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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: batmobile on June 30, 2013, 10:39:02 pm

Title: christianity
Post by: batmobile on June 30, 2013, 10:39:02 pm
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: weased on July 02, 2013, 01:37:07 pm
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)
wondering what you mean by twisted view!? I gave my heart to Christ only 6 years ago, and although I see a lot of end times prophecy coming into play nowadays, I believe it is most imparitive that us Christians should be spreading the word of Jesus` peace and care for one another, maybe some twisted views could be changed!
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: swkstudent on July 02, 2013, 04:53:37 pm
Well everyone is entitled to their own spiritual/religious beliefs.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on July 08, 2013, 01:10:25 am
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ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Every view of xtianity in the present is twisted. And that's a good thing. If you were to obey what the ancient texts originally said, you'd probably go to jail pretty quickly. Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

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its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us...

I'll reserve the right to judge due to the atrocities started and maintained by this religion.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: paints on July 08, 2013, 07:27:56 pm
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)

I think sometimes Christians have a twisted view of Christianity, of what it is supposed to be.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: weased on July 11, 2013, 07:55:48 am
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)

I think sometimes Christians have a twisted view of Christianity, of what it is supposed to be.
Being a Christian is following Jesus` teachings, the Old Testament is for us to learn the miracles of God and the struggles of the Jewish nation trying to adhere to God`s Law, it was impossible for them, born into sin, to be righteous and adhere to the Law, Jesus came to offer Grace to all nations through Him. I see a lot of comments from others that simply don`t understand the concept of Grace and it is sad, because all they have to do is ask the Lord for the understanding of the scripture, read and be fulfilled with knowledge
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on July 11, 2013, 10:46:23 pm
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)

I think sometimes Christians have a twisted view of Christianity, of what it is supposed to be.
Being a Christian is following Jesus` teachings, the Old Testament is for us to learn the miracles of God and the struggles of the Jewish nation trying to adhere to God`s Law, it was impossible for them, born into sin, to be righteous and adhere to the Law, Jesus came to offer Grace to all nations through Him. I see a lot of comments from others that simply don`t understand the concept of Grace and it is sad, because all they have to do is ask the Lord for the understanding of the scripture, read and be fulfilled with knowledge
or its possible others just need revival and repentance...bc of the uninviting nature that drives away nonbelievers...agnostics make me laugh tho... and after u go through the apologetics explaining logical fallacies some ppl still don't get it...lol...the buddhist still wants to know the meaning of life...hahaha...can i slap him?
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: vp44 on July 29, 2013, 01:28:48 am
If something is questioned and not considered perfect you wonder why any follows such a thing.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: BlackSheepNY on July 29, 2013, 09:09:49 am
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ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

Surely, you speak of islam here?  Not only this, but, rape, terrorism, the slow death of animals to appease their false God, their total disregard for human life (whether you "believe" or not), their "marriage" to BABIES, *bleep*, cannibalism, inbreeding.  You're entitled to "believe" what you want to believe but these people are just plain SICK.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: paints on July 29, 2013, 10:48:43 am
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ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

Surely, you speak of islam here?  Not only this, but, rape, terrorism, the slow death of animals to appease their false God, their total disregard for human life (whether you "believe" or not), their "marriage" to BABIES, *bleep*, cannibalism, inbreeding.  You're entitled to "believe" what you want to believe but these people are just plain SICK.


Have you read the Old Testament??
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: timvolley on July 29, 2013, 06:14:03 pm
I agree nobody is perfect
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on July 30, 2013, 12:14:26 am
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Surely, you speak of islam here?  Not only this, but, rape, terrorism, the slow death of animals to appease their false God, their total disregard for human life (whether you "believe" or not), their "marriage" to BABIES, *bleep*, cannibalism, inbreeding.  You're entitled to "believe" what you want to believe but these people are just plain SICK.

