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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: marieelissa on September 22, 2010, 10:12:25 pm
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Scary Stuff, What Do You Think?
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hjl.jpg)
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hj-1.jpg)
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To each is own. You must study and decide for yourself. The proof is in the pudding. I will say this, that bible clearly says that you must be born again in other to enter the kingdom of God. That is biblical. Everybody have their opinion. I let them decided. Any religion topic is controversal. Why? because people defend what they believe. However Heaven and Hell does exist.
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If we didn't exist to realize that the universe exists, then would the universe still exist?
If a tree falls and no one is around to hear it, will it squash that squirrel that was sitting by it?
If you believe in God, but not in humans, then where will you go?
Those are fun, but the answer is 42.
P.S. Have you read Dante's "The Divine Comedy"? I believe the answer you seek is in there.
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Show me one manuscript, just one that has the word hell in it? Also can anyone explain the account with Jesus and Lazarus? Where was lazarus and how was he asleep if he was in hell or limbo etc? Did he have a nightmare? Matthew 11:1-43
P.S. The account is long but worth reading :thumbsup:
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i think do your duties honestly n let him decide where u belong
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i dont think you go to hell if you die without believe in god
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Scary Stuff, What Do You Think?
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hjl.jpg)
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hj-1.jpg)
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Scary Stuff, What Do You Think?
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hjl.jpg)
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/elissa_028/hj-1.jpg)
hey sheogorath need help on posting? dont just hit the quote button type in the box then hit post
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Do your research. Find out who God is. What the bible says about hell.
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If so, then I think thats pretty shitty. Bc there are good people out there that don't believe, and then you have serial killers, child molesters, rapists etc that do believe, so they get to go to heaven but the good ones go to hell?? just seems shitty to me.
EDIT:
okay, I don't mean that just because they believe in it that they will go to heaven, but say a child rapist went to prison for raping a bunch of children, and while he is in there he finds god, asks him into his heart and becomes saved. Does he not go to heaven when he dies? Why would anyone that commits such horrific crimes be let into heaven? (if heaven exists) ..... And then you have wonderful good hearted people that don't believe in it at all... they go to hell?
Thats the point I was trying to make. Sorry if anyone took it a different way. MY BAD.
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You have to do more than just believe... Like mrstina08 says, study the Bible for yourself and decide. Go to Bible study classes or something if you really want to know
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I've studied the bible in the past and it's full of superstitious hogwash. So unless anyone can prove this place exists w/o ancient texts, no. Nobody is going to any mythical hellhole when they die. It's just an extremely weak and harmful trick that enslaves people to be good. Nothing more. Besides, there's a ton of other better afterlife ideas out there that are just as legitimate as this one.
If so, then I think thats pretty shitty. Bc there are good people out there that don't believe, and then you have serial killers, child molesters, rapists etc that do believe, so they get to go to heaven but the good ones go to hell?? just seems shitty to me.
Considering the logic used, it's pretty obvious that this god has a thing for bringing in a community of horrible idiots through his gates.
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If so, then I think thats pretty shitty. Bc there are good people out there that don't believe, and then you have serial killers, child molesters, rapists etc that do believe, so they get to go to heaven but the good ones go to hell?? just seems shitty to me.
I have a very dear friend that is agnostic and her and I have had this same talk and discussion and some brilliant discussions about it honestly.
What I think, even as a devout Catholic; is that if you don't believe and at death you've led a good life, you could gain enterence into heaven. If not then how you could you ever say that God is all loving and all forgiving? I mean Thomas was blessed because he saw, who's to say that God couldn't extend that same blessing to others after their death? If you eliminate that for nonbelievers while on earth, then how could you call him all loving? Just doesn't make sense to me.
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if one doesn't care what the Bible says...then why worry about hell?
Drive through Nebraska and you will find your answer. Every mile you'll see a sign that says "HELL IS REAL" written on the roof of a house. Friggin' annoying assholes. Might as well just put "Screw you if you don't believe what I believe!". Ugh...headache inducing nutjobs.
