FC Community
Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: marieelissa on September 07, 2010, 03:44:35 pm
-
GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) — A Christian minister vowed Tuesday to go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite warnings from the White House and the top U.S. general in Afghanistan that he would endanger American troops overseas.
Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center, which has about 50 members, said he understands the government's concerns but plans to go forward with the burning Saturday to mark the ninth anniversary of the attacks.
He left the door open to change his mind, saying he is still praying about his decision, which was condemned Tuesday by an interfaith coalition that met in Washington to respond to a spike in anti-Muslim bigotry.
Gen. David Petraeus warned in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence."
State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley echoed that, calling the plan to burn copies of the Quran "un-American" and saying it does not represent the views of most people in the U.S.
"While it may well be within someone's rights to take this action, we hope cooler heads will prevail," Crowley said.
Jones told the AP in a phone interview that he is also concerned but wonders how many times the U.S. can back down.
"We think it's time to turn the tables, and instead of possibly blaming us for what could happen, we put the blame where it belongs — on the people who would do it," he said. "And maybe instead of addressing us, we should address radical Islam and send a very clear warning that they are not to retaliate in any form."
Jones, who runs the small, evangelical Christian church with an anti-Islam philosophy, says he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.
The threats started not long after the 58-year-old minister proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn a Quran Day." Supporters have been mailing copies of the Islamic holy text to his Dove World Outreach Center to be incinerated in a bonfire that evening.
The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit for Saturday, but he says he is going ahead with his event. He said lawyers have told him his right to burn the Quran is protected by the First Amendment whether he's got permission from the city or not.
Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect, along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the Quran is deeply offensive.
The interfaith group of evangelical, Roman Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim leaders meeting in Washington condemned Jones' plan to burn the Quran as a violation of American values and the Bible. Among the participants was Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, retired Catholic archbishop of Washington, D.C.; Rabbi David Saperstein of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism; and top officials from the Islamic Society of North America, the group that organized the gathering.
"This is not the America that we all have grown to love and care about," said Rabbi Steve Gutow of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs. "We have to stand up for our Muslim brothers and sisters and say, "This is not OK.'"
In this progressive north Florida town of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache is mostly seen as a fringe character who doesn't deserve the attention he's getting.
Still, at least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in Gainesville have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services — to counter what Jones is doing. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church Saturday.
The Vatican newspaper on Tuesday published an article in which Catholic bishops, including Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha of Lahore, Pakistan, criticized Jones' plan.
"No one burns the Quran," read the headline in Tuesday's L'Osservatore Romano.
Jones gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his small church proclaiming "Islam is of the Devil." The church is independent of any denomination but follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.
Jones' Quran-burning scheme, after it caught fire on the Internet, brought rebukes from Muslim nations and an avalanche of media interview requests just as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the Ground Zero site in New York.
The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than the Christian biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.
"It's hard for people to believe, but we actually feel this is a message that we have been called to bring forth," he said last week. "And because of that, we do not feel like we can back down."
FBI agents have visited to talk about their concerns for Jones' safety, as multiple Facebook pages with thousands of members have popped up hailing him as either a hero or a dangerous pariah.
His plan has drawn formal condemnation from the world's pre-eminent Sunni Muslim institution of learning, Al-Azhar University in Egypt, whose Supreme Council accused the church of stirring up hate and discrimination and called on other American churches speak out against it. Last month, Indonesian Muslims demonstrated outside the U.S. embassy in Jakarta, threatening violence if Jones goes through with it.
———
Associated Press Writer Kimberly Dozier in Kabul, Afghanistan, and AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll in New York contributed to this report.
(This version corrects capitalization in cardinal's last name to McCarrick.)
-
he is an IDIOT
-
This is obviously an act of the christain church. it is definately wrong to disrespect an entire religion over the actions of a few people. I would expect this from street thugs, but these are the people that preach forgiveness.
-
I do not care what religion you identify with or how much you disagree with another one, none of them have the right to defile the holy books and writings of another. This is the type of act that will leave far more than a 'pile of ashes' to clean up. I suppose it will be justified by these 'good christians' (sic) as acting against an evil and false religion - because THEY say it is.
