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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: sflynt on February 03, 2011, 11:30:30 am

Title: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 03, 2011, 11:30:30 am
They let their child die.... :( This is sickening...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death_toddler

PHILADELPHIA – A fundamentalist Christian couple who relied on prayer to cure their dying toddler must take their remaining children for medical check-ups as part of their sentence in the boy's death, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who belong to First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, were previously convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in the pneumonia death of their 2-year-old son Kent.

Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engel Temin said that, as adults, the couple is entitled to follow church teachings shunning medicine, which is seen as a lack of faith in God.

But the law says parents may not make that decision for their children.

"The welfare of the child is more important than the religious freedom of the parents," Temin said.

Defense lawyers had argued the Schaibles did not know how sick Kent was before his death in January 2009. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite, but the parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they thought he was improving.

Speaking in court, Herbert Schaible asked the judge for leniency to allow the couple to support their family.

"We are grieving and will always feel the loss of our son," Schaible said. "With God's help, this will never happen again."

Temin sentenced them to 10 years of probation, during which they are required to seek routine and emergency medical care for their seven children, ages 1 through 15.

Schaible declined comment after the hearing, except to say that they would follow the judge's order.

Temin said she wrestled with the sentence, noting that prison would not address the problem or serve the needs of society. Both parents have been described as upstanding citizens and pillars of their community, Temin said.

Herbert Schaible teaches school at the church while his wife stays at home. Both are the eldest of nine children in families who belong to the church as well, the judge said.

The Schaibles have never had medical care, except for a midwife who attends home births, according to pastor Nelson A. Clark. He said the congregation has about 500 members.

Experts say about a dozen U.S. children die in faith-healing cases each year.


What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

Well, I do.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 03, 2011, 01:45:58 pm
I have faith in God, and my family, friends, and I pray for different people/family who are sick, etc., and we thank God for the continual wellness and answer to prayer no matter the outcome.  I don't agree with the ones who go strictly by faith-healing with no help from doctors, specialists, etc.  These doctors are learned and have gone to school for practicing medicine.  I personally believe God gives these doctors, etc., the ability to learn what they need to know to help people.  I wish these faith-healing people would realize that doctors are there to help them and have medications or remedies to help them in so many different ways.  Prayer is absolutely important, but for these people to shun the help that would be a help to their requests, is a real shame and is a danger to the health of their children.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 03, 2011, 02:06:25 pm
I agree, It is a shame. Its very sad....  :'(

But what do you think about the sentence they got? Shouldn't they have gotten worse?
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 04, 2011, 08:30:58 am
They have a bunch of these stories at http://whatstheharm.net/ under "Religion".
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 04, 2011, 09:16:57 am
Oh my qon!!  :o ...wow...


Thanks for sharing. I haven't ever seen this before. You'd think it would be a real eye opener for people.
Its a shame it isn't...
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Theladyjoker1817 on February 05, 2011, 11:52:55 pm
 :'( :crybaby2: I THINK PEOPLE ARE STUPID FOR DOING THIS TO THERE KIDS YOU HAVE TO LOVE THEM NOT KILL THEM.. THERE WILL NOT BE A FUTURE  FOR THEM TO HAVE IF THERE JUST KILL THERE OWN KIDS... LOVE NOT WAR.... LIVE LOVE LIFE.... THATS WHAT YOU HAVE TO TEACH YOUR KIDS TO LOVE EVERYTHING AND TEACH THEM HOW TO RESPECT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS :heart: :peace:
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: bschumacher on February 06, 2011, 08:50:13 am
I think these people DESERVE a more severe punishment. At the same time, we don't want to punish the remaining kids by depriving them of parents & forcing them into the foster care system where this large brood would probably be split up. I'm sure the court determined that the mother & father were, aside from the faith-healing nonsense, good parents, and that, provided they're properly supervised,  it is safe to let them raise their kids.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sdecaro558 on February 06, 2011, 12:20:56 pm
God helps those who help themselves - that much is simply common sense in cases like this.  Faith does not involve the absence of action - it merely implies the presence of God with you in the actions you take.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mlhnceh on February 06, 2011, 12:53:04 pm
Although this story is a tragedy, I don't know what kind of punishment the parents could have gotten that wouldn't have made things worse.  Taking the remaining children from otherwise good parents would cause more problems.  Although they should have to take their children for well checks too.  How are they to define emergency care, when they didn't know their son was dying?
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 06, 2011, 01:04:12 pm
God helps those who help themselves

Which is the cop-out excuse Christians give when they know their sh*t is bananas.

