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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: queenofnines on June 20, 2010, 09:57:32 am
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Some background info: the following is in response to a 17-year-old guy who is in the process of deconverting from Christianity but worries his life is going to be useless and depressing without god. You can read the full comments here: http://new.exchristian.net/2010/06/without-god-whats-point.html
"Hey Jon,
By the time I was your age I was passing bibles out downtown, my pastor let me preach, and I led prayer groups in high school. Not to toot my horn but give you an Idea of how serious I took my faith.
I was also incredibly depressed,unhappy and suicidal.. I was so militant/absolutist in my thinking, I was quickly going to a very dark place. If I was born in Islam, I would have been a suicide bomber without a doubt. When you leave christainity, it doesnt mean you are abandoning your feelings of a higher power, nor does it mean you suddenly are going to become an unethical person, not wanting to do good things.
Now years have past, and I have deprogrammed myself from the cult of christianity, and coming from the perspective of both sides I realize how ugly life was looking thru the eyes of christianity. when in reality we live in such a interesting, mysterious , beautiful world when we ceace to " spiritualize" every single thing into black/white.
Think about this christian perspective and you tell me is this is positive and good ..
1.Most every body is going to hell forever to suffer eternal pain forever and ever and ever
2.The world/universe is ugly, full of sin.
3. Satan is always wispering in your ear trying to tempt you to sin.
4.All non-christians deny the Truth and are the enemy of God
5.Natural human biological drives are sinful.
6. You are worthless worthy of eternal suffering.
7. Some people go to Hell because they think God is too loving to send people to Hell.
8. God made billions of people knowing that they will suffer eternal pain for 100,000 trillion years plus forever.
9. This Earth is soon to be destroyed,so who cares about the environment, biodiversity.. Its all piosioned with sin, its ugly. Its value is secondary. There is no inherent beauty in it.
10. Spend your entire physical existence fantasizing about how wonderful the after life will be. Learn to view your life on earth with disgust, because its all evil.
11. Demonize and dehumanize your human brothers and sisters, because they all deserve Gods eternal *bleep* death camp. Judge everything they say and do as spiritualy dead and probably evil.
12. Let your guilt consume your mind...its God talking to you.
13. always live with the realization that your never good enough for GOd.
14. who cares about science, education? Its secondary to the bible.
.......tell me John if this creates a wonderful healthy view of life and humanity?
My experiences inside christianity and outside... I know without a doubt that christians are the most unhappy depressed dysfunctional paranoid abusive culture I have ever experienced."
~ by drhomeskooled
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I don't think 'brilliant' can give this it's due, it's way beyond that and so truthful! It definitely applies to those of us who have seen both sides especially when many think we are all completely ignorant as to a 'christian way of life'. Thank you, tenfold, for putting this up, queenofnines. I know it will be bashed into a pulp by many, but I can still hope some will be open minded enough to look at it for what it is.
((((((((♥♥♥))))))) cyberhugs
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:dontknow: I don't have a religion. I just believe in God.
But you have still been willing to accept handouts from churches and religious organizations - you said it, not me. So, what does that make you? Seems like a hypocrite to me since you will take from those who tithe in 'God's houses', but yet claim you have no religion.
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I don't think 'brilliant' can give this it's due, it's way beyond that and so truthful!
Glad you liked it! ExChristian is a great site, you should check the rest of it out. I have even written for it myself when I first left the fold. ;)
You got to do what you got to do as far as taking money or food, it is better than committing a crime!
I agree with that, but from a religious standpoint, why? The sooner you die the sooner you get to be with Jesus, right? I've never understood that about believers -- if y'all are so convinced you'll get heaven when you die, why artificially prolong this life? Because you're secretly scared you might be wrong and don't want to sacrifice the only life you might get. Saying it's because "god still has work for you" or the like is a pitiful excuse.
I don't know what religion to be there are so many, maybe I should ask God.
You better believe them all just in case. Including the Egyptian, Greek, and Roman gods. Hopefully the ones that say you'll burn in hell if you worship other gods don't really mean it. :angel12:
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This is really great. Good find!
I know it will be bashed into a pulp by many
How?
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I made that comment re the bashing more or less assuming (dangerous thing to do, I know) some believers would pick apart why the statements are so flawed. There is a lot of strong, derogatory language in them if you are a "God is all goodness and light" type of thinker.
On the other hand, much of it could be used to reinforce (as if we haven't heard it enough) the idea that non-believers are doomed for just the things pointed out in it. Numbers 3, 4, and 14 are perfect examples of that! I could very well be dead wrong on the bashing. I guess we'll just have to see.
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Some of it I can relate to and some of it makes me think 'man, what church were you going to?' lol
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I actually enjoy living that is why!
Hmm, I've seen you write things to the contrary in other threads. I guess it just depends on the day (or mood), eh?
I am not "secretly" afraid there is no God so I need to prolong my life! Who have you been talking to? Where do you get this :bs: ? Is this how you feel and speaking from experience?
