This topic is locked, no replies allowed. Inaccurate or out-of-date info may be present.

  • Print

Topic: North Carolina... Why?  (Read 7807 times)

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 09:25:06 pm »
Judging from the usual misguided and uninformed, North Carolina is probably full of fundamentalists who are completely out of date with the world. This is pretty sad news, but I speculate it will eventually do nothing but damage the state's reputation through time.

Misguided and uninformed?  What is it they need to be informed about in order to be able to make their own decisions?  They voted on how they felt about it, and it is now Law.  Such is the way of Democracy, unless protected under the Republic.  In this case they decided to not bestow upon gay's additional privileges, but they haven't denied them of anything as they can still get married (they just cannot redefine what marriage means to include additional things).

YES MISGUIDED!!!  46% of the people who voted DID NOT know that it would ban civil unions.

While that could qualify as uninformed, it certainly doesn't fit the bill of misguided.  Additionally do you have any proof that these 46% would have cast their votes differently?
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 09:29:03 pm »
I find it so interesting that the fact that homosexuality exists is for some people "pushing" it on them. I would love an explanation of what exactly that means. How is homosexuality "pushed" on anyone. People living their lives as everyone had a right to do doesn't push anything on anyone. It would be far better if people were a little more honest and told the truth that the fact that homosexuals exist bothers them. Period. That seems to be the criteria for "pushing".

If you are referring to the post I made you really need to reread what I posted.  I believe people should generally be free to do what they wish, and am libertarian on many matters like that.  My post was particularly speaking of coining homosexuality as 'normal' and that isn't something I would ever agree with and I don't want such taught in schools or advertised in public as 'normal'.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 09:39:51 pm »
Quote
Homosexuality isn't natural at all.  I am aware of some studies claiming it to be normal behavior in the animal kingdom, but I consider these to be biased and unscientific studies that generally confuse what they are seeing (domination acts as homosexuality), and as a simple example most everyone is familiar with, male dogs humping each other is entirely domination behavior and not sexual.  I suppose you would consider incest natural too, since these same studies highlight the acts of incest within these animal communities such 'studies' were observed on, commenting on how the 'cute little ones' eagerly participated too.

I have heard this argument from fundamentalists throughout my entire life (especially with the dog and horse examples). In those cases, it can be a form of dominance (though one can also argue some sexual behavior does involve dominance no matter the genders). But you do not account for the other 1000+ studies involving things such as placing electrodes on the uterus's of two female monkeys and monitoring the contractions they give each other. They are obvious forms of pleasure that are documented. Birds can form homosexual bonds that are sometimes life-long. Overall heterosexual or homosexual behavior in all animals (us too) serves a huge variety of social and psychological aspects, and simply saying it's all about dominance is a bit ignorant of everything else. If it's seen and documented in nature numerous times, it's natural behavior.

Comparing it to incest is a strawman argument and I'm kind of surprised you wouldn't catch it in your example- incest can produce damaging problems genetically and therefore is undesirable in procreation. It can hurt the baby. Incest is mostly seen between an adult and a child, so again, it could be argued that an innocent is harmed (rape). Homosexuality is completely consensual and does not allow for procreation or forced relations, therefore cannot be directly compared to incest.

It isn't a strawman and it wasn't put up as a direct correlation to homosexuality.  It was put up as something that was described by the same 'experts' claiming homosexuality to be normal as also hinting at incest as just as normal.  I was challenging the science and bias of the 'experts' and using their own claims as evidence.  Incest would totally end any species that adopted it entirely and this cannot be ignored.  Its propagation proportionately leads to the death of a species.

Quote
Personally I find the entire matter rather disgusting and depraved, but if it is what you like then I suppose that is your business, just don't try to push it on me as if it is something natural or desirable

I hate to dive into personal aspects, but just between us dudes- if you ever masturbated to hot lesbians before, your argument is completely hypocritical.  ;)

Quote
How exactly, would allowing same sex marriage between two consenting adults be pushing it on you?

In the same sense that allowing blacks to vote would be pushing it on a white person.

Why is everyone misreading what I posted?  It is as if their is bias to make me appear to be biased or something and I don't understand.  Everyone wants to seem to play the victim and find the worst case scenario in another persons words and misrepresent it to appear that way.  I was speaking of claiming it to be 'normal'.  That is what I don't want pushed on me.  It is abnormal by about any standard one could imagine.