Read your bible. It has the majority of those things in it plus many other immoral acts. One can never have the moral high ground if they believe or preach any of the abrahamic faiths (judaism, christianity, or islam).
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: cwilliams66 on July 30, 2013, 02:42:04 am
I read a saying that said "Don't judge someone because they sin differently than you."
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: JediJohnnie on August 01, 2013, 11:53:12 pm
As usual I see a lot of broad brushing of the Bible.Context is key,people.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 02, 2013, 12:13:51 am
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As usual I see a lot of broad brushing of the Bible.Context is key,people

Oh I'm sure we can go into the numerous specifics you call "broad brushing" if you'd like, but I highly doubt you'll stick around long enough to hear the major moral problems. Just spout your ignorance and lies and scurry off before you manage to learn something.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: BMaston12 on August 02, 2013, 07:19:17 am
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity... its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us... not all of us are hypocrites we are all sinners. ::)
Yes, you get it. We are all sinners and there is no greater or less than in God's eyes. No one is perfect and we don't have the right to judge. However, sometimes it is hard to fight human nature and not be judgemental, because we don't understand others actions and reactions. If they are not like ours, everyone else must have a problem. My problem is with common sense. Some people would rather have on their blinders when the truth is staring them right in the face. They prefer the lie over the truth? We can only pray that God will enlighten them to the truth.
BMaston12
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: jmccaskill on August 02, 2013, 08:02:44 am
There is no greater misunderstanding of Biblical scripture/teaching than that of Christians judging; be it actions, other people or anything else. No where in the Bible does it say 'Thou shall not judge'. The fact is that the scriptures teach that God's people are to constantly judge the things about them, and especially themselves! The singular quotation of Jesus (paraphrased) 'judge not, yet ye be judged' is a specific instruction and warning, basically that means that one is to be careful HOW one judges, that is to what standards, as one will be held to the same standards one establishes for others. This is in no wise a prohibition for God's people to never judge or determine ethical, moral, or sinful actions or those that perpetrate same. Sadly, those that lack any meaningful standards in themselves love to scream that 'you can't judge me' and all that sort of thing. This is a complete deliberate lie to prevent others from calling evil into account.

One might care to examine what the Bible really says on this topic and not buy into this false teaching of the scripture. One of many places to begin might be 1 Corinthians 6:2-3.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: bonzie on August 02, 2013, 08:12:53 am
I agree,everyone has their own choice of life. As long as people are not hurting other people I`m happy with them, no matter what kind of belief their in.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: JediJohnnie on August 02, 2013, 05:18:52 pm
I can't quote Falconeer (since I have him on ignore,that's probably the reason),but suffice to say I've refuted enough of his nonsense in the past,that if he had an once of objectivity,he wouldn't keep making these ridiculous comments. ::)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 04, 2013, 02:12:14 am
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I can't quote Falconeer (since I have him on ignore,that's probably the reason),but suffice to say I've refuted enough of his nonsense in the past,that if he had an once of objectivity,he wouldn't keep making these ridiculous comments.

*sniff* I love this guy so much. Dishonesty, arrogance, and ignorance...he's like the poster child for why Christianity is fading from our society. Please, JJ! Do your duty to mankind and never stop posting!
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: weased on August 06, 2013, 05:24:02 am
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ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

Surely, you speak of islam here?  Not only this, but, rape, terrorism, the slow death of animals to appease their false God, their total disregard for human life (whether you "believe" or not), their "marriage" to BABIES, *bleep*, cannibalism, inbreeding.  You're entitled to "believe" what you want to believe but these people are just plain SICK.

Understanding what and when the Old Testament is is crucial. Only the nation of Isreal were going to Heaven to be with God. All others were out of this picture. Sadly, a lot of folks see this as a cruel God, just as those false gods that the other nations worshipped, that required the passing of children through fire. Slaves to the Irealites were actually blessed in that they were accepted to be of the chosen people of God, genocide of other nations was a command only to keep the bloodline purely of the twelve tribes so that no influence of idol worshipping would infiltrate the nation of Isreal. We can not know the wisdom and mind of God and to equate it with human minds is only going to block your understanding of how Grace is the ultimate gift.

Have you read the Old Testament??
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 07, 2013, 03:20:16 pm
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a lot of folks see this as a cruel God

Quote
genocide of other nations was a command only to keep the bloodline purely of the twelve tribes so that no influence of idol worshipping would infiltrate the nation of Isreal

You really don't see the contradiction here? The fact that this is easily comparable to any genocidal maniacal leader through history is proof enough that this god of yours is evil. I'm not sure how you can justify genocide for the preservation of bloodlines (murder is murder), but I'm eager to hear it.

