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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: mythociate on January 13, 2014, 07:40:51 am
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The Bible gives us this report of daughters taking it upon themselves to 'preserve their father's family-line.' (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2019:31-38/&version=KJV)
Is this something we need to know? I guess it works to persuade us that the daughters' children were not also 'virgin births' ...
although it can shed some doubt upon the 'Virgin Birth' we all know of ... who's to say that Mary didn't 'fly in unto Joseph-the-Carpenter like a "succubus" (a mythological angel said to be the cause of wet dreams)' and that SHE wasn't the angel that came to Joseph in a dream?
I know we need to believe in that Virgin Birth; I guess I'm just refining that belief into one 'of faith' rather than one 'of proof' or 'of readings' or 'of tradition.' :angel12:
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(http://i.imgur.com/NeGSsrK.gif)
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I vehemently disagree with this one. Incest is never all right. You live with the fact that you slept with a distant relative for all the wrong reasons. I was conceived because my mother, all of 16, was raped by my father, who was her cousin, married and 28 years old. She had me at the age of 17, but treated me differently than she did my sisters and brother. I served to be a reminder of what had happened. My father passed from brain cancer shortly after I turned 2 years old and my mother never told me of the incident; she took it to her grave. What I learned came from relatives who knew as well what had happened. :bad: ??? ??? ???
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I vehemently disagree with this one. Incest is never all right. You live with the fact that you slept with a distant relative for all the wrong reasons. I was conceived because my mother, all of 16, was raped by my father, who was her cousin, married and 28 years old. She had me at the age of 17, but treated me differently than she did my sisters and brother. I served to be a reminder of what had happened. My father passed from brain cancer shortly after I turned 2 years old and my mother never told me of the incident; she took it to her grave. What I learned came from relatives who knew as well what had happened. :bad: ??? ??? ???
Your example isn't incest (not as close as the Bible-example I gave), and your example is alright (http://gizmodo.com/5905596/relax-its-totally-cool-to-get-with-your-cousin-says-author) (if for no other reason than 'it gave us you!') :)
If the example I gave happened today, the father (even though he 'had no idea' it happened) would be smeared as a pervert! But yours ... Jacob/Israel was so-closely related to HIS two wives!
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Love your post JediJohnnie - For a couple of weeks I've been reading the subject of threads posted by you mythociate and I've ignored them... there are in fact some days I've had a difficult time finding a post to apply my thoughts to because the debate and discuss board has been overloaded with your opinions. Much of which I've discounted allthough reading some other responses has been enlightening. This subject, "Incest Is Alright if You Can Deny Knowing It Happened?" ... the twist on this is so disturbing to me that it has confirmed my instinct to ignore future posts as I simply can't relate and find offense to the view you have on the issue. Alas that's the beauty of forums... voicing our ideas - I'll just stay clear from now on.
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Love your post JediJohnnie - For a couple of weeks I've been reading the subject of threads posted by you mythociate and I've ignored them... there are in fact some days I've had a difficult time finding a post to apply my thoughts to because the debate and discuss board has been overloaded with your opinions. Much of which I've discounted allthough reading some other responses has been enlightening. This subject, "Incest Is Alright if You Can Deny Knowing It Happened?" ... the twist on this is so disturbing to me that it has confirmed my instinct to ignore future posts as I simply can't relate and find offense to the view you have on the issue. Alas that's the beauty of forums... voicing our ideas - I'll just stay clear from now on.
I guess I'm sort of a 'mental-mountain climber,' & something in me won't stop assuming that everyone who can hear me is also such a mountain-climber :dontknow:
But please don't pre-judge all my words, saying "Well that's what he thinks, so it must be "from the daevel"!" Because I agree with most standard-teachings ... but you don't bring crowds-of-millions to see two huge body-builders get together for a 'total-agreement!'
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Love your post JediJohnnie - For a couple of weeks I've been reading the subject of threads posted by you mythociate and I've ignored them... there are in fact some days I've had a difficult time finding a post to apply my thoughts to because the debate and discuss board has been overloaded with your opinions. Much of which I've discounted allthough reading some other responses has been enlightening. This subject, "Incest Is Alright if You Can Deny Knowing It Happened?" ... the twist on this is so disturbing to me that it has confirmed my instinct to ignore future posts as I simply can't relate and find offense to the view you have on the issue. Alas that's the beauty of forums... voicing our ideas - I'll just stay clear from now on.
