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Topic: The Bible as Truth?  (Read 42589 times)

Falconer02

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2010, 03:14:27 pm »
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atheists being condescending and disrespectful.  I think I have been respectful of you as a person, despite disagreeing with you I have not mocked you or tried to humiliate you by making fun of you or what you think.

It was a sort of metaphor for what happened to me. An analogy per se. When you said you didn't feel the spirit leading you, I just felt it kind of disrespectful to not give yourself ANY credit for an attempt at reasoning. Instead of patting yourself on the back and saying "hey i'm out of it but yeah I'll get back to ya; good argument thus far", you feel that god had to dismiss you from the argument; that god needed to give you a break because you didn't feel him helping you out :sad1:. It sounded extremely delusional when I read it-- that you'd back into that emotional feeling than just a blunt "too tired-- I'll get back to ya soon." A pointless advertisement of faith.

Sorry if you took it harshly...but it just sounds so stereotypical of a christian-minion mindset and you seem better than that.

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His atoms have been recycled back into the universe, "living on" in trees, animals, water, and great minds.

This is truth.

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Ahh, but I don't believe in the christian god, either.  I'm Jewish.  There is a big difference.  One of the biggies is that we don't try to "save" people or frighten them into our way of believing.

I totally forgot! My apologies. Wasn't it true that you couldn't speak the name of god in the OT or you'd be punished?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 03:18:59 pm by Falconer02 »

shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2010, 03:21:46 pm »
This comment is disrespectful to me as a person. You can think my beliefs are ridiculous but to stoop to mocking my beliefs is immature and I really don't appreciate it.  :(

He's a good guy.  I'm sure he didn't mean to hurt your feelings!

WHY atheists are "arrogant": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_CFI0W4mU&videos=FEiwbzy9puw  (I screened it; it's not offensive - lol)

Listen, I have been very tolerant I think in reading posts that I believe slander a God that I am completely in love with, because I also love His people and I understand that you don't respect God because you don't believe in Him.  But if I were to call your mother a stupid *bleep* and laugh and mock her, would that be ok? I love God no less than you love your mother so why is it ok for you to poke fun at my God? And not only that but Falconer's comment was clearly meant to try and make me look stupid. Would it be ok to you for me to be arrogant in my statements about what I believe your mother to be because I'm sure I know her character better than you?

It's one thing to have a legitimate question or are making a statement that you think states your position, it's another thing to treat another human being like they have no feelings simply because you think their feelings are stupid.



shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2010, 03:27:38 pm »
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It was a sort of metaphor for what happened to me. An analogy per se. When you said you didn't feel the spirit leading you, I just felt it kind of disrespectful to not give yourself ANY credit for an attempt at reasoning. Instead of patting yourself  on the back and saying "hey i'm out of it but yeah I'll get back to ya; good argument thus far", you feel that god had to dismiss you from the argument; that god needed to give you a break because you didn't feel  him helping you out sad1. It sounded extremely delusional when I read it-- that you'd back into that emotional feeling than just a blunt "too tired-- I'll get back to ya soon." A pointless advertisement of faith.

I won't give myself credit for anything without giving credit to God first.....I wasn't too tired I posted EXACTLY what I felt at the time. Claiming to be too tired would have been a lie. And it wasn't an advertisement of my faith, this is just who I am.

I am of the opinion that at least if you don't feel christians in an of themselves deserve respect then at least maybe you might think that I have earned your respect by not treating you like less of a human being because I think your beliefs are wrong. I do not consider myself better than you because I believe I'm right. As a matter of fact you may actually be a better person than me, I don't know you that well to make such a judgment.  All I asked for since coming in this forum is consideration for human feelings.



amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2010, 04:30:22 pm »

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Ahh, but I don't believe in the christian god, either.  I'm Jewish.  There is a big difference.  One of the biggies is that we don't try to "save" people or frighten them into our way of believing.

