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Topic: Debates & Religions  (Read 721 times)

tartarsauce2008

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Debates & Religions
« on: July 22, 2011, 07:22:38 pm »
So, I noticed a trend here: whenever there's an argument, there's always someone somewhere that masks his/her standpoint behind a religious belief even though the topic isn't even relevant to that of religions. Why do people do this? It's unnecessary, and it makes people think that believers are shoving religions down their throats. It's probably why many nonbelievers have this... animosity against believers.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...


Falconer02

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 09:51:43 pm »
Good point. Do you see any freethinking/atheist/agnostic threads where we push our beliefs? Rarely. But we do debate and slide our opinion/beliefs without animosity. We keep it to ourselves unless provoked into showing how reality actually is. When you see 500 "END OF THE WORLD" threads preaching about amargeddon, threads containing gay bashing and bible verses, or threads containing such things as "Believe in god-- it's better for society!" with absolutely no understanding of the statistics of what they're saying, you bet you're going to get someone to stand up and antagonize because those users are shoving their POV's down others' throats and spreading false/naive information. It gets annoying and we have to set it straight. Well...we don't have to. But might as well earn those 3 dollas, eh?

Granted there are a few peaceful individuals that post good discussion threads and such *cough*Amyrouse*cough*, there's just an insane amount of religious threads if you go through D+D's history.

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 07:05:06 am »
Good point. Do you see any freethinking/atheist/agnostic threads where we push our beliefs? Rarely. But we do debate and slide our opinion/beliefs without animosity. We keep it to ourselves unless provoked into showing how reality actually is. When you see 500 "END OF THE WORLD" threads preaching about amargeddon, threads containing gay bashing and bible verses, or threads containing such things as "Believe in god-- it's better for society!" with absolutely no understanding of the statistics of what they're saying, you bet you're going to get someone to stand up and antagonize because those users are shoving their POV's down others' throats and spreading false/naive information. It gets annoying and we have to set it straight. Well...we don't have to. But might as well earn those 3 dollas, eh?

Granted there are a few peaceful individuals that post good discussion threads and such *cough*Amyrouse*cough*, there's just an insane amount of religious threads if you go through D+D's history.

What I hate about those that do shove religion down everyone's throats is that they're hypocritical themselves. A lot of them are against the gays and lesbians and what not, and a lot of them are against politics and leaders just because those who are being discussed might not be religious. I'm a Christian, and I've read the Bible through because I had to take religion and I go to church every Saturdays and Sundays, and I'm pretty sure that It says "God loves everyone." While that might not be the exact line, but it's the point of the message. Religions are basically cults. They want the followers to sacrifice their lives and previous beliefs to the new ones, and they want them to spread the message. Yes, the Bible did say," Go and make disciples of every nation." From my perspective, it says "go and make" not "go to make," so why convert everyone? Besides, He gave us "free will." I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give you a day's worth of rant, but it just annoys me that most "Christians" won't even befriend atheists or agnostics because they think that those kinds of people are evil.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

Falconer02

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 11:35:14 am »
Quote
What I hate about those that do shove religion down everyone's throats is that they're hypocritical themselves. A lot of them are against the gays and lesbians and what not, and a lot of them are against politics and leaders just because those who are being discussed might not be religious. I'm a Christian, and I've read the Bible through because I had to take religion and I go to church every Saturdays and Sundays, and I'm pretty sure that It says "God loves everyone."

I'm glad you have your head on straight and believe this because most religious people take the stance that "God loves everyone (terms and conditions apply)".

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Religions are basically cults.

Basically, yes.

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He gave us "free will."

I always had problems with this belief because if a god knows everything (past/present/future), it can't allow for freewill since everything is known prior to it happening.

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but it just annoys me that most "Christians" won't even befriend atheists or agnostics because they think that those kinds of people are evil.

a lot of my friends are of the religious breed and we've had some interesting conversations. Very rarely do I meet those who are just complete idiots who decide to insult you someway somehow. To me it's just the same as having a different political stance.

