots and in the Bible, after all!

And Mack, definitions for things change all the time.  Women used to not be allowed to vote, interracial marriage was frowned upon, etc.  It's called progression.

Washington inherited 10 slaves from his father, and took good care of them.  He had way more later.  He freed all his slaves and to top that, gave them land and monies to help them make a life.  And YES, it DOES make a difference WHAT people years ago believed - they have helped to build our wonderful country, and now to try and be torn down from others that want to make us dependant on the government.  We'll keep running with it as long as it takes ................
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 12:40:07 pm
science has NOT proven there is no God.

Broken record: Religion has never proven a god exists.  It is the group making the claim who has the burden of proof.

Quote
there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization.

Fact: 92+% of the National Academy of Scientists don't believe in a personal god.  It's not just a generalization, it's a solid statistic.  If you think 8% of scientists being believers is "plenty", okay then.

Quote
I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah.

And to this I redirect you to the handy-dandy chart I posted in this thread: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17836.msg222504#msg222504

Quote
it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.

They most certainly will be.  Technology is only going to increase exponentially; so is our scientific understanding.  It's inevitable -- people will be laughing at our primitive generation in a few hundred years.  Unless Islam takes over.   :confused1:

As for "plenty of people" believing in ghosts and other nonsense in this day and age, among rational adults, they are a minority.  If some guy starts talking about the healing powers of his crystal collection in the lunchroom, he's going to get looked at funny.

Just because a scientist doesn't believe in a personal God doesn't mean they don't believe in SOME FORM of higher power. When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this. SCIENCE has the burden to prove the world was created another way if they want to disprove Christianity- we have the Bible. Anyone can choose not to believe or believe in anything. There are plenty of people who don't believe we even landed on the moon. The point is, we have our proof, you just choose not to agree with it. If a book was found that said a meteor exploded and the earth formed with monkeys on it that turned into humans it would be considered proof, but since the Book says there is a God you write it off as being bologna. The point is, we believe what we believe, so we don't have to prove our God to you. Even if we did you wouldn't believe it. I KNOW there is a God, I have all the proof I need. I don't discredit science and their discoveries, but they haven't discovered anything to disprove my God and never will.
A chart can't prove what people are going to believe in their hearts about their God.
As far as scientists believing in a God being a minority and people believing in ghosts being a minority YOU are the one that always preaches against majority rule. You're the one that always says that just because Christians are majority it doesn't make them right, well then the same goes for everything else. You can't ONLY apply that logic to Christianity.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 27, 2010, 02:02:05 pm
Mackenzie,

The solid statistic queen posted isn't really so solid. I did some research and the percentages are all over the place. It is true that of the "greater scientists" there is a higher rate of disbelief in God, but this proves nothing other than that they are so full of themselves and their knowledge that they hold themselves above God and make their own science their god.

Romans 1:25
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator.

And for all their puffed up knowledge in the end, they are liars.

1 John 2:22 (The Message)
So who is lying here? It's the person who denies that Jesus is the Divine Christ, that's who.

As for Christianity becoming extinct? Well not entirely but it is possible that it will become a minority religion...I say this because if you look at Europe, Christianity, for all practical purposes, has pretty much died. Islam is now the dominating religion in that area. The reason? Many people who call themselves Christians are ignorant to the historical beliefs and doctrines of Christianity. They accept diabolical doctrines, and incorporate worldly ideas into their own beliefs which makes them vulnerable to clever deception. Many of them even think there are many ways to God other than Jesus Christ, and have serious doubts about the authority and infallibility of the bible.

So Christianity may very well be in trouble of losing it's "numbers" but the replacement that is taking over right now (the replacement that is led by fanatics) will not be what these people trying to rid the world of Christianity, had in mind. If you happened to see the video that Annella posted in the "Fallout of Hate" thread (it's no longer available), but if you saw the gruesomeness in that video...that is what will be happening to anyone who uses the name of Jesus and anyone who denies Allah.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 27, 2010, 04:07:20 pm
Quote
When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this. SCIENCE has the burden to prove the world was created another way if they want to disprove Christianity- we have the Bible.

It's the standard 'god of the gaps' theory/logic, it has been used for many years, and has been referred to by myself, queen, and Falconer that I know of. The one thing you all fail to realize is that science does NOT bear the burden of proof as to whether there is a God and proving that creation happened. That requires starting from a basis of nothing and 'nothingness' is NOT within the domain of science, but is within the domain of religion and creationists - so that puts the proving on you, the religious.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 27, 2010, 04:19:40 pm
Except that as science advances, there are larger and more frequent gaps. This isn't the way it happens if science is actually progressing towards truth. And also, science says, the universe had a cause but can't explain it. This is where it all started and the silence from materialist scientists is deafening.

Stephen Hawking can try to hock that the presence of the laws means God wasn't needed. He doesn't answer who made the laws.

I think if scientists with a materialist agenda want to assert that God WASN'T the cause, they have a burden of proving what the cause was. They can't. That's one gap that won't ever have a legitimate answer from their group because God WAS the cause.

As the gaps continue to grow, they will get more desperate and those who followed the dogma to it's miserable end will only be left with the crumbling edifice of their intellectual empire built on lies.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 04:34:49 pm
Quote
I think if scientists with a materialist agenda want to assert that God WASN'T the cause, they have a burden of proving what the cause was. They can't. That's one gap that won't ever have a legitimate answer from their group because God WAS the cause.

Something that we embrace with no doubt.  Science will try to find a loophole and never actually find it. 

I've heard science tout that they can create life from dirt.  Really?  How about creating the basic fundamentals and elements of that "dirt".  All they're doing is taking credit for what God made to begin with.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 27, 2010, 04:34:58 pm
Just because a scientist doesn't believe in a personal God doesn't mean they don't believe in SOME FORM of higher power.

And there ya go -- always so quick to throw poor Jesus under the bus.   :'(  "Believe in a mushy higher power in general, but whatever you do, DON'T be an atheist!  Heavens no!  I'll get to converting you to Jesus later..."

Quote
When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this.

It's called a metaphor.  I myself speak of god often...like when coincidences happen.  As a joke.  It's nothing to take seriously.

Quote
There are plenty of people who don't believe we even landed on the moon.

And those would be the loony bins I was referring to earlier.

Quote
The point is, we have our proof, you just choose not to agree with it.

Your proof does not qualify as real proof, though.  That's the problem.

Quote
If a book was found that said a meteor exploded and the earth formed with monkeys on it that turned into humans it would be considered proof, but since the Book says there is a God you write it off as being bologna.

Wow.  This is the silliest thing I've seen you write thus far.  Scientists do not just find books and treat them as fact - they need to pass the scrutiny of reality.  Which the Bible doesn't.  The fact that there's a being called "god" in it has nothing to do with it.

Ironically, it is BECAUSE you have a book that has a being called "god" in it that you think it must be true.  Like people have never fabricated stories about god beings throughout history...oh wait, they have!  

Explain to me why the Koran isn't true?

Quote
we believe what we believe, so we don't have to prove our God to you.

You do if you're trying to force your beliefs on society at large...which Christianity is.  You do if you're running around telling people they will burn in hell for all eternity if they don't accept your invisible friend.

Quote
Even if we did you wouldn't believe it.

If you gave actual real evidence, I most certainly would.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 27, 2010, 04:38:42 pm
 
Quote
You do if you're running around telling people they will burn in hell for all eternity if they don't accept your invisible friend.
LOL
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 27, 2010, 04:53:30 pm
Quote
Issac Newton believed that the bible had a hidden message from God in it...oh and predicted the end of the world in 2060. You know Issac Newton was like one of the top two Scientists, EVER!!

Hmm, as far as the "hidden message from God"? Well, yes, but Isaac Newton is also now known to have had some fairly serious mental instability as do many who are so uber-intelligent.  He was convinced, from a 'sign' given to him, that HE was one of only a handful of people that God chose to understand biblical scripture. He also was fairly deep in studying the occult, but not in the sense of Black magic. It was more signs, predictions, alchemy, etc.

He did not predict the "the end of the world in 2060" or any of the other years written in his manuscripts, in the way I am betting you think it was. He believed the world was going to be replaced with a new one. In Islamic and Christian beliefs/theology it is what's known as the 'Second Coming of Christ'. In Judaism it is the Messianic era or the 'Days of the Messiah'. Newton was a student of Hebrew, translated many biblical texts from the Hebrew writings, and many of his unknown manuscripts, found after his death, are now held by the Jewish National and University Library. His translations and writings give a detailed chronology of Hebrew history and those he wrote on the Jewish Temple of Solomon are one of their most valued treasures.

No citings, from my memory, other than a couple names I had to double check.


Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shellyvegso on September 27, 2010, 05:10:27 pm
You know what , I may be a retard as you put it but at least I'm going to heaven who knows were your going! ::)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 05:19:33 pm
Quote
When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this. SCIENCE has the burden to prove the world was created another way if they want to disprove Christianity- we have the Bible.

It's the standard 'god of the gaps' theory/logic, it has been used for many years, and has been referred to by myself, queen, and Falconer that I know of. The one thing you all fail to realize is that science does NOT bear the burden of proof as to whether there is a God and proving that creation happened. That requires starting from a basis of nothing and 'nothingness' is NOT within the domain of science, but is within the domain of religion and creationists - so that puts the proving on you, the religious.

I have proof- The Bible, you just choose not to accept it as proof. However, you cannot prove your belief of how the world was created either.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 05:26:01 pm
Quote
I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....

Lololol yeah. And here I didn't want to turn this thing into a big debate! But your Christian Answers source pretty much said this. I just wanted it to be clear because there was preconcieved notion that he was completely christian.

Quote
LOL

I say the same thing about people believing in that fictional place too.

Quote
I may be a retard as you put it but at least I'm going to heaven who knows were your going!

You probably aren't retarded and nobody is going to some evil mythical afterlife unless you're speaking of some physical term of it. And please don't assume tribal curses on people.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 05:31:38 pm
Quote
The Bible, you just choose not to accept it as proof. However, you cannot prove your belief of how the world was created either.

Yes, because all of the fantasy stories written by primitive peoples are completely legit and that should be proof enough. You should really think about what you're saying here. We can't prove anything because we weren't there, though we keep options open. You don't.

http://www.jamesrb.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/2007-01-15-science-vs-faith.png
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 05:36:09 pm
Just because a scientist doesn't believe in a personal God doesn't mean they don't believe in SOME FORM of higher power.

And there ya go -- always so quick to throw poor Jesus under the bus.   :'(  "Believe in a mushy higher power in general, but whatever you do, DON'T be an atheist!  Heavens no!  I'll get to converting you to Jesus later..."

Quote
When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this.

It's called a metaphor.  I myself speak of god often...like when coincidences happen.  As a joke.  It's nothing to take seriously.

Quote
There are plenty of people who don't believe we even landed on the moon.

And those would be the loony bins I was referring to earlier.

Quote
The point is, we have our proof, you just choose not to agree with it.

Your proof does not qualify as real proof, though.  That's the problem.

Quote
If a book was found that said a meteor exploded and the earth formed with monkeys on it that turned into humans it would be considered proof, but since the Book says there is a God you write it off as being bologna.

Wow.  This is the silliest thing I've seen you write thus far.  Scientists do not just find books and treat them as fact - they need to pass the scrutiny of reality.  Which the Bible doesn't.  The fact that there's a being called "god" in it has nothing to do with it.

Ironically, it is BECAUSE you have a book that has a being called "god" in it that you think it must be true.  Like people have never fabricated stories about god beings throughout history...oh wait, they have!  

Explain to me why the Koran isn't true?

Quote
we believe what we believe, so we don't have to prove our God to you.

You do if you're trying to force your beliefs on society at large...which Christianity is.  You do if you're running around telling people they will burn in hell for all eternity if they don't accept your invisible friend.

Quote
Even if we did you wouldn't believe it.

If you gave actual real evidence, I most certainly would.

1st of all-  I NEVER threw Jesus under the bus. I was only letting you know that your hope that all scientists are atheists was wrong. I never tried to convert you nor do I care to, you bring up religion on this forum more often than anyone, and mostly just to bash Christianity. Since I've been posting in D&D I've seen no one try to convert you. YOU ask for proof and find ways to throw your atheism into the conversation just to discuss Christianity with whoever disagrees with you.

2nd, Calling something the God factor or referring to Creation is absolutely not a metaphor. It means they cannot account for it so they attribute it to coming from some sort of higher power. You may joke about God, but usually in scientific documentaries and such they're not trying to give their audience a laugh.

3rd, you refer to anyone who isn't an atheist and believes exactly what you believe as some sort of loony bin. Christians are loony bins, people who ever doubt science are loony bins, you accuse Christians of being intolerant yet you don't tolerate anyone who disagrees with you. I have absolutely tolerated your opinions and tried countless times to tell you that we aren't going to agree because I have Jesus in my heart and you do not, yet you can not agree to disagree.

4th,  you don't get to decide what qualifies as REAL proof. Anyone can say that NASA could have invented their evidence of the moon landing therefore it isn't REAL proof. I don't believe that, but many do. What qualifies as real proof to you? A written account of history doesn't.

5th, I'm not silly just because I believe in God, though I have seen you call just about every Christian on here silly at one point. I'm glad I've finally been included in that. I never said the Bible should be considered fact without passing scrutiny, but you cannot tell me there is not factual information in the Bible. Either way, you constantly ask for proof of Jesus when the Bible is there all along. No matter how many times we tell you that you can just write it off as not being enough proof for you, and that's fine. You can choose not to believe, but calling every Christian a delusional silly loon doesn't stop our faith.
Also, you don't know my personal beliefs on why I think the Bible is true. I will not get into that with you because it will be written off as delusional babblings and you will accuse me of trying to convert you. Either way, don't assume anything about why I believe why I believe.

6th,  I don't run around trying to force my religion on anyone. Most Christians don't, you just stereotype them that way and in turn don't tolerate Christianity at all. Furthermore, I've NEVER told anyone they are going to burn in hell so don't know where that came from. The only person I've ever heard say that on here is Marie.

7th, whatever evidence I provide will not be considered credible by you I'm sure, but how dare anyone do that with any form of science right? Science has been wrong plenty of times.

Hope I addressed everything, I'm doing an english assignment so sorry for all the grammatical errors and typos but I'm in a rush.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 05:37:01 pm
Quote
The Bible, you just choose not to accept it as proof. However, you cannot prove your belief of how the world was created either.

Yes, because all of the fantasy stories written by primitive peoples are completely legit and that should be proof enough. You should really think about what you're saying here. We can't prove anything because we weren't there, though we keep options open. You don't.

http://www.jamesrb.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/2007-01-15-science-vs-faith.png
Atheism would be the opposite of keeping the options open.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 05:40:20 pm
Quote from jcribb:
I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....

Quote from Falconer:
Lololol yeah. And here I didn't want to turn this thing into a big debate! But your Christian Answers source pretty much said this. I just wanted it to be clear because there was preconcieved notion that he was completely christian.I


Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 27, 2010, 06:50:48 pm
Quote
7th, whatever evidence I provide will not be considered credible by you I'm sure, but how dare anyone do that with any form of science right? Science has been wrong plenty of times.

You are right Mackenzie, no evidence for the existence of God is acceptable to materialist scientists and the skeptics who cling to it's dogma like the milk of life. Materialism has an unspoken borrowed commandment from our Holy book....
thou shalt have no other gods before me. Science is their god, one man even proposed the idea that there is nothing science cannot explain to us about life.  :angry7:

Quote
I've NEVER told anyone they are going to burn in hell so don't know where that came from. The only person I've ever heard say that on here is Marie.

I think queen has even marie beat in the amount of times she has posted about hell  :o  ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 06:58:07 pm
Quote from jcribb:
I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....

Quote from Falconer:
Lololol yeah. And here I didn't want to turn this thing into a big debate! But your Christian Answers source pretty much said this. I just wanted it to be clear because there was preconcieved notion that he was completely christian.I


Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

J, I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 07:04:49 pm
Quote from jcribb:
I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....

Quote from Falconer:
Lololol yeah. And here I didn't want to turn this thing into a big debate! But your Christian Answers source pretty much said this. I just wanted it to be clear because there was preconcieved notion that he was completely christian.I


Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

J, I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.

Thank you, Annella!  The teacher part of me is always trying to take over the front burner! :)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 07:12:57 pm
Quote
Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

Woah there- maybe the words got jumbled up. When I said retard I wrote the retard thread referring to this thread. I never said anything about the link being retarded. And it's true; he might have been christian, but there is only small aspects here and there referring to it. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_George_Washington_a_Christian   He may have been, but without a doubt he was not a hardcore devout christian-- which was my point in this argument. That's all. It's just my opinion that he was a deist considering some of his later writings and what his close gov't pals thought.

Quote
I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.

Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 07:15:59 pm
So what I'm getting here is the argument.......if GW was completely.....or a little bit Christian?  Is that what you were arguing Falconer02?

Quote
Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.

However, you have slammed our sites that we refer to.  Isn't that kind of a double standard?  Just sayin........
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 27, 2010, 07:25:41 pm
Quote
Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.

Oh no, there's no problem with that. There apparently is only a problem when a person who believes in God posts a link to anything that supports their belief and expects it to be taken seriously. Because if it even has God in it's title it is "broken from the get-go".

Apparently the only ones allowed to question scientific theory are those who are not questioning it from a creationists platform. The only science allowed is the science that says God is a delusion. The only answers you are willing to accept as legitimate are ones that agree with your preconceived notions of reality.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 07:41:39 pm
Quote
Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

Woah there- maybe the words got jumbled up. When I said retard I wrote the retard thread referring to this thread. I never said anything about the link being retarded. And it's true; he might have been christian, but there is only small aspects here and there referring to it. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_George_Washington_a_Christian   He may have been, but without a doubt he was not a hardcore devout christian-- which was my point in this argument. That's all. It's just my opinion that he was a deist considering some of his later writings and what his close gov't pals thought.

Quote
I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.

Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.

Right because someone who believes there is NO God is a free-thinker, but if you believe in one you must not be. Any site supporting atheism is a free-thinker site. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 07:46:57 pm
Quote
Right because someone who believes there is NO God is a free-thinker, but if you believe in one you must not be. Any site supporting atheism is a free-thinker site. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Quick to assume, eh? No, a free thinker has all rights to believe in any god they want as long as philosophies are not ensnared by the controlling religious belief system. It's pretty much the avoidance of questionable authority that are dictating certain views.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought

Obviously atheism and free-thinking have similarities, but they are not the same item.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 27, 2010, 07:56:15 pm
Quote
Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

Woah there- maybe the words got jumbled up. When I said retard I wrote the retard thread referring to this thread. I never said anything about the link being retarded. And it's true; he might have been christian, but there is only small aspects here and there referring to it. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_George_Washington_a_Christian   He may have been, but without a doubt he was not a hardcore devout christian-- which was my point in this argument. That's all. It's just my opinion that he was a deist considering some of his later writings and what his close gov't pals thought.

Quote
I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.

Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.
Thanks, Falconer, for clarifying the "retard" thread part.  It makes perfect sense now.  And I would like to say thank you for at least acknowledging that he was or in your opinion, may have been a Christian.  The main point is, whether he was devout or lukewarm, etc. at least we know he was by accounts given.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 07:58:51 pm
Quote
Right because someone who believes there is NO God is a free-thinker, but if you believe in one you must not be. Any site supporting atheism is a free-thinker site. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Quick to assume, eh? No, a free thinker has all rights to believe in any god they want as long as philosophies are not ensnared by the controlling religious belief system. It's pretty much the avoidance of questionable authority that are dictating certain views.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought

Obviously atheism and free-thinking have similarities, but they are not the same item.
So any religion you think might be valid?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 08:03:13 pm
Quote
Falconer, I gave you a link that you didn't approve of because it was a Christian site.  You gave me a link that would back your side.  I researched that link that backed you in some respects and me in the Christian life of Washington.  Yet all of a sudden that link isn't good either (your words: put it in the retard file) because it backed the fact that Washington WAS a Christian.  Can't handle the idea that some of your research, deep down delving in it, may disagree with your non-christian belief of Washington?  Like I said earlier, just accept the facts as they are, and move on.

Woah there- maybe the words got jumbled up. When I said retard I wrote the retard thread referring to this thread. I never said anything about the link being retarded. And it's true; he might have been christian, but there is only small aspects here and there referring to it. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_George_Washington_a_Christian   He may have been, but without a doubt he was not a hardcore devout christian-- which was my point in this argument. That's all. It's just my opinion that he was a deist considering some of his later writings and what his close gov't pals thought.

Quote
I've read all your postings and they were wonderful.  Must be the teacher in you.  All the sites I get from qon also is from the "atheistic experience", to prove her points.  What about good old fashioned books?  History or otherwise.  I, for one, am not a big fan of YouTube for my proof of Truth.  Anybody can say anything and make a video.

Many of the links she posts are free-thinker sites. And if a utube vid makes one think or generates a good question, I see no real problem.
Thanks, Falconer, for clarifying the "retard" thread part.  It makes perfect sense now.  And I would like to say thank you for at least acknowledging that he was or in your opinion, may have been a Christian.  The main point is, whether he was devout or lukewarm, etc. at least we know he was by accounts given.

Jcribb, we all are going to be asked just how much Christian were we one day aren't we.  I attain to be as much Christian as possible so there is no mistake.  I don't want to be luke warm.....ever!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 08:21:50 pm
Quote
So any religion you think might be valid?

Yessir! Call it convenient, but agnostics hold that you cannot know if there is a deity or deities out there. Therefore any concept of one is a possibility. But also understand this does not eliminate an invisible purple dragon god who likes marshmellows either. There's an infinite amount of possibilities and christianity is just one of them. It's pretty much embracing a mystery. The reason I argue so much on here is because people push and assert that they know who this deity is without irrefutable proof. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.

Quote
Thanks, Falconer, for clarifying the "retard" thread part.  It makes perfect sense now.  And I would like to say thank you for at least acknowledging that he was or in your opinion, may have been a Christian.

No prob!

Quote
There apparently is only a problem when a person who believes in God posts a link to anything that supports their belief and expects it to be taken seriously
Quote
However, you have slammed our sites that we refer to.  Isn't that kind of a double standard?

When you can convince minds that every god out there is wrong and made up and that your single deity is right and show viable proof of its existence, then chins will be rubbed. Is it a double standard with the videos? Perhaps...call it an opinion, but all the "atheist" videos I see just crumble the foundation of magical thinking.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 09:01:39 pm
Quote
So any religion you think might be valid?

Yessir! Call it convenient, but agnostics hold that you cannot know if there is a deity or deities out there. Therefore any concept of one is a possibility. But also understand this does not eliminate an invisible purple dragon god who likes marshmellows either. There's an infinite amount of possibilities and christianity is just one of them. It's pretty much embracing a mystery. The reason I argue so much on here is because people push and assert that they know who this deity is without irrefutable proof. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.

Quote
Thanks, Falconer, for clarifying the "retard" thread part.  It makes perfect sense now.  And I would like to say thank you for at least acknowledging that he was or in your opinion, may have been a Christian.

No prob!

Quote
There apparently is only a problem when a person who believes in God posts a link to anything that supports their belief and expects it to be taken seriously
Quote
However, you have slammed our sites that we refer to.  Isn't that kind of a double standard?

When you can convince minds that every god out there is wrong and made up and that your single deity is right and show viable proof of its existence, then chins will be rubbed. Is it a double standard with the videos? Perhaps...call it an opinion, but all the "atheist" videos I see just crumble the foundation of magical thinking.

Magical thinking?  Oh I see.....so no matter what we bring to the table will not convince you, but what atheists bring to the table does?  Then why call yourself an Agnostic, when your view clearly favors the atheistic side.  Unless you think your keeping all your options open.......just in case?   LOL

When you asked me about a couple Bible scriptures yesterday, were you serious, or just trying to "catch" me in something that I believe?  Do you believe the Bible, or is it just a tool to wield for your pleasure of attacking Christians?  Or is Christianity something that you think "might" be the Truth, but your not willing to actually make any commitment on it per adventure you may "offend" another so called god?  Don't take this as sarcasm, I'm actually wondering just where you stand.  BTW, you said you would get back to me on my response.

As far as proof, I gave anybody a chance to "prove" my words, but nobody took me up on it.  I think some of you want to be deluded to the point of never admitting your wrong, even though you may even have secretly come to the conclusion you are.  Since I can't see the seat of your emotions or thought.....it's just a guess.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 10:42:22 pm
Quote
So any religion you think might be valid?

Yessir! Call it convenient, but agnostics hold that you cannot know if there is a deity or deities out there. Therefore any concept of one is a possibility. But also understand this does not eliminate an invisible purple dragon god who likes marshmellows either. There's an infinite amount of possibilities and christianity is just one of them. It's pretty much embracing a mystery. The reason I argue so much on here is because people push and assert that they know who this deity is without irrefutable proof. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.

Quote
Thanks, Falconer, for clarifying the "retard" thread part.  It makes perfect sense now.  And I would like to say thank you for at least acknowledging that he was or in your opinion, may have been a Christian.

No prob!

Quote
There apparently is only a problem when a person who believes in God posts a link to anything that supports their belief and expects it to be taken seriously
Quote
However, you have slammed our sites that we refer to.  Isn't that kind of a double standard?

When you can convince minds that every god out there is wrong and made up and that your single deity is right and show viable proof of its existence, then chins will be rubbed. Is it a double standard with the videos? Perhaps...call it an opinion, but all the "atheist" videos I see just crumble the foundation of magical thinking.

So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 10:50:33 pm
Quote
Magical thinking?  Oh I see.....so no matter what we bring to the table will not convince you, but what atheists bring to the table does?  Then why call yourself an Agnostic, when your view clearly favors the atheistic side.  Unless you think your keeping all your options open.......just in case?   LOL

Hahaha! Well the reason I believe it's a good spot to be in is because my views favor reality; no fantasy and dogma is really required. I can live my life without thinking I'm going to burn in some mythical place or that I should only be nice because some god is watching. Keeping my options open? If we're talking infinite possibilities, you betcha!  ;) You get to see everyones beliefs on a broader spectrum. Sherna and I have been in a conversation/argument before about faith-based beliefs and speculation. I nod at the concept of your beliefs, but I honestly don't believe in them because even though they've survived a long time (as others have) and they have fine individuals stemming from them, they still dabble in the realm of fantasy far too much among other things. Edit: Oh and just for reference there are many different types of agnostic terms.

Quote
When you asked me about a couple Bible scriptures yesterday, were you serious, or just trying to "catch" me in something that I believe?  Do you believe the Bible, or is it just a tool to wield for your pleasure of attacking Christians?  Or is Christianity something that you think "might" be the Truth, but your not willing to actually make any commitment on it per adventure you may "offend" another so called god?  Don't take this as sarcasm, I'm actually wondering just where you stand.  BTW, you said you would get back to me on my response.

To answer your questions in order- Serious? Admittedly I stole those from another forum as I was reading pages of threads similar to these. I thought the user brought up some good points with them so I wanted to hear your take since you seem to be such a leader of scriptural context. That's all-- thank you for your descriptive answer. Do I believe the bible? That would fall within your definition of belief. Believe the laws and morals? Some. Believe the historical significance? Sure! Believe in the fairy tales? No. Believe in Yahweh? No. And no, I'm not worried about offending any concept of a god. Considering my post history in D+D and that Poseidon hasn't drowned me yet, I think that much is certain.

Quote
I think some of you want to be deluded to the point of never admitting your wrong, even though you may even have secretly come to the conclusion you are.  Since I can't see the seat of your emotions or thought.....it's just a guess.


It is a fantastic feeling to know that you may be wrong about your beliefs when it comes to better understanding our world and the universe-- knowing that you could be on to more information that could benefit mankind in ways never conceived before with the new evidence given. That's why many hold science with such high regard and that's one reason why I don't align with a popular religion. Does this make sense? I'll answer anything to the best of my ability if you have further questions or if I left anything out.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 27, 2010, 11:01:06 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 11:37:59 pm
Quote
Magical thinking?  Oh I see.....so no matter what we bring to the table will not convince you, but what atheists bring to the table does?  Then why call yourself an Agnostic, when your view clearly favors the atheistic side.  Unless you think your keeping all your options open.......just in case?   LOL

Hahaha! Well the reason I believe it's a good spot to be in is because my views favor reality; no fantasy and dogma is really required. I can live my life without thinking I'm going to burn in some mythical place or that I should only be nice because some god is watching. Keeping my options open? If we're talking infinite possibilities, you betcha!  ;) You get to see everyones beliefs on a broader spectrum. Sherna and I have been in a conversation/argument before about faith-based beliefs and speculation. I nod at the concept of your beliefs, but I honestly don't believe in them because even though they've survived a long time (as others have) and they have fine individuals stemming from them, they still dabble in the realm of fantasy far too much among other things. Edit: Oh and just for reference there are many different types of agnostic terms.

Quote
When you asked me about a couple Bible scriptures yesterday, were you serious, or just trying to "catch" me in something that I believe?  Do you believe the Bible, or is it just a tool to wield for your pleasure of attacking Christians?  Or is Christianity something that you think "might" be the Truth, but your not willing to actually make any commitment on it per adventure you may "offend" another so called god?  Don't take this as sarcasm, I'm actually wondering just where you stand.  BTW, you said you would get back to me on my response.

To answer your questions in order- Serious? Admittedly I stole those from another forum as I was reading pages of threads similar to these. I thought the user brought up some good points with them so I wanted to hear your take since you seem to be such a leader of scriptural context. That's all-- thank you for your descriptive answer. Do I believe the bible? That would fall within your definition of belief. Believe the laws and morals? Some. Believe the historical significance? Sure! Believe in the fairy tales? No. Believe in Yahweh? No. And no, I'm not worried about offending any concept of a god. Considering my post history in D+D and that Poseidon hasn't drowned me yet, I think that much is certain.

Quote
I think some of you want to be deluded to the point of never admitting your wrong, even though you may even have secretly come to the conclusion you are.  Since I can't see the seat of your emotions or thought.....it's just a guess.


It is a fantastic feeling to know that you may be wrong about your beliefs when it comes to better understanding our world and the universe-- knowing that you could be on to more information that could benefit mankind in ways never conceived before with the new evidence given. That's why many hold science with such high regard and that's one reason why I don't align with a popular religion. Does this make sense? I'll answer anything to the best of my ability if you have further questions or if I left anything out.

Thank you for your honesty.  Your not quite the enigma.  Just wondered what you believed, as you never seemed to light on one thing.  

Ha Ha....you stole those scriptures from another forum to ask me....funny!

Poseidon...now that's magical thinking!  

Your under the impression that I don't read or study Science or partake of the wonderful inventions or strides in medicine, etc., that Science has contributed to our quality of life.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  All that is revealed though points to a Creator (scientifically).  Sherene brought this out better than anyone could.  