Also I have never 'masturbated to hot  lesbians'.  First off I don't know any hot lesbians, and secondly I have watched some videos of such and found it hilarious and I could not stop laughing.  There isn't anything particularly exciting about it to me and I would find more stimulation from watching naked women chopping down trees with axes and chain saws.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

sigmapi1501

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1191 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 45x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2012, 12:46:29 am »
If we are forced to bring incest into the discussion...

In North Carolina it IS legal to marry your 1st cousin.... Just not your GAY cousin

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 05:06:56 am »
If we are forced to bring incest into the discussion...

In North Carolina it IS legal to marry your 1st cousin.... Just not your GAY cousin

Actually it is legal there to marry your GAY cousin.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

walksalone11

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1512 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2012, 08:09:12 am »

While I have no particular opposition to allowing civil unions personally if a state wishes to, I am simply not an advocate of it......  
 just don't try to push it on me .....
[/quote]How exactly, would allowing same sex marriage between two consenting adults be pushing it on you?
[/quote]

I am not sure that it would, but I don't understand the relevance of your question to my post.  Are you asking me to develop an opinion about some question you have regarding the matter?  Please clarify as your question makes no sense in regards to the quoted post.
[/quote]




Your post demands that same sex marriage, which is the topic of this discussion/debate, not be pushed on you. It is a very simple question.....if same sex marriage is allowed, how in anyway, is that pushing the act on you? (watch him dodge the question again ;) )

I have a follow up question as well but don't want to confuse you again with too many words all at one time.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 08:12:17 am by walksalone11 »

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2012, 09:08:43 am »
It doesn't demand that at all.  I demand that people don't push on me the idea that homosexuality is 'normal' behavior.  Being that you are a man that seems to generally favor traditions I would think you would have some similar understanding the situation of traditional marriage for most people, but that is another matter.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

walksalone11

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1512 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 09:29:00 am »
It doesn't demand that at all.  I demand that people don't push on me the idea that homosexuality is 'normal' behavior.  Being that you are a man that seems to generally favor traditions I would think you would have some similar understanding the situation of traditional marriage for most people, but that is another matter.
No, actually most of "our" Nations have a very different traditional view on this subject as you "normal?" xtians, do.

So first you say don't force the idea that homosexuality is normal behavior, on you, then you say that you don't know that anyone is doing such, now you are "demand"ing that the idea isn't pushed on you again.

Based on your own posts, I think it would be safe to say that you don't really know what you think of the matter. I would venture to further suggest that in all probability, based on obvious history of Xtian behavior in these types of situations, that you simply heard/saw some Xtians bullying some gays in the name of christianity, and thought that was a pretty shiny bandwagon and decided to jump aboard.

Abrupt

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1034 (since 2011)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2012, 10:06:39 am »
It doesn't demand that at all.  I demand that people don't push on me the idea that homosexuality is 'normal' behavior.  Being that you are a man that seems to generally favor traditions I would think you would have some similar understanding the situation of traditional marriage for most people, but that is another matter.
No, actually most of "our" Nations have a very different traditional view on this subject as you "normal?" xtians, do.

So first you say don't force the idea that homosexuality is normal behavior, on you, then you say that you don't know that anyone is doing such, now you are "demand"ing that the idea isn't pushed on you again.

Based on your own posts, I think it would be safe to say that you don't really know what you think of the matter. I would venture to further suggest that in all probability, based on obvious history of Xtian behavior in these types of situations, that you simply heard/saw some Xtians bullying some gays in the name of christianity, and thought that was a pretty shiny bandwagon and decided to jump aboard.

Please tell me how 'our' nations view tradition differently (and not simply your isolation on marriage since my distinction of traditions from traditional marriage was rather clear in showing that to some people there is a tradition of marriage and you have emphasized the value of traditions in other posts).

