FC Community
Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: 502mania on October 12, 2010, 12:54:23 pm
-
-Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12
-"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13
-A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27
-If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10
-They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21
-The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15
-Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10
-All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9
-
I don't know enough to dispute these or even give any kind of interpretation... but would definitely love to hear what some think or know or how they'd interpret them.
-
Those come from the Old Testament under the old law. After Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, the New Testament became the guidance. You should also study the New Testament in comparison.
-
I found many many sources which satisfactorily explain and interpret hard to understand or seemingly harsh old testament scriptures. I researched and compared resources, prayed, talked to God about the things I read and came away satisfied with the answers I received.
I don't think this is a search for answers but a reason to argue God's Word. When you are truly interested in answers, you won't be posting your questions on a random forum; but will be doing your own research into educated and qualified bible scholars materials.
-
I don't think this is a search for answers but a reason to argue God's Word. When you are truly interested in answers, you won't be posting your questions on a random forum; but will be doing your own research into educated and qualified bible scholars materials.
It is a search for answers, i'm not blatenly trying to argue the men-who-wrote-the-bible's word and this isn't a random forum. it's the only one i use because i like the intelligent people here. the rest of the forums are people talking *bleep* back and forth with 'yo mama' jokes and the like, not holding a real debate. Ive done a LOT of research, by the way.
Those come from the Old Testament under the old law. After Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, the New Testament became the guidance. You should also study the New Testament in comparison.
so the old testament isn't god's word? or god realized it was wrong to kill milions of people?
-
I suggest two things...first, don't read a single line by itself, but the surrounding scripture. Read different translations. Decide for yourself. I believe Sodom and Gomorrah was mis-interpreted because people haven't taken the time to read the entirety of the story, read the different translations, and think critically about it. I hold nothing against those who study and interpret it differently than I do, though.
Also, I really like the website http://www.religioustolerance.org It gives non-traditional and traditional interpretation of scripture. Again, read it and decide for yourself.
If I thought you were really interested and had really read the scripture, I would delve into it with you, but I don't think you are.
-
honestly, i haven't read the entire bible. i'm going to start tonight, i was going to earlier, but i had an unexpected job interview. As i read i will reflect in this forum. i'll tart a new topic on it when i start.
-
i'm not blatenly trying to argue the men-who-wrote-the-bible's word
Substituting my God's Word phrase for this one only shows your stubborn stance that the bible is everything you have previously stated. IF you are really going to read the bible and you are doing it with a sincere interest in finding out more about God then I suggest before you open it, you ask God to help you understand. Also use the resources available on Christian apologetics websites and online concordances. The apologetics websites will help you understand the historical time periods, and the concordances help with correct word translations.
I prayed for you last night and I will continue to do so because I see you are struggling in understanding, but I personally can't give you all the answers and no Christian here can. Every man must work out his own salvation and as a person grows spiritually their beliefs become more personal to them.
My walk with God is totally different than jcribbs or Annellas or Amy's. My convictions are different. It doesn't make me right and them wrong or vice versa...it mean's God has convicted me of something personally and it has nothing to do with them.
For example: My pastor and his wife do not wear jewelry, she doesn't wear make-up or pants, he doesn't grow a beard or grow his hair long.
I wear pants, make-up and jewelry and my husband has a goatee and up until recently had hair long enough to put in a rubber band.
Neither of us wrong, it's about our own personal place in spiritual growth.
I will continue to pray for you though that God give you revelation as you read the bible and also that His Holy Spirit reveal Himself to you. Would you mind if I prayed for you by name? It's okay if you don't, I can pray for you by your screen name; God will know who I'm talking about :)
-
Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 03:06:06 pm
Those come from the Old Testament under the old law. After Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, the New Testament became the guidance. You should also study the New Testament in comparison.
Quote from: 502mania:
so the old testament isn't god's word? or god realized it was wrong to kill milions of people?
No one said that, 502. The Old Testament was under the old law as I said. Jesus's birth, death, burial, and resurrection was/were the change of the old law. If you would study the New Testament, including Jesus's words (usually typed in red), then it will help you understand more the whole picture.
-
sherna, (and anyone else who wants to know), my name in "real life" is chase. not that this site isn't part of real life.
-
sherna, (and anyone else who wants to know), my name in "real life" is chase. not that this site isn't part of real life.
I :heart: your name.
thanks!
-
-Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12
The judges or priests are representatives of God's authority and to reject their decision was to reject God. Putting a person to death that was willfully disobedient to God's representatives was necessary to keep Israel from being contaminated by law breakers.
-"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13
There are different interpretations as to what kind of homosexual behavior this is referring to. Liberal Christians believe it refers to homosexual prostitution. The National Gay Pentecostal Alliance believes it is interpreted to mean that if two men lie together as with a woman in a woman's bed then it is an abomination.
As for being put to death. You have to remember that the OT scriptures were a covenant between man and God. The law that God gave them served as a civil state. There were crimes and there were punishment and these laws were meant to set them apart from all other nations.
-A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27
Mediums were, and still are believed by many Christians, to be communicating with the devil. In the bible there is no such thing as pergutory and once your spirit has left your body it does not inhabit the earth any longer. There is no communicating with the dead and a person who dabbled with such things were dealing with witchcraft.
With that in mind, once again...there was a crime committed and a punishment for the crime.
-If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10
I'm assuming your issue here is the seeming harshness of being put to death. Although the wife of the adulterous man might not think it very harsh lol.
As a whole the law in the OT was very strict, God's law was the law by which the Israelites were to live and function in their daily lives. The law does seem harsh by today's standards but these were a people set apart for a higher purpose. They time and time again failed to hold up to God's standards and even then God showed his mercy. David, whom the bible refers to being a man after God's own heart, was an adulterer and a murderer. Yet he loved God. Him being a man after God's own heart meant that he sought God in his life constantly. He messed up as every human being does but God still blessed him, he punished his bad behavior but he loved and blessed him because of his heart.
When you are reading the bible, why don't you try to see God's mercy to his people when they broke those laws. Look at the people that God chose to use to make a difference. Look at how God was preparing people to see the need for grace in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.