Interesting how both atheists and Christians will statistically have the same chance of success/failure when it comes to seeking medical care.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mh874892 on February 08, 2011, 08:11:27 am
I've read a few stories like this and it is so sad. Being a Christian should not be an excuse for harming your child by not taking the necessary actions to care for them. I am glad that part of their "punishment" is required check-ups for their other children, but I do think harsher punishment was necessary. Such a heartbreaking case.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: slowg8 on February 08, 2011, 08:15:41 am
i agree with the post right before mine.  so sad.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mstachitus on February 09, 2011, 03:11:39 am
This is clearly a tragedy.  Faith requires action to actually truly be faith.  If we do all we can do to help the situation, and it is God's will, then miracles can happen.

Doctors have been given (rather worked for) a gift to help heal people.  Who's to say that proper medical treatment is not the answer to some of our prayers?  Why would God miraculously heal someone when it would have been just as easy to go to the hospital and get it done the conventional way?

I don't really know what more the sentence could have included for the parents.  They probably deserve a harsher punishment somehow, but honestly what more could they have done without hurting the rest of the children?
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 09, 2011, 07:19:21 am
Faith requires action to actually truly be faith.

No, the definition of faith is believing for no good reason.  Action does not come into it at all.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: lucky382001 on February 09, 2011, 07:30:58 am
They let their child die.... :( This is sickening...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death_toddler

PHILADELPHIA – A fundamentalist Christian couple who relied on prayer to cure their dying toddler must take their remaining children for medical check-ups as part of their sentence in the boy's death, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who belong to First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, were previously convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in the pneumonia death of their 2-year-old son Kent.

Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engel Temin said that, as adults, the couple is entitled to follow church teachings shunning medicine, which is seen as a lack of faith in God.

But the law says parents may not make that decision for their children.

"The welfare of the child is more important than the religious freedom of the parents," Temin said.

Defense lawyers had argued the Schaibles did not know how sick Kent was before his death in January 2009. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite, but the parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they thought he was improving.

Speaking in court, Herbert Schaible asked the judge for leniency to allow the couple to support their family.

"We are grieving and will always feel the loss of our son," Schaible said. "With God's help, this will never happen again."

Temin sentenced them to 10 years of probation, during which they are required to seek routine and emergency medical care for their seven children, ages 1 through 15.

Schaible declined comment after the hearing, except to say that they would follow the judge's order.

Temin said she wrestled with the sentence, noting that prison would not address the problem or serve the needs of society. Both parents have been described as upstanding citizens and pillars of their community, Temin said.

Herbert Schaible teaches school at the church while his wife stays at home. Both are the eldest of nine children in families who belong to the church as well, the judge said.

The Schaibles have never had medical care, except for a midwife who attends home births, according to pastor Nelson A. Clark. He said the congregation has about 500 members.

Experts say about a dozen U.S. children die in faith-healing cases each year.


What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

Well, I do.


 Apparently they weren't praying for wisdom also.

As for the more severe punishment they already are receiving the severest punishment a parent can ever receive. The loss of their child.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mrstina08 on February 09, 2011, 07:49:02 am
I really do feel that they deserve more of a punishment. People dont realize that Yes God want us to have faith, trust in him etc. He also want us to have common sense about the things that we can use right here on earth. How sad. To God be the Glory. Thats all I can say right now.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mstachitus on February 09, 2011, 05:19:56 pm
Faith requires action to actually truly be faith.

No, the definition of faith is believing for no good reason.  Action does not come into it at all.

That is completely incorrect,  Sorry.  True faith requires action.  Many religious people do not view it that way, though; hence the tragedy we are discussing.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: JessC2321 on February 09, 2011, 08:25:23 pm
Faith requires action to actually truly be faith.

No, the definition of faith is believing for no good reason.  Action does not come into it at all.

That is completely incorrect,  Sorry.  True faith requires action.  Many religious people do not view it that way, though; hence the tragedy we are discussing.