If you eliminate that for nonbelievers while on earth, then how could you call him all loving? Just doesn't make sense to me.
With good reason.
(http://www.evolinium.com/images/Robs%20pics/epicurus-quote.jpg)
The christian god just got 0wned.
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I remember sitting in a christian church one day and hearing the pastor say this and it just gave me a sick feeling in my stomach. I really want to believe that my God is a forgiving God and that there is no hell but thats just me.
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According to the Bible, the Christian God gave humans 0wn-ership of the earth and all that happens in it.
Well your god is either a dunce or he's still completely evil. Considering christians believe that he's perfect/omnipotent/etc., I think this quote proves that he's not. Do you remember the unattended stove example? I saved a text document of it from long ago--
"God doesn't send us to Hell; we send ourselves there."
Let's take a close look at the above assertion. First of all, there's an assumption that an individual will have an actual choice to go to either the Nice Place or the Not-So-Nice place, somehow overriding the Divine Will of the omnipotent and omniscient Biblegod. This flies in the face of at least one variant of Christianity, Calvinism, which asserts that Biblegod has already picked out the "saved" and discarded everyone else. If your god is all-powerful, then he has done this. If he hasn't, he is not all-powerful.
Secondly, it is also assumed that Biblegod will not only know about this person's "choice" but knew about it in advance, and permits it to happen anyway. The usual excuse given for this is that Biblegod does not want to impose upon our free will.
Does anyone else see the problem with this?
I present the analogy of the Parent and the Unattended Stove. A small child toddles into the kitchen. In that kitchen is a stove with all the burners turned to 'High', and a ladder conveniently located right next to the stove. The child climbs the ladder, and falls off it onto the blazing stove.
Oh, and did I mention that the Parent is standing just footsteps away, washing dishes in the sink?
At this point, what Christian apologists would have us believe is that this is somehow all the fault of the child -- Who is now on fire and screaming in agony. To you, ladies and gentlemen, I just have this to say:
What kind of parent would go to the stove, turn all the burners on, put a ladder beside the stove, watch their own child climb that ladder, allow the child to fall onto the stove, and then just stand there for eternity and let the child scream?
The "free will" argument is a red herring, and a convenient excuse for not confronting the immorality of Biblegod. Any parent worthy of the name would rescue the child at the first possible opportunity, without even considering the child's "free will." Better yet, a conscientious parent would childproof the kitchen to prevent such catastrophes from happening in the first place -- And again, "free will" has nothing to do with it. It's just good parenting.
You do not do your god honour with this kind of argument, by the way. It makes your invisible friend look like a maniac.Please give serious consideration to the above, and stop making excuses for the inexcusable.
I'm not "attacking" ministers here, it's just what this guy is doing is ripping people off for his own personal gain. He's a moron. They live in NORTH DAKOTA...so be fore-warned everybody. LOL
Well there's another state I will never live in. lol
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JOHN 3:16. I'm sorry you're so worried mariellisa. Either you believe or you don't. If you do then don't worry.be happy
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Unless you're mentally ill, everything you have ever done has been willing and on purpose and intentional...whether it be good or bad.
The argument in the article is for showing the christian god is a fatalist-- that free-will is a hoax if you're christian. And since that's inarguably the case, there's only 2 ways of looking at it.
1.) He is either very imperfect
2.) or he is maniacally evil
This has nothing to do with mental illness. Do you understand?
Just because some people are just bad people doesn't mean God has to make us all robots with a non thinking mind who just follows his commands. What kind of life would that be?
Like I said, according to what christians believe, you are already a robot since christianity has flawed reasonings pertaining to free-will. If you think the christian god is omnipotent/perfect, everything you do is predetermined by god, therefore there is no free-will. The only problem is that you don't know what this deity thinks up for each individual, but that's pathetic cop-out reasoning at best and skips the point completely. And I bet it will be used by anyone who wants to take a swing at this article.
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i guess so
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If you don't believe in God then how can you believe in hell???? And why would you worry about it??
I'm just wondering....