If anyone comes on here and actually defends this, you don't give a damn about this country or the people trying to keep it in one piece. :angry7:
-
it dose't matter what you say - CHRIST IS YOU ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. everyone else will go to hell and suffer for eternity. God will always forgive you - unless of course you don't accept CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!! Even the native americans went to hell, they never heard of christianity so they couldn't accept jesus christ. Too bad for not knowing.... ;)
-
Since I first heard about this, I was astonished that a church, a place that should be practicing love and forgiveness, would carry out such a hateful act. :angry7:
-
i was being sarcastic. once a christian man almost made sense of christianity to me. explaining the cross and when i asked "why do you pray in jesus' name even when you are praying for yourself?" he explained that jesus is like a secretary, and you must go through him to reach god. But to me, christianity cancels itself out. Hell is a big flaw for me, they preach to always forgive, but you will never be forgiven for not accepting christ. Also, it is said, jesus' cucifiction was planned before man was created (why would god create somethng he knew would fail?)
-
:cat: This is the type of "Christian" that ruins the testimony of true, genuine Christians who are trying to make a difference. This is NOT something that we stand for and definitely do not approve of. I, as a Christian, do NOT agree with what this idiotic man is doing. He's also putting our troops and citizens in danger of retaliation. That is not God's way, that sounds like he thinks he's God.
-
THIS IS STRAIGHT OUT WRONG AND UNDENIABLY DISTURBING
GOD HELP US!!!
-
I do not side with this at all, but I'm curious to hear all of your opinions on National Draw Muhammad Day.
But to me, christianity cancels itself out. Hell is a big flaw for me, they preach to always forgive, but you will never be forgiven for not accepting christ. Also, it is said, jesus' cucifiction was planned before man was created (why would god create somethng he knew would fail?)
g4u, d00d.
-
I think this proves that we haven't learned anything from 9/11. And, of course, the right-wing nutjobs are swarming to it like flies to *bleep*. We've gotten stupider as a people because of it. People don't understand that it happened because the radicals were attacking 'imperialist policies' in their eyes. This is literally real-life trolling! It does not serve any point but to tantilize the anger of many people. Immature hypocritical bigotry. And I'm not surprised in the least that this is happening at a southern church.
Edit: RON PAUL MAKES A GOOD AND QUICK POINT- http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100907007261/en
-
I saw an interview with this guy and I remember him saying "well think about it. Have you ever seen a happy Muslim?" Why yes sir, I have. Clearly you're not too happy yourself, since you feel the need to burn another religion's holy book. I'm pretty sure Jesus would not approve.
-
I think this guy's an idiot. True, legally he has the right to burn the Quran, just like protesters have the right to burn the flag, an Imam has the right to build a masque near Ground Zero, or artists have the right to put a crucifix in urine (although I've entertained the notion that these may lie outside the line of "freedom to the tip of my nose" argument, but I digress...). But with freedom comes responsibility; doing something so hurtful is not the morally correct thing to do. I have a tough time figuring out how this guy can call himself a Christian -- especially be a shepherd for his flock.
it dose't matter what you say - CHRIST IS YOU ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. everyone else will go to hell and suffer for eternity. God will always forgive you - unless of course you don't accept CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!! Even the native americans went to hell, they never heard of christianity so they couldn't accept jesus christ. Too bad for not knowing.... ;)
When the Bible says the only way to heaven is through Christ, it doesn't just mean giving lip-service to the fact that you accept Jesus as "Lord and Savior". Rather it means to live in a Christ-like manner. Thus a person that "loves thy neighbor", "turns the other cheek", provides help to the poor and disadvantaged, and basically lives by the teachings of Jesus has a faster ticket to heaven than someone that merely says they believe in Christ, even if the first person is a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or even atheist.For example, Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan; what made this story so provocative was that several "good Jews" would pass on by, but it was someone not of the faith (a Samaritan) that actually stopped to help. I'm sure if Jesus was around today, we'd be hearing the story of the Good Muslim.
