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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: linderlizzie on February 14, 2016, 11:20:02 am
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Should women have to sign up for the draft or be exempt?
Are you undecided :-\ or firm? :dontknow:
I am against it myself but would enjoy hearing other people's point of view.
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Con (against) Luckily there is no draft right now but my feelings are men should only have to serve in the army and women should serve as they did perhaps during WW2 in factories to help the war effort or as doctors and nurses. I'm not saying this as a slight to women, war is hell and they at least should be spared from that horror. However, in this modern age of computers and technology, why are people still serving in armies at all? If someone is going to tell me that a robot with built in gps and a weapons system can't be built to kill our enemies and preserve American or our allies lives, I wouldn't believe it! I'm not talking about some awesome sci-fi jaw dropping machine. Heck, even a washing machine with tank treads and the gps etc. would get the job done. Why hasn't it come to fruition? good question. I suspect the heartless a-holes in government have a lot to do with why men and women are still dying in wars and technology is only used to basically pacify the public.
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There is a difference between signing up for selective service and being drafted. Registering with the selective service just means that they have a list of age appropriate people to fit center needs.
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I am currently in the military myself, but I am dead set against drafting anyone. That is the equivalent of 'OK, you are potentially going to die. Sign your name on the dotted line, or go to jail for insubordination.' Thank God the government elected to discontinue the practice.
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The draft was ended to counter the growing anti-war movement. Nixon figured that if the middle class youth knew they wouldn't be drafted to fight and die for nothing in Viet Nam, they would stop protesting the war.
No one should be drafted, male or female.
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I think the physical strain of combat would endanger women so I think they should not be drafted.
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The draft was ended to counter the growing anti-war movement. Nixon figured that if the middle class youth knew they wouldn't be drafted to fight and die for nothing in Viet Nam, they would stop protesting the war.
No one should be drafted, male or female.
Paints,i went for my army physical in 1970 and passed with flying colors.At the time Nixon had implemented a birthday lottery.If your birthday was chosen early there was a greater chance you were getting drafted.My birthday fell right in the middle.I never got drafted.I was fortunate.I had older friends that joined the marine reserves in mid 60s to avoid them getting drafted.The stories i have heard what many went thru in Camp La June with the DIs beating the stuffing out of them.....mind boggling!!!
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The draft was ended to counter the growing anti-war movement. Nixon figured that if the middle class youth knew they wouldn't be drafted to fight and die for nothing in Viet Nam, they would stop protesting the war.
No one should be drafted, male or female.
Paints,i went for my army physical in 1970 and passed with flying colors.At the time Nixon had implemented a birthday lottery.If your birthday was chosen early there was a greater chance you were getting drafted.My birthday fell right in the middle.I never got drafted.I was fortunate.I had older friends that joined the marine reserves in mid 60s to avoid them getting drafted.The stories i have heard what many went thru in Camp La June with the DIs beating the stuffing out of them.....mind boggling!!!
“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
― Henry Kissinger
And that's why you get soldiers beating up on other soldiers.
They don't understand that they are cannon fodder for evil men.
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I think that to be equal as men, then they should be Drafted, there must be no lowering of the standards...
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It doesn't matter because there will never be another draft again anyway. By the time that's needed, it'll be 90% machines and drones doing the fighting not soldiers.
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There is a difference between signing up for selective service and being drafted. Registering with the selective service just means that they have a list of age appropriate people to fit center needs.
That didn't answer my question. Would you want your daughter (if you have one) to sign up for "selective service" knowing that they could be called to serve in a war at a moment's notice?
Your response sounds like one of our progressive politicians responses. No offense, but I think that response obfuscates the real outcome of being forced to sign up for "the draft." :peace:
Notice how I love big words!
:fish:
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Nobody should be drafted.
As a US citizen, both the draft/selective service registry and the military as we know it should be abolished.
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It doesn't matter because there will never be another draft again anyway. By the time that's needed, it'll be 90% machines and drones doing the fighting not soldiers.
And by the time that happens, we will have lost all humanity.
War should never be easy.
It should be so ugly and so costly that people would avoid it, even if that means using diplomacy.
Might doesn't make right, ever.
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Well, considering the draft was eliminated since the days of the Vietnam War, I would have to respond with a resounding 'NO'. I do not even approve of females being accepted into combat roles. But that is an opinion for another debate.
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March 21, 2016
Hello to everyone out there in Fusion Cash World:
No, I would not want to have my daughter drafted into the army or military because as one member pointed out that would be like saying, "OK sign up to die!"
And, furthermore, God never intended men to go out and to fight against each other!
Jesus's own words that he spoke while he was on this earth were, " I have come and that you might have life and life more abundantly!"
And, although wars do happen because of men's sin nature, it is not God's will that men kill each other!
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No women should not be drafted at all!
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The draft was ended to counter the growing anti-war movement. Nixon figured that if the middle class youth knew they wouldn't be drafted to fight and die for nothing in Viet Nam, they would stop protesting the war.
No one should be drafted, male or female.
Paints, to correct your misinformation, our boys did NOT fight and die "for nothing" in Vietnam. They fought and died for the noble cause of preventing a communist takeover of South Vietnam. Not only that, but they WON on the battlefield, the war being lost by Congressional Democrats who refused to provide enough military aid and air support to South Vietnam after the US withdrawal. The claim that our boys "fought and died for nothing" was (and remains) the Big Lie of the Leftist fifth column that wanted not peace but a communist victory in Vietnam. As for the original question, I don't support a draft but if we had one I don't believe women should be drafted. Although there have been great women warriors in history, imo fighting and commanding wars is a job best left to men.
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The draft was ended to counter the growing anti-war movement. Nixon figured that if the middle class youth knew they wouldn't be drafted to fight and die for nothing in Viet Nam, they would stop protesting the war.
No one should be drafted, male or female.
Paints, to correct your misinformation, our boys did NOT fight and die "for nothing" in Vietnam. They fought and died for the noble cause of preventing a communist takeover of South Vietnam. Not only that, but they WON on the battlefield, the war being lost by Congressional Democrats who refused to provide enough military aid and air support to South Vietnam after the US withdrawal. The claim that our boys "fought and died for nothing" was (and remains) the Big Lie of the Leftist fifth column that wanted not peace but a communist victory in Vietnam. As for the original question, I don't support a draft but if we had one I don't believe women should be drafted. Although there have been great women warriors in history, imo fighting and commanding wars is a job best left to men.
DwanaMR, to correct your misinformation, there was NO noble cause to fight for in Viet Nam. Viet Nam was occupied by the French, and they wanted to get out from under French rule. If anything, our boys died for empire.
War is a racket. Nobody wins but the undertaker, and the arms merchants.