Maybe for some people this isn't the case, but deep down, for most Christians it is correct. It was for me, and when you have clues like rushing ambulances, people praying not to die, and folks taking full advantage of medical care, it sure makes one wonder WHY when Earth is so crappy compared to heaven. I think churches realized people would be aware that heaven is way better and created a loophole by saying if you kill yourself, you'll go straight to hell.
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@marieelissa:
Why do you keep calling everyone that believes in God a Christian? That is not the only religion.
You had the nerve to ask me if I ever read the Bible and then you write this?!Christian is NOT a definition of a religion. Christian=a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ, a belief that Christ was the son of God.
Yes, you have said many times, in many threads, in many posts that your (it) life 'sucks', life in general 'sucks', you can't wait to get to Heaven because it will be so much better - do I need to make it clearer for you? I don't know how else to take that and no, I did not imagine it anymore than queenofnines did when she read it.
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:dontknow: I don't have a religion. I just believe in God.
But you have still been willing to accept handouts from churches and religious organizations - you said it, not me. So, what does that make you? Seems like a hypocrite to me since you will take from those who tithe in 'God's houses', but yet claim you have no religion.
Believing in God is my Religion. You got to do what you got to do as far as taking money or food, it is better than committing a crime! I don't know what religion to be there are so many, maybe I should ask God.
Yes ask your imaginary friend what to do!
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I think churches realized people would be aware that heaven is way better and created a loophole by saying if you kill yourself, you'll go straight to hell.
I disagree with this. Some people try to kill themselves and still live. Apparently it's not their time yet. Just because someone tries to kill her or himself doesn't mean you go straight to hell. I've not heard of that (at least in what I know and have learned.) How would you know it's a "loophole" in any case?
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You had the nerve to ask me if I ever read the Bible and then you write this?!Christian is NOT a definition of a religion. Christian=a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ, a belief that Christ was the son of God.
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who Christians believe is the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the son of God. Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity a description of God as Father, as Son, and as Holy Spirit.
The term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."
Thanks for defining it for us, because it's not like some of us haven't been Christians before. ::)
I stick to Christianity mainly because you know damn well most Americans identify with it. But feel free to interchange your god-of-choice because they're all equally B.S. anyway.
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I don't think the original desertation was brilliant, I think it was sad. Who ever was lambasting him in his youth about God/Christian or otherwise certainly gave him a distorted view of the religion.
I'm Christian. Most of his statements ar just the opposite of what I believe and was taught. But that just means my pastor came from a different school of thought.
Hope each of us find peace in our beliefs; joy in our lives and rest in the everafter. :peace: :heart:
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Some people try to kill themselves and still live. Apparently it's not their time yet.
And I disagree with that because a lot of the time, a person might contemplate suicide but become too fearful of the act of doing it or decide they don't really want to do it. Also you're neglecting to mention that the suicide attempts that fail are the ones that aren't guaranteed successes (like swallowing pills). If a person puts a gun point-blank to their head, however, they're going to die (unless the gun jams, but that is very, very rare). In any case, it takes *bleep* to follow through with a suicide because it goes against our genetic nature to survive at all costs.
Just because someone tries to kill her or himself doesn't mean you go straight to hell. I've not heard of that (at least in what I know and have learned.) How would you know it's a "loophole" in any case?
No they don't go to hell at all, thankfully. But they don't go to heaven either. As a Christian for 5 years, that's definitely something that was taught in my neighborhood. Because think about it -- a person who commits suicide is breaking a commandment (thou shalt not kill) that they can't repent of. And they obviously didn't truly trust Jesus as their Lord and Savior to lead their lives if they think their life is so horrible that they have to end it, which is a requirement for heaven.
As for the loophole, I think coming up with the above reasons as to why suicide is an unforgivable sin is so Christianity can cover its tracks. It would be like a death cult if too many believers were offing themselves so they could go straight to heaven. Ya see what I'm getting at?
True Christians will not commit suicide because True Saints do not "die in [their] sins" (John 8:21). Only "he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 10:22). And, Murderers of Self are reserved for the Lake of Fire. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the Second Death" (Revelation 21:8). The Saints do not die in their sins because the Faithful God has already made provision for their success. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is Faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1Corinthians 10:13). For one to succeed with the sin of suicide, would be to utterly spurn the Grace of God. "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20). ~ whatsaiththescripture.com
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Hey Queens,
By the time I was your age I had committed almost every immoral act on the planet. Not to toot my horn but to give you an idea how serious I took my faith.
I was incredibly depressed, unhappy and suicidal. I was militant in my attempts to convert people to the party life. I was quickly going to a very dark place.
When you leave christainity, it doesnt mean you are abandoning your feelings of a higher power, nor does it mean you suddenly are going to become an unethical person, not wanting to do good things.