Personally, God as an omnipotent being that resides over us all and decides how we will spend eternity is as strange to me as the idea of Zeus and the other Greek gods up on Mount Olympus looking down and meddling with our lives to amuse themselves and being sent to the Elysian Fields (heaven) or to Tartarus (hell) when we die.
It's not a popular view for sure and I'm sure to get blasted for it but the fact remains that the idea itself is foreign to me and I have trouble understanding the utter conviction of belief that I sometimes see in people.
And yes I do have spiritual beliefs just not any tied to a particular religion.
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God, hell and what happens after death is completely covered in the Bible, if one doesn't care what the Bible says...then why worry about hell? I'm posting a link to a site that covers the thread topic according to the Bible (http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell) (http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell) the information given is similiar to what I believe (except the part about the death of animals, because there are no Scriptures to 100% back the statement made there). There's so much posted on FC about "How can God send anyone to hell" and "What kind of God would send a good person to hell"? I think the answer to those kind of questions can be found best by studying what got Satan into trouble with God. Hell was originally supposed to be for him and the other fallen angels. In the Bible, in Ezekiel it speaks of Satan---the highest of God's creatures, perfect in wisdom, beautiful beyond description, a musician and on top of all that, he was given this high, exalted position. But, this creation, with all of these wonderful attributes also had a free will. Isaiah 14:12, tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." Notice in this passage all of the "I wills?" Satan does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God. People were also given free will. Those that don't want to be God's servant, those that do not want to do what they were created to do, those who wish to be "God" of their life have committed the same sin as satan and so will be condemned to spend a eternity with him and the other fallen angels. It's about MORE than whether or not a person "believes" in God, satan believes in God and he's still going to hell. It's about do you believe in God enough to let him be God of your life? Will you do what God created you to do? Will you choose Him, serve Him and trust in Him....Are you willing to serve Him with your life or ar you spending your life serving yourself?? To not do so, makes one try to "play God" of their own life. It makes one guilty of the same sin of satan. It doesn't matter how "good" a person is...satan was originally the BEST of the BEST angels.
That verse is about a fallen king it has nothing to do with Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does the bible say about death(a non JW agrees with the JW's view on hell :-D)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related)
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Yes, it says so in The Bible.
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Unless you're mentally ill, everything you have ever done has been willing and on purpose and intentional...whether it be good or bad.
The argument in the article is for showing the christian god is a fatalist-- that free-will is a hoax if you're christian. And since that's inarguably the case, there's only 2 ways of looking at it.
1.) He is either very imperfect
2.) or he is maniacally evil
This has nothing to do with mental illness. Do you understand?
Just because some people are just bad people doesn't mean God has to make us all robots with a non thinking mind who just follows his commands. What kind of life would that be?
Like I said, according to what christians believe, you are already a robot since christianity has flawed reasonings pertaining to free-will. If you think the christian god is omnipotent/perfect, everything you do is predetermined by god, therefore there is no free-will. The only problem is that you don't know what this deity thinks up for each individual, but that's pathetic cop-out reasoning at best and skips the point completely. And I bet it will be used by anyone who wants to take a swing at this article.
That's what Calvinist's think and is definitely not what the majority of Christian denominations think. Predestination is associated mostly with Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist religions or nondenominational charismatic churches.
This varies greatly from the churches that take their faith directly from Catholicism minor off-shoots; like Anglican's, Episcopal, Lutheran who believe solely in free-will and we as the individual have the opportunity to find salvation.
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That's what Calvinist's think and is definitely not what the majority of Christian denominations think. Predestination is associated mostly with Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist religions or nondenominational charismatic churches.
This varies greatly from the churches that take their faith directly from Catholicism minor off-shoots; like Anglican's, Episcopal, Lutheran who believe solely in free-will and we as the individual have the opportunity to find salvation.
You make a decent point there in separating them. Though the flaw still remains of this god either having malicious intent or being imperfect and having every Christian thinking otherwise. I really can't think of any example that could challenge this basic idea without falling under a massive consequence of belief.