Glad to see I'm not the only one disturbed by this poster's overwhelming attempts to monopolize this forum with her radical and disturbing (in my opinion) views. I made the mistake of "biting" on another thread and not only were my words twisted in her response - they were completely fabricated. No more.
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Bibles view on incest.....
Those people were closer to perfection and hence there was no risk in their marrying close relatives.
As mankind became more imperfect and the dating pool increased, God then decreed that people should not marry close relatives
"One of Adam’s sons was Cain, and one of Adam’s daughters must have become Cain’s wife. At that time in human history when humans still had outstanding physical health and vitality, as indicated by the length of their lives, the likelihood of passing on defects as a result of marrying a close relative was not great. After some 2,500 years of human history, however, when mankind’s physical condition had greatly deteriorated, Jehovah gave to Israel laws forbidding incest."---"Races of Mankind", in the "Reasoning" book.
God's instructions regarding the avoidance of incest are given at Leviticus 18:6-17 :
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Msmoney...your story was very touching.
Seemed there was much hush hush and that seems to happen in rape.
She didnt abort you so your mom had sense NOT to break Gods law there.And yet i feel for you cos you were a victim of being mistreated.
There is lots on injustice in this world.Its too bad your mom had to die before she had the chance to comfort you.Hopefully God will see in her heart she loved you and due to imperfections of the human race that cost her her relationship with you.But we are all entitled to be forgiven.
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Those people were closer to perfection and hence there was no risk in their marrying close relatives.
This makes no sense on a genetic level since there's no such thing as a 'perfect' gene. Even if a small population is extremely lucky, there will be major birth defects within a few generations. Typically even in 1 generation inbreeding can leave negative results. I recommend you adopt a new religious belief in this story since glorifying incest isn't a healthy idea and it makes people question the validity of your claims. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_Adam_and_Eve's_children_have_their_own_children
Glad to see I'm not the only one disturbed by this poster's overwhelming attempts to monopolize this forum with her radical and disturbing (in my opinion) views. I made the mistake of "biting" on another thread and not only were my words twisted in her response - they were completely fabricated. No more.
Yeah there's a lot of that going around in this forum.
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Falconer...do you really expect me to value your opinion on this when you have NO regard for the bible?
So why don't you explain to us all how the earth was populated?
Let me go get some popcorn...this ought to be good!
BTW...if you wanna start by telling me you came from under a rock I just might believe that!!
<crunch>....wheres the salt!!!
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Who the what the where the don't make me go back and read this rubbish. once again who the what the where the.
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Falconer...let me add,i have spoken out how the bible feels about homosexuality..that its a sin and you think I am going to glorify incest?
Where is your discernment and I support what Jehovah did and how HE terminated it with scripture in HIS due time!
I suggest you start putting seasoning on your shoes!!
You don't support God or the bible....................I DOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Falconer...do you really expect me to value your opinion on this when you have NO regard for the bible?
Considering Christianity in general is slowly* dying off around the world, I think it'd be in your best interest to at least consider it. If you don't want the bible to sound fictional and want to uphold it as a legitimate source of info, don't tell people we came from one simple line of incest. It sounds like an extremely uneducated and mythological idea.
So why don't you explain to us all how the earth was populated? Let me go get some popcorn...this ought to be good!
Through long spans of evolution, genetic drift, understanding rudimentary technologies- all legitimate theories and finds. There were even times when humans were bottle-necking in population and we were close to extinction! I can provide visual evidence of fossilized remains, locations of ancient nomadic campsites, and theorized records of human evolution if you're curious to see.
Falconer...let me add,i have spoken out how the bible feels about homosexuality..that its a sin and you think I am going to glorify incest?
And I had proven that you were wrong about homosexuality through realistic means. You already have (sort of) glorified incest. I will quote it-
"Bibles view on incest.....Those people were closer to perfection and hence there was no risk in their marrying close relatives. As mankind became more imperfect and the dating pool increased, God then decreed that people should not marry close relatives"
You have stated that modern-day humans came from incest. The two glorified original humans from your mythology.