This is true. When you leave Christianity, it doesn't mean you are abandoning your feelings of a higher power - you are abandoning your higher power. It doesn't mean you suddenly are going to become an unethical person - usually it takes a few years! Sure, you will want to do good things too. Your motives will just be self centered - no problem!
Now years have past, and I have deprogrammed myself from the cult of christianity, and coming from the perspective of both sides I realize how ugly life was looking thru the eyes of christianity. when in reality we live in such a interesting, mysterious , beautiful world when we ceace to " spiritualize" every single thing into black/white.
Years have passed and I have deprogrammed myself from the cult of selfism, and coming from the perspective of both sides, I realize how ugly life was looking thru the eyes of humanism. In reality, God has created such an interesting, mysterious, intriguing, beautiful world - especially when we see it through the eyes of the creator!
Think about this christian perspective and you tell me is this is positive and good ..
Think about the humanistic perspective and you tell me is this a positive and good...
1.Most every body is going to hell forever to suffer eternal pain forever and ever and ever
Everyone is going to cease to exist. No hope for a future!
2.The world/universe is ugly, full of sin.
Self Deception: "The world has no problems, and everyone is good!"
3. Satan is always wispering in your ear trying to tempt you to sin.
God is always whispering in your ears, showering you with grace, mercy and beauty.
4.All non-christians deny the Truth and are the enemy of God
All believers are intolerant. We should rid the world of them.
5.Natural human biological drives are sinful.
Self Deception: If everyone was allowed to do exactly what their biological drives (which is defined individually since there are no absolutes), pointed, pain, heartache, death, and crime would be rampant.
6. You are worthless worthy of eternal suffering.
Since there are no absolutes, everyone is ok, so eliminate all discipline and punishment. Allow everyone to do exactly what they please!
7. Some people go to Hell because they think God is too loving to send people to Hell.
People only get to live 70 or so years, and it is over!
8. God made billions of people knowing that they will suffer eternal pain for 100,000 trillion years plus forever.
Babies are worthless, so abort them.
9. This Earth is soon to be destroyed,so who cares about the environment, biodiversity.. Its all piosioned with sin, its ugly. Its value is secondary. There is no inherent beauty in it.
Make the earth your new God. It will take care of you.
10. Spend your entire physical existence fantasizing about how wonderful the after life will be. Learn to view your life on earth with disgust, because its all evil.
Spend all your life centered on your own desires - you are the only one that matters
11. Demonize and dehumanize your human brothers and sisters, because they all deserve Gods eternal *bleep* death camp. Judge everything they say and do as spiritualy dead and probably evil.
Demonize Christians because they may interfere with the position of no absolutes. Be tolerant of everyone but Christians.
12. Let your guilt consume your mind...its God talking to you.
Hide from your guilt. Imagine it doesn't exist! Cloak it with your behavior.
13. always live with the realization that your never good enough for GOd.
Imagine you are so good you need no one.
14. who cares about science, education? Its secondary to the bible.
Who cares about real science, deception, and dumbing down of the public. Believe everything that is taught to you.
.......tell me John if this creates a wonderful healthy view of life and humanity?
My experiences inside christianity and outside... I know without a doubt that christians are the most unhappy depressed dysfunctional paranoid abusive culture I have ever experienced."
Tell me Queens, who determines healthy - are there then absolutes?
My professional counseling experience outside of Christianity tells me that the most unhappy, depressed, dysfunctional, paranoid, abusive, confused, and hurting people are those who have left God. In their attempts to cloak their guilt, they are forced into all kinds of behavior that feeds their guilt to the point of desperation.
You may fool some people on this board, but in my over 50 years of experience, I know what rebellion causes in the hearts of people
BTW, have a great day. God still loves you!
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Hey Queens,
By the time I was your age
You have no idea how old I am, so why are you being arrogant? Age doesn't necessarily have anything to do with intelligence.
I had committed almost every immoral act on the planet...I was incredibly depressed, unhappy and suicidal. I was militant in my attempts to convert people to the party life. I was quickly going to a very dark place.
I have not committed almost every immoral act on the planet. ;) I'm not depressed nor suicidal. I am not "militant" because I know it's a person's choice to be ignorant to reality or not. I am not in a dark place.
It doesn't mean you suddenly are going to become an unethical person - usually it takes a few years!
Are you serious?? You've already admitted that you sort of believed in god yet did a host of "sinful" things.
Think about the humanistic perspective and you tell me is this a positive and good...
It sure is! The humanistic perspectives realizes owning blacks as slaves is wrong, that we should not discriminate against women nor gays...UNLIKE YOUR BIBLEGOD.
Self Deception: "The world has no problems, and everyone is good!"
What looney tune says there's no problems in the world?! And NO, not everyone is "good" by our standards of what is best for a secular society.
All believers are intolerant. We should rid the world of them.
You said it, not me. ;) If that is a typo and you meant to say non-believers, watch this video and tell me who is the intolerant group: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmIr9P-vkSQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=qpPsdqLo--k
Self Deception: If everyone was allowed to do exactly what their biological drives (which is defined individually since there are no absolutes), pointed, pain, heartache, death, and crime would be rampant.