Science that tries to define the universe without a Creator, in many ways comes up short....and still is.  If you want to target magical thinking, some of the theories some so called Scientists come up with can be linked in that category.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 11:39:44 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 27, 2010, 11:43:22 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 27, 2010, 11:54:11 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I agree! I don't even know how someone could feel that way, I've repeatedly just defended my God and my right to believe in him.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 28, 2010, 05:18:55 am
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

NO Marie brings up all of these ignorant topic threads. Nobody degrades your religion again Marie does a good enough job herself in this area. And no one said you cannot be a christian. Be what you want to be, but don't go around pointing the finger when you cleary know who starts this crap.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 28, 2010, 05:28:02 am
Amy, I hope you have read through the entire thread, because even though Marie started the thread, there has been a great and strong debate going on and your reply doesn't fit into what was being said.  And no one as of late in this thread has been blaming Marie for anything, just enjoying a good debate. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: tee1265 on September 28, 2010, 01:05:56 pm
I guess that I am a retard because I believe in God!! God is the creator of all things  even the "bright" person that came up with this topic!!!!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 28, 2010, 01:13:39 pm
Magical thinking?

Magical thinking!  Five Biggest LIES About Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQTohoF718 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQTohoF718)

Quote
Then why call yourself an Agnostic, when your view clearly favors the atheistic side.

Agnostics and atheists are buddies, yo!  Atheists ARE agnostic and agnostics ARE atheist.  An agnostic is ATHEIST when it comes to Yahweh and other defined gods because atheism deals with belief.  An atheist can be AGNOSTIC when it comes to the possibility of undefined gods in general because it is the only logical position to take.

So agnostics are not the cliche, "I don't know what I believe!"  They actually are atheist when it comes to your god.  ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 28, 2010, 01:38:37 pm

New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God
A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994




http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm

P.S. (QON):  I know you will belittle and try to prove otherwise, but that's okay, it's your opinion, after all.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: applebananna on September 28, 2010, 02:49:39 pm
That is ridiculous!  Many intelligent people believe in a higher power.  I believe no one knows the answer and whatever gives them meaning to their life is all that matters.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Falconer02 on September 28, 2010, 02:57:34 pm
Quote
I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Did I ever accuse you? I'm pretty sure I didn't, but I don't remember. If I blatantly did, sorry. And understand Marie is the crazy one who's doing this type of crap constantly. The only 'degrading' I do is pushing for an aerial view of belief systems and the introduction of skepticism into questional beliefs. For instance if a muslim came up to you and said Muhummad flew to heaven on some horse-creature and stayed up there for a number of years to then come back down and tell people to pray 5 times a day, I'm sure you'd question the legitimacy. But then looking at your beliefs and how they have similar fantastical stories, you may question those too. I was once told I was under the influence of Satan for doing this, so apparently I'm evil. Beware of my toxic words!

Quote
Thank you for your honesty.  Your not quite the enigma.  Just wondered what you believed, as you never seemed to light on one thing. 

Hey, no prob!

Quote
Ha Ha....you stole those scriptures from another forum to ask me....funny!

Well someone had posted it in a thread and nobody answered the posters question- they just seemed to have glossed over it and continued on. I figured you'd have some description of it.

Quote
Poseidon...now that's magical thinking! 

Yes, but considering gods come and go throughout the centuries, how do you know if in 1-2 hundred/thousand years your god will not be the same? I understand, like the Hindu teachings, your beliefs have survived a fairly long time. But it brings me to wonder if some skeptic in the Greek days asked this same question about societies current gods and they just brushed it aside as the person being "lost" or something. Ehh maybe they didn't question it because they'd get their head chopped off.

Quote
Science that tries to define the universe without a Creator, in many ways comes up short....and still is.  If you want to target magical thinking, some of the theories some so called
Scientists come up with can be linked in that category.

I dunno...there are some stretches, but I wouldn't label them as magical because they're attempted or explained in a natural light (minus the ET origins I suppose- it's debatable). They're constantly trying to find evidences within nature and there's nothing wrong with that- this sort of eliminates the magical part. But, as I've stated a lot, just because there's gaps does not mean people should stuff them with a defined deity and write it off as undeniable proof. Usually the major problem with them is the time factor and the chance factor which they usually acknowledge.

Quote
Agnostics and atheists are buddies, yo!  Atheists ARE agnostic and agnostics ARE atheist.  An agnostic is ATHEIST when it comes to Yahweh and other defined gods because atheism deals with belief.  An atheist can be AGNOSTIC when it comes to the possibility of undefined gods in general because it is the only logical position to take.

This is true. Liljp once said all atheists are agnostic-atheists which makes sense. I just usually take the 'strong-agnostic' stand and yell nobody knows for certain.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 28, 2010, 04:18:32 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I have been off my computer for a couple days but have been trying to keep up with threads via my cell phone which I can't post from, so forgive me if I reply to something from an other thread. (Im not going back thru them all)

First, concerning this thread, specifically, Rev Bigots posts right here......if you vote against equal gay rights, as you have often times stated you have, and will continue to do, then yes you most certainly are attempting to impose your own moral standards upon all others, its as simple as that.

Elsewhere, I saw you post that you do not judge others.
BS........thats bullshit, Daddy Mack.
Everyone who has an opinion on the behaviour of others are making a judgement call regardless of what we base it on.

Finally, you said something about members dissecting your every word and phrases.

You make it well know over and over that you are a Rev, in other words a teacher of Christian dogma, just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional and I speak on NDN issues. If we are going to put ourselves in the position of someone with supposed knowledge of our area of concern, we owe it to every other member to be very clear and precise of what we say. Many people dont worry with this important fact and a hell of a lot of usless and often times harmfull information gets out there this way.

You say you own all of your words, so don't go getting your bloomers all in a wad when someone points out that some of them are pretty damn incredulous.  

(edit) oh yeah....bout forgot.....you said everyone lumps all Christians into one basket, or words to that effect.....
Not even close. One of my closest and dearest friends is a very devout Christian. Mrs. Sherna is Christian and I have great respect for her.....not because she is Christian, but because it is very evident, in my opinion based on what I have seen, that she is a very tolerant person of others and has much compassion and concerns for others besides her self, JC seems very respectable to me, I like Amy and Falconer and many others on here who have all kinds of differing beliefs. I don't give two squats what someone believes in I care about how they treat others.
A very wise Elder advised me not over a couple months ago, that if I wanted to know a bit about someone, just watch how they talk and notice how many times they reference themselves in a given conversation. You are pretty impressed with your self huh Rev. Bigot?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 28, 2010, 04:52:39 pm
Wondered where you had been, Walks.
Not a huge deal, unless I attempt to start teaching children which I am totally unqualified to do and that harmful information you mentioned would definitely come into play, but you have this reversed:
"just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional" - other way around. ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 04:56:45 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

NO Marie brings up all of these ignorant topic threads. Nobody degrades your religion again Marie does a good enough job herself in this area. And no one said you cannot be a christian. Be what you want to be, but don't go around pointing the finger when you cleary know who starts this crap.

haha nobody degrades my religion? read the thread then post.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 04:57:59 pm
Magical thinking?

Magical thinking!  Five Biggest LIES About Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQTohoF718 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQTohoF718)

Quote
Then why call yourself an Agnostic, when your view clearly favors the atheistic side.

Agnostics and atheists are buddies, yo!  Atheists ARE agnostic and agnostics ARE atheist.  An agnostic is ATHEIST when it comes to Yahweh and other defined gods because atheism deals with belief.  An atheist can be AGNOSTIC when it comes to the possibility of undefined gods in general because it is the only logical position to take.

So agnostics are not the cliche, "I don't know what I believe!"  They actually are atheist when it comes to your god.  ;)

Atheists believe in NO higher power, so how can they be agnostic in that idea?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 05:03:33 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I have been off my computer for a couple days but have been trying to keep up with threads via my cell phone which I can't post from, so forgive me if I reply to something from an other thread. (Im not going back thru them all)

First, concerning this thread, specifically, Rev Bigots posts right here......if you vote against equal gay rights, as you have often times stated you have, and will continue to do, then yes you most certainly are attempting to impose your own moral standards upon all others, its as simple as that.

Elsewhere, I saw you post that you do not judge others.
BS........thats bullshit, Daddy Mack.
Everyone who has an opinion on the behaviour of others are making a judgement call regardless of what we base it on.

Finally, you said something about members dissecting your every word and phrases.

You make it well know over and over that you are a Rev, in other words a teacher of Christian dogma, just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional and I speak on NDN issues. If we are going to put ourselves in the position of someone with supposed knowledge of our area of concern, we owe it to every other member to be very clear and precise of what we say. Many people dont worry with this important fact and a hell of a lot of usless and often times harmfull information gets out there this way.

You say you own all of your words, so don't go getting your bloomers all in a wad when someone points out that some of them are pretty damn incredulous.  

(edit) oh yeah....bout forgot.....you said everyone lumps all Christians into one basket, or words to that effect.....
Not even close. One of my closest and dearest friends is a very devout Christian. Mrs. Sherna is Christian and I have great respect for her.....not because she is Christian, but because it is very evident, in my opinion based on what I have seen, that she is a very tolerant person of others and has much compassion and concerns for others besides her self, JC seems very respectable to me, I like Amy and Falconer and many others on here who have all kinds of differing beliefs. I don't give two squats what someone believes in I care about how they treat others.
A very wise Elder advised me not over a couple months ago, that if I wanted to know a bit about someone, just watch how they talk and notice how many times they reference themselves in a given conversation. You are pretty impressed with your self huh Rev. Bigot?

Firstly, I'll tell ya again that I'm a girl. I know you'll probably make another crack about why my name says mack, but considering my name is Mackenzie that's not that hard to understand.
Secondly, DISAGREEING is not the same as judging. I don't think it's right and it's not something I would do, doesn't mean I condemn those that do. So try to fathom the thought for one second that all Christians aren't overly judgemental.
Voting for something in public isn't trying to force your beliefs on someone, it's just democracy.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 28, 2010, 05:24:42 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I have been off my computer for a couple days but have been trying to keep up with threads via my cell phone which I can't post from, so forgive me if I reply to something from an other thread. (Im not going back thru them all)

First, concerning this thread, specifically, Rev Bigots posts right here......if you vote against equal gay rights, as you have often times stated you have, and will continue to do, then yes you most certainly are attempting to impose your own moral standards upon all others, its as simple as that.

Elsewhere, I saw you post that you do not judge others.
BS........thats bullshit, Daddy Mack.
Everyone who has an opinion on the behaviour of others are making a judgement call regardless of what we base it on.

Finally, you said something about members dissecting your every word and phrases.

You make it well know over and over that you are a Rev, in other words a teacher of Christian dogma, just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional and I speak on NDN issues. If we are going to put ourselves in the position of someone with supposed knowledge of our area of concern, we owe it to every other member to be very clear and precise of what we say. Many people dont worry with this important fact and a hell of a lot of usless and often times harmfull information gets out there this way.

You say you own all of your words, so don't go getting your bloomers all in a wad when someone points out that some of them are pretty damn incredulous.  

(edit) oh yeah....bout forgot.....you said everyone lumps all Christians into one basket, or words to that effect.....
Not even close. One of my closest and dearest friends is a very devout Christian. Mrs. Sherna is Christian and I have great respect for her.....not because she is Christian, but because it is very evident, in my opinion based on what I have seen, that she is a very tolerant person of others and has much compassion and concerns for others besides her self, JC seems very respectable to me, I like Amy and Falconer and many others on here who have all kinds of differing beliefs. I don't give two squats what someone believes in I care about how they treat others.
A very wise Elder advised me not over a couple months ago, that if I wanted to know a bit about someone, just watch how they talk and notice how many times they reference themselves in a given conversation. You are pretty impressed with your self huh Rev. Bigot?

Firstly, I'll tell ya again that I'm a girl. I know you'll probably make another crack about why my name says mack, but considering my name is Mackenzie that's not that hard to understand.
Secondly, DISAGREEING is not the same as judging. I don't think it's right and it's not something I would do, doesn't mean I condemn those that do. So try to fathom the thought for one second that all Christians aren't overly judgemental.
Voting for something in public isn't trying to force your beliefs on someone, it's just democracy.
I know you are a girl....uhhhh scratch that, woman.
If you make a decision of whether anything is right, or wrong, that is a judgment call, you know that....act right.
If laws are passed allowing gay marriage, it will in no way force you to modify your usual behavior and in no way victimize you in anyway, therefor the law does not concern you and if you vote on it, regardless of how many other people vote of other laws that equally do not concern them and their welfare, you are attempting to force people to conform to your ethics.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 06:47:34 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I have been off my computer for a couple days but have been trying to keep up with threads via my cell phone which I can't post from, so forgive me if I reply to something from an other thread. (Im not going back thru them all)

First, concerning this thread, specifically, Rev Bigots posts right here......if you vote against equal gay rights, as you have often times stated you have, and will continue to do, then yes you most certainly are attempting to impose your own moral standards upon all others, its as simple as that.

Elsewhere, I saw you post that you do not judge others.
BS........thats bullshit, Daddy Mack.
Everyone who has an opinion on the behaviour of others are making a judgement call regardless of what we base it on.

Finally, you said something about members dissecting your every word and phrases.

You make it well know over and over that you are a Rev, in other words a teacher of Christian dogma, just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional and I speak on NDN issues. If we are going to put ourselves in the position of someone with supposed knowledge of our area of concern, we owe it to every other member to be very clear and precise of what we say. Many people dont worry with this important fact and a hell of a lot of usless and often times harmfull information gets out there this way.

You say you own all of your words, so don't go getting your bloomers all in a wad when someone points out that some of them are pretty damn incredulous.  

(edit) oh yeah....bout forgot.....you said everyone lumps all Christians into one basket, or words to that effect.....
Not even close. One of my closest and dearest friends is a very devout Christian. Mrs. Sherna is Christian and I have great respect for her.....not because she is Christian, but because it is very evident, in my opinion based on what I have seen, that she is a very tolerant person of others and has much compassion and concerns for others besides her self, JC seems very respectable to me, I like Amy and Falconer and many others on here who have all kinds of differing beliefs. I don't give two squats what someone believes in I care about how they treat others.
A very wise Elder advised me not over a couple months ago, that if I wanted to know a bit about someone, just watch how they talk and notice how many times they reference themselves in a given conversation. You are pretty impressed with your self huh Rev. Bigot?

Firstly, I'll tell ya again that I'm a girl. I know you'll probably make another crack about why my name says mack, but considering my name is Mackenzie that's not that hard to understand.
Secondly, DISAGREEING is not the same as judging. I don't think it's right and it's not something I would do, doesn't mean I condemn those that do. So try to fathom the thought for one second that all Christians aren't overly judgemental.
Voting for something in public isn't trying to force your beliefs on someone, it's just democracy.
I know you are a girl....uhhhh scratch that, woman.
If you make a decision of whether anything is right, or wrong, that is a judgment call, you know that....act right.
If laws are passed allowing gay marriage, it will in no way force you to modify your usual behavior and in no way victimize you in anyway, therefor the law does not concern you and if you vote on it, regardless of how many other people vote of other laws that equally do not concern them and their welfare, you are attempting to force people to conform to your ethics.

If it was being judgemental I would be active AGAINST the movement. Or even preaching to the gays. I have friends that are gay. I don't go around telling everyone how wrong they are- I'm addressing it here because it is a debate and discuss forum, I didn't even start the thread. It's not judgemental to recognize sin. I sin every day, and I don't think being gay is a WORSE sin. However, it is well within my rights to vote against its legalization, not that I've been old enough to vote for long anyway. I don't think voting against something is trying to impose my ethics on others? If that is so then democracy is what you have a problem with. We all live here so we all get a say when laws change in this country, if you think every law put in place should be passed at the risk of offending someone you have hopes for a way different country than I do.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 06:49:07 pm
I was definitely thinking I was on the religion/homosexuality thread with that last post- feel free to disregard the part referring to homosexuals ha.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 07:07:08 pm
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

Mackenzie, no one that I know of on this forum (including you) has forced their religion or beliefs on anyone.  That's another "catch phrase" to put you on the defensive.  We are who we are, and content in that knowledge.  
I have been off my computer for a couple days but have been trying to keep up with threads via my cell phone which I can't post from, so forgive me if I reply to something from an other thread. (Im not going back thru them all)

First, concerning this thread, specifically, Rev Bigots posts right here......if you vote against equal gay rights, as you have often times stated you have, and will continue to do, then yes you most certainly are attempting to impose your own moral standards upon all others, its as simple as that.

Elsewhere, I saw you post that you do not judge others.
BS........thats bullshit, Daddy Mack.
Everyone who has an opinion on the behaviour of others are making a judgement call regardless of what we base it on.

Finally, you said something about members dissecting your every word and phrases.

You make it well know over and over that you are a Rev, in other words a teacher of Christian dogma, just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional and I speak on NDN issues. If we are going to put ourselves in the position of someone with supposed knowledge of our area of concern, we owe it to every other member to be very clear and precise of what we say. Many people dont worry with this important fact and a hell of a lot of usless and often times harmfull information gets out there this way.

You say you own all of your words, so don't go getting your bloomers all in a wad when someone points out that some of them are pretty damn incredulous.  

(edit) oh yeah....bout forgot.....you said everyone lumps all Christians into one basket, or words to that effect.....
Not even close. One of my closest and dearest friends is a very devout Christian. Mrs. Sherna is Christian and I have great respect for her.....not because she is Christian, but because it is very evident, in my opinion based on what I have seen, that she is a very tolerant person of others and has much compassion and concerns for others besides her self, JC seems very respectable to me, I like Amy and Falconer and many others on here who have all kinds of differing beliefs. I don't give two squats what someone believes in I care about how they treat others.
A very wise Elder advised me not over a couple months ago, that if I wanted to know a bit about someone, just watch how they talk and notice how many times they reference themselves in a given conversation. You are pretty impressed with your self huh Rev. Bigot?

I've always said I'm a sinner saved by grace, or Christians are just sinners saved by grace, or glorified dirt.  I'm impressed with the changing power of God.  The Glory is God's....not mine.  Clergy is my profession.  I'm happy to be working in it.  The love of my life is God.  I'm definitely impressed with Him......absolutely!!

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 07:10:46 pm
Quote
If it was being judgemental I would be active AGAINST the movement. Or even preaching to the gays. I have friends that are gay. I don't go around telling everyone how wrong they are- I'm addressing it here because it is a debate and discuss forum, I didn't even start the thread. It's not judgemental to recognize sin. I sin every day, and I don't think being gay is a WORSE sin. However, it is well within my rights to vote against its legalization, not that I've been old enough to vote for long anyway. I don't think voting against something is trying to impose my ethics on others? If that is so then democracy is what you have a problem with. We all live here so we all get a say when laws change in this country, if you think every law put in place should be passed at the risk of offending someone you have hopes for a way different country than I do.

You can put it in so much better words than I could.  Your a good writer Mackenzie. :heart:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 07:12:42 pm
Quote
If it was being judgemental I would be active AGAINST the movement. Or even preaching to the gays. I have friends that are gay. I don't go around telling everyone how wrong they are- I'm addressing it here because it is a debate and discuss forum, I didn't even start the thread. It's not judgemental to recognize sin. I sin every day, and I don't think being gay is a WORSE sin. However, it is well within my rights to vote against its legalization, not that I've been old enough to vote for long anyway. I don't think voting against something is trying to impose my ethics on others? If that is so then democracy is what you have a problem with. We all live here so we all get a say when laws change in this country, if you think every law put in place should be passed at the risk of offending someone you have hopes for a way different country than I do.

You can put it in so much better words than I could.  Your a good writer Mackenzie.

Thank you but I feel the same way about! I sometimes have trouble getting to the point, I don't have that problem at all when talking...but sometimes it's hard for me to get my point across without being able to change my tone. Often when I can't get something out you chime in and say exactly what I was trying to spit out :0)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 07:15:28 pm
Quote
If it was being judgemental I would be active AGAINST the movement. Or even preaching to the gays. I have friends that are gay. I don't go around telling everyone how wrong they are- I'm addressing it here because it is a debate and discuss forum, I didn't even start the thread. It's not judgemental to recognize sin. I sin every day, and I don't think being gay is a WORSE sin. However, it is well within my rights to vote against its legalization, not that I've been old enough to vote for long anyway. I don't think voting against something is trying to impose my ethics on others? If that is so then democracy is what you have a problem with. We all live here so we all get a say when laws change in this country, if you think every law put in place should be passed at the risk of offending someone you have hopes for a way different country than I do.

You can put it in so much better words than I could.  Your a good writer Mackenzie.

Thank you but I feel the same way about! I sometimes have trouble getting to the point, I don't have that problem at all when talking...but sometimes it's hard for me to get my point across without being able to change my tone. Often when I can't get something out you chime in and say exactly what I was trying to spit out :0)
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 28, 2010, 07:19:54 pm
AWWWWW....such a cute couple, dontcha think?  :'(
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 07:41:57 pm
AWWWWW....such a cute couple, dontcha think?  :'(

meaning?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 28, 2010, 07:45:47 pm
AWWWWW....such a cute couple, dontcha think?  :'(

meaning?
I KNOW UR A WOMAN!!!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: walksalone11 on September 28, 2010, 07:54:26 pm
Wondered where you had been, Walks.
Not a huge deal, unless I attempt to start teaching children which I am totally unqualified to do and that harmful information you mentioned would definitely come into play, but you have this reversed:
"just as JDog is a school teacher, JC is a health professional" - other way around. ;)
oooops, my bad.
Yeah well I have to spend some time spreading the love in the real too, LOL.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 28, 2010, 08:03:17 pm
AWWWWW....such a cute couple, dontcha think?  :'(

meaning?
I KNOW UR A WOMAN!!!

How does saying such a cute couple in any way pertain to you knowing my gender?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 08:05:00 pm
AWWWWW....such a cute couple, dontcha think?  :'(

meaning?

He's throwing out a slur.  Ignore it.  We are sisters in the Lord.  Something He doesn't understand. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 28, 2010, 09:06:32 pm
Walksalone, I just replied to you in another thread as well.  Please stop the name calling of these Christian ladies, Annella and Mackenzie.  They don't deserve it and have not asked for it.  I thought you were mature enough to be able to debate and discuss without getting ugly.  I have really only conversed with you in the Indian threads, and have not ever seen you do that in those.  When you name call, especially certain people that are Christians, you are mocking them.  I couldn't sit back and not say anything about this because you are carrying this too far.  Thank you.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 28, 2010, 09:18:36 pm
Yes walks, I know Annella has gotten under your skin, but I'm not really liking the name calling  :-[
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 09:36:24 pm
Yes walks, I know Annella has gotten under your skin, but I'm not really liking the name calling  :-[

Uh, It's called disagreeing.  Something everyone on this forum has exercised.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 28, 2010, 09:57:31 pm
Lol, I know Annella  ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: TALENTED3 on September 28, 2010, 10:21:44 pm
thatz really not true
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 28, 2010, 11:37:41 pm
thatz really not true

Hi TALENTED3, welcome to the forum.  Jump right in and get your feet wet.  We're glad your here, and hope you stick around.  Anyway I can help you, just holler.  Check out the videos on the home page, and they will explain everything just about what you need to know.  Have fun and make some extra money! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 12:07:00 am
Walksalone, I just replied to you in another thread as well.  Please stop the name calling of these Christian ladies, Annella and Mackenzie.  They don't deserve it and have not asked for it.  I thought you were mature enough to be able to debate and discuss without getting ugly.  I have really only conversed with you in the Indian threads, and have not ever seen you do that in those.  When you name call, especially certain people that are Christians, you are mocking them.  I couldn't sit back and not say anything about this because you are carrying this too far.  Thank you.

once again very much appreciated!!! definitely uncalled for.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 05:20:41 am
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.

I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

NO Marie brings up all of these ignorant topic threads. Nobody degrades your religion again Marie does a good enough job herself in this area. And no one said you cannot be a christian. Be what you want to be, but don't go around pointing the finger when you cleary know who starts this crap.

haha nobody degrades my religion? read the thread then post.
NO maybe you should stop typing and re read what you my dear have posted. You and alot of others are so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal. I have NEVER met so called Christians like you and some others before (thankfully never met you in real life)!! Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 05:22:18 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 09:12:55 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!

Yes, it is called debate, but you did not debate in the above post when you called certain ones "so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal."  And this: "Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT."  That sounds like hypocrisy to me, calling names, and refusing to debate and discuss their views.  You can't debate unless you are willing to listen and respond with adult conversation.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 09:19:23 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!

Yes, it is called debate, but you did not debate in the above post when you called certain ones "so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal."  And this: "Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT."  That sounds like hypocrisy to me, calling names, and refusing to debate and discuss their views.  You can't debate unless you are willing to listen and respond with adult conversation.
Maybe if the topic was an ADULT conversation I would have more compassion. But I do not. You guys can play the victim card all you want. No I will not listen to anything that comes from the mouths of people who are so small minded as to start a thread with the word retard in it and then countinue to talk about YOUR GOD..
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 09:38:46 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!

Yes, it is called debate, but you did not debate in the above post when you called certain ones "so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal."  And this: "Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT."  That sounds like hypocrisy to me, calling names, and refusing to debate and discuss their views.  You can't debate unless you are willing to listen and respond with adult conversation.
Maybe if the topic was an ADULT conversation I would have more compassion. But I do not. You guys can play the victim card all you want. No I will not listen to anything that comes from the mouths of people who are so small minded as to start a thread with the word retard in it and then countinue to talk about YOUR GOD..

I really hope you have read the complete thread.  There have definitely been adults having a debate in here.  Including people you tend to agree with.  The thread began "retarded" but has gone deeper into the subject.  Then you come in here stirring up the pot.  It is not "us guys" who are playing any victim card. It's you trying to stir up and get attention....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 09:43:04 am
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 09:46:36 am
I really hope you have read the complete thread.  There have definitely been adults having a debate in here.  Including people you tend to agree with.  The thread began "retarded" but has gone deeper into the subject.  Then you come in here stirring up the pot.  It is not "us guys" who are playing any victim card. It's you trying to stir up and get attention....

The thread didn't start out retarded. I was sick of atheists and agnostics saying believers were not intelligent, which would be them being a retard. It is my understanding that, non believers think believers are retarded. So hence the title of the thread, If you believe in God, you are a retard.
I wish you had prove were one person has called you such a derogatory name.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 09:52:21 am
I really hope you have read the complete thread.  There have definitely been adults having a debate in here.  Including people you tend to agree with.  The thread began "retarded" but has gone deeper into the subject.  Then you come in here stirring up the pot.  It is not "us guys" who are playing any victim card. It's you trying to stir up and get attention....

The thread didn't start out retarded. I was sick of atheists and agnostics saying believers were not intelligent, which would be them being a retard. It is my understanding that, non believers think believers are retarded. So hence the title of the thread, If you believe in God, you are a retard.
I wish you had prove were one person has called you such a derogatory name.

I can give you proof, but it will take awhile to hunt down the posts.
Of being a retard? Good I would love to see them.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 10:43:18 am
Quote
So only agnostics are open-minded? Everyone else is close-minded and not a free-thinker? haha

It's only closed when you assert or physically force beliefs onto individuals with nothing to realistically back it up (reason, logic) and say it's the only way of thinking. Anyone can be a free-thinker. I'm sure we can agree fanatics and extremists definitely aren't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought
Edit: And yes, I acknowledge imagination as being direly important in some cases.


I have NEVER forced my beliefs on someone. On this forum for the most part people of other beliefs are the ones who bring it up and try to degrade my choice of religion. I understand and acknowledge other religions and never claimed not to, doesn't mean I can't be a Christian through and through.

NO Marie brings up all of these ignorant topic threads. Nobody degrades your religion again Marie does a good enough job herself in this area. And no one said you cannot be a christian. Be what you want to be, but don't go around pointing the finger when you cleary know who starts this crap.

haha nobody degrades my religion? read the thread then post.
NO maybe you should stop typing and re read what you my dear have posted. You and alot of others are so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal. I have NEVER met so called Christians like you and some others before (thankfully never met you in real life)!! Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT!

Lose the attitude.
Yeah, good thing we haven't met in person. People tend to act a lot tougher on a forum than in real life- so go on feeling big and bad talking down to people for no reason. I simply put MY 2 cents in on this thread, only to be degraded on it AND i didn't complain about it. Not one bit. Not until I was accused of degrading others, which is BS in itself considering ALL I was doing in defending my beliefs and not outing anyone else's.
I've seen you on other threads with your tough attitude, and it's very apparent that you use a forum as a way to make you feel good by talking down to others. What the hell does it matter to you if I love my God? It doesn't. && before you go on saying I tried imposing my views on anyone else, I sure did NOT. I joined in a DISCUSSION- I don't see you getting mad at anyone who shares YOUR views for not acting like an adult, although I didn't see the Christians on here provoking the immature conversations that spew, we only respond.
You want everyone to roll over and give in to your beliefs- it's not going to happen. I don't expect everyone to become a Christian because I'm a Christian? So feel free to keep your mouth shut, especially when you aren't even involved in this thread at all and just jumped at the chance to back a Christan- GET A LIFE.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 10:44:15 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!

Use what?
And i don't mind people putting in their 2 cents?
Why do you mind that I'm putting in mine?
Only people who agree with you can put in their 2 cents right?
Get off it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 10:45:27 am
And its called DEBATE if you do not want the minds of others putting their two cents in their is a general talk forum. USE IT!

Yes, it is called debate, but you did not debate in the above post when you called certain ones "so freaking hypocritical when it comes to your posts its unreal."  And this: "Get a life and stop trying to put others down with your IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT."  That sounds like hypocrisy to me, calling names, and refusing to debate and discuss their views.  You can't debate unless you are willing to listen and respond with adult conversation.
Maybe if the topic was an ADULT conversation I would have more compassion. But I do not. You guys can play the victim card all you want. No I will not listen to anything that comes from the mouths of people who are so small minded as to start a thread with the word retard in it and then countinue to talk about YOUR GOD..

