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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: 502mania on October 07, 2010, 09:45:26 pm
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Does anyone have agood explanation for why god dosen't help people around the world? i can understand the spoiled, over-privelaged u.s., but what about places like afganistan, north korea, etc.?
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My view is far from popular, but I believe that g-d is not an active participant in this world.
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to amyrouuse - isn't that like inventing and building a car and not using or improving it. (metaphorically speaking)
to marie - i said places like north korea, where kids can't even get basic healthcare, there are no antibiotics, they use empty beer bottles as ivs. places where kids are starving. it's not about fancy cars, clothes, tv etc. I'm talking about how people who would see a homeless person in the u.s. as living like a king. Why dosen't god help ? also the free will thing forces me to turn to QO9's post: hell is an unattended stove.
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to amyrouuse - isn't that like inventing and building a car and not using or improving it. (metaphorically speaking)
to marie - i said places like north korea, where kids can't even get basic healthcare, there are no antibiotics, they use empty beer bottles as ivs. places where kids are starving. it's not about fancy cars, clothes, tv etc. I'm talking about how people who would see a homeless person in the u.s. as living like a king. Why dosen't god help ? also the free will thing forces me to turn to QO9's post: hell is an unattended stove.
I was about to type out something similar that I thought you meant when I was alerted in red something else had been posted and saw your response above. I have no answer for you, but I often wonder the same thing, how innocent babies can die of diseases and stave to death, be beaten, etc. I have lots of ideas and theories, but no concrete beliefs on it, and my thoughts are not very popular to most either.
It really just depends on how you look at religion, what you believe in personally.
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I would say it all has a lot to do with free will.
"God will provide" shouldn't be taken so literally...he's given us the opportunities and resources, different cultures have just adapted and used them differently than others. Also, certain cultures have been overly dominated by people who abuse their free will and make bad choices...which leads to the downfall of their people...
I guess all in all I'm saying it has a lot to do with choice, also...our definition of a good life is likely a lot more greedy than his.
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but the every opportunity and resource is controlled by corrupt men all over the world. even here in the u.s.... i have a question fr the free-willers: it relates to the unattended stove thing: Could you just sit tere and watch your child crawl into a volcanoe or into any form of danger and stop and say "i wouldn't want to impose on his freewill". or if you were a teacher, would you let a few kids control the classes pencils, paper, etc. (relating to earth's resources) and just say "that's that free will thing again"???
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also, couldn't the world be just a little less fucked up, and we still have free will?
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to amyrouuse - isn't that like inventing and building a car and not using or improving it. (metaphorically speaking)
I think of it more like our parents giving birth and raising us, giving us moral guidelines to live by, and then stepping back and letting us lead our lives, come what may. Because, if g-d is an active participant, and g-d exists, why wouldn't g-d help out? Besides, on the other side of that "inventing" coin...aren't we improving as the years pass? We're evolving and adapting...g-d isn't doing that for us. We have the ability to do it ourselves. The question should be...why aren't we helping our fellow human instead of wondering why g-d isn't...
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to amyrouuse - isn't that like inventing and building a car and not using or improving it. (metaphorically speaking)
I think of it more like our parents giving birth and raising us, giving us moral guidelines to live by, and then stepping back and letting us lead our lives, come what may. Because, if g-d is an active participant, and g-d exists, why wouldn't g-d help out? Besides, on the other side of that "inventing" coin...aren't we improving as the years pass? We're evolving and adapting...g-d isn't doing that for us. We have the ability to do it ourselves. The question should be...why aren't we helping our fellow human instead of wondering why g-d isn't...
I agree 100% with the last sentence. and actually the whole post. I just wonder why god dosen't help when humans aren't able or don't know how. like, when you do go off on your own, your parents still help you out when you need it.
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to amyrouuse - isn't that like inventing and building a car and not using or improving it. (metaphorically speaking)
I think of it more like our parents giving birth and raising us, giving us moral guidelines to live by, and then stepping back and letting us lead our lives, come what may. Because, if g-d is an active participant, and g-d exists, why wouldn't g-d help out? Besides, on the other side of that "inventing" coin...aren't we improving as the years pass? We're evolving and adapting...g-d isn't doing that for us. We have the ability to do it ourselves. The question should be...why aren't we helping our fellow human instead of wondering why g-d isn't...
I agree 100% with the last sentence. and actually the whole post. I just wonder why god dosen't help when humans aren't able or don't know how. like, when you do go off on your own, your parents still help you out when you need it.
It just seems like the most logical answer to me...if g-d has the ability to help, why wouldn't g-d? Maybe g-d isn't helping because g-d said "hey, I'm going to step back, and just let them do what they're going to do." That is the only real, valid explanation of free will to me. There is free will because g-d isn't going to intervene no matter what. If g-d were to intervene, it would be like playing favorites, and g-d doesn't play favorites.
And...many parents still utilize the "sink or swim" method of teaching...food for thought...
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you just have to remember the world wasn't this messed up when He started it...it became that way when people abused their free will.
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you just have to remember the world wasn't this messed up when He started it...it became that way when people abused their free will.
When we (metaphorically, of course) ae the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? why put the tree there in the first place? and why punish generation after generation for the crime of TWO people? if someone goes to jail for murder, he deserves it, but does the rest of his family generation from that moment on deserve to be jailed for life?
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Life is like a school, when the flesh is stripped from your spirit, all that is left is your knowledge and what you learned.
i like that answer marie.
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Does anyone have agood explanation for why god dosen't help people around the world?
Because god doesn't exist. Really, if you think about it, this answer makes sense. The world looks and operates exactly as it should if there is no god.
God only exists in the minds of the desperate. Ever notice how everyone has their own idea of what god wants? This is because such a being is not actually there.
also, couldn't the world be just a little less fucked up, and we still have free will?
Exactly. The free will excuse is B.S. Keep asking yourself these kinds of questions -- you're on the right track! :thumbsup:
My favorite videos on this subject:
God Has A Plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oNhL1wCgg
God's Divine Plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FhTzHVZ0h0
God Only SEEMS Nonexistent! (comedy): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnjfxCp92pc
Welcome To This World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rwioe1SGkQ
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you just have to remember the world wasn't this messed up when He started it...it became that way when people abused their free will.
Freewill in Eden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXMFgKXPoNY
Omniscient Sadist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6whlJwjSA
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I have a hard time taking any of this seriously because...it isn't that bad because people continue to have babies after babies after babies. People in North Korea don't seem to mind, they have babies after babies after babies.
