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Topic: Dumbing-down or wising-up?  (Read 3790 times)

falcon9

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Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« on: May 02, 2012, 11:04:25 am »
Every once in a while, (okay, a lot more often than that), the opportunity to re-examine these questions tend to present themselves to me in a variety of situations; is it actually detrimental to "dumb it down" for others or, wouldn't that be condescending and ultimately not beneficial for everyone?   Does "talking over someone's head" inherently 'insult' them or, motivate them to figure out what in the blue blazes they're going on about?

Since it isn't my intention to unintentionally 'sway' opinions regarding these questions, I'll answer them from my perspective after anyone who wishes to responds with theirs.

As to the 'locked thread' which sparked this new one, (placed in d+d for a few different reasons); I accept the apology of the OP who 'paged' me and I want to both thank her for inspiring this thread while offering my apology for any unintended emotional duress caused by my posts.

For all of my apparent "fans", 'anti-fans', 'secret admirers', (ya'll outed yourselfs and we're on to you now *chuckle*), 'anti-groupies', honored opponents and newly-minted FC friends and acquaintances; I did read every one of your comments just as the thread was locked.  Thank you, guys, (and gals inclusively).  The perspectives offered by each of you had me pondering however, I'm not sure answering them all in a separate thread wouldn't constitute 'reopening' a thread which Kohler locked.  

   So, in a rare moment of potential indiscretion, (at least a few will probably grin at that), this thread was begun to discuss & debate the question(s) of 'dumbing-down or wising up'.  Like the forum "sign" says about d+d; "enter at your risk", (to which I'll add, don't worry - my bite is much worse than barking in a forum).


*crickets chirping*
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 12:08:04 pm by falcon9 »
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             


Falconer02

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 11:59:23 am »
I think the answer is far too broad and only applies to each individual member of the forum. You will have a handful of people that are actually willing to learn given evidences, you have the people that are not willing to learn and just speak their mind regardless of evidences (an overabundance of these in religious topics), and then you have the idiots who can't spell, toss ad homs left and right, and/or 'crap all over the chessboard' constantly.

If someone's going to complain about "all them smart words" an arguer tosses around, I don't see why they just can't quote the words and ask "what do you mean by this"? If they get offended by someone 'talking over their head', they're probably better off not getting involved. Unfortunately this mature concept is rarely practiced.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 12:10:59 pm by Falconer02 »

duroz

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 12:08:11 pm »
Just wanted to say that I'm REALLY glad you started this......and now that I am out of steam from blabbing away in "The Locked Topic" (is that a new mystery novel??), I need 3 cups of Espresso to get revved up again. AND some other people's posts to respond to also.

Since it isn't my intention to unintentionally 'sway' opinions regarding these questions.....
Well of course it isn't, you big silly! If you sway other's opinions, who the heck will you have to debate? ;D

As to the 'locked thread'.......I accept the apology of the OP who 'paged' me.......while offering my apology for any unintended emotional duress caused by my posts.
VERRRY nice! Spoken like a gentleman!
Funny how (I think) we all tend to be the same in this area....."one side" makes an apology, which in turn makes the "other side" feel kind of bad too, and then of course....
we just GOTTA apologize too!
I'm aware I'm making an assumption on this that includes you, falcon9......but I bet it fits you too, you BIG MEANY!! (JK....as I'm sure you know)

For all of my apparent "fans", 'anti-fans', 'secret admirers', (ya'll outed yourselfs and we're on to you now *chuckle*), 'anti-groupies',.....
GEE! Can I PLEASE be ALL of those?? PLEASE,  PLEASE,  PLEASE?

So, in a rare moment of potential indiscretion....

;D   :thumbsup:   :o   Alrighty then....

.....(don't worry - my bite is much worse than barking in a forum)
Either way, you are getting no biscuits.  Bad dog.

*crickets STILL chirping*

*Just one QUICK off-topic question for you, falcon9: Any chuckles at the "Burning you at the stake" cartoons???

OK I PROMISE not to post ANY MORE stupid humor here from this point forward. (You KNOW how hard that's going to be for me......being the wise cracking "class clown" at heart that I am  (read SMART-A**/WISE-A**)
                    
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sigmapi1501

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 12:13:36 pm »
If you're gonna call someone a dummy, the least you can do is put it in words they understand.

falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 12:15:04 pm »
If you're gonna call someone a dummy, the least you can do is put it in words they understand.

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose, (depending upon what the purpose was)?
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

SherylsShado

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 12:21:33 pm »
Dumbing-down or wising-up?

My thought(s) would be "pot luck"...    

This is a forum.  No one in here is perfect.  No one in here knows EVERYTHING.  Every single person in this forum knows at least one thing that someone else does not, everyone "brings something different to the table".      