Why do you have an all-or-nothing mentality? Natural drives that are VICTIMLESS are fine (i.e. homosexual sex, masturbation, monitored prostitution, etc.). Natural drives that are NOT victimless are NOT fine (i.e. rape and murder). Je-sus, is it really that hard to understand?
Babies are worthless, so abort them.
But then they go straight to heaven, right?
Spend all your life centered on your own desires - you are the only one that matters
Correct. And that's pretty much what everyone does, even believers. But this can still allow for respect for your fellow man to chase after his personal desires, too.
Be tolerant of everyone but Christians.
We're tolerant of your right to believe fairytales but we're NOT tolerant of the negative actions you choose to take because of those fairytales.
Imagine you are so good you need no one.
Realize you are ultimately responsible for yourself and should do good because it is good and not do bad because it is bad, not because some sky daddy is watching you. We share a planet and if I would rather not get murdered and you would rather not get murdered, let's agree to not murder each other then! This is not rocket science.
Who cares about real science, deception, and dumbing down of the public. Believe everything that is taught to you.
Haha, so the Bible that says the earth is 6,000 years old, flat, and that we came from dirt is "real science"? Blindly believing a Bronze Age-era collection of works written by anonymous tent-dwellers is deception! And yes, believe everything that is taught to you just like you would of Islam had you been born in the Middle East! Ah-hem.
I don't believe everything that is taught to me, just for the record. That's how people can escape dogma.
Tell me Queens, who determines healthy - are there then absolutes?
WE do as a collective society via what is best for the health, well-being, and survival of the majority of us. It is always evolving and improving. And it's why you follow society's rules rather than god's when you choose not to stone your unruly children. Which makes you a hypocrite btw, if you worship said god.
My professional counseling experience outside of Christianity tells me that the most unhappy, depressed, dysfunctional, paranoid, abusive, confused, and hurting people are those who have left God. In their attempts to cloak their guilt, they are forced into all kinds of behavior that feeds their guilt to the point of desperation.
And that may be true or not true but that does not prove god. Perhaps those people who are depressed realize this is all there is, and that can suck sometimes if you dwell on it. Perhaps those who are dysfunctional are freaking out because they know they didn't "choose" to be gay, but god says they will burn in hell forever simply due to who they love. You can be abusive and believe in god, too. Perhaps they are confused as to why a "loving" god should have need to torture people FOREVER simply for not being able to believe in him. Atheists only account for 10-15% of the population, so what are you talking about??
You may fool some people on this board, but in my over 50 years of experience, I know what rebellion causes in the hearts of people
BTW, have a great day. God still loves you!
No you don't know, you just think you know. Have you studied evolution or "the god part of the brain"? Do you realize that we are physical beings made of matter, and all matter must follow the laws of physics, meaning estentially that your whole life down to your very thoughts is already pre-determined due to a casual chain of events? Not bad for a "young one" to be aware of these things, huh?
BTW, when you end an attack with "P.S. God loves you!", you sound very self-righteous. It also seemed like you thought I wrote everything you responded to when I did not. I was merely sharing a conversation I read on a website.
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All I can say is in my entire life, I have never encountered atheists that treated believers like this, it is very shocking. Such hostile people up in here.
Stop playing the hurt feelings card. It does not help your case like you think it does and you would still play the hurt feelings card no matter HOW we phrased things.
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My professional counseling experience outside of Christianity tells me that the most unhappy, depressed, dysfunctional, paranoid, abusive, confused, and hurting people are those who have left God. In their attempts to cloak their guilt, they are forced into all kinds of behavior that feeds their guilt to the point of desperation.
I'll get back to you on your whole post, but your logic seems a bit scrambled when it applies to real life vs. fantasy. Example?
Who cares about real science, deception, and dumbing down of the public. Believe everything that is taught to you
Question science because it's deceptive but don't question the bible? Don't question things like the dirt man, rib woman, talking snake, a boat builder who has every animal on earth in it, a guy who draws super-strength from his hair, a man who heals people by touching them and who also can walk on water, etc. etc. etc. Teaching people to question things is a good thing because it helps them sniff out BS. I would never say science is dumbing down society if there is testable evidence that points to a logical conclusion. It's opening their eyes to the world as it really is. It is ignorance from religion that refuses to acknowledge these things being discovered. Things like the creationist museum and religious pseudosciences are dumbing down the public (half of texas believes people lived with dinosaurs at one point!). Not natural science. No offense, but it's attitudes like this that kept the world flat.
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Question science because it's deceptive but don't question the bible?
I find this very assumptive. Who said that?
I believe one should question everything, but then be intellectually honest enought to go where the evidence leads them. Do you?
Don't question things like the dirt man, rib woman, talking snake, a boat builder who has every animal on earth in it, a guy who draws super-strength from his hair, a man who heals people by touching them and who also can walk on water, etc. etc. etc.