Don't waste your time with queenofnines. All she wants to do is put religion down. Am I religious? I don't know I haven't figured that out yet. But I don't go around putting other peoples beliefs down. Believe what you want but why go around attacking everyone at any mention of religion or God? What happened to you that made you so bitter and hateful?

As for the parents...how disgusting. Religious or not...get your kid some help! This is so sad...I can't imagine losing one so young.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 10, 2011, 08:11:20 am
True faith requires action.

But that is only your opinion, mstach, not the actual definition of the word.  I'm just sayin'.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 10, 2011, 08:19:49 am
Don't waste your time with queenofnines. All she wants to do is put religion down.

That is some big talk for a newbie.  Being that you only have 34 posts under your belt, I don't think you have the right to be throwing around incorrect judgments about people on here.

Quote
why go around attacking everyone at any mention of religion or God?

Been to the Middle East lately?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ImMtHrrKo

Quote
What happened to you that made you so bitter and hateful?

What happened that made you a sheep?
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Willie353 on February 10, 2011, 08:52:02 am
I believe in God and prayer but this is rediculous.. It is fine to pray but medical help shpould be sought too. The parents could be held liable by law :sad1:
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: mstachitus on February 10, 2011, 10:27:19 am
True faith requires action.

But that is only your opinion, mstach, not the actual definition of the word.  I'm just sayin'.

That is reasonable.  Everything anyone posts on here is opinion, however.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 10, 2011, 01:10:58 pm
They let their child die.... :( This is sickening...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death_toddler

PHILADELPHIA – A fundamentalist Christian couple who relied on prayer to cure their dying toddler must take their remaining children for medical check-ups as part of their sentence in the boy's death, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who belong to First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, were previously convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in the pneumonia death of their 2-year-old son Kent.

Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engel Temin said that, as adults, the couple is entitled to follow church teachings shunning medicine, which is seen as a lack of faith in God.

But the law says parents may not make that decision for their children.

"The welfare of the child is more important than the religious freedom of the parents," Temin said.

Defense lawyers had argued the Schaibles did not know how sick Kent was before his death in January 2009. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite, but the parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they thought he was improving.

Speaking in court, Herbert Schaible asked the judge for leniency to allow the couple to support their family.

"We are grieving and will always feel the loss of our son," Schaible said. "With God's help, this will never happen again."

Temin sentenced them to 10 years of probation, during which they are required to seek routine and emergency medical care for their seven children, ages 1 through 15.

Schaible declined comment after the hearing, except to say that they would follow the judge's order.

Temin said she wrestled with the sentence, noting that prison would not address the problem or serve the needs of society. Both parents have been described as upstanding citizens and pillars of their community, Temin said.

Herbert Schaible teaches school at the church while his wife stays at home. Both are the eldest of nine children in families who belong to the church as well, the judge said.

The Schaibles have never had medical care, except for a midwife who attends home births, according to pastor Nelson A. Clark. He said the congregation has about 500 members.

Experts say about a dozen U.S. children die in faith-healing cases each year.


What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

Well, I do.


 Apparently they weren't praying for wisdom also.

As for the more severe punishment they already are receiving the severest punishment a parent can ever receive. The loss of their child.

I agree that this would be the severest punishment for normal parents, but these people let this happen to their child!! They deserve to suffer waaaay more IMO.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: JessC2321 on February 10, 2011, 01:47:01 pm
That is some big talk for a newbie.  Being that you only have 34 posts under your belt, I don't think you have the right to be throwing around incorrect judgments about people on here.
:Shrug: I calls 'em like I sees 'em, sweetie.
Quote
Been to the Middle East lately?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ImMtHrrKo
I watched that whole video and it was annoying. Only because the girl was incredibly annoying. I couldn't take her seriously. I'll acknowledge that people dying for their religion makes me incredibly sad. Because religion is supposed to be about love or that's what I'd like to believe. As for the money and the pledge of allegiance I could care less. It could say "In queenofnines we trust" and "under queenofnines" I really am curious as to why that bothers athiests so much? If it doesn't exist then who cares? Money's money. And words are just words. 
Quote
What happened that made you a sheep?
Yeah, I'm a sheep. Hun, we're all sheep. You're a sheep too :) Sorry, but it's true. I dunno what part of my sheepiness you're trying to point out since I stated that I didn't know yet if I was religious or not. You're an athiest sheep. And some people are religious sheep. But we're all sheep in one way or another.