Quote
We can not know the wisdom and mind of God and to equate it with human minds is only going to block your understanding of how Grace is the ultimate gift.

Blindly following an authority figure with the promise of an irrational goal has lead to the worst atrocities in mankind's history.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: walksalone11 on August 08, 2013, 05:29:23 pm
Did someone say.....GENOCIDE?
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 10, 2013, 08:00:39 pm
WALKSALONE!!! You're back! Where have you been, dude?
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: walksalone11 on August 13, 2013, 10:50:08 am
WALKSALONE!!! You're back! Where have you been, dude?
Hi Bro....ehhh Im never that far away....just been busy building on my house etc. need to get it to a point where I can put it on the market and start making my way back east to the homeland.

Looks like not much has changed here....

carry on.... LOL
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: weased on August 13, 2013, 11:15:07 am
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a lot of folks see this as a cruel God

Quote
genocide of other nations was a command only to keep the bloodline purely of the twelve tribes so that no influence of idol worshipping would infiltrate the nation of Isreal

You really don't see the contradiction here? The fact that this is easily comparable to any genocidal maniacal leader through history is proof enough that this god of yours is evil. I'm not sure how you can justify genocide for the preservation of bloodlines (murder is murder), but I'm eager to hear it.

Quote
We can not know the wisdom and mind of God and to equate it with human minds is only going to block your understanding of how Grace is the ultimate gift.

Blindly following an authority figure with the promise of an irrational goal has lead to the worst atrocities in mankind's history.
  We cannot understand the will and actions of God, that is what I was stating, that is where Faith comes in. Perhaps if ya`ll would just find a salvation teaching church and let`s vsay just go in order to cover all your bases, just in case all this about God is true. Then you can ask questions, learn, investigate if need be, then you`ll have a better understanding of what you`re commenting on. In the meantime I`ll be praying for you, that won`t interrupt any aspect of your lives negatively
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: claysherrod on August 13, 2013, 12:57:03 pm
Has anybody ever read the Nag Hammadi Library? These are gospels that were written that did not make the original Canon. I am currently a seminary student earning my degree in counseling ministry and have had the opportunities to read these. They give a different context at times, but I feel in my own spirit that they are relevant. Like the Gospel of Mary, that talked about the importance of women in the ministry, which is in exact opposite of the traditional way of thinking.

Also, the Gospel of Thomas is a great one for people like me trying to become a counselor. It has some very deep stuff in there. There is also a Gospel of Judas.

Many get a little spooked by this, but I feel in my soul that they are documents that can be trusted. Take a look at them sometime. :)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 13, 2013, 08:23:57 pm
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We cannot understand the will and actions of God, that is what I was stating, that is where Faith comes in.

There's good faith, and then there's irrational and bad faith. Putting blind trust in a maniacal, genocidal, and tyrannical sky god who's invisible is deplorable behavior. If "Just have faith!" is your answer to my simple questions, then you obviously cannot give realistic answers.

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Perhaps if ya`ll would just find a salvation teaching church and let`s vsay just go in order to cover all your bases, just in case all this about God is true.

And what if one of the other hundreds of thousands of religions through history was true and you have it wrong? It seems to cover all your bases, you'd need to study all of them with the same attachment you currently have to christianity. But I'm certain you know your religion is the correct one despite the numerous faults, right? Just like all of the other people who think they have the correct one that aren't of your belief system?

Quote
Many get a little spooked by this, but I feel in my soul that they are documents that can be trusted. Take a look at them sometime.

People with personal convictions about metaphysical claims should not lead others to believe the same without substantiating proof.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on August 13, 2013, 08:27:23 pm
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Hi Bro....ehhh Im never that far away....just been busy building on my house etc. need to get it to a point where I can put it on the market and start making my way back east to the homeland.

Oh! Yeah a lot of veteran-posters seemed to have disappeared around here lately. I hope all is well though!

Quote
Looks like not much has changed here....carry on.... LOL

Surprisingly the crazy-religious threads have been pretty sparse lately. Not that I'm complaining...
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 23, 2013, 09:53:12 am
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ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Every view of xtianity in the present is twisted. And that's a good thing. If you were to obey what the ancient texts originally said, you'd probably go to jail pretty quickly. Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

Quote
its ok to not be perfect... don't judge us...