I would think, if life was that horrible then people wouldn't have children, they wouldn't bring babies into a world where they will just suffer and be miserable.
If things were that miserable, you wouldn't have sex.
You need to stop using this weak, nonsensical argument, marie. Poor people have babies for a variety of reasons: they're too irresponsible to use birth control, they got raped, they're trying to cash in on welfare, they think a kid will bring meaning to their miserable lives, they're selfish and too stupid to think about the children suffering. Very rarely is it an active decision to bring more mouths to feed into this world for a lot of people.
Also, we're compelled by our genes to reproduce like mad. Some people just can't help themselves.
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Talking about other countries and over population/babies? It may come as a huge surprise, but Taiwan is now considering following the lead of Japan, South Korea, and Singapore. The governments in those last 3 countries subsidize IVF (in vitro fertilization) because their numbers of births have vastly decreased in the last 10 years and they now want to increase birthrates and need more babies born. It is necessary for their economic workforces as the older retire. I know, sounds crazy, but it is true.
As far as god not providing for people, I was personally corrected on that when I said it in another thread. I stated not seeing evidence of money, food, housing, health, etc. being dropped into anyone's lap. I was told god can, will, and does provide for those who believe in and go to him and that this has been seen in this person's life many times. That is not the exact wording, but close enough. So does that in turn become another implication that if you are specifically a follower of god, you are okay, but if you follow another 'deity' you are out? Many third world countries do not identify with god, so that must be what the problem is, eh?
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God didn't create more of himself though I am sure he could, he chose to create creatures that can think for themselves.
So, using the 'god created all creatures' basis, what you said above doesn't apply across the board. If by saying creatures you mean a living organism, then many of the invertebrates, plants, protozoans, fungi etc. do not have a 'brain', but almost all are necessary parts of the ecological chain of life here on earth. They are able to react to their surroundings, stimuli, etc., but they certainly can't think for themselves.
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This is probably a terrible reason but, he doesn't just stop what's happening in the world and puts "the one taunting him" to rule, so we can see that man can't direct his own step. Let's say your best friend slandered your reputation, is it better to punch that person in the face, or is it better for others to find out that person is a liar?
It's coming soon, it's been 6,000+ years now!!! 7 is in important number in the bible signifying completion.
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The difference between a person that believes in god and a person that doesn't is...one needs something to beliveing in to make their lives better and the other needs only themselves!
I really hate these religious post and can see why all my other forums don't allow it.
God does not exist.
Saying that it is sad the way others have to live through out the world, I know most of the time it is out of their hands.
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Not true. Maybe for some people but I would be fine if I found out for sure there was no God..
I have a hard time believing you'd be "fine" if you could one day be on the same intellectual level as those who know the Christian god doesn't exist. You may dabble in agnosticism at times, but you always come back to your personal, mushy version of god.
Marie's made-up god: very loosely based on the Christian deity, as she's only read a few pages of the Bible; used evolution to create us (conflicting with said Christian god); believes homosexuals are people, too (good! but this doesn't jive with Biblegod); believes god is not active in this world when you point out all the suffering (again, this contradicts the Christian god she pretends to defend); somehow still believes in the devil and heaven and hell...
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Not true. Maybe for some people but I would be fine if I found out for sure there was no God..
I have a hard time believing you'd be "fine" if you could one day be on the same intellectual level as those who know the Christian god doesn't exist. You may dabble in agnosticism at times, but you always come back to your personal, mushy version of god.
Marie's made-up god: very loosely based on the Christian deity, as she's only read a few pages of the Bible; used evolution to create us (conflicting with said Christian god); believes homosexuals are people, too (good! but this doesn't jive with Biblegod); believes god is not active in this world when you point out all the suffering (again, this contradicts the Christian god she pretends to defend); somehow still believes in the devil and heaven and hell...
The "same intellectual level"?
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you just have to remember the world wasn't this messed up when He started it...it became that way when people abused their free will.
When we (metaphorically, of course) ae the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? why put the tree there in the first place? and why punish generation after generation for the crime of TWO people? if someone goes to jail for murder, he deserves it, but does the rest of his family generation from that moment on deserve to be jailed for life?
Well once they took that step, it's not like their offspring could be kept in innocence. He has provided us with enough to help ourselves and others, we just choose not to take advantage of it.
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I'd be fine...remember I still have the voices and hallucinations, whether God is real or not.
I'd be a little upset, but who wouldn't?
You are simply a nut job that needs mentally help...even your crutch (god) can't help you. ::)
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We will see who the nut is when we all die. I bet I will be laughing at your *bleep* in hell...saying who's the nut job now!! :P
Pssshhhhh. right after you go to candy land and play poker with the easter bunny.
But back on topic. So why did god even put the tree here in the first place? to test us for some type of experiment? So we're all guinea pigs?
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We will see who the nut is when we all die. I bet I will be laughing at your *bleep* in hell...saying who's the nut job now!! :P
Pssshhhhh. right after you go to candy land and play poker with the easter bunny.
But back on topic. So why did god even put the tree here in the first place? to test us for some type of experiment? So we're all guinea pigs?
Why are you talking about nonsense? Huh? Play candy land with the Easter Bunny! What the hell are you talking about God for if this is how you feel? Seems retarded to me.
The stuff i mentioned is imaginary, just like hell.
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OK marie, please, i don't want to argue the existence of heaven or hell. Just want everones poin of view on why god dosen't help, etc..
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Pssshhhhh. right after you go to candy land and play poker with the easter bunny.
lol
So why did god even put the tree here in the first place? to test us for some type of experiment? So we're all guinea pigs?
Some of the logical fails surrounding the story:
#1 A "perfect" god was incomplete in the aspect of needing/wanting to create ANYTHING. Therefore, he's not actually perfect.
#2 What exactly was god doing for the eternity before October 23, 4004 B.C. (the Biblical date of creation)?
#3 A perfect god would not need 7 days to make anything.
#4 A perfect god would be incapable of creating anything imperfect or have the capacity to become imperfect. And yet enter humans.
#5 God - being "omniscient" - already knew of every horror that would ever happen before it did. And yet he planted the mine that set it all in motion.
#6 Adam and Eve could not have known right from wrong BEFORE eating the fruit that contained the knowledge of good and evil. So it's like god is punishing the dog who didn't know any better.
Isn't it great that we have now have the intelligence to pick apart and expose these primitive myths for what they really are -- fearful attempts to explain a pre-scientific world.
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#6 Adam and Eve could not have known right from wrong BEFORE eating the fruit that contained the knowledge of good and evil. So it's like god is punishing the dog who didn't know any better.
