If you don't believe in God, will you go to hell when you die?

[Falconer02]

According to the Bible, the Christian God gave humans 0wn-ership of the earth and all that happens in it.

Well your god is either a dunce or he's still completely evil. Considering christians believe that he's perfect/omnipotent/etc., I think this quote proves that he's not. Do you remember the unattended stove example? I saved a text document of it from long ago--

"God doesn't send us to Hell; we send ourselves there."

Let's take a close look at the above assertion. First of all, there's an assumption that an individual will have an actual choice to go to either the Nice Place or the Not-So-Nice place, somehow overriding the Divine Will of the omnipotent and omniscient Biblegod. This flies in the face of at least one variant of Christianity, Calvinism, which asserts that Biblegod has already picked out the "saved" and discarded everyone else. If your god is all-powerful, then he has done this. If he hasn't, he is not all-powerful.

Secondly, it is also assumed that Biblegod will not only know about this person's "choice" but knew about it in advance, and permits it to happen anyway. The usual excuse given for this is that Biblegod does not want to impose upon our free will.

Does anyone else see the problem with this?

I present the analogy of the Parent and the Unattended Stove. A small child toddles into the kitchen. In that kitchen is a stove with all the burners turned to 'High', and a ladder conveniently located right next to the stove. The child climbs the ladder, and falls off it onto the blazing stove.

Oh, and did I mention that the Parent is standing just footsteps away, washing dishes in the sink?

At this point, what Christian apologists would have us believe is that this is somehow all the fault of the child -- Who is now on fire and screaming in agony. To you, ladies and gentlemen, I just have this to say:

What kind of parent would go to the stove, turn all the burners on, put a ladder beside the stove, watch their own child climb that ladder, allow the child to fall onto the stove, and then just stand there for eternity and let the child scream?

The "free will" argument is a red herring, and a convenient excuse for not confronting the immorality of Biblegod. Any parent worthy of the name would rescue the child at the first possible opportunity, without even considering the child's "free will." Better yet, a conscientious parent would childproof the kitchen to prevent such catastrophes from happening in the first place -- And again, "free will" has nothing to do with it. It's just good parenting.

You do not do your god honour with this kind of argument, by the way. It makes your invisible friend look like a maniac.Please give serious consideration to the above, and stop making excuses for the inexcusable.

I'm not "attacking" ministers here, it's just what this guy is doing is ripping people off for his own personal gain.  He's a moron.   They live in NORTH DAKOTA...so be fore-warned everybody.  LOL

Well there's another state I will never live in. lol

[ro901]

JOHN 3:16.  I'm sorry you're so worried mariellisa. Either you believe or you don't. If you do then don't worry.be happy

[Falconer02]

Unless you're mentally ill, everything you have ever done has been willing and on purpose and intentional...whether it be good or bad.

The argument in the article is for showing the christian god is a fatalist-- that free-will is a hoax if you're christian. And since that's inarguably the case, there's only 2 ways of looking at it.
1.) He is either very imperfect
2.) or he is maniacally evil

This has nothing to do with mental illness. Do you understand?

Just because some people are just bad people doesn't mean God has to make us all robots with a non thinking mind who just follows his commands. What kind of life would that be?

Like I said, according to what christians believe, you are already a robot since christianity has flawed reasonings pertaining to free-will. If you think the christian god is omnipotent/perfect, everything you do is predetermined by god, therefore there is no free-will. The only problem is that you don't know what this deity thinks up for each individual, but that's pathetic cop-out reasoning at best and skips the point completely. And I bet it will be used by anyone who wants to take a swing at this article.

[judy6ht]

i guess so

[footemama]

If you don't believe in God then how can you believe in hell? And why would you worry about it??

I'm just wondering....

Personally, God as an omnipotent being that resides over us all and decides how we will spend eternity is as strange to me as the idea of Zeus and the other Greek gods up on Mount Olympus looking down and meddling with our lives to amuse themselves and being sent to the Elysian Fields (heaven) or to Tartarus (hell) when we die.

It's not a popular view for sure and I'm sure to get blasted for it but the fact remains that the idea itself is foreign to me and I have trouble understanding the utter conviction of belief that I sometimes see in people.

And yes I do have spiritual beliefs just not any tied to a particular religion.