Chase....yes I like that name too!
-
You are on the right track with this thread here Lil Bro, now just look and see how many of the acts actually being carried out, its simply amazing especially when a vast number of such acts have occured in very modern times and in fact are still happening all over the globe.
Question.....the last 518 would certainly fall within the time frame of the New Testament, right?
-
marie you can post as many bs guys as you want, this is the reason mediums and the like were not tolerated in the bible.
-
was that really necessary marie?
-
(http://images.customsouthparks.com/4/3/8/2930b.png) (http://www.customsouthparks.com/)
Create your own south park character (http://www.customsouthparks.com/)
go to thissite for building your own (http://www.customsouthparks.com) i just got back from south park. LOL
-
well i wasn't trying to offend you marie but i won't apologize for what the bible says :-
-
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2llecyu.gif)
That was cool, thanks Chase! :thumbsup:
-
well i wasn't trying to offend you marie but i won't apologize for what the bible says :-
I will say it again, the bible is :bs: and that is why.
You are entitled to your opinion marie.
-
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2llecyu.gif)
That was cool, thanks Chase! :thumbsup:
No prob, thought you guys might like it.
-
Those come from the Old Testament under the old law. After Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, the New Testament became the guidance. You should also study the New Testament in comparison.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus himself in matthew 5:17
-
-Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12
-"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13
-A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27
-If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10
-They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21
-The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15
-Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10
-All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9
...this is RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE.....enjoy, my friend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNzIKoAy2pk
iiiiirrrooonnyyyyyy!
-
Those come from the Old Testament under the old law. After Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, the New Testament became the guidance. You should also study the New Testament in comparison.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus himself in matthew 5:17
Jesus was speaking of fulfilling that which was shadowed by the figure of the Law, by delivering men through grace from the curse of the Law, and to teach the true use of obedience which the Law appointed. He wants us to engrave, so to speak, the force of obedience in our hearts and actions. In that, the prophecies from the Old Testament would be accomplished. In Matthew 5, Jesus is actually giving the true meaning and use of the Law.
If you would also read 1 John, which is after 2 Peter, it goes into much of the new commandment that Jesus gives us and why.
-
I don't think this is a search for answers but a reason to argue God's Word. When you are truly interested in answers, you won't be posting your questions on a random forum; but will be doing your own research into educated and qualified bible scholars materials.
It is a search for answers, i'm not blatenly trying to argue the men-who-wrote-the-bible's word and this isn't a random forum. it's the only one i use because i like the intelligent people here. the rest of the forums are people talking *bleep* back and forth with 'yo mama' jokes and the like, not holding a real debate. Ive done a LOT of research, by the way.
Thats why I posted what I did. I actually like hearing what a few have to say on here, because of there knowledge on certain subjects.
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
If you really believe that critically reading the bible is enough to make a person not believe in God, then I'm surprised to see you so aggressively interjecting here. I would think you would be encouraging him to read it and wouldn't feel the need to "interpret" it for him.
But God has a plan and purpose for Chase and I'm confidant that he will find the path God has for him, regardless of you interjections. :)
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
If you really believe that critically reading the bible is enough to make a person not believe in God, then I'm surprised to see you so aggressively interjecting here. I would think you would be encouraging him to read it and wouldn't feel the need to "interpret" it for him.
But God has a plan and purpose for Chase and I'm confidant that he will find the path God has for him, regardless of you interjections. :)
AMEN!!!
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
If you really believe that critically reading the bible is enough to make a person not believe in God, then I'm surprised to see you so aggressively interjecting here. I would think you would be encouraging him to read it and wouldn't feel the need to "interpret" it for him.
But God has a plan and purpose for Chase and I'm confidant that he will find the path God has for him, regardless of you interjections. :)
Yeah like God has plans for everyone else, even burning in hell.
Marie, do you remember how upset and offended you would get when someone would say something to you about religion? Think about how much it bothered you when someone put you down or make a snarky comment about what you believed...and then remember that when replying to someone else about what they believe. :wave:
-
marie's statment rises questions to me. if god has a purpose for everyone, why does hell exist? and if he knows the future, why even allow the person that will do wrong in the world exist?
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
Whoa a minute..... chill out......... why in the world would it matter to you so much? Especially enough to YELL on here. Good grief - let him make up his own mind. You're letting it get to you way too much....
-
marie's statment rises questions to me. if god has a purpose for everyone, why does hell exist? and if he knows the future, why even allow the person that will do wrong in the world exist?
Keep reading that book, Chase. You'll find the answers...to either believe or not, agree or not. Its your ballgame, now. Read it and make your own decisions and interpretations. I know you haven't gotten to hell yet in the bible...so don't get ahead of yourself and keep reading!
-
marie's statment rises questions to me. if god has a purpose for everyone, why does hell exist? and if he knows the future, why even allow the person that will do wrong in the world exist?
Chase the websites I linked to talk about that. I don't know if you have looked at them yet but almost any question that has been asked in this forum, and by myself during my Christian experience is addressed there. But even a person who does wrong has a purpose. And really, we ALL do wrong. Hell exists for people who don't want to surrender their lives to God. They don't want Him, and they choose to live their life without Him.
God knows who will choose Him and who won't. But to suggest He not even create the ones who will reject Him is assuming things about God's character that are invalid for Christianity. And even the people who will go to hell because they didn't want God, will still serve a purpose in their life.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/destined.html
This particular page addresses this.
The page I linked to earlier is the main page that is indexed with many many other questions. If you haven't checked it out, please do. Even if you choose to reject what the writer is saying, I will at least know you are serious about finding answers.
-
I'm about to check the link you posted shern, but first let me ask you this. if god really sends people to hell, why create a life that will suffer? would you have a baby if you knew it would suffer his/her whole life?
-
Whoa a minute..... chill out......... why in the world would it matter to you so much? Especially enough to YELL on here. Good grief - let him make up his own mind. You're letting it get to you way too much....
And you criticizing the way I emphasize things is admirable? No, no it isn't. I realize sometimes I get carried away with the bolds and underlines and whatnot, but really all I'm trying to do is get people to see common sense.
