Messages

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Debate & Discuss / Re: How do you know you are a good Housewives?

« on: February 12, 2011, 04:36:06 pm »Message ID: 313198

That is wonderful mstachitus. I am glad that your parents have been such tremendous role models for you. I didnt growing up with both parents in  but my life. My Dad was in the service(army) didnt see him alot is been good because of my grandmother teaching. I lived with her most of my childhood, because of her. I am happily married with 3kids.(3, 5, and 3months) We bought a home, travel every year,my kids are doing well.  I just enjoy life. I am now 37. Sounds like you have a great family. Im sure your life will be great too. I wish you the best.

Thanks.  I do have a great family, but every family does have its own struggles.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Do you believe in Darwins theory of evlution or do you believe in the bibcal cre

« on: February 12, 2011, 04:34:45 pm »Message ID: 313197

Check this out. I think many of you would find it interesting.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

Thanks for that.

Einstein: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."  - It's funny if you think of 'lame' in its modern day connotation, rather than its original one.  But that is exactly what I believe.  Thanks Einstein!

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Does God create challenges for you if you don't challenge yourself?

« on: February 12, 2011, 04:30:17 pm »Message ID: 313196

No, Life creates challanges for you, not a fictional being!

I thought you believed in God.  Unless I have you mixed up with someone else.

OHHH Hell no! I believe in tangible objects.

Oh, so you believe in Hell? 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

« on: February 12, 2011, 04:28:46 pm »Message ID: 313194

In short, leave people alone who want to accept the Lord as Savior. If they don't choose to believe (like you) then that's their/your choice. Either way, it's personal and it's their business.

Then maybe christians should mind their own business? That's our whole point here. It isn't the nonbelievers who are constantly seen running around "spreading the good word" on this god with this rude philosophy that they hold most dear.

I kind of disagree.  Though christians are trying to spread their various forms of doctrine, "non-believers" are doing the same thing, just in a different tone.  I have had atheistic views pushed on to me time and time again (not necessarily by anyone here), just as often, in fact, as religious ones.

Both sides try to sell their points equally as often.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Do you believe in Darwins theory of evlution or do you believe in the bibcal cre

« on: February 11, 2011, 12:49:16 am »Message ID: 312576

Where does the Bible state that the earth was created in such a specific spectrum.  It mentions days, but not any other time increment: Don't know. But you talk to any Fundamentalist Baptist Preacher, and he's gonna tell ya that their belief in creation is six 24-hour days. No if, ands, or buts about it. What they base that on, I have no idea. But that's where I derived my thought from.

Al scripture is laced incessantly with metaphor upon metaphor.  Christ himself taught metaphorically in what we call "Parables".  If we think of the audience that Moses was writing to when he wrote the original 5 books in our Old Testament, we think of the ancient Israelites.  They were "stiff-necked", and "slow to remember the Lord their God".  They were a real handful for Moses to deal with at times.  They preferred mystery and darkness to light and truth, hence the Law of Moses.  The Old Law was so ridden with metaphors, mystery, and types of things to come hidden in daily, arduous tasks; that much of our scriptures are extremely difficult to interpret correctly, much less take 100% literally.

That in mind, if God so shrouded Israels law in metaphor, reason would tell us that much of our story of the creation, of Adam and Eve, etc., is also metaphoric.  Was there a literal forbidden fruit?  Was Satan literally a serpent in disguise?  Was the earth literally created in 6 short days (24 hour days)?

In short, I don't know.  But reason tells me that there is a good chance that much of this is not to be taken literally.

we're told in scripture that Lucifer fell from God's grace. What led him to do that? I don't know that we're ever told this: Great references provided here. Still, they just present the "tip of the iceberg", for me at least. Eternity is a long time, and I bet books upon books upon books could be written, not by man - but by God himself, about what happened prior to creation/evolution ever happening about "The Life Of God & Satan", hehe. And I'm also confident we'll never know the whole story until we die.

Well, I could tell you more on the subject, particularly what my church teaches about it, but much of it is not found in the Bible, therefore I hesitate to post other sources for fear of harassment    People are pretty attached to the Bible, and are not generally inclined to accept outside sources.

True, though, that we can never know everything in this lifetime.  Truth, as it were, is eternal.  Therefore, the doctrines of salvation are never ending, and cannot be contained in 1 book.  It was said of Christ that the entire world could not contain the books if we were to write of all his dealings from his mortal ministry among men.