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:) ;) ;D :wave: :peace: :female: :heart: :peace:i hope a girl wins
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Paints, do you know any history at all? Vietnam had been independent from France for 11 years by the time the first US combat forces came in in 1965. The Vietnamese were NOT fighting French rule during the time we were fighting there. So your insinuation that our boys were fighting for "empire" is not only wrong but monumentally insulting, especially to those who gave their lives to keep a country from falling under communist tyranny. And that WAS a noble cause. One more thing. If you're really anti-war, how many times have you railed against wars fought by communists, or are your pacifist tendencies aroused only by wars fought by America?
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Paints, do you know any history at all? Vietnam had been independent from France for 11 years by the time the first US combat forces came in in 1965. The Vietnamese were NOT fighting French rule during the time we were fighting there. So your insinuation that our boys were fighting for "empire" is not only wrong but monumentally insulting, especially to those who gave their lives to keep a country from falling under communist tyranny. And that WAS a noble cause. One more thing. If you're really anti-war, how many times have you railed against wars fought by communists, or are your pacifist tendencies aroused only by wars fought by America?
Real history, or the government line?
Yes, France had left, but our "advisors" (CIA) had been there since the 50s, and they stayed.
It's not insulting to tell the truth. There was nothing noble in our being in Viet Nam, and no matter how you sugarcoat it, you won't make it right.
I had two brothers that served in Viet Nam. Both of them will tell you it was a farce.
War is a failed policy. For any "ism," communist or capitalist. If you have to use force to get someone to follow your ideology, there is something seriously flawed with your ideology.
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I am sorry.Many call themselves Xtian but support war rather than Jesus words to Peter to put his sword back in its place...those that use it will die from it.
I passed my army physical with flying colors.Nixons birthday lottery probably kept me out in 1970.I am so glad i never had to deal with it.And i am soooooo sorry that many lost their lives for it,were injured or just came back messed up in the head from it.
The waste that goes down the toilet smelled better than that war or for that matter ANY war!
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"Real history, or the government line?" Let me guess, Paints. You consider "real history" to be anything that doesn't come from a US source. Got it. Your problem is you thought I didn't know anything about Vietnam. You CLEARLY insinuated that the French were still in Vietnam at the time we were and that we were fighting for "empire". When I called you on that misinformation you backtracked while trying to appear like you weren't backtracking. You admitted that the French were, in fact, out of Vietnam when our combat troops arrived, but then switched to our advisors who were in 'Nam in the '50's, and they were-GASP!!!!!!-CIA. So that proves we were the baddies. Yeah, that's it! Sorry, Paints, I know your type. You're a pacifist only when it means trashing America. You're anti-American, not anti-war. And that's no government line.
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Hitch, I understand where you're coming from. Very few people, Christians included, are true pacifists; but I also believe very few people "support" war, by which I mean relish the idea and the act of conflict. The problem is that we live in a fallen world, and because of sin our choices are often not between good and bad but between bad and worse. Stopping Hitler early on was frightening, so Europe chose appeasement and the result was a war that cost 50,000,000 lives. Trying to prevent the bad, they paved the way for the worst. How, then, do we avoid war without allowing evil to run rampant? I don't know, but the people who DON'T have the answers are those self-righteous anti-war activists, especially the ones who demand that only one side of a conflict lay down their arms.
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"Real history, or the government line?" Let me guess, Paints. You consider "real history" to be anything that doesn't come from a US source. Got it. Your problem is you thought I didn't know anything about Vietnam. You CLEARLY insinuated that the French were still in Vietnam at the time we were and that we were fighting for "empire". When I called you on that misinformation you backtracked while trying to appear like you weren't backtracking. You admitted that the French were, in fact, out of Vietnam when our combat troops arrived, but then switched to our advisors who were in 'Nam in the '50's, and they were-GASP!!!!!!-CIA. So that proves we were the baddies. Yeah, that's it! Sorry, Paints, I know your type. You're a pacifist only when it means trashing America. You're anti-American, not anti-war. And that's no government line.
Don't be ignorant. I haven't backtracked on anything. I clarified, since you didn't understand my meaning, or pretended not to.
I am anti-war, period.
It's not "trashing America" to see the flaws and tell the truth.
If so, I'm in good company.
"I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, *bleep*, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own.... And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the "haves" refuse to share with the "have-nots" by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans." ~ General David Sharp, former US Marine Commandant,1966
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Hitch, I understand where you're coming from. Very few people, Christians included, are true pacifists; but I also believe very few people "support" war, by which I mean relish the idea and the act of conflict. The problem is that we live in a fallen world, and because of sin our choices are often not between good and bad but between bad and worse. Stopping Hitler early on was frightening, so Europe chose appeasement and the result was a war that cost 50,000,000 lives. Trying to prevent the bad, they paved the way for the worst. How, then, do we avoid war without allowing evil to run rampant? I don't know, but the people who DON'T have the answers are those self-righteous anti-war activists, especially the ones who demand that only one side of a conflict lay down their arms.
Dwana....many people have lost their lives before bowing down to Hitler etc.The proof is overwelming and there are examples with Jesus being the best one in the bible too.
If i was attacked walking on the street or my family was of course id do my best to defend us and if it had to be violent i guess id have no choice.We can remain neutral in conflicts in this world over nonsense issues.You can still love God and your neighbor,pay your taxes and be a law abiding person too.
Its a problem man cannot ever cure.Why do you think God has allowed man to govern himself for 6000 yrs?To prove HE CANT!!And it certainly has been shown he cant.In his time God will end this satanic,independent manmade nonsense that goes on in this world.If God has been patient with all that mankind has served up,shouldnt we let HIM cure it and have faith HE will in his time??And HE has outlined it and told us ahead of time HE intends to.
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Math 10:39
New International Version
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
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"Don't be ignorant." Really, paints, is that the best you can do? It's not ignorance to call out someone who's been dabbling in a bit of sophistry. And don't think you can absolved yourself of anti-Americanism by quoting a Marine general. I haven't sourced the quote, but if Gen. Sharp's rant was a one off it's useless in providing cover for you. If it was part of a pattern of nonstop condemnation of America as you're wont to do, then all it proves is that there are traitors in uniform. If I spoke about Islam the way you speak about America I suspect you'd call me an Islamophobe, and you wouldn't be moved by claims I was just seeing the flaws and telling the truth. Well, paints, I'm applying that standard to you. Incessant denunciation is a sign of animosity. You can indulge in it if you want, but don't act surprised when you're "misunderstood".