It matters because you people actually BELIEVE in a god that mass murders people and MAKE EXCUSES FOR HIM, and I frankly do not want laypeople running around with an idea like that in their heads. It's dangerous.
And don't try to say that I'm "thinking" for 502. No, if you go back and read his first post, you'd realize I'm encouraging the critical thinking he's doing. He's on the right track. Believers on here, on the other hand, are the ones trying to talk 502 out of his sensible thinking by justifying/explaining away the horrible things Biblegod has done.
-
where hav youbeen QON?
-
Chase the websites I linked to talk about that. I don't know if you have looked at them yet but almost any question that has been asked in this forum, and by myself during my Christian experience is addressed there. But even a person who does wrong has a purpose. And really, we ALL do wrong. Hell exists for people who don't want to surrender their lives to God. They don't want Him, and they choose to live their life without Him.
God knows who will choose Him and who won't. But to suggest He not even create the ones who will reject Him is assuming things about God's character that are invalid for Christianity. And even the people who will go to hell because they didn't want God, will still serve a purpose in their life.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/destined.html
This particular page addresses this.
:thumbsup: Thank you for posting that link, Sherene!
-
Whoa a minute..... chill out......... why in the world would it matter to you so much? Especially enough to YELL on here. Good grief - let him make up his own mind. You're letting it get to you way too much....
And you criticizing the way I emphasize things is admirable? No, no it isn't. I realize sometimes I get carried away with the bolds and underlines and whatnot, but really all I'm trying to do is get people to see common sense.
It matters because you people actually BELIEVE in a god that mass murders people and MAKE EXCUSES FOR HIM, and I frankly do not want laypeople running around with an idea like that in their heads. It's dangerous.
And don't try to say that I'm "thinking" for 502. No, if you go back and read his first post, you'd realize I'm encouraging the critical thinking he's doing. He's on the right track. Believers on here, on the other hand, are the ones trying to talk 502 out of his sensible thinking by justifying/explaining away the horrible things Biblegod has done.
I am so sorry for you and your not seeing reason here. The bottom line is it's his business not yours. He's being given info by both sides. No one has yelled about it but you. I have to wonder if your particular beliefs are the dangerous ones. I would, as a non-christian searching for answers, be freaked out by your odd ways of trying to scare people away from God.
-
I'm about to check the link you posted shern, but first let me ask you this. if god really sends people to hell, why create a life that will suffer? would you have a baby if you knew it would suffer his/her whole life?
If I had the foreknowledge of my children's lives I would see much more than just their suffering. I would see the purpose in it. Just like God saw the purpose in my own sufferings when I couldn't. Just like He continues to see past my current sufferings and I make it through my day with joy and peace despite the storm I have to go through, because of hope.
-
I'm about to check the link you posted shern, but first let me ask you this. if god really sends people to hell, why create a life that will suffer? would you have a baby if you knew it would suffer his/her whole life?
If I had the foreknowledge of my children's lives I would see much more than just their suffering. I would see the purpose in it. Just like God saw the purpose in my own sufferings when I couldn't. Just like He continues to see past my current sufferings and I make it through my day with joy and peace despite the storm I have to go through, because of hope.
That is a really mature way of looking at that. :)
-
I also believe he will find his way. His desire to even learn more is not ignored by God. He has been presented both sides, and the choice is his like Jcribb or Sherene said.
author=queenofnines link=topic=20004.msg253773#msg253773 date=1287013903]
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
qon, there you go again justifying how you post to people, when in all honesty it's rude and abrasive. Bold caps is yelling in any posting. Everybody knows that.
-
Stick to your guns, 502 -- god ordering people to commit horrific genocide and mass murdering a sh*tton of people himself IS NOT OKAY. Never was, never will be.
God's murders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKWIMYK_x0
If you really believe that critically reading the bible is enough to make a person not believe in God, then I'm surprised to see you so aggressively interjecting here. I would think you would be encouraging him to read it and wouldn't feel the need to "interpret" it for him.
But God has a plan and purpose for Chase and I'm confidant that he will find the path God has for him, regardless of you interjections. :)
Yeah like God has plans for everyone else, even burning in hell.
Marie, do you remember how upset and offended you would get when someone would say something to you about religion? Think about how much it bothered you when someone put you down or make a snarky comment about what you believed...and then remember that when replying to someone else about what they believe. :wave:
Thank you Amy :heart:
-
Bold caps is yelling in any posting. Everybody knows that.
Yes, let's all jump on a font style and completely ignore the truthful point I was making. That's what Christians do best -- distract from the issue.
-
P.S. Quoting it multiple times only keeps my irrefutable point alive and visible for any audience lurkers. So good job! lol
-
Bold caps is yelling in any posting. Everybody knows that.
Yes, let's all jump on a font style and completely ignore the truthful point I was making. That's what Christians do best -- distract from the issue.
Really? Looks like the Christians on here gave some very explanatory answers on the the issues at hand. None of them distracted from the issues at all. Or do you mean your issues? However, your point as being "truthful" may be something they may feel to distract from though. You don't expect Christians to agree with you do you? ::)
-
Christians would rather believe in a God that sends people to hell... :thumbsup: good job at scaring the crap out of people.
When presented differently, patiently, lovingly, etc., it's a lot more different than qon's post scaring the tar of people herself, including yelling.
-
You need to read maybe the whole chapter to be able to understand these verses, there ate some background warnings, rules, laws, n instructions before leading to these.
-
Christians would rather believe in a God that sends people to hell... :thumbsup: good job at scaring the crap out of people.
When presented differently, patiently, lovingly, etc., it's a lot more different than qon's post scaring the tar of people herself, including yelling.
Are you freaking serious??? Jcribb, are you freaking serious??? You are so far off the deep end if you think an eternity of horrendous suffering is anywhere equal to my "shouting" a point. I'm sorry, but your passe statement makes me very angry. You really need to wake up and THINK about the fate your religion is condemning me to.