ONE person started this thread. Quit lumping everyone into one category and proving how stereotypical you really are. Is every atheist the same? Then niether is every Christian.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 10:47:19 am
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

Why else would you chime in 22 pages late on a thread only to run your mouth and put in no useful discussion towards the topic at hand?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 29, 2010, 11:25:50 am
I suppose even if the word retard hadn't been used (but marie showed that it has) the terms for our belief being called

delusional
lunacy
childish
immature
insane
crazy
unintelligent
dumb
nonsense
 (all of which have been used in this forum)

that's all perfectly acceptable, but we should never accuse anyone of calling us retarded....no....unbelievers would NEVER use THAT term right??
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 12:33:02 pm
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

By the way, you shouldn't call me "honey."  Walksalone may misinterpret and think that we make a cute couple, too.  I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of that with you.  (Thread, page 20)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 12:35:14 pm
Marie, Mackenzie, and Sherene:  You did some good background proof and rebuttal back to her.  A lot happened since I went and came back from work. 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 01:53:50 pm
O you guys are a hoot!! Thanks for the laughs. Marie I honestly thought you would show me what was said to you, but its all jokes for you and your sheep.
Tsk Tsk.....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 01:55:06 pm
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

By the way, you shouldn't call me "honey."  Walksalone may misinterpret and think that we make a cute couple, too.  I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of that with you.  (Thread, page 20)
Um no Walksalone knows im married and further more is smarter to realize that my mind isn't set on ignorance.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 29, 2010, 01:56:15 pm
I suppose even if the word retard hadn't been used (but marie showed that it has) the terms for our belief being called

delusional
lunacy
childish
immature
insane
crazy
unintelligent
dumb
nonsense
 (all of which have been used in this forum)

that's all perfectly acceptable, but we should never accuse anyone of calling us retarded....no....unbelievers would NEVER use THAT term right??
SHOWED where??? Where is the proof??
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 02:19:57 pm
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

By the way, you shouldn't call me "honey."  Walksalone may misinterpret and think that we make a cute couple, too.  I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of that with you.  (Thread, page 20)
Um no Walksalone knows im married and further more is smarter to realize that my mind isn't set on ignorance.
See what I mean?  You can't quit with the sarcasm and the name calling. That's not very befitting for a lady!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 29, 2010, 02:24:35 pm
I suppose even if the word retard hadn't been used (but marie showed that it has) the terms for our belief being called

delusional
lunacy
childish
immature
insane
crazy
unintelligent
dumb
nonsense
 (all of which have been used in this forum)

that's all perfectly acceptable, but we should never accuse anyone of calling us retarded....no....unbelievers would NEVER use THAT term right??
SHOWED where??? Where is the proof??

READ THE POSTS!  ::)

This is your post from earlier in the thread. So add BS to the list of things said about Christians beliefs.

IMAGINATION talk of BUL**HIT~Message ID: 244966


Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 29, 2010, 03:54:14 pm
This is STILL going on from this morning?! Adults, normally rational ones at that, spending almost 2 pages playing tit-for-tat and digging up all the names you have been called and even showing posts from a year ago that NONE of you have the slightest clue as to what the context of the conversation was, but you can see one person in particular who was involved in it, so you ought to take her history into account from the get go! The other post from the one not known, is from Jerry1216 - any of you even recognize the name? No, I didn't think so, cause he was a fanatical troll and was saying some really un-Christian things as a 'true Christian' to liljp617 (someone I respect and who is always decent to everyone) and Falconer was defending her, but marielissa tried to make HIM look like the bad guy for it. Come on, you're all (most of you) better than this. The thread now looks more like a bunch of highschool girl's Facebook accounts.....and all started because one person didn't know what was going on.

I have gone after one person on here for their behaviour, as have all of you, but this makes that stuff look like milk and cookies because it was at least relevant to the time period. AmyTrivitt, you can get as PO'd as you want, but you really didn't bother with knowing what was in this entire thread. As soon as I saw this I knew that:
Quote
No I will not listen to anything that comes from the mouths of people who are so small minded as to start a thread with the word retard in it and then continue to talk about YOUR GOD..

Didn't this give you a clue? Anyone who says that 'not intelligent' = 'retard', when there is a whole lot of levels in between the two is not quite a reliable source for anything:
Quote
The thread didn't start out retarded. I was sick of atheists and agnostics saying believers were not intelligent, which would be them being a retard. It is my understanding that, non believers think believers are retarded.

What a hot mess this thread became.... :(
 
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 29, 2010, 06:11:06 pm
A couple of you that are clearly anti-christian have sent me friend requests to my Facebook account.  Please don't send them anymore.  You will NOT be added!  What is your motivation for such?  My Facebook account is a personal page with personal information for families and friends.

I guess what my question is, why would you want to be my friend, when you clearly hate Christians?  Unless it was for gaining personal information to further your hate and malcontent.

You have been BLOCKED from even viewing the basic of basic information.  Facebook has also been alerted.  I may not have much control over the poison that spews around here, but I do with my own personal account.  It's one thing to disagree, but to try and find out personal information about people behind the keyboard for whatever reason is creepy to say the least.

I know this is off topic, but knew it would be read here.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 06:16:13 pm
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

By the way, you shouldn't call me "honey."  Walksalone may misinterpret and think that we make a cute couple, too.  I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of that with you.  (Thread, page 20)
Um no Walksalone knows im married and further more is smarter to realize that my mind isn't set on ignorance.
Really doesn't matter. He knows I'm a girl and continues to refer to me as a male. He knows I don't even agree with homosexuality and continues to suggest that I am a lesbian- with Annella at that. haha.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 06:19:28 pm
Attention,,, for what? Don't flatter yourself honey.

By the way, you shouldn't call me "honey."  Walksalone may misinterpret and think that we make a cute couple, too.  I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of that with you.  (Thread, page 20)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 29, 2010, 06:43:15 pm
Annella,
I am completely ignorant when it comes to facebook, so I have a question. How does someone even find you on there if they don't know what you go by or your real name?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 29, 2010, 07:18:08 pm
You can get a person's email address on here if you add them as a buddy, you can find people on facebook with their email address. And Annella has said on here that Annella is her actual name and so even without a last name a person can search on facebook with that. Annella isn't a common name so it becomes a matter of narrowing it down.

Thankfully you can block all personal info from being viewed by people who are not friends on facebook, but unless you create a total anonymous identity here (using a name other than your own and a separate email address not connected with other networks) it's not that hard to find a person on the social networks (if they have an account).

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 29, 2010, 07:24:28 pm
You can get a person's email address on here if you add them as a buddy, you can find people on facebook with their email address. And Annella has said on here that Annella is her actual name and so even without a last name a person can search on facebook with that. Annella isn't a common name so it becomes a matter of narrowing it down.

Thankfully you can block all personal info from being viewed by people who are not friends on facebook, but unless you create a total anonymous identity here (using a name other than your own and a separate email address not connected with other networks) it's not that hard to find a person on the social networks (if they have an account).



Thank you Sherene, that is correct.  Old Buddy, who makes the videos for FC was very easy to find by me and others, and Old Buddy isn't his real name.  I'm in the process of weeding out who I have on there right now.  

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 29, 2010, 07:38:02 pm
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 29, 2010, 08:09:44 pm
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.

A couple threads ago she was letting me know how to find her on facebook, and said to search for Annella. Since it's an uncommon name and she used to have her actual photo on here, it wouldn't be too hard to type her name into the search then glance through the photos until you find the one that matched. It would probably be a little harder if her name was more common, but I'm guessing since it isn't that there isn't too many Annellas to sift through.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 29, 2010, 08:14:44 pm
Speaking of Facebook, and the oddity of what Annella is saying, have any of you seen this new thread Marie has started?:

"This is great stuff right here...Facebook Fail mwahahaha"
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 29, 2010, 09:52:23 pm
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.

Nope, they identified themselves as being on FC, and 1 name is what they use on here as their handle.  They are frequent posters here in D&D.  I wrote Sherene when I got the 1st invitation, so she knows who I'm talking about.  While I could come out and give you the names, their intentions may have been innocent, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.  However, I will use their attempt to warn anyone else who thinks they might access anything more than what is here on this forum.

Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.  However, you said it yourself, why would anyone want to access me via Facebook?  Now that's the question isn't it?

I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 02:08:21 am
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.

Nope, they identified themselves as being on FC, and 1 name is what they use on here as their handle.  They are frequent posters here in D&D.  I wrote Sherene when I got the 1st invitation, so she knows who I'm talking about.  While I could come out and give you the names, their intentions may have been innocent, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.  However, I will use their attempt to warn anyone else who thinks they might access anything more than what is here on this forum.

Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.  However, you said it yourself, why would anyone want to access me via Facebook?  Now that's the question isn't it?

I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.



If you are talking about me, amyrouse told me you wanted me to add you, but I have deleted you awhile back. She emailed me this.

It's not you Marieelissa.  You sent me a friend request at my request quite awhile back, for you to.  I added you as a friend.  That has nothing to do with this.  These requests I'm talking about were ignored, and not "approved" by me.  Different situation.

In fact I looked for you today in my friends list and you were gone.  Of course it's your choice yourself who you want in your "friends" list.  I do know you were there before, as you made a comment on a photo of me baptizing someone.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 04:33:39 am
I had someone I don't know add me and I accepted...her name is Sandra Mclay...ring a bell?

No.  Be very careful who you approve.  I've went through my friends list with a fine tooth comb yesterday and today, and deleted some.  You have to be careful of the "friends" you have added because they can "see" what you "see" on your profile and visa versa, unless you have some very strict settings, which I've put in place.  Just be careful.  I had no problem with you being a friend at all.  Please don't take offense. 

A lot of people just approve "anyone".  I have a little over a hundred friends and that's it.  I know everybody on my list, and a good portion of who they know (as we all move in basically the same circles). 

I see individuals on there with literally "thousands" of people on their lists.....not me.  I'm a bit more discriminating.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 30, 2010, 06:01:59 am
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.
Nope, they identified themselves as being on FC, and 1 name is what they use on here as their handle.  They are frequent posters here in D&D.  I wrote Sherene when I got the 1st invitation, so she knows who I'm talking about.  While I could come out and give you the names, their intentions may have been innocent, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.  However, I will use their attempt to warn anyone else who thinks they might access anything more than what is here on this forum.

Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.  However, you said it yourself, why would anyone want to access me via Facebook?  Now that's the question isn't it?

I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.


Look, I don't know where your aggression is coming from.
Quote
Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.
Yeah, 'fishy' as in someone possibly hacking other people's accounts on there and pretending they are someone else. Two weeks ago I had someone hack my debit card number and I am still cleaning up the mess. I know zero about Facebook, but I DID just read about thousands of accounts on there getting hacked, okay? What did you think I meant?
Quote
I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.
I was NOT 'implying' anything. There are people on here that you have never seen eye to eye with and YOU made it sound as if THESE were the ones trying to get to you via Facebook. You really don't "need to tell" anyone on here if they are NOT in your group of friends you WOULD allow on Facebook. It's very apparent in your posts who your friends are, which is completely within your rights on here, and anyone reading can gleen that and you know it. So don't try and make it out as if I was 'implying' something that isn't very apparent and there for anyone to see. Have you gotten to the point that you see some ulterior motive in everything, even a completely innocent question from me as to something I am ignorant of? This conversation had NOTHING to do with with religion and/or personal views, yet you still make it into a platform to get a dig in, come on, that's ridiculous.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: AmyTrivitt on September 30, 2010, 06:06:28 am
"Didn't this give you a clue? Anyone who says that 'not intelligent' = 'retard', when there is a whole lot of levels in between the two is not quite a reliable source for anything:"

First of all I never ONCE called anyone a retard. And the correct use of this word is mentally challenged. How dare you set back and say I typed such a word.
If you ever had feelings for anyone (not me im talking of the disabled people) you would have never said that. They have feelings and human rights like the rest of us.
And on top of that putting your religion in with the mentally challenged is just disgusting.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 06:19:54 am
No, admin removed any e-mail addresses in profiles/buddies weeks ago. I know even I could probably find OldBuddy ONLY because he's said he has his link to FC on there because of vids and referrals. Like I said, I am Facebook ignorant. I am very puzzled though as to why anyone who knows you don't care for them would even bother trying to get to you via Facebook? Sounds a little fishy to me. Is it possible someone is disguising themselves and playing games with you? I have to get out the door, going in later for once, so will look for answer in the morning.
Nope, they identified themselves as being on FC, and 1 name is what they use on here as their handle.  They are frequent posters here in D&D.  I wrote Sherene when I got the 1st invitation, so she knows who I'm talking about.  While I could come out and give you the names, their intentions may have been innocent, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.  However, I will use their attempt to warn anyone else who thinks they might access anything more than what is here on this forum.

Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.  However, you said it yourself, why would anyone want to access me via Facebook?  Now that's the question isn't it?

I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.


Look, I don't know where your aggression is coming from.
Quote
Sounds fishy huh?  Your entitled to your opinion.
Yeah, 'fishy' as in someone possibly hacking other people's accounts on there and pretending they are someone else. Two weeks ago I had someone hack my debit card number and I am still cleaning up the mess. I know zero about Facebook, but I DID just read about thousands of accounts on there getting hacked, okay? What did you think I meant?
Quote
I've never told anyone on this forum I didn't care for them, but not everyone can say that back, now can they?  So don't imply otherwise.  Thank you.
I was NOT 'implying' anything. There are people on here that you have never seen eye to eye with and YOU made it sound as if THESE were the ones trying to get to you via Facebook. You really don't "need to tell" anyone on here if they are NOT in your group of friends you WOULD allow on Facebook. It's very apparent in your posts who your friends are, which is completely within your rights on here, and anyone reading can gleen that and you know it. So don't try and make it out as if I was 'implying' something that isn't very apparent and there for anyone to see. Have you gotten to the point that you see some ulterior motive in everything, even a completely innocent question from me as to something I am ignorant of? This conversation had NOTHING to do with with religion and/or personal views, yet you still make it into a platform to get a dig in, come on, that's ridiculous.


As a matter of fact the people who wanted to get added to my Facebook account were people on here I've never seen eye to eye with.  So I'm not trying to make it sound like these are the people, as you above stated.  THEY ARE THE PEOPLE!! (at least 2 of them).  One for absolutely sure, and the other one is being looked into.

Oh Chill out...........

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 30, 2010, 06:38:37 am
Yes, and that is what I said, and that is why I found it odd. If anyone needs to "chill out" it's you.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 06:42:43 am
Yes, and that is what I said, and that is why I found it odd. If anyone needs to "chill out" it's you.

Whatever......... ::)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 30, 2010, 07:03:13 am
Yes, and that is what I said, and that is why I found it odd. If anyone needs to "chill out" it's you.

Whatever......... ::)

"chill out", "whatever"
How old are you, 60 now - know you posted about your birthday, and this is your way of responding? Wow.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 07:04:55 am
Yes, and that is what I said, and that is why I found it odd. If anyone needs to "chill out" it's you.

Whatever......... ::)

"chill out", "whatever"
How old are you, 60 now - know you posted about your birthday, and this is your way of responding? Wow.

Right on! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 30, 2010, 08:27:40 am
A couple of you that are clearly anti-christian have sent me friend requests to my Facebook account.  Please don't send them anymore.  You will NOT be added!  What is your motivation for such?  My Facebook account is a personal page with personal information for families and friends.

I guess what my question is, why would you want to be my friend, when you clearly hate Christians?  Unless it was for gaining personal information to further your hate and malcontent.

You have been BLOCKED from even viewing the basic of basic information.  Facebook has also been alerted.  I may not have much control over the poison that spews around here, but I do with my own personal account.  It's one thing to disagree, but to try and find out personal information about people behind the keyboard for whatever reason is creepy to say the least.

Ooh, I love a game of Clue in the morning!  Wait, what?

For the record, it wasn't me.  I only have one FB account where I go by my real first and last name, not a "handle".  And I resent that you would accuse any of the other non-Christians I've come in contact with of doing such a thing.  It's coming in loud and clear, "Anyone who is godless is a BAD person who does creepy things!" when that is the furthest from the truth.

To quote you, "I think your making this up" (ergh, grammar!) OR it is someone who you've never even met before on this forum who's been lurking and decided to play with you.  There's a good chance they are impersonating someone(s)...you can create multiple FB accounts, you know.

Again, I don't appreciate the hateful accusation...because I can guarantee it wasn't me, Falconer, jordandog, amyrouse, ButterflyWings, and any of the other credible people I am forgetting (note: I know you believe in god, Amy, but because you're not Christian, that could be considered "anti-Christian".  lol)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 08:52:21 am
A couple of you that are clearly anti-christian have sent me friend requests to my Facebook account.  Please don't send them anymore.  You will NOT be added!  What is your motivation for such?  My Facebook account is a personal page with personal information for families and friends.

I guess what my question is, why would you want to be my friend, when you clearly hate Christians?  Unless it was for gaining personal information to further your hate and malcontent.

You have been BLOCKED from even viewing the basic of basic information.  Facebook has also been alerted.  I may not have much control over the poison that spews around here, but I do with my own personal account.  It's one thing to disagree, but to try and find out personal information about people behind the keyboard for whatever reason is creepy to say the least.

Ooh, I love a game of Clue in the morning!  Wait, what?

For the record, it wasn't me.  I only have one FB account where I go by my real first and last name, not a "handle".  And I resent that you would accuse any of the other non-Christians I've come in contact with of doing such a thing.  It's coming in loud and clear, "Anyone who is godless is a BAD person who does creepy things!" when that is the furthest from the truth.

To quote you, "I think your making this up" (ergh, grammar!) OR it is someone who you've never even met before on this forum who's been lurking and decided to play with you.  There's a good chance they are impersonating someone(s)...you can create multiple FB accounts, you know.

Again, I don't appreciate the hateful accusation...because I can guarantee it wasn't me, Falconer, jordandog, amyrouse, ButterflyWings, and any of the other credible people I am forgetting (note: I know you believe in god, Amy, but because you're not Christian, that could be considered "anti-Christian".  lol)

FYI Amyrouse has been added to my account as a friend a long time ago.  LOL   Resent away..........




Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jordandog on September 30, 2010, 09:18:14 am
I don't know where you found those, marieelissa, but I really got a good laugh out of them! :D

I suppose by saying that I am now a christian/religious basher of the worst kind....
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 30, 2010, 09:32:20 am
Marie, you are definitely on a roll, here!!!  No one can say that both sides were not represented!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 10:02:44 am
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/thompson3405.jpg)

This one I really like!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: tammyrwa on September 30, 2010, 12:52:07 pm
To AmyRouse, and Jordandog- first Amy- my heart goes out to you for what happened to you- I can't even imagine what that was like, and I don't want to, but can I ask you if you had any worry or inclinations that you were not supposed to be where you were, or go where you did that day?- please do not misunderstand me- what happened to you was not at all your fault, regardless of the circumstances, but I have learned through trial and error, that if you have any misgivings about doing something, going somewhere, you should listen to your gut. that is the Spirit God has put inside of us- we don't just get a bad feeling, etc.. All of us have gone places we should not have gone, and done things we should not have, and we wound up sorry. Even if you are in your own home or whatever, if your gut says lock the door, don't answer the door, don't go outside, do go with him/her- this person you like is bad news, don't hang with that crowd, etc, it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: armychick09h on September 30, 2010, 12:58:21 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

Applauds to you. totally back you up 100% on that
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on September 30, 2010, 02:04:52 pm
it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but "gut feelings" are entirely due to evolution.

http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/1-50/article26_body.html
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: SurveyMack10 on September 30, 2010, 02:21:53 pm
it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but "gut feelings" are entirely due to evolution.

http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/1-50/article26_body.html
Oh can you prove evolution now too? Somehow I feel I didn't come from a monkey.

not going to get into a debate about it- just letting you know that if someone doesnt believe in evolution, theyre not going to believe thats where their gut feeling comes from
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: jcribb16 on September 30, 2010, 02:23:10 pm
it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but "gut feelings" are entirely due to evolution.

http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/1-50/article26_body.html

Tammy - stand your ground.  There she goes telling you she knows everything there is to know about this and we can't decide for ourselves.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: shernajwine on September 30, 2010, 02:37:01 pm
it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but "gut feelings" are entirely due to evolution.

http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/1-50/article26_body.html

Tammy - stand your ground.  There she goes telling you she knows everything there is to know about this and we can't decide for ourselves.

And when you do decide for yourself because evolution is completely devoid of any legitimate and relevant answers to origins, people who believe in evolution will dismiss it, as if the most critical of questions isn't important enough to bother with.  :o

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: Annella on September 30, 2010, 02:45:47 pm
it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but "gut feelings" are entirely due to evolution.

http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/1-50/article26_body.html

Gut feelings are not ENTIRELY due to evolution.  Your not raining on the parade, because every Christian on here has experienced that still small voice.  You have no idea what your talking about.  All your evolution, atheistic, mumbo jumbo can't explain a "real" relationship with the Creator who made ALL things, and how He speaks to His own through His Spirit.  There again, we have free choice to listen or not.   

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on September 30, 2010, 03:24:56 pm
To AmyRouse, and Jordandog- first Amy- my heart goes out to you for what happened to you- I can't even imagine what that was like, and I don't want to, but can I ask you if you had any worry or inclinations that you were not supposed to be where you were, or go where you did that day?- please do not misunderstand me- what happened to you was not at all your fault, regardless of the circumstances, but I have learned through trial and error, that if you have any misgivings about doing something, going somewhere, you should listen to your gut. that is the Spirit God has put inside of us- we don't just get a bad feeling, etc.. All of us have gone places we should not have gone, and done things we should not have, and we wound up sorry. Even if you are in your own home or whatever, if your gut says lock the door, don't answer the door, don't go outside, do go with him/her- this person you like is bad news, don't hang with that crowd, etc, it is the spirit of God warning us, and nothing else- not premonition, sixth sense, or just something else- it is God.

I believe in g-d with everything I am...and I have to respectfully disagree with you.  This was not g-d telling me to turn away.  This was purely instinct, a survival response.  I have a hard time believing that a g-d that I love and who loves me in return would give me a warning like that and do nothing else to prevent the horrible thing that happened from happening!  This isn't a parent standing by and watching their child fall and skin their knee...this is the worst crime anyone could possibly commit against another human being. Its been over four years now, and I am still recovering from the impact.

My mother carried me for nine months and gave birth to me.  Her genes in combination with my father's genes along with the morals they taught me growing up are what made me who I am today.  My parents gave me the foundation to live my life, but they are not active participants in my life who can sway what happens to me.  I believe the same for g-d.  If g-d had the power to give me a warning at that exact moment because g-d knew what was about to happen, that is one of the weakest things I can think of g-d doing to try to protect me.  I would have rather had g-d ignore me at that moment in time, because if g-d really is an active participant in this world...I'm disappointed.  I don't have all the answers, and I am not all-knowing, but for a loving g-d who has the capability to be an active participant and heal through prayer and etc...for that g-d to continue to allow things like this to happen with just a weak pit of the stomach warning...it astounds me.  I can't be the only one who believes this is weak.

So, while I appreciate your sympathy, I respectfully disagree with the rest of what you have said.  It may sound perfectly rational to you, but it still sounds like a bunch of victim blaming to me.  How else is "its not your fault, but..." supposed to sound?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 01, 2010, 10:00:22 am
I believe the creator of that thread and Falconor went way too far with the R word. I mean I have a mild form of autism which means i'm retarded medically speaking!!!!!!! :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 01, 2010, 10:33:19 am
Do I have to keep posting that...I AM IN NO WAY CALLING ANYONE A RETARD>>>I JUST GOT SICK OF THE HATE DIRECTED TOWARDS ME AND MY BELIEFS


People are always going to be rude to people with different beliefs then them. Just gotta shrug it off.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: tammyrwa on October 01, 2010, 04:33:48 pm
First of all. to those who stand with me and defend the cross -thanks. There are those who call the bible fairy tales- have you read the bible?- have you even tried?- it doesn't make sense to those who will not accept that there is one who created the world and everything in it-people would rather believe we come from monkeys- how crazy is that? The bible is a history book, love book, family book, people book hope book book, peace book, friend book,future predictor, and even a book of judgement- but fairy tale- I don't think so- you don't want to accept that there is actually a book that tells you to live a moral life, love your neighbor, stay married, don't have sex outside of marriage- things we ought to do for the betterment of society, and to save our lives- see people don't like those rules, but they will follow other stupid silly rules that do't make sense to any rational person- the "so called" fairy tale is the best book to live by- it will change your life for the better if you let it. If you believe gut feeling comes from evolution, then you must believe you are an ape, because that's what evolution teaches. the bible outdated- you don't know of what you speak- you can find everything that has ever been relevant in mankind relevant for today- the word is better than a horoscope, psychic, palm reader, tarot card rader, and all the rest- they cant tell you if you will take your next breath. finally, God is willing to stop evil, but he has to have mans' permission- he will not go aganst your will if you want to do evil, so don't blame God for what man chooses to do to himself or unfourtunately to others- it is his choice- God is relly only obligated to those who love and serve him- no one else.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 05:36:49 pm
First of all. to those who stand with me and defend the cross -thanks. There are those who call the bible fairy tales- have you read the bible?- have you even tried?- it doesn't make sense to those who will not accept that there is one who created the world and everything in it-people would rather believe we come from monkeys- how crazy is that? The bible is a history book, love book, family book, people book hope book book, peace book, friend book,future predictor, and even a book of judgement- but fairy tale- I don't think so- you don't want to accept that there is actually a book that tells you to live a moral life, love your neighbor, stay married, don't have sex outside of marriage- things we ought to do for the betterment of society, and to save our lives- see people don't like those rules, but they will follow other stupid silly rules that do't make sense to any rational person- the "so called" fairy tale is the best book to live by- it will change your life for the better if you let it. If you believe gut feeling comes from evolution, then you must believe you are an ape, because that's what evolution teaches. the bible outdated- you don't know of what you speak- you can find everything that has ever been relevant in mankind relevant for today- the word is better than a horoscope, psychic, palm reader, tarot card rader, and all the rest- they cant tell you if you will take your next breath. finally, God is willing to stop evil, but he has to have mans' permission- he will not go aganst your will if you want to do evil, so don't blame God for what man chooses to do to himself or unfourtunately to others- it is his choice- God is relly only obligated to those who love and serve him- no one else.

Tammyrwa, I support your right as a Christian as I'm one also.  Everything you said in your post has been said over and over before on different threads.  Sometimes you have to walk away because they will not hear.   Like you said, it's a choice.  I haven't done this enough myself.  I don't want God mocked, or his children dragged in the verbal mud anymore.  There really is a time where you stop, and turn it over to God, as He has it well in hand and will take it from there.  I'm doing this myself.  These conversations go in circles.  After the first circle, it's time to move on.  We believe the Bible and it's teachings, they don't.  We can't make them.  We present the "good news", and hope it's accepted.  Then it's out of our hands.  It's time to sow our seed somewhere else.  There's nothing wrong with having a debate, but negative disputations to the point of offense is not pleasing to God (not aimed at you at all).

Remember, the preaching of the Cross to those who perish, is foolishness.  What we have is so precious, and to be protected, as well as spread to the lost.  The Lord Bless you.

Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 05:43:01 pm
 :cat:  Stay strong, Tammy!!! You are doing great. I am another Christian, too.  I've also   :BangHead:  , too, so I know how you feel!    :wave: :heart:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Lusie on October 01, 2010, 06:15:29 pm
I believe the creator of that thread and Falconor went way too far with the R word. I mean I have a mild form of autism which means i'm retarded medically speaking!!!!!!! :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

In all honesty the R word offends me also. There is no such thing as being one. People only say this about those they know nothing about of that they fear.

The original meaning of Retard:

To retard something is to slow it down.  to keep back, hinder, or impede It was originally meant as a verb and was turned into a noun years later.

This is a very sad occurence. If any one has ever tried to actually get to know these people that they use the words on they would come to realize that they are very compassionate caring and yes intelligent people in their own ways. You could learn a lot from them. They can love and hate just as the rest of us. In essence they are no different than we are. If the word was to be used as a noun it should be used for every one. In some form or fashion each and every person has their problems such as what people look away from. Just some of these problems are easier to hide from the word than others are.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: philozex on October 01, 2010, 06:21:01 pm
Yes it is true as much of you have stated, stand your ground and stand up for what you believe. how ever are you good Christians and will you hate me when I say I am more Pagan then a follower of Yahweh.  I have studied the Bible, very much, and learned from followers and translations of the other two; Judaism and Islam.  It really makes me laugh the claim that they are all different. how ever know this the Christian Bible contradicts it's self the most.  This and the fact that it is so hard to find some one who will walk the path that Jesus laid out.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 06:26:57 pm
Yes it is true as much of you have stated, stand your ground and stand up for what you believe. how ever are you good Christians and will you hate me when I say I am more Pagan then a follower of Yahweh.  I have studied the Bible, very much, and learned from followers and translations of the other two; Judaism and Islam.  It really makes me laugh the claim that they are all different. how ever know this the Christian Bible contradicts it's self the most.  This and the fact that it is so hard to find some one who will walk the path that Jesus laid out.
I could never hate you just because you may have different views than I do.  You acknowledged that we should stand for what we feel, and you, in turn acknowledged what you feel or believe.  We totally differ on the Bible, apparently.  But hate?  Not me!!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 01, 2010, 06:27:38 pm
There are those who call the bible fairy tales- have you read the bible?

Yes I have; it's a major part of why I became an atheist.  Question back to you: have you read the WHOLE Bible, or just the feel-good parts taught in church?  Because I have a hard time believing any Christian who claims to adore such a book if they have truly read its entirety.

I know the dirty little secret of Christianity: most of you HAVEN'T read even 1/4 of the Bible!  As for you denying it contains fairy tales, I've got ten quick examples for you: dirtman, ribwoman, talking snake, cursed fruit, a boat for millions of animals, a giant man-eating fish, a "virgin" conception and birth, a talking donkey, a zombie savior, sticks and water transforming into snakes and blood...etc. etc.

Quote
it doesn't make sense to those who will not accept that there is one who created the world and everything in it

No, it just doesn't make sense period.  I have no problem with the possibility of a god...but the Bible proves your god doesn't exist.

Quote
people would rather believe we come from monkeys- how crazy is that?

How else do you explain 98% similar DNA?  Is god just lazy?

Quote
you don't want to accept that there is actually a book that tells you to live a moral life

There are many other books on this subject that do a far better job...

Quote
stay married, don't have sex outside of marriage- things we ought to do for the betterment of society, and to save our lives- see people don't like those rules, but they will follow other stupid silly rules that do't make sense to any rational person

Staying married to someone you're unhappy with is good for society??!  And NO sex outside of marriage -- that doesn't make sense to a rational person.  Why is god so concerned with people's sex lives, anyway?  There are far bigger fish to fry.

Quote
then you must believe you are an ape, because that's what evolution teaches.

Is it now?   :o  Hmm, and here I thought I was 100's of thousands of years removed from anything close to an ape; that I'm a homo sapien.  

People who believe in god should not be allowed to say anything at all related to a "knowledge" of evolution.  lol

Quote
the word is better than a horoscope, psychic, palm reader, tarot card rader, and all the rest

Actually, the Bible is pretty much on par with those in terms of validity.  lololol (joke you probably won't get) lollol
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 06:34:50 pm
Superiority and sarcasm at its best.  The only view that should be accepted.  NOT...
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 06:44:19 pm
Quote from queenofnines:
I know the dirty little secret of Christianity: most of you HAVEN'T read even 1/4 of the Bible!