Scientifically, you couldn't even prove you were in another room two days ago, so does this mean it didn't take place?
Teaching people to question things is a good thing because it helps them sniff out BS. I would never say science is dumbing down society if there is testable evidence that points to a logical conclusion.
"If" is the big question, of course. Science only dumbs down society when it is filled with intellectual dishonesty, which can easily be proven in regards to the documented evolutionary scientific coverups that have taken place in the last hundred years. You are aware of those, right?
It's opening their eyes to the world as it really is. It is ignorance from religion that refuses to acknowledge these things being discovered. Things like the creationist museum and religious pseudosciences are dumbing down the public (half of texas believes people lived with dinosaurs at one point!). Not natural science. No offense, but it's attitudes like this that kept the world flat.
Quite frankly, the evolutionists have dumbed man down to actually belieivng he came from a monkey. No wonder people feel so worthless! They think they are mere animals! Of Course, your generalization about creation science being pseudoscience proves my point. It matters not where the evidence leads, only that one prove that God does not exist. In this way, man does not need any accountability - how convenient!
The attitudes that kept the world flat were those who didn't go where the evidence leads. If they would have read their Bible, they would have noticed that it speaks of the world being roung!
G'day
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Quite frankly, the evolutionists have dumbed man down to actually belieivng he came from a monkey.
Yes, they obviously have dumbed you down if you think we came from monkeys. Anytime a believer says this it proves that they have NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER on what evolution actually is. We didn't come from monkeys; we do share a common ancestor with them, though.
Here, I'll use a stupid analogy so people who think we came from monkeys can understand: If the first "Americans" came from Europe, then why are there still Europeans?? Because we share a common ancestor. Get it?
No wonder people feel so worthless! They think they are mere animals!
You are an animal, sorry. Are you not warm-blooded? Do you not have a spine? If you're a female, do you not have the ability to give birth to live young and nurse your offspring with *bleep*? Do you not have hair? Do you not have four limbs? Do you not breathe air? Well guess what, these characteristics of mammals are also shared by cows, horses, dogs, cats, elephants, dolphins, and your favorite, MONKEYS! Just because our intelligence is higher does not make the rest "mere" animals. A cheetah is way better than a human at running; a dog is way better than you at smelling.
Explain to me why you are suddenly worthless because you are an animal. Oh wait, I know! Because if you evolved from lower life forms, you were not specially designed by god! At least not the Christian god. That would mean the Christian god is a lie. Uh-oh. :(
If they would have read their Bible, they would have noticed that it speaks of the world being roung!
And if you would have read your WHOLE Bible *and* taken a geometry class, you'd know the verse you are referring to is NOT speaking of the earth being round!
Isaiah 40:22 - "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"
The earth is a SPHERE, not a circle. Plus in this passage, the world is still being described as having a FLAT foundation..."as a tent". Which is an accurate description for people who didn't yet know the earth was round!
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Some pictures to illustrate my point...
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I find this very assumptive. Who said that?
Perhaps I misread, but you did. If you meant something else, would you mind explaining it in different words?
I believe one should question everything, but then be intellectually honest enought to go where the evidence leads them. Do you?
Yes I do. And this is why the christian god does not exist and why every myth in the bible never happened. You have a defined and personalized god with no evidence to support it besides aged man-made stories and emotional experiences that could have been used to prove any god. Most cultures have them and do this though-- yours is just as true as the next. To define the supernatural still requires proof and evidence surpassing skepticism.
Scientifically, you couldn't even prove you were in another room two days ago, so does this mean it didn't take place?
Yes you can prove someone was in a room 2 days ago. With the technology at our disposal and our ability to think of many possible ways of how to test this, we could prove it through those tests. Crime scene investigation tactics perfected through centuries of development.
Science only dumbs down society when it is filled with intellectual dishonesty, which can easily be proven in regards to the documented evolutionary scientific coverups that have taken place in the last hundred years. You are aware of those, right?
And creationist thinking isn't filled with intellectual dishonesty and coverups throughout mankinds entire history? Even today? Let me ask you this...if you were given two subjects who are both lying--
A.) One fessed up and said they were having troubles with their information and then showed they were wrong but then pursued the truth afterwards. They end up finding irrefutable proof of their hypothesis (microevolution) and are open to show it to the skeptics for verification.
B.) The other knew he was lying even though he had already been proven guilty. He keeps preaching lies thus making him delusional by definition. Every lie swelled with irrational and illogical stories of supernatural events. Whenever someone questions it, they are labeled as siding with the antagonistic spirit-demon who's swirling around in their head.
Who are you going to side with?
Quite frankly, the evolutionists have dumbed man down to actually belieivng he came from a monkey.
Because of this statement, I'm honestly not sure if anyone could trust your knowledge on the subject.
No wonder people feel so worthless! They think they are mere animals! Of Course, your generalization about creation science being pseudoscience proves my point. It matters not where the evidence leads, only that one prove that God does not exist. In this way, man does not need any accountability - how convenient!