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Hitch, again, I hear ya. Let me reiterate, we're living in a fallen world. I know that, and I believe that God will intervene to judge this world in His own time. However, unlike you I DON'T believe that means we, as individuals or nations, are to stand by and do nothing while evil runs amok. If that were the case, why did God command us to protect the widow and the orphan, defend the needy, and stand up for those being unjustly killed? Why did He give us examples like the Hebrew midwives, Shifrah and Puah, who defied Pharaoh's order to kill the newborn Hebrew boys? Or the prophet Nathan, who called out King David to his face for his sin/crime of adultery and murder? No, not all resistance to evil need be violent, but sometimes it will be. And in a FALLEN, as opposed to perfect, world, there's just no avoiding that.
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Dwana...i think its justified when Gods gives the order.Remember HE said,vengeance is mine.His anger is based on righteous and justice.
Jesus didnt justify Peter pulling his sword out.Im sure you know what he told him.
I understand where you are coming from.Its tuff to sit back and get <bleeped>on!!We wanna kill someone just in road rage!!!LOL!
Human imperfection will always play a role too.Again the example i gave in defending me or family in an unjust time.Or maybe its wise if we are being robbed to just hand over the money rather than die!!I am doing my best to look at this all sides and just speaking of it now.....who knows how we react in the heat of battle??
Also Dwana....in the case of King David God punished him for that terrible sin.But he also saw in his heart he was sorry for it.Jehovah sees the heart condition of us all what we are really made of.In the case of Judas Jesus said it would of been better for him if he wasnt born.A clear sign what he was inside and no hope ever of a resurrection.
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Dwana...i think its justified when Gods gives the order.Remember HE said,vengeance is mine.His anger is based on righteous and justice.
Jesus didnt justify Peter pulling his sword out.Im sure you know what he told him.
I understand where you are coming from.Its tuff to sit back and get <bleeped>on!!We wanna kill someone just in road rage!!!LOL!
Human imperfection will always play a role too.Again the example i gave in defending me or family in an unjust time.Or maybe its wise if we are being robbed to just hand over the money rather than die!!I am doing my best to look at this all sides and just speaking of it now.....who knows how we react in the heat of battle??
Also Dwana....in the case of King David God punished him for that terrible sin.But he also saw in his heart he was sorry for it.Jehovah sees the heart condition of us all what we are really made of.In the case of Judas Jesus said it would of been better for him if he wasnt born.A clear sign what he was inside and no hope ever of a resurrection.
Hitch, I know how God handled David's sin; that wasn't my point. My point was that the prophet Nathan called David out for his sin. He didn't passively ignore it on the grounds that God would eventually deal with it. Scripture tells us the Hebrew midwives actively defied Pharaoh because they "feared God", and God rewarded them for it. Yes, God has the ultimate solution to evil but until that solution is implemented we have an obligation to "obey God rather than man", even if it means defying evil, just like David, Shifrah, and Puah.
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I agree with that Dwana about obeying Gods laws when they conflict with mans.Of course we are sinful creatures and err and we need Jesus sacrifice.Again God sees the heart and the motive behind a willful sin or 1 from imperfection and if we truly repent.
We all have lip service.Faith without works is dead.We stumble.I can do more than i should with heeding the bible.But i also dont wanna apologize for having knowledge of it either and being grateful to have discerned it.
There are ways of dealing with this world better when we understand Gods word.While others get wrapped up in this coming presidential election i look at it like wrestling.Entertainment!!Its sad when many think that someone is gonna fix the problems in this world.Its just a matter of time before another mass shooting takes place.And then same ol same ol.We need better gun laws etc.<sigh>
When God told ADAM CURSED is the ground on your account...he wasnt kidding....
Thanx
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don't think anyone should be drafted - think - should be a choice :rose:
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"Don't be ignorant." Really, paints, is that the best you can do? It's not ignorance to call out someone who's been dabbling in a bit of sophistry. And don't think you can absolved yourself of anti-Americanism by quoting a Marine general. I haven't sourced the quote, but if Gen. Sharp's rant was a one off it's useless in providing cover for you. If it was part of a pattern of nonstop condemnation of America as you're wont to do, then all it proves is that there are traitors in uniform. If I spoke about Islam the way you speak about America I suspect you'd call me an Islamophobe, and you wouldn't be moved by claims I was just seeing the flaws and telling the truth. Well, paints, I'm applying that standard to you. Incessant denunciation is a sign of animosity. You can indulge in it if you want, but don't act surprised when you're "misunderstood".
So you're one of those, "My country, right or wrong, love it or leave it" people.
That's all right, there are a lot of you out there. If there weren't, America would run out of cannon fodder.
Sophistry is when you can excuse killing people all over the world, setting up dictators, running drugs and guns through a country, funding and arming terrorists, destabilizing a countrys' economy, torturing innocents, and still pretend to hold the moral high ground.
Please.
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Like most leftists, paints, you major in deliberately not understanding anything that contradicts your opinion. My country right or wrong? Please. I never said that and you know it. I believe in freedom of speech and the right to criticize the government. What I criticized in my post was INCESSANT denunciation of America, like you trade in. In case you don't know, "incessant" means, "continuing without pause or interruption", nonstop, never-ending, unceasing. Such behavior is a sure sign of animosity. To use the Islam example again, if I talked about Islam the way you talk about America you'd call me all kinds of HATER, and you know it. If every word you say about something is condemnatory, it is supremely logical to conclude that you hate that something. My charge that you're anti-American is a logical conclusion based on your vitriolic rhetoric. My country right or wrong? No, I don't believe that, but I will confess that I don't understand why people like you insist on living in a country you so deeply despise.
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Like most leftists, paints, you major in deliberately not understanding anything that contradicts your opinion. My country right or wrong? Please. I never said that and you know it. I believe in freedom of speech and the right to criticize the government. What I criticized in my post was INCESSANT denunciation of America, like you trade in. In case you don't know, "incessant" means, "continuing without pause or interruption", nonstop, never-ending, unceasing. Such behavior is a sure sign of animosity. To use the Islam example again, if I talked about Islam the way you talk about America you'd call me all kinds of HATER, and you know it. If every word you say about something is condemnatory, it is supremely logical to conclude that you hate that something. My charge that you're anti-American is a logical conclusion based on your vitriolic rhetoric. My country right or wrong? No, I don't believe that, but I will confess that I don't understand why people like you insist on living in a country you so deeply despise.
You make assumptions based on your own bias.
I don't hate this country.
I hate what's been done to her by war-mongering fools. For profit. For oil. For land. For the poppy fields in Afghanistan.
And I hate the hypocrisy.
And the sheer utter waste of it all.
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To paints,
"You make assumptions based on your own bias." No, I drew conclusions based on your rhetoric.
"I don't hate this country." Yes, you do.