To live the gospel is the most effective way; most effective in the beginning, in the middle and in the end. ...Not just preach but live the life according to the light.... If, therefore, you go on serving people and ask them also to serve, they would understand. But you quote instead John 3:16 and ask them to believe it and that has no appeal to me, and I am sure people will not understand it... the Gospel will be more powerful when practiced and preached.
This is a quote from a Hindu that greatly respected Christians and was inspired by the teachings of Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi. However, he was troubled by the number of so-called "Christians" that felt the need to push that one passage from John instead of truly understanding its meaning and living a life of love and charity in a Christ-like manner. He is also quoted as saying "There is only one God but many paths to him." One true spirit of living in love with your fellow man, with many ideas as to how to get there.
I'll leave with one last quote, a Biblical one this time: "Dear friends, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God." - 1 John 4:7. If this is true, than how can this preacher consider himself to be a child of God if he only lives with hate?
-
Yeah, I think this guy is completely insane. It's not an act of God to do what he's doing. If you don't agree with a religion just don't associate yourself with it and that's it. How would he feel if people who read the Koran burned the Holy Bible? I think he's just looking for someone to hurt him or much worst start World War 3. This guy needs to stop acting stupid. I really don't know what point he's trying to prove.
-
If you don't agree with a religion just don't associate yourself with it and that's it.
Not when it molds onto other things such as politics.
How would he feel if people who read the Koran burned the Holy Bible?
Don't they? Or is it just flags?
I think he's just looking for someone to hurt him or much worst start World War 3.
If it happens, that'll be many governments doing this. But as usual, religion will be a useful weapon for it.
This guy needs to stop acting stupid. I really don't know what point he's trying to prove.
"LOOK AT ME! I'M A CHILD WHO NEEDS ATTENTION! LAWL I BURN HOLY BOOKS LAWLAWLAWL"
-
This guy lives in my town I dnt care if he does it or not I think America is just scared to offend anyone which is crap other Countries offend all the time and we do nothing but a pastor from a lil college town in FL goes to burn some papers it's suddenly news? and for the ppl who say that God wouldn't like it Muslims dnt believe in God they believe in Allah or something weird like that so...... God doesn't care. We have a saying God doesn't believe in Muslims so therefore they dnt exist lol :) I might go watch him burn them. I dnt have a problem with Muslims but I think ppl tend to forget that Muslims were the cause of 911 nt all of them but their beliefs and radicals. I think this pastor is awesome and applaude him for what he is doin no matter what the consequences. Take it any way you want. I think if it were a Muslim person burning a bible no one would even care but since he is Christian everyone is making a big deal of it. Even Obama who I believe is muslim.
-
This guy lives in my town I dnt care if he does it or not I think America is just scared to offend anyone which is crap other Countries offend all the time and we do nothing but a pastor from a lil college town in FL goes to burn some papers it's suddenly news? and for the ppl who say that God wouldn't like it Muslims dnt believe in God they believe in Allah or something weird like that so...... God doesn't care. We have a saying God doesn't believe in Muslims so therefore they dnt exist lol :) I might go watch him burn them. I dnt have a problem with Muslims but I think ppl tend to forget that Muslims were the cause of 911 nt all of them but their beliefs and radicals. I think this pastor is awesome and applaude him for what he is doin no matter what the consequences. Take it any way you want. I think if it were a Muslim person burning a bible no one would even care but since he is Christian everyone is making a big deal of it. Even Obama who I believe is muslim.
Well, since you "think this pastor is awesome and applaude him for what he is doin no matter what the consequences.", I'll post part of what I said on page 1 of this thread again:
If anyone comes on here and actually defends this, you don't give a damn about this country or the people trying to keep it in one piece. :angry7:
Gee, I shur hope you doesn't have no peeple en yur famly fitin in the war cuz theys goin down furst.
-
Hahahah! He did say one interesting thing that I implore people to realize--
but a pastor from a lil college town in FL goes to burn some papers it's suddenly news?