I totally forgot! My apologies. Wasn't it true that you couldn't speak the name of god in the OT or you'd be punished?

That is one way of viewing it, but like I said, in a room of four Jews there are six Judaisms.  My take on it is as I explained before.

Here is a video you may find interesting...I just was hesitant to post it because the author is attempting to convert...which I wholeheartedly do not agree with.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlxDJUVMnw



Falconer02

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2010, 05:19:35 pm »
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But if I were to call your mother a stupid *bleep* and laugh and mock her, would that be ok? I love God no less than you love your mother so why is it ok for you to poke fun at my God?
I'm not sure this example holds any weight. If my mom was never seen or heard and everyone had defined her through their own interpretations without any evidence of them being right (besides a feeling), sure. She would seem like a stupid *bleep* in a philosophical sense. That is funny. But here's the kicker- she's nice and real. I have documents, pictures, footage, etc. I can see and talk to her just like everyone else can. She even replies back! I can hear her! No silly justifications, feelings, or contradicting interpretations needed. The best part? She does not judge and curse me beyond the grave if I think she's wrong about something.

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Falconer's comment was clearly meant to try and make me look stupid.
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it's another thing to treat another human being like they have no feelings simply because you think their feelings are stupid.
You need to give yourself some credit. That's all that I was getting at. That original statement sounded very delusional. I'll explain later- there are too many body thetans attached to my body to give you a non-delusional answer.

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I think your beliefs are wrong. I do not consider myself better than you because I believe I'm right. As a matter of fact you may actually be a better person than me, I don't know you that well to make such a judgment.  All I asked for since coming in this forum is consideration for human feelings.

Pish posh! You're taking it far too personally. Why do you believe I am wrong? Does it just stem back to a feeling?

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Here is a video you may find interesting...I just was hesitant to post it because the author is attempting to convert...which I wholeheartedly do not agree with.

It's funny...I watched the video and as every point was made, I realized I already knew the basics of it. But yeah he's definately a converter at the end. That's not too bad in this case though. He gave some sound points and did his homework. Far from, say, a creationist science video. If you have any other good ones, please share.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 05:23:56 pm by Falconer02 »

amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2010, 05:25:03 pm »
I did find some highly entertaining videos that I will not post a direct link for since they can be deemed highly offensive in their content, but check out the user BionicDance on youtube.



shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2010, 05:51:48 pm »
The example holds weight, not based on your mother existing or not, but that she is someone you love and I have no right to disrespect you by mocking her.

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Pish posh! You're taking it far too personally. Why do you believe I am wrong? Does it just stem back to a feeling?

Go back to every post I have ever made, it's not based on feelings but in evidence, evidence that your choosing to ignore or blow off by making statements that it's "contradictory" and "wacky" "unreasonable" (not necessarily your personal statements but made by atheists on this site in general). There isn't anything I could present as evidence that you wouldn't dismiss, purely because you think anything written by a christian is unreliable merely because they are christian.

And I wasn't taking it personally until your comment because, your comment wasn't what is considered "polite discourse" it did nothing to add to the debate; it was a personal ridicule of me based on your opinion that my statement was "delusional".

So in conclusion to this particular side issue to the topic of the bible....I am who I am, I believe in God based evidences I have found from many sources and my own personal relationship with my Creator. I am willing to share information pertinent to a topic, but I expect the same courtesies that I give, in respecting the people behind the computer screen. That's all I ask, I'm not asking for agreement just courtesy.


queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2010, 05:53:48 pm »
I did find some highly entertaining videos that I will not post a direct link for since they can be deemed highly offensive in their content

Guilty as charged here as well!  My favorite is http://www.youtube.com/user/ZOMGitsCriss; videos like "Jesus Tells It Like It Is", "God Tells It Like It Is", and "How to Be a Good Creationist" -- freaking hilarious.  I'm pretty sure she's never posted anything bad about Judaism (since Judaism isn't trying to push an agenda), just Christianity and Islam.  ;)
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

Cuppycake

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2010, 06:02:00 pm »
The example holds weight, not based on your mother existing or not, but that she is someone you love and I have no right to disrespect you by mocking her.