Crying, pain, torture, anguish, depression, sadness, scars, agony, aching, affliction, burning, convulsions, cramps, discomfort, distress, fever, gripe, hurt, illness, injury, irritation, lacerations, maladies, misery, pangs, pricks, sickness, soreness, spasms, stings, stitches, strains, tenderness, torment, trouble, wounds, annoyance, bites, chafing, constraint, grieving, harassment, harm, punishment, stress, suffering, worry, fire...
FOREVER
Simply for using my brain and finding Christianity's claims hard to believe.
I think you all don't really believe it. Otherwise you would be desperate to ensure the people you care about don't go there. To do anything but that - to say you personally don't have to worry or think about hell while still holding the belief that it exists - is selfish and sick beyond measure.
-
QO9s brings up a good point. sffering for eternity sdose't compare to abou 10 seconds of shoutin to make a point. god killed every living thing on earth to make a point in the bible. that makes Hitler look like a lightweight.
-
Queenofnines, you, angry? Why? You always get on to me when I am offended, upset, angry, etc., and say you "can't understand" why I would be any of those things. So, right back at ya!
You are only focusing on the other side of the coin. God is a loving God and would love for people to make the "right" choices. But this is not a perfect world of "right" choices 100% of the time. And in one respect you are right: I am "desperate" that my loved ones, friends, etc. won't have to go to hell either, and by them accepting Christ, they won't go to the everlasting place of punishment. Yes, it is very serious about heaven/hell. That's why it's so important to get right with Christ.
"tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience; faith, hope, charity; strong in the Lord; righteousness, peace"
I like this saying that I saw in a "Top Bible Verses" site: "Trust the Good Shepherd and live boldly, or trust yourself and live in fear."
-
Christians would rather believe in a God that sends people to hell... :thumbsup: good job at scaring the crap out of people.
When presented differently, patiently, lovingly, etc., it's a lot more different than qon's post scaring the tar of people herself, including yelling.
Are you freaking serious??? Jcribb, are you freaking serious??? You are so far off the deep end if you think an eternity of horrendous suffering is anywhere equal to my "shouting" a point. I'm sorry, but your passe statement makes me very angry. You really need to wake up and THINK about the fate your religion is condemning me to.
Crying, pain, torture, anguish, depression, sadness, scars, agony, aching, affliction, burning, convulsions, cramps, discomfort, distress, fever, gripe, hurt, illness, injury, irritation, lacerations, maladies, misery, pangs, pricks, sickness, soreness, spasms, stings, stitches, strains, tenderness, torment, trouble, wounds, annoyance, bites, chafing, constraint, grieving, harassment, harm, punishment, stress, suffering, worry, fire...
FOREVER
Simply for using my brain and finding Christianity's claims hard to believe.
I think you all don't really believe it. Otherwise you would be desperate to ensure the people you care about don't go there. To do anything but that - to say you personally don't have to worry or think about hell while still holding the belief that it exists - is selfish and sick beyond measure.
What do think we've been doing on this forum? Why do we spread the good news? Of course we care. Because we DON'T want people to go there! Your leaving out one thing here qon, if you make the choice. Everybody has a choice to believe it or not. You chose not to believe the saving power of Salvation. That is not our fault. That is your decision.
Everyone will stand for themselves on that day. There is a scripture that says behold the Goodness, and the Severity of God. He is a loving God (goodness), but there are consequences to our sin (severity). the material gets presented, but after that, it's freedom of choice. We can pray and try to lead to a better way.....but you chose.
You can't get mad at Jcribb because she tells the truth. Well, you can, and you have, but your anger is misguided.
-
You can't get mad at Jcribb because she tells the truth. Well, you can, and you have, but your anger is misguided.
My anger is misguided? You believe in a religion that will eternally torture anyone who's not a member. That means in 100 years when everyone who is currently alive is dead, 4 billion of us will be in hell. 4 BILLION.
Set aside these excuses of it being a "choice" for a minute; do you, Annella, do you, Jcribb, think I deserve to be tortured forever?
-
You can't get mad at Jcribb because she tells the truth. Well, you can, and you have, but your anger is misguided.
My anger is misguided? You believe in a religion that will eternally torture anyone who's not a member. That means in 100 years when everyone who is currently alive is dead, 4 billion of us will be in hell. 4 BILLION.
Set aside these excuses of it being a "choice" for a minute; do you, Annella, do you, Jcribb, think I deserve to be tortured forever?
queen, I absolutely do not want you to be tortured forever, especially since I've gotten to know you through this forum. When you said you had accepted Christ once (and since then you say you don't), and if you were genuine in your heart about it at the time, then you are already going to heaven. For that, I am sincerely relieved and happy that you would be.
-
You can't get mad at Jcribb because she tells the truth. Well, you can, and you have, but your anger is misguided.
My anger is misguided? You believe in a religion that will eternally torture anyone who's not a member. That means in 100 years when everyone who is currently alive is dead, 4 billion of us will be in hell. 4 BILLION.
Set aside these excuses of it being a "choice" for a minute; do you, Annella, do you, Jcribb, think I deserve to be tortured forever?
I'm not your Judge qon. I would want to see you with us in Heaven.....and I mean that. Being a choice is not an excuse.....it's fact. I must adhere to the Word of God, and if you neglect this great Salvation that was prepared for you, there is a punishment (separation from God). The Bible says some men's sins go before them (remitted and put under the blood of Jesus), and some men's sins go after them (not remitted, and must be faced on Judgement).
I do know that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. If we go there, we go as an intruder, as it was never meant to be our future destination (humanity).
-
QO9s brings up a good point. sffering for eternity sdose't compare to abou 10 seconds of shoutin to make a point. god killed every living thing on earth to make a point in the bible. that makes Hitler look like a lightweight.
God never killed every living thing on the earth. And the judgment He passed was due to rampant sin. Hitler tortured people in concentration camps, he publicly ridiculed and shamed them, he despised Jews and Christians with pure hatred.
God hates sin, not people.
-
Seeing those passages, I recoil in horror from any religion that has any literal belief in the merciless violence these verses advocate. After all the bombings, stonings, and beheadings being done in the name of some religion or other, I have no use for anyone who makes any rationalization for such disgusting stuff. Good people nurture and forgive.