This got popular because of the media. I could go outside and burn all sorts of holy books, but unless fox news is there listening to me, nobody is going to care much. They're blowing it out of proportion and I think to be humble and mature, people should not pay attention to this 'unchristian' *bleep*. The same could be said for the Westboro Baptist Church creeps. Just ignore it-- they're real-life flamebait and don't deserve any recognition. Let the morons flock together. We've got bigger things on our plate in this country.
-
I agree with much of what you just said, Falconer, BUT - (there's always one of those, eh? ;)) this is extremely bad timing if we are [supposedly] going to start pulling troops back. This could cause an escalation in fighting and necessitate just the opposite - calling up and sending more in. That is just one possible scenario I for one do NOT want to see happen as a result of this. :(
-
Yeah, I think this guy is completely insane. It's not an act of God to do what he's doing. If you don't agree with a religion just don't associate yourself with it and that's it. How would he feel if people who read the Koran burned the Holy Bible? I think he's just looking for someone to hurt him or much worst start World War 3. This guy needs to stop acting stupid. I really don't know what point he's trying to prove.
I wouldn't care too much if someone burned the Holy bible, I mean who cares, there is more where that came from!
Marie, I cannot believe you wrote that. :angry7: :angry7: :angry7: Does this mean that you side, after all, with this idiotic man, to burn their holy koran?
-
It's just gonna bring up a bunch of hatefull crap that neither country needs right now, and this guy is very selfish.
What does he think he will accomplish with this? Absolutely nothing at all, its all for his own pleasure! Stupid jerk!! :dontknow:
-
Yeah, I think this guy is completely insane. It's not an act of God to do what he's doing. If you don't agree with a religion just don't associate yourself with it and that's it. How would he feel if people who read the Koran burned the Holy Bible? I think he's just looking for someone to hurt him or much worst start World War 3. This guy needs to stop acting stupid. I really don't know what point he's trying to prove.
I wouldn't care too much if someone burned the Holy bible, I mean who cares, there is more where that came from!
Marie, I cannot believe you wrote that. :angry7: :angry7: :angry7: Does this mean that you side, after all, with this idiotic man, to burn their holy koran?
No I don't think it is right to do but if anyone did it it wouldn't bother me...because all bibles are lies and there is no such thing as hearing the voice of God because that is schizophrenia.
But yet you know facts about God. Here are some of your own quotes:
***Quote from: marieelissa on September 07, 2010, 04:18:09 pm
Quote from: 502mania on September 07, 2010, 04:15:38 pm
you have to go somewhere to come back, marie
Marie:
Resurrected....he died on the cross! He went to Heaven. He came back in 3 days.
jcribb:
Once again, great work, Marie! Great proof! [/quote]
***Quote from: queenofnines on Today at 05:23:35 am
Quote from: marieelissa on September 07, 2010, 05:49:28 pm
I was always told to pray to God before I read the bible for wisdom and understanding to be able to properly read the bible..Asking for the holy spirit to interpet the passages...maybe you could try that before you read the bible.
queenofnines:
So god's so incompetent that he couldn't manage to write a book that's easily understandable by all?
marie:
Who are you trying to convince here? There is nothing you can say, I believe there is a God. You ask for God because what the Devil does as you read the bible is what you are doing, misquoting text and taking stuff from here and there, it makes no sense. [/quote]
I could do more, but alas, I guess it will not help any.
-
I have to say, it's not the act of burning the book. It's the hatred behind it. If someone burned the bible, whatever....I stated in another thread, my own dad urinated on our childrens bibles when I was young. Was he on television agitating a sensitive political issue? No. It's not the action that is an issue here, it's the message it's sending.
But this....what this preacher is doing, is a passive aggressive form of violence. The Koran is an extremely sacred book to muslim people. We as Christians will highlight, make notes, even tear out pages of the bible! Muslims would never dare treat their holy book in such a way, they deem that highly disrespectful.
Do I think the Koran is holy? No. As a matter of fact I have witnessed ex muslims burn their Koran as an act of renouncement of that religion. But the act of burning it publicly to prove a point, putting people's lives in danger for your own personal agenda is outrageous! I hope to God they are only doing it for publicity and don't actually go through with it.