Quote
Pish posh! You're taking it far too personally. Why do you believe I am wrong? Does it just stem back to a feeling?

Go back to every post I have ever made, it's not based on feelings but in evidence, evidence that your choosing to ignore or blow off by making statements that it's "contradictory" and "wacky" "unreasonable" (not necessarily your personal statements but made by atheists on this site in general). There isn't anything I could present as evidence that you wouldn't dismiss, purely because you think anything written by a christian is unreliable merely because they are christian.

And I wasn't taking it personally until your comment because, your comment wasn't what is considered "polite discourse" it did nothing to add to the debate; it was a personal ridicule of me based on your opinion that my statement was "delusional".

So in conclusion to this particular side issue to the topic of the bible....I am who I am, I believe in God based evidences I have found from many sources and my own personal relationship with my Creator. I am willing to share information pertinent to a topic, but I expect the same courtesies that I give, in respecting the people behind the computer screen. That's all I ask, I'm not asking for agreement just courtesy.

I prefer to believe in things that have some basis in reality. There is no "evidence" of a god...

amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2010, 06:08:28 pm »
Eh, even if someone did post something bad about Judaism, it really wouldn't bother me.  I post things that are bad enough.  I even mock my own g-d.  But I don't believe my g-d would hold it against me.  

And, in all fairness, there are some Jews that do try to push an agenda, as evidenced in the video I posted.   ;)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 06:10:02 pm by amyrouse »



queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2010, 06:10:09 pm »
There isn't anything I could present as evidence that you wouldn't dismiss, purely because you think anything written by a christian is unreliable merely because they are christian.

To be honest, the in-depth justification/"context" of the evil in the Bible you presented from your sites was er, impressive...for lack of a better word.  When I finally sat down to read the Bible for myself straight-through as a Christian, I didn't bother trying to research how to rationalize all of the horror that I read like your websites do.  To me, it was quite obvious that the god I was reading about was an immoral tyrant and didn't line up with the definitions "perfect", "all-loving", "all-compassionate", etc.  Blame it on how I was raised or my critical-thinking personality.  It was also quite plain to me that this Bible wasn't the holy word of god, but rather primitive man's attempt to push political agenda and make sense of their unscientific world.

In addition to my reading the Bible, the article I posted in my latest thread (http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17122.0) was part of the puzzle of coming away from my Christian beliefs back in 2007.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2010, 07:24:15 pm »
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I prefer to believe in things that have some basis in reality. There is no "evidence" of a god...

Books with evidence of God
# By Design by by Dr. Jonathan Safarti
# Darwin’s Black Box by Michael J. Behe
# Darwin’s Enigma by by Luther D. Sunderland
# Bones of Contention by Marvin L. Lubenow
# Buried Alive by by Jack Cuozzo
# Icons of Evolution by by Jonathan Wells
# The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel
# In Six Days Edited by John F. Ashton PhD.
# On the Seventh Day Edited by John F. Ashton PhD.
# Many Infallible Proofs Henry M. Morris

The Scientific Case Against Evolution by Robert Locke a NON CREATIONIST http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/locke.html
 
