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Falconer02

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 10:29:55 am »
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When you tell someone I'm praying for you, or We'll pray for you, do you really do it?

I say my prayers when I lay down and try my absolute best to pray for other people that I know are struggling, I do it on the day that I hear of their issue, maybe the next 2-3 days but after that I just move on then I'll be thinking a few days later like crud, wonder how they're doing and feel bad for not continuing to pray.

So let's be honest about praying, shall we? If you truly wish and care for the person/people to overcome whatever struggle they're in, you will help them directly. Prayer is not a form of helping someone since it's on par with saying "I will cross my fingers for you." If you can't show the results of your efforts, you didn't do anything to help these people. I forget who said this quote-

"A thousand men can pray for a problem to be solved, but it only takes one to stand up, get to work, and solve it."

Effort > No Effort

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Totally believe in prayers. God may not always seem to give what everyone wants but he has his reasons.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 10:34:34 am by Falconer02 »

SherylsShado

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 10:33:40 am »
As for your statement that Satan can't touch what belongs to god, this is obviously untrue based on your beliefs, because you claim people belong to god, but also blame the devil of messing with said people anytime something goes wrong.   ???

I would agree that there are Christians that blame the devil for messing with people everytime something goes wrong.  There are some Christians that like to blame satan for everything that they can't get right themselves in their life. Those don't realize they are their own worst enemy, not satan.   There are also some Christians that give satan "an invitation" into their lives many times whether they are aware of it or not...so that could be why the devil gets blamed for messing with said people.  In the Bible,  God gave satan permission to "test" Job and satan did his best, but satan didn't beat Job.  One could say that satan couldn't "touch" Job even though he tried..
I can't speak for all Christians, I can only speak for this one.  I don't believe in giving satan any credit for anything in my life.  He has no invitation in my life.  He can test all he wants, he should know by now that he "can't touch THIS".  ;)

SherylsShado

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2012, 10:39:31 am »
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When you tell someone I'm praying for you, or We'll pray for you, do you really do it?

I say my prayers when I lay down and try my absolute best to pray for other people that I know are struggling, I do it on the day that I hear of their issue, maybe the next 2-3 days but after that I just move on then I'll be thinking a few days later like crud, wonder how they're doing and feel bad for not continuing to pray.

So let's be honest about praying, shall we? If you truly wish and care for the person/people to overcome whatever struggle they're in, you will help them directly. Prayer is not a form of helping someone since it's on par with saying "I will cross my fingers for you." If you can't show the results of your efforts, you didn't do anything to help these people. I forget who said this quote-

"A thousand men can pray for a problem to be solved, but it only takes one to stand up, get to work, and solve it."

Effort > No Effort
After those efforts and struggles have failed, then what?  Call it a day?
Prayer for others is taking what is out of our hands and placing it into God's hands.
"A thousand men can try to solve a problem, but it only takes a one Christian to pray and one God to solve it".
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 10:43:14 am by SherylsShado »

plennis

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2012, 10:45:38 am »
Believe...........don't believe it is up to you.  But it is funny when the chips are really down, how many "non-believers" turn to God and prayer.  When I tell someone I will pray for them I do  right then and then again at other times when I think about it.  I don't think prayers have to be at a set time or set place.......anytime, anywhere is ok.  That's my 2 cents for the day.
 

Falconer02

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2012, 11:03:40 am »
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After those efforts and struggles have failed, then what?  Call it a day?

Another anonymous quote that's a bit more famous-
"*bleep* happens!"

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Prayer for others is taking what is out of our hands and placing it into God's hands.

This is the same logic that christian zealots tend to use in hospitals- if an injured person might not make it, it's in god's hands. If the person lives, it's a miracle of god! If the person dies,
it was all in god's plan. The christians do nothing but 'spritually cross their fingers'. Meanwhile the doctor is working his *bleep* off to save the person knowing that the person would have been dead no matter what if it wasn't for the education and technology he knows how to apply. If christians believe god "has a plan", then praying is pointless since one is pretty much asking him to change his plan with a telepathic plea that will swing something in their favor.