You have no idea of what you speak and you obviously have no idea of what I posted as your own post is evident with it showing contrasting opinions of the exact same post of mine.  Let me explain it to you since you have such difficulty in your reading comprehension.  I said don't force upon me the notion that homosexuality is natural and normal.  When you put forth a question that had nothing to do at all with what I posted.  You asked "How exactly, would allowing same sex marriage between two consenting adults be pushing it on you?" and I answered "I am not sure that it would, but I don't understand the relevance of your question to my post".  Considering I was speaking of trying to claim homosexuality as natural or normal it only logically follows that you were asking how allowing same sex marriage would be forcing the idea that homosexuality is natural or normal, and my answer would be that I am not sure that it would be forcing that definition of natural or normal on me.  The problem here is that you have failed to comprehend what I posted from the start and you have continued with your questions to me based on your biased and prejudicial judgements of what you wanted me to post (so that you could feel your bias and prejudice).  It is all here for everyone to see, and it is a simple thing to go back and reread it (but this time make sure you read what I posted and not what you wanted me to post).

Like so many others here, you entirely misjudge me and do so in an extremely prejudicial manner.  Would it interest you to know that my great grandmother was full blooded Cherokee?  Would it interest you to know that I attended native American schools as a child (question, would this be different from a tribal school as I was very young then and don't remember much)?  Would it interest you to know that I have had many friends who were gay and have stayed the nights over their houses and them at mine?  Would it interest you to know that I got into some trouble with one of my gay friends and we were arrested and the police were calling me all sorts of names and making all sorts of accusations against me because of my friend being gay?  I suppose these things are of no interest to you and you never considered them while you were too busy being a dukshanee.
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

walksalone11

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1512 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2012, 11:33:12 am »
It doesn't demand that at all.  I demand that people don't push on me the idea that homosexuality is 'normal' behavior.  Being that you are a man that seems to generally favor traditions I would think you would have some similar understanding the situation of traditional marriage for most people, but that is another matter.
No, actually most of "our" Nations have a very different traditional view on this subject as you "normal?" xtians, do.

So first you say don't force the idea that homosexuality is normal behavior, on you, then you say that you don't know that anyone is doing such, now you are "demand"ing that the idea isn't pushed on you again.

Based on your own posts, I think it would be safe to say that you don't really know what you think of the matter. I would venture to further suggest that in all probability, based on obvious history of Xtian behavior in these types of situations, that you simply heard/saw some Xtians bullying some gays in the name of christianity, and thought that was a pretty shiny bandwagon and decided to jump aboard.

Please tell me how 'our' nations view tradition differently (and not simply your isolation on marriage since my distinction of traditions from traditional marriage was rather clear in showing that to some people there is a tradition of marriage and you have emphasized the value of traditions in other posts).

You have no idea of what you speak and you obviously have no idea of what I posted as your own post is evident with it showing contrasting opinions of the exact same post of mine.  Let me explain it to you since you have such difficulty in your reading comprehension.  I said don't force upon me the notion that homosexuality is natural and normal.  When you put forth a question that had nothing to do at all with what I posted.  You asked "How exactly, would allowing same sex marriage between two consenting adults be pushing it on you?" and I answered "I am not sure that it would, but I don't understand the relevance of your question to my post".  Considering I was speaking of trying to claim homosexuality as natural or normal it only logically follows that you were asking how allowing same sex marriage would be forcing the idea that homosexuality is natural or normal, and my answer would be that I am not sure that it would be forcing that definition of natural or normal on me.  The problem here is that you have failed to comprehend what I posted from the start and you have continued with your questions to me based on your biased and prejudicial judgements of what you wanted me to post (so that you could feel your bias and prejudice).  It is all here for everyone to see, and it is a simple thing to go back and reread it (but this time make sure you read what I posted and not what you wanted me to post).

Like so many others here, you entirely misjudge me and do so in an extremely prejudicial manner.  Would it interest you to know that my great grandmother was full blooded Cherokee?  Would it interest you to know that I attended native American schools as a child (question, would this be different from a tribal school as I was very young then and don't remember much)?  Would it interest you to know that I have had many friends who were gay and have stayed the nights over their houses and them at mine?  Would it interest you to know that I got into some trouble with one of my gay friends and we were arrested and the police were calling me all sorts of names and making all sorts of accusations against me because of my friend being gay?  I suppose these things are of no interest to you and you never considered them while you were too busy being a dukshanee.
No, you mis-understand my question. Again, how would allowing same sex unions force upon you anyones idea that such is normal? You are free to have any ideas you wish, I just think it is being dis-honest of you to make the claim that if others are allowed to enter into union of any kind, much less a same sex union, that it would force upon you someone else's ideas.

