If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, do you still celebrate Christmas?

[falcon9]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

That is incorrect.  The tree was preceded by "yule" celebrations, a pagan holiday which takes place on the day of the winter solstice, around December 21 and preceded the xtian holiday by centuries.  In turn, yule was preceded by druid and other pagan practices by several more centuries.  All this goes to substantiate the fact that xtianity was composed of cultural thieves who were apparently engaged in a practice of co-opting other religious practices in order to suppress/absorb them.  No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

The fact that pagans used a tree in their festivities (by your admission) centuries before Christians has no correlation to the fact that Christians used the evergreen as a symbol of Christ's eternal life in the 15th or 16th century.There was no competition with Saturnalia festivals at that point.

Right, no correlation at all - except for the fact that pagans were using it during the 15th/16th centuries, (yule logs), at the time the xtians appropriated, (stole), the concept to reapply it to a xtian usage.  Saturnalia was more commonly celebrated well before the 15th/16th centuries so, the "competition" the early church feared was with norse and northern European pagans of the 15th/16th centuries, (among other time periods).  Their method of dealing with such "competition" was to rip-off other cultural beliefs, alter them slighty and incorporate them into xtianity in order to insidiously deceive pagans into thinking they could still engage in pagan practices within xtianity.  There is an enormous amount of evidence to support these dishonest actions by early xtians.  Latter xtians apparently can't stomach some of the core concepts of their "religion" being the products of cultural theft.  That's a damned shame, isn't it?

[JediJohnnie]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

That is incorrect.  The tree was preceded by "yule" celebrations, a pagan holiday which takes place on the day of the winter solstice, around December 21 and preceded the xtian holiday by centuries.  In turn, yule was preceded by druid and other pagan practices by several more centuries.  All this goes to substantiate the fact that xtianity was composed of cultural thieves who were apparently engaged in a practice of co-opting other religious practices in order to suppress/absorb them.  No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

The fact that pagans used a tree in their festivities (by your admission) centuries before Christians has no correlation to the fact that Christians used the evergreen as a symbol of Christ's eternal life in the 15th or 16th century.There was no competition with Saturnalia festivals at that point.

Right, no correlation at all - except for the fact that pagans were using it during the 15th/16th centuries, (yule logs), at the time the xtians appropriated, (stole), the concept to reapply it to a xtian usage.  Saturnalia was more commonly celebrated well before the 15th/16th centuries so, the "competition" the early church feared was with norse and northern European pagans of the 15th/16th centuries, (among other time periods).  Their method of dealing with such "competition" was to rip-off other cultural beliefs, alter them slighty and incorporate them into xtianity in order to insidiously deceive pagans into thinking they could still engage in pagan practices within xtianity.  There is an enormous amount of evidence to support these dishonest actions by early xtians.  Latter xtians apparently can't stomach some of the core concepts of their "religion" being the products of cultural theft.  That's a damned shame, isn't it?

Firstly,the fact that pagans used trees (or "Yule logs")for their festivals is hardly grounds for considering it "theft" when Christians used Christmas Trees for their own purpose.(As far as I know,a tree can't be patented!)

But secondly,Christmas trees were made popular in Germany in the 16th century.The custom evolved over time from two Christian traditions. One was a “paradise tree” hung with apples as a reminder of the tree of life in the garden of Eden. The other was a triangular shelf holding Christmas figurines decorated by a star. In the 16th century, these two symbols merged into the present Christmas tree tradition. (as I said before,by your own admission) Pagans had their festivities prior centuries,and in another country.It's fairly ludicrous to believe that every concept of Christian celebration was a deliberate aping of pagan customs.

 

[falcon9]

A lot of people try to make a big deal over the Christmas Tree and how it relates to Christmas.The fact is,the Christmas tree became popular in the 16th century loooong after everyone (apart from modern Atheists,apparently) had forgotten festivals to pagan deities.

That is incorrect.  The tree was preceded by "yule" celebrations, a pagan holiday which takes place on the day of the winter solstice, around December 21 and preceded the xtian holiday by centuries.  In turn, yule was preceded by druid and other pagan practices by several more centuries.  All this goes to substantiate the fact that xtianity was composed of cultural thieves who were apparently engaged in a practice of co-opting other religious practices in order to suppress/absorb them.  No doubt xtians are pleased that xmas won't be accurately greeted with 'Merry Cultural Theft Day' any time soon.

The fact that pagans used a tree in their festivities (by your admission) centuries before Christians has no correlation to the fact that Christians used the evergreen as a symbol of Christ's eternal life in the 15th or 16th century.There was no competition with Saturnalia festivals at that point.

