Abortion Ban

[Mizzkizz7]

I'm Pro-choice. You never know what women are going through..Abusive relationships, mental health issues, HEalth problems-High Blood Pressure etc. This decision is between that woman and GOD. Period. So the pro-life ppl can be pro-life but they are, and can't judge another person for deciding to terminate a pregnancy. I thank God my mom didn't terminate me but if she did I WOULD NOT KNOW! I would be with the LORD.
 

[linderlizzie]

I'm Pro-choice. You never know what women are going through..Abusive relationships, mental health issues, HEalth problems-High Blood Pressure etc. This decision is between that woman and GOD. Period. So the pro-life ppl can be pro-life but they are, and can't judge another person for deciding to terminate a pregnancy. I thank God my mom didn't terminate me but if she did I WOULD NOT KNOW! I would be with the LORD.
 

You're talking about high risk pregnancies and that does involve a critical decision making process. That mother does have to choose. And any decision made will involve God. If one really invoked God in the process, I firmly believe they would choose life since God is the creator of life.

I think we've been debating on this forum that elective abortion for convenience or for birth control is wrong in countless ways. The right to life exists for the mother AND her unborn baby.

I too am glad that your mother chose life for you. And my only consolation for babies being put to death in their mother's womb means that they will be in heaven.

[vp44]

I'm Pro-choice. You never know what women are going through..Abusive relationships, mental health issues, HEalth problems-High Blood Pressure etc. This decision is between that woman and GOD. Period. So the pro-life ppl can be pro-life but they are, and can't judge another person for deciding to terminate a pregnancy. I thank God my mom didn't terminate me but if she did I WOULD NOT KNOW! I would be with the LORD.
 

You're talking about high risk pregnancies and that does involve a critical decision making process. That mother does have to choose. And any decision made will involve God. If one really invoked God in the process, I firmly believe they would choose life since God is the creator of life.

I think we've been debating on this forum that elective abortion for convenience or for birth control is wrong in countless ways. The right to life exists for the mother AND her unborn baby.

I too am glad that your mother chose life for you. And my only consolation for babies being put to death in their mother's womb means that they will be in heaven.

How about debate it is none of your business what a woman does with her body.

[Legslangevan]

From KJV

Ecclesiastes 9:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

[UGetPaid]

How about debate it is none of your business what a woman does with her body.

And like was said before - if it was just her body in question - you might have a point here. But sadly it is not just her body.

[nickylanena]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

[JediJohnnie]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

Men are not the only ones making the laws.

Separation of church & state has nothing to do with this issue whatsoever. It's a human rights issue.

By your reasoning, there would still be slavery, since Jefferson's “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” would be violating 'separation of church & state.'

[linderlizzie]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

Investigate and find out what separation of church and state really means before you throw it into an argument. It's actually to keep the state (government) from forming a state religion and not at all about keeping religion, or God, out of governmental affairs. It's not in the Constitution per se. It was a paraphrase by Thomas Jefferson.

The following quote is from from Teachinghistory.org.:

"The United States Constitution does not state in so many words that there is a separation of church and state. The first part of the First Amendment to the Constitution states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Therefore, it is more accurate to say that the Constitution promotes freedom of religion and prohibits the federal government from inhibiting its citizens’ ability to worship as they wish."

BTW, men should definitely have a say on whether or not their babies are slaughtered before they're allowed to be born. It shouldn't only be the woman's prerogative. The daddies might actually want to be a daddies. Why doesn't anyone think about them?

And even if they are not the daddies, why should they necessarily be for murdering babies by anyone? Unborn babies are still human beings (albeit quite small and helpless) and deserve the right to live. And if men want to fight for the defenseless little babes, I say, "Go for it!"

[Legslangevan]

If anyone thinks i am going to back down from putting Gods word up....think again and show your true self.