-
God never killed every living thing on the earth. And the judgment He passed was due to rampant sin. Hitler tortured people in concentration camps, he publicly ridiculed and shamed them, he despised Jews and Christians with pure hatred.
God hates sin, not people.
GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history. Direct quote from my bible - "and, behold, i, even i, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy ALL flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and every thing that is in the earth shall die" - Genesis 6:17
-
EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt. god also killed innocent babies
-
God never killed every living thing on the earth. And the judgment He passed was due to rampant sin. Hitler tortured people in concentration camps, he publicly ridiculed and shamed them, he despised Jews and Christians with pure hatred.
God hates sin, not people.
GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history. Direct quote from my bible - "and, behold, i, even i, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy ALL flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and every thing that is in the earth shall die" - Genesis 6:17
God did not kill Noah and his family, they are included among people that were considered to be living. That's why I said God never killed all living things on the earth.
Read this and tell me what you think:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html
-
EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt. god also killed innocent babies
For one thing babies are not innocent. The bible says we are all born sinful. Secondly, God doesn't see death the way we do. The death of a child simply means to be with God sooner. I don't consider that a bad thing. I would be sad if I lost my children but it would be for solely selfish reasons. Quite frankly, I'm more concerned about them growing up in the world we live in!
Read this and tell me what you think:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/killergod.html
-
dosen't psalms 104 refer to a completely different time period? and is that supposed to mean god didn't kill every 'living and breathing thing" as he said?
-
quote from the webpage regarding the children - "we cannot keep all of God's laws because of our selfishness and self-centeredness" - didn't he create us that way? my metaphor - isn't that like training a dog to fetch and punishing him when he fetches? i'm still reading both, i'm just posting questions as they rise.
-
dosen't psalms 104 refer to a completely different time period? and is that supposed to mean god didn't kill every 'living and breathing thing" as he said?
Psalm 104 is the known as the "creation" psalm. It coincides with Genesis creation. We know the earth was once completely covered in water, it states You set a boundary they [the waters] cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth." (Psalm 104:9)1 Obviously, if the waters never again covered the earth, then the flood must have been local. Psalm 104 is just one of several creation passages that indicate that God prevented the seas from covering the entire earth
And when reading the words ALL and EARTH in the flood account, you have to look at the original Hebrew and the correct interpretation. I'm sure as you read down the page you will get a better understanding of what the writer is getting across.
quote from the webpage regarding the children - "we cannot keep all of God's laws because of our selfishness and self-centeredness" - didn't he create us that way? my metaphor - isn't that like training a dog to fetch and punishing him when he fetches? i'm still reading both, i'm just posting questions as they rise.
He did create us that way, He didn't want perfect robots. By the way, God didn't teach us to sin "fetch" it is the sinful nature. I am a sinner, but through grace I don't have to feel guilt every time I mess up. I know God loves me and forgave me. It gives me the strength to continue, and the joy to live my life without constant condemnation.
This is addressed on the issue about why God created the devil and Adam and Eve knowing they would sin.
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
-
He almost killed everything on the planet in the flood....
Not to mention nearly ALL of the vegetation would have been destroyed when they got off the boat. How did the millions of animals not starve? Did they all eat the dinosaurs and that's why they're now extinct? lol
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
I am surprised you have not gotten an answer to this yet, just looked at how long it has been since you posted it. Thinking about it though, I shouldn't be 'surprised' now should I? Without using the standard pool of answers ie the Bible says, it might not be answered. That takes some out-of-the-box thinking and that's definitely not something I see from one person you asked. It's hard to be the lone sheep bold enough to venture from the flock. If I was a betting person, my money would be on finding jcribb in the other field though. She has shown an ability to disengage from the party line at times. That is intended as a compliment, jcribb, even if not seen or taken as one. ;)
-
I am surprised you have not gotten an answer to this yet, just looked at how long it has been since you posted it. Thinking about it though, I shouldn't be 'surprised' now should I?
I know I didn't think about hell much when I was a Christian. I think it's all too easy to ignore this horrific aspect of many religions, or assume - as in the case of my husband's Mormon parents - that an atheist will "find their way" a few years down the line, and so they don't have to concern themselves with their child burning forever for the time being.
Any good/sane person who seriously wraps their brain around the connotations of hell cannot remain a believer.
-
Video that directly relates to my question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0_7vKFAx6Q&feature=related
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
I am surprised you have not gotten an answer to this yet, just looked at how long it has been since you posted it. Thinking about it though, I shouldn't be 'surprised' now should I? Without using the standard pool of answers ie the Bible says, it might not be answered. That takes some out-of-the-box thinking and that's definitely not something I see from one person you asked. It's hard to be the lone sheep bold enough to venture from the flock. If I was a betting person, my money would be on finding jcribb in the other field though. She has shown an ability to disengage from the party line at times. That is intended as a compliment, jcribb, even if not seen or taken as one. ;)
I don't usually work on Fridays but was called in today to substitute. I just got home and am actually reading things on the forum now. I will answer as soon as I can. I'm just reading through right now, not ignoring anyone. Thanks! :wave:
-
He almost killed everything on the planet in the flood....
Not to mention nearly ALL of the vegetation would have been destroyed when they got off the boat. How did the millions of animals not starve? Did they all eat the dinosaurs and that's why they're now extinct? lol
Nearly all the vegetation wasn't destroyed. We already talked about why it was a local flood. We already talked about how dinosaurs were created and extinct before man, but you continue to ignore old earth creation and local flood theory so you can continue to mock.
-
Old Earth Creation:
So 15 billion years ago, god starts a universe.
Hit sits around for 10 BILLION years and then finally creates Earth.
He sits around for another 4 BILLION years before finally creating modern man.
Then he waits 198,000 years to send himself to die on a cross.
Sorry, not buying it.
-
Old Earth Creation:
So 15 billion years ago, god starts a universe.
Hit sits around for 10 BILLION years and then finally creates Earth.
He sits around for another 4 BILLION years before finally creating modern man.
Then he waits 198,000 years to send himself to die on a cross.
Sorry, not buying it.
