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Topic: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.  (Read 3154 times)

jsuderc

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 11:09:55 am »
Our troops are not overseas because they are to have fun. Much of their purpose is to help others discover freedom and to protect our own. As much as we miss them, it is one of the costs of freedom. Let us not underestimate that.

Flackle

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 10:38:38 pm »
And I do not understand why we have so many troops overseas besides Iraq :dontknow:

Uh...because stuff happens in the world besides Iraq!

I don't understand what some of you have against our military being in foreign countries...as someone who got to live in England for 2.5 years, it can be a wonderful experience.

What if china was allowed to build a military base in, lets say, Colorado? Let us assume that the base begins to terrorize the local populous by searching through houses, marching and drilling through the streets, and begin to abduct people from their homes and force people to defend themselves.

Lets say that they did so by the consent of the government but not by the consent of the people. Lets say that the people begin to revolt. They speak out against this military base being there and soon gets out of hand. Lets say that speaking out against occupation by china becomes a criminal act. That because of certain individuals in our country begin to take arms, any opposition to china no matter how peaceful becomes a terrorist threat in their eyes and they begin to seek out and destroy these individuals.

We wouldn't tolerate the permanent occupation of our country by another, and yet we expect other countries to do so at our will and label all opposition as terrorist (even US citizens who oppose the occupation of other countries). This idea of preemptive war, that occupation and policing other countries, is there to prevent wars and to prevent opposition to our country even though its this very occupation that fuels hatred towards us. Its self-defeating, expensive, and actually makes our country weaker by spreading out our decreasing numbers of troops. Do you now understand what I have against this militarist empire our nation is building?

Our troops are not overseas because they are to have fun. Much of their purpose is to help others discover freedom and to protect our own. As much as we miss them, it is one of the costs of freedom. Let us not underestimate that.

And yet their hampering the development of other countries by making them dependent on us as we continue to support governments that are in our government's best interest and not in the interest of the people in those countries as well as our own. Building up an empire across the world will not make us safer. It will actually lead to our undoing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 10:56:08 pm by Flackle »

falcon9

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2011, 10:53:05 pm »
What if china was allowed to build a military base in, lets say, Colorado?


What, after U.S. citizens began to hijack Chinese passenger aircraft and crash them into the Forbidden City?  Or, was that just an unfounded premise to obliquely support actual terrorism?  Something major would have had to occur for the U.S. to get a Chinese military base sprouting up in Colorado.  Since you're speculating speciously, under what type of scenario are you implicitly suggesting this could occur?


Let us assume ...
Lets say ...  
Lets say ...  
We wouldn't tolerate the permanent occupation of our country by another, and yet we expect other countries to do so at our will and label all opposition as terrorist attacks (even US citizens who oppose the occupation of other countries).


In case you missed it, we didn't put bases in other countries 'at will'; these were the result of previous actions by either the governments of those countries, (Germany, Japan, Korea, Vietnam), mutual defense treaties or, prior/current terrorist actions supported by those countries.
Conversely, the U.S. did _not_ invade Poland on a thin pretext, (*bleep* Germany), bomb Pearl Harbor, (imperialist Japan), attack Seoul, (North Korea), attack Saigon, (North Vietnam), nor fly aircraft into Chinese skyscrapers.  


This idea of preemptive war, that occupation and policing other countries, is there to prevent wars and to prevent opposition to our country even though its this very occupation that fuels hatred towards us.


Beats nuking them, doesn't it?


Its self-defeating, expensive, and actually makes our country weaker by spreading out our decreasing numbers of troops. Do you now understand what I have against this militarist empire our nation is building?


I can understand your opposition to a certain extent however, you might want to build it from a more valid premise.  Generally, the alternative to withdrawing all U.S./NATO troops from other countries is isolationism ... and that worked so well prior to WWI too.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 10:55:00 pm by falcon9 »
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

Graeth

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2011, 11:44:51 pm »


Beats nuking them, doesn't it?