Here's a looming question in my own mind. If God formulated a plan to redeem man, why didn't he choose to formulate a plan for Satan, and the angels that fell with him? If Satan miraculously confessed of his evil ways, would he then be allowed salvation? I know scripture depicts the end of Satan and hell, and from that information there's no way this could happen. But it begs the question: "What if....?" Oh, here I go...exactly where this thread didn't intend for us to boldly go, hehe.

Lucifer was incorporated in God's plan of salvation.  He was the "Son of the Morning", the "Bringer of Light".  He was a noble and great spirit, a son of God in every sense that you and I am.  He rebelled, and fell from heaven.  He sought power and authority, and deceived a great host of spirits who became his angels.  He knew full well what he was doing, and so did his followers.  We don't know exactly what happen, but a there was a "war in heaven", as the scriptures state.  I don't think there is much repentance in his heart.  He is still fighting, and we ask why.  Why would he continue if his own future is so bleak?  It's because he wants to make all men miserable like unto himself.  Every time we choose to follow him, he wins a small battle.  He's going down, but he'll take every soul he can with him.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: I have a prophetical gift.

« on: February 11, 2011, 12:25:27 am »Message ID: 312573

I get visions. They stuck me with a diagnisis but I know better.

Well that's cool    Is that all you have to say?

They say brevity is the soul of wit.

Hmmm ... I like that.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: The book of Mormon

« on: February 11, 2011, 12:20:23 am »Message ID: 312572

It is called in search of the Lords way.It comes on channel 57 out of Atlanta Ga at 7:30 am

That is interesting.  I never knew about that

Fact mormons have the largest database on human genealogy,  might be good but I find that weird I can cite later if someone wants me to.

You are referring to familysearch.org, a site to aid in genealogy research.  I think Ancestry.com is larger, though.  It's slightly more useful, I'd say.  Genealogy is a common practice in our church.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Do you believe in Darwins theory of evlution or do you believe in the bibcal cre

« on: February 10, 2011, 11:05:41 am »Message ID: 312344

And if that's true, then for me at least, I can no longer believe that Creation is literally done in six, 24-hour days.

Where does the Bible state that the earth was created in such a specific spectrum.  It mentions days, but not any other time increment.

Next, I wrestle with this thought. It's my understanding that we do not have the original manuscripts of the Bible. We have copies upon copies upon copies. Translations from one language to the next, and so on. Is it possible that the word DAY in Genesis could have meant PERIODS or AGES, or whatever word could be used to represent such-and-such was created/evolved first over millions/billions of years? And then the next things were done, and then the next, and so on. To me, this is more plausible.

It's possible, I'm sure.  The Bible also states that one day to the Lord is like 1,000 years for us.

we're told in scripture that Lucifer fell from God's grace. What led him to do that? I don't know that we're ever told this.

There are multiple references to this topic in the Bible:  

Isaiah 14:12-15 - Talks about Lucifer falling from heaven; that he was a "son of the morning".
Luke 10:17-18 - Reference made to Satan falling from heaven as lightning.
2 Peter 2:4 - Refers to other "Angels that sinned", who were cast out of heaven.  Apparently, Lucifer was not alone.
Jude 1:6 - "Angels who kept not their first estate".  The first estate is the preexistence of man as spirits.  Lucifer and his followers rebelled and fell from heaven.
Revelation 12:7-12 - The most comprehensive section of scripture on the topic.  I'll quote it directly:

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him ... woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

A belief of the expulsion from heaven of Satan and his followers reaches far back into human history.  Outside of the Bible, it is probably best preserved in the religious literature of Babylonia.  Centuries before Christ's birth, Zoaster there taught his disciples about a pre-mortal separation between a certain good spirit, called Ahura Mazda, and a certain wicked spirit, called Angra Mainyu.  The rest of the spirits chose which of these two chief spirits they would follow, after which the evil spirits, called Daeva, were expelled.

Lucifer, the previous name of Satan, or the Devil, literally means "Bringing Light", and has reference to Venus, the "Morning Star".  This shows that Lucifer held great status in heaven before his alleged fall with his angels.

Bottom Line (for me). I believe in both Creation and Evolution.

Seems like a logical conclusion.  I also believe in elements of both.

Finally, I believe that we will NEVER know for sure, and that to wonder of such things is really a waste of time. The fact remains, we're here. Who cares where we came from, or how we got here - though I do believe God is responsible. I believe in Satan too. And perhaps this whole battle of Creation vs Evolution is a means for Satan to distract from the real reason we exist, which is to regain fellowship with God. And at this point, I'll jump off my pedestal, because that's an argument not related to the questions being asked in this thread.