"I hate what's been done to her by war-mongering fools." Then why don't you condemn just the war-mongering fools instead of the whole country?
"For profit." You're against profit? So I guess you work for nothing. Got it.
"For oil." Really? You're still peddling that canard? In 2001 we imported 795,000 barrels of oil from Iraq. That's right; less than a million. And the number has only decreased since then. Saudi Arabia was and is our biggest Mid East oil supplier. The Middle East, however, was/is NOT our biggest source of foreign oil; that would be the Western Hemisphere, with Canada being our largest supplier. But the biggest source of oil for the US is...THE US! We now produce 60% of the oil we use. There was no need to go to war for oil in 2003 and there's no need to do so now. But I know you're not going to drop a narrative that justifies hating America.
"For land." We went to war for land? Hmmmm, never heard that one. Guess you need something when the "war for oil" line gets unsustainable.
"For the poppy fields for Afghanistan." This is another new one for me. But considering that drugs can be grown/produced anywhere by anyone with the will to do it, I don't see what possible sense it could make to go to war for poppy fields in Afghanistan.
"And I hate the hypocrisy." Most people hate hypocrisy, but leftists hate it only when it doesn't serve their agenda.
"And the sheer, utter waste of it all." The only wars you regard as sheer, utter wastes are those fought by America.
Back to you.
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DwanaMR:
"I don't hate this country." Yes, you do.
Repeating the same untruth doesn't make it so.
"I hate what's been done to her by war-mongering fools." Then why don't you condemn just the war-mongering fools instead of the whole country?
What makes you think I don't?
"For profit." You're against profit? So I guess you work for nothing. Got it.
You speak nonsense. I don't take my profit from the blood of innocents.
"For oil." Really? You're still peddling that canard? In 2001 we imported 795,000 barrels of oil from Iraq. That's right; less than a million. And the number has only decreased since then. Saudi Arabia was and is our biggest Mid East oil supplier. The Middle East, however, was/is NOT our biggest source of foreign oil; that would be the Western Hemisphere, with Canada being our largest supplier. But the biggest source of oil for the US is...THE US! We now produce 60% of the oil we use. There was no need to go to war for oil in 2003 and there's no need to do so now. But I know you're not going to drop a narrative that justifies hating America.
"For land." We went to war for land? Hmmmm, never heard that one. Guess you need something when the "war for oil" line gets unsustainable.
"For the poppy fields for Afghanistan." This is another new one for me. But considering that drugs can be grown/produced anywhere by anyone with the will to do it, I don't see what possible sense it could make to go to war for poppy fields in Afghanistan.
Easily verifiable, with a simple google search. If you care enough to look.
"And I hate the hypocrisy." Most people hate hypocrisy, but leftists hate it only when it doesn't serve their agenda.
And rightwingers only hate it when it serves their purpose. Mostly, they just revel in it, like pigs in a mud puddle.
"And the sheer, utter waste of it all." The only wars you regard as sheer, utter wastes are those fought by America.
Not so. All wars are a waste of humanity.
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Paints,i dont care for politicians for obvious reasons.But if Eisenhower meant what he said....BRAVO!
Of course there is no way i can judge that.But i trust God will and be fair!
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Hitch, I think he meant it. I also think he didn't let it bother him too much. When you start looking into his actions, they don't match the words.
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paints, paints, paints! I doubt I'll ever get through to you but I'll keep trying!
How do I know you condemn America the country and not just the "war-mongering fools"? Because I'm literate and can read your rhetoric.
"Repeating the same untruth doesn't make it so." Right. And saying you hate America isn't an untruth, no matter how much you deny it.
"You speak nonsense. I don't take my profit from the blood of innocents." Oh, please! Can you get any more sanctimonious? You don't "profit from the blood of the innocents"? So I can assume you make sure every inch of clothing you buy, every appliance you own, and every ounce of food you purchase wasn't made in a Third World sweatshop or picked by underpaid field hands. If not, get off your high horse. Your morality is distinctly unimpressive.
"And rightwingers only hate [hypocrisy] when it serves their purpose." Really? Why would right-wingers, or anyone else, hate hypocrisy--or anything else--when it's working FOR them? And you accuse me of speaking nonsense!
"Easily verifiable, with a simple google search. If you care enough to look." Unfortunately for you, paints, I did look, at least about the oil and the poppy fields; that's where I got the info I wrote in my reply to you, info you didn't refute. Oh, and on the poppy fields, one of the articles that came up was a piece in the white nationalist American Free Press newspaper. Just a bit of interesting trivia. ;)
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You may be literate, but you obviously can't read.
Or maybe comprehension is a problem for you.
In the age of the internet, ignorance is a choice.
Everything that I have posted here is verifiable, from multiple sources.
As another bit of "interesting trivia," the CIA is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs coming into this country. Heroin and opium, both made from poppies...which our military stood guard over...in Afghanistan.
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Dwana,if i may.Are you familiar with Al Pacino in Scarface?If you are the part where he goes back to his mamas house when he is rich.His mama wants no part of the money because of the way he earned it.
Im pretty sure Paints meant profiting that way.You went a little far comparing an appliance or piece of clothing to an underpaid worker.I worked for a collection agency in 1995 and did the job very well cos of my gift of gab over a phone.Then it got to me.I realized a lot of the time i was calling up people just like me or poorer trying to make ends meet and they had a ridiculous medical bill cos we all know the health insurance is a joke in this country.If i was trying to help one get a disability claim payed cos the insurance Co.was *bleep*-footing around that was different.Much of the job wasnt that way.My conscience bothered me and i left to do something else.It could go the same way maybe for many who worked in tobacco industry.They were promoting something killing others to earn a living.
I went a long way here thinking of the way Paints meant that.I am not taking sides just trying to be fair what i thought.
So you are bible trained then you know Peters words "we must obey God as ruler than man"One can remain neutral in conflict,love God and neighbor,pay their taxes and be law abiding.Some here have told me to move cos of my opinions of US government.But thats worldwide.Remember Jesus said,whole world lies in power of wicked one.
I know you can come back at me and say if we didnt have a military ISIS would be running rampant in our country.Or we would all be Nazis.Something along that line.
I think the best way to some this up would be to repeat Ghandis words about Jesus Sermon on Mount speeech.There would be NOOOOOOO problems.Imagine Ghandi backing that up and he was supposed to be atheist!!
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I really have no official opinion on this issue due to my belief our military is strong enough, and more importantly, technologically advanced that a draft would not be necessary, unless we fell into a nuclear war...
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You may be literate, but you obviously can't read.
Or maybe comprehension is a problem for you.
In the age of the internet, ignorance is a choice.
Everything that I have posted here is verifiable, from multiple sources.
