Either Jesus was for real
Quite debatable.
or He was a liar...and the BIGGEST con-artist of all time as He would have conned and is still conning people LONG after His death.
Reasonable conclusion. There were dozens upon dozens of people in that time period claiming to be the messiah. There's hardly anything about the identity of this Jesus Christ that is original (almost every characteristic about him is based upon other deities of the time period). Interestingly enough, there were dozens upon dozens of cults at the time, each with a different take on the story. Some had Jesus as the messiah, some had John the Baptist, others had Mary, others had Peter, etc. etc. It's pretty likely they 'evolved' and combined, so to speak, just as almost every other form of mythology in history.
There's not much outside evidence of this happening to Christianity, because the church destroyed or rewrote anything it could find to gain/maintain power, but there is tons of evidence of this happening to other religions. There is also evidence of this in the Bible itself. Paul mentions in one of his letters that he is writing to refute all of the other versions of Christianity that exist. John explicitly states he's not the messiah. Why? As a slap in the face to the Johannine cults. Other evidence is the various apocryphal "gospels" like Judas and Thomas, all giving alternate takes on things.
Let's have some more fun. Let's look at the names of some main characters in the Bible:
Imagine you were making this story up, right from scratch, and you wanted to name your messiah - the living embodiment of God's determination to save humanity from Hell. What would you name him? "God will save you", perhaps? How convenient! That's pretty much "Jesus" in Aramaic. Wow. Hey, what about the others? Like the guy who represents the Jewish betrayal of Jesus? "Judas", perhaps? The character who is the foundation on which the religion is built after Jesus ascends, "rock", perhaps, which translates to "Peter"? And so on. That's about as blatant as an English writer naming a thief "Robin."
And why would they do this? To give more dominance to the cult that had Jesus as the messiah.
Even after all this time, there is NO evidence that has been found that proves He was anything contrary to what He said He was
Yet another person proposing people should try to prove a negative claim. It doesn't work that way. The burden of proof lies on those who make the positive claim, especially when that positive claim is such a stretch from reality.
The fact of the matter is this: There is an incredibly tiny amount of extant evidence for Jesus Christ's existence (the gospels/writings of Paul are not evidence). There is a passing mention in Tacitus which is known to have plenty of factual inaccuracies, a very controversial mention in Josephus which scholars believe was edited, and a few other random, non-detailed mentions amongst a couple authors. Regardless, all of these mentions were written decades after the supposed death of Jesus Christ. There is literally not a single first hand account of his existence.
There is an even smaller amount of extant evidence that this man was crucified. The story as it's written in the Gospels makes zero sense at all (never mind that the Gospels contradict themselves on even the largest of details) and there isn't a single Roman document making note of such a crucifixion. Crucifixion was a rare punishment reserved for slaves and rebels; Jesus, as he's described, was neither. And again, we find there is not a single first hand account of the crucifixion. The gospels aren't even a first hand account; the earliest, Mark, was written roughly 30 to 35 years after. The rest were written well after that.
There is absolutely zero evidence of a resurrection. Why? Because people don't rise from the dead. Simple.
in fact, archaeologists keep finding more and more proof that He did exist as well as proof that events in the Bible---even the ones many hope to be "fairy tales" actually did happen.
Show some of this proof, please. If you're saying they've found historical locations that are mentioned in the Bible, okay? That's not a big deal; many of those places exist to this day. If you're saying they found Noah's Ark, no they have not. If you're saying they found evidence of a resurrection, no they didn't.
To say God created a universe that doesn't need a creator, and created life that doesn't appear to need a creator----really? WOW--- Take a look around at your universe
I have. And there is a natural explanation for every occurrence we've observed. That implies either there was no creator, or the creator made everything and put a nice spin on it that makes it seem like it needs no creator.
the reason it's in such a MESS right now is BECAUSE God is being removed from everything.
What is in a mess? There have been horrible economic downturns throughout all of history. There have been much, much worse wars throughout history. None of this is abnormal, in fact it's much better than it has been throughout history. There is arguably a minimal amount of suffering today when compared to the past. People are living longer on average, people are more healthy on average, we are capable of fixing so many more medical issues, etc. etc. There is no mess; this is the cycle of mankind and it's most certainly improved over the centuries.
You should HOPE that the Bible is 110% true because if it turns out that it is, someday you will have your wish. God and all those who believe in Him WILL be removed from this earth. Hope to see you "on the other side" but if not, the good news is you will get to live in your universe and see what a universe is really like that doesn't need a Creator.
Again, I have no desire to spend eternity with a being that punishes infinitely for a finite amount of sin. I have no desire to spend eternity with a being that punishes someone infinitely even if they've led a moral, charitable life, but simply failed to get on their knees. I have no desire to spend eternity with a being that is as conceited and jealous as this.
Community Forum
Topic: The proof that God exists... (Read 20111 times)
March 19, 2010, 09:35:43 am