You're forgetting that time does not exist for God that way. But you don't have to believe it, you can stop using beliefs from young earth creation to make a point while ignoring old earth creation when it suits you.
-
You're forgetting that time does not exist for God that way.
How does it exist for him, then? If it's been scientifically demonstrated that the universe is ~14 billion years old and the earth is 4.5 billion...is that just an illusion, or what?
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
I will attempt to answer your question as honestly and biblically as I can.
1. People who have issues and questions with the fact and reality of hell don't realize that their issue lies with Christ Himself.
2. Jesus taught about hell in that we should be willing to give up anything, that comes between Him and us, and accept Him as Lord so we can
spend eternity with Him in heaven. We all sin and until any one person acknowledges Him personally, that person is not exempt or free from the
wrath of God. Even children are born with a sin nature and will become sinners by choice.
3. "And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior." Those who do will spend eternity in hell. I'm not saying that I like
this or even agree with this, BUT, God created the earth and the heaven and mankind. He made the rules and the consequences and it's not up to me to say you deserve to go to hell because you won't accept Him. I am saying that if you choose to not accept Him, then unfortunately you made your choice to now spend eternity in hell.
4. This quote says it better that I can: " The Bible says that God prepared hell for the devil and his demonic cohorts (Matthew 25:41), that He is "...not wishing for any [person] to perish but for all to come to repentance." (II Peter 3:9), and that He has done everything possible to save us from that terrible, terrible place. Yet in the end God will not violate or overrule the deliberate choice of those who consciously and willfully turn away from Him."
—Daryl E. Witmer of AIIA Institute
Added to that: "Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God."
To sum up, I am not your judge and I am not happy that you won't accept Him. All I can do is pray for you (whether you like it or not), answer as honestly as I can and show proof in whatever way I can. It's up to you and you only, not me, not your family and/or friends, and above all, not God.
I used some information and helps from http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
I am surprised you have not gotten an answer to this yet, just looked at how long it has been since you posted it. Thinking about it though, I shouldn't be 'surprised' now should I? Without using the standard pool of answers ie the Bible says, it might not be answered. That takes some out-of-the-box thinking and that's definitely not something I see from one person you asked. It's hard to be the lone sheep bold enough to venture from the flock. If I was a betting person, my money would be on finding jcribb in the other field though. She has shown an ability to disengage from the party line at times. That is intended as a compliment, jcribb, even if not seen or taken as one. ;)
For one thing, I don't live on this forum. I just got on after a very busy morning (and afternoon). The question is not being ignored, as there is no other answer that I can give. I'm not the Judge. I believe the Bible addresses this as I wrote before. As far as your effort to "bait" me jordandog. Your problem seems to be me in particular, and that's glaringly evident. However, I'm not going to go against the Bible in no way shape or form.
I've already stated what is written Biblically, and how I perceive it. If you keep on asking the same questions in a different way......sorry, it's still the same answer. I'm not changing my answer, or sugar coating it for anybody.
Here's something else, I don't believe once saved, always saved. There are to many scriptures to indicate otherwise. Especially after you've turned your back on it. My main question is if qon was actually a Christian before, according to the plan of Salvation in the Bible. If not, she hasn't denounced anything as someone not coming to the full knowledge of Christ, and can be redeemed. Anybody can for that matter. A Reprobate cannot, and is another situation all together.
Now....some of you don't like how I post things. I'm not sorry for the Word of God and how I follow it. Someday I will give account of how I preached/taught it. Giving an answer to you, and getting "blasted for it" makes no difference to me, as you will not Judge me. You will always know how I stand, and no name calling or posting negative innuendos, etc., is NOT going to change my walk with God, or change any stance that's written in the Word because you find it hard to swallow. I take the Bible quite literally, and do not look for loopholes. There are times I study something out completely and come out with a better understanding, but the Bible is written with main points (Salvation) covered so anyone can understand it.
Here's my question? Since you don't believe the Bible, or that there is a God, why is this important to you, except to "bait" anyone that's a Christian, so you can belittle them. I said before.....arguing the Bible will not be acceptable.
-
You're forgetting that time does not exist for God that way.
How does it exist for him, then? If it's been scientifically demonstrated that the universe is ~14 billion years old and the earth is 4.5 billion...is that just an illusion, or what?
No, it's not an illusion. God is infinite, He didn't begin to exist so He has no beginning and no end. The earth has a beginning and therefore we have perception of time that is finite and measured.
We perceive time as linear. You were born and thus begins your timeline, when you die, your timeline stops. For God it is not a line, it is a circle in which He is in the middle and is touching all points in time at the same time. That is how He can be omnipresent.
Also have you ever thought about the stars you see that are billions of light years away? By the time you see it, by the time the light reaches you, it has already existed for billions of years? Time is relative.
There was an experiment done that I read about, it was reported in the journal Science by scientists Hafele and Keating of WA University and the U.S Naval Observatory. I read about it in a book by physicist Gerald Schroader Ph.D.
Hafele and Keating sent four cesium-beam clocks on around the world trips aboard commercial, scheduled TWA and Pan Am flights using Boeing 707 and Concorde aircraft. Cesium-beam clocks were used because of their extreme precision.
The Earth rotates from west to east. Viewing the Earth from space high above the north pole, we see that on the eastward flight, the speed of the plane added to the speed of the Earth. As predicted by relativity, the flying clocks lost time relative to cesium-beam clocks stationed at the U.S. Naval Observatory in D.C. (the source of all the clocks in this study.) On the westward flight, the speed of the plane subtracted from the Earth's rotation and the clocks, as predicted, gained time.
Not just the sensation of time, but the actuality of time's passage changes in accord with the relative motion of the observers. Within each of the given reference frames all seems natural. But when the frames come together and the clocks are compared, the passage of time, the actual aging, is seen to have been different.
-
Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it. It's a yes or no question.
Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion? Yes or no. Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?
I will attempt to answer your question as honestly and biblically as I can.
1. People who have issues and questions with the fact and reality of hell don't realize that their issue lies with Christ Himself.