Oh and here is a small list of SCIENTISTS who have accepted the Biblical account of creation
    *   Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry
    * Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
    * Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
    * Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
    * Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
    * Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
    * Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
    * Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist
    * Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
    * Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
    * Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
    * Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
    * Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
    * Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
    * Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
    * Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
    * Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology
    * Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology
    * Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
    * Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
    * Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
    * Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
    * Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
    * Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
    * Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
    * Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
    * Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist
    * Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
    * Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
    * Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
    * Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
    * Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
    * Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
    * Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
    * Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
    * Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
    * Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
    * Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
    * Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
    * Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
    * Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
    * Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
    * Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
    * Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
    * Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
    * Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
    * Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
    * Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology
    * Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
    * Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
    * Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
    * Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
    * Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
    * Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
    * Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
    * Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
    * Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
    * Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
    * Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
    * Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History
    * Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist
    * Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV
    * Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
    * Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
    * Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
    * Dr. John Hartnett, Physics
    * Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist)
    * Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
    * Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
    * Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
    * Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
    * Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist
    * Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
    * Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
    * Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
    * Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
    * Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
    * Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
    * Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
    * Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
    * Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics
    * Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
    * George T. Javor, Biochemistry
    * Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology
    * Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology
    * Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
    * Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
    * Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
    * Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
    * Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist
    * Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
    * Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
    * Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
    * Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
    * Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
    * Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
    * Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
    * Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
    * Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
    * Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
    * Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
    * Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
    * Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
    * Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology
    * Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
    * Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
    * Dr. John Leslie, Biochemist
    * Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
    * Dr. Alan Love, Chemist
    * Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
    * Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
    * Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry
    * Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
    * Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
    * Dr. John McEwan, Chemist
    * Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
    * Dr. David Menton, Anatomist
    * Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
    * Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist
    * Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist
    * Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
    * Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician
    * Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator
    * Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
    * Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research.
    * Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist
    * Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist
    * Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist
    * Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
    * Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology
    * Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
    * Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
    * Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
    * Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher
    * Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
    * Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
    * Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
    * Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
    * Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
    * Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
    * Prof. Richard Porter
    * Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
    * Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist
    * Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D.
    * Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
    * Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
    * Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist
    * Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology
    * Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry
    * Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
    * Dr. Ian Scott, Educator
    * Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
    * Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
    * Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
    * Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
    * Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology
    * Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer
    * Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
    * Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
    * Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer
    * Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist
    * Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
    * Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology
    * Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
    * Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
    * Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry
    * Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics
    * Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
    * Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
    * Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
    * Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
    * Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
    * Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
    * Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
    * Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist
    * Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon
    * Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering
    * Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
    * Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist
    * Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
    * Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
    * Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
    * Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery
    * Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
    * Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
    * Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997)
    * Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
    * Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
    * Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
    * Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
    * Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
    * Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
    * Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology

But Cuppycake I guess you think they are all stupid and have "no evidence"??


queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2010, 07:56:16 pm »
Sherna, I could be wrong, but you appear as though you feel attacked.  Please understand at least on my end, this is my first "committed" experience using a forum AND engaging in regular, intelligent discussion about religion.  So it's a learning process.  I'm going to make mistakes.  I'm going to appear too arrogant at times and offend people...when that's not always my intention.

Why do I, as an atheist, challenge sweet, good religious people such as yourself, you say?  Because I'm a lot more likely to get through to the people who are fairly benign with their beliefs rather than Fred Phelps or the 9/11 hijackers.  Most religious people are good people, so if atheists can get the moderates to critically examine their beliefs, we can band together to stop the fringe loonies of the world who ARE harming in the name of religion.   :thumbsup:
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2010, 08:18:38 pm »
Sherna, I could be wrong, but you appear as though you feel attacked.  Please understand at least on my end, this is my first "committed" experience using a forum AND engaging in regular, intelligent discussion about religion.  So it's a learning process.  I'm going to make mistakes.  I'm going to appear too arrogant at times and offend people...when that's not always my intention.

Why do I, as an atheist, challenge sweet, good religious people such as yourself, you say?  Because I'm a lot more likely to get through to the people who are fairly benign with their beliefs rather than Fred Phelps or the 9/11 hijackers.  Most religious people are good people, so if atheists can get the moderates to critically examine their beliefs, we can band together to stop the fringe loonies of the world who ARE harming in the name of religion.   :thumbsup:

Queen, I feel slightly attacked yes but it's more frustrating to me that it seems I am a minority in the forum or I'm the only one willing to stand up STRONGLY for my belief. My question is where are the rest of the STRONG christians here?? But anyhow I agree we should band together to stop the atrocities committed in the name of religion. I loathe to see protesters outside abortion clinics with God's name written along side a message that God despises. Yes, we as christians disagree with it but God's message is not "Go forth into all the nations and tell people of my wrath and hatred" God hates sin NOT PEOPLE. But it's hard to band together when our intent is the same but our message is different. The only thing that matters to me is convincing people that they don't have to be good enough for heaven they only have to accept the passionate act Christ did for them and they are free! No more guilt and shame but only a relationship with the One who created them!