Right, no correlation at all - except for the fact that pagans were using it during the 15th/16th centuries, (yule logs), at the time the xtians appropriated, (stole), the concept to reapply it to a xtian usage.  Saturnalia was more commonly celebrated well before the 15th/16th centuries so, the "competition" the early church feared was with norse and northern European pagans of the 15th/16th centuries, (among other time periods).  Their method of dealing with such "competition" was to rip-off other cultural beliefs, alter them slighty and incorporate them into xtianity in order to insidiously deceive pagans into thinking they could still engage in pagan practices within xtianity.  There is an enormous amount of evidence to support these dishonest actions by early xtians.  Latter xtians apparently can't stomach some of the core concepts of their "religion" being the products of cultural theft.  That's a damned shame, isn't it?

Firstly,the fact that pagans used trees (or "Yule logs")for their festivals is hardly grounds for considering it "theft" when Christians used Christmas Trees for their own purpose.(As far as I know,a tree can't be patented!)

Nothing was said about patent infringements, (or copyright infringements, for that matter).  The concept of cultural theft includes the appropriation of another culture's religious precepts, (stealing aspects of their belief systems), and altering them to some new paradigm - like the xtians have done.  Since the pre-existing pagan cultural practice associated with yule logs had nothing whatsoever to do with xtianity, (nor did the subsequent cultural theft of that practice have anything to the xtian religion until the time of that theft), we have evidence of xtian plagiarism.

But secondly,Christmas trees were made popular in Germany in the 16th century.The custom evolved over time from two Christian traditions.

What is the reference source for your contention?  In Northern Europe, Winter festivities were once considered to be a Feast of the Dead, complete with ceremonies full of spirits, devils, and the haunting presence of the Norse god, Odin, and his night riders. One particularly durable Solstice festival was "Jol" (also known as "Jule" and pronounced "Yule"), a feast celebrated throughout Northern Europe and particularly in Scandinavia to honor Jolnir, another name for Odin. Since Odin was the god of intoxicating drink and ecstasy, as well as the god of death, Yule customs varied greatly from region to region.  This practice extended back before 1000 BC, well before the 16th century.

Pagans had their festivities prior centuries,and in another country.It's fairly ludicrous to believe that every concept of Christian celebration was a deliberate aping of pagan customs.

Firstly, northern Europe includes what is now Germany, so these practices occurred there and well as in Scandinavian countries.  Secondly,I never
stated that "every" pagan practice was stolen or "aped" by xtians; I maintained that certain specific ones were ripped-off by xtians in order to absorb extant pagan practices into xtianity.  Evidence of these cultural thefts exists in abundance and is nonambiguous.  Your religion has a basis in theft and dishonesty and yet, apparently requires trust in the form of "faith".  Now there's a ludicrous xtian idea.

 

[hwilliams591]

In our household Christmas is all about the kids, tree and presents. No one even has Jesus on their mind.
Christmas is a day of giving gifts and love to love ones...thats it.

[vivian1003]

 

[Getinonthis]

There's a lot of things that people do in recognition to Jesus Christ without even noticing it.
Ignorance is bliss, monkey see monkey do, people are like a leaf blowing in the wind until they
come across something that seems to wake them up.
I personally believe in Jesus, and I do celebrate Christmas. My focus is not on the day of
which I celebrate his birth, but on the purpose of his birth. Merry Christmas!!

I like the way you put this.  It's the focus that is of importance of why we celebrate certain holidays.

Without purpose efforts fail, and without focus distraction occurs.
Like you said it's the focus that's important as to why we recognize and hold fast to certain holidays.
If a child is born on a 9:11 for e.g. does that mean we shouldn't celebrate his birthday?
Importance override certain historical event, (Its a move called CHANGE). it's an individual/personal choice.

[jcribb16]

There's a lot of things that people do in recognition to Jesus Christ without even noticing it.
Ignorance is bliss, monkey see monkey do, people are like a leaf blowing in the wind until they
come across something that seems to wake them up.
I personally believe in Jesus, and I do celebrate Christmas. My focus is not on the day of
which I celebrate his birth, but on the purpose of his birth. Merry Christmas!!

I like the way you put this.  It's the focus that is of importance of why we celebrate certain holidays.

Without purpose efforts fail, and without focus distraction occurs.
Like you said it's the focus that's important as to why we recognize and hold fast to certain holidays.
If a child is born on a 9:11 for e.g. does that mean we shouldn't celebrate his birthday?
Importance override certain historical event, (Its a move called CHANGE). it's an individual/personal choice.

[joseadam]

I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A CHRISTIAN!!  I BELIEVE IN CHRIST! I also believe that Christmas is the day that Jesus was born.  I celebrate Christmas as his birthday.  I also celebrate it with the gifts, decorations, and Santa Claus.  I do this for my two small children.  They believe in Santa, but they also know it is Jesus birthday. As a matter of fact, on Christmas morning my oldest child says Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday Jesus!  He knows the what Christmas is and will help tell his baby brother when he is old enough to understand.  I hate it when people take Christ out of Christmas.  I correct anyone who comes up to me and tells me Merry Xmas or Happy Holidays!  I look at them and say Merry Christmas!  I understand people have different beliefs, but don't down play mine! If I know you celebrate other holidays such as Kwanza or Hanukkah then I would say Happy Kwanza or Happy Hanukkah.  I would not down play it.  I will respect their religions as long as they respect mine.  That is what is wrong with world today, people don't respect other people for who they are, what they believe in, and their cultures.   