I have seen parents put children in time out...they didnt know any better, but they need to learn it was BAD. They don't need to know right from wrong, just that God told them not too.
A parent leaves an 8 year old in the house and tells the child things they are not suppost to do, like turn on the stove, what do you think the first thing that child is gonna do? Turn on the damn stove!!
You really want God, to hover and make all your choices for you? Thanks to him, I can think for myself.
I put my child in time out...but only after I have explained to her several times why she is making a bad choice. It would be wrong for a parent to point, say "don't do that" without giving an explanation, and then spanking the child after bringing it to her attention and she does the "forbidden act" out of curiosity. It teaches the wrong lessons. Besides that...when did we get the capacity for reason? After we gained the capacity for knowledge. How is a child supposed to know what "bad" is without it being explained or experienced? The fall from grace is not equivalent to a time out. I hate the prevalent view that Eve sinned by eating from the tree...it makes no sense.
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#6 Adam and Eve could not have known right from wrong BEFORE eating the fruit that contained the knowledge of good and evil. So it's like god is punishing the dog who didn't know any better.
I have seen parents put children in time out...they didnt know any better, but they need to learn it was BAD. They don't need to know right from wrong, just that God told them not too.
A parent leaves an 8 year old in the house and tells the child things they are not suppost to do, like turn on the stove, what do you think the first thing that child is gonna do? Turn on the damn stove!!
You really want God, to hover and make all your choices for you? Thanks to him, I can think for myself.
I put my child in time out...but only after I have explained to her several times why she is making a bad choice. It would be wrong for a parent to point, say "don't do that" without giving an explanation, and then spanking the child after bringing it to her attention and she does the "forbidden act" out of curiosity. It teaches the wrong lessons. Besides that...when did we get the capacity for reason? After we gained the capacity for knowledge. How is a child supposed to know what "bad" is without it being explained or experienced? The fall from grace is not equivalent to a time out. I hate the prevalent view that Eve sinned by eating from the tree...it makes no sense.
Whatever works for you.
And out comes the rude attitude again...
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#6 Adam and Eve could not have known right from wrong BEFORE eating the fruit that contained the knowledge of good and evil. So it's like god is punishing the dog who didn't know any better.
I have seen parents put children in time out...they didnt know any better, but they need to learn it was BAD. They don't need to know right from wrong, just that God told them not too.
A parent leaves an 8 year old in the house and tells the child things they are not suppost to do, like turn on the stove, what do you think the first thing that child is gonna do? Turn on the damn stove!!
You really want God, to hover and make all your choices for you? Thanks to him, I can think for myself.
I put my child in time out...but only after I have explained to her several times why she is making a bad choice. It would be wrong for a parent to point, say "don't do that" without giving an explanation, and then spanking the child after bringing it to her attention and she does the "forbidden act" out of curiosity. It teaches the wrong lessons. Besides that...when did we get the capacity for reason? After we gained the capacity for knowledge. How is a child supposed to know what "bad" is without it being explained or experienced? The fall from grace is not equivalent to a time out. I hate the prevalent view that Eve sinned by eating from the tree...it makes no sense.
Whatever works for you.
And out comes the rude attitude again...
Well I find it rude when you try to imply I am wrong...so in return, believe whatever works for you.
Debate is about opposing sides. If you can't handle that, don't debate. I don't see what I said as rude, only as a differing viewpoint. If it came across as rude, I apologize. However...when I disagree with someone, I am not going to withhold my opposing viewpoint just because someone thinks my having a different opinion is rude. To use your own words here, pull up your big girl panties and deal with it.
A base to the definition of debate is opposing viewpoints: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/debate
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Tell 'er Amyrouse!
But back on topic once again. A christain pastor once told me that jesus' crucifixion was planned before man was created. That proves that god made us knowing that we would fail, and have to suffer. I don't buy that. Tere HAS to be a reason for the way things are. also, for the punishing children analogies: if your child DOES do what you told him/her not to, would you punish every sibling after that child for their crime? Why is all of humanity punished for adam and eve's crime?
Yeah and confirm the fact that we were created from Dust ;)
I believe we were created (maybe not by a god or deity) from the earth (not literally from dust). in fact, the human body contains just about every element on the planet, although, we are mostly water.
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We will see who the nut is when we all die. I bet I will be laughing at your *bleep* in hell...saying who's the nut job now!! :P
Pssshhhhh. right after you go to candy land and play poker with the easter bunny.
But back on topic. So why did god even put the tree here in the first place? to test us for some type of experiment? So we're all guinea pigs?
I would say to show us that he really is being honest, and to give them the free will to choose what their life would entail... he did fully warn them.
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I would say to show us that he really is being honest, and to give them the free will to choose what their life would entail... he did fully warn them.
But it dosen't make sense to punish every human being of every generation after that. I've read a lot of the bible, and it explains a lot of the problems we have today (you have to work the land, etc.), but why punish EVERYONE that exists after that?
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Marie, save yourself the time of dissecting any logical argument I present. You're "rebuttals" are weak and silly at best, and mostly miss the point overall.
if your child DOES do what you told him/her not to, would you punish every sibling after that child for their crime? Why is all of humanity punished for adam and eve's crime?
You are dead-on. :) Nonstampcollector has some good videos about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGkgmU9vG_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QecUUnLNSiY
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Wow it is so easy to argue the side of atheists.
Uh, no, we don't just go around saying "there is no god" for every reply. We point out the flaws in theist thinking; we provide resources.
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Reading some of the replies is sickening. Yes there is a God and yes He does watch of us each and everyday. He is real and so is the Bible. Yes, He does want the best of each of us. He teaches through the Bible, Church and Christians. He does not punish every generation if that generation turns from the sin. I have been through a lot of things in the last few years, but never once did I blame God or say that He isn't real. I learned from what was happening , even with the sickness of my children, and grew in faith. I am a stronger person and better person for my believe in God. I would rather believe in Him than on judgment day try to tell Him that he wasn't real. God is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the Great I am, the One and Only. No matter the tragedies that happen in my live, I WILL never turn away from my faith and believe in God. There is evil in the world because people have let Satan rule their lives instead of God.
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Reading some of the replies is sickening. Yes there is a God and yes He does watch of us each and everyday. He is real and so is the Bible. Yes, He does want the best of each of us. He teaches through the Bible, Church and Christians. He does not punish every generation if that generation turns from the sin. I have been through a lot of things in the last few years, but never once did I blame God or say that He isn't real. I learned from what was happening , even with the sickness of my children, and grew in faith. I am a stronger person and better person for my believe in God. I would rather believe in Him than on judgment day try to tell Him that he wasn't real. God is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the Great I am, the One and Only. No matter the tragedies that happen in my live, I WILL never turn away from my faith and believe in God. There is evil in the world because people have let Satan rule their lives instead of God.