For your information, qon, I have read the Bible.  I may not understand all those words and names, especially in the Old Testament, but have used Bible dictionaries and handbooks to find the meanings of words.  I also attended a Christian University where I had to take at least 13 courses in different aspects of the Bible, the history, other religions and cults, etc. Your "know it all" attitude is making you look foolish.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 07:00:37 pm
Quote from queenofnines:
I know the dirty little secret of Christianity: most of you HAVEN'T read even 1/4 of the Bible!


For your information, qon, I have read the Bible.  I may not understand all those words and names, especially in the Old Testament, but have used Bible dictionarys and handbooks to find the meanings of words.  I also attended a Christian University where I had to take at least 13 courses in different aspects of the Bible, the history, other religions and cults, etc. Your "know it all" attitude is making you look foolish.

She just throws stuff out there for shock effect, and to bait you.  She does look foolish.  Oh, the feel good parts are good, but the goodness also has a severity attached to it.  It's so easy to refute it, and call it fairy tales, then your not held responsible for what effect it has on your life...or afterlife.  Psst....here's the real shock....refute it all you want, you are still going to answer to it.  All of us are.  

You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!

Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 01, 2010, 07:04:46 pm
First of all. to those who stand with me and defend the cross -thanks. There are those who call the bible fairy tales- have you read the bible?- have you even tried?- it doesn't make sense to those who will not accept that there is one who created the world and everything in it-people would rather believe we come from monkeys- how crazy is that? The bible is a history book, love book, family book, people book hope book book, peace book, friend book,future predictor, and even a book of judgement- but fairy tale- I don't think so- you don't want to accept that there is actually a book that tells you to live a moral life, love your neighbor, stay married, don't have sex outside of marriage- things we ought to do for the betterment of society, and to save our lives- see people don't like those rules, but they will follow other stupid silly rules that do't make sense to any rational person- the "so called" fairy tale is the best book to live by- it will change your life for the better if you let it. If you believe gut feeling comes from evolution, then you must believe you are an ape, because that's what evolution teaches. the bible outdated- you don't know of what you speak- you can find everything that has ever been relevant in mankind relevant for today- the word is better than a horoscope, psychic, palm reader, tarot card rader, and all the rest- they cant tell you if you will take your next breath. finally, God is willing to stop evil, but he has to have mans' permission- he will not go aganst your will if you want to do evil, so don't blame God for what man chooses to do to himself or unfourtunately to others- it is his choice- God is relly only obligated to those who love and serve him- no one else.

I support your right as a Christian...even though I'm not there with you.  I believe in g-d, I believe g-d loves me, and I love g-d with everything I am.  I do not, though, agree with you on so many of the things you have said here, and while you weren't intending with your post directed toward me, you hurt me with your words.  You believe g-d gives us warnings via intuition; I don't.  I had an instinct to run away, and I ignored it.  This did not make the ensuing events my fault, nor did it make them g-d's fault.  There is only one person I blame for them, and he knows who he is.  My point in the discussion, in even bringing up what happened to me, was to say that it doesn't seem rational to me that the g-d I love who loves me in return would only warn me without removing me from the situation if g-d was present at all in the events that happened.  Any loving parent would not sit idly by while their child is hurt in such a manner if they had the power to stop it.  The more you try to explain it away, as you did in the above post (g-d has to have man's permission), the more it sounds like it is the end result of the person ignoring the "warning" and this is the farthest from the truth.

I am g-d's child.  I have a relationship with g-d. G-d is my spiritual parent, and I love and respect g-d.  But, I am also one of g-d's people Israel, meaning I wrestle with g-d and disagree with g-d at times.  G-d isn't obligated to anyone...and I doubt g-d expects much more from us than to respect and love g-d and our fellow humankind.  The rest...is up to interpretation.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 07:09:22 pm
Quote from queenofnines:
I know the dirty little secret of Christianity: most of you HAVEN'T read even 1/4 of the Bible!


For your information, qon, I have read the Bible.  I may not understand all those words and names, especially in the Old Testament, but have used Bible dictionarys and handbooks to find the meanings of words.  I also attended a Christian University where I had to take at least 13 courses in different aspects of the Bible, the history, other religions and cults, etc. Your "know it all" attitude is making you look foolish.

She just throws stuff out there for shock effect, and to bait you.  She does look foolish.  Oh, the feel good parts are good, but the goodness also has a severity attached to it.  It's so easy to refute it, and call it fairy tales, then your not held responsible for what effect it has on your life...or afterlife.  Psst....here's the real shock....refute it all you want, you are still going to answer to it.  All of us are.  

You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!
Something else: Why does she seem to think it's a dirty secret and little secret!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?  Is there something she thinks she knows that everyone else does not know?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 01, 2010, 07:23:21 pm
You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!

And you said I was the foolish one?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 07:24:19 pm
Yes it is true as much of you have stated, stand your ground and stand up for what you believe. how ever are you good Christians and will you hate me when I say I am more Pagan then a follower of Yahweh.  I have studied the Bible, very much, and learned from followers and translations of the other two; Judaism and Islam.  It really makes me laugh the claim that they are all different. how ever know this the Christian Bible contradicts it's self the most.  This and the fact that it is so hard to find some one who will walk the path that Jesus laid out.

Being pagan is your choice.  Our choice is to believe the Bible and be Christ's followers.  The Bible, Judaism and Islam have a few similar teachings, but Islam then branches off to their own teachings.  As in everyone that is no Muslim is an infidel, and should be put to death.  The Jews only have the Old Testament as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, and reject the New Testament.  Have you actually studied the Bible in the Hebrew and Greek translations and definitions?

The Bible does not contradict its self.  In fact, scripture interprets scripture.  I'd like to address where you see contradictions in the Bible.  I'd be happy to go through them with you one by one.

What path are you referring to that Jesus laid out for us to walk?  So what your saying is that there are no true Christians?  I beg to differ.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 07:27:34 pm
Quote from queenofnines:
I know the dirty little secret of Christianity: most of you HAVEN'T read even 1/4 of the Bible!


For your information, qon, I have read the Bible.  I may not understand all those words and names, especially in the Old Testament, but have used Bible dictionarys and handbooks to find the meanings of words.  I also attended a Christian University where I had to take at least 13 courses in different aspects of the Bible, the history, other religions and cults, etc. Your "know it all" attitude is making you look foolish.

She just throws stuff out there for shock effect, and to bait you.  She does look foolish.  Oh, the feel good parts are good, but the goodness also has a severity attached to it.  It's so easy to refute it, and call it fairy tales, then your not held responsible for what effect it has on your life...or afterlife.  Psst....here's the real shock....refute it all you want, you are still going to answer to it.  All of us are.  

You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!
Something else: Why does she seem to think it's a dirty secret and little secret!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?  Is there something she thinks she knows that everyone else does not know?

She wants people to think she's the authority.....pffffft  Yeah right!  I just made a play on her own words.  there's nothing dirty or secret about us, as God is who we follow.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 07:28:50 pm
You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!

And you said I was the foolish one?

Well, time will tell now won't it.......and time's running out in this life.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 08:11:02 pm
You know what I think your dirty little secret is?  Deep inside you know it's true, and it scares you to death!!

And you said I was the foolish one?

Well, time will tell now won't it.......and time's running out in this life.
Time will definitely tell, that's for sure...
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: shernajwine on October 01, 2010, 08:24:53 pm
I hope time will tell that queen turned her heart towards God and I see her in eternity. That's my prayer  :)
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: candynelms on October 01, 2010, 08:26:16 pm
i believe in God. to each his own. you may not believe but you are the one who has to answer in the end. it may not be to God himself, but it will be to someone. i don't condemn any one for their beliefs. everyone is intitled to their opinion. just cause someone says it doesn't make them stupid or ignorant. it just means that they were raised differnt from you. and if you truely believe in God you would know not to judge others. i ain't trying to make anyone mad. i am just saying what i was taught. :peace: :heart:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 01, 2010, 08:32:47 pm
I hope time will tell that queen turned her heart towards God and I see her in eternity. That's my prayer  :)

We all hope all will be saved, as God said, He's not willing that ANY should perish.  Unfortunately it will not be so.  However, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he reap.  That goes for us as Christians also, if it doesn't get put under the blood.

The Bible even tells us, not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will be saved.  Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make it so.  Our lives have to be single unto God and His Word.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 01, 2010, 09:23:03 pm
putain d'attention
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 01, 2010, 09:55:45 pm
Quote
I have a hard time believing that a g-d that I love and who loves me in return would give me a warning like that and do nothing else to prevent the horrible thing that happened from happening

I was raped at 12 by my boyfriend and I was a virgin. Sometimes, I wonder why God did nothing if he is there, it is easier to just think he isn't there and that is why it happend.

Marie, I am very sorry that happened to you.  I hope you have been able to achieve the victory over it and are in a much better place.  I won't go into detail, but I did have something similar happen in my life.  With Christian counselors, friends, family, and my Lord, I am doing okay today and have been able to help a few in similar situations just letting them know that they will be okay.  It's still hard, sometimes, and that situation contributed to my being shy, reserved,  and introverted.  But, I have come a long way from then.  Hang in there!  
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 02, 2010, 05:48:18 am
Quote from:
She wants people to think she's the authority.....pffffft  Yeah right!

And you must think you're some kind of authority for speaking for me?

.....and time's running out in this life.

Maybe for you, lol.  Okay, now THAT was blatantly insensitive.   ;D

This whole situation can be compared to the second grader who says, "Look guys, there's no Santa Claus, you know" and the other kids go, "Don't say that!  Yes there IS a Santa!!  You're MEAN!!!"  They can think the kid who pointed out that there's no Santa is mean, but that doesn't mean he isn't right!

I want to know why every time I point out the obvious faults of what another has said (like tammy alluding that horoscopes/tarot cards have any validity), the new M.O. from the Christian crew is to gang up on and criticize me?  I think it's because I've continually de-valued what you all value, and most people naturally tend to get offended by that.  I've spoken too directly, too bluntly, too brashly for the average person's taste (not like it would matter much if I was as sweet as a sugar cookie; if there's an anti-god message in there, I must be evil).

There was a time months ago when jcribb, Falconer, and I were actually having decent, civil conversation in another thread; there was also a time when Sherna described me as precious, intelligent, and special.  Why do you both suddenly take all that back?  Because I've continued to pushed the envelope to an unacceptable level?

You have to understand my side that I am simply speaking out against something I know is wrong, something that is hurting humanity more than helping it.  Why would you expect me to be ultra-respectful of something that requires a permanent brain sacrifice?  (That isn't to say you guys aren't smart, but I know where you are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion).
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: FuzzyCottonsocks on October 02, 2010, 06:25:49 am
Wasn't this locked yesterday?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 02, 2010, 07:43:58 am
Wasn't this locked yesterday?
She will eventually delete this topic as she is known to do.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 02, 2010, 08:36:05 am
Responding to queenofnine's post:

Yes, you finally came out honestly and admitted what is the truth.  You have definitely tried to de-value our belief in God.  You must know by now, also, that it will not work.  I have really enjoyed debating/discussing/chatting with you, that is surely the truth.  But when you continually kept pushing the de-value button and got sarcastic, and kept making our beliefs (not us or me, personally) look stupid, foolish, etc., that's when my "Irish Ire" stepped in and said, "Enough is enough. Listen to this and listen good."  You may feel our beliefs are wrong, and that's okay.  I wholeheartedly get your picture.  But, I am asking, please, to stop being that way and accept my beliefs for me. That's why I started coming back at you the way I have, because it seemed you were not listening to my side, but instead always cutting it down, cutting it off, and trying to make me look like a fool to other readers on here.  You have got to remember, too, that readers are able to decipher through these posts and see who's debating, who's arguing, and who's being just downright selfish and mean.

I do want to debate/discuss/chat (as I call it) with you on several different subjects.  You have intelligent ideas and sensible arguments.  But, apparently religion is one area that we need to agree to disagree that we believe differently and move on. If not, then we need to make our debate on this subject more adult and accommodating of each other's beliefs.

I haven't gone into as much detail as I could on the subject of Christianity, the Bible, Atheism, other religions and cults, etc., but just didn't feel right to get too technical on here.  There is such a much larger picture of all of this that started at the beginning of Creation and goes through today.  Thank you for being honest in your post and I hope my answer is sensible as well.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 02, 2010, 08:57:49 am
Quote from queenofnines:
You have to understand my side that I am simply speaking out against something I know is wrong, something that is hurting humanity more than helping it.  Why would you expect me to be ultra-respectful of something that requires a permanent brain sacrifice?  (That isn't to say you guys aren't smart, but I know where you are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion).

I do understand your side and have to disagree with you, here.  What I believe is right, however, I do not agree with the weirdos that take Christianity and twist it where it hurts people, ideals, etc.  I don't believe they are deep down heartfelt Christians because true God-believing Christians don't work that way.  We, as true God-believing Christians, are plainly wanting to live for the Lord, introduce others to Him, meet with our church family and friends, grow spiritually, etc., and look forward to spending eternity with Him.  I totally don't agree with those people who are claiming to be Christian, but do things that are contrary to Christian values.

Also, there are so many sects of Christianity that are all different in many ways.  It's such a shame that people (like you, for example) can't see through these differences and instead lay blame at one entire lump of sects, when that is clearly not the case.  I believe you are honestly thinking the right things, you just need to aim it at specific sects/religions than the whole lump.  That's when I kick in on disagreeing with you.

The other remark about "knowing where we are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion." is speaking for me in terms of knowledge and superiority that is not correct.  I know where I stand, and have the research, studies, and experience in certain areas to back me up.  That kind of remark is what riles people up and then they spark back at you.  I know where you are coming from, but instead, maybe you could show ideas and/or proofs of what you actually believe and why you believe that (which of course would be the opposite of Christianty.)
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 02, 2010, 09:36:36 am
You speak it as if it is fact and it isn't.

Just because myths are kept alive and sincerely believed by many does not mean they're true in the slightest.  Using your reasoning, we couldn't say walking on the moon or the Holocaust are fact because there are some wackos out there with strictly-held beliefs that these events didn't happen.

Quote
There is a God

"You speak it as if it is fact and it isn't".  Right back at ya, Elissa!  Somehow there seems to be a double standard where religious people are allowed to speak in guarantees...when it's quite clear that their specific deity ISN'T fact.  It'll be fact the day that god audibly/visually speaks to the whole world at once, making it undeniably clear that he/she/it exists and what he/she/it wants (and continues to do this on a regular basis, lest he be labeled a One Hit Wonder).  So far...hasn't happened.  Man continues on in vain creating its own gods and starting wars over them.

Quote
Santa was said to live at the North pole and well...he place aint invisible so...we know he aint real.

lol  So Santa has to have invisible qualities to be real?  But of course!  Because then, like god, no one can prove him wrong because he conveniently escapes sensible testing!

Quote
There is a Santa Claus, he was a real person but he has been dead for a long time.

There *might* have been a Jesus character who was a real person, but he has been dead for a long time.  ;)

Quote from: jcribb16
The other remark about "knowing where we are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion." is speaking for me in terms of knowledge and superiority that is not correct.

Knowledge: stemming from my very real experience as a Christian myself and interacting with other Christians.  Superiority: I can see how many of my statements may come across as sounding superior; however, it's more like my encouraging people to let go of their nonsense security blankets.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 02, 2010, 10:29:36 am
Annella:
Quote
The Bible, Judaism and Islam have a few similar teachings, but Islam then branches off to their own teachings.  As in everyone that is no Muslim is an infidel, and should be put to death.

There you go again with the Muslim/infidel/kill them all. Not every follower of Islam believes and/or feels that those who do not follow their beliefs ie an 'infidel' should be put to death! You are speaking for an entire religion right there and you are NOT a follower of that religion. Visiting a country for a few weeks, months does NOT give you a full insight into its' people - you have said that yourself and specifically to queenofnines. Reading another religions holy books does NOT give you full insight into that religion and how ALL followers of it view other people. Picking and choosing which suras from the Quran YOU want to use to reinforce the point of killing all infidels is doing exactly what you call others out on when it comes to Bible interpretation, but it is perfectly okay for you to do exactly that. Example? How many times have we all discussed passages from the Bible that speak of horrendous things that should be done as a result of a person's actions? It is always countered with they applied to the time in which they were written, it is from the OT, so it is not the same today, on and on. So, what again gives YOU the 'right' to say anything about another religion?

jcribb wrote this:"What I believe is right, however, I do not agree with the weirdos that take Christianity and twist it where it hurts people, ideals, etc.  I don't believe they are deep down heartfelt Christians because true God-believing Christians don't work that way."
Are you not doing that very same thing ie taking the Islamic religion, it's holy book, and twisting it's words so that it hurts the people, their ideals etc.? I work beside many Islamics, have for many years, and they are some of the most peaceful and loving people I have known. I said before, when we were discussing the Suras regarding 'infidels', that those were written during the time of a religious war/uprising within countries, the religion, and their peoples. That those 'rules' no longer apply to everyone of the Islamic religion today. You countered with the fact you knew that they still believe that today and use it to justify killings. So tell me, how is that any different than the 'weirdos' mentioned by jcribb that twist the Bible to fit THEIR agendas here in America? It's not, but you do not see it that way. You detest all Christians being lumped together, but it is fine to do that if it is another religion and I am not saying it is done only with regard to the Islamic. It has come up in other threads, about other religions/beliefs, and in other ways too. Whether you know it or not, that is how you come across. I believe what I am getting at with my words was stated very well and very clearly by jcribb when she said this:"Also, there are so many sects of Christianity that are all different in many ways.  It's such a shame that people (like you, for example) can't see through these differences and instead lay blame at one entire lump of sects, when that is clearly not the case.  I believe you are honestly thinking the right things, you just need to aim it at specific sects/religions than the whole lump."

I happen to agree 100% with what jcribb said. I may no longer be a Christian, but I do not and never have, liked or agreed with lumping 'everyone together' in anything. It is not right to do so and I stand by that 100%. I have gotten myself into hot water by speaking out against that very thing many times, but I won't change or back off from how I feel. I am NOT applying it to queen because I am not putting her into this equation. She has had enough attacks on her, whether you feel you are right in doing that is up to you, but I am NOT putting myself in the middle - it's her right to defend herself, not mine. For the record, my words re Islams are here to point out the HUGE discrepancy you exhibit. It has nothing to do with my feelings on 9/11 or anything else, so please do NOT confuse the two and bring that into this.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 02, 2010, 06:06:18 pm
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Quote from:
She wants people to think she's the authority.....pffffft  Yeah right!

And you must think you're some kind of authority for speaking for me?

Quote from: Annella on October 01, 2010, 07:28:50 pm
.....and time's running out in this life.

Maybe for you, lol.  Okay, now THAT was blatantly insensitive.

To qon: I was answering to someone else about how I viewed what you were trying to imply.  Not speaking for you.

Oh, I know I'm reaching the "golden years", and happy to be approaching there.  Like I told Walksalone on another thread.  There are times I'm just tired, and want to go home.....and I do.  I have no qualms about leaving this old earth.  I look forward to it at times.


To jordondog:  We've been over this Islam/Muslim conversation over and over.  I've studied it...you've studied it. We come out with 2 different opinions.....so what?  No 2 people agree on everything in the world.  You and I disagree on just about 99.99% of just about everything written on this forum.  Since we are both entitled to our own opinion.......well.........  However, That small percentage of resting and eating ice cream is one thing I agree with you about....lol

I'm getting my own website up, working the design at the present time, and lining up sponsors.  I won't be around much after that, as it will have a Forum also, that I will need to keep an eye on myself.  I'll be in and out here only to earn my $3.

Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: shernajwine on October 02, 2010, 07:03:06 pm
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Sherna described me as precious, intelligent, and special.

You are precious, intelligent, and special. Just because we have debated and you frustrated me doesn't change that. Everyone I love frustrates me and even makes me  :BangHead: sometimes lol. I'm human, what can I say!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 02, 2010, 07:38:30 pm
Just because we have debated and you frustrated me doesn't change that.

Well that's nice to know.  :)  I thought as the result of heated debate, maybe you stopped liking me.  lol
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 02, 2010, 09:02:10 pm
Quote from: jcribb16
The other remark about "knowing where we are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion." is speaking for me in terms of knowledge and superiority that is not correct.

Quote from: queenofnines
Knowledge: stemming from my very real experience as a Christian myself and interacting with other Christians.  Superiority: I can see how many of my statements may come across as sounding superior; however, it's more like my encouraging people to let go of their nonsense security blankets.

I don't necessarily disagree with your knowledge from your experience as a Christian and interacting with other Christians.  What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.  I could never turn my back on Him like that, so something must have happened to make you want to change.  I have my knowledge as a Christian, too, as well as my interactions with other Christians that are of like beliefs.  I have not even come near to the change you made from Christian to non-christian.

With your superiority comment, at least you do admit "may come across as sounding superior."  However, you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.  My beliefs are not "nonsense security blankets" just as your atheism beliefs to you are not "nonsense security blankets."  I could say that they are, but it is not my business to call your beliefs names.  It's my business to continue my life for my Lord in the way of my beliefs.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 02, 2010, 10:46:06 pm
Quote from: jcribb16
The other remark about "knowing where we are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion." is speaking for me in terms of knowledge and superiority that is not correct.

Quote from: queenofnines
Knowledge: stemming from my very real experience as a Christian myself and interacting with other Christians.  Superiority: I can see how many of my statements may come across as sounding superior; however, it's more like my encouraging people to let go of their nonsense security blankets.

I don't necessarily disagree with your knowledge from your experience as a Christian and interacting with other Christians.  What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.  I could never turn my back on Him like that, so something must have happened to make you want to change.  I have my knowledge as a Christian, too, as well as my interactions with other Christians that are of like beliefs.  I have not even come near to the change you made from Christian to non-christian.

With your superiority comment, at least you do admit "may come across as sounding superior."  However, you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.  My beliefs are not "nonsense security blankets" just as your atheism beliefs to you are not "nonsense security blankets."  I could say that they are, but it is not my business to call your beliefs names.  It's my business to continue my life for my Lord in the way of my beliefs.

Wow Jcribb...excellent post!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 03, 2010, 12:01:19 am
Quote from: jcribb16
The other remark about "knowing where we are in terms of not being able to examine the most crucial problems of your religion." is speaking for me in terms of knowledge and superiority that is not correct.

Quote from: queenofnines
Knowledge: stemming from my very real experience as a Christian myself and interacting with other Christians.  Superiority: I can see how many of my statements may come across as sounding superior; however, it's more like my encouraging people to let go of their nonsense security blankets.

I don't necessarily disagree with your knowledge from your experience as a Christian and interacting with other Christians.  What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.  I could never turn my back on Him like that, so something must have happened to make you want to change.  I have my knowledge as a Christian, too, as well as my interactions with other Christians that are of like beliefs.  I have not even come near to the change you made from Christian to non-christian.

With your superiority comment, at least you do admit "may come across as sounding superior."  However, you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.  My beliefs are not "nonsense security blankets" just as your atheism beliefs to you are not "nonsense security blankets."  I could say that they are, but it is not my business to call your beliefs names.  It's my business to continue my life for my Lord in the way of my beliefs.

Wow Jcribb...excellent post!
Thank you, Annella!  It's the truth!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 03, 2010, 07:03:33 am
What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.

I'd much rather have people think this way than exclaim, "You were never a true Christian!!!"  I was also a vegetarian for 3.5 years and now I'm not; does that mean I was never a true vegetarian??

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you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 03, 2010, 07:38:23 am
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To jordondog:  We've been over this Islam/Muslim conversation over and over.  I've studied it...you've studied it. We come out with 2 different opinions.....so what?  No 2 people agree on everything in the world.  You and I disagree on just about 99.99% of just about everything written on this forum.  Since we are both entitled to our own opinion.......well.........  However, That small percentage of resting and eating ice cream is one thing I agree with you about....lol

Well, I will say you did what I expected you to do. You took the one thing I asked you to regard as an example and instead made it your focus. Go ahead and justify your own criticism of religions and beliefs outside your chosen few that make the grade. Go ahead and disregard the superiority you give to Christian beliefs and the Bible. If you got honest, you would see what that entire post I made was saying, and NOT pick and choose the one piece you wanted to look at. I am willing to bet their are others who DID see what I was saying, but they are too afraid to go against you and speak up about it. It's a no-no for someone to bring up atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, because those are 'flukes'. It is perfectly okay though to label another's as 'what they all do and believe'. What a joke.

Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 03, 2010, 08:53:12 am
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To jordondog:  We've been over this Islam/Muslim conversation over and over.  I've studied it...you've studied it. We come out with 2 different opinions.....so what?  No 2 people agree on everything in the world.  You and I disagree on just about 99.99% of just about everything written on this forum.  Since we are both entitled to our own opinion.......well.........  However, That small percentage of resting and eating ice cream is one thing I agree with you about....lol

Well, I will say you did what I expected you to do. You took the one thing I asked you to regard as an example and instead made it your focus. Go ahead and justify your own criticism of religions and beliefs outside your chosen few that make the grade. Go ahead and disregard the superiority you give to Christian beliefs and the Bible. If you got honest, you would see what that entire post I made was saying, and NOT pick and choose the one piece you wanted to look at. I am willing to bet their are others who DID see what I was saying, but they are too afraid to go against you and speak up about it. It's a no-no for someone to bring up atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, because those are 'flukes'. It is perfectly okay though to label another's as 'what they all do and believe'. What a joke.

Your entitled to your opinion.....
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 03, 2010, 10:31:53 am
What troubles me, is that I have to wonder what happened to change that deep down relationship you had with Christ.

I'd much rather have people think this way than exclaim, "You were never a true Christian!!!"  I was also a vegetarian for 3.5 years and now I'm not; does that mean I was never a true vegetarian??

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you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.

Though i'm not atheist, i'll have to agree with the atheistic avril look-alike here. It's true due to the faults hey'll be leadership issues. However if you were with the original 12 tribes of Israel in bible times, would you leave them because the king failed to lead his tribe?  Before you make that decision know that you will b turning your back on God's arrangement.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 03, 2010, 02:42:17 pm
Quote from jcribb:
you then turn around and call our beliefs "nonsense security blankets."  That is uncalled for.

Quote from queenofnines:
So religion doesn't deserve to be criticized?  You have to understand that I'm not attacking YOU; I'm sure you're a perfectly nice believer whose personal Christianity does not negatively affect others.  However, dogmatic religions on the whole cause unthinkable problems, and the less people who are involved in them, the less power is given to the atrocities that are committed in religion's name.  I'm doing my part to plant the seeds of critical thinking, for humanity's sake.  Sometimes that involves being very direct with people.  Instead of getting offended that I said an ill word about your deeply-held beliefs, think about WHY I am saying the ill words, and be honest with yourself that things like, "She's mad at god" are not valid answers.

I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Here are a couple of questions, or statements that are examples (that have been asked of me or put to me) that would qualify "seeds of critical thinking":
  1.  The Bible is full of contradictions. (List the problems you see and I will try to answer and show why it is not a contradiction.  I use 1 Peter 3:15-16 to help remind me of my defense mode.): "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear, Having a good conscience, that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation (manner of life) in Christ."

  2.  Why do you think the Bible is the Word of God? Prove it.  (Part of my answer involves the fulfilled prophecies that have already come to pass, are happening, and will happen.)

   3. I was a Christian and changed my mind. (Well, first off, were you saved because you went to church, or were you saved as you accepted Jesus in your heart as your personal Savior?  If the first, then you were probably not saved in the first place, because works don't save you. Jesus does, when you acknowledge Him as Savior.  If you were really saved, then you are still saved, and in a manner of God's time and works, He will eventually deal with you in such a way as to bring you back into fellowship with Him.)  Usually this leads to further debate regarding this.
 
I could add more, but by asking questions instead of name-calling our beliefs, you will find people are much more willing to debate because their input to them (or me) is as valuable to me as yours is to you.  It makes a big difference in how we are both affected.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: tammyrwa on October 03, 2010, 05:52:10 pm
First of all, for those who feel as if the message is not penetrating the minds and hearts of people- it is, working because we are having this discussion with non- believers of Jesus.m To the girl who was raped, i feel sorry for you- were too young to have a boyfriend anyway- I hope you prosecuted him- wrer you warned not to be with him?- did you have a feeling that you weren't supposed to be with him- don't blame god for the actions of a person who knew right from wrong. What's wrong with keeping yourself celibate?what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?. Don't use names like retard- keep the discussion on a mature level. I read the bible front to back. I am  reading the whole thing again-I don't have a problem with it  at all- it sure beats some of the other silly stupid stuff people are reading under the guise of intellectualism- I would read a book called the bible- if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told. it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal- if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both. How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense. I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved- it has to be a heart experience, not a head experience. you can criticize Christianity all you want,just check it out with real evidence what you think. Vegetarianism and Chistianity aren't the same- you can't compare the two- vegtarianism has to do with the natural, and Christianity has to do with the spiritual- if you decide you don't want to be vegetarian anymore, you just change your eating habits- Christianity is different- you don't just walk away- it's not that simple- you might falter,where you break fellowship with God but, you walk away from him, but he  doesn't walk away from you- you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 03, 2010, 06:23:39 pm
First of all, for those who feel as if the message is not penetrating the minds and hearts of people- it is, working because we are having this discussion with non- believers of Jesus.m To the girl who was raped, i feel sorry for you- were too young to have a boyfriend anyway- I hope you prosecuted him- wrer you warned not to be with him?- did you have a feeling that you weren't supposed to be with him- don't blame god for the actions of a person who knew right from wrong. What's wrong with keeping yourself celibate?what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?. Don't use names like retard- keep the discussion on a mature level. I read the bible front to back. I am  reading the whole thing again-I don't have a problem with it  at all- it sure beats some of the other silly stupid stuff people are reading under the guise of intellectualism- I would read a book called the bible- if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told. it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal- if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both. How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense. I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved- it has to be a heart experience, not a head experience. you can criticize Christianity all you want,just check it out with real evidence what you think. Vegetarianism and Chistianity aren't the same- you can't compare the two- vegtarianism has to do with the natural, and Christianity has to do with the spiritual- if you decide you don't want to be vegetarian anymore, you just change your eating habits- Christianity is different- you don't just walk away- it's not that simple- you might falter,where you break fellowship with God but, you walk away from him, but he  doesn't walk away from you- you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.

It is much more difficult than you think to "change your eating habits" when a vegetarian.  I've been one for fifteen years...if I eat even a bite of anything that was cooked with meat, fried in the same oil, or stirred with the same spoon I get ill...whether or not I knew it was done.

I can see you are new to this forum.  I can also see that nothing will change your mind.  As for your comments on evolution...QON said it best.  Americans originally came from Europe...but why are there still Europeans?  The monkey argument is the most upheld and possibly one of the weakest arguments against evolution there is.  There is much discussion about it through these pages...it might do you some good to skim over them.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: shernajwine on October 03, 2010, 07:47:14 pm
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I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Excellent post jcribb. I have tried to say this same thing but haven't said it near as well, and without pent up frustration in my fingers lol.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 03, 2010, 08:11:01 pm
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I agree you have the right to criticize religion, just as I have the right to criticize atheism.  But the "seeds of critical thinking" need to be questions or statements that challenge the belief, or events of Christian/non-christian history, not remarks, such as "nonsense security blankets," or "delusional...", etc.  All you are doing is mocking and stirring up people's anger.