2. Jesus taught about hell in that we should be willing to give up anything, that comes between Him and us, and accept Him as Lord so we can
spend eternity with Him in heaven. We all sin and until any one person acknowledges Him personally, that person is not exempt or free from the
wrath of God. Even children are born with a sin nature and will become sinners by choice.
3. "And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior." Those who do will spend eternity in hell. I'm not saying that I like
this or even agree with this, BUT, God created the earth and the heaven and mankind. He made the rules and the consequences and it's not up to me to say you deserve to go to hell because you won't accept Him. I am saying that if you choose to not accept Him, then unfortunately you made your choice to now spend eternity in hell.
4. This quote says it better that I can: " The Bible says that God prepared hell for the devil and his demonic cohorts (Matthew 25:41), that He is "...not wishing for any [person] to perish but for all to come to repentance." (II Peter 3:9), and that He has done everything possible to save us from that terrible, terrible place. Yet in the end God will not violate or overrule the deliberate choice of those who consciously and willfully turn away from Him."
—Daryl E. Witmer of AIIA Institute
Added to that: "Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God."
To sum up, I am not your judge and I am not happy that you won't accept Him. All I can do is pray for you (whether you like it or not), answer as honestly as I can and show proof in whatever way I can. It's up to you and you only, not me, not your family and/or friends, and above all, not God.
I used some information and helps from http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
I didn't have time to read your post Jcribb before posting mine. I agree wholeheartedly.
Your #3 though....for me, if it's Biblical...I do agree with it. Liking it is another thing. However, on that day of Judgment, we will have gloried bodies, and will have the whole mind of Christ and his understanding. Now, we see through a glass darkly. Also, He told us that our thoughts are not His thoughts, and our ways are not His ways. As high as the heavens are from the earth.....our thoughts with God's are different on this earth. We can't see into men's hearts like God can. Trying to explain some things with pure understanding is sometimes next to impossible. However, the Just shall live by Faith. We have Faith in His Word, and who He is. We don't have to knit pick apart everything. We believe that God is a Just God, and in His wisdom He is fair.
We are bound by earth, and our timeline and dispensation. Someday we WILL understand as He does.
-
Annella, regarding #3, I am going to quote what this site pointed out regarding this remark:
"Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.
This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.
You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
-
Annella, regarding #3, I am going to quote what this site pointed out regarding this remark:
"Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.
This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.
You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
How right you are!!! :heart: I have another meeting at my house in 20 minutes and must make some iced tea.....later dear heart.
-
That was a really good explanation jcribb.
The way I see it is, it's not about deserving hell or not. It's about a choice. If I make a choice to invest money in a certain stock and end up losing everything.....did I deserve it? Not necessarily, but I made a choice and suffered the consequences of the risk I took. Now granted losing all your money is mild compared to where you spend eternity but it's the comparison of making a choice and having the result of that choice be handed down.
Someone who has been presented with the gospel and understands it, either accepts it or rejects it. The act of rejection is the choice they make to not spend eternity with the One they rejected. Every man is judged according to what he knows.
-
That was a really good explanation jcribb.
The way I see it is, it's not about deserving hell or not. It's about a choice. If I make a choice to invest money in a certain stock and end up losing everything.....did I deserve it? Not necessarily, but I made a choice and suffered the consequences of the risk I took. Now granted losing all your money is mild compared to where you spend eternity but it's the comparison of making a choice and having the result of that choice be handed down.
Someone who has been presented with the gospel and understands it, either accepts it or rejects it. The act of rejection is the choice they make to not spend eternity with the One they rejected. Every man is judged according to what he knows.
Great summation and example given. :thumbsup:
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.
-
Even some things in the New Testament can be pointed out as strictly customary of the time, assuming a God that believes in an overall morality, some things (mainly those that go directly against morality (such as killing, 10 commandments, ect.)) can be possibly considered not divine providence.
-
When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things. All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.
In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God. Every word, nuance, everything. It will play like a tape recorder in your mind. You will remember everything. However, you won't be able to do anything about it because it will be to late, and your forever separated from God, and He won't hear you.
I have scripture to back up both of these statements if your interested.......
-
Wow, so if my mom goes to hell, I won't remember her... :angry7:
God sounds worse by the minute...good thing this is all made up.
Your certainly entitled to your opinion.
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.
Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?
-
When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things. All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.
So you DO admit lobotomies are required in heaven! WOW...how can you say that it is *you* at all in heaven, then, if you have "no memory of former things"? You're going to be a mindless zombie incapable of free will or thought to be "at peace" in heaven - funny because that's exactly what you claim god DOESN'T want here on Earth!
In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God. Every word, nuance, everything. It will play like a tape recorder in your mind. You will remember everything.
Hmm, that's interesting, considering the main definition of death is when your brain no longer works. And I don't know about you, but my brain stores all of my memories. Hmm...
Y'all know magic isn't really real, right? Because that's what required to believe in any of this nonsense.
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.
Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
-
When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things. All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.
So you DO admit lobotomies are required in heaven! WOW...how can you say that it is *you* at all in heaven, then, if you have "no memory of former things"? You're going to be a mindless zombie incapable of free will or thought to be "at peace" in heaven - funny because that's exactly what you claim god DOESN'T want here on Earth!
In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God. Every word, nuance, everything. It will play like a tape recorder in your mind. You will remember everything.
Hmm, that's interesting, considering the main definition of death is when your brain no longer works. And I don't know about you, but my brain stores all of my memories. Hmm...
Y'all know magic isn't really real, right? Because that's what required to believe in any of this nonsense.
Oh, I expect to go there, if that is what you were referring to (you). Also, your entitled to your opinion.
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.
Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
Excellent!
-
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!! According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists. That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.
No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.
Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
Excellent!
Thanks! It's tough answering hard questions when you want to try and give right answers that satisfy (or hopefully partially satisfy) what they want to know (or hear) and at the same time making sure the answer is given in the correct biblical aspect for what we believe, as well as saying it correctly.
-
I have no idea what the space science lesson was for, but no one person is insignificant to God. Only people devalue human life or purpose. However Marieelissa, you do keep me amused.
Have a good rest of your week-end....I'm certainly going to. :wave:
-
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
So according to this, denying christ is worse than murder, rape, incest, etc.? seriously?