You don't support God or the bible....................I DOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And that's fine! I'm arguing legitimacy/factual accuracy here though. This is me just stating that going around saying we came from incest is both weird and distasteful in the eyes of anyone with a normal thought process. Sorry if that sounds mean, but it's the most basic way to put it.
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... not only were my words twisted in her response - they were completely fabricated. No more.
Perhaps. Because 'your words' were too few, I felt I need to "tack on" what I supposed you meant by them. I would be sorry, if I knew that somehow I had stolen your ability to respond to clarify your first response. But I did not and do not now, so I am not sorry.
That said, do go to that topic & do clarify; or don't, & let the readers judge the way they will ...
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I agree with what u say about so-called xtians today Falconer...Jesus called it over 2000 yrs ago.....
“Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."
-- Jesus Christ
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Falconer...do you really expect me to value your opinion on this when you have NO regard for the bible?
Considering Christianity in general is slowly* dying off around the world, I think it'd be in your best interest to at least consider it. If you don't want the bible to sound fictional and want to uphold it as a legitimate source of info, don't tell people we came from one simple line of incest. It sounds like an extremely uneducated and mythological idea.
So why don't you explain to us all how the earth was populated? Let me go get some popcorn...this ought to be good!
Through long spans of evolution, genetic drift, understanding rudimentary technologies- all legitimate theories and finds. There were even times when humans were bottle-necking in population and we were close to extinction! I can provide visual evidence of fossilized remains, locations of ancient nomadic campsites, and theorized records of human evolution if you're curious to see.
Falconer...let me add,i have spoken out how the bible feels about homosexuality..that its a sin and you think I am going to glorify incest?
And I had proven that you were wrong about homosexuality through realistic means. You already have (sort of) glorified incest. I will quote it-
"Bibles view on incest.....Those people were closer to perfection and hence there was no risk in their marrying close relatives. As mankind became more imperfect and the dating pool increased, God then decreed that people should not marry close relatives"
You have stated that modern-day humans came from incest. The two glorified original humans from your mythology.
You don't support God or the bible....................I DOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And that's fine! I'm arguing legitimacy/factual accuracy here though. This is me just stating that going around saying we came from incest is both weird and distasteful in the eyes of anyone with a normal thought process. Sorry if that sounds mean, but it's the most basic way to put it.
This is why--while I sanctify the Bible as the inspired words of God to scribes & prophets-etc.--I don't hold it to be 'the actual retelling of historic events' ... this is along the same line-of-thought as Mother Teresa's definition of "prayer": 'listening to God as He listens to all creation.'
You can remember that you were 'introduced to this world' when a stork delivered your infantile form to your parents, or you can remember it was when your mother travailed, the water broke, the blood gushed & you emerged from the *bleep* nether-regions still attached to the excavated female by a tube which the masked butcher sliced asunder, WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
NOT a GOOD bedtime-story :angel12:
If you wanna hold with the debate against the Xians who DO hold the Bible as "history" (or if someone reading this IS one of them), you can suppose that--at the Fall of Man--God instantly created further clones (possibly the same way He created Adam and/or Eve) for the children to go out & mate-with.
(Would that still be incest then?)
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Clones??????????LOLLLL!!
The bible says Eve is THE MOTHER of everyone living!!
A&E introduced sin into the world.The penalty of sin was death.The human race dies.Quit trying to re-write the bible!!
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I have thought at length about whether I should respond to this question, and, after much rereading of the original post, I surprise myself in having to say that I believe I understand the premise of the question. As in most debates, the question is thrown out as a place to begin the debate. The statement or question is not necessarily what the debater or writer believes. If you will read the subject, he is not saying that he believes in incest. He is asking the question to start the debate. The subject is followed by a question mark rather than a period. If I am wrong in this presumption, then I will have to admit that I totally don't understand anything at all of Myothicate's ramblings.
It just happens I am right now taking a course on the Old Testament with Christian Leadership Institute. (By the way, I recommend them highly. And their courses are free!!) In this semester, this week actually, part of the study was about this section of Genesis. Below is a small section of one of the readings:
"It may surprise you that God would include a story like this in the Bible. It sounds
more disgusting and far-fetched than what we see on trash TV and tabloids. Some
people think it's too crude to be mentioned from a pulpit. They prefer to stick with nice,
clean, wholesome stories. Maybe that's why a lot of churches and sermons connect
only with nice, clean, wholesome people--or at least people who think they are.
