FC Community
Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: rcampbell8 on August 05, 2012, 08:05:18 pm
-
People say God created ever. that mean he created the Devil and gay people. Yet people say god hates gay people. I don't get it. I think their is to many close minded people out there and God made gay people to open their minds a little. :female: :male: Never hurts to try.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
-
People say God created ever. that mean he created the Devil and gay people. Yet people say god hates gay people. I don't get it. I think their is to many close minded people out there and God made gay people to open their minds a little. :female: :male: Never hurts to try.
A logical inconsistancy, (such as the mutual-contradiction you point out), indicates an invalid premise, (that "g-d created" anything - no evidence supports this premise since it is a faith-based one bereft of evidence). Therefore, the inconsistancy is resolved by either inverting or removing the false premise; if "g-d" didn't "create" gays or devils/or doesn't exist and created nothing, then there is no inconsistancy and gays exist for other reasons than the specious one without valid basis.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
This is based entirely upon a religious belief and has no evidentiary basis.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their
own desires."
-- Susan B. Anthony
-
I don't think (and have never said otherwise) that God hates gay people.God loves all and gave us His all when Jesus died for us.People who are gay,chose that way despite what God clearly says against it in the Bible as a forbidden practace.
We are all guilty of sin,but we ought not live a life of constent ongoing sin.That's why we need to say the Truth in love,regardless of how un-PC it is,that the gay lifestyle is against God's Will.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
This is based entirely upon a religious belief and has no evidentiary basis.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their
own desires."
-- Susan B. Anthony
And your response is the main reason I wrote that my answer was based on what I BELIEVE, as a CHRISTIAN, and may NOT be accepted by others (such as yourself) who may have their own voice in the matter. (Which you did.) Just because YOU do not accept my answer does not mean it is not true. You gave your thoughts and I gave mine.
-
And your response is the main reason I wrote that my answer was based on what I BELIEVE, as a CHRISTIAN, and may NOT be accepted by others (such as yourself) who may have their own voice in the matter. (Which you did.) Just because YOU do not accept my answer does not mean it is not true. You gave your thoughts and I gave mine.
Actually, a lack of evidentiary basis, (your "opinion"), indicates either that no such evidence exists or, hasn't been presented. If it exists and hasn't been presented, why not? If such evidence does not exist, it cannot be presented and the contention/claim remains unsupported and false by default.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
Well that's all just a bit contradictory. God created these people in the most perfect way because, of course, he's the most perfect of all gods. Some of them remain perfect, like you, others, however, chose to become homosexual because god gave them free will. God calls this a sin, but, still, he loves them anyway because he's such a loving god.
You can't say god created people "in his image" and then blame people for imperfections, it's a logical contradiction. If there are any imperfect people, it's because your god created imperfection, and now blames his imperfect creations with "sin," but, as you say, he loves them anyway. Congratulations, pure nonsense.
-
I don't think (and have never said otherwise) that God hates gay people.God loves all and gave us His all when Jesus died for us.People who are gay,chose that way despite what God clearly says against it in the Bible as a forbidden practace.
We are all guilty of sin,but we ought not live a life of constent ongoing sin.That's why we need to say the Truth in love,regardless of how un-PC it is,that the gay lifestyle is against God's Will.
You may feel you're "guilty of sin," and bow down before a god in remorse. I'm not guilty of sin, I always strive to treat my fellow humans in an honorable, respectful and generous manner. If you feel guilty of sins, then you'd better get on your knees right now and start praying to your god.
I have no opinion about homosexuality, I simply don't care.
Incidentally, my immature little friend, you might want to check your spelling every once in a while, it should be "practice" and "constant." Expecting correct punctuation from you, as I well understand, would be far too much to ask.
-
When it comes to God, Religion, and the Bible... Don't try and make sense of it. You'll end up vastly disappointed.