I'll reserve the right to judge due to the atrocities started and maintained by this religion.
You are funny... agnostics are great!  Hey read apologetics logical falacies will give you a headache dude
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on September 23, 2013, 02:21:55 pm
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You are funny... agnostics are great!  Hey read apologetics logical falacies will give you a headache dude

Share a link!
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: jmccaskill on September 23, 2013, 02:36:49 pm
I'm not going to get deeply involved in this thread, it has all been said and done before, no one changes their views on trivial meanderings and opinions. However, I do wish to point out that no matter ones views on religion, it is very important to recognize the fact that Christianity is NOT a religion, not by any stretch of the definition of 'religion'.

Christianity stands alone, unique and without comparison to other 'faiths'. The differences are obvious and glaring, maybe so obvious that they are not noticed by most people. If one does not know the difference of 'religion' and Christianity, they need too.
 :D
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 24, 2013, 06:39:14 am
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You are funny... agnostics are great!  Hey read apologetics logical falacies will give you a headache dude

Share a link!
i'm not that computer savy but i can give u a book title i study other religions as well and know of other great books and stuff
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Cuppycake on September 24, 2013, 08:11:42 am
Any and all form religion is :bs: and should be stopped.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Cuppycake on September 24, 2013, 08:13:06 am
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a lot of folks see this as a cruel God

Quote
genocide of other nations was a command only to keep the bloodline purely of the twelve tribes so that no influence of idol worshipping would infiltrate the nation of Isreal

You really don't see the contradiction here? The fact that this is easily comparable to any genocidal maniacal leader through history is proof enough that this god of yours is evil. I'm not sure how you can justify genocide for the preservation of bloodlines (murder is murder), but I'm eager to hear it.

Quote
We can not know the wisdom and mind of God and to equate it with human minds is only going to block your understanding of how Grace is the ultimate gift.

Blindly following an authority figure with the promise of an irrational goal has lead to the worst atrocities in mankind's history.
  We cannot understand the will and actions of God, that is what I was stating, that is where Faith comes in. Perhaps if ya`ll would just find a salvation teaching church and let`s vsay just go in order to cover all your bases, just in case all this about God is true. Then you can ask questions, learn, investigate if need be, then you`ll have a better understanding of what you`re commenting on. In the meantime I`ll be praying for you, that won`t interrupt any aspect of your lives negatively

Mumble mumble nonsense bible babble  :bs:...
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 25, 2013, 10:34:20 am
Any and all form religion is :bs: and should be stopped.
why? i have alota friends now because i go to church
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on September 25, 2013, 11:41:35 am
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i'm not that computer savy but i can give u a book title i study other religions as well and know of other great books and stuff

Sure! I can't guarantee I'll read it (my job takes up a lot of my time), but if you give me the title I'll see if I can check it out.  :)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: lvstephanie on September 26, 2013, 09:59:43 am
As usual I see a lot of broad brushing of the Bible.Context is key,people.

Actually I see more broad brushing of "Christianity" itself. Not all Christian denominations are the same or believe the same things. Not all Christians believe the Bible verbatim, that you need to believe that Jesus is God to receive salvation, or even that religion and science need to be mutually exclusive.

For example, being a Catholic we believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. This means that the Bible should be used as a guide for God's intent with us, but is not necessarily completely accurate or that we need to follow it word for word. After all, humans put the pen to the paper, and humans are fallible. Moreover many of the stories (esp. in the Old Testament) were originally passed thru oral tradition so, just as in a game of telephone where the original message gets distorted by the end of the chain, many of these stories were bound to have changed and evolved as it was passed from generation to generation. And who's to say that some human somewhere along the way came up with the story themselves and eventually got incorporated into a book of the Bible (esp. if the only argument is the circular argument that God dictated the Bible so it must be true).

Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

I think both religion and science both try to discover the Truth. They attempt to answer all of those age-old questions: how the world formed, what our purpose in life is for, etc. And as logic and reasoning evolve, so to will these two disciplines evolve (albeit rather slowly sometimes).
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on September 26, 2013, 05:58:25 pm
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Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

That is an interesting way of putting it, though I must say that science has turned many people away from religious beliefs since it's obvious to see that things can occur naturally. This isn't necessarily saying people don't believe in a god/gods/metaphysical entities, but people are starting to see that beliefs in defined gods (such as the ones in greek, roman, or even the current popular ones) are bogus claims. Just because we understand the universe a lot more now isn't a reason to pin a defined deity onto the facts. Evidence is key, and there is none nor has there ever been any to support such claims.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: lvstephanie on September 27, 2013, 09:19:30 am
Quote
Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

That is an interesting way of putting it, though I must say that science has turned many people away from religious beliefs since it's obvious to see that things can occur naturally. This isn't necessarily saying people don't believe in a god/gods/metaphysical entities, but people are starting to see that beliefs in defined gods (such as the ones in greek, roman, or even the current popular ones) are bogus claims. Just because we understand the universe a lot more now isn't a reason to pin a defined deity onto the facts. Evidence is key, and there is none nor has there ever been any to support such claims.

There does come a point, however, that even science fails to show absolute proof... For example, although there is a lot of evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory, since no one was there to witness the event nor is it possible to recreate it (to its full extent), it will always remain a theory. I do agree that often we humans try to anthropomorize our gods and empower the relation between humans and our deities, and in doing so limit our understanding of how a god would fit into a non-geocentric universe. And it's those assumptions and limitations that causes the religious to start becoming defensive when science starts to show evidence to the contrary of those beliefs.

I should mention that I picked up these ideas after reading a book for a college ethical science course. I couldn't quite remember the name of the book nor the author, but I think I've found him now after Googling more about what I remember of his life history: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne). Rev. Dr. John Polkinghorne was actually a professor of theoretical physics at Cambridge that later became an Anglican priest.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 27, 2013, 11:30:35 am
Quote
ok... so our world today has a twisted view of christianity...

Slave ownership, commanded genocide, the stoning of children, etc.

Surely, you speak of islam here?  Not only this, but, rape, terrorism, the slow death of animals to appease their false God, their total disregard for human life (whether you "believe" or not), their "marriage" to BABIES, *bleep*, cannibalism, inbreeding.  You're entitled to "believe" what you want to believe but these people are just plain SICK.


Have you read the Old Testament??
i know right? some people are blinded by false perceptions
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 27, 2013, 11:32:19 am
Quote
Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

That is an interesting way of putting it, though I must say that science has turned many people away from religious beliefs since it's obvious to see that things can occur naturally. This isn't necessarily saying people don't believe in a god/gods/metaphysical entities, but people are starting to see that beliefs in defined gods (such as the ones in greek, roman, or even the current popular ones) are bogus claims. Just because we understand the universe a lot more now isn't a reason to pin a defined deity onto the facts. Evidence is key, and there is none nor has there ever been any to support such claims.

There does come a point, however, that even science fails to show absolute proof... For example, although there is a lot of evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory, since no one was there to witness the event nor is it possible to recreate it (to its full extent), it will always remain a theory. I do agree that often we humans try to anthropomorize our gods and empower the relation between humans and our deities, and in doing so limit our understanding of how a god would fit into a non-geocentric universe. And it's those assumptions and limitations that causes the religious to start becoming defensive when science starts to show evidence to the contrary of those beliefs.

I should mention that I picked up these ideas after reading a book for a college ethical science course. I couldn't quite remember the name of the book nor the author, but I think I've found him now after Googling more about what I remember of his life history: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne). Rev. Dr. John Polkinghorne was actually a professor of theoretical physics at Cambridge that later became an Anglican priest.
look at micro and marco evolution makes more sense than something out of nothing God started it...duh
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 27, 2013, 11:35:34 am
As usual I see a lot of broad brushing of the Bible.Context is key,people.

Actually I see more broad brushing of "Christianity" itself. Not all Christian denominations are the same or believe the same things. Not all Christians believe the Bible verbatim, that you need to believe that Jesus is God to receive salvation, or even that religion and science need to be mutually exclusive.