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A thousand men can try to solve a problem, but it only takes a few Christians to pray and one God to solve it".

I cannot think of one time in recorded history where this actually applied and worked.

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Believe...........don't believe it is up to you.  But it is funny when the chips are really down, how many "non-believers" turn to God and prayer.

Lemme rephrase here-- You can truly tell a coward from a nonbeliever when the chips are down. To quote the late Carl Sagan's wife-
"When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me—it still sometimes happens—and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions."

SherylsShado

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 12:41:00 pm »
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Another anonymous quote that's a bit more famous-
"*bleep* happens!"
 
Some "call it a day" and some pray.   :angel11:
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This is the same logic that christian zealots tend to use in hospitals- if an injured person might not make it, it's in god's hands. If the person lives, it's a miracle of god! If the person dies,
it was all in god's plan. The christians do nothing but 'spritually cross their fingers'. Meanwhile the doctor is working his *bleep* off to save the person knowing that the person would have been dead no matter what if it wasn't for the education and technology he knows how to apply. If christians believe god "has a plan", then praying is pointless since one is pretty much asking him to change his plan with a telepathic plea that will swing something in their favor.
My logic doesn't swing in favor of the christian zealots but rather is more in line with the logic of the Christian doctors'.
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I cannot think of one time in recorded history where this actually applied and worked.

Your Daily Quotation from FC's daily paid e-mail:
"We don't see things as they are. We see them as we are."
-- Anais Nin
*** No doctor required, finding a cure for spiritual blindness is as easy as finding God.
Quote
"Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions."
This man and many more others face their death with unflagging courage, blind to what eternity holds for them.  They may think they never sought refuge in "illusions", but if they surely never sought refuge in God then what they settled for actually was an "illusion".  It's the "illusion" that satan sells people that makes them feel content on the path they're walking through life without God.  The "illusion" that one can live their life and do as they please because "there is no God" and surely no hell.  There's an end coming to that "illusion", it's probably going to leave many feeling "scammed".  Nothing good ever comes from believing a master of deception. 

Falconer02

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 01:23:24 pm »
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Some "call it a day" and some pray.

Fair enough I suppose. If taking a break or praying to give the individual more willpower gives one strength to continue, both can be seen as helpful. Only to the individuals own willpower though- not to the actual struggle they're working on.

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My logic doesn't swing in favor of the christian zealots but rather is more in line with the logic of the Christian doctors'.

Faith healers? Because doctors are doctors regardless of belief-- they know much more than the religious person about how human anatomy works, and therefore must be grounded in reality to move forward with the process of actually helping the injured person. Praying won't heal a person of physical ailments-- believing in such things is frighteningly dangerous as they are the works of cons who promote witchcraft. Though if you meant differently, it's just another fallacious tactic used by religious zealots- put god ontop of every topic showing the reality of the issue (similar to the whole "So evolution has been proven? If that's so, my god did it!" fallacy).

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No doctor required, finding a cure for spiritual blindness is as easy as finding God.

Such claims are rather contradictory to themselves. If freethinkers or believers of other religions are blind of something, you would need to provide proof of your 'spiritual realms' existence. If you cannot, then you are blind to the millions of other imaginary realms believed by others that lie in the same imaginary dimension as your own. Freethinkers see no importance in these realms due to lack of proof, they being able to be traced back to earlier primitive beliefs which no one believes in anymore, or the defined individuals of these realms that parallel current societies traits.

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This man and many more others face their death with unflagging courage, blind to what eternity holds for them.  They may think they never sought refuge in "illusions", but if they surely never sought refuge in God then what they settled for actually was an "illusion".  It's the "illusion" that satan sells people that makes them feel content on the path they're walking through life without God.  The "illusion" that one can live their life and do as they please because "there is no God" and surely no hell.  There's an end coming to that "illusion", it's probably going to leave many feeling "scammed".  Nothing good ever comes from believing a master of deception.  