But God tells some pretty dirty stories. The story of Tamar and Judah isn't the
Bible's only example of a family mess. ... I could go on to tell how a
man named Lot got drunk and was seduced by his two daughters, who each had a baby
by him. I could tell how a prostitute named Rahab played a major role in the history of
God's people. I could tell of King David's adulterous affair with Bathsheba and the
murder of her husband. I could tell of how God commanded the prophet Hosea to marry
a prostitute named Gomer, and how she had children by unknown fathers. After telling you all that, I could take you to Matthew 1 and show you where most of these names
appear in the ancestry of Jesus Christ.
When Jesus came and lived among us, he wasn't born from a perfect family line,
and he didn't associate only with decent families. Jesus showed concern for prostitutes,
and many of them became his followers. He shared God's love and grace with a halfbreed
woman who had been through five divorces and was living with a sixth man
whom she hadn't bothered to marry. Jesus befriended various outlaws, lowlifes, and
people who had broken every rule in the book for good family life. ... The Bible shows again and again that even in sinful lives and failing families God
can direct things toward his gracious ends. If you've already got a family life that's holy
and healthy, I'm happy for you. A stable, loving family is a great gift from God, and you
can be very thankful. But if you're in a family that seems like a hopeless failure, God
announces good news that you need to hear and believe.
Jesus doesn't avoid sinners. He saves them. Jesus was willing to join a family
tree that included incest, prostitution, adultery, and murder. Jesus was willing to eat with
embezzlers and prostitutes. Jesus died on a cross between two criminals. Jesus didn't
leave the glory of heaven and give his life on the cross just so that nice people could
become a little nicer. He came to bring you forgiveness from sin and power to start
anew.
There's nothing to keep you from a new life except unbelief. There's nothing to
keep you from Jesus except stubbornness. Listen to Jesus speaking love and hope.
Trust him. Come to him. Jesus promises, "Whoever comes to me I will never drive
away" (John 6:37)."
Dr. David Feddes, Christian Leadership Institute
Of course, this type of behavior is forbidden later in scripture, but I agree with Dr. Feddes that so many of us begin to become "exalted unto ourselves" with all our education. We start to believe we are above all those "sinners" but forget that we are all sinners.
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But when 1 trys to start a question RE the bible,God etc......what is their motive?
Many may be interested for the wrong reason why Satan exists or why he is referred to as "the wicked one."If we want to know more about Satan to be on guard from him and please God...yes its good advice to listen to what God says so he will flee from us.But if we want to know for the reason to be just like him,lets not forget the scripture "Bad association spoil useful habits."
I had NO intention in responding to this topic.Suppose i put a topic up,Murder is alright if you can deny knowing it happened.The only reason i did respond was to enlighten those that have support of the bible and why God allowed in the beginning of incest.But i also later explained thru scripture when and why HE viewed it as a sin.
So much BS in this world.Think of USA slogan,In God we trust"...what a joke....maybe it should read this way,In God we trust,but we have exceptions to his rules.I aint gonna get into what they are either.I am sure many of you already know them and the politicians and many relgeous leaders give in to them so they still get their votes etc.
They dont have the courage to say as Peter did,We must obey God as ruler rather than man.
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Clones??????????LOLLLL!!
The bible says Eve is THE MOTHER of everyone living!!
A&E introduced sin into the world.The penalty of sin was death.The human race dies.Quit trying to re-write the bible!!
I hate when people do this (although I'm just as guilty of it from time-to-time); claiming 'the Bible sez' something, but not bothering to say where the Bible says it.
Anyway ... Do you hold with those who hold that 'not mentioned in the Bible' = 'not a part of God's plan' (http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=60924.0)? then where does the bible mention cell-phones? Astrology? Space-exploration? Those things exist, and yet the Bible does not mention them; is anyone who DOES mention them "rewriting the Bible"?
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Its not hard to research.......Does it matter?Do you doubt me?
The Bible plainly says that Eve "had to become the mother of everyone living" at Genesis 3:20:
" After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living."