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 12:13:28 pm »

a lot of my friends are of the religious breed and we've had some interesting conversations. Very rarely do I meet those who are just complete idiots who decide to insult you someway somehow. To me it's just the same as having a different political stance.

Exactly, and many of the so-called "religious" people can't and don't want to listen to a different point of view.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

footemama

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 12:31:32 pm »
I mostly avoid the Debate and Discuss portion for just this reason. I will occasionally feel strongly enough about something to read through and post something but I get put off easily by people that use only one thing, such as their religion, to base an entire debate on. The purpose of a debate is to discuss something, preferably using facts, to try to persuade somebody to your point of view. I'm sorry but "gays are evil because they go against God" is just not an argument for me. One it's a HUGE generalization about a very diverse group of people and two if you are going to say a group of people is evil then you had better have something to back it up. Crime statistics or something for example.

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 12:35:09 pm »
I mostly avoid the Debate and Discuss portion for just this reason. I will occasionally feel strongly enough about something to read through and post something but I get put off easily by people that use only one thing, such as their religion, to base an entire debate on. The purpose of a debate is to discuss something, preferably using facts, to try to persuade somebody to your point of view. I'm sorry but "gays are evil because they go against God" is just not an argument for me. One it's a HUGE generalization about a very diverse group of people and two if you are going to say a group of people is evil then you had better have something to back it up. Crime statistics or something for example.

That's why when you take a class on oratory or just a basic English class, they teach you to give emotional, physical, and factual appeals, not religious appeals. Hiding behind religion doesn't make you religious; in fact, in my opinion, it makes you look like a coward, a mere child who clings onto his mom's leg when he gets in trouble.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

footemama

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 12:49:58 pm »
Sadly it's really hard to get an actually "debate" going in an on-line forum. I have only found one forum that had a debate board that actually could have a debate about gays in the military or abortion or something without it becoming a mud-slinging religious meltdown.

Maybe we should all practice our debate skills on something like "which of the primary colors is the best". ;)

I found that even in college debates would get hung up on the religion factor. We attempted to discuss a woman having a man's child after he is deceased via having his sperm stored and using it later. It did not take long for it to get WAY off course. I took the debate "home" to a friend of mine (completely opposite viewpoints on religion and politics) and we had an awesome discussion about it. Even got her husband involved. I miss my afternoon-long talks with her. :)

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 01:46:05 pm »
Sadly it's really hard to get an actually "debate" going in an on-line forum. I have only found one forum that had a debate board that actually could have a debate about gays in the military or abortion or something without it becoming a mud-slinging religious meltdown.

Maybe we should all practice our debate skills on something like "which of the primary colors is the best". ;)

I found that even in college debates would get hung up on the religion factor. We attempted to discuss a woman having a man's child after he is deceased via having his sperm stored and using it later. It did not take long for it to get WAY off course. I took the debate "home" to a friend of mine (completely opposite viewpoints on religion and politics) and we had an awesome discussion about it. Even got her husband involved. I miss my afternoon-long talks with her. :)

Like you said, it doesn't only happen online. My mom and the rest of my family always hide behind religion. It makes me sick.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

Falconer02

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 10:52:55 pm »
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Like you said, it doesn't only happen online. My mom and the rest of my family always hide behind religion. It makes me sick.

I feel the same way sometimes, but it shouldn't. I mean to me it's just a really annoying trait that shows the person's close-mindedness (and sometimes outright stupidity) on dealing with real life topics. Hell, I got accused of being a demon in this forum because I brought up the freewill argument.  :angry7: The fact that you can sit above it and see them hide should give you a sense of satisfaction since you have a larger amount of relevant knowledge than them. Just remember this saying-

"People who believe completely illogical things usually have 1000's of years of messed up logic to ward off your attempts at reason."