Excellent post jcribb. I have tried to say this same thing but haven't said it near as well, and without pent up frustration in my fingers lol.  :thumbsup:

Thanks, Sherna.  Actually, regarding these later posts, I was more calm when writing them.  The others I spouted off in because of the feeling of not being listened to.  Then, queenofnines posted a response to someone and actually opened up about why she says some of the things she does, and admitted to a couple of things that were put to her.  That's when my "ire" calmed down. Also when she commented on the way she, Falconer, and I used to debate in a better way, and the part to you about your compliments to her, I changed my way of thinking about how to approach things on here.  Religion, whether it's combined with any other topic (ex. homosexuality, etc.) or not, is going to get heated. But things were getting way too heated and actually getting kind of ugly.  Hopefully, we can get back to a better debating conversation, with no-nonsense questions, answers, and rebuttals.  
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: freepcmoney on October 04, 2010, 05:19:06 am
Well, you might be a RETARD, IF you let what THEY SAY about your belief in God really bother you, OR afect your belief and service to God. CERTAINLY NOT A TRUE BELIEVER.

A BELIEF IS NOT MERELY AN IDEA THAT THE MIND POSSESSES; IT IS AN IDEA THAT POSSESSES THE MIND!!!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 04, 2010, 07:08:51 am
what's the problem with being promiscuous?- out of wedlock pregnancy,sexually transmitted diseases- need any more reasons?.

So if you have sex outside of marriage at all you are a *bleep*?  Sorry, but that's kind of what you're making it sound like by using the term "promiscuous".  Kids don't save marriages; they wreck a lot of them.  STDs and preggers are not something one really has to worry about if they are responsible (modern contraception - it's a beautiful thing!).  Obviously a lot of people are not responsible...being married makes no difference.

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if it a fairy tale,it's the greatest one ever told.

Hmm, I think Disney movies are far better fairy tales than the Bible because a least they don't promote slavery, rape, murder, incest, or eternal punishment.

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it is easier to believe in a God who created everything, than to believe we came from animal

Do you know what the characteristic of a mammal are?  You might want to look that up, because you are one.

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if that was the case then why do we still have humans and apes- if  we truly came from apes, then there would be  one species(human) or another(apes) -not both.

We did not come from apes.  We share a common ancestor - as does all life on Earth.  We split off into different species and evolved at different rates, adapting to our unique environments.  Does that make sense now??

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How does an animal have a human?- I have never seen that happen in my life- how does an animal turn into a human- that doesn't make sense.

I think people are joking when they say stuff like this (no offense).  I guess it just goes to show the poor, poor state of our education system.

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I agree with the person who said  that the person who changed their mind about being a Christian was never saved

I know the reason you are saying this is because you simply **can't imagine** how millions have realized the B.S. and left your religion.  It's like when you have kids and the well-off couple with lots of freedom doesn't, you can't understand why they don't want to be in your club; why they don't like what you like.  The point is I know what your feelings are (how could anyone stop believing in god??), but the way many Christians present this feeling only makes them look like judgmental, condescending jerks.

Oh, you think you can speak for our past experience, can you?  You think you have the authority to judge and label what atheists went through without having been there yourself?  You think you know better than the ex-Christian knows themself?

Is it that hard to admit, "Atheists who used to believe came across realizations/knowledge that resulted in their departure from religion.  I'm not sure what those realizations were, but I'm all comfy and cozy with this idea of heaven, so it doesn't matter."  ??

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you don't just walk away- it's not that simple

Normally it's more of a process...like a slow realization of things over time.

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you are his forever- once you truly accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.

So many of the people you think are going to hell actually aren't.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 04, 2010, 07:15:27 am
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Hmm, I think Disney movies are far better fairy tales than the Bible because a least they don't promote slavery, rape, murder, incest, or eternal punishment.

Hell No, Living in heaven for eternity and seeing all your loved ones and friends and having everything you want wins hand down.

lol  You just kind of admitted that heaven is a fairy tale (or at least sounds like one).
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: queenofnines on October 04, 2010, 08:09:14 am
And just a quick history lesson: Hammurabi's Code predates the Bible by at least 1,000 years and contains all three of those laws.  So no, you don't get to claim that the Bible has ANYTHING to do with our laws.

Atheist comic from my hubby that relates to this:  ;)


(http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/thegoldenrule.jpg) (http://"http://www.atheistcartoons.com/?attachment_id=3702")
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 04, 2010, 08:14:01 am
You're scared of hell aren't you?

Not in the slightest.

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Well you should be but why do you keep bringing hell up? Who are you trying to convince, Us or yourself?

Why do you all keep ignoring it?  It's a horrible aspect of your religion, and you know it!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 04, 2010, 09:01:20 am
You're scared of hell aren't you?

Not in the slightest.

Quote
Well you should be but why do you keep bringing hell up? Who are you trying to convince, Us or yourself?

Why do you all keep ignoring it?  It's a horrible aspect of your religion, and you know it!


And going to jail is a horrible aspect of life...um, yeah so

Wow, that's a well thought out comeback! ;D   At the very least we all know jails actually exist. ;)
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 04, 2010, 09:27:29 am
Quote from queenofnines:
We did not come from apes.  We share a common ancestor - as does all life on Earth.  We split off into different species and evolved at different rates, adapting to our unique environments.  Does that make sense now??

Would you please clarify how you say we split off into different species? I totally get the "biological classification" and "taxonomic rank" so I know the line-up on that.  And if we supposedly all started off from 1 organism, then who made the organism in the first place? It sure didn't just appear without a deity of some kind creating it.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 04, 2010, 10:33:22 am
Quote from queenofnines:
We did not come from apes.  We share a common ancestor - as does all life on Earth.  We split off into different species and evolved at different rates, adapting to our unique environments.  Does that make sense now??

Would you please clarify how you say we split off into different species? I totally get the "biological classification" and "taxonomic rank" so I know the line-up on that.  And if we supposedly all started off from 1 organism, then who made the organism in the first place? It sure didn't just appear without a deity of some kind creating it.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8968/634w.jpg)
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 04, 2010, 12:32:38 pm
Quote from queenofnines:
We did not come from apes.  We share a common ancestor - as does all life on Earth.  We split off into different species and evolved at different rates, adapting to our unique environments.  Does that make sense now??

Would you please clarify how you say we split off into different species? I totally get the "biological classification" and "taxonomic rank" so I know the line-up on that.  And if we supposedly all started off from 1 organism, then who made the organism in the first place? It sure didn't just appear without a deity of some kind creating it.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8968/634w.jpg)

You've got that right!!!!!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 04, 2010, 01:10:22 pm
You're scared of hell aren't you?

Not in the slightest.

Quote
Well you should be but why do you keep bringing hell up? Who are you trying to convince, Us or yourself?

Why do you all keep ignoring it?  It's a horrible aspect of your religion, and you know it!
Ok, I think I understand her a little better now. Other then the hypocritical synagogue of Satan she grew up at she needs three things.


Someone to show her and teach her the validity of the bile stones and all.

2. To tell her why the malediction(slavary, wars etc) was needed and then tell her how the blessings(rewards) overshadow it all.

3.  Show her according to the bible that hell is just the common grave of mankind, people get resurrected out of hell.

I'll work on the third one you guys(the christians) work on the first too ok??!!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 04, 2010, 05:54:38 pm
Ok, I think I understand her a little better now. Other then the hypocritical synagogue of Satan she grew up at she needs three things.

Are you referring to me?  If so, your reply looks quite wacky as I wasn't raised in ANY religion.

Quote
Someone to show her and teach her the validity of the bile stones and all.

The Bible is too riddled with contradictions, logical fallacies, scientific inconsistencies, man-made adaptions, anonymity, plagiarism, human barbarism, etc. to be classified anywhere near the category of "valid".

Quote
To tell her why the malediction(slavary, wars etc) was needed

Yes, because that's THE BEST an all-powerful creator of the universe could do!

Quote
Show her according to the bible that hell is just the common grave of mankind, people get resurrected out of hell.

So you're saying I only have to suffer for 9485723618821879210 years before heavenly father forgives me?  Aw, what a sweetheart.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Falconer02 on October 04, 2010, 06:15:20 pm
Quote
Ok, I think I understand her a little better now. Other then the hypocritical synagogue of Satan she grew up at she needs three things.


Someone to show her and teach her the validity of the bile stones and all.

2. To tell her why the malediction(slavary, wars etc) was needed and then tell her how the blessings(rewards) overshadow it all.

3.  Show her according to the bible that hell is just the common grave of mankind, people get resurrected out of hell.

I'll work on the third one you guys(the christians) work on the first too ok??!!!

*sigh*  :angry7:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 05, 2010, 09:49:53 am
Ok, I think I understand her a little better now. Other then the hypocritical synagogue of Satan she grew up at she needs three things.

Are you referring to me?  If so, your reply looks quite wacky as I wasn't raised in ANY religion.

Quote
Someone to show her and teach her the validity of the bile stones and all.

The Bible is too riddled with contradictions, logical fallacies, scientific inconsistencies, man-made adaptions, anonymity, plagiarism, human barbarism, etc. to be classified anywhere near the category of "valid".

Quote
To tell her why the malediction(slavary, wars etc) was needed

Yes, because that's THE BEST an all-powerful creator of the universe could do!

Quote
Show her according to the bible that hell is just the common grave of mankind, people get resurrected out of hell.

So you're saying I only have to suffer for 9485723618821879210 years before heavenly father forgives me?  Aw, what a sweetheart.

No you don't suffer that's actually not true you just sleep for all eternity, no burning in hellfire or anything like that, unless you turn to god, then you can live forever.

Ask one question at a time(be a sarcastic and condescending as you want) but ask one question none thless and i'll answer it the best I can^_^
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 05, 2010, 09:57:25 am
i understand religion is a hot topic. But to get nasty in a debate. instead of being open with ones opinion. :-[
If someone doesnt believe in hell and you do, to sit there and say they will rot in it, what will that accomplish?
to show your nasty side?
i admit i do it too,by doing it too i mean get heated and try to pursuade a person to my beliefs.
but not once do i sit there and get nasty with that person.
and if its not being nasty, maybe put it in a better way or explain it to where people know its not meant to be nasty.
Forums cant show emotions. :dontknow:

but it is interesting hearing everyones side on God.  :peace:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 05, 2010, 10:16:01 am
Quote
If someone doesnt believe in hell and you do, to sit there and say they will rot in it, what will that accomplish?
to show your nasty side

I never said they would rot in hell but I said if they don't believe in God they will rot in the ground, it's the truth...ask any atheist what happens to their body when they die! They will say rot in the ground or burn in flames i.e. cremation.

im sorry i misintrepret that. But i'm not saying just tht in general. but alot of religion topics people become so nasty with each other and i dont understand why if it is here for others. And i looked at the athiest approach once. I dont think athiest dont believe in nothing. Just not God. Cause everyone needs to believe in something.it keeps us going. I may not believe in the Christian God. But i believe in something.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: bschumacher on October 05, 2010, 10:28:51 am
Atheist, Muslim, Methodist, or Catholic, it doesn't matter. A decent person respects others' beliefs, unless those beliefs involve burning Tipeeing on someone's  holy book, blowing up people, stoning women, burning crosses, picketing funerals, or other destructive acts. Rabbi Michael Lerner (Tikkun), Rev. Jim Wallis (Sojourners), and that moderate Muslim Imam who is trying to build in God. They are all highly intelligent, rational men who are forces for good in our country. They certainly aren't "retards."
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: sflynt on October 05, 2010, 10:38:02 am
Some people just don't know how to debate, it was a common complaint of mine when I first came in here, that people can't discuss or debate anything without name calling or being mean about it..I wish I could debate and discuss but unless some intelligent opposition comes on here then I don't see that happening.

Really? hmm...interesting...

Dumb...
Great minds think alike...so um...y'all are dumb, if you can't see where I am coming from.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 05, 2010, 10:56:35 am
Quote
I wish I could debate and discuss but unless some intelligent opposition comes on here then I don't see that happening.

If you are the odd man out in D&D, and usually the only one who is, then I honestly do NOT think it's a matter of no intelligent people being here - you know that too, marie. You have been told before that you do contribute at times, you do make good/valid points at times, but you get way off track when you let your emotions start running your thinking. We all let our emotions enter into it because they are a part of us, especially with certain topics, but emotions are NOT the basis of our thoughts and opinions. There is a huge difference when anyone 'debates' on a strictly emotional level - then it is no longer a debate or discussion, it's a 'personal platform' to preach and dictate from. That doesn't work for you or anyone else.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 05, 2010, 01:27:24 pm
Quote
I wish I could debate and discuss but unless some intelligent opposition comes on here then I don't see that happening.

If you are the odd man out in D&D, and usually the only one who is, then I honestly do NOT think it's a matter of no intelligent people being here - you know that too, marie. You have been told before that you do contribute at times, you do make good/valid points at times, but you get way off track when you let your emotions start running your thinking. We all let our emotions enter into it because they are a part of us, especially with certain topics, but emotions are NOT the basis of our thoughts and opinions. There is a huge difference when anyone 'debates' on a strictly emotional level - then it is no longer a debate or discussion, it's a 'personal platform' to preach and dictate from. That doesn't work for you or anyone else.
Well put, jordandog!  I can honestly say it has happened to me when I get the rebuttals given back to me as mean or mocked, etc.  People can be nice and level-headed for awhile, then after that, here comes the "emotional level" and things really get off track because of the "preaching," etc.  I should just back off and cool down, and I usually do.  It takes a lot to rile me.  But recently it was like I just couldn't cool down without putting my two cents back at them.  I'm very glad the situation finally calmed down. I enjoy debating, not being put down and trying to "screech" at each other!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 05, 2010, 03:04:09 pm
i understand religion is a hot topic. But to get nasty in a debate. instead of being open with ones opinion. :-[
If someone doesnt believe in hell and you do, to sit there and say they will rot in it, what will that accomplish?
to show your nasty side?
i admit i do it too,by doing it too i mean get heated and try to pursuade a person to my beliefs.
but not once do i sit there and get nasty with that person.
and if its not being nasty, maybe put it in a better way or explain it to where people know its not meant to be nasty.
Forums cant show emotions. :dontknow:

but it is interesting hearing everyones side on God.  :peace:
She has mental issues and demands attention. Talking to her only makes her worse.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 05, 2010, 04:19:34 pm
Cuppycake, your Halloween-themed avatar is adorable!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 05, 2010, 04:54:52 pm
i understand religion is a hot topic. But to get nasty in a debate. instead of being open with ones opinion. :-[
If someone doesnt believe in hell and you do, to sit there and say they will rot in it, what will that accomplish?
to show your nasty side?
i admit i do it too,by doing it too i mean get heated and try to pursuade a person to my beliefs.
but not once do i sit there and get nasty with that person.
and if its not being nasty, maybe put it in a better way or explain it to where people know its not meant to be nasty.
Forums cant show emotions. :dontknow:

but it is interesting hearing everyones side on God.  :peace:
She has mental issues and demands attention. Talking to her only makes her worse.

ive seen alot of mean post about her. You know its good to be emotional over what you believe and when you put it in the conversation it shows how strong you believe in it. To say someone has mental issues isnt right. i dont think she does. i know mental issues because on eof my uncles is mental and i can not see him. But since this is a conversation about God, i can see where you think talking to her makes it worse. Maybe its not the same opinion as you and after awhile of a heated debate you lack the same control as earlier in the conversation cause it gets nowhere. Same as she. everone does it. :peace:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 05, 2010, 05:03:32 pm
its probably just because of how you state something or maybe because its not the belief they share who cares?
you have something/someone who knows you all that matters
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 05, 2010, 05:19:01 pm
i understand religion is a hot topic. But to get nasty in a debate. instead of being open with ones opinion. :-[
If someone doesnt believe in hell and you do, to sit there and say they will rot in it, what will that accomplish?
to show your nasty side?
i admit i do it too,by doing it too i mean get heated and try to pursuade a person to my beliefs.
but not once do i sit there and get nasty with that person.
and if its not being nasty, maybe put it in a better way or explain it to where people know its not meant to be nasty.
Forums cant show emotions. :dontknow:

but it is interesting hearing everyones side on God.  :peace:
She has mental issues and demands attention. Talking to her only makes her worse.

ive seen alot of mean post about her. You know its good to be emotional over what you believe and when you put it in the conversation it shows how strong you believe in it. To say someone has mental issues isnt right. i dont think she does. i know mental issues because on eof my uncles is mental and i can not see him. But since this is a conversation about God, i can see where you think talking to her makes it worse. Maybe its not the same opinion as you and after awhile of a heated debate you lack the same control as earlier in the conversation cause it gets nowhere. Same as she. everone does it. :peace:

She's told us that she has mental issues.  Many times she adds much to the discussion, but many times she doesn't.  She has a history of turning topics around to an "all eyes on Marie" topic, and she is just as mean, if not meaner, than people are to her.  I don't know how long you have been here...I've been here since June, so not very long, but long enough to see what is going on.  I actually like the Marie that participates and adds something meaningful to the topic at hand; but there is also the other side of that where Marie posts topic upon topic of misplaced topics (that really belong in Off Topic, and she does this knowingly, and has admitted it herself) and hateful remarks, and then pulls out the pity card.  As for proof...I could offer some, but the rest has probably been deleted.  Admin actually took the option to delete a topic away after Marie abused the privilege.   :wave:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Falconer02 on October 05, 2010, 05:28:12 pm
Quote
She's completely bonkers. Very few times she adds to the discussion, but the majority of the time she doesn't.

I corrected your post, Amy.

Oh and hey, Armychick! FYI- Marie's the perfect example of an internet troll so don't bother arguing with her at all.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 06, 2010, 04:41:51 am
Cuppycake, your Halloween-themed avatar is adorable!
Thanks! It is an avatar I use to represent myslef and my husband lol! He calls me a cat and I say he is a bear! ♥ I changed the picture up a bit to make it a holiday version! :D
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 06, 2010, 04:44:44 am
Quote
She's completely bonkers. Very few times she adds to the discussion, but the majority of the time she doesn't.

I corrected your post, Amy.

Oh and hey, Armychick! FYI- Marie's the perfect example of an internet troll so don't bother arguing with her at all.
I try to warn people not to feed the troll lol.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 06, 2010, 04:47:29 am
Cuppycake, your Halloween-themed avatar is adorable!
Thanks! It is an avatar I use to represent myslef and my husband lol! He calls me a cat and I say he is a bear! ♥ I changed the picture up a bit to make it a holiday version! :D

I think I will make an animated version. I just made that one fast so that I could use it on trillion and surprise my husband at work lol!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 06, 2010, 05:11:09 am
Cuppycake, your Halloween-themed avatar is adorable!
I changed the picture up a bit to make it a holiday version! :D

I noticed they weren't wearing the sweaters before!   ;D  That's very creative!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: tammyrwa on October 06, 2010, 11:03:36 am
How does a person know that hell doesn't exist- have they been there?- you know it's pretty funny that if you ask people if they believe in heaven, they don't have a problem with it, but when you say that there is a hell to punish people, they have a problem with a big bad mean God who created hell for them if they don't accept him. Let me ask you if it is fair that a person or persons should be able to commit a crime and not be punished?- you would say no, should they go to prison- you would say yes- well God, who created us all, and has has a peanalty for sin, because he created us, he has a right to make the rules, and those are the rules he made, believe it or not. For those who say we came form something, how do you say we were created- what's your theory?-see if if it sounds more rational than a Being that created the beautiful world we have and everything in it. hell is not a horrible aspect of Christianity- as I said before, it is okay to live the way you want, and go to heaven, but it is not fair to live the way you want, do bad things, not be sorry and go to a place called hell- sounds right to me. What religion, if any do you see as valid?- give me the reason that your religion of choice is so great. Mareelisa and others can be as cynical and sarcastic as they want, but I assure you that when they take their last breath, it is the God they say they don't believe in that they will call- the soul knows its owner- there are no athiests in fox holes,- when all hope is gone, you won't call on your family, friends, job, lover, or government, you will call on the one that your soul knows can save it- period. The word says that 'and the books were opened, and all whose name was not found in the lamb's book of life were cast into the lake of fire and brimstone"- you will not sleep in hell, you will be alive, and in torment forever(yes, I said forever)- that is the price for unbelief- whether you think it harsh or not. I am all for respecting others  beliefs, as long as they respect mine- blowing up people, in the name of your religion, or doing other destructive acts is not right, I don't care what religion it is- we must respect, and have debate, but not harm each other.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 06, 2010, 12:32:34 pm
 :cat:  Tammy, you are so right and make very good points.  Just be prepared for a couple to really put your points to the test - stand for your convictions!  Put the points right back at them.  I have been through it and what bothers me is the mockery and name-calling that can come out of it, instead of questions and answers, or reasons why they are against Christianity in general, or reasons why they believe what they do.  I am glad to debate with anyone over my beliefs but I give respect to their desire to believe how they wish and I expect respect for my choice of how I believe (in God, for that fact.)  It's not always the easiest debates over religion in these forums, so just stand up for what you believe and have good answers back to their questions, and have good questions for them to answer. 

There are several in here, like myself, who are Christians, as well as non-christians being in here.  Most of these people are really nice and listen and respond well. I enjoy debating/chatting/discussing with them~!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 01:05:16 pm
How does a person know that hell doesn't exist- have they been there?- you know it's pretty funny that if you ask people if they believe in heaven, they don't have a problem with it, but when you say that there is a hell to punish people, they have a problem with a big bad mean God who created hell for them if they don't accept him. Let me ask you if it is fair that a person or persons should be able to commit a crime and not be punished?- you would say no, should they go to prison-

Quote
but it is not fair to live the way you want, do bad things, not be sorry and go to a place called hell- sounds right to me.

It seems wrong that hell should exist in the manner that many religious describe it.  It is eternal torture for the ones who don't believe in Jesus/G-d.  How is a loving parent so vengeful that they would do this to the worst of their children?  How could a loving parent submit their child to this eternal torture just for not believing in them?  Doesn't sound very loving to me.  And, to pull out Godwin's Law here, Hitler the Catholic who believed he was doing g-d's work had a place in heaven while someone like QON, Jordandog, or Falconer wouldn't because they don't believe in g-d.  How is that right?  I don't accept Jesus as my savior...is there a place in hell for me, too?  Just because we don't believe in Jesus as a Messiah or g-d figure doesn't mean we do bad things.  For that matter, if a person does something bad and feels sorry for it...what if they apologize to the person they have wronged but are still an atheist?  Are they deserving of hell?  More so than someone who kneels at the side of their bed and prays to g-d for forgiveness?

Quote
What religion, if any do you see as valid?- give me the reason that your religion of choice is so great.

Quote
I am all for respecting others  beliefs, as long as they respect mine- blowing up people, in the name of your religion, or doing other destructive acts is not right, I don't care what religion it is- we must respect, and have debate, but not harm each other.

I am not going to pick and choose valid religions, because there is one that is valid for me, but that religion doesn't necessarily work for everyone.  And I will not defend my religion to you, either.  Whether or not you want to believe it, your words here are contradictory of themselves.  You claim respect for others beliefs...only if they respect yours.  That is not true respect.  This is a personal thing...the only thing you have control over are your own actions.  The golden rule does not say "treat others as they treat you" but "treat others as you want to be treated." 
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 01:46:41 pm
Quote
It seems wrong that hell should exist in the manner that many religious describe it.  It is eternal torture for the ones who don't believe in Jesus/G-d.  How is a loving parent so vengeful that they would do this to the worst of their children?  How could a loving parent submit their child to this eternal torture just for not believing in them?  Doesn't sound very loving to me.
Maybe it is just a simple seperation from God. If they don't believe he exists or there is an after life, then they can just rot in the ground like they believe they will do.

They in the end seperated themselves from God, not the other way around.

Luke 16

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'


Quote
Just because we don't believe in Jesus as a Messiah or g-d figure doesn't mean we do bad things.  For that matter, if a person does something bad and feels sorry for it...what if they apologize to the person they have wronged but are still an atheist?  Are they deserving of hell?  More so than someone who kneels at the side of their bed and prays to g-d for forgiveness?

If you are evil in the heart and refuse God, then what do you expect? Jesus will look at you and say "I never knew you" and he doesn't.

If you are that concerned with Hell, then maybe you need to find God, otherwise accept your punishment.

You telling me I need to find g-d?  That's funny.  There is nothing evil about my heart, and I don't refuse g-d.  And I'm not concerned with hell...it doesn't exist...I was responding to tammy.

Do you just like to cause mayhem?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 01:54:10 pm
Quote
You telling me I need to find g-d?  That's funny.  There is nothing evil about my heart, and I don't refuse g-d.  And I'm not concerned with hell...it doesn't exist...I was responding to tammy.

Do you just like to cause mayhem?

One thing people should know about how I speak online, when I say you...I mean in general, to whomever it concerns.

Rationalize it however you want; you are still one of the rudest people I've ever spoken with.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 02:43:27 pm
Here is me being the rudest I can be...if you don't like the answers someone gives, then quit asking questions and answer them your damn self...answer them, to whatever suits you. Geez!!  :peace:

This isn't about not liking the answers someone gives...when they give a decent, well thought out answer.  This is about an exchange of ideas.  You could take your own advice.  You don't put any thought into your "The Bible says so" answers...you really think we're all that stupid to think that it doesn't say that?  Many of us have clearly read the bible while you have admitted you haven't, but this discussion isn't all about the bible.  I was asking tammy questions and asking her to think outside the bible.  I'm sorry if you misunderstood... but there is no excuse for the rudeness I have seen from you everywhere on this forum...and everyone is tired of the pity party.  I would feel much differently if you were actually making an effort to be a member of the forum instead of a PITA...but no matter how many times people ask you nicely or try to help you, it doesn't work.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 04:00:34 pm
Here is me being the rudest I can be...if you don't like the answers someone gives, then quit asking questions and answer them your damn self...answer them, to whatever suits you. Geez!!  :peace:
This isn't about not liking the answers someone gives...when they give a decent, well thought out answer.  This is about an exchange of ideas.  You could take your own advice.  You don't put any thought into your "The Bible says so" answers...you really think we're all that stupid to think that it doesn't say that?  Many of us have clearly read the bible while you have admitted you haven't, but this discussion isn't all about the bible.  I was asking tammy questions and asking her to think outside the bible.  I'm sorry if you misunderstood... but there is no excuse for the rudeness I have seen from you everywhere on this forum...and everyone is tired of the pity party.  I would feel much differently if you were actually making an effort to be a member of the forum instead of a PITA...but no matter how many times people ask you nicely or try to help you, it doesn't work.
Well guess what, those are my answers, those are my beliefs and that's how I think...I am like 1 step away from being an atheist, you know...because I don't think like believers and really can't. I bounce back and forth, o'well that's me.

1 day I am an atheist, the next agnostic or an agnostic believer. It is well thought out to me, so what the f- ever.

OK...I'll bite...you really think this is a well thought out answer?

Quote
And, to pull out Godwin's Law here, Hitler the Catholic who believed he was doing g-d's work had a place in heaven while someone like QON, Jordandog, or Falconer wouldn't because they don't believe in g-d.  How is that right?

Because God says so.

What about this?

Quote
I don't accept Jesus as my savior...is there a place in hell for me, too?

That is what the bible says.

Doesn't sound to me like you're doing much thinking here.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Falconer02 on October 06, 2010, 04:02:29 pm
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Doesn't sound to me like you're doing much thinking here.

AMY. IT'S HER. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE?
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 04:16:18 pm
I really don't care...I believe what I believe and it isn't what the majority of people believe. I believe things that people think are strange and weird, but you know, who cares.

It is well thought out...but the majority of people on the forum just don't know how to stimulate my mind...I really wish someone could because I would love to go into great detail about my beliefs.

I  think the bible may have some truth to it but a lot of it is  :bs: and that's why I don't rely on the bible for my answers, like many do.

Lots of people talk about hell but it seems silly, if you don't believe in God to keep bringing it up. Unless of course you're worried it may be the truth.

I tell you this, I have on many occassions, spoke to spirits and seen them...yet, most believers say it is nuts or weird...I almost want to laugh at them because...I talk to God, I mean literally talk to God and he talks back...so what about you.

Really you guys are barking up the wrong tree here.

OK...I believe in g-d.  I read the bible, but rely on my own interpretations for answers.  You claim there is no stimulation for your mind here, but you can't seem to research simple topics...like most recently the fact that an atomic bomb is a nuclear weapon.

I think you may be the one barking up the wrong tree.  If we're really not stimulating intellectually...why do you continue to bombard us with posts and topics?  Other than the fact that nothing is keeping you from doing it? 
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 04:23:49 pm
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Doesn't sound to me like you're doing much thinking here.

AMY. IT'S HER. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE?

I know...I just get irritated when I'm trying to get someone to think critically about something, and it turns into "The Marie Show", although I suppose I cater to it, as well.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 04:32:11 pm
I really don't care...I believe what I believe and it isn't what the majority of people believe. I believe things that people think are strange and weird, but you know, who cares.

The thing is...strange and weird...we can handle that.  I know I can.  I have a friend who believes in dragons and another who believes in fairies.  As in, they are real creatures roaming this earth and protecting us.  I think its strange...but I don't look down on them because of it.  I don't look down on you for believing g-d talks to you, that you can see auras, and that you can predict the future.  Its strange to me...but, whatever.  You believe it, it does something for you...why would I shoot that down?

I have a hard time, though, with the way you throw down on others.  You told me the bible and g-d both say I'm going to hell because I don't believe in Jesus.  I could shoot that right back at you, because many of the things you talk about could be deemed as witchcraft in the bible and therefore you should be burned alive.  Have I ever said that to you before?  No...I don't take issue with your religion (or lack thereof, or lack of understanding thereof)...I take issue with your talking down to everyone here, claiming we're not intellectually stimulating when you can't seem to keep up with our discussions, and your general rude attitude.  This post title is a great example, or at least it was before you changed it after locking and unlocking it numerous times.  There are times I think you are a person deserving of sympathy...then you pull this  :bs: and it makes me  :BangHead:.  And I know, I KNOW, I am not alone here in this thought.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 05:16:17 pm
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I could shoot that right back at you, because many of the things you talk about could be deemed as witchcraft in the bible and therefore you should be burned alive.

Good thing, they don't do this stuff anymore, huh? I could go on a rant but I won't and will just leave it as is.

Good thing they don't do much of the stuff outlined in the bible anymore, huh?  That is one of the reasons why "The Bible says so" isn't a legitimate well thought out answer.