[teflonfanatic]

I do, but I'd be just as happy not to.
And I'm with others, what does Santa have to do with Christ? Unless you go to church or pray or something, none of the regular Christmas things, like the tree, have anything to do with a religion that is still celebrated in modern times.
And in pre-modern times, it was a Jew killing holiday. So yeah.
The commercialism is just another strain on families that aren't doing so well in this economy.
Previously, in our family, we'd draw names and have all year to buy gifts just for one other family member's family (there's a lot of brothers and sisters and their kids in my family) and maybe some little gifts for all the kids.
Lately, the last couple years, it's just been a get-together and eat day, with only gifts given beforehand among the individual family. It's working out better, a lot less stress and strife, even if some people weren't quite as happy at first. Just little things given to the kids.
I'm happy if gifts are reserved instead for birthdays or spontaneous "saw this and thought of you!" times or just little party favor type things for the kids.

And before this question comes up, we celebrate Easter too. Because the Easter bunny and egg hunts also have nothing to do with a religion that is still celebrated in modern times.

"The commercialism is just another strain on families that aren't doing so well in this economy."

That sentence right there is the reason my mom stopped celebrating the holiday(this is whenI wasn't studying with the JW's_, I forever hate all holidays because of this and I can get together with my family without celebrating them MAKE ANOTHER EXCUSE PEOPLE!!!!

[Stealth3si]

Do those who do not believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible still celebrate Christmas with gifts, decorations, and all of the festivities?  I'm sure they enjoy the day off with pay if they are blessed with a job that gives holiday pay!  It seems like a lot of money is spent and a lot of festivites enjoyed if the true reason for the celebration is omitted.

Sure, why not?

[constance312003]

I believe in Jesus and celebrate his birthday on Dec 25th.  I have studied this also and do not believe Jesus was born on the 25th of Dec.  I do think it is possible that the 25th was the day the Holy Spirit entered Mary and Jesus was conceived.

[teflonfanatic]

I believe in Jesus and celebrate his birthday on Dec 25th.  I have studied this also and do not believe Jesus was born on the 25th of Dec.  I do think it is possible that the 25th was the day the Holy Spirit entered Mary and Jesus was conceived.

You dear sir or maam 0_0 contradict yourself you say you celebrate his birthday on the 25th yet don't believe he was born on the 25th, then you say you believe by holy spirit he was conceived on the 25th??!!! This will mean that you celebrate his conception and not his birth???!!!!

[falcon9]

I believe in Jesus and celebrate his birthday on Dec 25th.  I have studied this also and do not believe Jesus was born on the 25th of Dec.  I do think it is possible that the 25th was the day the Holy Spirit entered Mary and Jesus was conceived.

You dear sir or maam 0_0 contradict yourself you say you celebrate his birthday on the 25th yet don't believe he was born on the 25th, then you say you believe by holy spirit he was conceived on the 25th??!!! This will mean that you celebrate his conception and not his birth???!!!!
 

More precisely, what's being directly implied there is a celebration of a "possible" 'immaculate conception'.  Naturally, such magical acts as 'immaculate conceptions' are not considered to be magical acts when they're the "works of god", (that's only if magic isn't magic, depending upon who's supposedly doing it of course).

[teflonfanatic]

I believe in Jesus and celebrate his birthday on Dec 25th.  I have studied this also and do not believe Jesus was born on the 25th of Dec.  I do think it is possible that the 25th was the day the Holy Spirit entered Mary and Jesus was conceived.

You dear sir or maam 0_0 contradict yourself you say you celebrate his birthday on the 25th yet don't believe he was born on the 25th, then you say you believe by holy spirit he was conceived on the 25th??!!! This will mean that you celebrate his conception and not his birth???!!!!
 

More precisely, what's being directly implied there is a celebration of a "possible" 'immaculate conception'.  Naturally, such magical acts as 'immaculate conceptions' are not considered to be magical acts when they're the "works of god", (that's only if magic isn't magic, depending upon who's supposedly doing it of course).

I agree there's clear bias in holybooks on whats magic or not, if a miracle is performed by God or through his servants it's not magic but a miracle, however if miracles are performed by God'senemies such as demons or followers of demons then it's magic instead of a miracle.  Also according to the trinity this is much more literal then an act of God, the holy spirit which is a person(if your trinitaria maryn or modalist) had literal sex with mary... Good thing my religion teaches that the holy spirit is a fore and not a person...

[gemini0314]

I do not believe in Jesus but I still celebrate Christmas because my parents believe in Him and because it is about spending time with your family and I feel it is wrong to not give gifts to Children for Christmas when you know every other child is getting them and yours will be left out and even resent you for it.  I also dont believe as many people believe in Jesus as they say they do, church seems like one big social gathering to me and thats not how its supposed to be.