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2011, 10:21:59 am »
Quote
Like you said, it doesn't only happen online. My mom and the rest of my family always hide behind religion. It makes me sick.

I feel the same way sometimes, but it shouldn't. I mean to me it's just a really annoying trait that shows the person's close-mindedness (and sometimes outright stupidity) on dealing with real life topics. Hell, I got accused of being a demon in this forum because I brought up the freewill argument.  :angry7: The fact that you can sit above it and see them hide should give you a sense of satisfaction since you have a larger amount of relevant knowledge than them. Just remember this saying-

"People who believe completely illogical things usually have 1000's of years of messed up logic to ward off your attempts at reason."

Sir, where is your medal?
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

sdecaro558

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 08:19:28 am »
I'm very religious, and that is reflected in my views and understandings of things.  Yet I wouldn't say I shove my opinions down anyone's throat.  Live and let live is my motto in regards to debates.  To me, debates and discussions are fine so long as feelings aren't hurt and they don't turn into senseless arguments (case in point: America's politicians in Washington argue without discussing, and consequently get nothing productive done).  To me, some people are so opposed to religion in general that any religious viewpoint or opinion based on a religious understanding is immediately considered invalid and unworthy of discussion.  Mutual respect of varying opinions is key in any debate.

tartarsauce2008

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 01:48:04 pm »
I'm very religious, and that is reflected in my views and understandings of things.  Yet I wouldn't say I shove my opinions down anyone's throat.  Live and let live is my motto in regards to debates.  To me, debates and discussions are fine so long as feelings aren't hurt and they don't turn into senseless arguments (case in point: America's politicians in Washington argue without discussing, and consequently get nothing productive done).  To me, some people are so opposed to religion in general that any religious viewpoint or opinion based on a religious understanding is immediately considered invalid and unworthy of discussion.  Mutual respect of varying opinions is key in any debate.

I don't have a problem with people to incorporate a religious side as long as it's relevant to the topic and as long as they don't keep quoting from the Bible. I'm a Christian, but I absolutely hate when people hide behind religion.
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind...

dbower

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 02:05:12 pm »
My view on religion is this: I don't really care what you believe because it is irrelevant to how you are as a person. Treat other properly and that is all the matters.  With that being said, don't press your religion on me.  I don't want to hear why you think I need to be saved or something.  As long as you keep your religion to yourself, I have no problem.
One more thing that bugs me.  Believe whatever you want to believe, but have a good reason for your beliefs.  I'm not saying you cannot believe something, but being a christian because your parents were to me is not a good reason.  If you think it makes you a better person, that's fine.
Those are the only times I judge people on religion. If you push your religion on me, I don't like it.  And it interests me as to why people believe for no reason(not to say that most people don't have a good reason for their beliefs).

wiersmak

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Re: Debates & Religions
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 07:51:47 pm »
[/i]My view on religion is this: I don't really care what you believe because it is irrelevant to how you are as a person. Treat other properly and that is all the matters.  With that being said, don't press your religion on me.  I don't want to hear why you think I need to be saved or something.  As long as you keep your religion to yourself, I have no problem.
One more thing that bugs me.  Believe whatever you want to believe, but have a good reason for your beliefs.  I'm not saying you cannot believe something, but being a christian because your parents were to me is not a good reason.  If you think it makes you a better person, that's fine.
Those are the only times I judge people on religion. If you push your religion on me, I don't like it.  And it interests me as to why people believe for no reason(not to say that most people don't have a good reason for their beliefs).[/i]


I couldnt agree with you more.  My faith sustains me, but I have friends that are atheist and agnostic, and friends of different religions.  To each his own.  Im not intersted in converting anyone, and dont believe that youre damned if you dont share my beliefs.  At the same time, I dont want to be ridiculed because I happen to be religious.  It seems to me that there are people on both sides that are only for "diversity" of beliefs only when it agrees with thier view.

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