I used to think I was so unworthy of God that it made me feel small and ashamed. I had secret dark things in me that I kept hidden for fear of being judged by people. But I found out God's grace covers all that.
I have been promiscuous, committed adultery, lied, stole, cheated, manipulated, judging, hypocritical, addicted to pornography, drugs, and alcohol, abusive, hateful, vindictive, unforgiving.....in my mind, I committed murder and torture and schemed all kinds of things.....

Yet I know that God loves me, I don't fear death and I don't fear hell. Christ died so that I don't have to live in bondage to guilt of sin. My desire is to please God by loving what He loves (people and righteousness and truth) and hating what He hates (sin).  My mission is to love people!!


amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2010, 08:32:07 pm »
Sherna, I could be wrong, but you appear as though you feel attacked.  Please understand at least on my end, this is my first "committed" experience using a forum AND engaging in regular, intelligent discussion about religion.  So it's a learning process.  I'm going to make mistakes.  I'm going to appear too arrogant at times and offend people...when that's not always my intention.

Why do I, as an atheist, challenge sweet, good religious people such as yourself, you say?  Because I'm a lot more likely to get through to the people who are fairly benign with their beliefs rather than Fred Phelps or the 9/11 hijackers.  Most religious people are good people, so if atheists can get the moderates to critically examine their beliefs, we can band together to stop the fringe loonies of the world who ARE harming in the name of religion.   :thumbsup:

Queen, I feel slightly attacked yes but it's more frustrating to me that it seems I am a minority in the forum or I'm the only one willing to stand up STRONGLY for my belief. My question is where are the rest of the STRONG christians here?? But anyhow I agree we should band together to stop the atrocities committed in the name of religion. I loathe to see protesters outside abortion clinics with God's name written along side a message that God despises. Yes, we as christians disagree with it but God's message is not "Go forth into all the nations and tell people of my wrath and hatred" God hates sin NOT PEOPLE. But it's hard to band together when our intent is the same but our message is different. The only thing that matters to me is convincing people that they don't have to be good enough for heaven they only have to accept the passionate act Christ did for them and they are free! No more guilt and shame but only a relationship with the One who created them!

I used to think I was so unworthy of God that it made me feel small and ashamed. I had secret dark things in me that I kept hidden for fear of being judged by people. But I found out God's grace covers all that.
I have been promiscuous, committed adultery, lied, stole, cheated, manipulated, judging, hypocritical, addicted to pornography, drugs, and alcohol, abusive, hateful, vindictive, unforgiving.....in my mind, I committed murder and torture and schemed all kinds of things.....

Yet I know that God loves me, I don't fear death and I don't fear hell. Christ died so that I don't have to live in bondage to guilt of sin. My desire is to please God by loving what He loves (people and righteousness and truth) and hating what He hates (sin).  My mission is to love people!!

I have to say, in the short amount of time that I have been posting on these forums, I have found you to be one of the nicest people here.  You disagree, but you don't personally attack, and I admire you for this.

And I have to say I disagree with you on the fare for heaven.  I have a hard time believing that a man who devoted his life to helping others (a small story that stuck with me from Chicken Soup for the Jewish Soul) but did not adhere to any religion would be denied heaven while a rapist or murderer that accepted Christ on his deathbed would be welcomed.  If that is what I have to look forward to; meeting my god fearing rapist in heaven, then I'd much rather face non-existence. 

Just a little food for thought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJoC7Lz6SI



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