-
I love how the naive are saying "Homosexuals chose to be homosexual". They obviously know nothing about homosexuality. It's like saying "Women choose to be attracted to men" and vice versa. It's completely natural, so there's no real choice in the matter. There is however a free choice-- abstain and deny who you really are or accept and be comfortable with who you are. If you grow up and realize you're attracted to the same sex, it's either completely natural (as homosexuality is seen throughout the animal kingdom) or, for the ignorant, a malevolent god is stacking your deck probably just to "test" you. Guess which side holds real weight though?
I have no opinion about homosexuality, I simply don't care.
I really shouldn't either, but there's just so much misinformed crap out there that the crazy bible belt throws around that I feel the need to take a side on the issue and explain it rationally. However after this post I'm almost certain there will be a few strawman arguments coming my way.
-
If everyone would just let other people be who they want to be--as long as that person is not harmful to society and others--things would be oh so pleasant.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
Well that's all just a bit contradictory. God created these people in the most perfect way because, of course, he's the most perfect of all gods. Some of them remain perfect, like you, others, however, chose to become homosexual because god gave them free will. God calls this a sin, but, still, he loves them anyway because he's such a loving god.
You can't say god created people "in his image" and then blame people for imperfections, it's a logical contradiction. If there are any imperfect people, it's because your god created imperfection, and now blames his imperfect creations with "sin," but, as you say, he loves them anyway. Congratulations, pure nonsense.
God created man in His "image" that is true. However, we are not God, nor a spirit, and are strictly human, which includes emotions, health whether good or poor, and so much more. However, we are to do our best to live as well as we can - a lot of this directed towards others according to behavior, attitudes, actions, etc. He makes it clear what He thinks of certain ways of living and of certain behaviors and attitudes. He also says to love our neighbor, our parents, etc. Those who will spend eternity with God will NOT experience any of those negative things anymore (sadness, bad health, bad people, hurting, etc.)
-
God L :heart: VES everyone! :peace:
-
Those who will spend eternity with God will NOT experience any of those negative things anymore (sadness, bad health, bad people, hurting, etc.)
That remains merely a religious belief, supported by nothing more than blind religious faith. Such beliefs are irrational, not only due to internal inconsistancies, (the prejudiced and bigoted beliefs held by xtians who expect to "spend eternity with 'g-d' will suddenly vanish once the bus pulls into the 'heaven' depot?), but to the complete lack of supporting evidence.
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
Well that's all just a bit contradictory. God created these people in the most perfect way because, of course, he's the most perfect of all gods. Some of them remain perfect, like you, others, however, chose to become homosexual because god gave them free will. God calls this a sin, but, still, he loves them anyway because he's such a loving god.
You can't say god created people "in his image" and then blame people for imperfections, it's a logical contradiction. If there are any imperfect people, it's because your god created imperfection, and now blames his imperfect creations with "sin," but, as you say, he loves them anyway. Congratulations, pure nonsense.
God created man in His "image" that is true. However, we are not God, nor a spirit, and are strictly human, which includes emotions, health whether good or poor, and so much more. However, we are to do our best to live as well as we can - a lot of this directed towards others according to behavior, attitudes, actions, etc. He makes it clear what He thinks of certain ways of living and of certain behaviors and attitudes. He also says to love our neighbor, our parents, etc. Those who will spend eternity with God will NOT experience any of those negative things anymore (sadness, bad health, bad people, hurting, etc.)
Yeah, I get all that, but it still makes no sense, there's still a major contradiction there. Your god is absolute perfection, can't do anything wrong, then creates the devil and imperfect humans, how could he make such stupid mistakes when he's so perfect? Additionally, he's omnipotent, omniscient and can see the future, how could he create circumstances that he knew, because he can see the furture, would turn out to be such clumsy blunders? But wait, as a perfect being, he can't make mistakes, except for the mistakes he created, I just can't accept those kind of contradictions.
What amazing incompetence, he creates all of humanity and then has to exterminate the human race with an enormous flood because he screwed up that project and has to try again, yet he's a perfect entity?
-
God created man in His "image" that is true.
Your god is absolute perfection, can't do anything wrong, then creates the devil and imperfect humans, how could he make such stupid mistakes when he's so perfect? Additionally, he's omnipotent, omniscient and can see the future, how could he create circumstances that he knew, because he can see the future, would turn out to be such clumsy blunders? But wait, as a perfect being, he can't make mistakes, except for the mistakes he created, I just can't accept those kind of contradictions.