We're animals and it's awesome. I just wish I had nightvision and retractable claws. That's all that depresses me about it. Creationist science is pseudoscience. With what is known, the evidence leads to all personalized gods not existing. Everyone's accountable for their actions. That's a big reason why governments exist.
The attitudes that kept the world flat were those who didn't go where the evidence leads. If they would have read their Bible, they would have noticed that it speaks of the world being roung!
I never saw 'oblate spheroid' in the bible. To say this is stretching the truth too far which is what creationist science does all the time. They also never bring up the other words or verses surrounding those statements as Queen has quoted above. Not to jump into another debate, but this is a major reason why homosexuality is viewed as wrong in the bible. People lay on one or two verses and don't read anything around them to realize how hypocritical they're being.
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Good gravy why can't we all just be friends? We're all gonna end up dead in the dirt regardless.. 8)
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And creationist thinking isn't filled with intellectual dishonesty and coverups throughout mankinds entire history? Even today? Let me ask you this...if you were given two subjects who are both lying--
A.) One fessed up and said they were having troubles with their information and then showed they were wrong but then pursued the truth afterwards. They end up finding irrefutable proof of their hypothesis (microevolution) and are open to show it to the skeptics for verification.
B.) The other knew he was lying even though he had already been proven guilty. He keeps preaching lies thus making him delusional by definition. Every lie swelled with irrational and illogical stories of supernatural events. Whenever someone questions it, they are labeled as siding with the antagonistic spirit-demon who's swirling around in their head.
Who are you going to side with?
Bravo! ;D :thumbsup: I bolded the last part because it is the best part.
No if you learned how to communicate in a polite manner and tone well then...it is not you, you are atcually mild compared to some but at times can be harsh.
Yes, sometimes I can be harsh, but I would equate it to "tough love" because maybe by being harsh they can finally realize how unfounded the things they are saying are (whereas if I were as polite as an old grandma, they would simply never "get it"). They can then stop spreading stupid lies like we came from monkeys, for example (I'm saying that in general, not against a specific person). If they aren't called on their statements which conflict with observable reality, they're going to go on spreading their ignorance to other people, which can lead to bad things occurring when people do not have all of the clear facts.
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So in simple terms we evolved from Apes, since Apes is what we all come from and we are related.
We did not "evolve" from apes; we split off from our common ancestor in different directions. Which is why there are still monkeys today. ;)
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This is a very good find. I find myself a little confused when it comes to religion (religion being the different beliefs of groups of people). I continually find myself feeling awkward inside of places that claim a religion. I just know what I believe in and that's ll.
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I continually find myself feeling awkward inside of places that claim a religion.
Perhaps you should investigate that feeling further, as what you're describing is usually a tell-tale sign that you KNOW something fishy is going on; something doesn't seem rational, something isn't adding up... I had that same feeling myself when I used to go to Baptist services and people started wailing out-of-the-blue and that was the whole service, people wailing and the pastor chanting, "Hallelujah!" over and over again. Even as a then-Christian I could see that such behaviors are indicators of a CULT.
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(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/fb-ati-twbo.jpg?w=500&h=667)
(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/e4bc03b4-c395-4560-b600-bc94b310b5bc.jpg?w=351&h=387)
This has nothing to do with anything, but I had to post these pix. I lol'd.
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Good gravy why can't we all just be friends? We're all gonna end up dead in the dirt regardless.. 8)
Most perhaps but I do not believe in the burying of bodies. It is a waste of space!
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Most perhaps but I do not believe in the burying of bodies. It is a waste of space!
Yeah but people need to have their little mark on the world even in death because they're insecure. I don't know why they think it matters; most of us will be forgotten within a generation or two... ;)
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Most people just don't like the idea of burning their bodies.
Well that's ridiculous -- you will be dead and thus, not be able to feel anything. Save your poor family some money when you're dead and have yourself go up in flames. ;)
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yay I started another argument! Now how about that crazy little war...
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yay I started another argument! Now how about that crazy little war...
Well you'll soon learn that when you have trolls like marie hovering in your threads, it happens. :crybaby2:
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I want to be cremated. Either be scattered in the ocean or maybe have my ashes made into some sort of reef like structure, so I can be dropped in the ocean and be home to fish. No one needs to visit me. It'll be great.
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I want to be cremated. Either be scattered in the ocean or maybe have my ashes made into some sort of reef like structure, so I can be dropped in the ocean and be home to fish. No one needs to visit me. It'll be great.
That sounds neat! :)
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I want to be cremated. Either be scattered in the ocean or maybe have my ashes made into some sort of reef like structure, so I can be dropped in the ocean and be home to fish. No one needs to visit me. It'll be great.
That sounds neat! :)
It really is. It's $3500 I think because they take you out on a boat and drop the condensed ashes into the ocean. I love the water and it would make use of my remains. Win-win IMO. You can also have a plaque put in so family members who dive can visit.