Depends. You have to weigh the amount of paperwork.
Attaining nuclear access and launch codes versus all the paperwork for all the dead soldiers, the material logistics, reporters, press statements etc.
One rubber stamp versus all the letters home to families and next of kin....seems like a no brainer.
But of course, getting re-elected is whole lot easier when you've never made a decision--that way there's nothing for people to hold against you.

queenofnines

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 07:24:48 am »
We wouldn't tolerate the permanent occupation of our country by another, and yet we expect other countries to do so at our will and label all opposition as terrorist (even US citizens who oppose the occupation of other countries). This idea of preemptive war, that occupation and policing other countries, is there to prevent wars and to prevent opposition to our country even though its this very occupation that fuels hatred towards us. Its self-defeating, expensive, and actually makes our country weaker by spreading out our decreasing numbers of troops.

I understand what you're saying.  However, not all of the countries that we occupy do we have a, dare I say "militant" presence in.  A lot of bases actually provide jobs for the locals.  I, for one, think it's a smarter move on our part to be closer to whatever's going on for military intelligence purposes.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

pirewolf

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2011, 08:44:16 am »
It would seem to me alot of people do not actually understand what happens when troops are over seas. For instance we do not go around rounding up people for no reason, and just because China does not have a base he does not mean anything. Do you even know how many none military americans are in China? If they wanted to they could do that there. Also do you really think in any way that the govenment would stand by while alot of people just went missing and people were randomly marching our streets in a devious manner? Plus I also don't think you have any idea how many troops are in colorado. Colorado Springs for instance has 4 military bases itself. And if you knew anything about any of those bases you would know they would never let them put one in Colorado. It's not like we didn't have to come to an agreement with the surrounding civilians to put those bases there in the first place right. Oh but we did! Not to mention the fact that most changes to the base if expeanding in anyway have to be talked of with the community, I can not believe you would think there would not be more consideration in that matter.
Plus the troops might but will probably not be pulled out all the way, do to the fact that yes we do not normally pull out fully. But the bases over seas are needed for many reasons. One some countries are still considered dangerous. Two yes even though it is not meant to be a vacation or fun trip, we are not at war everywhere, and everyone needs and deserves to be able to have fun. Otherwise while you are at home and all warm and cozy, but still have to go to work a the whole next week. You shouldn't be aloud to go see a movie or do to disney land, cause you in your city to work. That is not any more true anywhere else. If people dont have some down time they get sloppy. My husband was just over seas, so I know what they do and did. It seems like some people dont really understand what happens past what is happening to them. You act like people from other countries are not already aloud to come and go as they please. Someone with the right paperwork can do the same damage as without. Three we need to be able to get back and forth easily. Four just because we are not at war does not mean there is not some job we have to do. Most of the time it is political meetings and what not, however most of the time we are just trying to contribute somewhere else. People barely understand how important the base is in the city they live in here, but it is also important overseas if we have something they need more of. Even if that is just us waiting for them to say so. Where I live people are actively fighting the expansion of a military base here. What they don't understand is that it will help the economy, depending on how the government changes the military benifits. More people in your area raises the money going through and help create jobs. Also I understand why the people in afghan need to come home. But those other bases are astablished and mostly safe, nothing is completely safe. Lets say however that we did bring all the troops home. Has anyone considered what would happen on our side at all. Everyone is debating weither we are actually neede there, but did anyone consider the changes the government is trying to put into change now! If we brought all the troops home and alot of the changes go through, we will have more problems then we had before. We already do not have enought jobs here for lots of people. Does anyone know how many vets are on the streets, or getting their benifits cut? How many changes are being made so it will be easier for people to get kicked out of the military? They are planning on trying to take away BAH and tution assistatance. How many people can afford college on their own right now? But you cant get a job without it, cause their are so many people that went to college still out of work. If they take away the BAH do most people even have any idea what the military makes, cause I do! Without it our family of four will be homeless, unless we can get onbase before then. Base pay still quailifies us for food stamps if that helps none military understand. So having them all come back with no BAH will cause the people with families to have no place to go. If you are single you have dorms, but their is barely enough housing right now for most people. And even if you make it on base, they dont pay you BAH because it goes straight to the rent home company. So how will they get paid then? Afghan is dangerous, but most of the others are not. Infact most of the ones that are still considered danger zones are just a precausion, which everyone needs to be carefull to a point to servive.
I'm just saying, lets keep things in the rational. Even with the government in charge of alot of things they do not have the ultimate control, it just feels like it. We vote people in and out of office, just more people should be voting. And we can always protest anything, or say no to something up for vote it there is enough people. I mean really think for a second, cause people talk about home much they miss the troops. Really, I know I did cause it was my husband, but come on. None of his or my family came to see him since he has been back. His birthday is this week and none of his family ever calls to even tell him happy birthday. I know some families are really close, as mine is, but really think about the person you love or know in the military. How often did you see that person when they were stationed here. Most people don't. We have a friend who hasn't seen him mom in over a year, and the only reason he is about to go home is for his step dad's funneral. The reason we want them home is to know they are safe, not because you miss them. Most of the people our military that come home get greated by their wife/husband and kids plus their military friends and coworkers. Family does not normally come to see them unless they live within an hours drive. I have seen it more than once. Just keep life in prespective. We are all trying to just servive and be happy in the process. The difference is if you servive while helping other people, or only making sure you are happy. I say this because their are lots of things to be fixed, but there are some you can do this month. There is a sponsership you can do if you really want to support our troops. I am doing it, and I think lots more should. Sponser an Airman for thanksgiving. We can't even get home for Christmas, most can't but we have two kids to spend the holidays with. If you can't for Christmas what chance does thanksgiving have. You can sign up or just see someone and offer to invite a single airman who will be alone for Thanksgiving for dinner that night. The military personnel has made the choice to go to these places right or wrong to try to help everyone. Anyone who can so them some love on Thanksgivings, and wants to help should. We did it last year too, and that person hadn't had Thanksgiving with their family in two years. Its hard when a holiday like that comes up and you have to act like its just a Thursday.