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Not scary at all. I dont believe in Hell. To me it is a fairy tale world, and the only way it will ever happen is if you dont make santa's list and find all the bunny's eggs. So, in the end, I guess the answer is this: It doesn' matter:)
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Really? Of all the religions in the word and belief systems...you are assuming everyone on this forum knows what you are talking about and the context with which you ask the question......so I will presume you are speaking to the judeo-christian lot? PLease qualify your question and the audience you are wanting a response from.
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Yes, it says so in The Bible.
Please watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related
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Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
You should also post this over in the thread "I don't believe in the devil or hell."
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Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx0mqQXGeTg
Video picks up at 3 minutes and explains this PARABLE
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To each is own. You must study and decide for yourself. The proof is in the pudding. I will say this, that bible clearly says that you must be born again in other to enter the kingdom of God. That is biblical. Everybody have their opinion. I let them decided. Any religion topic is controversal. Why? because people defend what they believe. However Heaven and Hell does exist.
There is only ONE truth & it can be found in the Bible!
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when a person dies the only place they end up is IN THE GROUND looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into after you died. the end
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when a person dies the only place they end up is IN THE GROUND looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into after you died. the end
It's kind'a hard looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into if you're dead...
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It's kind'a hard looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into if you're dead...
Not if you were mistaken for dead and buried alive! Dun dun dunnnnn!
Scary Stuff, What Do You Think?
Well I'm currently creating cybernetic enhancements and I will convert myself into a super-powered cyborg with an titanium skeleton. As long as the sun stays lit, I'll live forever!
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If you think so, it will happen.
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when a person dies the only place they end up is IN THE GROUND looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into after you died. the end
It's kind'a hard looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into if you're dead...
yeah your right..I guess I had a brain fart
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when a person dies the only place they end up is IN THE GROUND looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into after you died. the end
It's kind'a hard looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into if you're dead...
yeah your right..I guess I had a brain fart
Lol, that's okay! We all do at one time or another. I couldn't resist! :)
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when a person dies the only place they end up is IN THE GROUND looking up at the top of your box that you were placed into after you died. the end
Ditto, the only way for hell(fiery torture/torment version) to exist is to believe in the lie that the Devil told eve which was you positively WILL NOT DIE(Genesis 3:4)
The churchgoer can't get around this since people continue to live after they die without the aid or blessing of God.
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well the bible clearly says that you must be born again in other to enter the kingdom of God... so I don't know you, what do you think?
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im not sure its all about where you wanna go...
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what a way to keep everyone on their toes...lol
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well the bible clearly says that you must be born again in other to enter the kingdom of God... so I don't know you, what do you think?
As far as i'm concern the kingdom of God is in one place Heaven. However Righteous people will also dwell on Earth Matthew 5:5. So some will not be ruling with christ and therefore can't see or enter the kingdom of God. Below is my analogy clearly only a minority rule in kingdoms yes?
I.E. one experiences the good and posterity of say the United states Government(Earth), but they can't enter or see inside the Government(Heaven)
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I still do not believe there is a god nor a devil it's all based on one persons ideals on a way to get people to just give away their money by scaring the word GOD into them..sheeesh.I have better sense then that.
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I still do not believe there is a god nor a devil it's all based on one persons ideals on a way to get people to just give away their money by scaring the word GOD into them..sheeesh.I have better sense then that.
The most prominent people in my religion make less then 2,000 a year off of this stuff.
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Thats a very good question:
God is a merciful God... He gives you options. The true question is where do you want to go?
I want to go to heaven.
There's a Hell.
God is Heaven.
Therefore, I believe in God.
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read king james 1611 to find out.
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Death is the end The only place you go is in the ground and you don't even know it.
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Death is the end The only place you go is in the ground and you don't even know it.
you got that right davidf938, not only do you go into the ground and don't know it...but you don't even care by then
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read king james 1611 to find out.
do you even know who the auther of the bible is, you even said it..King James, just because he says it's so, doesn't make it so.