So anyone who does not believe the way you do is being fooled by something you can prove exists, right? If you cannot, you have fallen into the same trap because you're being tricked by Loki.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 01:31:12 pm by Falconer02 »

noirlupe

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 01:24:54 pm »
Yes,  I have a list because I get so many people asking me for prayer and I dedicate a time for prayer for them.  The bed time prayer is for my family and talking with God.

falcon9

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2012, 03:20:08 pm »
As for the above quote "This occurs often enough to warrant a counter-response like, "may you be mentioned in dispatches to satan"--- Why waste time "dispatching" to second best?  Satan can't touch what belongs to God.



It's meant to be a joke, as non-Christians are often accused of being in cahoots with the devil.



Yes, that was one aspect of the sardonic response; the other aspect being the juxtapositioning of "dispatches" to "prayers" as being equally ineffective.


As for your statement that Satan can't touch what belongs to god, this is obviously untrue based on your beliefs, because you claim people belong to god, but also blame the devil of messing with said people anytime something goes wrong.   ???



It is also said that "the devil is in the details", (an observation oft-misunderstood by religious zealots who tend to avoid any detailed discussion of their belief claims for fear of the "devil").
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2012, 03:34:17 pm »
They may think they never sought refuge in "illusions", but if they surely never sought refuge in God then what they settled for actually was an "illusion".  It's the "illusion" that satan sells people that makes them feel content on the path they're walking through life without God. 



An even more insidious illusion lies within the self-delusions of blind faith, (especially in some vaguely indeterminate "god").  Throughout history, such self-righteous delusions have been more detrimental than any illusions of false comfort which is imagined to be obtained.


The "illusion" that one can live their life and do as they please because "there is no God" and surely no hell.  There's an end coming to that "illusion", it's probably going to leave many feeling "scammed".  Nothing good ever comes from believing a master of deception. 


Conversely, (and much more revealing as to the nature of the religious illusions propagated by such unsubstantiated deceptions), the concept that someone else's religious delusions somehow apply to others that don't share them displays an enormous degree of hubris.  The irony that such religious beliefs are 'deceptive scams', (due to the lack of any substantive basis whatsoever), somehow escapes 'believers'.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

SherylsShado

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 07:15:55 am »
Falconer02: 
If you're more comfortable being at the "end of the ropes" and calling it quits because "all human resources" have failed, then that's your option.  When that happens to me, I CAN'T call it quits because I know my God is ALWAYS there for me.  That's my option.  I can respect you enough to let you live with your choices.  I would hope for the same from you.

I'm not sure why you always jump right to "faith healers" when the topic of medicine comes up.  There ARE doctors that attend medical school that are Christians (along with most every other profession!). They combine what they've learned about medicine along with prayer.  They more than likely are at work in EVERY hospital.  They don't do the "faith healing", they aren't called for that.  Their calling is to work in the hospital as a doctor.

Re: "spiritual blindness".  If' it's a term that you find upsetting, I really apologize.  I used it because I can get up in the morning, listen to the news and see how world events LINE UP with what is in my Bible.  I don't have to make excuses or live in denial because there is something going on or some new finding that proves my God does not exist and is not who He says He is.  To me, that is seeing life wholly.  If you can say the same and be honest about it...well, I'm sorry but I don't see how you can.  I've been on the path that you currently are on and I know how that feels and what it takes to "not believe in God".  It's not a good path no matter how good a person is at living in denial.

I know my God exists, I have no doubts.  I'm not the kind of person that goes around trying to convert everyone I meet and I regret that.   I have had more than one aquaintance or friend die young and unexpectedly.   Their deaths angered me because I never took a moment to tell them what I knew about God and how they needed Him., now it's forever too late for them.  They probably would have rejected what I told them anyway but that wasn't my call to make.  Our paths crossed and I never told them what I knew and now it's too late for them.  Facloner02, our paths have "crossed", I have told you what I know.  It's not yet too late for you.  In my honest opinion, even though you've said you've tried church before...I think you should pray directly to God.  I think you should tell Him what's been going on with you and what you would like Him to do to reach you so that you have no questions left about whether or not He exists.  Why?  Because time is ticking and eventually it runs out for everyone.     

queenofnines

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2012, 08:27:19 am »
Facloner02, our paths have "crossed", I have told you what I know.  It's not yet too late for you.  In my honest opinion, even though you've said you've tried church before...I think you should pray directly to God.