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Another good article from the same site (too long to post in this thread): http://new.exchristian.net/2010/06/dear-christian-i-am-atheist.html
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Wha~!?
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Wow! that's deep
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I want a viking funeral!!!! Of ourse, Im not a viking, but it sounds REALLY COOL! :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
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Well, you have free will (a gift form God if you believe) the believe that this passage is brilliant.
To believe that this passage is based on facts; to believe that there are no facts that contradict this person's ramblings.
God created 'life, the universe and everything'.
Including man whom he gave free will. Some chose to stay, others turned to their own paths.
But that was their choice, the choice they we given.
As well as burying bodies (not in a cemetery setting) recycles material the earth needs; but it increases the danger of zombie uprisings.
That's why one of my friends works out like crazy--he want's to be the most dangerous and terrifying zombie, ever.
And oh yes! I love jesuschristsuperstore.com!
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Including man whom he gave free will. Some chose to stay, others turned to their own paths.
But that was their choice, the choice they we given.
I'm tired of this free will excuse. Believe in me or BURN is not a choice! That's some Adolf Hitler/Kim Il Sung/Saddam Hussein sh*t right there.
When a person asks a believer why a man was allowed to brutally murder and rape a little girl, what excuse to believers usually give? "Because god couldn't interrupt the man's free will." Hellllooo, what about the little girl's "free will"?! Don't you see that with that excuse, god favors a MURDERER'S free will over an innocent victim's. Ahem.
Why do you people pray then if you believe in god-given free will? Because to pray to change the course of events on your behalf is bound to interrupt someone else's free will!! Why do you think god interferes with the world at all, then, if he's supposed to let us all have our free will??
If you believe in some sort of loophole like, oh, god can interfere if he wants to and still mostly give us all free will...well then I ask you, why does god help someone like you, a cushy American, with the most mundane things in your spoiled life while ignoring starving children and parents in Africa who are FAR BETTER DEVOTED CHRISTIANS in terms of prayer and humility? Why does god throw us breadcrumbs in terms of solving the world's problems or for laughing matter, reveal himself in bread as a "miracle"?!
These are serious questions you need to ask yourselves, believers. What's more likely: that there is a god, but he's an incompetent jerk based on what we see in the world today or there is no god, and scientists have already largely discovered what are origins are?
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Another good comment from the original post:
"On the value of life without religion:
When I fully gave up on religion, I came to an almost immediate epiphany. Life is the MOST important thing imaginable. There is only THIS life. This is all there is. Life is short, yesterday is gone forever, and my tomorrows are dwindling fast. There are no do-overs and no ever-afters. This is not depressing, it's uplifting. It makes you want to get off your *bleep* and make the world a better place. It makes you want to enjoy everything to its fullest. Those "small pleasures" in life turn out to be incredible pleasures if you let them. But it's not all just fun and games. It makes you realize that everyone else's life is sacred, too. I mean, how can you sit there while someone else's one life, their ONE SHOT at existence is dominated by pain and suffering? When looking at it like this, you've got to help them. Right? If this life is all you've got, then you're compelled to make the most of it.
Religion belittles life. What is the value of life on the scale of eternity? It's nothing. Life is just a brief holding cell on your way to eternal freedom. What's the point of making a big fuss about it, really? You don't need to help other people, as long as they have Jesus, they'll get their big reward in heaven. And besides, if they were REALLY in trouble God would help them now, right? You don't have to do a damn thing! Just enjoy your small pleasures on earth while you wait for the big cake in the sky. Nothing on earth will ever compare with it. Life sucks compared to eternity in heaven!
On finding your path without religion:
You, and you alone, have the power to choose your path. Let that one sink in for a minute.... There is no cosmic plan for you. There is no possibility of you choosing the WRONG thing. The correct thing is whatever you want it to be. And if you don't like your first choice, you just pick again until you get it right. You can do whatever makes you happy. You don't have to worry about what you're SUPPOSED to be doing. Sometimes you'll fail. You own those failures; no one brought them upon you. But you'll also have success, and you'll own those successes, too. They'll be 100% fully yours, not gifts from god. When you succeed, it will be because of what YOU did. How joyful and empowering will that be? Even if it's the smallest success in the darkest part of life, like not shooting up for 24 hours, you'll have the knowledge that YOU alone accomplished it. You'll have the knowledge that YOU alone have all the power over your own life. You'll be empowered to succeed again and again.
Religion is self-deprecating. Anything you achieve is by the grace of God and all your failures are the result of your sinful nature. Whenever you get through a rough patch, it's because God helped you get through it. You never could've done it on your own. You're too weak. God is your strength. Put your trust in him. Everything happens for a reason and God will put you where he needs you. Listen to your heart and let God guide your path. If you can't hear him it's because you're not close enough to him. It's because you're too sinful. You keep failing because you won't give yourself over to Christ. Get right with God and everything will be fine. You are nothing compared to God. Let Jesus take the wheel. He knows what's best for you. You're just a sinful sheep lost in the wilderness."