YES he does punish every generation! that's the reason "man cannot be without sin". He teaches us through christians? The same people who preach the word of jesus and ignore it at the same time? "give all your wealth to the poor" jesus said, "that's how you get to heaven". But the catholic church is one of the RICHEST oganizations on earth? they take donations! the bible? the bible justifies slavery! even gives prices for slaves.
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God is not here to coddle us and give us everything we desire he helps and has a plan for everyone of us, we may not understand but he's in every rock every tree, and even the pavement we walk on, he is a being and energy we can't comprehend. He shows in every belife and religion, and even though we *bleep* him off he knows we are only of flesh and will make mistakes accordingly he only asks like a father that we learn from those mistakes and gain a better understanding of him :heart:
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He teaches through the Bible, Church and Christians.
And your proof that all of the thousands of other religions/gods are bunk is where...?
There is evil in the world because people have let Satan rule their lives instead of God.
Actually, there is much evil in the world due to religious/political agendas. This is fact.
And FYI: your religion would look a little less ridiculous if you retired the imaginary concept of an invisible, mind-controlling bogeyman. Consider this your free marketing advice. :thumbsup:
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and even though we *bleep* him off he knows we are only of flesh and will make mistakes accordingly he only asks like a father that we learn from those mistakes and gain a better understanding of him :heart:
he created us to make mistakes? or he didn't know we would make mistakes? both insist he s imperfect. And when i make a mistake, my father teaches me to not make the same mistake, not punish every sibling born after me for those mistakes.
God isn't here to give us what we want? i asked about people who don't even have food or medical care. if your child/pet/creation was starvng, would you feed him/her/it? no wait, that would impose on "free will", right?
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you make mistakes because you are not God.
God didn't make a mistake in creating us? In the bible it says man was made to be perfect, immortal, and all that great stuff. but man made a mistake, therefore, god made a mistake in creating a supposedly "perfect" lifeform.
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502mania...site you might enjoy: http://www.godisimaginary.com/
:angel12:
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502mania...site you might enjoy: http://www.godisimaginary.com/
:angel12:
I saw that site just 20 minutes before you posted it. lol. it is a good site, i bookmarked it.
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you make mistakes because you are not God.
God didn't make a mistake in creating us? In the bible it says man was made to be perfect, immortal, and all that great stuff. but man made a mistake, therefore, god made a mistake in creating a supposedly "perfect" lifeform.
Look we don't have all the answers, it is just a matter of what you believe and what works for you. Why does God do this and that... :dontknow: I could try to give an answer but God has never said why to me. I can't speak for God either.
nobody has ALL the answers. but you will never find them in any relgion because each is either flawed beyond reasonability or hypocritical. i won't say god dosen't exist, i won't say he/she/it does either, but "holy" books andreligions are too biased to find answers. you've got to literally think outside the box
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That's why I was confused when people ask what religion I am. I don't have one. I do believe in God though.
Typically, if you claim Jesus was the messiah or g-d or anything as such then you are a Christian. You've also stated before that you are Baptist. You've also stated that g-d talks to you.
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:cat: Yes, you can be both Baptist and a Christian. I am of Baptist faith (or denomination) and support the Baptist doctrines. Because I believe in Christ and have a personal faith in Him and grow spiritually through His Word, I am a Christian.
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:cat: Yes, you can be both Baptist and a Christian. I am of Baptist faith (or denomination) and support the Baptist doctrines. Because I believe in Christ and have a personal faith in Him and grow spiritually through His Word, I am a Christian.
Yep...and I've explained the same thing to Marie before when she claimed that she, in fact, was not Christian but a Baptist. Now she's claiming she's not...that she's not Christian at all, but spiritual. If she claims, though, that Jesus is her savior, then wouldn't that make her Christian?
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This is true.
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I would say to show us that he really is being honest, and to give them the free will to choose what their life would entail... he did fully warn them.
But it dosen't make sense to punish every human being of every generation after that. I've read a lot of the bible, and it explains a lot of the problems we have today (you have to work the land, etc.), but why punish EVERYONE that exists after that?
but how could adam and eve's offspring live the life without the information acquired from the tree of knowledge if adam and eve couldnt live that life, idk if that came out right haha lemme try again
if adam and eve had to live that life, how could they raise offspring in separate life
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Reading some of the replies is sickening. Yes there is a God and yes He does watch of us each and everyday. He is real and so is the Bible. Yes, He does want the best of each of us. He teaches through the Bible, Church and Christians. He does not punish every generation if that generation turns from the sin. I have been through a lot of things in the last few years, but never once did I blame God or say that He isn't real. I learned from what was happening , even with the sickness of my children, and grew in faith. I am a stronger person and better person for my believe in God. I would rather believe in Him than on judgment day try to tell Him that he wasn't real. God is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the Great I am, the One and Only. No matter the tragedies that happen in my live, I WILL never turn away from my faith and believe in God. There is evil in the world because people have let Satan rule their lives instead of God.
Ladysurvivor, welcome to the forum, and don't let some of these posts scare you away. There are a lot of Christians on here and your in good company.
Your post above made the most sense of any I've read so far why things are as they are in the world today. People have let the enemy rule their lives, and be the center of their world. We all go through trial and tests in this world (It rains on the Just and unjust the same). We know who is the Author and Finisher of our Faith, and trust Him to bring us through with more growth and understanding in Him. God is not going to overstep the will of mankind.....here it is again.......CHOICE!.
You can't argue the Bible or God's overcoming power with those who do not believe the Bible or that God exists (you weren't arguing....just making a statement of fact here). It goes in circles. Your post was very good, and I can relate 100% to it. It was Truth, and to the point.
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Reading some of the replies is sickening. Yes there is a God and yes He does watch of us each and everyday. He is real and so is the Bible. Yes, He does want the best of each of us. He teaches through the Bible, Church and Christians. He does not punish every generation if that generation turns from the sin. I have been through a lot of things in the last few years, but never once did I blame God or say that He isn't real. I learned from what was happening , even with the sickness of my children, and grew in faith. I am a stronger person and better person for my believe in God. I would rather believe in Him than on judgment day try to tell Him that he wasn't real. God is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the Great I am, the One and Only. No matter the tragedies that happen in my live, I WILL never turn away from my faith and believe in God. There is evil in the world because people have let Satan rule their lives instead of God.