Much discussion Re abortion and the sad thing about it NOT too many care about Gods view.To save band width the link is here to those that MIGHT care.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/abortion-in-the-bible/

[linderlizzie]

If anyone thinks i am going to back down from putting Gods word up....think again and show your true self.

Much discussion Re abortion and the sad thing about it NOT too many care about Gods view.To save band width the link is here to those that MIGHT care.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/abortion-in-the-bible/

Who in this forum challenged you about giving us God's point of view?  FC forum posters are the most tolerant people I've ever seen in a public forum. I rarely hear of anyone on here being radically opposed to someone else's point of view. And there are plenty of FCers that use God's viewpoint in their posts.

I cannot fathom your defensiveness. I think we all want to see what you have to say. And thank you for referencing a good site to visit on the topic being discussed.

[Legslangevan]

If anyone thinks i am going to back down from putting Gods word up....think again and show your true self.

Much discussion Re abortion and the sad thing about it NOT too many care about Gods view.To save band width the link is here to those that MIGHT care.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/abortion-in-the-bible/

Who in this forum challenged you about giving us God's point of view?  FC forum posters are the most tolerant people I've ever seen in a public forum. I rarely hear of anyone on here being radically opposed to someone else's point of view. And there are plenty of FCers that use God's viewpoint in their posts.

I cannot fathom your defensiveness. I think we all want to see what you have to say. And thank you for referencing a good site to visit on the topic being discussed.

Pretty obvious those that support abortion could care less what God thinks.And then you have some on the fence that could care what God thinks.Even many that are against it seem to wait till man corrects it.But then again thats why this world is the way it is RE the problems in it.

To those of us that think a loving Creator exists and with the world in a shambles,how can anyone in their right mind think God had anything to do with the way it is?But maybe HE had a good reason to let it continue for awhile to show the universe that man and the ungodly ruler NOW cant bring about the harmony that so many of us desire and want but most of us still wanna decide for ourselves whats good and bad.

[nickylanena]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

Men are not the only ones making the laws.

Separation of church & state has nothing to do with this issue whatsoever. It's a human rights issue.

By your reasoning, there would still be slavery, since Jefferson's “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” would be violating 'separation of church & state.'

No, men aren't the only ones making the laws but they are the ones (in the Senate) who are so adamant about pushing abortion bans.

Also, are you implying that just because saying "separation of church and state" that no one else would have found another way to end slavery?  Because that sounds rather absurd.

Also, it shouldn't take believing in a Creator to make someone realize that they and others have such rights.

[nickylanena]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

Investigate and find out what separation of church and state really means before you throw it into an argument. It's actually to keep the state (government) from forming a state religion and not at all about keeping religion, or God, out of governmental affairs. It's not in the Constitution per se. It was a paraphrase by Thomas Jefferson.

The following quote is from from Teachinghistory.org.:

"The United States Constitution does not state in so many words that there is a separation of church and state. The first part of the First Amendment to the Constitution states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Therefore, it is more accurate to say that the Constitution promotes freedom of religion and prohibits the federal government from inhibiting its citizens’ ability to worship as they wish."

BTW, men should definitely have a say on whether or not their babies are slaughtered before they're allowed to be born. It shouldn't only be the woman's prerogative. The daddies might actually want to be a daddies. Why doesn't anyone think about them?

And even if they are not the daddies, why should they necessarily be for murdering babies by anyone? Unborn babies are still human beings (albeit quite small and helpless) and deserve the right to live. And if men want to fight for the defenseless little babes, I say, "Go for it!"
[/quote]

I didn't feel the need to be technical about "separation of church and state" but it seems like you clearly understood that I was referring to "keeping religion, or God, out of governmental affairs."   

You understand that there is a difference between a fetus and a baby, right?

Also, I hope you don't truly think it is simply a matter of wanting or not wanting to be daddies/parents. And why would anyone think they have the right to make a decision that doesn't regard their own being in the first place? And the woman should be able to decide what happens to the "unborn babies" she (NOT the "daddies" or other men it may/may not concern) is carrying (in HER body, in case that isn't clear) especially if it endangers her "right to live."