I am asking you, please please just consider this.  If you don't have any response other than "The Bible says so" or "g-d says so", or you can't elaborate on why you say that, then just don't respond.  It does nothing other than p*ss people off, and ignore you, or want to jump down your throat.  There are times when things are said that are either over my head or I feel I can't offer anything else to the topic, or that just don't interest me, and I stay back, read the posts, and refrain from responding.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  There are times when you add much to the conversation at hand and I want to cheer you on.   Many of your posts are on topic and very intelligent and very enjoyable.  There are other times, though, where you make me  :BangHead: or  :angry7:, and I am willing to bet it is that way with many other posters here as well.  I don't think you are a troll...much of the time.  You seem to buy into the persona, though, and its like you figure if you're going to be treated that way you might as well act that way.  Please, for those of us that enjoy you on these forums, stop that behavior.  Prove those who call you a troll wrong.  There are few things in life more gratifying than proving your opponents wrong.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 06, 2010, 05:24:43 pm
I think it is strange that people who believe in God think this stuff is strange, but yeah whatever.

Its strange to me because it isn't part of my faith.  My husband and his friends believe in it.  My husband believes I have the power to heal people with my hands.  I don't agree; its strange to me.  I'm not going to tear him down because I disagree, though.  Now...if you had a show on Sundays where you charged people money to read their auras and relay messages from g-d...I might change my stance.  ;)

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The reason, I go back and forth though, is well I expect it from non believers but when believers say stuff about my abilities, it makes me question if it is real...If I thought it wasn't real, there would be no reason for me to believe in God and I would be an atheist or whatever the word for a person who knows there is no God...not just someone who doesn't believe.

You shouldn't need a reason to believe in g-d.  Many people who believe in g-d believe that g-d is a part of them and a part of everything they see.  I have strange beliefs when it comes to g-d, but I believe in g-d with everything I am.  I don't claim any mystical or spiritual power...I just know...without relying upon a book or people or anything else to tell me anything about it.  I enjoy discussing and debating, but I'm strong and grounded in my beliefs...nothing is going to change that...nothing has yet, and my life is something out of a soap opera.

Whatever your reasons are, though, you shouldn't allow anyone to tell you that you are wrong in them.  What does anyone else know about you and your personal relationship with g-d, anyway?  You've proven you're strong...so, keep that in mind when you meet others who disagree. 

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This stuff, this strange stuff that happens to me, is why I believe, and when people bark up this tree...it's like wtf...to me it seems like the Devil is trying to tear me down...but I am strong...I hope he doesn't win though..

I personally don't believe in the devil...but since you do...he won't win unless you allow him to.  See above.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 06, 2010, 06:03:24 pm
How does a person know that hell doesn't exist- have they been there?-

Have you been to Neverland?  Because that's how silly this "argument" sounds.  Imaginary and/or invisible places for which there is no tangible proof do not meet the requirements for even the possibility of validity.  You are making the claim that hell exists, so YOU have to prove it, not vise versa.

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you know it's pretty funny that if you ask people if they believe in heaven, they don't have a problem with it, but when you say that there is a hell to punish people, they have a problem with a big bad mean God who created hell for them if they don't accept him.

Well I think heaven is just as ridiculous and unfounded.  As for the people who deny hell but accept heaven -- that's because part of them realizes how SICK and illogical the concept of hell is.  You're latter statement makes me think you have no problem believing that the average person DESERVES to be in agony forever just for being themselves.  And that makes me very sad.  Religion has severely clouded your judgment and stripped you of your humanity.

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God, who created us all, and has has a peanalty for sin, because he created us, he has a right to make the rules, and those are the rules he made, believe it or not.

Not.  Hell can be disproved by this one simple logical fact: infinite suffering for finite crimes isn't perfect, loving, OR just...character traits your god is supposed to embody.  Therefore hell (and your god) are extremely unlikely to exist.  MUSE THIS OVER.

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For those who say we came form something, how do you say we were created- what's your theory?-

Of course we came from something.  That's a logical given.  We are created from our parents, who were created from their parents, and so on.  Once you get back to the first modern humans 200,000 years ago, you again trace back through the evolution of species before finally arriving at the most basic life forms.  We have strong evidence to support this form of lineage.

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see if if it sounds more rational than a Being that created the beautiful world we have and everything in it.

Why is it "more rational"?  Because you don't understand the science of how the various things came to be?

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hell is not a horrible aspect of Christianity

It most certainly is, and if you ever really thought about it, you'd realize this, too.

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I assure you that when they take their last breath, it is the God they say they don't believe in that they will call

Just because you're insecure about dying doesn't mean we all are.  I will be thinking about my happy and full life and saying good-bye to any nearby loved ones - that's it.

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there are no athiests in fox holes

I personally know MANY atheists in the military.  I know it's an expression, but it's an incorrect one.  It's a condescending stereotype.

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when all hope is gone, you won't call on your family, friends, job, lover, or government, you will call on the one that your soul knows can save it- period.

Plenty of people die without invoking god every day.  Only the desperate cling to this last-minute bout of wishful thinking.  By using the phrase "when all hope is gone", me thinks you are terrified to die.  There is no hope in death if you are dying of natural causes!!  It's an inevitable biological event.

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you will not sleep in hell, you will be alive, and in torment forever(yes, I said forever)- that is the price for unbelief- whether you think it harsh or not

Picture what you just described and think about how the world actually works.  Your mind has been sold to barbaric, unjustified, superstitious tradition.  How scary it must be living with an enormous bag of fake fears.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 07, 2010, 09:24:34 am
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I don't accept Jesus as my savior...is there a place in hell for me, too?

That is what the bible says.

but man wrote the bible. im not disclaiming it as god word. but who is it to say that the person who wrote it (i believe a disciple) did not wrote that because he believes it to be? I know red was added to put as i think not gods word but mans? (correct me on that if i am wrong please.) But you can not prove that man did not put his words as God's when he wrote it. If you can please please prove me on this. i have still yet to find someone who can prove me on this. and just saying it is gods words is not disputing this.

And believing in neither hell nor heaven doesnt mean you'll rot in the ground in certain religions. what about rencarrnation? We all have Deja vuu, can you explain that? but then i guess you can say rencarrnation is that religions heaven maybe...

i also have a question about ...jehova...[sp?] witnesses. we all have had them come to our doors one time or another. if anybody can make it why do they say only a cartain amount will make it i forget the exact number. what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year. i slammed the door on their face. but i would love to have someone explain their beliefs a little more. are they like the snob religion of God? Not to sound rude or anything.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 07, 2010, 12:02:30 pm
but man wrote the bible. im not disclaiming it as god word. but who is it to say that the person who wrote it (i believe a disciple) did not wrote that because he believes it to be? I know red was added to put as i think not gods word but mans? (correct me on that if i am wrong please.) But you can not prove that man did not put his words as God's when he wrote it. If you can please please prove me on this. i have still yet to find someone who can prove me on this. and just saying it is gods words is not disputing this.

There is contention about who the actual author(s) of the bible was/were.  Many believe the OT was divinely inspired and given to Moses by g-d with the ten commandments.  Others believe there are 3-4 authors.  In the NT, the red words are the ones Jesus spoke, and the black is what is written by the authors.  A good resource I've found on this is www.religioustolerance.org.

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i also have a question about ...jehova...[sp?] witnesses. we all have had them come to our doors one time or another. if anybody can make it why do they say only a cartain amount will make it i forget the exact number. what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year. i slammed the door on their face. but i would love to have someone explain their beliefs a little more. are they like the snob religion of God? Not to sound rude or anything.

Eh, I don't know much about them, except for the fact that Jehovah is not g-d's real name.  G-d's name was written in Hebrew without vowels, and the pronunciation was lost with the destruction of the temple, so no one knows the real pronunciation of g-d's name.  What happened is that the vowels from the word "Adonai" meaning "my ruler" were lifted from the word and placed on top of the four letters symbolizing g-d's name (the tetragrammaton) and voila!  Jehovah.  Same can be said for Yahweh...not g-d's name...we don't know what g-d's name is except for "I AM", but we have nearly 100 different words we can use to call upon g-d. 

If you are interested in reading more about them, though, here is their official website:  http://www.watchtower.org/.  Knowledge is power!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 07, 2010, 12:57:42 pm
but man wrote the bible. im not disclaiming it as god word. but who is it to say that the person who wrote it (i believe a disciple) did not wrote that because he believes it to be? I know red was added to put as i think not gods word but mans? (correct me on that if i am wrong please.) But you can not prove that man did not put his words as God's when he wrote it. If you can please please prove me on this. i have still yet to find someone who can prove me on this. and just saying it is gods words is not disputing this.

There is contention about who the actual author(s) of the bible was/were.  Many believe the OT was divinely inspired and given to Moses by g-d with the ten commandments.  Others believe there are 3-4 authors.  In the NT, the red words are the ones Jesus spoke, and the black is what is written by the authors.  A good resource I've found on this is www.religioustolerance.org.

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i also have a question about ...jehova...[sp?] witnesses. we all have had them come to our doors one time or another. if anybody can make it why do they say only a cartain amount will make it i forget the exact number. what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year. i slammed the door on their face. but i would love to have someone explain their beliefs a little more. are they like the snob religion of God? Not to sound rude or anything.

Eh, I don't know much about them, except for the fact that Jehovah is not g-d's real name.  G-d's name was written in Hebrew without vowels, and the pronunciation was lost with the destruction of the temple, so no one knows the real pronunciation of g-d's name.  What happened is that the vowels from the word "Adonai" meaning "my ruler" were lifted from the word and placed on top of the four letters symbolizing g-d's name (the tetragrammaton) and voila!  Jehovah.  Same can be said for Yahweh...not g-d's name...we don't know what g-d's name is except for "I AM", but we have nearly 100 different words we can use to call upon g-d. 

If you are interested in reading more about them, though, here is their official website:  http://www.watchtower.org/.  Knowledge is power!   :thumbsup:

thanks ill look at them  ;)
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 08, 2010, 09:15:46 am
The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.  As for heaven being limited revelation states that only 144,000 will be apart of the first resurrection(A.K.A as firstfruits)
Revelation 14:1-4.

 "what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year.

1. They're will not be more then 144,000 (Revelation 14:1-4), it's the individuals choice to determine whether your part of that group or not. People who are of the 144,000 are not to boast about it, and the JW's don't scold people that claim it. For the JW that told you that i'm srry, the truth is it's your choice. 


2. The rest will be on earth, it's true there's no phrase in the bible that says paradise earth, however they are prophecies that only occurs on earth.

"Evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth."—Psalm 37:9

There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow Psalm 72:16)

Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth( Matthew 5:5)

The sheep and goats parable helps to undertand how he will srt them out, witht the help of his son.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 08, 2010, 09:39:31 am
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The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious.

Your proof of this? I am very interested in seeing a reply from one person in particular if she sees this one. It is basically taking the initial premise of the Jewish/Hebrew faith, it's guidelines, and the interpretation of all it's texts and saying they are false.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: teflonfanatic on October 08, 2010, 10:00:05 am
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The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious.

Your proof of this? I am very interested in seeing a reply from one person in particular if she sees this one. It is basically taking the initial premise of the Jewish/Hebrew faith, it's guidelines, and the interpretation of all it's texts and saying they are false.

It's fallacious because the hebrew language had no vowels
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Falconer02 on October 08, 2010, 10:26:02 am
Jdog asked for proof, Teflon. You've just restated what you said already. I would like to know too-- preferrably from a source that isn't from your own faith (just to get rid of a possible biased notion).
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 08, 2010, 10:58:02 am
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The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious.

Your proof of this? I am very interested in seeing a reply from one person in particular if she sees this one. It is basically taking the initial premise of the Jewish/Hebrew faith, it's guidelines, and the interpretation of all it's texts and saying they are false.

It's fallacious because the hebrew language had no vowels

Wait a minute, you are semingly contradicting yourself here. Are you actually saying you AGREE the Hebrew language had no vowels? The way you wrote it made it seem like you were saying it was 'fallacious' because it DID have vowels. You have me completely boondoggled again. :P
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 11:59:27 am
The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.  

Traditionally there were no vowels in the Hebrew language.  Your point is?

During translations, vowels were added...to most words.  They were not added, however, to the tetragrammaton.  The JW's did this, without any knowledge of the language, and they continue to deny this to this day.

I would like to hear you tell my rabbi, who has been studying and teaching this for decades, to all religions, that this argument is fallacious.  He's the one that informed me of this...while teaching me Hebrew.  Or do you really claim that the JW's have a head up on everyone because they are the ones that really know g-d's name, and they decided to spread that information to the rest of the world?  
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: tammyrwa on October 08, 2010, 02:52:06 pm
The things in the bible are facts if you believe them- there are many things that have not been proven as fact- scientists are still studying them, but people accept it, but they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need. I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes. I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower. I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?. Man wrote the bible as inspired by God- an autubiography if you will, written by the prophets, apostles, and disciples hand picked by God himself- what an honor. Christianity is not a "snob" religion, there are some, of course like anyone  who misuse the priviledge, but no true Christian believes he or she is better than anyone- just forgiven. The bible says there will only be 144,000 people  I plan to be one of them- I don't know why God chose that number- I asume that it is because 144,00 angels (1/3 of heaven) with satan fell to the earth when rebelled against God- I suppose that that is seperate from the "number" that couldn't be numbered that John talked about in the bible- I would have to read up on it. the Jehovah Witnesses put a lot of emphasis on that, but they lack in other areas of truth in the bible. There is nothing false about hebrew text- you have to study it to really understand it.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 03:33:02 pm
I get what you're saying, Tammy, and I agree to a point.  It doesn't matter to me whether the Bible is factual or not...there is something to be learned from reading it.  It doesn't matter to me who wrote the holy book, either.  And, if g-d didn't exist...wouldn't change my outlook on life one bit.

A big difference I see, though, is this: the Hebrew language was originally written without vowels...so therefore, every word written in the Bible (or, for me, the Tanakh) was written without a vowel.  This means, the possibility for translation is endless...each story has a possibility of different interpretations for different people...so what I get from the holy book isn't necessarily what someone else will get from the same book.  Therefore, it is not up to me to try to get someone to follow my version of what happened...or to even follow the holy book at all. 

I also see science, though, and cannot deny its validity.  Science has helped me in having a child when it seems I shouldn't have been able to.  Science keeps me warm in the winter and cool in the summer.  Science has saved my life when I've been sick, and the lives of those I love.  Why is it so hard to believe we may come from a common ancestor?  An ape is one of g-d's creations, too, is it not?  Pulling Godwin's law into the equation here again...I'd rather have an ape for a cousin than a Hitler...
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 08, 2010, 03:34:22 pm
they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need.

You will fall victim to many a scam in your life with an attitude like that.  Skepticism is healthy and is the default position.

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I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

So you'd rather believe in "what feels good" at all costs in lieu of the actual truth?  Well at least you're honest in that regard.  You're in good company...the main reason so many people can't let go of their unfounded beliefs is because they're terrified of a reality without them.

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I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower.

Hmm, a lot more people believe in actual death than reincarnation.  Why didn't you address that?  You're sentence should read:

I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that this life is it; when you die, you are actually dead.

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I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?

Why are the good things of the world any less good without a god?  Actually, they are infinitely more precious BECAUSE they didn't appear by magic and BECAUSE they won't last forever.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 08, 2010, 03:35:00 pm
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I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

:angry7: :BangHead: Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 03:46:10 pm
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The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious.

Your proof of this? I am very interested in seeing a reply from one person in particular if she sees this one. It is basically taking the initial premise of the Jewish/Hebrew faith, it's guidelines, and the interpretation of all it's texts and saying they are false.

I really take no offense from someone who would dismiss an entire argument/explanation based solely on the fact that they think they know Hebrew better than someone who studies and teaches the language and would say "the no vowels argument is fallacious because there were no vowels in the language" then would take the translation for pure fact when there were, in fact, NO VOWELS...seems to me someone should study logic...  :dontknow:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 08, 2010, 03:47:10 pm
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I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

:angry7: :BangHead: Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.

Could you please explain who and/or what the common ancestor was and the proof? Thank you.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jordandog on October 08, 2010, 04:13:10 pm
Quote
I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

:angry7: :BangHead: Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.

Could you please explain who and/or what the common ancestor was and the proof? Thank you.

We have been over this particular point countless times and in many different threads. Please don't think I am being rude, but I have no desire to back through it all again - it gives me a headache even thinking of that. I'm sure if you go to the main forum page and do a search on 'evolution' you will see the threads I am referring to. ;)

Marie, you have been in many, if not all, of those discussions so I'm sure you know what I am talking about.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 08, 2010, 04:36:29 pm
Apparently I'm still new enough to maybe not have seen those you are discussing (forums.)  There are so many new people coming in and out, also, that haven't.  Anyway, I, myself, already know what you think evolution is and it is not believable, just as you think creation is not believable.  The question was put to you for a direct answer back for others to see. But that's fine, don't worry about it.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 08, 2010, 04:56:53 pm
The things in the bible are facts if you believe them- there are many things that have not been proven as fact- scientists are still studying them, but people accept it, but they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need. I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes. I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower. I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?. Man wrote the bible as inspired by God- an autubiography if you will, written by the prophets, apostles, and disciples hand picked by God himself- what an honor. Christianity is not a "snob" religion, there are some, of course like anyone  who misuse the priviledge, but no true Christian believes he or she is better than anyone- just forgiven. The bible says there will only be 144,000 people  I plan to be one of them- I don't know why God chose that number- I asume that it is because 144,00 angels (1/3 of heaven) with satan fell to the earth when rebelled against God- I suppose that that is seperate from the "number" that couldn't be numbered that John talked about in the bible- I would have to read up on it. the Jehovah Witnesses put a lot of emphasis on that, but they lack in other areas of truth in the bible. There is nothing false about hebrew text- you have to study it to really understand it.

The JW's who count themselves in the 144,000 are way off the mark.  So is any Christian who puts themselves in that number.  I've posted this before, so here it is again.  For those of you who believe the Bible, go to the 7th Chapter of Revelation.  This chapter addresses the 144,000.  They are ALL Jews.  From each tribe of the children of Israel, 12,000 are taken from each tribe (Dan, Levi, Rueben, Benjamin, etc.).  These tribes were established in the OT, which are the lineage of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac.  

Now....skim down to the 9th verse (7th chapter of Revelation), where there is a multitude without number, these are they which washed their robes in the blood of the lamb (Jesus).  A white robe is spoken of as symbolizing the "righteousness" of the Saints".  This crowd without number are those who are born again (Christians).  We are the ones redeemed by Christ's blood, and wear white robes (as the bride of Christ).  This "symbolic" title is always referred to as the "Church", or body of Christ.

You have to take the study of the whole Bible of the Jews, us, etc., and put it all together concerning the end of days, and what is done, and why God is doing it.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 08, 2010, 05:04:09 pm
Marieelissa, your picture of the little Chipmunk, Squirrel, or whatever it is, in a "praying stance" is adorable!  You find the cutest things.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 05:05:50 pm
Some websites about common ancestry:

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/poolearticle.html

Wikipedia's answer, although I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor

Smithsonian: http://humanorigins.si.edu/resources/intro-human-evolution

PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/humans/humankind/

...and Mitochondrial Eve: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38786481/ns/technology_and_science-science/



And, welcome back, again, Annella!
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Annella on October 08, 2010, 05:07:21 pm
I'm just in and out for awhile.  Be back next week for real.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 08, 2010, 05:12:53 pm
I get we share a common ancester, but weren't these common ancestors parents the apes...

No, they were neither ape nor human.
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: jcribb16 on October 08, 2010, 05:13:52 pm
Thanks for adding the part about the 144,000, Annella.  It's great to see you back on here, even if just for a few days.  But, we will see you next week, "for real!!"
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 05:15:06 pm
This irritates me somewhat...so let's break it down...

The tetragrammaton: Y H V H

Adonai vowels:  A O A

Add them together: Y A H O V A H

Sound it out now...Yahovah...Jahovah...gee...that's difficult to place...does it mean that this is g-d's name?

Tell me more about how I'm wrong about the vowels, teflon...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 08, 2010, 05:54:35 pm
The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.  As for heaven being limited revelation states that only 144,000 will be apart of the first resurrection(A.K.A as firstfruits)
Revelation 14:1-4.

 "what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year.

1. They're will not be more then 144,000 (Revelation 14:1-4), it's the individuals choice to determine whether your part of that group or not. People who are of the 144,000 are not to boast about it, and the JW's don't scold people that claim it. For the JW that told you that i'm srry, the truth is it's your choice. 


2. The rest will be on earth, it's true there's no phrase in the bible that says paradise earth, however they are prophecies that only occurs on earth.

"Evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth."—Psalm 37:9

There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow Psalm 72:16)

Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth( Matthew 5:5)

The sheep and goats parable helps to undertand how he will srt them out, witht the help of his son.

Hope this helps.

:thumbsup:
thanks
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: amyrouse on October 08, 2010, 06:00:17 pm
The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.  As for heaven being limited revelation states that only 144,000 will be apart of the first resurrection(A.K.A as firstfruits)
Revelation 14:1-4.

 "what will happen to the rest and how will God sort them out. What if their are more then that number? will he just pick the ones who have sinned less? Could someone clarified this for me. Cause as far as the Jehova witnesses told me is even if i repent i will more then likely never make it to heaven because of all my sins and for not letting god into my life sooner. i was told this i believe when i was ten and answered my door because i had only been to church for about a year.

1. They're will not be more then 144,000 (Revelation 14:1-4), it's the individuals choice to determine whether your part of that group or not. People who are of the 144,000 are not to boast about it, and the JW's don't scold people that claim it. For the JW that told you that i'm srry, the truth is it's your choice. 


2. The rest will be on earth, it's true there's no phrase in the bible that says paradise earth, however they are prophecies that only occurs on earth.

"Evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth."—Psalm 37:9

There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow Psalm 72:16)

Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth( Matthew 5:5)

The sheep and goats parable helps to undertand how he will srt them out, witht the help of his son.

Hope this helps.

:thumbsup:
thanks

Oh, dear...I hope you've read the posts since this one...
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: armychick09h on October 08, 2010, 06:03:33 pm
yes i have. he told me the number i could not remember and a bit. am i going with all he says no but he still answered a bit
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 09, 2010, 10:38:47 am
they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need.

You will fall victim to many a scam in your life with an attitude like that.  Skepticism is healthy and is the default position.

Quote
I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

So you'd rather believe in "what feels good" at all costs in lieu of the actual truth?  Well at least you're honest in that regard.  You're in good company...the main reason so many people can't let go of their unfounded beliefs is because they're terrified of a reality without them.

Quote
I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower.

Hmm, a lot more people believe in actual death than reincarnation.  Why didn't you address that?  You're sentence should read:

I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that this life is it; when you die, you are actually dead.

Quote
I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?

Why are the good things of the world any less good without a god?  Actually, they are infinitely more precious BECAUSE they didn't appear by magic and BECAUSE they won't last forever.
I am very glad there are sane people like you in this world. ♥
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: queenofnines on October 09, 2010, 11:18:58 am
I am very glad there are sane people like you in this world. ♥

Aw, thanks!  Right back at ya, Cuppycake!   :heart:
Title: Re: I believe in God, I must be a Retard or so they say
Post by: Cuppycake on October 09, 2010, 12:01:32 pm
I am very glad there are sane people like you in this world. ♥

Aw, thanks!  Right back at ya, Cuppycake!   :heart:

Yep you guys should be so proud of yourselves.
Your mom.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: worthberthava17 on October 09, 2010, 03:09:44 pm
To believe in God is something that takes a lot of  not. Not living like you might die ever day, not believing man and woman were made evil. Not believing that you have to be better then the other person. Believeing in God is also beliveing in you.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: jordandog on October 09, 2010, 06:03:24 pm
Just as the groceries fill the pantry, so does the cat fill the litter box
Just as the dirty laundry fills the washer, so do the wet clothes fill the dryer
Just as the car runs out of gas, so does the bank account run out of money
Just as the berries grow on bushes, so does the bird who eats them poop on your clean car
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: queenofnines on October 10, 2010, 01:56:12 pm
if something happens after we die then there is a God BUT you have to die first, for the truth to be revealed.

That's a very high price to pay, dontcha think?
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: AmyTrivitt on October 10, 2010, 06:14:36 pm
I think you have to know who you are. Get to know the monster that lives in your soul, dive deep into your soul and explore it.
I read all of you quotes and I have to stop you. Only you on here want everyone to treat you with respect with your religion, yet you belittle everyone else's. You have to give respect to earn it.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: walksalone11 on October 10, 2010, 06:27:39 pm
I think you have to know who you are. Get to know the monster that lives in your soul, dive deep into your soul and explore it.
I read all of you quotes and I have to stop you. Only you on here want everyone to treat you with respect with your religion, yet you belittle everyone else's. You have to give respect to earn it.
Naaaa she just demands to be seen and gets off on getting rises out of everyone.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: Alyia72 on October 11, 2010, 11:50:52 am
I think you have to know who you are. Get to know the monster that lives in your soul, dive deep into your soul and explore it.
I read all of you quotes and I have to stop you. Only you on here want everyone to treat you with respect with your religion, yet you belittle everyone else's. You have to give respect to earn it.
Naaaa she just demands to be seen and gets off on getting rises out of everyone.

Not true, I hate disorder! I like things to be harmonious. I don't demand to be seen. I am just in here having discussions like everyone else, granted I post a lot more but yeah.
Yep..that's why you make dozens of topics and lock them immediately so no one can discuss or disagree.  I totally agree with Amy that you have to give respect to earn it and the sooner you start respecting other peoples opinions and beliefs no matter if they share yours or not you will see that you will get respect in return. Somehow at this time I doubt that will happen though as it sure appears your just out to get attention.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: ljNana on October 11, 2010, 01:22:09 pm
Isn't it absolutely amazing that there are 39 pages to this discussion so far?  That tells you something about God. There are many many people who want to know if there really is a God. Many of the people who respond with critical remarks about those who do  believe, are some of those who want there to be a God.  My wild and crazy brother who died at 50 because of his lifestyle always put people down who said there was a God. He just couldn't understand why people could believe something they couldn't see. He wanted to know so badly, that in the last few months of his life, he accepted Jesus. He saw his thoughts about life changing. He's in heaven now, praise God! :angel12:
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: queenofnines on October 11, 2010, 02:39:04 pm
Isn't it absolutely amazing that there are 39 pages to this discussion so far?

Isn't it absolutely amazing that there are and have been literally THOUSANDS of different gods?  All of them invisible!  And not one with any proof!

It can be a long, drawn-out process trying to get people to see sense...the fact that religion is argued so much is proof that god is not fact.

Quote
Many of the people who respond with critical remarks about those who do  believe, are some of those who want there to be a God.

Uh, no.  Don't you know that the majority of atheists/agnostics/etc. used to be devoted believers themselves???

Quote
My wild and crazy brother who died at 50 because of his lifestyle always put people down who said there was a God. He just couldn't understand why people could believe something they couldn't see. He wanted to know so badly, that in the last few months of his life, he accepted Jesus. He saw his thoughts about life changing. He's in heaven now, praise God! :angel12:

How dare you say your brother died *because* he spoke of reason in the face of delusion.  Again, most atheists have real experience believing in a god, SO WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT with this mindset of god belief.

As for your brother, he probably caved under the pressure of knowing he was dying when he chose to accept your pal Jesus.  That is all.
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: tammyrwa on October 11, 2010, 03:25:53 pm
There is nothing wrong with skepticism- you you should question things. all I can go is by what the bible offers- the way to have an eternal reward for living for God- sounds easy to me- if you want to get bogged down in all of the technicalities. you can try to get an eternal reward doing something else, but I wouldn't guranetee it. there is no book that I have ever read that tells you to live right, do good, accept someone died for you as Lord and saviour, and you have a mansion in heaven- you try it your way, i'll try it mine.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jcribb16 on October 11, 2010, 05:45:11 pm
Quote from ljnana:
My wild and crazy brother who died at 50 because of his lifestyle always put people down who said there was a God. He just couldn't understand why people could believe something they couldn't see. He wanted to know so badly, that in the last few months of his life, he accepted Jesus. He saw his thoughts about life changing. He's in heaven now, praise God!

Quote from queenofnines:
How dare you say your brother died *because* he spoke of reason in the face of delusion.  Again, most atheists have real experience believing in a god, SO WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT with this mindset of god belief.

As for your brother, he probably caved under the pressure of knowing he was dying when he chose to accept your pal Jesus.  That is all.

Please stop insulting someone regarding their belief and what happened with her brother.  At least he had a reassurance in his experience, and it's not your concern to call his reasoning delusional. You are talking of a dead brother here, that made his going secure in the Lord.  You are crossing the line of respect with this, qon.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jcribb16 on October 11, 2010, 05:48:27 pm
Quote from ljnana:
Many of the people who respond with critical remarks about those who do  believe, are some of those who want there to be a God.

Quote from queenofnines:
Uh, no.  Don't you know that the majority of atheists/agnostics/etc. used to be devoted believers themselves???

You really pride yourself on this.  I am glad I am not in your shoes (I already know you wouldn't be in mine.) Your arguments are really beginning to sound like rationalizations for your denouncing of God.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: Falconer02 on October 11, 2010, 05:52:39 pm
Quote
Please stop insulting someone regarding their belief and what happened with her brother.  At least he had a reassurance in his experience, and it's not your concern to call his reasoning delusional. You are talking of a dead brother here, that made his going secure in the Lord.  You are crossing the line of respect with this, qon.

This being an argument, I'm sure she didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. It's hard to manuever around personal stories of individuals without stepping on a landmine while in an argument. It happens. I've done this plenty of times.

Quote
Your arguments are really beginning to sound like rationalizations for your denouncing of God.

It's true though- most non-believers used to be believers in a religion. If we were raised as NB's, it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue. But since we've experienced it and see the problems, it strikes a harder chord with us.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jcribb16 on October 11, 2010, 06:31:40 pm
Quote
Please stop insulting someone regarding their belief and what happened with her brother.  At least he had a reassurance in his experience, and it's not your concern to call his reasoning delusional. You are talking of a dead brother here, that made his going secure in the Lord.  You are crossing the line of respect with this, qon.

This being an argument, I'm sure she didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. It's hard to manuever around personal stories of individuals without stepping on a landmine while in an argument. It happens. I've done this plenty of times.

Quote
Your arguments are really beginning to sound like rationalizations for your denouncing of God.

It's true though- most non-believers used to be believers in a religion. If we were raised as NB's, it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue. But since we've experienced it and see the problems, it strikes a harder chord with us.
I appreciate your comments, Falconer.  I was going by the way she came back at ljnana by saying "How dare you...."  That is not respectful in that type of answer to what the poster was trying to share.
 Thanks for your comment about NB's, and I can see where you are coming from. Like I said to qon before, it really does concern me and make me wonder what in the world happened so major to denounce God that way.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: shernajwine on October 11, 2010, 06:47:52 pm
If people can sit in bars getting drunk and trying to fill some kind of void with alcohol and meaningless small talk with strangers....
      Why call me stupid for being in church on Sunday morning filling my spirit with the Word of God?