I just don't understand why you like to say things like "That's stupid christian faith talking" and "Skydaddy" to belittle people. You just sound like you're ranting and raving and you're not getting your point across very well.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Cuppycake on February 10, 2011, 03:19:43 pm
God helps those who help themselves

Which is the cop-out excuse Christians give when they know their sh*t is bananas.

Interesting how both atheists and Christians will statistically have the same chance of success/failure when it comes to seeking medical care.
Indeed! Religious bullshit is all it is !
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: cubarican210 on February 11, 2011, 08:24:16 am
That is so sad and I can't believe I didn't see this on the news. I'm from Philadelphia myself. I believe in God and I pray but that's what Doctors are there for to take care of sick people. That's why God made everyone different and gave them a talent. For a doctor it's to help save a life. As to why these people didn't take their child to the emergency room is beyond me. That is crazy.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: teflonfanatic on February 11, 2011, 11:21:27 am
They let their child die.... :( This is sickening...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death_toddler

PHILADELPHIA – A fundamentalist Christian couple who relied on prayer to cure their dying toddler must take their remaining children for medical check-ups as part of their sentence in the boy's death, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who belong to First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, were previously convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in the pneumonia death of their 2-year-old son Kent.

Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engel Temin said that, as adults, the couple is entitled to follow church teachings shunning medicine, which is seen as a lack of faith in God.

But the law says parents may not make that decision for their children.

"The welfare of the child is more important than the religious freedom of the parents," Temin said.

Defense lawyers had argued the Schaibles did not know how sick Kent was before his death in January 2009. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite, but the parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they thought he was improving.

Speaking in court, Herbert Schaible asked the judge for leniency to allow the couple to support their family.

"We are grieving and will always feel the loss of our son," Schaible said. "With God's help, this will never happen again."

Temin sentenced them to 10 years of probation, during which they are required to seek routine and emergency medical care for their seven children, ages 1 through 15.

Schaible declined comment after the hearing, except to say that they would follow the judge's order.

Temin said she wrestled with the sentence, noting that prison would not address the problem or serve the needs of society. Both parents have been described as upstanding citizens and pillars of their community, Temin said.

Herbert Schaible teaches school at the church while his wife stays at home. Both are the eldest of nine children in families who belong to the church as well, the judge said.

The Schaibles have never had medical care, except for a midwife who attends home births, according to pastor Nelson A. Clark. He said the congregation has about 500 members.

Experts say about a dozen U.S. children die in faith-healing cases each year.


What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

Well, I do.

I believe this group is known as Christian science, the upper Christian scientists need to be punished not the ones who are being thought this.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 11, 2011, 01:50:07 pm
I believe this group is known as Christian science, the upper Christian scientists need to be punished not the ones who are being thought this.

^^ wait.. what??

Those parents deserve to be strung up by their toes and beat relentlessly... then beat some more! (IMO)

But yeah, I see what you're saying.. I just feel that they all should be punished.

Punish them all!!
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: lucylaw on February 11, 2011, 01:55:09 pm
I believe in Jesus and our father God. Prayer is a powerful thing and miracles do happen however, there does need to be some common sense used. After all God gave that to us as well !!!! :angel11:
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 11, 2011, 02:07:27 pm
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?


Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 11, 2011, 04:42:55 pm
Quote from: JessC2321 on February 09, 2011, 08:25:23 pm
Don't waste your time with queenofnines. All she wants to do is put religion down.

Quote from: Queenofnines:
That is some big talk for a newbie.  Being that you only have 34 posts under your belt, I don't think you have the right to be throwing around incorrect judgments about people on here.


Whether someone has done 2 posts, 34 posts, or 1,000 posts, it just shows that JessC has already seen your true reaction/reflection toward God or Christians who believe in and trust God.  She is actually right about you when it comes to religion/God.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 11, 2011, 04:50:53 pm
Quote from sflynt:
I agree that this would be the severest punishment for normal parents, but these people let this happen to their child!! They deserve to suffer waaaay more IMO.

It's true that they have to deal with the loss of their child, but I do agree with you, too, that their child's life may have been saved if they had gone to the ER, doctor, clinic, etc. in the first place.  I do wonder if it has taught them anything and if they will see how important it is to have their other children checked by doctors and use the medication that the doctors prescribe for them.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 11, 2011, 05:35:16 pm
True faith requires action.