-
But yet you know facts about God. Here are some of your own quotes:
They aren't facts, they are man made lies. You cannot hear voices! In today's world that is a mental illness. The bible is there because someone heard voices.
That is why I say the bible is a lie!
Marie, I don't think it really matters if the bible is fact or fiction. Aesop's fables were not true stories, yet there are still valid lessons to be learned from them. The trick is figuring out what those lessons are.
As for this burning...I discussed it shortly tonight before services at my temple, and my rabbi summed it up better than I ever could. We may look at the world as think to ourselves that we will never really be able to achieve peace on earth because of the horrible things happening in the world today. However, it is the desire to prove that wrong that will help us strive to make that peace a reality.
In all honesty, I believe that activism starts at home. Yes, this guy in Florida is a whack job, and is only proving al Qaeda right in their assumption that Americans want to destroy Islam. However, there is this story I read in Chicken Soup for the Jewish Soul that stuck with me. It was about a city where the three synagogues were burned due to arson during the Chrismahannukwanzaa season. The local newspaper printed a paper menorah afterward, and the citizens had the opportunity to cut out a paper menorah and tape it in their windows, regardless of their religion. The statement was loud and clear: you mess with one of our citizens, you mess with all of us. We are all Jews now.
This story resonates loudly with me in regards to this situation. I don't agree with Islam...the Qu'ran is not my holy book...but this is hatred and intolerance, and I do not believe it should be ignored. This man and his congregation are not representative of our country, and if there was a way to organize a clear and concise statement of this, I would be one of the first in line to participate.
-
But yet you know facts about God. Here are some of your own quotes:
They aren't facts, they are man made lies. You cannot hear voices! In today's world that is a mental illness. The bible is there because someone heard voices.
That is why I say the bible is a lie!
Marie, I don't think it really matters if the bible is fact or fiction. Aesop's fables were not true stories, yet there are still valid lessons to be learned from them. The trick is figuring out what those lessons are.
It matters when people are convinced they will go to hell if they don't believe in God because that is what the bible says. Anything we know about God comes from the bible.
I have visions, I hear voices and see things and it is all a spirtual thing but yet I have been diagnosed with a mental illness...this is what I see when I look at the bible and churches, a mental illness but people want to believe in it.
Just because it happened in biblical times does not make the claims any more valid.
That is what I'm saying...whether or not the claims are valid...whether or not people actually had the word of g-d revealed to them in visions or if they were mentally ill...it doesn't make the lessons learned any less valid.
Let's say, purely hypothetically and following the New Testament, that Jesus suffered from Histrionic personality disorder. Does that make his statement of loving thy neighbor any less valid? (This isn't me saying Jesus had HPD...I don't believe that. I'm just using an example)
The ones who preach hellfire rather than love have it wrong, IMO. We need more Christians like Sherene, Annella, Sheryl, Jcribb, than we do Fred Phelps.
-
amyrouse:
I really like how you responded to Marie and hopefully ones who read those posts will be able to see this subject more clearly. I also like what Sherna posted, as well. Thanks!
-
This guy is a uneducated *bleep*..I live in Florida unfortunately and lately this is what is bred here sick sick sick and dumbass people..Makes me miss home ..
-
amyrouse:
I really like how you responded to Marie and hopefully ones who read those posts will be able to see this subject more clearly. I also like what Sherna posted, as well. Thanks!
Yes thank you amy. I appreciate your opinion of me. :)
-
This event has been canceled and in return the mosque will be moved from Ground Zero. The pastor will be flying to New York Saturday to discuss this.
Where did you see or hear this? I'm not finding anything like this in the news.
-
Do you believe everything you hear on the news? Ill believe its moved when it actually is. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning#mwpphu-container The only thing I have read on several different sites was he was flying to NY on Saturday to discuss the issue but no actual deal has been decided. Strange coincidence this trip to NY is on 9/11, couldn't pay me to get on that plane. As for the crazy pastor in FL hes just an idiot trying to cause more hate.