If people can stand up and scream at the top of their lungs and do happy dances at a sports event when their team is winning...
     Why call me crazy for shouting with joy for what God has done for me?

If people can laugh giddily because they are in love....
     Why call me ridiculous for being giddy about my first love Jesus Christ?

If people can hold up their hands and lighters at concerts for a song about the worldly things....
     Why call me silly for lifting my hands in worship to a wonderful God?

Well, it really doesn't matter what you call me because nothing will stop me from being filled with His Word
  Nothing will stop me from shouting for joy
  Nothing will stop me from being giddy about the unconditional love of Jesus
  Nothing will stop me from lifting my hands in worship

So call me whatever you want,
      stupid, crazy, ridiculous, silly; but don't forget to add CHILD OF GOD!  ;D

(http://i52.tinypic.com/wjdfk7.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jcribb16 on October 11, 2010, 08:00:50 pm
 :cat:  Sherene, that is one of the best posts I have seen about Christians living for God.  That is excellent!!!!!!!!!!!

I love it!!!!!!   :thumbsup:  *applause*
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jallicaco on October 11, 2010, 08:04:18 pm
this is amazing. i love it

             ~jalica
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: shernajwine on October 11, 2010, 08:04:23 pm
I had an AMAZING weekend spent in wonderful worship in the presence of God and I have been refreshed!  :heart: ;D
I love my God SO SO much! No one can get me down right now lol.

Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: Annella on October 11, 2010, 09:09:55 pm
I had an AMAZING weekend spent in wonderful worship in the presence of God and I have been refreshed!  :heart: ;D
I love my God SO SO much! No one can get me down right now lol.



Awww....  Just keep basking in His Glory, your His child :heart:
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: SurveyMack10 on October 11, 2010, 10:47:04 pm
If people can sit in bars getting drunk and trying to fill some kind of void with alcohol and meaningless small talk with strangers....
      Why call me stupid for being in church on Sunday morning filling my spirit with the Word of God?

If people can stand up and scream at the top of their lungs and do happy dances at a sports event when their team is winning...
     Why call me crazy for shouting with joy for what God has done for me?

If people can laugh giddily because they are in love....
     Why call me ridiculous for being giddy about my first love Jesus Christ?

If people can hold up their hands and lighters at concerts for a song about the worldly things....
     Why call me silly for lifting my hands in worship to a wonderful God?

Well, it really doesn't matter what you call me because nothing will stop me from being filled with His Word
  Nothing will stop me from shouting for joy
  Nothing will stop me from being giddy about the unconditional love of Jesus
  Nothing will stop me from lifting my hands in worship

So call me whatever you want,
      stupid, crazy, ridiculous, silly; but don't forget to add CHILD OF GOD!  ;D

(http://i52.tinypic.com/wjdfk7.jpg)


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: queenofnines on October 12, 2010, 05:27:32 am
Is this thread's title like Baskin Robbins?  Does it have 31 flavors?
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: queenofnines on October 12, 2010, 05:32:41 am
I was going by the way she came back at ljnana by saying "How dare you...."  That is not respectful in that type of answer to what the poster was trying to share.

I said "how dare you" because I didn't think it was respectful of HER to insinuate that because her brother lived a "wild atheist lifestyle", THAT contributed to his early demise.  Did you just skip over that part when reading it?

As for the rest of it, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I was just pointing out that a sappy, emotional conversion story is not "evidence" for god whatsoever.
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: queenofnines on October 12, 2010, 05:40:29 am
If people can sit in bars getting drunk and trying to fill some kind of void with alcohol and meaningless small talk with strangers....
     Why call me stupid for being in church on Sunday morning filling my spirit with the Word of God?

You nailed it on the head - that's exactly what it is (except you cheated and replaced void with "spirit").  * Insert people thinking I'm being disrespectful *  ;)

Quote
[/b][/i]
If people can stand up and scream at the top of their lungs and do happy dances at a sports event when their team is winning...
     Why call me crazy for shouting with joy for what God has done for me?

Hmm...if plenty of people can have the exact same feelings about things that AREN'T god, kinda seems like said feelings are all in your head.

Quote
If people can laugh giddily because they are in love....
    Why call me ridiculous for being giddy about my first love Jesus Christ?

Because their crushes are REAL and yours is...invisible.  Undetectable.  Based on a man that may have never lived at all.

Quote
If people can hold up their hands and lighters at concerts for a song about the worldly things....
    Why call me silly for lifting my hands in worship to a wonderful God?

Again, is the strong emotional experience not A CLUE that god is all inside your head??
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: jcribb16 on October 12, 2010, 07:14:16 am
I was going by the way she came back at ljnana by saying "How dare you...."  That is not respectful in that type of answer to what the poster was trying to share.

I said "how dare you" because I didn't think it was respectful of HER to insinuate that because her brother lived a "wild atheist lifestyle", THAT contributed to his early demise.  Did you just skip over that part when reading it?

As for the rest of it, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I was just pointing out that a sappy, emotional conversion story is not "evidence" for god whatsoever.
*sigh*  Calling it "sappy, emotional conversion story" is contradicting yourself. Yes, it is trying to be disrespectful. * ::) *
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: sflynt on October 12, 2010, 07:56:48 am
I was going by the way she came back at ljnana by saying "How dare you...."  That is not respectful in that type of answer to what the poster was trying to share.

I said "how dare you" because I didn't think it was respectful of HER to insinuate that because her brother lived a "wild atheist lifestyle", THAT contributed to his early demise.  Did you just skip over that part when reading it?

 :angry7:  I really don't think she (ljnana) was trying to say that his wild "Athiest" lifestyle was what killed him... I believe She was just trying to state that he lived a wild and crazy lifestyle that lead to his death, and he was also an athiest, that turned to God before his passing.


Edited: to fix my error! sorry for the confusion!!
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jcribb16 on October 12, 2010, 09:41:03 am
Quote from: queenofnines:
How dare you say your brother died *because* he spoke of reason in the face of delusion.  Again, most atheists have real experience believing in a god, SO WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT with this mindset of god belief.

As for your brother, he probably caved under the pressure of knowing he was dying when he chose to accept your pal Jesus.  That is all.

Quote from: sflynt:
I really don't think she was trying to say that his wild "Athiest" lifestyle was what killed him... I believe She was just trying to state that he lived a wild and crazy lifestyle that lead to his death, and he was also an athiest, that turned to God before his passing.


I disagree.  She (qon) is twisting ljnana's words around to make her brother look delusional for seeing "reason" to accept Christ during the last few months of his life.  Even if he did "cave under pressure of knowing he was dying when he chose to accept" Jesus, at least he had reassurance of where he was going for eternity. Also notice how she is constantly mocking:  "spoke of reason in the face of delusion," "mindset of god belief," "your pal Jesus." There is no need for that.  It's really none of qon's business whether he accepted Christ or not - it was his business. Ljnana was not mocking qon when she posted what she felt was very important to her only to get "slapped in the face" so to speak.  
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jordandog on October 12, 2010, 10:00:40 am
@jcribb,
I took what ljnana said in the same way sflynt did ie "I really don't think she was trying to say that his wild "Athiest" lifestyle was what killed him... I believe She was just trying to state that he lived a wild and crazy lifestyle that lead to his death, and he was also an athiest, that turned to God before his passing."

I believe you are mistaking sflynt's words as a defense of QON's reply and that is NOT what she was referring to. She was breaking down ljnana's reply about it, and not QON's. You are disagreeing with sflynt for the wrong thing here, the replies are being confused. Do you see what I am saying? If you want to say QON 'twisted' ljnana's words that is one thing, but disagreeing with sflynt about what she said should not enter into it - she is NOT talking about or addressing QON's reply to ljnana.

This has turned into complete confusion.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: sflynt on October 12, 2010, 10:05:11 am
@jcribb,
I took what ljnana said in the same way sflynt did ie "I really don't think she was trying to say that his wild "Athiest" lifestyle was what killed him... I believe She was just trying to state that he lived a wild and crazy lifestyle that lead to his death, and he was also an athiest, that turned to God before his passing."

I believe you are mistaking sflynt's words as a defense of QON's reply and that is NOT what she was referring to. She was breaking down ljnana's reply about it, and not QON's. You are disagreeing with sflynt for the wrong thing here, the replies are being confused. Do you see what I am saying? If you want to say QON 'twisted' ljnana's words that is one thing, but disagreeing with sflynt about what she said should not enter into it - she is NOT talking about or addressing QON's reply to ljnana.

This has turned into complete confusion.

@ Jcribb ~ No no, I meant I didn't think ljnana was stating that his athiest lifestyle lead to his passing. Sorry, for the confusion, (completely my fault for not being more specific when I said "she")

 Right, thats what I meant! Thank you Jordandog.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jordandog on October 12, 2010, 10:09:25 am
You're welcome, sflynt! ;) I know we all get confused at times and I was just trying to stop it before it went any further.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: ljNana on October 12, 2010, 10:13:42 am
Queenofnines and anyone else who flared up at the story of my brother, I had no intentions of upsetting anyone. I was just saying how wonderful that after such a troubled life with no hope to look for any of his life, he found what he Needed. And it made him very happy. More than happy. I will get to see him again, and my other brother, and my sister and my dad. Hallelujah!  
I am not trying to be dissagreeable, but you guys need to think and see if the statements are pointed at you or if they could be taken a different way before you get silly again.  

Thanks Sharmane, an jcribb.  I appreciate your responses so much!  Doesn't it feel good to say nice things to people ? Makes me feel good.  God is Love. :angel11:
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: ljNana on October 12, 2010, 10:16:05 am
Oh, I forgot to say, Queenofnines and your friends, I din't mean Tony died at 50 for any reason except, the habits and addictions destroyed his health.  Stop acting goofy!
Title: Re: Hi, I am Hooked on God and Just Need One More Hit.
Post by: shernajwine on October 12, 2010, 10:40:53 am
If people can sit in bars getting drunk and trying to fill some kind of void with alcohol and meaningless small talk with strangers....
     Why call me stupid for being in church on Sunday morning filling my spirit with the Word of God?

You nailed it on the head - that's exactly what it is (except you cheated and replaced void with "spirit").  * Insert people thinking I'm being disrespectful *  ;)

Quote
[/b][/i]
If people can stand up and scream at the top of their lungs and do happy dances at a sports event when their team is winning...
     Why call me crazy for shouting with joy for what God has done for me?

Hmm...if plenty of people can have the exact same feelings about things that AREN'T god, kinda seems like said feelings are all in your head.

Quote
If people can laugh giddily because they are in love....
    Why call me ridiculous for being giddy about my first love Jesus Christ?

Because their crushes are REAL and yours is...invisible.  Undetectable.  Based on a man that may have never lived at all.

Quote
If people can hold up their hands and lighters at concerts for a song about the worldly things....
    Why call me silly for lifting my hands in worship to a wonderful God?

Again, is the strong emotional experience not A CLUE that god is all inside your head??

*sigh*

It's okay I still  :heart: you  ;)
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jordandog on October 12, 2010, 10:45:12 am
I am not trying to be dissagreeable, but you guys need to think and see if the statements are pointed at you or if they could be taken a different way before you get silly again.
    *******************************************************************************
Oh, I forgot to say, Queenofnines and your friends, I din't mean Tony died at 50 for any reason except, the habits and addictions destroyed his health.  Stop acting goofy!

And you need to stop right now in your tracks and not lump any or all of us into the 'Queenofnines and your friends' group. We think on our own and post our own ideas. I am sick and tired of the christians (good) vs the atheists/agnostics (evil). I know, goofy and silly of me to even ask for it.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: ljNana on October 12, 2010, 11:16:03 am
I'm sorry. I didn't even know who was who when I wrote that accept I had read some negative responses. I only noticed the names of the ones who had talked positive at what I said and queenofnines because her statements are so strong. I didn't notice any other names.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: shernajwine on October 12, 2010, 11:28:23 am
“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” C.S. Lewis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxPlCbDlZo
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: sflynt on October 12, 2010, 11:51:03 am
I'm sorry. I didn't even know who was who when I wrote that accept I had read some negative responses. I only noticed the names of the ones who had talked positive at what I said and queenofnines because her statements are so strong. I didn't notice any other names.

For the record, I was trying to defend you too.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jcribb16 on October 12, 2010, 12:31:54 pm
You're welcome, sflynt! ;) I know we all get confused at times and I was just trying to stop it before it went any further.

Thanks, sflynt and jordandog!  I was only "speaking" to qon on that particular post.  I am glad you clarified it sflynt - in no way were my words directed at ljnana and her brother's choice.  It was totally to qon (and at the time your post did have me thinking it was qon you meant by she, lol) that I intended it to go to.  I appreciate you and jordandog clarifying that part of the post!!!  :)

ljnana:  I am very happy for your brother's decision and the relief you feel, too, to know where he will be for eternity.  Yes, it is great to be able to speak nice things to people!  You hang in there!!!!  Proverbs 3:5-6      :thumbsup:   :heart:
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: mommysworld on October 12, 2010, 01:15:18 pm
Good Luck with creating your new world domination or whatever you may call it.. My god's appointed prophets passed away thousands of years ago..
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: sflynt on October 12, 2010, 01:24:19 pm
You're welcome, sflynt! ;) I know we all get confused at times and I was just trying to stop it before it went any further.

Thanks, sflynt and jordandog!  I was only "speaking" to qon on that particular post.  I am glad you clarified it sflynt - in no way were my words directed at ljnana and her brother's choice.  It was totally to qon (and at the time your post did have me thinking it was qon you meant by she, lol) that I intended it to go to.  I appreciate you and jordandog clarifying that part of the post!!!  :)

ljnana:  I am very happy for your brother's decision and the relief you feel, too, to know where he will be for eternity.  Yes, it is great to be able to speak nice things to people!  You hang in there!!!!  Proverbs 3:5-6      :thumbsup:   :heart:

 Jcribb ~ ;D No problem! It was my fault, I should have been more specific. But I completely understand your post 100%!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: tammyrwa on October 12, 2010, 03:43:49 pm
Amen!- I love it too!- that is a good one!- another score for Jesus, and none for the kingdom of darkness. Jesus is not my pal, he is my saviour- you cannot equate him to mere human terms, no matter how hard you try. The young man who died is in heaven- he has his assurance that he is in the presence of God- the ones who scoff have a one way ticket to another destination. People keep saying that God doesn't exist- they are right- a god doesn't exist- the one and only true and living God definetely does exist- look at you and me- look at the world and all that is in it- no one has a good explanation how all this came to being- they just continue to throw bombs at those who believe. Those "athiests" never came to the true knowledge of God- they had a form of godliness, they had head salvation instead of heart salvation, which is not salvation at all- they were never saved- how do you say you beleive in God one minute, and then say you don't- you never had a real heart change.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jordandog on October 12, 2010, 04:07:19 pm
God called me to be a prophet. I am suppost to make a new religion, I am suppost to correct the uncorrect scripture, the scripture that has been tainted by human hands.

It's a new world order religion!

a) From what I have read, if you WERE called to be a prophet, you have no business saying it or writing it anywhere for others to see. You are supposed to be quiet, listen, and do what you are told while never revealing to anyone that you are.
b) You have never read the Bible (even though you "were going to read the whole thing" just a few months ago), so you do not even know scripture to begin with, let alone to correct the INcorrect - (UNcorrect is not a word)
c) Deceitfulness, rudeness, childish behaviour, and regularly doing things based entirely on a need to irritate large groups of people hardly seems to meet the criteria for the type of person any god would call upon to be a Prophet.
d) This 'New World Order' seems to be among the top 5 things Christians fear happening, so maybe that implies you are going to be a servant of Satan, since it is his NWO.

The odds of you following through with this, considering your track record (including that 10 minutes when you decided you were a Baptist), are 0:0, but let us know how it works out for you.... :confused1:
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: Huneza on October 12, 2010, 04:08:20 pm
....
Title: Re: My prophecy is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cuppycake on October 12, 2010, 05:33:33 pm
Religion is Like A Frog; It Doesn't Survive Dissection
Title: Re: My prophecy is being fulfilled.
Post by: Annella on October 12, 2010, 10:59:14 pm
Marie, stop this craziness.  When you post stuff like this, it makes you look completely bonkers!  While some of your posts are okay, and sometimes inspirational, other times you absolutely come off "shredded" mentally.

Honey, you need some help.  You really do.  Your being tormented in your mind, and don't even recognize it because it's been going on for so long that you accept it as normal.  Please get some counseling.  I know you think your OK, but you really are not.  I say this with love, and would like you to get a grasp on what is really going on.

I'm sorry to do this here, but you deleted me on Facebook, and I can't contact you on another venue.  This makes me sad, and helpless to watch this downward spiral that is manifesting itself in your postings, and has you in it's grip.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 11:49:10 am
Quote
When you post stuff like this, it makes you look completely bonkers!


Can I ask you, what stuff is it that I post that makes me look bonkers?

I know you don't see it.  I'm convinced that you actually don't.  You waffle back and forth on so many things.  It's obvious your mind is in such a state of flux, that you change it every few minutes or so.  I'll even go so far as to say it's not your fault.  Bonkers probably was not a very nice term to use, so I apologize if I offended you.  I tell people sometimes I'm going bonkers if I'm having a really stressed day. 

I know you have got to be miserable at times.  You need help Marie, and that's not a bad thing, or something to make you feel your abnormal.  We all need help at different times in our life.

If the conversations on this forum are effecting you so badly, then you need to get off, and find another venue.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 13, 2010, 12:40:23 pm
I believe in God, I believe the bible and the thought of hell does not torture me, nor concern me. It's all about understanding and perspective marie.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 13, 2010, 12:53:16 pm
Quote
I understand it just well

That's why since I have come on the forum, you have claimed all sorts of different Christian doctrinal beliefs, atheism, agnosticism, and God knows what else. Just yesterday you said you know without a doubt there is a God, you said you are a prophet of God, you also said you are a medium and today you are an atheist and mimicking things other atheists have said in the forum. So....no, I don't think you understand Christianity or atheism to the extent that you can accept or deny either one. You are clearly confused.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 13, 2010, 01:12:00 pm
Quote
Now I never agreed with God sending people to hell for any reason and could never understand him ever creating people to begin with if that is what he was going to end up doing.

If you never agreed with it, why did you start an entire thread telling the people that you believe harass you, that they are going to burn in hell.

You're misunderstanding of what sends a person to hell is what has made you afraid of it. Don't believe in hell if you don't want to marie but don't pretend that you never agreed with it. Believing in hell suited you just fine when you wanted to condemn people you didn't like to go there  ::)
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 01:23:58 pm
Sorry Sherene, I was called away, and really wanted to say what you just did....so thank you.  

To Marieelissa:
Unless you can understand your need for counseling, and understand the turmoil your in, and put in your postings, it will only get worse not better.  I don't think this forum is a good place for you.....I really don't.  Just a thought...not telling you to go.  If your being tormented by what is said on here, and it has you in a spin to where you don't know what to believe, then give yourself a few days away from it, and see how you feel then.  Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 02:10:08 pm
Quote
a) From what I have read, if you WERE called to be a prophet, you have no business saying it or writing it anywhere for others to see. You are supposed to be quiet, listen, and do what you are told while never revealing to anyone that you are.

It's not the Bible you read because actually everyone knew who the prophets were, where they lived, and that God talked to them.  A lot of the rulers and Kings would inquire of the Prophet(s) before undertaking something big.....like war.  Prophets were always being used by God to take messages to rulers of the land, individuals, or even whole cities when God wanted them to know something.  There was no secret who they were, and what they represented.

You may have gotten it mixed up with the point that sometimes God would call a Prophet to do something that they had to keep to themselves for an appointed time (not reveal the message until later).

Jonah was a Prophet that God sent to Nineveh, to warn them of their sin.  Some other Prophets are Moses, Aaron, Elija, Elisha, Daniel, Balaam, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Amos, etc.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: jordandog on October 13, 2010, 04:02:19 pm
Quote
a) From what I have read, if you WERE called to be a prophet, you have no business saying it or writing it anywhere for others to see. You are supposed to be quiet, listen, and do what you are told while never revealing to anyone that you are.

It's not the Bible you read because actually everyone knew who the prophets were, where they lived, and that God talked to them.  A lot of the rulers and Kings would inquire of the Prophet(s) before undertaking something big.....like war.  Prophets were always being used by God to take messages to rulers of the land, individuals, or even whole cities when God wanted them to know something.  There was no secret who they were, and what they represented.

You may have gotten it mixed up with the point that sometimes God would call a Prophet to do something that they had to keep to themselves for an appointed time (not reveal the message until later).

Jonah was a Prophet that God sent to Nineveh, to warn them of their sin.  Some other Prophets are Moses, Aaron, Elija, Elisha, Daniel, Balaam, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Amos, etc.


Annella,
I should probably have stated I was NOT referring to what the Bible says when I wrote that. I am familiar with what you wrote as far as Prophets and the Bible. I meant things I have read as to who the 'new' prophet(s) will be. They are supposed to be anonymous or undercover (for lack of a better word), quietly do what they are supposed to, and then reveal themselves at the end of the change.
Title: Re: Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 04:11:16 pm
Quote
a) From what I have read, if you WERE called to be a prophet, you have no business saying it or writing it anywhere for others to see. You are supposed to be quiet, listen, and do what you are told while never revealing to anyone that you are.

It's not the Bible you read because actually everyone knew who the prophets were, where they lived, and that God talked to them.  A lot of the rulers and Kings would inquire of the Prophet(s) before undertaking something big.....like war.  Prophets were always being used by God to take messages to rulers of the land, individuals, or even whole cities when God wanted them to know something.  There was no secret who they were, and what they represented.

You may have gotten it mixed up with the point that sometimes God would call a Prophet to do something that they had to keep to themselves for an appointed time (not reveal the message until later).

Jonah was a Prophet that God sent to Nineveh, to warn them of their sin.  Some other Prophets are Moses, Aaron, Elija, Elisha, Daniel, Balaam, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Amos, etc.


Annella,
I should probably have stated I was NOT referring to what the Bible says when I wrote that. I am familiar with what you wrote as far as Prophets and the Bible. I meant things I have read as to who the 'new' prophet(s) will be. They are supposed to be anonymous or undercover (for lack of a better word), quietly do what they are supposed to, and then reveal themselves at the end of the change.

Ah....my mistake.  You were talking about the NWO in the previous post, and I just didn't put it together.  Your correct, their deception and secrecy will be paramount to their plan (false prophets).
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: queenofnines on October 13, 2010, 04:36:58 pm
I understand it just well! This God deserves no respect if he created people only to send them to hell. My step dad is an atheist and a very good person, better than a lot of religious people, and he will go to hell?!? That is a bunch of  :bs:

You go girl!   :thumbsup:  This is me acknowledging you talking sense.

The concept of hell is a very good example of showing how the Christian/Muslim god doesn't exist.

I also found it funny that you used the word "affect" correctly and Annella didn't.   ;D
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 04:40:12 pm
pfttt....

Just where are you referring to?  I went back over my posts, and the only thing I could find was talking about my medicine, and it's side "effects"....which is used correctly.

Is that all you can do is go over my posts, and pick out my typos or grammatical errors?  Pretty pathetic and petty don't ya tink yall huhh...................
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 05:11:25 pm
pfttt....

Just where are you referring to?  I went back over my posts, and the only thing I could find was talking about my medicine, and it's side "effects"....which is used correctly.

Is that all you can do is go over my posts, and pick out my typos or grammatical errors.  Pretty pathetic and petty don't ya tink yall huhh...................

I don't think she is being mean or anyone else that does it for that matter...remember in school, when a teacher would point out if you are spelling a word wrong...it is just pointing it out to you or anyone else, I would like it if people pointed it out to me, so I can learn I was spelling things wrong...I spelled awesome, awsome and I googled it and found out I was spelling it wrong.


LOLOLOLOL  Right :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 13, 2010, 05:16:52 pm
Quote
If the conversations on this forum are effecting you so badly, then you need to get off, and find another venue.

Annella this is the post she was referring to.

Yea, tht hpens a lt 2 me wen im tred.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 13, 2010, 07:47:13 pm
Quote
If the conversations on this forum are effecting you so badly, then you need to get off, and find another venue.

Annella this is the post she was referring to.

Yea, tht hpens a lt 2 me wen im tred.

LOL!!! You go, girl!!!
Title: Re: Believing in God, doesn't make you any less of a person!!
Post by: Alyia72 on October 13, 2010, 08:53:53 pm
I think you have to know who you are. Get to know the monster that lives in your soul, dive deep into your soul and explore it.
I read all of you quotes and I have to stop you. Only you on here want everyone to treat you with respect with your religion, yet you belittle everyone else's. You have to give respect to earn it.
Naaaa she just demands to be seen and gets off on getting rises out of everyone.

Not true, I hate disorder! I like things to be harmonious. I don't demand to be seen. I am just in here having discussions like everyone else, granted I post a lot more but yeah.
Yep..that's why you make dozens of topics and lock them immediately so no one can discuss or disagree.  I totally agree with Amy that you have to give respect to earn it and the sooner you start respecting other peoples opinions and beliefs no matter if they share yours or not you will see that you will get respect in return. Somehow at this time I doubt that will happen though as it sure appears your just out to get attention.

Show me where I disrespected others opinions or beliefs.
The whole tactic you use by posting a topic in debate and discuss then locking it immediately so that no one can discuss it is disrespectful to everyone here your showing us you don't care what we have to say on the topic you just want to be seen but don't want to hear from others what they think.  Do I need to dig up all the threads you have done this on everyone that uses D&D regularly is all to familiar with you doing this.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 13, 2010, 09:46:59 pm
No, Marie, it is not kinda funny.  That's why I started a new one continued from yours so people could keep on what they were discussing.  Strange thing - after I did that, you unlocked yours again...
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 14, 2010, 12:06:51 am
No, Marie, it is not kinda funny.  That's why I started a new one continued from yours so people could keep on what they were discussing.  Strange thing - after I did that, you unlocked yours again...

I just think it is funny that people complain about every little thing.

Maybe you think it's funny to give people something to complain about?
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Alyia72 on October 14, 2010, 12:40:12 am
No, Marie, it is not kinda funny.  That's why I started a new one continued from yours so people could keep on what they were discussing.  Strange thing - after I did that, you unlocked yours again...

I just think it is funny that people complain about every little thing.

Whats funny is it was never a complaint you asked me to show how you disrespected others opinions and points of view and I did...That's hardly a complaint.  If you didn't want the truth don't ask.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: SurveyMack10 on October 14, 2010, 01:42:34 am
I understand it just well! This God deserves no respect if he created people only to send them to hell. My step dad is an atheist and a very good person, better than a lot of religious people, and he will go to hell?!? That is a bunch of  :bs:

You go girl!   :thumbsup:  This is me acknowledging you talking sense.

The concept of hell is a very good example of showing how the Christian/Muslim god doesn't exist.

I also found it funny that you used the word "affect" correctly and Annella didn't.   ;D

wow.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 08:41:59 am
 :cat:  Mackenzie!!!!  I've missed you!!!  Glad to see you back!  :)
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 11:05:55 am
Where you been girlfriend......oh wait, people might start putting us together again.

Where you been sweetheart??? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: madeara on October 14, 2010, 12:43:39 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 12:48:20 pm
Where you been girlfriend......oh wait, people might start putting us together again.

Where you been sweetheart??? :thumbsup:

LOL!!!   :wave:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 12:49:09 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.

Madeara, just ignore Marieelissa as she changes her belief system at random.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 12:52:56 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.

How can you reject something that doesn't exist?
You don't know that for sure, do you?  You have said before that it would be better to accept God and have your eternity secure than to not accept Him and not have your eternity secure.  You even suggested it for others to think about.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 12:54:21 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.
That is the best and shortest way to put it!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 01:00:37 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.

How can you reject something that doesn't exist?
You don't know that for sure, do you?  You have said before that it would be better to accept God and have your eternity secure than to not accept Him and not have your eternity secure.  You even suggested it for others to think about.


I know God very very well...he is so loving that it would be out of his ability to send any one to Hell...think about that for awhile
You are exactly right - He would not send anyone to hell that accept Him as Christ in their hearts.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 01:03:17 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.

How can you reject something that doesn't exist?
You don't know that for sure, do you?  You have said before that it would be better to accept God and have your eternity secure than to not accept Him and not have your eternity secure.  You even suggested it for others to think about.


I know God very very well...he is so loving that it would be out of his ability to send any one to Hell...think about that for awhile
You are exactly right - He would not send anyone to hell that accept Him as Christ in their hearts.

The God I speak of is not the God you speak of.
Then I choose my God.  You (in a previous post) are simply looking for a god that will be what you want him to be - that is not reality.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: HuffmanFamilyof4 on October 14, 2010, 01:07:23 pm
if there was a GOD he wouldn't  have made criminals so until anyone can answer that i don't believe
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 01:19:20 pm
if there was a GOD he wouldn't  have made criminals so until anyone can answer that i don't believe
I don't like it either, but I'm sorry you don't believe.  People who commit crimes are making their own choices when they do that.  If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.  So we that believe, and others that don't believe, must work together to try and keep things as safe and secure as we can only do or know how to do, starting with ourselves and our family and our friends.  Then, the higher up people need to do the same and punish those who have done the crime.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: amyrouse on October 14, 2010, 01:26:15 pm
if there was a GOD he wouldn't  have made criminals so until anyone can answer that i don't believe

I can see so many reasons to believe, and I can see many to not believe.  I can understand the disgust with criminals, but I can't see that if it is your only reason to not believe.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 01:44:06 pm
I understand it just well! This God deserves no respect if he created people only to send them to hell. My step dad is an atheist and a very good person, better than a lot of religious people, and he will go to hell?!? That is a bunch of  :bs:

You go girl!   :thumbsup:  This is me acknowledging you talking sense.

The concept of hell is a very good example of showing how the Christian/Muslim god doesn't exist.

I also found it funny that you used the word "affect" correctly and Annella didn't.   ;D

Congratulations qon on your new convert.  Maybe she can be your poster child for atheism?  
What a coup! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 01:50:23 pm
I understand it just well! This God deserves no respect if he created people only to send them to hell. My step dad is an atheist and a very good person, better than a lot of religious people, and he will go to hell?!? That is a bunch of  :bs:

You go girl!   :thumbsup:  This is me acknowledging you talking sense.

The concept of hell is a very good example of showing how the Christian/Muslim god doesn't exist.