But that is only your opinion, mstach, not the actual definition of the word.  I'm just sayin'.

The following definition of "faith" comes from Merriam Webster Dictionary:

"Definition of FAITH
1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
 
2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith> "


The next set comes from Dictionary.com:

1.  strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence 
2.  a specific system of religious beliefs: the Jewish faith   
3.  Christianity  trust in God and in his actions and promises 
4.  a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason 
5.  complete confidence or trust in a person, remedy, etc 
6.  any set of firmly held principles or beliefs 
7.  allegiance or loyalty, as to a person or cause (esp in the phrases keep faith , break faith ) 
8.  bad faith  insincerity or dishonesty 
9.  good faith  honesty or sincerity, as of intention in business (esp in the phrase in good faith ) 


Faith as a transitive verb means to believe or trust.  
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Annella on February 11, 2011, 07:49:49 pm
That is some big talk for a newbie.  Being that you only have 34 posts under your belt, I don't think you have the right to be throwing around incorrect judgments about people on here.
:Shrug: I calls 'em like I sees 'em, sweetie.
Quote
Been to the Middle East lately?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ImMtHrrKo
I watched that whole video and it was annoying. Only because the girl was incredibly annoying. I couldn't take her seriously. I'll acknowledge that people dying for their religion makes me incredibly sad. Because religion is supposed to be about love or that's what I'd like to believe. As for the money and the pledge of allegiance I could care less. It could say "In queenofnines we trust" and "under queenofnines" I really am curious as to why that bothers athiests so much? If it doesn't exist then who cares? Money's money. And words are just words.  
Quote
What happened that made you a sheep?
Yeah, I'm a sheep. Hun, we're all sheep. You're a sheep too :) Sorry, but it's true. I dunno what part of my sheepiness you're trying to point out since I stated that I didn't know yet if I was religious or not. You're an athiest sheep. And some people are religious sheep. But we're all sheep in one way or another.

I just don't understand why you like to say things like "That's stupid christian faith talking" and "Skydaddy" to belittle people. You just sound like you're ranting and raving and you're not getting your point across very well.

They may be a newbie, but they have you pegged qon!  

The analysis was right on, and not incorrect at all.  qon likes to "shred" newbies when she can.  Especially anybody who has any belief in God.

Welcome to Fusion Cash JessC2321, have fun and make money too!  I like that you are not intimidated....good job!
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: queenofnines on February 12, 2011, 05:32:48 am
Definition of FAITH
firm belief in something for which there is no proof

lol  I like how you underlined this jcribb.  I find it funny as hell.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 12, 2011, 09:16:32 am
Definition of FAITH
firm belief in something for which there is no proof

lol  I like how you underlined this jcribb.  I find it funny as hell.
Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Falconer02 on February 12, 2011, 09:58:07 am
Quote
Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.

The evidence in reality and the lack of evidence in mythology is efficient enough that you should be able to lol. Commence the loling!
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 12, 2011, 10:06:16 am
Quote
Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.

The evidence in reality and the lack of evidence in mythology is efficient enough that you should be able to lol. Commence the loling!

Falconer, I repeat to you as well: Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Falconer02 on February 12, 2011, 10:13:34 am
Quote
Falconer, I repeat to you as well: Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.

If I get reincarnated as an male angler fish or praying mantis, you're completely right that I won't be. I'll be quite pissed!
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: jcribb16 on February 12, 2011, 10:34:55 am
Quote
Falconer, I repeat to you as well: Should I lol back?  You may not find it that funny one day.

If I get reincarnated as an male angler fish or praying mantis, you're completely right that I won't be. I'll be quite pissed!

All I can say to that is: Folks, here is sarcasm at its best.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Falconer02 on February 12, 2011, 11:03:31 am
No, I'm serious. That would suck! Just like faith healing and what happened to this 2 yr old. Getting back on topic, it's times like this that people should call up their congressman and tell them that these types of stories should be stricken with harsh punishment. Make an example of this couple and send them to prison. I don't care if they're 'upstanding citizens', they let a kid die. This is FAR beyond the line of religious acceptance/tolerance. If they get locked away, I'd hope that the other horrific and dangerous nutjobs out there would hear of it so this dangerously superstitious line of thinking would finally disappear. That's really awful and it makes me angry to no end. Stupid stupid people...