So you can see that THAT is what "Eve" means.
Also, the Christian part of the Bible plainly says that the reason we all die is that we ALL inherited death from Adam. Romans 5:12 plainly shows that he is everyone's ancestor, too:
" That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to ALL men because they had ALL sinned—. "
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Love your post JediJohnnie - For a couple of weeks I've been reading the subject of threads posted by you mythociate and I've ignored them... there are in fact some days I've had a difficult time finding a post to apply my thoughts to because the debate and discuss board has been overloaded with your opinions. Much of which I've discounted allthough reading some other responses has been enlightening. This subject, "Incest Is Alright if You Can Deny Knowing It Happened?" ... the twist on this is so disturbing to me that it has confirmed my instinct to ignore future posts as I simply can't relate and find offense to the view you have on the issue. Alas that's the beauty of forums... voicing our ideas - I'll just stay clear from now on.
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mythociate, maybe in your opinion that doesn't constitute in your mind as incest, but the definition of incest is having sexual relations with a relative, whether distant or not. I don't get why you would take a site like FC and bash the Bible. I am like JediJohnnie; some of these opinions need not be responded to because, although you have your opinion, it is not right to take your opinion, however one sided it is, and dump it on others. There are children on this site as well, and you should have some respect for that fact. ??? ??? ??? :bad: :bad: >:(
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I know I have an odd sense of humor, but it just dawned on me what hitch0403 meant in their post. I was wondering what Arts & Entertainment had to do with bringing sin into the world until I realized A&E referred to Adam and Eve.
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Its not hard to research.......Does it matter?Do you doubt me?
The Bible plainly says that Eve "had to become the mother of everyone living" at Genesis 3:20:
" After this Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she had to become the mother of everyone living."
So you can see that THAT is what "Eve" means.
Also, the Christian part of the Bible plainly says that the reason we all die is that we ALL inherited death from Adam. Romans 5:12 plainly shows that he is everyone's ancestor, too:
" That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to ALL men because they had ALL sinned—. "
Understood.
mythociate, maybe in your opinion that doesn't constitute in your mind as incest, but the definition of incest is having sexual relations with a relative, whether distant or not. I don't get why you would take a site like FC and bash the Bible. I am like JediJohnnie; some of these opinions need not be responded to because, although you have your opinion, it is not right to take your opinion, however one sided it is, and dump it on others. There are children on this site as well, and you should have some respect for that fact. ??? ??? ??? :bad: :bad: >:(
It is you who calls this 'bashing the Bible.' I am actually very respectful of the Bible, and it's THE BIBLE that says that (in the past) incest was okay. I'm sorry that 'seeing the truth' tears down what you hold to be holy ... it did the same thing for me, allowing me to let go of those things for the sake of the glory of God..
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LouLiz....if you didnt know what i meant by A&E...im glad that course if FREE!!LOL!!!
But i do try to have a sense of humor...hope you noticed!!
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Good one, hitch. At age 71, I have my senior moments more and more frequently. But I did notice.
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LouLiz...im 62....i know all about those moments.....BTW...WTF are we talking about???
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Beats me...
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1 short term memory canceling the other 1 out!!!LOL!!
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I believe that consensual incest should be illegal. Couples of incestuous relations should be stopped from having children, having sex or marrying.
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incest is disgusting and it is never alright to sleep with someone who is born of your same bloodline, where in the worid is your self respect, there are so many men in women in the world who are not kind to you
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I believe that consensual incest should be illegal. Couples of incestuous relations should be stopped from having children, having sex or marrying.
So why was it wrong-and/or-right IN THE BIBLE-TEXT I LINKED?
incest is disgusting and it is never alright to sleep with someone who is born of your same bloodline, where in the worid is your self respect, there are so many men in women in the world who are not kind to you
Did you read the text linked-to in the topic-starter?
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WEIRD BUT OK IF YOU SAY SO.
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WEIRD BUT OK IF YOU SAY SO.
... but I DON'T say so---I don't think I do! The title was a QUESTION: you might read it as 'Does the Bible really say this?'
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That is what I was trying to say when I responded a few days ago. You did not make a statement; you asked a question.
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I think they may also call that.....DENIAL....OR MAYBE A BAD CASE OF AMNESIA