Yeah, Falc, it's never too late to enslave your mind and life to a delusion!  Just look at Kirk Cameron and Lee Strobel!!!  They used to be "atheists", but now they have the privilege of riding first class on the Fantasy Train!!

In all seriousness, I find it highly condescending for someone to say "it's not too late for you".  It's not too late to burn forever at the hands of your 'loving' god?  Oh boy!

And no offense Sheryl, but the vast majority of agnostics/atheists have done more than "try church".  Including Falc, and myself.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

Cuppycake

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2012, 08:46:42 am »
As for the above quote "This occurs often enough to warrant a counter-response like, "may you be mentioned in dispatches to satan"--- Why waste time "dispatching" to second best?  Satan can't touch what belongs to God.

It's meant to be a joke, as non-Christians are often accused of being in cahoots with the devil.

As for your statement that Satan can't touch what belongs to god, this is obviously untrue based on your beliefs, because you claim people belong to god, but also blame the devil of messing with said people anytime something goes wrong.   ???
They are gullible and are beyond hope. I pity them.

falcon9

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2012, 01:26:12 pm »
I used it (Re: "spiritual blindness") because I can get up in the morning, listen to the news and see how world events LINE UP with what is in my Bible.  I don't have to make excuses or live in denial because there is something going on or some new finding that proves my God does not exist and is not who He says He is.  To me, that is seeing life wholly. 



Nearly any of the "world events" which have transpired since the 'bible' was cobbled together can be misconstrued as generally lining up with it, (not specifically, mind you but, in such a vague way as to falsely attribute such things to 'bibical prophesy').  Making such vague and generalized attributions constitutes making excuses and living in denial that the actual basis is 'blind faith' rather than knowledge.


If you can say the same and be honest about it...well, I'm sorry but I don't see how you can. I know how that feels and what it takes to "not believe in God".  It's not a good path no matter how good a person is at living in denial.


In youu own words, ("I don't _see_ how you can"), a certain degree of blindness, and therefore denial, is directly implicated. 


I know my God exists, I have no doubts.  



Having blind faith is not equivalent to knowing.  It's 'blind' because it not only lacks evidence but, seems to require a lack of evidence.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

SherylsShado

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Re: Lets Be Honest About Praying
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2012, 04:39:58 pm »
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And no offense Sheryl, but the vast majority of agnostics/atheists have done more than "try church".  Including Falc, and myself.

QON, what I meant to say was instead of "trying church", was actually "try God".  Not all churches teach what they should, not every church path "leads to Heaven" and not every church member is going to find themselves in Heaven at the end of their life's journey.

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In all seriousness, I find it highly condescending for someone to say "it's not too late for you". 
I honestly didn't intend for the comment to be "condescending".  I intended for the words to say exactly what they say.  As long as someone is still breathing and is still in control of their thoughts then God will hear their prayers.  Once that ends... so does any chance of getting things right with God.  

I'm wondering, QON, would it have made you happier if I had pretended to not be a Christian in the FC forums and never had said anything about God to you?  Do you value the friends that let you go on your merry way in life when you may be making a very big mistake and they know it, but they say nothing to you?  I try to look out for people, try to keep them from making mistakes when I can. There isn't anyone that I would want to see miss Heaven, but it's each person's choice.  Noone is going to get to blame "the devil" because the devil can only tempt and test...he can't MAKE anyone do anything.  How one decides to spend eternity is every person's choice.   I don't "pity" atheists, I might not totally understand them but I don't "pity" them.  I would think that I should be able to "communicate" with you & Falconer02 without you guys thinking I'm being "condescending" or full of "pity" toward you...after all, it's been 2 years!!  You guys should know me better than that by now!! ;)

   


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