~ by jwittenmyer
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People waste time fussing and arguing about religion that they could be using to make this world a better place. I believe there's a power greater than myself, but I don't obsess about it.
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People waste time fussing and arguing about religion that they could be using to make this world a better place. I believe there's a power greater than myself, but I don't obsess about it.
Is that not the purpose of a forum, to discuss? Is it not a good thing to help people learn and grow and pull them away from false beliefs? We NEED to argue against religion, lest we find ourselves in the Dark Ages again.
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Queen to start I commend you on this post it was brilliant..Why the hell is it always the most religious people who get the most offended??I swear WTF believe what you want and let others do the same..And STOP trying to convert those who do not want to be involved in your dribble..I have met more people who are not all god fearing and hmm they are more opened minded how the hell does that make sense??So your god is judgmental??Yesterday was flipping through channels found a kids god channel watched for a few I was disgusted they were talking about Jesus on the cross blood and water in a song HOW FRICKING SICK IS THAT??? If I was a child that would totally screw me up to think I killed him with my sins??Sins every person so called sins its called life.If I am going to so called hell fine so called heaven fine..But no one will tell me what to believe..Did you know that you are not suppose to pray to your so called God or say his name so umm in reality churches are wrong...And umm last time I checked a super being like God does not need money!! YOUR PREACHER DOES TO PAY HIS NICE FANCY CAR OFF!!Sorry queen having a morning lol..And I get so annoyed with pushy religious people..And if god or the devil was in my ear speaking A. its either my own voice and I chose to believe otherwise or two I need help cause I may have a multiple personality..Thats my opinion if you believe great just dont ram down my throat..Here is a screwy story I went to church for my mother in law and well I sat there listening and squirming to open my mouth lol..Then was asked if my kids are baptistized no I replied oh dear I got a earful..When I informed them I am non religious and I am wiccan holy *bleep* I was the devil..I was asked to leave because I followed Satans words..WTF All loving my *bleep* ..I watched my mother in law who lives on social security hand over a check for 100 bucks as we left her preacher gets in a brand new Benz while his followers drive beat up cars on their last legs..Wow what a great thing..Give the poor hope while you reap the benefits.. And when Hubby asks his mom for help on anything her reply is ask god he will help..Well god never came down with checks or help when we desperately needed it..And no no church would help cause I will not attend..Okay I am done !! Thanks Again Queen I love your posts!! :angel12: :wave: :peace: :heart:
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Butterfly's post
Glad you enjoyed it! It speaks the truth! If you get a chance, check out some of the other posts on that site (http://new.exchristian.net/).
As for these horrible believers that you've had to encounter...I actually think that is a good thing so that you may be exposed to their dirty lies. I'm going to say it outright even though it isn't politically correct to do so -- the Christians are wrong. Their Biblegod is a fake, and all it takes is a little education on the matter to prove that Christianity is a bunch of lies. Now believers will say, "Oh no, atheists are wrong, they just can't feel god's presence/the devil's got them/they're mad at god" -- people who say such things don't have a clue what they're talking about. They so desperately want to believe in this false hope of an afterlife that they're too scared to ask questions, do research, think critically...therefore, they can't see that they are wrong. As someone who has sincerely been on both sides of the fence (I was a Christian for 5 years), I can understand their mindset and how easy it is to not ask questions.
Basically what I am saying is that you don't have to worry about not baptizing your kids, heaven, hell, or god striking you down with lightning for committing some sin. I'd really encourage that you read the Bible, starting from page 1 all the way through, because it alone is enough to make someone a non-believer (how ironic ;) ). If you don't have time to read the whole thing and want crib notes, check out http://www.evilbible.com/. Also http://www.godisimaginary.com/ <== made me an atheist
I realize you say you are Wiccan but the sound of your post is that you think there may be some possibility that these bigots are right...I would really just encourage you not to ignore the negative experiences you've had and do lots of research on why the church is a fraud so that you may never have to be sucked in and deluded some day and waste the rest of your life! :thumbsup: Keep fighting the good fight! :wave:
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Thanks so much Queens you are very insightful..I really enjoy all your posts.. :notworthy: :thumbsup: :peace: :heart: And I will definitely check out the sites and as for believing in their lies nah I just cant believe how far gone these people will go over a book..Thanks for the Info and I will never stop the fight and you keep posting Girl!!Never let your wisdom be stifled.. :heart:
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All I can say is in my entire life, I have never encountered atheists that treated believers like this, it is very shocking. Such hostile people up in here.
Stop playing the hurt feelings card. It does not help your case like you think it does and you would still play the hurt feelings card no matter HOW we phrased things.
You think I am playing? Honestly the world would be a lot more peaceful....um, yeah 1000 years of peace, I am so ready!
LOL Took you this long to reply to that ? Or did you just delete all of your other replies?