[teflonfanatic]

God, hell and what happens after death is completely covered in the Bible, if one doesn't care what the Bible says...then why worry about hell?   I'm posting a link to a site that covers the thread topic according to the Bible (http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell) the information given is similiar to what I believe (except the part about the death of animals, because there are no Scriptures to 100% back the statement made there).  There's so much posted on FC about "How can God send anyone to hell" and "What kind of God would send a good person to hell"?  I think the answer to those kind of questions can be found best by studying what got Satan into trouble with God.   Hell was originally supposed to be for him and the other fallen angels.  In the Bible, in Ezekiel it speaks of  Satan---the highest of God's creatures, perfect in wisdom, beautiful beyond description, a musician and on top of all that, he was given this high, exalted position. But, this creation, with all of these wonderful attributes also had a free will.   Isaiah 14:12, tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High."   Notice in this passage all of the "I wills?"  Satan does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him.  Eve believed the lie that she would be like God.  The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God.   People were also given free will.  Those that don't want to be God's servant, those that do not want to do what they were created to do, those who wish to be "God" of their life have committed the same sin as satan and so will be condemned to spend a eternity with him and the other fallen angels.  It's about MORE than whether or not a person "believes" in God, satan believes in God and he's still going to hell.  It's about do you believe in God enough to let him be God of your life?   Will you do what God created you to do?  Will you choose Him, serve Him and trust in Him....Are you willing to serve Him with your life or ar you spending your life serving yourself??   To not do so, makes one try to "play God" of their own life.  It makes one guilty of the same sin of satan.  It doesn't matter how "good" a person is...satan was originally the BEST of the BEST angels.

That verse is about a fallen king it has nothing to do with Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does the bible say about death(a non JW agrees with the JW's view on hell :-D)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related

[madeara]

Yes, it says so in The Bible.

[mattymatt79]

Unless you're mentally ill, everything you have ever done has been willing and on purpose and intentional...whether it be good or bad.

The argument in the article is for showing the christian god is a fatalist-- that free-will is a hoax if you're christian. And since that's inarguably the case, there's only 2 ways of looking at it.
1.) He is either very imperfect
2.) or he is maniacally evil

This has nothing to do with mental illness. Do you understand?

Just because some people are just bad people doesn't mean God has to make us all robots with a non thinking mind who just follows his commands. What kind of life would that be?

Like I said, according to what christians believe, you are already a robot since christianity has flawed reasonings pertaining to free-will. If you think the christian god is omnipotent/perfect, everything you do is predetermined by god, therefore there is no free-will. The only problem is that you don't know what this deity thinks up for each individual, but that's pathetic cop-out reasoning at best and skips the point completely. And I bet it will be used by anyone who wants to take a swing at this article.

That's what Calvinist's think and is definitely not what the majority of Christian denominations think. Predestination is associated mostly with Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist religions or nondenominational charismatic churches.

This varies greatly from the churches that take their faith directly from Catholicism minor off-shoots; like Anglican's, Episcopal, Lutheran who believe solely in free-will and we as the individual have the opportunity to find salvation.

[Falconer02]

That's what Calvinist's think and is definitely not what the majority of Christian denominations think. Predestination is associated mostly with Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist religions or nondenominational charismatic churches.

This varies greatly from the churches that take their faith directly from Catholicism minor off-shoots; like Anglican's, Episcopal, Lutheran who believe solely in free-will and we as the individual have the opportunity to find salvation.

You make a decent point there in separating them. Though the flaw still remains of this god either having malicious intent or being imperfect and having every Christian thinking otherwise. I really can't think of any example that could challenge this basic idea without falling under a massive consequence of belief.

[c2deryke2]

Not scary at all. I dont believe in Hell. To me it is a fairy tale world, and the only way it will ever happen is if you dont make santa's list and find all the bunny's eggs. So, in the end, I guess the answer is this: It doesn' matter:)

[dell9031]

Really?  Of all the religions in the word and belief systems...you are assuming everyone on this forum knows what you are talking about and the context with which you ask the question......so I will presume you are speaking to the judeo-christian lot?  PLease qualify your question and the audience you are wanting a response from.

[teflonfanatic]

Yes, it says so in The Bible.

Please watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related

[Trebor64]

Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

[jcribb16]

Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

You should also post this over in the thread "I don't believe in the devil or hell."

[teflonfanatic]

Try this on for a scripture about Hell. King James Bible Luke 16: 19-26 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx0mqQXGeTg

Video picks up at 3 minutes and explains this PARABLE