Everyone is free to contribute and share, and may discover new friendships but insults, criticisms, name-calling, "calling-outs", etc.  are probably going to result in "food-fights".



@duroz---your post above, nicely done! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 12:33:29 pm by SherylsShado »

falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 12:37:35 pm »
Just wanted to say that I'm REALLY glad you started this......and now that I am out of steam from blabbing away in "The Locked Topic" (is that a new mystery novel??), I need 3 cups of Espresso to get revved up again. AND some other people's posts to respond to also.

You might thank "cateyes" for starting this, although that did inspire me to start this thread topic.

Since it isn't my intention to unintentionally 'sway' opinions regarding these questions.....

Well of course it isn't, you big silly! If you sway other's opinions, who the heck will you have to debate? ;D

Interestingly, stated that sometimes engenders the opposite effect, (not that anyone is 'swayed' but, some often become even more determined not to be swayed ... that's probably just human nature, for some humans).


As to the 'locked thread'.......I accept the apology of the OP who 'paged' me.......while offering my apology for any unintended emotional duress caused by my posts.

VERRRY nice! Spoken like a gentleman!
Funny how (I think) we all tend to be the same in this area....."one side" makes an apology, which in turn makes the "other side" feel kind of bad too, and then of course....
we just GOTTA apologize too!
I'm aware I'm making an assumption on this that includes you, falcon9......but I bet it fits you too, you BIG MEANY!! (JK....as I'm sure you know)

In this particular instance, I didn't offer an apology because the OP did it first. As I said, I read this morning's comments to the locked thread referred to and considered my actual intentions, (rather any that may have been imputed to my posts there).  After a ponder, (roughly 3.33 nanoseconds  :P ), it was concluded that some people may be constitutionally-unsuited to the logic of debate and are likely to be unaware of what doctor's, (for instance), are taught about being "emotionally-detached" lest it influence what they are trying to accomplish.  The same concept applies generally to debate, (and other situations), in that debate is essentially the exchange of opposing viewpoints done in either a logical, illogical, (emotional), or mixture of both manner.  Since it isn't possible to know in advance which of these a proponent of an opposing viewpoint may be coming from, (sans prior experience with a particular opponent), one usually ends up finding out after the raft is down-river and in the rapids.

For all of my apparent "fans", 'anti-fans', 'secret admirers', (ya'll outed yourselfs and we're on to you now *chuckle*), 'anti-groupies',.....

GEE! Can I PLEASE be ALL of those?? PLEASE,  PLEASE,  PLEASE?

Wouldn't 'fan' and 'anti-fan' be mutually contradictive if you chose both?

So, in a rare moment of potential indiscretion....


;D   :thumbsup:   :o   Alrighty then....

You're not tacitly implying that those aren't so rare or momentary, are you?  *chuckle*

Either way, you are getting no biscuits.  Bad dog.

*crickets STILL chirping*

No more crickets since at least four others have chimed-in on this thread. Actually, that was added because no replies were expected until later in the day/evening.  Apparently, I was in error about that. <-- save that quote, you anti-fans!  :bootyshake:

*Just one QUICK off-topic question for you, falcon9: Any chuckles at the "Burning you at the stake" cartoons???

OK I PROMISE not to post ANY MORE stupid humor here from this point forward. (You KNOW how hard that's going to be for me......being the wise cracking "class clown" at heart that I am  (read SMART-A**/WISE-A**)

Not only did I see your cartoon attachments on you post, I laughed and shamelessly swiped 'em for my own personal gain, (well, maybe not gain but, to "annoy" other people elsewhere with).  If that's not cool, I'll consider trying to determine how to give them back.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 12:47:53 pm »
Dumbing-down or wising-up?

My thought(s) would be "pot luck"...

So, can that be inferred as similar to what "Falconer02" posted about this?  

This is a forum.  No one in here is perfect.  No one in here knows EVERYTHING.  Every single person in this forum knows at least one thing that someone else does not, everyone "brings something different to the table".

True however, those weren't the questions posed.  For instance, even the youngest child, usually lacking any formal education, can suddenly offer a very penetrating insight - that's not in question. *  

Everyone is free to contribute and share, and may discover new friendships but insults, criticisms, name-calling, "calling-outs", etc.  are probably going to result in "food-fights".

Let the food fly then, people are going to express their viewpoints in all manner of appropriate and inappropriate ways, (unless censored).  That aspect actually directly applies to the subject of this thread; can "dumbing-down" comments for another be considered as self-censoring and implicitly 'insulting' as subtlely encouraging another to "wise-up"?  Or not?