Quote
What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

*folds arms*
Break the rat husbands arms and legs with a baseball bat and tell him to go faith heal it.  
>:(
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Cuppycake on February 12, 2011, 11:14:57 am
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?



Only gullible people believe in any religious bs. Things like this are to be expected from people that will believe anything.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: teflonfanatic on February 12, 2011, 02:45:15 pm
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?




That's why I said that the upper christian scientists need to be punished because they took the woman's commonsense and do this to more and more people, go for the big fish not the small fish unless the small fish leads to the big fish.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: tommygun2 on February 12, 2011, 02:59:49 pm
I heard of that kind of religion. It's terrible.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: footemama on February 12, 2011, 04:19:26 pm
I agree with those that said that it won't be right to take children away from otherwise good parents. Aside from the medical care aspect these children sound like they are well cared for and "the system" would only split them up and essentially destroy their family.

With that said I think that the death of their child and being forced to take the other children in for well-visits and making sure that they are being taken for sick visits is enough. It protects the other children until they are old enough to choose for themselves whether they wish to follow these religious rules.

I'll play devils advocate here: If he really did only have congestion, a cough, etc. was eating and drinking fine it could have happened to anyone, including someone who DOES take their children in for well-visits. In my experience whenever I call the Dr office and give a list of symptoms and tell them I am concerned the response that I get 9 times out of 10 is sounds like a virus it will just have to run it's course. If I was REALLY worried we would be in the ER and if it continued for a week or so then he would be going to the Dr regardless of what they told me on the phone. BUT it could happen especially for something like meningitis.....we are trained into the sit and wait mode and then parents get slammed by something that can become fatal quickly.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 14, 2011, 02:13:37 pm
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?



Only gullible people believe in any religious bs. Things like this are to be expected from people that will believe anything.

and its sad.... sickening...
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 14, 2011, 02:16:57 pm
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?




That's why I said that the upper christian scientists need to be punished because they took the woman's commonsense and do this to more and more people, go for the big fish not the small fish unless the small fish leads to the big fish.

These parents chose to not think for themselves, and they CHOSE to let their child die... go after the big fish, of course, but these parents are just as guilty.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 14, 2011, 02:17:38 pm
Quote from sflynt:
I agree that this would be the severest punishment for normal parents, but these people let this happen to their child!! They deserve to suffer waaaay more IMO.

It's true that they have to deal with the loss of their child, but I do agree with you, too, that their child's life may have been saved if they had gone to the ER, doctor, clinic, etc. in the first place.  I do wonder if it has taught them anything and if they will see how important it is to have their other children checked by doctors and use the medication that the doctors prescribe for them.

Absolutely. I would hope that it taught them something.. I just can’t imagine losing a child.. but I would never leave it to faith alone. We have doctors for a reason, and they are good at what they do. I just don’t see how they could not take that baby in to get some kind of medical help… It boggles my mind.


No, I'm serious. That would suck! Just like faith healing and what happened to this 2 yr old. Getting back on topic, it's times like this that people should call up their congressman and tell them that these types of stories should be stricken with harsh punishment. Make an example of this couple and send them to prison. I don't care if they're 'upstanding citizens', they let a kid die. This is FAR beyond the line of religious acceptance/tolerance. If they get locked away, I'd hope that the other horrific and dangerous nutjobs out there would hear of it so this dangerously superstitious line of thinking would finally disappear. That's really awful and it makes me angry to no end. Stupid stupid people...

Quote
What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

*folds arms*
Break the rat husbands arms and legs with a baseball bat and tell him to go faith heal it.  
>:(

I agree Falconer.. I would hope that it would open people’s eyes. At least give a more severe punishment to those that let this happen. So that it would stop this kind of thing from happening again. That 2yr old didn’t even have a chance.   >:(

Definitely beat them… or something... I wish I could personally do it myself.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: ghelverson318 on February 14, 2011, 03:05:41 pm
they should have taken him to the doctor as soon as they saw he wasnt getting better. not really sure why people are or dont believe in using medicine. God created the people who created medicine so i dont see a problem in using it.
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Cuppycake on February 18, 2011, 04:27:29 pm
Obviously not.

Where was their common sense then?