As another bit of "interesting trivia," the CIA is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs coming into this country. Heroin and opium, both made from poppies...which our military stood guard over...in Afghanistan.
Unfortunately for you, paints, I'm an excellent reader with tiptop comprehension skills, which is why I see your anti-American ranting for what it is. I'll say this one more time, if I talked about Islam the way you talk about America you'd be condemning me left and right as a hater, and you know it. So quit the fake indignation when I judge you by the same standards you use to so liberally damn America.
"In the age of the internet, ignorance is a choice." So what happened to you? (Oh, and you do know that not everything on the internet is true, right?)
"Everything that I have posted here is verifiable, from multiple sources." Same here.
"...the CIA is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs coming into this country." This charge against the CIA is really rather old, going back to the Vietnam era. Is it true? I don't know. But if you look at it logically, which an anti-American like you wouldn't, it doesn't make sense. Why would the CIA bring illegal drugs into its OWN country, to harm its OWN people? Wouldn't it make more sense to flood enemy nations with drugs, and harm their people? I'm not naive. I know that the shadowy world of intelligence and counter-intelligence operates by a different "morality" from the one that guides normal life. Consequently, I wouldn't put much past the CIA or all intelligence agencies. That's where you and I part ways, paints. I recognize that ALL nations and their intelligence agencies can do nefarious business. Your left-wing brain, on the other hand, believes the worst ONLY about America. That's anti-American. And you know it.
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Hi hitch.
"You went a little far comparing an appliance or piece of clothing to an underpaid worker." You misread what I wrote. I didn't compare an appliance or piece of clothing to an underpaid worker. Paints blathered about not profiting from the blood of innocents. To challenge his insufferable self-righteousness, I countered that he'd better make sure that everything he owned or ate didn't come from a Third World sweatshop or underpaid field hands. In other words, war isn't the only way to "profit from the blood of innocents", and if paints is so righteous, he'd better make sure he avoids all the other ways. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post.
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You may be literate, but you obviously can't read.
Or maybe comprehension is a problem for you.
In the age of the internet, ignorance is a choice.
Everything that I have posted here is verifiable, from multiple sources.
As another bit of "interesting trivia," the CIA is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs coming into this country. Heroin and opium, both made from poppies...which our military stood guard over...in Afghanistan.
Unfortunately for you, paints, I'm an excellent reader with tiptop comprehension skills, which is why I see your anti-American ranting for what it is. I'll say this one more time, if I talked about Islam the way you talk about America you'd be condemning me left and right as a hater, and you know it. So quit the fake indignation when I judge you by the same standards you use to so liberally damn America.
"In the age of the internet, ignorance is a choice." So what happened to you? (Oh, and you do know that not everything on the internet is true, right?)
"Everything that I have posted here is verifiable, from multiple sources." Same here.
"...the CIA is the biggest supplier of illegal drugs coming into this country." This charge against the CIA is really rather old, going back to the Vietnam era. Is it true? I don't know. But if you look at it logically, which an anti-American like you wouldn't, it doesn't make sense. Why would the CIA bring illegal drugs into its OWN country, to harm its OWN people? Wouldn't it make more sense to flood enemy nations with drugs, and harm their people? I'm not naive. I know that the shadowy world of intelligence and counter-intelligence operates by a different "morality" from the one that guides normal life. Consequently, I wouldn't put much past the CIA or all intelligence agencies. That's where you and I part ways, paints. I recognize that ALL nations and their intelligence agencies can do nefarious business. Your left-wing brain, on the other hand, believes the worst ONLY about America. That's anti-American. And you know it.
Dwana, you've tried very hard to make this about me.
You've called me anti-American, leftist, implied a connection/sympathy with Islam, and generally implied that I am stupid.
So, do some research for yourself.
MK-ULTRA
Operation Paperclip
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Condor
Operation Northwoods
And currently, Operation Gladio.
If we're going to claim the moral high ground, maybe we should find it first.
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Hi hitch.
"You went a little far comparing an appliance or piece of clothing to an underpaid worker." You misread what I wrote. I didn't compare an appliance or piece of clothing to an underpaid worker. Paints blathered about not profiting from the blood of innocents. To challenge his insufferable self-righteousness, I countered that he'd better make sure that everything he owned or ate didn't come from a Third World sweatshop or underpaid field hands. In other words, war isn't the only way to "profit from the blood of innocents", and if paints is so righteous, he'd better make sure he avoids all the other ways. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post.
Dwana...blood money could affect ones conscience more so.I am glad i didnt invent the atomic bomb.On the other hand you arent gonna change the system if some are underpaid.OH..i shouldnt go in McDonalds cos the workers arent making $15 an hr yet!!!LOL!!
BTW...i think Paints is a woman
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"BTW...i think Paints is a woman" Thanks, hitch, but paints hasn't told me that and until I know for sure I'll keep referring to paints with the generic male pronoun, as I always do when I don't know the sex of the person I'm talking to or about.
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Paints,
"So, do some research for yourself.
MK-ULTRA
Operation Paperclip
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Condor
Operation Northwoods
And currently, Operation Gladio."
Except for Operation Northwoods, I've heard of all of these operations either by name or inference. They're nothing new, and such operations are not peculiar to the CIA. They're what you'd expect from any intelligence agency. Do with that what you will.
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There's no more draft, just all voluntary military now.
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Paints,
"So, do some research for yourself.
MK-ULTRA
Operation Paperclip
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Condor
Operation Northwoods
And currently, Operation Gladio."
Except for Operation Northwoods, I've heard of all of these operations either by name or inference. They're nothing new, and such operations are not peculiar to the CIA. They're what you'd expect from any intelligence agency. Do with that what you will.
So it's ok with you to set up fake attacks on US citizens to get us into a war?
Way to support the troops there, guy.
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Paints,
"So, do some research for yourself.
MK-ULTRA
Operation Paperclip
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Condor
Operation Northwoods
And currently, Operation Gladio."
Except for Operation Northwoods, I've heard of all of these operations either by name or inference. They're nothing new, and such operations are not peculiar to the CIA. They're what you'd expect from any intelligence agency. Do with that what you will.
So it's ok with you to set up fake attacks on US citizens to get us into a war?
Way to support the troops there, guy.
First, I'm not a guy. Second, I never said it's ok to set up fake attacks on US citizens, and you KNOW I didn't, paints. I did not comment on the morality of the CIA actions you mentioned above. Rather, I pointed out that said actions weren't new, I'd heard of them (save one) before, and they're not peculiar to the CIA. And I stand by that. And your moral outrage over the CIA would be far more believable if you were equally moved by the nefarious deeds of other spy agencies. Instead, you only rail against the agency employed by America. Hmmmmm, wonder why.