* - Hey, Sheryls; didn't you just tell me that these d+d's were not the light converation you were currently pursuing?  This isn't meant to disparage your posting to this thread, (I was happily surprised but it, however).
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 12:56:28 pm »
I think the answer is far too broad and only applies to each individual member of the forum. You will have a handful of people that are actually willing to learn given evidences, you have the people that are not willing to learn and just speak their mind regardless of evidences (an overabundance of these in religious topics), and then you have the idiots who can't spell, toss ad homs left and right, and/or 'crap all over the chessboard' constantly.

Your observation is essentially an accurate one, my friend.  Although I enjoyed your 'parody' post in that auspiciously-locked thread, I should mention that both you and the OP of that thread inspired me to start this topic.  Thanks.  Now, can it be deduced from your observations in this regard that some things ought to be "dumbed-down" for some individuals and not for others?  Further, is the subtle process of 'talking over some people's heads' too subtle an encouragement to "wise-up" some some but, not for others?

If someone's going to complain about "all them smart words" an arguer tosses around, I don't see why they just can't quote the words and ask "what do you mean by this"? If they get offended by someone 'talking over their head', they're probably better off not getting involved. Unfortunately this mature concept is rarely practiced.

I can speculate in regards to that phenomenon in that it's not uncommon.  That is, usually most people want to avoid 'appearing to be stupid', (whether to others or, as a self-admission).  Given that general predisposition of an 'ego defensive mechanism', it may be more difficult for someone wwho isn't entirely 'stupid' to admit than someone who is 'too stupid to even know that they're too stupid' for instance, (no reference to any particular individually is specifically implied by this remark).
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

duroz

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 01:08:59 pm »
This is a forum.  No one in here is perfect.  No one in here knows EVERYTHING.  Every single person in this forum knows at least one thing that someone else does not, everyone "brings something different to the table".    

You are exactly correct on this, SherylsShado, and even if the one thing someone knows is NOT a thing many/any others WANT to know/know about......that person STILL has that knowledge.

@duroz---your post above, nicely done! :thumbsup:

awww shucks.....thank you! :D
                    
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duroz

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 01:20:47 pm »
GEE! Can I PLEASE be ALL of those?? PLEASE,  PLEASE,  PLEASE?

Wouldn't 'fan' and 'anti-fan' be mutually contradictive if you chose both?

Well YEAH!! That way I could just be wishy-washy, not commit myself to feeling like one or the other.... ::) ;D

You're not tacitly implying that those aren't so rare or momentary, are you?  *chuckle*
Ummmmm......er...... :confused1: do I have to answer ALL the questions on the quiz today??

Not only did I see your cartoon attachments on you post, I laughed and shamelessly swiped 'em for my own personal gain, (well, maybe not gain but, to "annoy" other people elsewhere with).  If that's not cool, I'll consider trying to determine how to give them back. 
Well as long as you swiped them shamelessly! But DEFINITELY please DO use them to annoy others with. And you needn't CONSIDER trying to determine how to give them back.....(I notice that you only said you would CONSIDER it)
                    
How come it won't play?

Cuppycake

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 01:25:48 pm »
I have enjoyed all of the posts and have had a good laugh.  I knew coming back this afternoon would be a treat!

falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 01:29:04 pm »
GEE! Can I PLEASE be ALL of those?? PLEASE,  PLEASE,  PLEASE?

Wouldn't 'fan' and 'anti-fan' be mutually contradictive if you chose both?


Well YEAH!! That way I could just be wishy-washy, not commit myself to feeling like one or the other.... ::) ;D

Since I didn't want to assume that you are female before, are you inadvertantly confirming it now?  :P

You're not tacitly implying that those aren't so rare or momentary, are you?  *chuckle*

Ummmmm......er...... :confused1: do I have to answer ALL the questions on the quiz today??

Your choice, as always.

Not only did I see your cartoon attachments on you post, I laughed and shamelessly swiped 'em for my own personal gain, (well, maybe not gain but, to "annoy" other people elsewhere with).  If that's not cool, I'll consider trying to determine how to give them back.  

Well as long as you swiped them shamelessly! But DEFINITELY please DO use them to annoy others with. And you needn't CONSIDER trying to determine how to give them back.....(I notice that you only said you would CONSIDER it)

Thanks. :thumbsup: That word was used because the process of trying to give back something c&p'd online presented somewhat of a conceptual challenge in that I'm pretty sure it can't be done.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 01:46:07 pm by falcon9 »
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

duroz

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 01:30:24 pm »
....someone who is 'too stupid to even know that they're too stupid'

I MUST be borrowing this now.....I LOVE IT!!!!
(I think I've met a person or two who fits into this category :sad1:)
                    
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falcon9

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Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 01:30:35 pm »
I have enjoyed all of the posts and have had a good laugh.  I knew coming back this afternoon would be a treat!

Out of curiousity, were they any particular ones which tickled you?
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

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