I agree, absolutely, with you, ladysurvivor regarding your faith in God, no matter the circumstances. I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him. So many arguments are centered around proof/no proof of God and refuse to see that faith is the substance of our trust in our Lord. Many do not believe what is coming, according to Revelations, in the Bible (God's Word) because they refuse to believe it is God's Word. Like Annella says, it's our choice and their choice how they believe. :cat:
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but how could adam and eve's offspring live the life without the information acquired from the tree of knowledge if adam and eve couldnt live that life, idk if that came out right haha lemme try again
if adam and eve had to live that life, how could they raise offspring in separate life
God is supposed to be perfect. so he could have made it possible. right? he can do anything, can't he?
Also the bible supports sexism, slavery, senseless murder of anyone who works on the sabbath, disobedient teens, homosexuals, and atheists. so you guys are reffering a book that condones this stuff? how about we all follow the bible. we kill millions of americans who all work on the sabbath (sunday), we kill all homosexuals, any adulterers, disobedient children, etc.... we support that women shouldn't speak in church or have power over men, and we have slaves and beat them - as long as we don't kill them. also, jesus spoke to SELL all of your material posessions and give to the poor, to have riches in heaven. but the catholic church is one of the RICHEST organizations on the planet. they even take donations as if their gold ain't glitter enough.
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I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?
Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me. We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love? I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them ;) ). That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return. My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation. Why isn't that enough?
I'm done babbling now... :notworthy:
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
Thall shall not kill and also because it is not in me to kill, and if God wants to punish me for it (not killing) then so be it.
so the bible isn't god's word? or is god a hypocrite? because the bible says to kill atheists, homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children, women who are not virgins when married etc.... also have you ever spoken in church? the bible says women shouldn't speak in church without permission from her husband.
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
I'm going to address this as simple as I can. The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace". We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law. God was the lawgiver in the Old Testament and was laying a foundation to all humanity. Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required. You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how. All your questions require much study and writing. In those days, there was no Savior, and mans sins were not remitted....only rolled ahead. God's judgement was on earth.
We no longer "purge" the sin in the camp as was ordered to the Hebrew children. Different age, different dispensation. We obey God's laws, also are told to obey the laws of the land. We may still not agree with what is clearly something hated in the Bible and be in agreement with God, but judgement is God's. The dispensation of Judgement is coming, and God (who is the lawgiver), will Judge. Until then, we have the opportunity to be "saved" by Grace.
This is as simple an explanation I can give you without giving you a full on Bible Study from Genesis to Revelation.
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I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?
Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me. We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love? I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them ;) ). That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return. My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation. Why isn't that enough?
I'm done babbling now... :notworthy:
I don't know where you got the Apostle Paul had no place in Heaven. He said "I've fought the good fight, and there is a crown laid up for me".
We choose to love God, not for a reward. I myself could care less about the mansions, etc. I want to see the one who died for me that I might have life. That's why I love HIM, because he died for me, and is as real to me everyday as my own family and friends. I love HIM more everyday. It's a personal relationship with God, not a passing hi or bye on Sunday because I'm scared of hell, or there is a reward.
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
Thall shall not kill and also because it is not in me to kill, and if God wants to punish me for it (not killing) then so be it.
so the bible isn't god's word? or is god a hypocrite? because the bible says to kill atheists, homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children, women who are not virgins when married etc.... also have you ever spoken in church? the bible says women shouldn't speak in church without permission from her husband.
I guess you do want a Bible study. I'm going to answer this question for you, but need to look up some scripture. Your referring to the New Testament scriptures when Paul was writing to a church.
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
I'm going to address this as simple as I can. The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace". We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law.
But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.
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Marie, i'm trying to get at answers, the are lots of religious people here, i thought you guys could help.
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you know what is funny, is I can see the devil in these words...he is so predictable (the devil that is)
what words? the words of the bible?
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
I'm going to address this as simple as I can. The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace". We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law.
But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.
Can I ask what the hell you are getting at?
for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
I'm going to address this as simple as I can. The Old Testament teachings were types and shadows of the pointing to the birth, death, resurrection of our Savior, which opened up the age of dispensation of "Grace". We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law.
But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.
Your taking the scripture out of context instead of the "whole". Are you reading my answering posts at all? In the Old Testament, the Lawgiver was God. There was NO Savior or remission of sins. Law and Judgement were ON EARTH. Read my last post on the dispensation of Grace TODAY.
Now....I was going to address the women speaking in church....do you want me to answer that question or do you want to still shoot out questions like bullets without giving me a chance to answer them?
Here's a question....do you even believe the Bible? If not, why should I give you any Biblical answers out of the WORD to which your referring?
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I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?
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I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?
Did you read my post before or not? doesn't sound like you did, or you wouldn't be asking how your taking scripture out of context. Your talking OT ONLY.....get it?
If you don't believe the Bible, why should I give you chapter and verse to give answers to your questions? Also, your asking separate questions found in different testaments. Also, you called God a hypocrite which I take great offense to. If you really want to know something, I'll be happy to tell you, but not to idle disputations. I've already answered one of your questions.
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I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?
Maybe because you need to read the entire book...from start to finish. Not just pick out parts of it.
It would go something like this if you did...
In the beginning, I am the alpha omega, amen.
Thank you Marie. How do you get the "location" from everyone on FC? Kinda cool how your doing it.
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I wouldn't use the bible as a history book. but how am i taking scipture out of context?
Maybe because you need to read the entire book...from start to finish. Not just pick out parts of it.
It would go something like this if you did...
In the beginning, I am the alpha omega, amen.
Thank you Marie. How do you get the "location" from everyone on FC? Kinda cool how your doing it.
http://revolvermaps.com/
HaHa Fooled you sweetie! My laptop may be connected to the IP of where I live, but not where I am right now! Try to find me now. Just having fun with ya sugar! I'll be there by Tuesday, then you'll be right.
You are so smart with the computer girl!
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I never called god a hypocrite. i said IF he says not to kill but says you SHOULD kill people who do not follow his word, that's hypocritical.
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I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?
Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me. We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love? I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them ;) ). That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return. My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation. Why isn't that enough?
I'm done babbling now... :notworthy:
I don't know where you got the Apostle Paul had no place in Heaven. He said "I've fought the good fight, and there is a crown laid up for me".
We choose to love God, not for a reward. I myself could care less about the mansions, etc. I want to see the one who died for me that I might have life. That's why I love HIM, because he died for me, and is as real to me everyday as my own family and friends. I love HIM more everyday. It's a personal relationship with God, not a passing hi or bye on Sunday because I'm scared of hell, or there is a reward.