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Paints,
"So, do some research for yourself.
MK-ULTRA
Operation Paperclip
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Condor
Operation Northwoods
And currently, Operation Gladio."
Except for Operation Northwoods, I've heard of all of these operations either by name or inference. They're nothing new, and such operations are not peculiar to the CIA. They're what you'd expect from any intelligence agency. Do with that what you will.
So it's ok with you to set up fake attacks on US citizens to get us into a war?
Way to support the troops there, guy.
First, I'm not a guy. Second, I never said it's ok to set up fake attacks on US citizens, and you KNOW I didn't, paints. I did not comment on the morality of the CIA actions you mentioned above. Rather, I pointed out that said actions weren't new, I'd heard of them (save one) before, and they're not peculiar to the CIA. And I stand by that. And your moral outrage over the CIA would be far more believable if you were equally moved by the nefarious deeds of other spy agencies. Instead, you only rail against the agency employed by America. Hmmmmm, wonder why.
Nor am I a guy. Irrelevant.
And I'll apologize for the comment. I'm not much given to snark.
Dwana, the actions of the CIA have led us into conflicts where we had none. They don't fight the wars, but they instigate them.
If I rail against American actions, it's because I am an American, and I want better for my country than war and conflict.
The Bible says, "Be at peace with all men."
That's the goal.
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"Dwana, the actions of the CIA have led us into conflicts where we had none. They don't fight the wars, but they instigate them." So other countries and their intelligence agencies never instigate unrest, conflict, and war in the world. It's all America's fault. Damn, evil America. Got it.
"If I rail against American actions, it's because I am an American, and I want better for my country than war and conflict." The old I-condemn-my-country-because-I-love-it nonsense. Leftie types, including actor Martin Sheen, have long peddled this bull in defense of their anti-Americanism and ridiculously one-sided moralizing. Hint, it's not convincing.
"The Bible says, "Be at peace with all men."
That's the goal." Peace is an admirable goal, certainly. But myopic condemnation of one country has ZERO chance of achieving it, and I think you know that. Undermining America, not creating peace, is the real objective of America bashing.
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Dwana your bible knowledge should help you understand what happens to world powers.
Egypt,Assyria,Babylon.Medo-Persia,Greece,Rome,Anglo-American
None of them stand forever.2. What is the only solution to mankind’s problems?
2 What is the solution? God’s Kingdom, for which Jesus taught his followers to pray: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” (Matthew 6:9, 10) God’s heavenly Kingdom is described at 2 Peter 3:13 as the “new heavens,” which is to rule over the “new earth,” that is, righteous human society. So important is God’s heavenly Kingdom that Jesus made it the focus of his preaching. (Matthew 4:17) He showed the place that it should have in our lives, urging: “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness.”—Matthew 6:33.
We had to drop A-bomb on Japan.They attacked Pearl Harbor.We had to go kill Bib Laden.He caused 9/11.Yet slogan of USA is "In god we trust"Sure it is.......Satan is the god of this system.Remember god Isnt TRUE Gods name and we all know HIS son said HIS kingdom is no part of this world and satan rules it for now.
So what is the sense going back and forth.You cant serve 2 masters.Jesus explained why.Yet some want to call themselves xtian and then be part of Babylon the Great which is false empire of religeon or bow down to mans BS!!
As i have said before,you can remain neutral,LOVE God and your neighbor,obey laws and pay your taxes.When truth gets compromised by man Peters words were,"we must obey God"
NOT that i have to remind anybody,but when i refer to TRUE GOD i am referring to JEHOVAH!!
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"Dwana, the actions of the CIA have led us into conflicts where we had none. They don't fight the wars, but they instigate them." So other countries and their intelligence agencies never instigate unrest, conflict, and war in the world. It's all America's fault. Damn, evil America. Got it.
"If I rail against American actions, it's because I am an American, and I want better for my country than war and conflict." The old I-condemn-my-country-because-I-love-it nonsense. Leftie types, including actor Martin Sheen, have long peddled this bull in defense of their anti-Americanism and ridiculously one-sided moralizing. Hint, it's not convincing.
"The Bible says, "Be at peace with all men."
That's the goal." Peace is an admirable goal, certainly. But myopic condemnation of one country has ZERO chance of achieving it, and I think you know that. Undermining America, not creating peace, is the real objective of America bashing.
And still, you make it about me.
Our actions, both covert and overt, have made America less safe.
"To not know history is to have been born yesterday." Howard Zinn
Telling the truth is not "America bashing."
For your enlightenment:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
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Hello,
What a great question. I am against the draft. Have a terrific day!
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"Our actions, both covert and overt, have made America less safe." Still more "blame America first" . That's your default position for explaining everything in the world, right paints? No matter what happens, America did it. You're probably a 9/11 truther, too. Rotten, stinking, evil George W. Bush deliberately engineered 9/11 and slaughtered nearly 3000 Americans so he could invade Afghanistan and take over the poppy fields! MUUUUUWAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Listen, paints. I've never and will never say America is perfect. But I also will not stand by and let my country be unjustly condemned and blamed for all the evil in the world. As hard as it seems for you to accept, paints, there's real evil in the world. There are, always have been, and always will be real ideologies, real belief systems that, when implemented by real people, bring real horror into the world. America, like most nations, has deployed various measures--diplomatic, economic, military--to protect herself and her allies. Sure, some of these measures may be morally questionable at best, but that doesn't justify ignoring the evil that necessitates them. But I know you just don't get it. Blaming America makes things so much simpler, and I guess that's the way you like it.
Oh, and I did click your link. I was disappointed that it lead to such an old piece, one written between the world wars. Still, I understand why Major Gen. Butler's pamphlet appeals to you. He blames war on profits, i.e. capitalism, omitting any concept of evil. War is caused by capitalism and war can be stopped by taking the profit out of it, i.e., by getting rid of capitalism. Avoid the messy business of confronting evil; just smash the "international bankers" and we'll have peace for all time. Good luck.
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I just came here to read the comments, but you all got me pumped... I'm against a female draft. I don't think it matters anyway. In the future we won't even be fighting on the ground unless it's Terminator style. Hah. :sad1:
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All but one of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi nationals. So why did we go to war with Saddam Hussein/Iraq?
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So why did we attack Iraq?
Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. So why did we attack Afghanistan?
The statement I made about going to war to protect the poppy fields came directly from my congressman. He assured me, in one of his official newsletters, that the poppies are doing just fine, now that we are there to protect them.
And yes, I understand that there is real evil in the world. What I also understand is that we nurture and fund way too much of it.
In Syria, right now, there are militias funded, trained and armed by the CIA, fighting against militias funded, trained and armed by the Pentagon.