I also found it funny that you used the word "affect" correctly and Annella didn't.   ;D

Congratulations qon on your new convert.  Maybe she can be your poster child for atheism?  
What a coup! :thumbsup:


FOR YOUR INFORMATION THE ONLY REASON I EVER BELIEVED IN GOD IS OUT OF FEAR OF GOING TO HELL...UNTIL I REALIZED AN ALL LOVING GOD WOULD NEVER DO THAT.

Whatever ::)
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 02:02:13 pm
I understand it just well! This God deserves no respect if he created people only to send them to hell. My step dad is an atheist and a very good person, better than a lot of religious people, and he will go to hell?!? That is a bunch of  :bs:

You go girl!   :thumbsup:  This is me acknowledging you talking sense.

The concept of hell is a very good example of showing how the Christian/Muslim god doesn't exist.

I also found it funny that you used the word "affect" correctly and Annella didn't.   ;D

Congratulations qon on your new convert.  Maybe she can be your poster child for atheism?  
What a coup! :thumbsup:


FOR YOUR INFORMATION THE ONLY REASON I EVER BELIEVED IN GOD IS OUT OF FEAR OF GOING TO HELL...UNTIL I REALIZED AN ALL LOVING GOD WOULD NEVER DO THAT.

Whatever ::)


Yeah keep believing A God will send people to hell if they don't believe.  ::)

Thank you, I will, as I have for the last 40+ years. Now excuse me, it's time for a nap.......zzzzz
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: anubabs on October 14, 2010, 02:03:20 pm
I'm not sure if there is such thing as help, but if there is, there are so many ppl that I know that may end up there if they do not change their ways.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: anubabs on October 14, 2010, 02:21:36 pm
I'm not sure if there is such thing as help, but if there is, there are so many ppl that I know that may end up there if they do not change their ways.

You know what I think, you people should be shot stopped from telling people they will burn in hell for eternity...it is an insult to our intelligence because we can't tell if God is there or not. I bet you if there is a God, he isn't a personal savior type.

I think no one should be worried out these anyway as long as ur conscience sets u free.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: amyrouse on October 14, 2010, 02:28:59 pm
Marie...have you read The Giver by Lois Lowry or The Wave?  They offer some really good thinking points.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 14, 2010, 02:33:06 pm
Amy, she has asked 3 or 4 times, that I have read, "Why did God create the devil if He knew what he would end up doing"...I posted my link twice and addressed her directly to check it out. After I did this, she asked that question again. I don't think she bothers to check out anyone's references or she wouldn't keep asking the same questions.

Anyone responding to her is wasting their time  ::)
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: tammyrwa on October 14, 2010, 03:44:26 pm
How does one know what a prophet is supposed to do if he or she is unlearned?- all of us are prophets- the difference is that when you give your life to God you are a "Spiritual prophet who hears from God- if you are not a Christian ,then you are just someone who tells the future by natural means based on certain factors just like the Christians. I am trying to get away from "religion" too- it is man made, full of rules, and does nothing for us, other than to divide us- let's all get away from religion and embrace true freedom in Jesus Christ. Once again, I say, stop saying that God sends anyone to hell- he does not- he gives all of us a chance to accept his son Jesus, as Lord and saviour- if they do not, then it is their choice- and the penalty is hell. God created the earth, he created man, and he has the authotrity to do what he wants- he makes the rules- whether you ever accept it or not. There is nothing wrong with being a good person, but realize that we can never be good enough  to earn our way to heaven, and we can never be good enough to say that we are ok the way we are without God. I have said in the past that it is pretty funny that people will accept that there is a heaven, but have trouble accepting that there is a hell- they just will cop out and say, if there is a hell, then I just won't believe in God, or they will reject the gospel message- I always thoght that was hypocritical- what do you say?.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: queenofnines on October 14, 2010, 04:52:12 pm
If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.

Hmm, I think you're going to have a problem in "heaven" then!!!
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 05:13:49 pm
Marieelisa,
Jesus only sends people to Hell that choose to reject Him as their Savior.

How can you reject something that doesn't exist?
You don't know that for sure, do you?  You have said before that it would be better to accept God and have your eternity secure than to not accept Him and not have your eternity secure.  You even suggested it for others to think about.


I know God very very well...he is so loving that it would be out of his ability to send any one to Hell...think about that for awhile
You are exactly right - He would not send anyone to hell that accept Him as Christ in their hearts.

The God I speak of is not the God you speak of.
Then I choose my God.  You (in a previous post) are simply looking for a god that will be what you want him to be - that is not reality.



I am searching for the real God...whoever that may be! I want to be sure I know the real God, be it zeus, Allah, Jehova, Jah or just me. Now you are gonna tell me about reality?!? Ha, Hey GOD where are you? I don't see you! I have to believe in something that someone else said because I can cope now with the thought of going to hell. Geez...God isn't reality, that is why we have to believe.


Now you are going to tell me my God isn't real...wow,  :thumbsup:
Please stop putting words in my mouth.  You can search all the gods you want - I was responding in like kind to what you were implying.  I hope that you will be able to peruse through all the different choices and find the one that gives you contentment and peace.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 05:18:00 pm
If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.

Hmm, I think you're going to have a problem in "heaven" then!!!
I said "if."
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 05:18:47 pm
If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.

Hmm, I think you're going to have a problem in "heaven" then!!!

For someone who touts that they use to be a Christian, and knows what the Bible says, makes your statement totally uncalled for.  Unless all you were doing was taking a verbal "spar" at Jcribb.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 05:20:51 pm
If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.

Hmm, I think you're going to have a problem in "heaven" then!!!

For someone who touts that they use to be a Christian, and knows what the Bible says, makes your statement totally uncalled for.  Unless all you were doing was taking a verbal "spar" at Jcribb.
I took it as such.  Just a petty remark to try and rile me.  Doesn't bother me!
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 05:56:12 pm
If God had made everyone loving and perfect, then nothing would happen ever, anywhere.

Hmm, I think you're going to have a problem in "heaven" then!!!

For someone who touts that they use to be a Christian, and knows what the Bible says, makes your statement totally uncalled for.  Unless all you were doing was taking a verbal "spar" at Jcribb.
I took it as such.  Just a petty remark to try and rile me.  Doesn't bother me!
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 06:03:18 pm
I got something for you guys, all of you people just believing in God to be safe i.e. not go to hell and/or see if he is there, this isn't true belief, You can't trick or fool God.

So if you just believe in God to be safe then that will put you in hell because you do it out of fear...You are not accepting him or wanting him, you are just afraid of what he will do to you.

So, no I think you need to really believe in God to get to heaven, not just pretend.


I'm not pretending.  My faith is real, genuine, loving and fearful (He is God, after all, and He expects me to live my life for Him. Sometimes that is very hard considering we all are sinners and human and get our own selves in trouble.  I'm glad He is forgiving, as well.)
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 14, 2010, 06:21:12 pm
I got something for you guys, all of you people just believing in God to be safe i.e. not go to hell and/or see if he is there, this isn't true belief, You can't trick or fool God.

So if you just believe in God to be safe then that will put you in hell because you do it out of fear...You are not accepting him or wanting him, you are just afraid of what he will do to you.

So, no I think you need to really believe in God to get to heaven, not just pretend.



How little you understand our hearts toward God.  We don't serve Him out of fear.  We reverence His power, but we serve Him because we LOVE him.  We also feel His love for us.  It's a personal relationship.  Maybe that's what mixes you up because you wanted to be a Christian for fear of hell.

Now...I'll admit, the thought of hell is terrifying, but I don't let that enter into my worship, and relationship with the lover of my soul.  We may come to Him in fear, but perfect love casteth out fear.  The more we know Him, live for Him, and realize how much he loves us, and made a way for us to escape, fear doesn't enter into it.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 14, 2010, 08:27:36 pm
I think it's so amazing that the old testament is full of stories of people who loved God with all their heart. People like to say the God of the old testament is so cruel....but people lived in grace even then. David wrote so many hymns and praises to God, the God that some here have called a maniac. David loved God with all his heart and you can feel his heart pouring out in his psalms!  :heart:

The law was harsh but it showed the need for the Messiah. The law showed we can't be good enough, Jesus came so we could be righteous through Him and stand blameless before the throne of God! God is so good!
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: jcribb16 on October 14, 2010, 08:29:16 pm
I think it's so amazing that the old testament is full of stories of people who loved God with all their heart. People like to say the God of the old testament is so cruel....but people lived in grace even then. David wrote so many hymns and praises to God, the God that some here have called a maniac. David loved God with all his heart and you can feel his heart pouring out in his psalms!  :heart:

The law was harsh but it showed the need for the Messiah. The law showed we can't be good enough, Jesus came so we could be righteous through Him and stand blameless before the throne of God! God is so good!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: bschumacher on October 14, 2010, 08:35:44 pm
Hell is an exceptionally malicious human concept...just like our arrogant pettiness! If we want to be close to God's sunlight, we must rid ourselves of these vindictive notions and focus on being of service to our family, community, country, and world.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on October 15, 2010, 12:53:05 pm
I've seen that picture, and it merely inspires awe at God and how big and awesome He is  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Annella on October 15, 2010, 02:39:48 pm
I've seen that picture, and it merely inspires awe at God and how big and awesome He is  :thumbsup:

That it does! :heart:

Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: queenofnines on October 26, 2010, 08:12:12 am
You're right, I believed in God out of fear. There really is no reason for me to believe in something I am not sure exists or not but since the hell part of it is there, I just went ahead and believed so I never had to go to hell, just incase this God is the real God.

There are many empty threats/scams in the world, marie...don't fall for the biggest one.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: healthfreedom on October 26, 2010, 05:02:26 pm
If a person does not believe in hell, then he/she does not really believe the Bible. Jesus taught more about hell than any other writer in the Bible.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on November 05, 2010, 06:23:23 pm
marie, I am not sure about a lot of things but if you love God and want to know more about you. You will NOT go to hell. Even if you don't believe in heaven or hell, even if you don't understand everything in the bible. If you believe Jesus died for your sins, you are saved.

I say this, not in answer to WHY God would send anyone there but to help assure you that you don't have to fear it.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: shernajwine on November 05, 2010, 06:47:58 pm
marie, I am not sure about a lot of things but if you love God and want to know more about you. You will NOT go to hell. Even if you don't believe in heaven or hell, even if you don't understand everything in the bible. If you believe Jesus died for your sins, you are saved.

I say this, not in answer to WHY God would send anyone there but to help assure you that you don't have to fear it.

I have been afraid I will go to hell for the longest time...it gets overwhelming sometimes. I wish I could like talk to God and ask him if I am going.

But I'm telling you, you are not going. How can I say that if I'm not God? Because I know what the bible says about salvation and according to that, you will not go to hell.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: Falconer02 on November 05, 2010, 07:27:41 pm
Quote
If a person does not believe in hell, then he/she does not really believe the Bible.

Absolutely brilliant deduction, Holmes!
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: tzs on November 05, 2010, 09:30:08 pm
Quote
If a person does not believe in hell, then he/she does not really believe the Bible.

Absolutely brilliant deduction, Holmes!
yep, that's like sayin':

~If your clock doesn't "tick", than it must not "tock" either, huh?"

Rolmflol-this is priceless!
Title: Re: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: SurveyMack10 on November 05, 2010, 10:11:04 pm
:cat:  Mackenzie!!!!  I've missed you!!!  Glad to see you back!  :)

I just saw this! I cannot seem to stay up to date on here with everything else going on haha
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: SurveyMack10 on November 05, 2010, 10:11:51 pm
Where you been girlfriend......oh wait, people might start putting us together again.

Where you been sweetheart??? :thumbsup:

I just saw this as well haha, of course I've been doing a buncha school stuff and can't seem to stay up to date on here!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 07:55:48 pm
Did you all know that SCIENTISTS have proved that there is a section of the brain that is not available for use to anyone who does not believe in God.  It is only used when God is showing an individual an awesome secret.  Many scientists have become Christians when they had planned to devote their entire lives to prove there was no God.  In trying to prove this, they found out instead that there is a God.  Amen! 8)

It's the God Center.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 07:57:39 pm
That seems to be the way it is on the forums and in life...Yeah, if you believe in God, you're not intelligent...so just die...hahaha well maybe atheists don't want you to die but they will have fun making fun of you.  :wave:
Okay let me stop you there,, retard? Really? How rude and selfish of you.

Really, you don't notice non believers jump on believers in this forum and try to insult their intelligence. Not being rude, just pointing out the truth.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 07:58:34 pm
Well i'm a retard, because I believe in something greater than myself, and you are arrogant to assume that just because someone does, that they are stupid- what do you beleive in?. you want to bow the the altar of science, then go ahead, but all I can say is you better not be wrong, because if you are, you will spend eternity in hell.

hmm I believe in God.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 07:59:11 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 07:59:59 pm
I don't like anyone using the word "retard", period. Retarded people often have more intelligence than so-called "smart" or so-called "normal" people. To use the word "retard" as a put down just isn't right. Come to think of it, put downs are unnecessary at any age.

I know what you mean, even if literally speaking they do not have more intelligence. Sometimes it's the simplest people that have the biggest hearts and most compassion.

God works in mysterious ways
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 08:00:32 pm
I believe in God, and get called unintelligent all the time on this forum by atheists or people that don't share my beliefs.

well the important thing is that you know who you are and who you belong to. if anyone says anything different than that is ill-informed by choice.

 ;)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 08:01:09 pm
i believe in god, and i dislike when people tell me i shouldnt. i believe in him for a reason. and that will never change.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 08:02:14 pm
Quote
Most people that have an earnings banner that high in that short amount of time get kicked off Fusion Cash because of fraud.

Hehe, you talking about fraud, that's funny. Have you ever seen the number of referrals missijl has? I have and it's amazing! 8)

haha you talking at all...you mean typing. Fraud? Who me? Whatcha talking bout?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 08:04:54 pm

I think there's only one retarded person in D+D and most of us know who that one person is.

I would question the belief in a god who only chooses the ones with mental handicaps/disorders to experience his awesomeness.

God works in mysterious ways.

Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 05, 2010, 08:07:33 pm
But please stop making a mockery of other people's faiths and beliefs.  That's part of debating accepting the fact that people have different opinion's and beliefs its not an open crusade to convert everyone over to your personal beliefs. 

I don't even know why I bother, go ahead be mean to one another, HAVE FUN...I am over it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: debvance on December 06, 2010, 04:49:00 am
Well i'm a retard, because I believe in something greater than myself, and you are arrogant to assume that just because someone does, that they are stupid- what do you beleive in?. you want to bow the the altar of science, then go ahead, but all I can say is you better not be wrong, because if you are, you will spend eternity in hell.

Well we are all living in hell now...The world isnt getting any better so better get your GOD on the ball and get this world right.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 06:54:57 am
The #1 greatest harm of being just a "moderate" Christian is: you're still a member of a club where some people do horrible things under the cover of the same beliefs that you share.  The more people that are in the club, the more encouragement is given to the mindset that makes some people feel justified murdering gays, tormenting a woman who got an abortion to the point of suicide, voting against civil rights, miring our children's educational system, etc.


Who cares?!? I am responsible for myself and what I do. Just because someone does something bad in God's name doesn't mean anything to me. I won't get in trouble for what others do.

It's like saying since a few blond hair blue eyed people killed then all blond hair blued eyed people are bad and they need to dye their hair or something. I don't choose to believe in God, I always believed in a creator.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 06:59:07 am
The #2 greatest harm even for a "moderate" believer is: once they've allowed magical, impossible, woo-woo thinking to infiltrate their brain, they're going to be more susceptible to other B.S. throughout their life.  This includes - on the small-scale - of falling for scams, to the greater dangers of putting too much trust in a pastor that says donate $100 and god will fix all of their debt problems.
that's the biggest crap I have heard. God is on another level girl.
I thought Fusion cash was bs but I was curious and when I got paid I was like hmm

Quote
Another example is let's say a believer is held up in an alley and a voice inside their head - that they think is god - says, "You don't have to give him the money.  Tell him about Christ, and you'll be okay."  And so you say that and guess what happens?  Your husband beside you gets shot directly because you thought "god" was going to get you out of this mess.  Don't tell me that something like this couldn't happen, because I've been a Christian and I know the mindset, and it most certainly does!

Wow, well the voice of God when followed by me always prevents bad things from happening. You need to be careful and learn the difference between God and the Devil.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:05:20 am

The #3 greatest harm deals with this.  Has life after death been proven?  No, not even in the slightest.
It hasn't been disproved either BECAUSE you don't have the resources and only limited minds.  
Quote
When y'all think of a "soul", most of the time you're referring to your personality, but guess what?  Personality is located 100% in the brain.
Your soul is your energy, your heart in a way.  

Quote
But anyway, back to the harm...so you are having people convince themselves of a lie just because they're sad about death.  They may, in turn, take their one and only life for granted if they think the "real" life starts after they die.  It is a death cult: don't worry too much about living *this* life to the fullest, because it is just the doormat you wipe your feet on before entering eternity (of which we have no proof of).  If someone dies in a car wreck and has their soul - er, brain - splattered all over the highway, instead of remembering them and actually grieving, we can forget about them over a weekend simply because we say they're in magical Happy Land.
They may but not all people, I live my life like there is no tomorrow and I have had a nice life.

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The only harm then, is to the one who does not accept the "message" and goes to hell.

The only ones scared of hell are the ones that know they will go.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:27:26 am
Queen has posted this video before, and I agree with it.  http://www.youtube.com/user/gogreen18?blend=4&ob=4

The reason why many atheists (and some believers) care about religion so much is because many followers use it when it comes to government.  The mirror can be flipped.  If a believer is so staunchly in support of their religion, why do they feel the need to use it to legislate?  Gay rights, reproductive and sexual rights (Sarah Palin comes to mind here, esp when looking at her daughter and how birth control could have come in handy), and so many other progressive issues are being pushed down by conservative believers that feel their morals should be utilized hand in hand with legislation.  Think homosexuality is a sin?  Fine...keep it personal for you, and don't try to push that belief upon those who don't agree, and are living their lives.  I'm not targeting anyone on this forum personally...I'm just giving an explanation here.  I have 613 commandments that I try to follow personally...but I am not expecting anyone else to follow those commandments.  I think that religion will not be as heated a topic when someday people stop making it that way...all people.

Well blame the system, if you want something to change then vote.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:32:35 am

You're missing the point.  It's like being a member of the *bleep* party and saying, "Well, I'm not a 'bad' *bleep*.  I'm not the one gassing Jews and stuff."  Do you see the problem here??

Kind of like being part of the human race, huh! I'm not a bad human. I don't spank my kids or eat animals and hurt people or steal and kill.


Quote
Oh really?  In America, only 16% of the population is atheist and/or non-religious.  72% is Christian.  So where are all of these "atheists doing bad things" that you speak of?
You think Christians or believers are the only ones doing anything wrong in this world? haha

Quote
While it's true there are some atheists who hate gays, are pro-life, and whatever else is in common with a god believer, we rarely hear about it because compared to the religious, there are FAR fewer non-believers that hold these "values".
LOOK, like you said there are more believers and people are people, we are not perfect. Why is it all you atheists expect so much out of believers but nothing out of yourselves?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:35:58 am
these kinds of things also happen to atheist and non-christian groups who all of a sudden called "by God" to do these things.

This sentence doesn't make sense.  How can an atheist be called "by god" to do something bad?

Quote
Those are highly publicized cases you are speaking of

What does it matter if it was on the news or not?  Plenty of atrocities as the result of religion never make the news.  I think the fact that something like raping little boys is going on AT ALL because of religion is cause for concern.  Don't brush it off as, "Oh, I'm a civilzed Christian.  The believers that do bad things aren't really believers."  You have to take a look at how your religious ideas are affecting the world at large.

Want to argue that it's not religion that's the problem?  In the case of priests raping little boys, consider that they are in a religion that expects them to be celibate, says sex is a disgrace except within the confines of marriage, abhors homosexuality, etc.  Think about all of that repressed sexual tension...

Don't forget the devil is very active in this world.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:37:42 am
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...if that was the case all rapists would be that religion.

Exactly!
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:41:29 am
Priests don't rape those children because of their religion...

Why is there such a high concentration of pedophiles in that position then?

Remember him? Yeah, it's him and he tempts and could practically force you. why you ask, look at what you are doing, he tempts them and then you use it against God and Look at who you are trying to bring forth and steal God's children.

(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/devil.jpg)
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:42:18 am
You know if only black people believed in God, what you are doing would be considered racist and predjudice! Shoot, just for me saying this will be considered racist and predjudice...  :sad1:

There you go again, bringing up black people because no one has paid attention to you in awhile.   ::)  Psst...it only makes you look like the racist bringing them up so often and for no reason, marie!

Did you just pull that one right out of your butt?
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:43:31 am
To me, you simply sound as if you are totally against Christians, no matter how many law-abiding, good moral ones that there are.

And this is a typical response.  I'm not against the "good" Christians like you think...I still think it's unfortunate that their one and only life is based on something that's not true, for sure, but if they can keep their beliefs within the confines of their church and homes, it's cool.  Christianity at large CAN'T seem to do this, however, and that's where the problem lies.

Why should we have to? We have the freedom to bring God wherever we want.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 07:48:06 am

Do you still think those men would have flown planes into buildings on 9/11 (or blow themselves up on a daily basis) had they not thought they were getting 72 virgins in heaven?  It's possible, but a LOT less likely.  People only kill themselves in this way if #1 - they're nuts or #2 - they believe they'll receive an eternal reward.
this is a different religion. Besides it is a war against countries, they would of done it a different way with a different belief system.


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How about the parents that let their kids die because they PRAY for them rather than taking them to the doctor?  Again, they MEAN well by trying to serve their god, but reality gets the best of them because prayer doesn't work.  There is no god there to cure a disease that needs attention from medical professionals.  If they knew this, you can bet most would not neglect their children!

Let me ask you this, how many people do you think would be alive today without the belief in God from the beginning? Do you really think people would be better off or would the world be hell. I think it would be hell and there wouldn't be many people on Earth.


I have heard lots of people say if they knew for a fact there was no God they would kill themselves and also Suicide rates would go up because people know they won't go to hell.

Crime rates would sky rocket because now they know they only have to watch out for cops.
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: teflonfanatic on December 06, 2010, 08:29:56 am
Is this topic about hell or re****** people?  ???
Title: Re: No such thing as hell, God would never do that
Post by: marieelissa on December 06, 2010, 10:00:12 am
Is this topic about hell or re****** people?  ???

I changed the topic title since people couldn't understand I was saying atheists call believers retarded for believing in God. It is just a topic to discuss God.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: amyrouse on December 06, 2010, 07:45:55 pm
Queen has posted this video before, and I agree with it.  http://www.youtube.com/user/gogreen18?blend=4&ob=4

The reason why many atheists (and some believers) care about religion so much is because many followers use it when it comes to government.  The mirror can be flipped.  If a believer is so staunchly in support of their religion, why do they feel the need to use it to legislate?  Gay rights, reproductive and sexual rights (Sarah Palin comes to mind here, esp when looking at her daughter and how birth control could have come in handy), and so many other progressive issues are being pushed down by conservative believers that feel their morals should be utilized hand in hand with legislation.  Think homosexuality is a sin?  Fine...keep it personal for you, and don't try to push that belief upon those who don't agree, and are living their lives.  I'm not targeting anyone on this forum personally...I'm just giving an explanation here.  I have 613 commandments that I try to follow personally...but I am not expecting anyone else to follow those commandments.  I think that religion will not be as heated a topic when someday people stop making it that way...all people.

Well blame the system, if you want something to change then vote.

I have voted in every single election since I was old enough to vote in November of 1999 with the exception of a single primary election.  I have the right to complain, because I participate.  I study politics.  I study religion.  Do you?

Quite honestly, Marie, you have been acting the way I would expect a spoiled brat to act in the last few days.  You just turned 29... start acting like it.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 07, 2010, 03:06:21 am

Quite honestly, Marie, you have been acting the way I would expect a spoiled brat to act in the last few days.  You just turned 29... start acting like it.

Well I am spoiled  ;D I also act like a child because I am a child at heart. My mind is still very innocent. It  isn't a bad thing either because I do study religion and Jesus says come to me as children. I'm comin' Jesus, I'm here  :D

And how do you act 29? Is there a certain requirement? If you knew that my illness which is something out of my control makes me act like I am 2 sometimes then realize I am the exception to the rule.

Also realize alot of my post are very playful and silly and just how I communicate. I joke a lot and I'm not very serious. I mean I could say oh yeah bitc* with a smile on my face and laugh and people who know me in real life, know I am just playin'

I'm not going to change because I love who I am.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: johnpriestly1 on December 07, 2010, 06:03:21 am
I believe in God, and get called unintelligent all the time on this forum by atheists or people that don't share my beliefs.

well the important thing is that you know who you are and who you belong to. if anyone says anything different than that is ill-informed by choice.
=Johnpriestly= if you say you do not believe in God, then your are super retard
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 07, 2010, 06:15:59 am
I believe in God, and get called unintelligent all the time on this forum by atheists or people that don't share my beliefs.

well the important thing is that you know who you are and who you belong to. if anyone says anything different than that is ill-informed by choice.
=Johnpriestly= if you say you do not believe in God, then your are super retard

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: marieelissa on December 07, 2010, 08:19:52 am
if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are

This is interesting, I have never heard this before.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: Falconer02 on December 07, 2010, 02:28:53 pm
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if you say you do not believe in God, then your are super retard

Maybe "your are" not very self aware?
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: queenofnines on December 07, 2010, 02:41:11 pm
Quote
if you say you do not believe in God, then your are super retard

Maybe "your are" not very self aware?

lol
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: madeara on December 07, 2010, 06:06:38 pm
Jesus Christ is my Savior.
Title: Re: If you believe in God, You're a retard
Post by: feoplepeel on December 07, 2010, 10:36:09 pm

Quite honestly, Marie, you have been acting the way I would expect a spoiled brat to act in the last few days.  You just turned 29... start acting like it.

Well I am spoiled  ;D I also act like a child because I am a child at heart. My mind is still very innocent. It  isn't a bad thing either because I do study religion and Jesus says come to me as children. I'm comin' Jesus, I'm here  :D

And how do you act 29? Is there a certain requirement? If you knew that my illness which is something out of my control makes me act like I am 2 sometimes then realize I am the exception to the rule.

Also realize alot of my post are very playful and silly and just how I communicate. I joke a lot and I'm not very serious. I mean I could say oh yeah bitc* with a smile on my face and laugh and people who know me in real life, know I am just playin'

I'm not going to change because I love who I am.
...But you didn't address any of Amy's points, which were very well-made.  It doesn't target your faith and try to strike it down.  It doesn't call you names for believing in a God.  It addresses a point many people take seriously.  A religion I don't worship affects my life daily.  I've been called many worse things than retard for NOT worshiping God and yes, I do get upset, but I also address the points an aggressor makes, at least.  Shrugging off your behavior as childish does not a good excuse make--you are NOT a child and there ARE certain requirements for acting 29.  Namely, you're old enough to realize there are other opinions in the world and if your faith is that strong, you should research and learn about them.  You should stop using playfulness and an illness as a crutch.

I DON'T know you in real life or otherwise and I'm obviously not Jesus.  I don't particularly care how Jesus wants you to come to him, that's between the two of you, but when you address your fellow ADULTS, it's a different story.  I've read the Bible--no where does it say, "Go to your fellow man as a child."  Saying you have a personality that is childlike is different than being a child and it's a straw man to avoid addressing genuine arguments presented to you.  I've seen you respond to some things I thought rather ridiculous with, "That's interesting, I didn't know that." but you don't seem have the common courtesy to say that to someone who doesn't hold your same beliefs and just admit you need to learn more on the subject before you can respond adequately.

I mean this all very constructively.  This is set in the debate and discuss forum, but so far, I don't see much from you and I hope that changes.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: feoplepeel on December 07, 2010, 10:58:09 pm
Also, I notice today is your birthday so, all debate aside, happy birthday, marieelissa.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: marieelissa on December 09, 2010, 06:31:23 am
Jesus Christ is my Savior.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: teflonfanatic on December 09, 2010, 09:05:56 pm
Quote
if you say you do not believe in God, then your are super retard

Maybe "your are" not very self aware?

I think we can agree that we both think each other is close-minded. New age atheist religion think monotheistic religions are close-minded to educated scientific hypothesis A.K.A theories. While monotheistic religious people think New age atheists are close-minded to higher forms of intelligence and the unseen etc.  Does anyone on either side disagree with this statement  ???.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: amyrouse on December 12, 2010, 08:42:11 pm
Your are right.  The Hebrews are God's first chosen people.  However, the Bible also says that God is no respecter of persons.  In other words, no one race is better than the other. 
This goes against my belief. I don't know why Jews like to point out they are chosen. I'm not sure if they even know what they are chosen for! It seems like they would be chosen for hell, since they don't even accept Jesus as the Messiah.

It seems to me Jesus will look at all Jews and say "I never knew you"

Must be chosen for some purpose but that is not relevant in today's world.

Marie, I think you are just trying to cause drama.

Yes, Jews know what we are chosen for, and it isn't a huge privilege.  Our faith is much stricter than any other faith.  You know how Christians have 10 Commandments?  Jews have 613.  That is a huge difference.  Look at our history... even within the last century.  Don't speak of something you clearly know nothing about.

Something for you to remember, too, as you're going around saying Jesus will tell the Jews he never knew them.  Jesus lived and died as a Jewish man.  It was good enough for him, wasn't it?  So, why do you think that your belief in Christianity is so much better when you admit that you believe out of fear instead of love?

I'm really just an agnostic. I try to believe in the Christian God though cause that one has the worst consequences if you don't believe.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: queenofnines on December 13, 2010, 06:52:37 am
You know how Christians have 10 Commandments?  Jews have 613.

No, Christians have that many, too, they just make every excuse in the book to get out of them.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:17)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16)

...just a few.
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: amyrouse on December 13, 2010, 07:17:30 pm
You know how Christians have 10 Commandments?  Jews have 613.
No, Christians have that many, too, they just make every excuse in the book to get out of them.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:17)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16)

...just a few.

Thank you for helping nail my point home there, qon.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers
Post by: teflonfanatic on December 14, 2010, 10:33:17 pm
You know how Christians have 10 Commandments?  Jews have 613.

No, Christians have that many, too, they just make every excuse in the book to get out of them.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Jesus in Matthew 5:17)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16)

...just a few.

I agree with the first sentence, but not the rest. Your post is actually proof that Jesus is not the almighty God. You proved that not even Jesus can change the law!!!!!!  Although Jesus didn't change the law therefore not God, his father who is the only true God and Amy's God and my God did!!!!!!!!!(John 17:3)

Colossians 2:13-14 reads 13 Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him. He kindly forgave us all our trespasses 14 and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.

Now just cause the law is gone for Christians doesn't mean that Christians have no rules to follow, it just means Christians no longer need to animal sacrifice, Stone gays and the like. There's also no more holy wars for christians.