Like I said, I may be wrong. I probably misheard or remembered it incorrectly...but someone once told me that Paul, before he was Paul, was Saul and he actually talked all kinds of crap (sorry for the vernacular...but I'm remembering something from my teenage years), but when he met or conversed with Jesus he realized he was wrong, and felt that he had no place in heaven because of it...but all throughout the rest of his days he was in some kind of imprisonment and wrote letters about the glory of Jesus...see...I'm probably butchering this because its Christian scripture and not something in my normal daily study... (I wish there was a blushing emoticon up there...LOL) :-[
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I do agree with ladysurvivor, but...
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm delving into Christian scripture here...didn't the Apostle Paul believe in Jesus and spread his word knowing that there was no place for him in heaven?
Thinking about that...loving g-d just to earn a place in the afterlife doesn't seem like a true love to me. We say "if you love something you've got to let it go" and that people who truly love someone will love them regardless of if they love them in return...there should be no question of reward in love for g-d, otherwise, how is it pure, true love? I have no idea where I'm headed in the afterlife, and I don't place much stock in heaven or hell, but I love g-d with all my heart, and I do my best to love all of g-d's people (although, like Annella has said...many of them make it difficult to love them ;) ). That's why I place no stock in Pascal's wager...it seems wrong to me to love someone/thing and expect a reward in return. My reward is loving g-d and knowing g-d's creation. Why isn't that enough?
I'm done babbling now... :notworthy:
I don't know where you got the Apostle Paul had no place in Heaven. He said "I've fought the good fight, and there is a crown laid up for me".
We choose to love God, not for a reward. I myself could care less about the mansions, etc. I want to see the one who died for me that I might have life. That's why I love HIM, because he died for me, and is as real to me everyday as my own family and friends. I love HIM more everyday. It's a personal relationship with God, not a passing hi or bye on Sunday because I'm scared of hell, or there is a reward.
Like I said, I may be wrong. I probably misheard or remembered it incorrectly...but someone once told me that Paul, before he was Paul, was Saul and he actually talked all kinds of crap (sorry for the vernacular...but I'm remembering something from my teenage years), but when he met or conversed with Jesus he realized he was wrong, and felt that he had no place in heaven because of it...but all throughout the rest of his days he was in some kind of imprisonment and wrote letters about the glory of Jesus...see...I'm probably butchering this because its Christian scripture and not something in my normal daily study... (I wish there was a blushing emoticon up there...LOL) :-[
Uh yeah, you got it mixed up. He was imprisoned and wrote Epistles to the churches that were formed (in NT), AFTER he traveled preaching and teaching. Apostle Paul traveled all over founding churches before he was put in prison.
How it started was he was blinded on the road to Damascus, with a light from Heaven, and Jesus revealed himself to him, and told him he was persecuting the Christians wrongfully. He realized that Jesus was the Messiah. He had before put the new Christians to death thinking he was doing God's work as a Jew. Because Jews don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.....as you know.
However, he said in prison when his death was at hand:
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith: Henceforth, there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the LORD, the Righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: And not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing. II Timothy 4:7-8
Not exactly words from a man with nothing to look forward to. It doesn't matter what Apostle Paul did before his conversion, because his sins were remitted, and under the blood of Jesus, he was forgiven.
However, it is in the NT. which I know you don't believe, but it's where you were referring.
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so, anella, i'm taking the killing out of context? or the slavery?
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so, anella, i'm taking the killing out of context? or the slavery?
I answered this earlier (killing) in 2 previous posts....GO READ THEM!!! You may not be understanding it because you don't understand Salvation, and what it actually wipes out or atones for, and it's absence in the Old Testament. We are in the "Grace" period, not the LAW as those in the OLD Testament. Is the Law done away with? No, it is handled differently in the dispensation we are living in (GRACE). God will still judge everyone on the Day of Judgement. Take note: The Bible is the Law we will be judged on, but we can escape it by opting for Salvation (now....Grace). Things changed when Jesus died on the cross. This is the pivotal point.
Slaves were mostly taken from other races of people that were conquered in battle. Sometimes, it was just a lucrative occupation for someone to "hire" themselves out to someone as a slave to keep from starving. Slaves were a way of life back then. Back then, slaves were part of the inheritance that were passed from generation to generation. It was forbidden to make slaves of your own race. Most slaves came from tribes of idol worshippers who were not put to death after a war. There were laws regarding the treatment of slaves. Some Jews would have children by their slaves, and sometimes share in the inheritance and blessing as heirs. In some third world countries, slavery still goes on. We no longer own human beings as property (NT). Again, after Jesus came, a lot of this was changed how people were treated called slaves. Also, plural marriages were discounted by the LORD also. It was the hardness of man's heart a lot of what was implemented in the Old Testament, and had nothing to do with God implementing it.
Today, we do not buy or sell slaves, but we still hire other people to do other jobs for us. Childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc. What is the difference? We don't OWN them. There are Filipinos and other races that hire themselves out all over the world as domestic workers. They live with the family and perform "services" for the families that hired them. They get paid a wage, but they are actually hired workers.
You have to take both the Old and New Testaments, and remember that the Old was "types and shadows", and fulfilling in the NEW. While our living situations have changed, the Law has not. It just has been dealt with differently than in the Old Testament when there was no Judgement but God ON EARTH. The killing of offenders was Judged by GOD. Even in the Old Testament, if someone killed someone randomly, it was displeasing to God, and judged accordingly.
That's about as far as I can go into this. I could write reams and reams about why and wherefore, but this will give you a good idea.
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We all go through trial and tests in this world (It rains on the Just and unjust the same).
"It rains on the just and the unjust the same"...hmm...kinda like it would if there was no god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m12mZiiaWuw
It was Truth, and to the point.
If you only knew how ironic it is for you to claim ownership of the word "truth" (with a capital T!)...
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I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.
jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME. It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4) (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)
Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument. So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof. YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS. There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.
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for all of you who take the bible literally: why don't you go kill the people the bible tells you to? is it because it's wrong? but the bible can't be wrong, it even says that god's word is prerfect. the bible is supposedly god's word, right?
Get ready for the excuses!!:
...THAT WAS THE OLD TESTAMENT! Even though the Ten Commandments are in there, and much of the gay stuff, and I thought god doesn't change, and oh...Jesus said in the NT that he WASN'T there to take away ANY of the law. So any Christian who uses this excuse is a hypocrite!