What amazing incompetence, he creates all of humanity and then has to exterminate the human race with an enormous flood because he screwed up that project and has to try again, yet he's a perfect entity?
Some have suggestion that the contradictions you've emphasized negates the religious mythology because the contrary premise and resulting syllogisms are faulty. That is, if the xtian 'g-d' isn't "absolute perfection", can make mistakes and allegedly "created" imperfect humans in "his own image", (of imperfection), then "he's" an incompetent 'demig-d' and therefore not a "supreme deity".
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
Well that's all just a bit contradictory. God created these people in the most perfect way because, of course, he's the most perfect of all gods. Some of them remain perfect, like you, others, however, chose to become homosexual because god gave them free will. God calls this a sin, but, still, he loves them anyway because he's such a loving god.
You can't say god created people "in his image" and then blame people for imperfections, it's a logical contradiction. If there are any imperfect people, it's because your god created imperfection, and now blames his imperfect creations with "sin," but, as you say, he loves them anyway. Congratulations, pure nonsense.
God created man in His "image" that is true. However, we are not God, nor a spirit, and are strictly human, which includes emotions, health whether good or poor, and so much more. However, we are to do our best to live as well as we can - a lot of this directed towards others according to behavior, attitudes, actions, etc. He makes it clear what He thinks of certain ways of living and of certain behaviors and attitudes. He also says to love our neighbor, our parents, etc. Those who will spend eternity with God will NOT experience any of those negative things anymore (sadness, bad health, bad people, hurting, etc.)
Yeah, I get all that, but it still makes no sense, there's still a major contradiction there. Your god is absolute perfection, can't do anything wrong, then creates the devil and imperfect humans, how could he make such stupid mistakes when he's so perfect? Additionally, he's omnipotent, omniscient and can see the future, how could he create circumstances that he knew, because he can see the furture, would turn out to be such clumsy blunders? But wait, as a perfect being, he can't make mistakes, except for the mistakes he created, I just can't accept those kind of contradictions.
What amazing incompetence, he creates all of humanity and then has to exterminate the human race with an enormous flood because he screwed up that project and has to try again, yet he's a perfect entity?
I don't know why the concept of "Free Will" is so difficult for some.God allows his creations to make their own choices,good or bad.If they choose good-a reward.If they chose evil-punishment (I.E.The Flood).
-
I don't know why the concept of "Free Will" is so difficult for some.God allows his creations to make their own choices,good or bad.If they choose good-a reward.If they chose evil-punishment (I.E.The Flood).
So, your're suggesting such an alleged 'deity' employs the racketeering methods of mobsters?
-
I agree , god created all people..and that's that!
-
I agree , god created all people..and that's that!
I disagree; yours is a faith-based opinion and that's that.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave."
-- William Drummond
-
God loves gay people just as He loves all people. God did not make the people gay, they chose to be that way, for themselves. God still loves them as He does you and me, and anyone else. He just does not approve of homosexuality. This is based on what I believe, as a Christian, and may not be accepted by others, who may have their own voice in the matter.
Well that's all just a bit contradictory. God created these people in the most perfect way because, of course, he's the most perfect of all gods. Some of them remain perfect, like you, others, however, chose to become homosexual because god gave them free will. God calls this a sin, but, still, he loves them anyway because he's such a loving god.
You can't say god created people "in his image" and then blame people for imperfections, it's a logical contradiction. If there are any imperfect people, it's because your god created imperfection, and now blames his imperfect creations with "sin," but, as you say, he loves them anyway. Congratulations, pure nonsense.
God created man in His "image" that is true. However, we are not God, nor a spirit, and are strictly human, which includes emotions, health whether good or poor, and so much more. However, we are to do our best to live as well as we can - a lot of this directed towards others according to behavior, attitudes, actions, etc. He makes it clear what He thinks of certain ways of living and of certain behaviors and attitudes. He also says to love our neighbor, our parents, etc. Those who will spend eternity with God will NOT experience any of those negative things anymore (sadness, bad health, bad people, hurting, etc.)