Tell me how that makes any sense at all??
You dismiss Major General Butlers' pamphlet as an "old piece."
If you honestly think that anything has changed since then, you haven't been paying attention.
Talk to some veterans today, you'll hear the same story.
Ever hear of the Monroe Doctrine? Or Manifest Destiny?
Ever researched how Hawaii became a state?
We are not who we think we are.
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All but one of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi nationals. So why did we go to war with Saddam Hussein/Iraq?
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So why did we attack Iraq?
Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. So why did we attack Afghanistan?
The statement I made about going to war to protect the poppy fields came directly from my congressman. He assured me, in one of his official newsletters, that the poppies are doing just fine, now that we are there to protect them.
And yes, I understand that there is real evil in the world. What I also understand is that we nurture and fund way too much of it.
In Syria, right now, there are militias funded, trained and armed by the CIA, fighting against militias funded, trained and armed by the Pentagon.
Tell me how that makes any sense at all??
You dismiss Major General Butlers' pamphlet as an "old piece."
If you honestly think that anything has changed since then, you haven't been paying attention.
Talk to some veterans today, you'll hear the same story.
Ever hear of the Monroe Doctrine? Or Manifest Destiny?
Ever researched how Hawaii became a state?
We are not who we think we are.
Believe it or not, paints, I actually have the same question about the invasion of Iraq, but your claim that Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 is absurd. Al-Quaeda was based in Afghanistan and maintained terrorist training camps there with the full assent of Afghanistan's Taliban gov't. So yes, Afghanistan had something to do with 9/11; your denial of that just shows your determination to believe the worst about the country you claim to love.
As for Maj. Gen. Butler's pamphlet, I didn't dismiss it. I was just surprised you didn't link to information related to the modern incidents we'd mentioned. However, Butler's talk about war being for the profit of business and "international bankers" did give me pause. "International bankers" is code for Jews and figures prominently in the rantings of anti-Semites. I'm suspicious of the motives of anyone who uses the term.
Syria is a mess, with no easy answers to its terrible civil war. However, your implication that the war is America's fault is delusional. Russia and Iran are big players in Syria. Russia has deployed troops there to support the gov't of Bashar Al-Assad. Iran has sent in its Hezboallah surrogates to do the same. But America is the problem. Typical, paints, typical.
Yes, I've heard of the Monroe Doctrine, Manifest Destiny, and how Hawaii became a state.
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Concerning the Taliban and Al-Quaeda, see http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175977/
Also, from an Army Ranger:http://inthesetimes.com/article/19042/postwar-young-people-fanning
Controlling the oil in the Middle East- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-vine/the-bases-of-war-in-the-middle-east_b_6151682.html
I don't think the international bankers Butler spoke of were Jewish. I've also found no evidence of his being anti-jewish.
As to the international bankers, see this: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/wars-bankers-wars.html
Syria is a mess. Whether it's a mess we made is debatable. I do know the CIA was training Syrian rebels in Jordan in 2013.
What would you expect Russia to do? If Russia attacked an ally of ours, would we just stand by?
And Russia wasn't the one who bombed a hospital. That was us.
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Concerning the Taliban and Al-Quaeda, see http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175977/
Also, from an Army Ranger:http://inthesetimes.com/article/19042/postwar-young-people-fanning
Controlling the oil in the Middle East- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-vine/the-bases-of-war-in-the-middle-east_b_6151682.html
I don't think the international bankers Butler spoke of were Jewish. I've also found no evidence of his being anti-jewish.
As to the international bankers, see this: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/wars-bankers-wars.html
Syria is a mess. Whether it's a mess we made is debatable. I do know the CIA was training Syrian rebels in Jordan in 2013.
What would you expect Russia to do? If Russia attacked an ally of ours, would we just stand by?
And Russia wasn't the one who bombed a hospital. That was us.
You're not anti-war, paints. I mention Russian involvement in Syria and do you go off on them? NO! You give them a pass. America made them do it by attacking Syria. That's your excuse for them. Only, America didn't attack Syria. Syria's civil war arose out of the anti-gov't protests that erupted there as part of the Arab Spring. That was in 2011; so, if the CIA was training Syrian rebels in 2013 that was two years AFTER the war had already started. But I know you don't care. Your explanation will be that the CIA engineered the Arab Spring to start a war in Syria so it could train rebels to fight in the war it secretly started, all to provoke Russia, and let America bomb a hospital. Yeah, that's it! And of course the bombing of the hospital had to be premeditated. If Syria had oil and poppy fields, you'd really be off the chain!
Every war, every evil in the world, is America's fault. That's what you believe, paints. That's the only framework by which your left-wing brain can explain the world. America is the big baddie on the block. If others do wrong, it's only because they were provoked by us, the Great Satan. You are on the same page as the mullahs in Iran, yet you get indignant at any questioning of your patriotism. Go figure.
And before you ask, no, I don't believe "my country, right or wrong". I just don't believe my country is all wrong, all the time. You do.
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Concerning the Taliban and Al-Quaeda, see http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175977/
Also, from an Army Ranger:http://inthesetimes.com/article/19042/postwar-young-people-fanning
Controlling the oil in the Middle East- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-vine/the-bases-of-war-in-the-middle-east_b_6151682.html
I don't think the international bankers Butler spoke of were Jewish. I've also found no evidence of his being anti-jewish.
As to the international bankers, see this: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/wars-bankers-wars.html
Syria is a mess. Whether it's a mess we made is debatable. I do know the CIA was training Syrian rebels in Jordan in 2013.
What would you expect Russia to do? If Russia attacked an ally of ours, would we just stand by?
And Russia wasn't the one who bombed a hospital. That was us.
You're not anti-war, paints. I mention Russian involvement in Syria and do you go off on them? NO! You give them a pass. America made them do it by attacking Syria. That's your excuse for them. Only, America didn't attack Syria. Syria's civil war arose out of the anti-gov't protests that erupted there as part of the Arab Spring. That was in 2011; so, if the CIA was training Syrian rebels in 2013 that was two years AFTER the war had already started. But I know you don't care. Your explanation will be that the CIA engineered the Arab Spring to start a war in Syria so it could train rebels to fight in the war it secretly started, all to provoke Russia, and let America bomb a hospital. Yeah, that's it! And of course the bombing of the hospital had to be premeditated. If Syria had oil and poppy fields, you'd really be off the chain!
Every war, every evil in the world, is America's fault. That's what you believe, paints. That's the only framework by which your left-wing brain can explain the world. America is the big baddie on the block. If others do wrong, it's only because they were provoked by us, the Great Satan. You are on the same page as the mullahs in Iran, yet you get indignant at any questioning of your patriotism. Go figure.