...PSH, CONTEXT! Like somehow it's okay for daughters to rape their dad, slaves to be beaten, god/man to murder people...as long as you read it in the right CONTEXT!!!
...THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS! You've just got to read it like, a whole. So when the different gospels effed up the date on which Jesus was resurrected, etc...just come up with a slick excuse and say that the different accounts are in harmony! And when in doubt, go with the one that jives with what's societally accepted today! :thumbsup:
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We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law...Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required.
So basically you're saying that because our ancestors were barbaric idiots, it was okay for THEM to kill, lie, and steal, but not us. Sorry, but that kind of "reasoning" doesn't fly. HE'S GOD. He could and should have come up with rules/policies that didn't involve MASS GENOCIDE if he wants me to believe he is actually god. How can you people read the Old Testament and be cool with god giving direct orders for the murder of MILLIONS??? While saying "thou shalt not kill" in the next breath - PSSH! Hello, that's a HUGE CLUE your "perfect, loving, just" god is a phony!!
You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.
Fun fact about the Koran: did you know that it, like the Bible, also contradicts itself by saying kill...no don't kill!...kill...BUT there is also a part that says, "Any Scripture that came before that seems to conflict with what I am saying now, disregard it". That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!
All your questions require much study and writing.
Because god wants everyone to be saved but is also as confusing as possible. Wait, that's not it. It takes much effort and cross-referencing to craft the B.S. answers to your questions, 502!
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But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.
Christians don't think about these things, 502...and that's why they're still Christians. ;D
P.S. Most anyone who says they don't care about the heaven bit are full of it!! As Adam Carrola says, "If a few thousand years ago I came up with a religion or god that said, 'everything's good, you do unto others, and you love your neighbor, stay out of trouble, and when you die, that's about it. You just turn into dirt.' TELL ME IF YOU THINK THAT CONCEPT WOULD HAVE TAKEN OFF? No, it wouldn't of. We NEED this because we're freaked out...we're the only creatures on the planet that are aware that we're going to die and that's the way it works. And we're freaked out. We have no reference point for 'zero'. We can deal with ANYTHING but zero. Go ahead and live the next 80 years on this planet, knowing that at the end of the journey there's a big fat zero and you can't wrap your brain around it. Well, I'll tell you how people wrap their brain around it: THEY LIE TO THEMSELVES and create a god."
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Today, we do not buy or sell slaves, but we still hire other people to do other jobs for us. Childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc. What is the difference?
What's the difference??? Uh, you don't BEAT the help today, duh!!
What's the difference?? People today take jobs VOLUNTARILY and can LEAVE AT ANY TIME...not so with the slaves from your Bible!!
Come on now, are you really THAT desperate to believe in god that you would make the unimaginable faux pas of comparing today's service workers to SLAVES???!!
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God was the lawgiver in the Old Testament and was laying a foundation to all humanity. Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required. You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.
Again we have the "must take the whole of god's word to understand". I have seen this repeatedly and take it as meaning both the OT and the NT, correct? If that is true, it once again makes me think that people like Amyrouse are being 'slighted' by any and all Christians. Those who are of the Jewish faith, in studying/applying only the OT are NOT using the whole Bible, so they are not getting the "whole" of god's word.
Now, before you get yourself all fired up and start implying I am trying to divide the friends of your's and/or the Christians/believers on here, or anywhere, save it because it is a bunch of bull - and I have heard that accusation enough too. Everytime I see that it comes across as The Christian Superiority in action and I do not care for it, not that that matters to you, but I am saying it anyway. I don't know how anyone with half a brain could NOT come to that same thinking if they have followed any of the discussions on here.
That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!
Blatant mistake there, queen. Remember? All Islamic/Muslims are kill happy - they want any and all infidels dead. :(
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For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.
Since you think my God is a phony and you don't believe the Bible, then go your way and believe what you want.
Your also picking and choosing certain CONTEXT and expounding on it in ERROR.
While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest), what has that got to do with God? I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible. Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me. The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.
You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace. I do have a study that I give (24 lessons) over all the dispensations and timeline of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and what and why things were as they were. I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.
Since you don't believe the Bible or that God exists, then there really isn't any debate with you on any level. We are at opposite ends of the spectrum, and will never agree. Adieu
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God was the lawgiver in the Old Testament and was laying a foundation to all humanity. Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required. You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.
Again we have the "must take the whole of god's word to understand". I have seen this repeatedly and take it as meaning both the OT and the NT, correct? If that is true, it once again makes me think that people like Amyrouse are being 'slighted' by any and all Christians. Those who are of the Jewish faith, in studying/applying only the OT are NOT using the whole Bible, so they are not getting the "whole" of god's word.
Now, before you get yourself all fired up and start implying I am trying to divide the friends of your's and/or the Christians/believers on here, or anywhere, save it because it is a bunch of bull - and I have heard that accusation enough too. Everytime I see that it comes across as The Christian Superiority in action and I do not care for it, not that that matters to you, but I am saying it anyway. I don't know how anyone with half a brain could NOT come to that same thinking if they have followed any of the discussions on here.
That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!
Blatant mistake there, queen. Remember? All Islamic/Muslims are kill happy - they want any and all infidels dead. :(
Your opinion is just that.....your opinion, and your entitled to it. I don't have to agree with it.
If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it. I was merely discussing the difference in religions. How you interpret anything I post is just that......your interpretation or opinion.
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If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.
You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.
Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.
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I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.
jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME. It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4) (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)
Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument. So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof. YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS. There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.
You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager. I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there. But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word. Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces. Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears.
And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God. I am secure in my faith and my eternity.
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If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.
You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.
Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.
I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay. But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority". That's a double standard.
Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before. However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings. On that we disagree, as every Christian does. It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.
Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.
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I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.
jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME. It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4) (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)
Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument. So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof. YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS. There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.
You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager. I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there. But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word. Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces. Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears.
And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God. I am secure in my faith and my eternity.
:thumbsup:
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For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.
It's confusing and complicated from a logical perspective. God "tested" us even though he knew we would fail; we failed because we didn't know it was wrong to not listen to god prior to eating the knowledge if right/wrong; now ALL of humanity is cursed because of two people and will burn forever unless they can believe god created a loophole in his wacko plan where he murdered himself to himself just so he could forgive US for the stupid plan HE set in motion...this is pure craziness.
While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest)
Wait, incest is wrong? :o But where did Cain's wife come from? And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?
what has that got to do with God? I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible. Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me. The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.