For example, being a Catholic we believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. This means that the Bible should be used as a guide for God's intent with us, but is not necessarily completely accurate or that we need to follow it word for word. After all, humans put the pen to the paper, and humans are fallible. Moreover many of the stories (esp. in the Old Testament) were originally passed thru oral tradition so, just as in a game of telephone where the original message gets distorted by the end of the chain, many of these stories were bound to have changed and evolved as it was passed from generation to generation. And who's to say that some human somewhere along the way came up with the story themselves and eventually got incorporated into a book of the Bible (esp. if the only argument is the circular argument that God dictated the Bible so it must be true).

Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

I think both religion and science both try to discover the Truth. They attempt to answer all of those age-old questions: how the world formed, what our purpose in life is for, etc. And as logic and reasoning evolve, so to will these two disciplines evolve (albeit rather slowly sometimes).
Rare for catholics to understand the bible tho... too many boring traditions and they forget the importance of salvation and pray to other saints a contradiction of ten commandments
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on September 27, 2013, 11:39:47 am
As usual I see a lot of broad brushing of the Bible.Context is key,people.

Actually I see more broad brushing of "Christianity" itself. Not all Christian denominations are the same or believe the same things. Not all Christians believe the Bible verbatim, that you need to believe that Jesus is God to receive salvation, or even that religion and science need to be mutually exclusive.

For example, being a Catholic we believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. This means that the Bible should be used as a guide for God's intent with us, but is not necessarily completely accurate or that we need to follow it word for word. After all, humans put the pen to the paper, and humans are fallible. Moreover many of the stories (esp. in the Old Testament) were originally passed thru oral tradition so, just as in a game of telephone where the original message gets distorted by the end of the chain, many of these stories were bound to have changed and evolved as it was passed from generation to generation. And who's to say that some human somewhere along the way came up with the story themselves and eventually got incorporated into a book of the Bible (esp. if the only argument is the circular argument that God dictated the Bible so it must be true).

Thus ideas like evolution, the big bang theory, etc. are perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe in. The main idea behind the Book of Genesis is how the world was formed and what role humans play in this world. It is trying to describe why we exist. Those scientific theories describe how, but not the why. For example, science tells us that the speed of light is a constant, but not why it is so nor why the speed of light has the value that it actually has. Perhaps when God was designing the universe (even before the big bang) God set the speed of light knowing that that particular speed was necessary for the big bang to expand fast enough for galaxies to cool down enough to have planets to support life yet still not so fast that the gravitational pull of the objects in space could form galaxies and star systems to begin with. If anything, I think that many of the theories of science have strengthened some people's appreciation for God's creation. It is much more impressive to believe that God's omniscience allowed for the big bang and evolution to create humans rather than some "sky being" saying a magic word and POOF! humans come into existence.

I think both religion and science both try to discover the Truth. They attempt to answer all of those age-old questions: how the world formed, what our purpose in life is for, etc. And as logic and reasoning evolve, so to will these two disciplines evolve (albeit rather slowly sometimes).
Rare for catholics to understand the bible tho... too many boring traditions and they forget the importance of salvation and pray to other saints a contradiction of ten commandments
Buddism is interesting too...things may be connected but all the universe and forget God and reincarnation...i don't think so...and the torah is just an incomplete Holy bible for the jewish kinda cute... you are half way there buddy
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Falconer02 on September 28, 2013, 10:38:42 am
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There does come a point, however, that even science fails to show absolute proof... For example, although there is a lot of evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory, since no one was there to witness the event nor is it possible to recreate it (to its full extent), it will always remain a theory.

Actually there is enough evidence that the BB did happen via background microwave radiation expanding from a center point. Just because humans didn't exist when it happened does not necessarily mean we can't know it to be fact. We don't know precisely how it happened (as in we don't know what every little particle did), but we do know it happened due to the evidences that are readily available. The same could be said for dinosaur extinction, climate change, etc. etc. There is a difference from a theory and a scientific/practiced theory.

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I do agree that often we humans try to anthropomorize our gods and empower the relation between humans and our deities, and in doing so limit our understanding of how a god would fit into a non-geocentric universe. And it's those assumptions and limitations that causes the religious to start becoming defensive when science starts to show evidence to the contrary of those beliefs.

Correct! When evidences show the contrary to what a religion says, their foundation can easily crumble unless they do their age-old art of reinterpreting their holy texts and attempt to make sense of the glaring flaws. This is a major reason why I scratch my head on why there are still so many creationist-like people out there.