And before you ask, no, I don't believe "my country, right or wrong". I just don't believe my country is all wrong, all the time. You do.
Dwana, we have been at war for most of the years we have been a country.
We instigate wars, we foment rebellions, we assassinate democratically elected leaders in other countries because they don't fit our business model. Or because they don't want to do business with us.
The world does not belong to us.
Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset, with ties to Saudi Arabia, and the Bush family.
Al-Queda was/is CIA.
Saddam Hussein, CIA asset, also ties to Bush.
As I said, we are not who we think we are.
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"Dwana, we have been at war for most of the years we have been a country.
We instigate wars, we foment rebellions, we assassinate democratically elected leaders in other countries because they don't fit our business model. Or because they don't want to do business with us.
The world does not belong to us.
Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset, with ties to Saudi Arabia, and the Bush family.
Al-Queda was/is CIA.
Saddam Hussein, CIA asset, also ties to Bush.
As I said, we are not who we think we are."
Thank you, paints, for confirming everything I've said about you. Now go get your one-way ticket to Tehran.
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Glad to have made you feel vindicated, dwana.
Doesn't make what I've said any less true.
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/print.htm
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"Glad to have made you feel vindicated, dwana." Thank you, paints.
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"Doesn't make what I've said any less true." Your "truth", paints, is that America is the devil. All wars, all evils in the world are caused by her. The mullahs would love you; probably already do.
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My truth, dwana, is documented.
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My truth, dwana, is documented.
So you're admitting that you do believe America is the devil? And if you believe so much in truth, why do you refuse to acknowledge the good that America does and has done?
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My truth, dwana, is documented.
So you're admitting that you do believe America is the devil? And if you believe so much in truth, why do you refuse to acknowledge the good that America does and has done?
Not what I said. I said what I post as truth is documented.
We were speaking of war. There is no good to be acknowledged in war.
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"We were speaking of war. There is no good to be acknowledged in war." Yes, paints, we were speaking of war AND your penchant for blaming America for all of it. You say you're anti-war but your failure to denounce wars waged by any country but the US proves that it's really America, and not war, that you hate.
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So what you're saying is that if I agree that the answer to every one of Americas' problems is "kill kill kill!!!!" I'd be a good American?
Yeah, no.
Wars are a dullards way to tie his shoelaces.
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"So what you're saying is that if I agree that the answer to every one of Americas' problems is "kill kill kill!!!!" I'd be a good American?" Seriously, paints? That's not what I said and you dang well know it. Nice try, though, at trying to confuse the issue. Unfortunately for you, such tricks don't work on me. What I said was that you're not anti-war, but anti-American, and your one-sided moralizing and denunciations prove it. And I stand by that.
When I stated that the Russians and Iranians are big players in Syria you responded by giving the Russians a pass, claiming they were only defending their ally from--surprise!--big, bad America. You're cut from the same cloth as the anti-war fakes of the '80's who sanctimoniously condemned America's involvement in El Salvador's civil war but said absolutely nothing against the Soviets' far deadlier war in Afghanistan. I soon understood that what the "anti-war" crowd back then really opposed wasn't war but war against communism. Wars fought to impose or maintain communism, such as the Soviets' war in Afghanistan, were perfectly ok with the "peace" crowd. I became utterly disgusted with their hypocrisy, as I am now with yours, paints.
In short, true pacifists oppose war, even in the name of causes they support, and condemn all players in it equally. Fakes, on the other hand, exploit anti-war sentiments to achieve other goals and/or put a virtuous face on national or political hatred. You're not a true pacifist, paints.
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I'm anti-deception, dwana.
If your ideology is so flawed that you have to kill people to get them to accept it, there is a problem with your ideology. That goes, whether it's communism or capitalism, or any other ism.
As for condemning all sides equally, why?
If a thief breaks into your house, do you just let him take whatever he wants? If you fight back against the thief, and try to stop him, and he kills your son to make you compliant, does that make you equally at fault for the death of your son?
"to achieve other goals and/or put a virtuous face on national or political hatred."
That's exactly what the pro-war crowd does.
It's ok to go to war with Iraq, because 9/11. Except they didn't.
It's ok to escalate war with Viet Nam, because the Gulf of Tonkin. Except they didn't.
It's ok to go to war with Japan, because Pearl Harbor. Except that we knew about it, and deliberately didn't stop it.
"If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."
Except, we are the terrorists.
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I don't believe that women should have to sign up for the draft. Even though women want to be treated as equals with men, it is obvious that women are simply physically made different. I know they can build strength and stamina but it cannot be equivalent to mens'.
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"Except, we are the terrorists. " We're the terrorists, paints? Just keep proving me right, paints.
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"Except, we are the terrorists. " We're the terrorists, paints? Just keep proving me right, paints.
Ask a soldier, dwana.
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"Except, we are the terrorists. " We're the terrorists, paints? Just keep proving me right, paints.
Ask a soldier, dwana.
You're such an America hater, paints, that any military action we take is terrorism in your eyes. America is the devil, the fount from which all evil springs. That's what you believe. Tell me, paints. How do you think wars occurred before America existed? And no, that's not a rhetorical question.
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"Except, we are the terrorists. " We're the terrorists, paints? Just keep proving me right, paints.
Ask a soldier, dwana.
You're such an America hater, paints, that any military action we take is terrorism in your eyes. America is the devil, the fount from which all evil springs. That's what you believe. Tell me, paints. How do you think wars occurred before America existed? And no, that's not a rhetorical question.
Did that work with your Dad?
It didn't with mine.
If everybody else jumps off a bridge, are you going to jump, too?
Yes, there have always been wars fought.
That doesn't make it right.
Wars start because of lust of the eye, lust of the flesh, and pride of life.
I see, I want, I deserve.
And if you can convince enough people to help you get whatever it is you think you deserve, you have a war.
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Well, paints, at least you admitted that wars happened before America ever existed.
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It's a matter of scale, dwana.
Yes, there have been wars before America existed.
In none of those wars before America existed, could one psychopath destroy the whole planet, and everything and everyone on it.
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I think it's wise to have every 18 year old register for the draft, but I don't think it's wise to actually have a draft. I'm a bit of a pacifist, but there's no way I would've fought in Iraq or Afghanistan at 18. I think if we are being directly attacked, then yes, but those weren't our wars to fight.
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I don't think anyone should be required to sign up for a draft, but unfortunately this day in age that is what will have to happen. I think everyone should have the right to choose. But if one gender has to sign up then many it would be fair if both genders were required to.
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I would say id be for it only because there are a lot of females out there who are as good if not better then the guys. but I also believe that the females should be offered a choice.