-
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
So according to this, denying christ is worse than murder, rape, incest, etc.? seriously?
Chase, you've been told before, it does no good to ask a question, receive the answer, and then turn around and ask the same question. This is redundant, and repetitive. Jcribb gave you an excellent answer. I see you do this on other threads also. You'll ask the same question over and over after getting the best answers over and over. Makes me wonder if you really want the answers, or your just jerking people's chain. ???
You have been given pertinent information, and then there comes a time when you "search" out your own answers to that information you received. It's obvious to all who read your posts......and the answering posts to your questions, that you don't actually read the answers, and then do any type of study or reading on it yourself. If you did, you would not keep parroting the same questions over and over.
You have been given pages of information to filter through and look into on your own, including websites, that's obvious you have not visited.
-
anella, jcribb said
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
an then quoted scripture when i asked if murder, rape, etc. was not as bad as denying christ. honestly do you guys believe that?
-
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
Do you remember what Jcribb wrote you above with the website she provided? Clear indication you did not read it.
It's easy to miss something while everyone is posting. This is an excellent answer to your question, and a website that gives good information. Sherene has even said she will sometimes Google a subject, and up pops a lot of websites and information that she can use. Instead of taking the defensive and asking the same questions over and over, go do some research on your own. That's how you actually learn different sides of a debate, or just for your own gathering of knowledge.
Of course if you have a valid Biblical question, there are those on here who are happy to answer it, and point you to their source. However, once they've done that, it's really up to you to search out that answer for yourself. That way......you get it in your own understanding.
-
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.
Do you remember what Jcribb wrote you above with the website she provided? Clear indication you did not read it.
It's easy to miss something while everyone is posting. This is an excellent answer to your question, and a website that gives good information. Sherene has even said she will sometimes Google a subject, and up pops a lot of websites and information that she can use. Instead of taking the defensive and asking the same questions over and over, go do some research on your own. That's how you actually learn different sides of a debate, or just for your own gathering of knowledge.
Of course if you have a valid Biblical question, there are those on here who are happy to answer it, and point you to their source. However, once they've done that, it's really up to you to search out that answer for yourself. That way......you get it in your own understanding.
Thanks, Annella. There's really nothing more we can say until he chooses to do his own research. :heart:
-
anella, jcribb said
We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.
an then quoted scripture when i asked if murder, rape, etc. was not as bad as denying christ. honestly do you guys believe that?
I believe that there is no sin that can separate you from the love of God, there is no sin that is not forgivable, but by rejecting Him; you are separating yourself from Him by choice. You are still loved, but you chose to reject that love.
Everyone sins, people who call on God to save them are forgiven. People who don't, are sinners without God and have made a choice to be separated from Him. It's not about murder and rape being worse than rejecting Christ, it's that rejecting Christ is what saves people no matter what they have done. Being good doesn't save you. No one can be good enough to deserve God's grace. It's a gift that you have to accept or reject.
-
truthfully, i appreciate the anwers. but i ask unbiased questions and get biased answers. all of these answers take the side of christianity or another religion. you all have said "this is from the old testament". well, either god made a mistake (which indicates he isn't GOD just a higher being), or god changed his/her/it's mind about he murdering, but not slavey. it even appeas i the new testament. now seriously, is slavery rght? NO. we know that. can it be justified? yes, if you rationalize direct quotes from the bible. It seems you guys think i'm being antagonistic. I'm not. i don't mean to sound as such.
-
truthfully, i appreciate the anwers. but i ask unbiased questions and get biased answers. all of these answers take the side of christianity or another religion. you all have said "this is from the old testament". well, either god made a mistake (which indicates he isn't GOD just a higher being), or god changed his/her/it's mind about he murdering, but not slavey. it even appeas i the new testament. now seriously, is slavery rght? NO. we know that. can it be justified? yes, if you rationalize direct quotes from the bible. It seems you guys think i'm being antagonistic. I'm not. i don't mean to sound as such.
No one can tell you what you "must" choose. That's up to you. Your post has some of the SAME questions as before. I'll have to say that some of your questions are biased, and it seems to me sometimes you don't read the answers until your back around asking the same questions. You've been presented with both sides, now the ball is in your court. We will not "force" you into Christianity, it's a free will choice. If these answers are taking the side of Christianity, and you want a different answer, then why ask Christians? Your posts go in a circle that you put yourself in. Only you can break yourself out of it. I've seen you parrot queen of nines and her atheist stance, because at the time that's what you choose to believe? I don't know. You actually have to choose where you stand....nobody can do that for you. We will pray for you and hope you find what your looking for. God Bless
-
502, I am sorry if you think some of our answers are biased. You have received information from Christians, non-christians, and atheists in these threads. It really is up to you to do some research and even speak with pastors and/or scientists on the outside that can specifically answer your questions (also from a Christian point of view and/or from a scientific point of view.) My hope for you, of course, would be to choose God. However, I am not pushing you toward that and I am not going to make remarks to put you on any kind of guilt trip. I'm also not going to give you a bunch of nonsensical rantings. You need to make up your own mind which direction you want to go. I wish for you in whatever you choose, nothing but peace of mind and heart for you.
-
I've seen you parrot queen of nines and her atheist stance, because at the time that's what you choose to believe?
WOW. I think it's pretty obvious, 502, that this woman should not be trusted. She'll insult anyone that disagrees with her under the cover of passive aggression, while simultaneously playing the victim card.
-
I've seen you parrot queen of nines and her atheist stance, because at the time that's what you choose to believe?
WOW. I think it's pretty obvious, 502, that this woman should not be trusted. She'll insult anyone that disagrees with her under the cover of passive aggression, while simultaneously playing the victim card.
Oh, I think he's a smart cookie, and sees through most what's going on here qon.....good try though. Funny, I never thought of myself as a victim....absurd! Since it was put to him as a question....you know....? I'm just trying to help him see the confusion he's having.
He decision is his alone, which has nothing to do with him trusting in me, or you, for that matter. So your effort in trying to nail this down to "people" falls flat.