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I should mention that I picked up these ideas after reading a book for a college ethical science course. I couldn't quite remember the name of the book nor the author, but I think I've found him now after Googling more about what I remember of his life history: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne. Rev. Dr. John Polkinghorne was actually a professor of theoretical physics at Cambridge that later became an Anglican priest.

Looks interesting! Yeah I don't want to come off as some nihilist-atheist type of person. I classify myself as an agnostic-atheist or a "Sure there could be a god or gods out there, but w/o basic proofs, you cannot state anything as truth" type of person. What type of position do you hold? You're catholic yet you speak like an agnostic-theist. I'm just curious to know. 8)

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look at micro and marco evolution makes more sense than something out of nothing God started it...duh

(http://thewordofme.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/evolution-is-not-real.jpg)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: jcribb16 on September 30, 2013, 04:04:26 pm
Any and all form religion is :bs: and should be stopped.

I disagree it should be stopped.  Everyone makes their own personal choices to be involved in "religion" or not have anything to do with "religion."  You don't have to take part in "religion" but your choice shouldn't affect one who chooses "religion."  And it should be considered vice-versa, as well.  My choice of choosing God in my life should not affect your choice of choosing no "religion."  :)
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: maxinmotion on September 30, 2013, 08:18:59 pm
I believe that we all should have a belief in a higher being. No one should be judged by what they say are do.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: Kirenisa on September 30, 2013, 11:23:22 pm
My moms very religious and honestly because she pushed it on me so much I searched for my own belief system.  :dontknow:
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: sarabtrayior on October 01, 2013, 10:17:08 am
I just read "I read a saying that said "Don't judge someone because they sin differently than you."
 and that's it... everybody sins... we just sin differently than others...
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: lvstephanie on October 01, 2013, 10:37:24 am
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There does come a point, however, that even science fails to show absolute proof... For example, although there is a lot of evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory, since no one was there to witness the event nor is it possible to recreate it (to its full extent), it will always remain a theory.

Actually there is enough evidence that the BB did happen via background microwave radiation expanding from a center point. Just because humans didn't exist when it happened does not necessarily mean we can't know it to be fact. We don't know precisely how it happened (as in we don't know what every little particle did), but we do know it happened due to the evidences that are readily available. The same could be said for dinosaur extinction, climate change, etc. etc. There is a difference from a theory and a scientific/practiced theory.

That was actually what I was talking about, scientific theory... Like I said, although there is a lot of evidence that supports the theory (like the background radiation that you mentioned), because there is no way to reproduce it, it will always remain a theory, not a scientific law of nature.

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I should mention that I picked up these ideas after reading a book for a college ethical science course. I couldn't quite remember the name of the book nor the author, but I think I've found him now after Googling more about what I remember of his life history: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne. Rev. Dr. John Polkinghorne was actually a professor of theoretical physics at Cambridge that later became an Anglican priest.

Looks interesting! Yeah I don't want to come off as some nihilist-atheist type of person. I classify myself as an agnostic-atheist or a "Sure there could be a god or gods out there, but w/o basic proofs, you cannot state anything as truth" type of person. What type of position do you hold? You're catholic yet you speak like an agnostic-theist. I'm just curious to know. 8)

I am a Catholic although there are a few things that I do disagree with the church about (eg women not allowed in the priesthood, priests not being allowed to marry, homosexuality as a sin, etc.). However I also am a scientist by education and so I've really looked into this issue of the relationship between religion and science (hence why I took that course to begin with). Also being involved in the sciences, many of my friends are more along the lines of your beliefs if not completely atheist. And in talking with them about my faith, I've found that many have misconceived notions about Catholicism esp. when considering what other Christians believe (again why I said that "Christians" are often painted with a broad brush) as well as the church's history including its response to other scientists in history.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: bonzie on October 01, 2013, 02:16:23 pm
Sometimes religion confuses me, But I do pray to God every morning and night. I do believe there is God.
Title: Re: christianity
Post by: batmobile on October 02, 2013, 10:14:40 am
Sometimes religion confuses me, But I do pray to God every morning and night. I do believe there is God.
thats a start now dig deeper salvation is important boo.