Yeah, I get all that, but it still makes no sense, there's still a major contradiction there. Your god is absolute perfection, can't do anything wrong, then creates the devil and imperfect humans, how could he make such stupid mistakes when he's so perfect? Additionally, he's omnipotent, omniscient and can see the future, how could he create circumstances that he knew, because he can see the furture, would turn out to be such clumsy blunders? But wait, as a perfect being, he can't make mistakes, except for the mistakes he created, I just can't accept those kind of contradictions.
What amazing incompetence, he creates all of humanity and then has to exterminate the human race with an enormous flood because he screwed up that project and has to try again, yet he's a perfect entity?
I agree that there are many things that really do not make sense. Our human minds are not God's higher mind. This explains it much better than I can. I apologize for its length, but it explains things from different points, which each have to be explained in order to go to the next .
Question: "If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?"
Answer: This is a two-part question. The first part is “Did God know Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin?” The answer lies in what the Bible teaches about God’s knowledge. We know from Scripture that God is omniscient, which literally means “all-knowing.” Job 37:16; Psalm 139:2-4, 147:5; Proverbs 5:21; Isaiah 46:9-10; and 1 John 3:19-20 leave no doubt that God’s knowledge is infinite and that He knows everything that has happened in the past, is happening now, and will happen in the future.
Looking at some of the superlatives in these verses—“perfect in knowledge”; “his understanding has no limit”; “he knows everything”—it is clear that God’s knowledge is not merely greater than our own, but it is infinitely greater. He knows all things in totality. Isaiah 46:10 declares He not only knows everything, but He controls everything as well. How else could He “make known” to us what would happen in the future and state unequivocally that His plans will come to pass? So, did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin? Did He know Lucifer would rebel against Him and become Satan? Yes! Absolutely! Were they out of His control at any time? Absolutely not. If God’s knowledge is not perfect, then there is a deficiency in His nature. Any deficiency in God’s nature means He cannot be God, for God’s very essence requires the perfection of all His attributes. Therefore, the answer to the first question must, by necessity, be “yes.”
Moving on to the second part of the question, “Why did God create Satan and Adam and Eve knowing ahead of time they were going to sin?” This question is a little trickier because we are asking a “why” question to which the Bible does not usually provide comprehensive answers. Despite that, we should be able to come to a limited understanding if we examine some biblical passages. To begin, we have already seen that God is omniscient and nothing can happen outside of His knowledge. So, if God knew that Satan would rebel and fall from heaven and that Adam and Eve would sin, yet He created them anyway, it must mean that the fall of mankind was part of God’s sovereign plan from the beginning. No other answer makes sense given what we have been saying thus far.
Now we must be careful to note that Adam and Eve falling into sin does not mean that God is the author of sin, nor that he tempted Adam and Eve to sin (James 1:13). The fall serves the purpose of God’s overall plan for creation and mankind. This, again, must be the case, or else the fall of mankind would never have happened.
If we consider what some theologians call the "meta-narrative" (or overarching story line) of Scripture, we see that biblical history can be roughly divided into three main sections: 1) paradise (Genesis 1–2); 2) paradise lost (Genesis 3 – Revelation 20); and 3) paradise regained (Revelation 21–22). By far the largest part of the narrative is devoted to moving from paradise lost to paradise regained. At the center of this meta-narrative is the cross. The cross was planned from the very beginning (Acts 2:23). It was foreknown and foreordained that Christ would go to the cross and give His life as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28)—those chosen by God’s foreknowledge and predestined to be His people (Ephesians 1:4-5).
Reading Scripture very carefully and taking what has been said so far, we are led to the following conclusions:
1. The rebellion of Satan and the fall of mankind were foreknown and foreordained by God.
2. Those who would become the people of God, the elect, were foreknown and foreordained by God.
3. The crucifixion of Christ, as atonement for God’s people, was foreknown and foreordained by God.
So, we are left with the following questions: Why create mankind with the knowledge of the fall? Why create mankind knowing that only some would be "saved?" Why send Jesus knowingly to die for a people that knowingly fell into sin? From man’s perspective, it does not make sense. If the meta-narrative moves from paradise, to paradise lost, to paradise regained, why not just go straight to paradise regained and avoid the whole paradise lost interlude?