gaylasue

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2011, 09:56:45 am »
The majority of the countries that we have bases in do want us there.  That is free protection for them and a boost in their economy generated from the US tax payers' dollars.  Yes, it is very advantageous to have troops in key spots in the event it is necessary to take action.  Our ever-changing Star Wars technology may one day diminish the need for the vast majority of the troops oversees.  Just think how much our local law enforcement budgets would improve if we had our troops doing duties in the US like reinforcing the borders against terrorism or illegal immigration.
Have a wonderful day!

Abrupt

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 11:32:17 am »
I sometimes wish there was a way to present people with a "What If" scenario of the sort of "What if America was as evil as many people portray it".  Fortunately we don't play "total war"/"scorched earth", but oh if we did you would be surprised at the nations that suddenly couldn't shut up talking about all the 'good' we do.  I suppose that i similar to how the big easy going guy is treated compared to the big short tempered guy.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

pirewolf

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2011, 07:33:02 am »
It actually would cut back on the amount of extra work the police do, so I dont think that would raise their budget. Right now with all the people overseas, most people dont know, but a majoraty of the people watch military base gates are police officers trained to follow the same proceeders. There has to be military personnel scheduled, but if you ever drive onbase you will see the regular police. Only till the people in Afghan get home. That is were our bases need military police. Dont get me wrong, cause the cops without clearance still cant go on base but they are extra hands too watch the gate. They have to have a certain amount of people at any open gate.

gemini0314

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 07:39:26 pm »
I'll believe it when I see it because they are always saying that. I know people still over there and Afghanistan is getting worse so even if they do come home its not over :/

pirewolf

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 07:20:06 am »
That is true too. My husband almost got run over and blown up while he was there. It's not always what you think it will be before someone you know goes over, and their is only so much they can tell you about it anyways.

yosav

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 07:22:22 am »
bring them home today, why are they wasting there time there

Graeth

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 09:47:44 pm »
bring them home today, why are they wasting there time there


Politics.
Same reason why everything is wrong in the world today.
Politics. Does that make me an anarchist? I don't think so. Mankind needs governing. It is inherently self serving as denoted by who is in power now.
I just think our government has become too obsessed with re-election rather doing its job and it needs an overhaul.

PMZ908

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 06:57:40 am »
The news announced our troops will be leaving Iraq by the end of this year.  I say it is about time they were brought home. 
yeah sure they are.....then why is my brother and two of my friends being sent to iraq at the end of december?

falcon9

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Re: Troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year.
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 05:26:28 pm »
The news announced our troops will be leaving Iraq by the end of this year.  I say it is about time they were brought home. 


yeah sure they are.....then why is my brother and two of my friends being sent to iraq at the end of december?


Personnel rotations are often employed while keeping area-deployed force levels about the same.  This is also called "repositioning" by military command authorities.  Regardless, nearly all military personnel are due to rotate out of Iraq by the end of 2011 in accordance with a 2008 agreement.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

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