Religion vs. Jesus

[mh874892]

This pretty much says it all. Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=share

[Falconer02]

I agree with the top commenter-

"Self- contradicting "poem" by a wanna-be looking Drake. Jesus and religion are one in the same. This guy believes Jesus is like Gandhi or Martin Luther King preaching morals first above all else to the world so we can all live in peace, which to some extent is true. There is only one difference: Jesus CLAIMS to be the Son of God. You can't take Jesus as some advocator of morals when the man CLAIMS to be divine. Inherently Jesus's belief system of worshiping God over all else is a religion."

[mh874892]

Jesus and religion are one in the same.

I disagree. In my opinion, religion is simply doing the things church (or some other worshiping location depending on your specific beliefs) or preacher (or someone in the same power) says you should do. It is like going through the motions of your beliefs without actually knowing what you are saying you believe in. It's hard to argue without assuming a belief in Jesus, which I know is not the case with you Falconer from other debates. I really meant this to be a debate from a Christian standpoint and should have been more clear. Nonetheless, I don't understand your last statement:

Inherently Jesus's belief system of worshiping God over all else is a religion."

[Falconer02]

I really meant this to be a debate from a Christian standpoint and should have been more clear.

Ah! Understood.

Nonetheless, I don't understand your last statement:
Quote
Inherently Jesus's belief system of worshiping God over all else is a religion."

Well keep in mind I did not write those words, but to make it more clear- religion is basically just a belief in a god with a bunch of rituals/rules attached to that belief that people follow (usually set by the deity/ies), and this poet says he loves his god. Since the texts say JC taught people set rules, the video is obviously a scrambled message since the title could easily be rewritten as "Why I hate what god said, but love god".

Nevertheless this guy does highlight some good points, but he's sitting in the wrong seat to be saying these things. I just think it's odd because the basis makes absolutely no sense- he's preaching about a religion while bashing it at the same time (2:20 drives the point home) and also mixing up terminology left and right (3:08 for instance).

All in all, it's just a scrambled message shot with some nice video cameras and ambient music to make it seem like it's clear (like a slick advertisement...). Anyone saying it's perfectly clear and that they 100% agree with this nice fellow is just priding themselves on an emotional high and has failed to actually listen to it. I'll end with another commenter-

"Wait, so basically you're into the church and the bible and Jesus, and consider the concept of sin to exist. Dude, that's religion. That's religious stuff. All of that. You can try to dress it up as Jesus talking to you specifically, but that doesn't mean you get to change the definition of a word."

[mh874892]

Okay I get what you're saying now. Maybe you have to have Christian beliefs to understand because it is really hard to explain, but I'll try. I agree with the videos concept that you can believe in Jesus without following all of the "religious rules" that the church have in place. I think that is what he is trying to say. I feel that the church and people in power put on a show and care more about how the world perceives them rather than actually acting on their supposed beliefs.

 

he's preaching about a religion while bashing it at the same time (2:20 drives the point home)

To me, going throw the motions of a "set religion" is not the same as a personal relationship with Christ. (I know that's probably not a valid argument with you since you don't believe so we will have to agree to disagree on that part). But still, that is how I see religion and belief as Jesus as different.

"Wait, so basically you're into the church and the bible and Jesus, and consider the concept of sin to exist. Dude, that's religion. That's religious stuff. All of that. You can try to dress it up as Jesus talking to you specifically, but that doesn't mean you get to change the definition of a word."

I see it that he is more arguing the connotation of "religion", rather than the actual definition.

mixing up terminology left and right (3:08 for instance).

Are you talking about "clans"? If so, yes I agree, that is a very poor word choice.

[Falconer02]

Okay I get what you're saying now. Maybe you have to have Christian beliefs to understand because it is really hard to explain,

I did in the past though just for reference.

I agree with the videos concept that you can believe in Jesus without following all of the "religious rules" that the church have in place.  I think that is what he is trying to say.

Granted churches tend to pick-and-choose what rules they follow, Jesus did create many of those rules. That's why this guy's poem is a mixed message which is disguising the christian advertisement. If one chooses to follow Christ's ways, that person following the rules is following a religion by definition. As another commenter put it-
"I HATE soda, but I LOVE pepsi!"
"Isn't pepsi a soda?"
"No, man! It's the true unique drink! It's so much better than those other poser-sodas!"

I feel that the church and people in power put on a show and care more about how the world perceives them rather than actually acting on their supposed beliefs.

I will venture to say most Christians do this (especially the ones in politics) and it is a major reason freethinkers and other smaller belief systems around the world get really annoyed and aggrevated by Christianity.

I will say that it is just a poem, and maybe I'm reading init too thuroughly. However I find it amusing that there's an advertisement for a movie about exorcisms before the main video! lol

[kenny3991]

Agree

[ladavia89]

You can believe that Jesus is the son of God without actually conforming to organized religion. Just look at how all the sects of Christianity are so different. Amish, Catholics, and Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians. Members of some cults are Christians. They practice in some completely different ways but they share the belief in Jesus. In some ways organized religion has been manipulated to benefit whoever is in charge of a specific group.

[mh874892]

You can believe that Jesus is the son of God without actually conforming to organized religion. Just look at how all the sects of Christianity are so different. Amish, Catholics, and Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians. Members of some cults are Christians. They practice in some completely different ways but they share the belief in Jesus. In some ways organized religion has been manipulated to benefit whoever is in charge of a specific group.

Very well said! You put into words what I was having trouble explaining.