I think it is perfectly fine to speculate about these types of things.  It is our existence, after all.  What could be more important for us to speculate about?  I'm sure Satan does use this topic to distract us from our real goal here on earth, as you say, but only if we let that happen.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: A 2yr old dies because parents relied on prayer alone

« on: February 10, 2011, 10:27:19 am »Message ID: 312320

True faith requires action.

But that is only your opinion, mstach, not the actual definition of the word.  I'm just sayin'.

That is reasonable.  Everything anyone posts on here is opinion, however.

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Off-Topic / Re: Do you believe in Ghosts?

« on: February 10, 2011, 12:18:32 am »Message ID: 312071

I think there is some fact to experiencing such phenomena such as ghosts.

For those of us who believe in an afterlife, we tend to think of the spirit moving on into some other place (Heaven, Hell, etc.).  Who's to say that they move into another physical area at all?  Heaven or Hell could just be states of being, rather than actual places.  Therefore, those who die could be all around us.  Perhaps they are not aware of us, and we are not aware of them ... most of the time ...

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Debate & Discuss / Re: How does one know they are a good husband?

« on: February 10, 2011, 12:12:13 am »Message ID: 312068

Tried to ask her indirectly and she goes off on me like there is something wrong when I do try too.

Don't ask her indirectly, ask her directly...Like someone said, communication is key...Say to her "hun we need to talk". Sit her down, hold her hand and be completely honest with her. Ask her what she is feeling and how the two of you can work together to make things better....Good luck dear.

Great advice.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Was Billy the Kid shot and killed?

« on: February 10, 2011, 12:10:15 am »Message ID: 312067

Either way, he's dead now.

Interesting thought, though. I wouldn't put it past his pursuers to claim his death, just to make themselves look good.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Do you believe in Darwins theory of evlution or do you believe in the bibcal cre

« on: February 10, 2011, 12:08:17 am »Message ID: 312066

Aha!  The article works!  LOL

Lol, luckily I don't think we were going at it too bad.  It was more of a discussion than anything else, but thanks for the article.  I ust hope other people read it as well, on both sides of he argument, because really there is a lot of intolerance on this issue.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: How do you know you are a good Housewives?

« on: February 10, 2011, 12:06:06 am »Message ID: 312064

I think it's important for the mother and the father to work together in all things.  Of course, both will have their roles to play in the bringing up of children and the management of the home, but I think having a mind of unity and loyalty, and striving to be a helping hand for the other at all cost, is key to success.

I am not married, so perhaps my views are still tainted by youth, but I know how things are with my parents.  My mother is a stay at home mom, and my father works.  My mother does most of the cleaning and cooking and caring for the home, but my father always strives to help with what he can when he is home.  While my mom is cooking, he is never just sitting around.  If she is working, he is working.  He might be fixing something in the house or on the car, or if nothing else, helping her prepare the meal.  He strives to serve her and put her well being first.

It's a great example for me.  I want to be the same way for my future wife.  My mom gets sick a lot, and he takes up all the slack when she cant do much.  I don't live at home anymore because I'm older and going to college, but their example of unity and love will always be with me.

So I think the most important thing is selflessness.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: The thread for those who don't know the trinity.

« on: February 09, 2011, 11:58:16 pm »Message ID: 312059

mstachitus: You are absolutely right.  When I responded with that last comment, I was reminded by a friend that ultimately we should be striving to bring others to know the Lord, and to be serving our Lord until He comes again.  I wholeheartedly agree with you that the trinity, as well as other issues having to do with God, are not meant for us to totally understand since God's mind is higher than our minds.  So, I thank you, too, for reminding me of that - all I was doing was trying to keep pushing against the fence with no way to knock it down!

I'm sorry if I seem confrontational.  It is not my intent to put down the beliefs of others.  I hope you take my posts in the way they were intended, which is merely my view on things.

In the end, it is every persons right to worship in the manner that so pleases them, or even to not worship at all.  I still believe that there is one true doctrine of Christ, and that His church organization exists in its fullness, but the agency of man is of supreme importance, so we should never try to impose our beliefs onto others.  Loving persuasion and meekness will go so much farther than arrogant, forceful decrees.

If you choose to believe in the Trinity, you have a right to continue, and I support you in your agency.  I choose not to, and I expect my own beliefs to be respected as well.