The only conclusion we can come to, in view of the above assertions, is that God’s purpose was to create a world in which His glory could be manifest in all its fullness. The glory of God is the overarching goal of creation. In fact, it is the overarching goal of everything He does. The universe was created to display God’s glory (Psalm 19:1), and the wrath of God is revealed against those who fail to glorify God (Romans 1:23). Our sin causes us to fall short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23), and in the new heaven and new earth, the glory of God is what will provide light (Revelation 21:23). The glory of God is manifest when His attributes are on perfect display, and the story of redemption is part of that.
The best place to see this in Scripture is Romans 9:19-24. Wrath and mercy display the riches of God’s glory, and you cannot get either without the fall of mankind. Therefore, all of these actions—fall, election, redemption, atonement—serve the purpose of glorifying God. When man fell into sin, God’s mercy was immediately displayed in not killing him on the spot. God’s patience and forbearance were also on display as mankind fell deeper into sin prior to the flood. God’s justice and wrath were on display as He executed judgment during the flood, and God’s mercy and grace were demonstrated as He saved Noah and his family. God’s wrath and justice will be revealed in the future when He deals with Satan once and for all (Revelation 20:7-10).
The ultimate exhibition of God’s glory was at the cross where His wrath, justice, and mercy met. The righteous judgment of all sin was executed at the cross, and God’s grace was on display in pouring His wrath for sin on His Son, Jesus, instead of on us. God’s love and grace are on display in those whom He has saved (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9). In the end, God will be glorified as His chosen people worship Him for all eternity with the angels, and the wicked will also glorify God as His justice and righteousness will finally be vindicated by the eternal punishment of all unrepentant sinners (Philippians 2:11). None of this could have come to pass without the rebellion of Satan and the fall of Adam and Eve.
The classic objection to this position is that God’s foreknowledge and foreordination of the fall damages man’s freedom. In other words, if God created mankind with full knowledge of the impending fall into sin, how can man be responsible for his sin? The best answer to this question can be found in the Westminster Confession of Faith chapter III:
“God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established” (WFC, III.1)
What this is saying is that God ordains future events in such a way that our freedom and the working of secondary causes (e.g., laws of nature) are preserved. Theologians call this “concurrence.” God’s sovereign will flows concurrently with our free choices in such a way that our free choices always result in the carrying out of God’s will (by “free choices” we mean that our choices are not coerced by outside influences).
To summarize, God knew that Satan would rebel and that Adam and Eve would sin in the Garden of Eden. With that knowledge, God still created Lucifer and Adam and Eve because creating them and ordaining the fall was part of His sovereign plan to manifest His glory in all its fullness. Even though the fall was foreknown and foreordained, our freedom in making choices is not violated because our free choices are the means by which God’s will is carried out.
http://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_sort=0&zoom_query=If+God+is+perfect%2C+why+did+He+create+imperfect+people%3F&search.x=55&search.y=19
-
People say God created ever. that mean he created the Devil and gay people. Yet people say god hates gay people. I don't get it. I think their is to many close minded people out there and God made gay people to open their minds a little. :female: :male: Never hurts to try.
So by what you wrote are you talking about happy people, or homosexuals? It is my belief that no matter what I think I am not the final judge, and God makes the last decision at judgement, So maybe if someone cares they will keep God in their mind first and think about what it says in the bible, If it was truly all about love then they would be your friend, if it is about sex then it is about your own personal pleasure, and throughout my reading in many religious books including but not limited to the bible that is where people get into trouble putting their own personal pleasure before Gods will. But if one pays attention to the bible it seems to me homosexuality in the end days was a punishment from God,
Ephesians 5:6-7
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
-
Ephesians 5:6-7
"Let no one deceive you with empty words, such [as] God's ... Therefore do not be partners with them."