Now, if they were to get on their soap box at each and every oppertunity, declaring that their chosen life style was the only normal and there for acceptable one, then perhaps, that would be an attempt at assimilating you into their lifestyle.

As for your stated claims in regards to your Grandmother? Why would that be of special interest to me? Doesn't everyone have a full blood Cherokee GrandMother?

"Our Nations" are the indigenous nations of this continent, "yours" is not.

Many of our Peoples believed that those whom you call gay had a special and much deeper connection to the spirit world, and were/are held in great esteem and admiration. I could continue with this line of conversation but will decline on the basis of the need to know is completely lacking in this instance.


« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 11:45:59 am by walksalone11 »

falcon9

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 9741 (since 2010)
  • Thanked: 2x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 11:39:15 am »
Doesn't everyone have a full blood Cherokee GrandMother?

No, no, no ... I was informed that 'everybody either has a full-blooded Cherokee princess grandmother or, is one themselves', (if they're a "twinkie").
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

walksalone11

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1512 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 11:40:46 am »
Doesn't everyone have a full blood Cherokee GrandMother?

No, no, no ... I was informed that 'everybody either has a full-blooded Cherokee princess grandmother or, is one themselves', (if they're a "twinkie").
oh gheez, the "princess" part is just a given, ennit?

falcon9

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 9741 (since 2010)
  • Thanked: 2x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 11:42:06 am »
Doesn't everyone have a full blood Cherokee GrandMother?

No, no, no ... I was informed that 'everybody either has a full-blooded Cherokee princess grandmother or, is one themselves', (if they're a "twinkie").

oh gheez, the "princess" part is just a given, ennit?

No more or less so than the "twinkie" part, I would guess.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

walksalone11

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Silver Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1512 (since 2009)
  • Thanked: 1x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2012, 11:48:11 am »
Doesn't everyone have a full blood Cherokee GrandMother?

No, no, no ... I was informed that 'everybody either has a full-blooded Cherokee princess grandmother or, is one themselves', (if they're a "twinkie").

oh gheez, the "princess" part is just a given, ennit?

No more or less so than the "twinkie" part, I would guess.
Yeah, but you, I and maybe 2 or 3 others here are the only one's who would/will get that. heh heh heh

I guess we don't even need to get into a discussion on the sad numbers of "Apples" running around, who are such as a direct result of the "forced assimilation/genocide" policies that have been in place for 520 years now.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 12:04:57 pm by walksalone11 »

falcon9

    US flag
    View Profile
  • Platinum Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 9741 (since 2010)
  • Thanked: 2x
Re: North Carolina... Why?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 12:12:17 pm »
Yeah, but you, I and maybe 2 or 3 others here are the only one's who would/will get that. heh heh heh

No doubt the day will arrive that someone will claim to be descended from the "Anasazi", (not just a Pueblo tribe). If so, I'll have questions. *chuckle*

I guess we don't even need to get into a discussion on the sad numbers of "Apples" running around, who are such as a direct result of the "forced assimilation/genocide" policies that have been in place for 520 years now.

Unless a family history is riddled with inbreedings, pretty much eberyone is genetically-'mixed' in some way.  Even different tribal ancestoral mixtures occurred to such an extent that I've wondered before how blood quantum requirements to be on the 'rolls' are determined.  Plus, if someone had viking/norse ancestors that arrived in North America 500 years before Columbus stumbled upon it, should they be entitled to federal aid as well?  What about those who Chinese ancestors were from "Fou-Sang" in the Pacific Northwest from the 5th century?

http://www.geographicus.com/blog/rare-and-antique-maps/fou-sang-or-fusang-a-5th-century-chinese-colony-in-western-america/
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

  • Print
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
19 Replies
3622 Views
Last post September 14, 2009, 06:11:05 pm
by inderfusioncash
0 Replies
416 Views
Last post December 04, 2011, 05:00:02 am
by gaylasue
7 Replies
859 Views
Last post October 20, 2012, 02:09:21 pm
by cathy37
12 Replies
1241 Views
Last post April 07, 2016, 09:46:49 am
by torch71
0 Replies
40 Views
Last post September 09, 2020, 02:52:05 pm
by Tresbn00