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WHY ARE YOU PREACHING? :binkybaby:
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why are you shouting
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If you want to know about heaven and hell you need to read Luke 16:19-31. If you do not from your wicked ways and ask the lord to come into your life you will surely burn forever in Hell. But if you ask Jesus into your life and turn from your wicked ways. And ask him to forgive you and confess your sins. When it is your time to be taken from this earth you will live forever with our Lord and Savior in Heaven.
if you believe in God or not you will either will be going to either heaven or hell when you die. When you die you will have to face God as your judge and he will look in a book that will have everything that you ever did in it. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, Jesus wipes your name from that book and write it in book life. Only the ones in the book of life will be able to enter heaven gate.
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I do not believe, nor will I ever believe
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go to youtube and search for "The greatest story never told" by Zeitgeist it'll will tell you the truth about Christianity.
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I BELIEVE THAT A MONKEY, DOG, CAT OR ZEBRA COULD HAVE EVOLVED FROM EVOLUTION AND THE BIG BANG THEORY,,,,BUT THERE IS NO WAY THAT HUMANS EVOLVED THIS WAY...WE ARETHE ONLY ANIMALLIFE THAT LIVES UPON LOVE AND MORALS....LOVE IS NOT EVOLUTION,IT IS DEVINE FROM A HIGHER POWER :angel11:
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I BELIEVE THAT A MONKEY, DOG, CAT OR ZEBRA COULD HAVE EVOLVED FROM EVOLUTION AND THE BIG BANG THEORY,,,,BUT THERE IS NO WAY THAT HUMANS EVOLVED THIS WAY...WE ARETHE ONLY ANIMALLIFE THAT LIVES UPON LOVE AND MORALS....LOVE IS NOT EVOLUTION,IT IS DEVINE FROM A HIGHER POWER :angel11:
No animal evolved from the Big Bang! * facepalm* Evolution and the Big Bang are entirely separate events. And to say "evolved from evolution"...that is redundant. lol
That's interesting that you admit humans are animals, but deny we share a common ancestry with all other life. Your love argument is bogus because plenty of other animals have feelings...are you really that oblivious to the fact that dogs can feel sadness, fear, loneliness? Do they wag their tails just for the heck of it? No, they do so because they are HAPPY.
Also, love is just a chemical reaction in your brain. You have less choice than you think when it comes to who you are attracted to...for example, you will automatically avoid mates who share DNA that is too similar to your own.
Your second argument of morals is also untrue:
WOLVES
During play, dominant wolves will "handicap" themselves by engaging in roll reversal with lower ranking wolves, showing submission and allowing them to bite, provided it is not too hard.
Prof Bekoff argues that without a moral code governing their actions, this kind of behaviour would not be possible. If an animal bites too hard, it will initiate a "play bow" to ask forgiveness before play resumes.
DIANA MONKEYS
A laboratory experiment trained Diana monkeys to insert a token into a slot to obtain food.
A male who had grown to be adept at the task was found to be helping the oldest female who had not been able to learn how to insert the token.
On three occasion the male monkey picked up tokens she dropped and inserted them into the slot and allowed her to have the food.
As there was no benefit for the male monkey, Prof Bekoff argues that this is a clear example of an animal's actions being driven by some internal moral compass.
RODENTS
Experiments with rats have shown that they will not take food if they know their actions will cause pain to another rat. In lab tests, rats were given food which then caused a second group of rats to receive an electric shock.
The rats with the food stopped eating rather than see another rat receive a shock. Similarly, mice react more strongly to pain when they have seen another mouse in pain.
Recent research from Switzerland also showed that rats will help a rat, to which it is not related, to obtain food if they themselves have benefited from the charity of others. This reciprocity was thought to be restricted to primates.
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/5373379/Animals-can-tell-right-from-wrong.html
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"You", (your consciousness, not your physical body), doesn't "go" anywhere. It either continues to exist or, it ceases to exist. If it ceases to exist, it goes no where. If it continues to exist, it will do so in a non physical form, (sans any reincarnation scenarios), in either a non physical or, a physical "place". If that "location" is not physical, you're no place. If it is a physical local, wherever you go, there you are.
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I personally am of a christian belief, so my belief is that if you don't get saved you will go to Hell. You believe in God, but that doesn't mean your saved.