Only gullible people believe in any religious bs. Things like this are to be expected from people that will believe anything.

and its sad.... sickening...
I really is sad. I know someone that has blinders on about pretty much everything! But then she is a "christian".
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: sflynt on February 19, 2011, 09:51:32 pm
I guess I just don't understand how people can go through life with blinders on... having tunnel vision.... not thinking outside the box. I've never viewed things the same as other people. I'm one that always has to question everything and analyze it to a point that I almost confuse myself. lol I hope that if/when something this terrible happens that it will at least change these peoples views, at least their perspective. Have them take a step back completely and think, "What the hell were these people thinking!? what the hell was I thinking?!" Just one moment where they question themselves and what they believe, and finally think for themselves. I hate that something like this has to happen to bring people back to reality, but maybe it will?.... maybe just a little...?   :dontknow:
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Cuppycake on February 19, 2011, 09:56:54 pm
I guess I just don't understand how people can go through life with blinders on... having tunnel vision.... not thinking outside the box. I've never viewed things the same as other people. I'm one that always has to question everything and analyze it to a point that I almost confuse myself. lol I hope that if/when something this terrible happens that it will at least change these peoples views, at least their perspective. Have them take a step back completely and think, "What the hell were these people thinking!? what the hell was I thinking?!" Just one moment where they question themselves and what they believe, and finally think for themselves. I hate that something like this has to happen to bring people back to reality, but maybe it will?.... maybe just a little...?   :dontknow:
Saddest part is they don't. They will just say "god has a plan"...
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: travislang on February 24, 2011, 11:28:31 am
if you believe in prayer then its ok with me, but if a child is sick take them to get professional help, you say god works  on his time not yours, so what makes you think he will save your child from death of a sickness, so go to er get help , what is so hard about that
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: angelhome on February 25, 2011, 01:41:10 pm
They let their child die.... :( This is sickening...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death_toddler

PHILADELPHIA – A fundamentalist Christian couple who relied on prayer to cure their dying toddler must take their remaining children for medical check-ups as part of their sentence in the boy's death, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who belong to First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, were previously convicted of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in the pneumonia death of their 2-year-old son Kent.

Common Pleas Court Judge Carolyn Engel Temin said that, as adults, the couple is entitled to follow church teachings shunning medicine, which is seen as a lack of faith in God.

But the law says parents may not make that decision for their children.

"The welfare of the child is more important than the religious freedom of the parents," Temin said.

Defense lawyers had argued the Schaibles did not know how sick Kent was before his death in January 2009. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite, but the parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they thought he was improving.

Speaking in court, Herbert Schaible asked the judge for leniency to allow the couple to support their family.

"We are grieving and will always feel the loss of our son," Schaible said. "With God's help, this will never happen again."

Temin sentenced them to 10 years of probation, during which they are required to seek routine and emergency medical care for their seven children, ages 1 through 15.

Schaible declined comment after the hearing, except to say that they would follow the judge's order.

Temin said she wrestled with the sentence, noting that prison would not address the problem or serve the needs of society. Both parents have been described as upstanding citizens and pillars of their community, Temin said.

Herbert Schaible teaches school at the church while his wife stays at home. Both are the eldest of nine children in families who belong to the church as well, the judge said.

The Schaibles have never had medical care, except for a midwife who attends home births, according to pastor Nelson A. Clark. He said the congregation has about 500 members.

Experts say about a dozen U.S. children die in faith-healing cases each year.


What do you think? Do you think they deserve a more severe punishment?

Well, I do.

this is shameful.. but those parents now have the opportunity to reflect.
was their faith not strong enough? They will suffer for many years.
My son who is 51 today, died in my arms at 15 months. the doctor grabbed him
and worked on him for 10 minutes, but handed him back to me saying he could
not do anymore.... I took him back and fell to my knees in tears. My 'baptist'
pastor was in front of me on his knees too. my son lives today, he came
back thru prayer as both of us cried & prayed together.
but i was standing in front of a doctor at a hospital... so what can I say?
they were wrong not to treat the child... GOD has given us many good
caring doctors and of course there are always the dogs, but that is in any profession. :'(
Title: Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone
Post by: Normandie on February 25, 2011, 02:11:45 pm
This is so sad i believe in god but i do also believe in medicine.  My heart goes to the other children and also pray that the other children go to caregivers who will look out for them in health and also faith.