Also, "slaughtered" made me giggle.

[Legslangevan]

If YOU are not the one that is pregnant, you should not have a say! I don't see how men are the ones making these laws.

Also, Separation of church and state!

Investigate and find out what separation of church and state really means before you throw it into an argument. It's actually to keep the state (government) from forming a state religion and not at all about keeping religion, or God, out of governmental affairs. It's not in the Constitution per se. It was a paraphrase by Thomas Jefferson.

The following quote is from from Teachinghistory.org.:

"The United States Constitution does not state in so many words that there is a separation of church and state. The first part of the First Amendment to the Constitution states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Therefore, it is more accurate to say that the Constitution promotes freedom of religion and prohibits the federal government from inhibiting its citizens’ ability to worship as they wish."

BTW, men should definitely have a say on whether or not their babies are slaughtered before they're allowed to be born. It shouldn't only be the woman's prerogative. The daddies might actually want to be a daddies. Why doesn't anyone think about them?

And even if they are not the daddies, why should they necessarily be for murdering babies by anyone? Unborn babies are still human beings (albeit quite small and helpless) and deserve the right to live. And if men want to fight for the defenseless little babes, I say, "Go for it!"

I didn't feel the need to be technical about "separation of church and state" but it seems like you clearly understood that I was referring to "keeping religion, or God, out of governmental affairs."   

You understand that there is a difference between a fetus and a baby, right?

Also, I hope you don't truly think it is simply a matter of wanting or not wanting to be daddies/parents. And why would anyone think they have the right to make a decision that doesn't regard their own being in the first place? And the woman should be able to decide what happens to the "unborn babies" she (NOT the "daddies" or other men it may/may not concern) is carrying (in HER body, in case that isn't clear) especially if it endangers her "right to live."

Also, "slaughtered" made me giggle.
[/quote]◄ Luke 1:41 ►
 SUM   PIC   XRF   DEV   STU
Verse  (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Do  u understand what that scripture means?Elizabeth was carrying John the Baptist and Mary was to be Jesus mom.It certainly looked like "Life"existed in Elizabeths womb.Ponder that!!

[paints]

95% is a made up statistic.  When you have to make up the numbers, you know it is a bogus argument.

I apologize for the wonky formatting. I was trying to make it more readable, and it messed up the columns and format a bit.


It looks like JediJohnnie's number is actually pretty close since the top six or seven reasons can all be boiled down to some sort of convenience excuse/argument. Is it exactly 95% - no, obviously not... But it is much closer to that (hovering around 90-95% depending on which you consider to be convenience arguments and since you cannot really classify the 4% other - can't rule it in, but also can't fully rule it out either) and far far far far away from being a "made up" statistic to support a bogus argument.


So before you decide to disregard someone's argument by accusing them of making up numbers, maybe do a little bit of research first. Dismissing an opposing viewpoint as bogus simply because it cites to a statistic is being just as shortsighted as what you are [wrongfully] accusing JediJohnnie of (i.e. making up numbers). That is the sort of tactic people who have no convincing counter argument usually resort to.


I pulled this list from this website under the heading The vast majority of abortions are elective. But if you look at their source (cited below) you can track it back to the original source - one that is widely cited elsewhere.




 

		Why Women Choose Abortion
Inadequate finances to raise a child	21%
Not ready for responsibility	21%
Woman's life would be changed too much	16%
Problems with relationship; unmarried	12%
Too young; not mature enough	11%
Children are grown; woman has all she wants	8%
Unborn child has possible health problems	3%
Woman has health problems	3%
Pregnancy caused by rape, incest	1%
Other	4%
			(Average number of reasons given:   3.7)
			Source: Torres and Forrest, as cited by Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health and the Alan Guttmacher Institute in An Overview of Abortion in the United States
	(October 2001)

None of the statistics equal "convenience."