What it's got to do with god is again, that's the best he could so? Sit back and watch us go about our lives in less-than-ideal ways? And you did imply that it was acceptable - OR AT LEAST EXPECTED - for people to be governed by behaviors like that back then.
And how could there be no lawgiver when you said just before that god was the lawgiver? God was VISIBLE back then and performing magic tricks. He repeatedly gave atrocious orders and commandments in the OT that his people were happy to follow.
You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace.
Yes I did. What can I really say to cult-speak, though? Whatever I say won't get through.
I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.
And luckily, he seems like a smart cookie who has been fortunate enough to escape indoctrination and see reality for what it REALLY is. It's highly unlikely that someone who thinks critically like he does will become a casualty to your fantasy religion.
Remember 502: only one side can be right. Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god. The masses have been wrong many, many times before. The case of religion is no different.
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For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.
It's confusing and complicated from a logical perspective. God "tested" us even though he knew we would fail; we failed because we didn't know it was wrong to not listen to god prior to eating the knowledge if right/wrong; now ALL of humanity is cursed because of two people and will burn forever unless they can believe god created a loophole in his wacko plan where he murdered himself to himself just so he could forgive US for the stupid plan HE set in motion...this is pure craziness.
While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest)
Wait, incest is wrong? :o But where did Cain's wife come from? And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?
what has that got to do with God? I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible. Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me. The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.
What it's got to do with god is again, that's the best he could so? Sit back and watch us go about our lives in less-than-ideal ways? And you did imply that it was acceptable - OR AT LEAST EXPECTED - for people to be governed by behaviors like that back then.
And how could there be no lawgiver when you said just before that god was the lawgiver? God was VISIBLE back then and performing magic tricks. He repeatedly gave atrocious orders and commandments in the OT that his people were happy to follow.
You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace.
Yes I did. What can I really say to cult-speak, though? Whatever I say won't get through.
I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.
And luckily, he seems like a smart cookie who has been fortunate enough to escape indoctrination and see reality for what it REALLY is. It's highly unlikely that someone who thinks critically like he does will become a casualty to your fantasy religion.
Remember 502: only one side can be right. Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god. The masses have been wrong many, many times before. The case of religion is no different.
Your Picking apart words, and then twisting them to seem as if my meaning was two sided. Your taking things out of context word by word.
This debate is moot as all others you try with me. YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD OR THE BIBLE......I DO. I will not argue scripture with you.....period. It's the same arguments you've put to Christians countless of times, and have been answered countless of times, then you come back another way, and ask the same questions that you already got answers for. Sounds like your trying to convince yourself.
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If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.
You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.
Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.
I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay. But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority". That's a double standard.
Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before. However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings. On that we disagree, as every Christian does. It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.
Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.
Please, you are sitting there stating that no Christian has expounded in great detail on what they believe using very strong language on here?! You must be in a different Forum than I am. I find it strange that I can pose things to other Christians on here and they will give answers and views which I am able to read and consider, but when I pose them to you, you only say, "It's your opinion." "I am trying to cause a rift..." or some other non-answer. Are you uncomfortable with what I bring to you or just close-minded enough that you won't even think about any of it, because that is how it comes across. I am not sitting here belittling every little thing said and everything about the Bible. That is handled well by others. I have not referenced superiority with anyone but you because I DO NOT see that coming from others on here, plain and simple. I used the 'superiority' in a general sense in my previous post anyway, but if you take offense to it and need to make excuses for it, maybe you need to look at what is behind THAT and why it bothers you so much.
Looking at the growing number of Christians who are posting now (yes, I know, they all wrote you and said how afraid they were to post before), you have to admit we on the other side are a very small minority so please don't make it sound as if your views are being drowned out - they aren't. I'll also add I have rarely, if ever, seen the Jewish community et all inserting itself into the politics and laws of this country. I certainly cannot say the same for the Christians and the Chritian majority in America most certainly does have an impact on my life and the life of others, whether we are followers or not.
I feel I can state and question freely what I do not believe because I have 25 years OF believing behind me. It's not as if I am coming out of left field with nothing to back me up.
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If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.
You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.
Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.
I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay. But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority". That's a double standard.
Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before. However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings. On that we disagree, as every Christian does. It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.
Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.
Please, you are sitting there stating that no Christian has expounded in great detail on what they believe using very strong language on here?! You must be in a different Forum than I am. I find it strange that I can pose things to other Christians on here and they will give answers and views which I am able to read and consider, but when I pose them to you, you only say, "It's your opinion." "I am trying to cause a rift..." or some other non-answer. Are you uncomfortable with what I bring to you or just close-minded enough that you won't even think about any of it, because that is how it comes across. I am not sitting here belittling every little thing said and everything about the Bible. That is handled well by others. I have not referenced superiority with anyone but you because I DO NOT see that coming from others on here, plain and simple. I used the 'superiority' in a general sense in my previous post anyway, but if you take offense to it and need to make excuses for it, maybe you need to look at what is behind THAT and why it bothers you so much.
Looking at the growing number of Christians who are posting now (yes, I know, they all wrote you and said how afraid they were to post before), you have to admit we on the other side are a very small minority so please don't make it sound as if your views are being drowned out - they aren't. I'll also add I have rarely, if ever, seen the Jewish community et all inserting itself into the politics and laws of this country. I certainly cannot say the same for the Christians and the Chritian majority in America most certainly does have an impact on my life and the life of others, whether we are followers or not.
Since you seem to have a problem with how I post or answer questions, then don't post to me. It's simple to remedy. You ARE entitled to your opinion, as I'M entitled to mine.
As far as Christians having an impact on your life is how Democracy works. You vote your way, and we vote ours. Every cause has it's followers. I won't apologize how I live, and what my life may influence whether it be at the polls or wherever. You have the same rights as I do, to use however you see fit.
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yeah right
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yeah right
Uh....excuse me, what do you mean?
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I feel I can state and question freely what I do not believe because I have 25 years OF believing behind me. It's not as if I am coming out of left field with nothing to back me up.
Really? Great!
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I feel I can state and question freely what I do not believe because I have 25 years OF believing behind me. It's not as if I am coming out of left field with nothing to back me up.
Really? Great!
What's THAT supposed to mean? I'm curious who or what shouti was addressing myself, lol.
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Quote from queenofnines:
Remember 502: only one side can be right. Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god. The masses have been wrong many, many times before. The case of religion is no different.
502: You should do your own delving in the scriptures, as well as other books, or science books, etc. Just because I believe in God (NOT a god,) doesn't mean I have sacrificed my reasoning abilities. Actually, to set the record straight, it is NOT popular to believe in God; quite the contrary. You should have seen enough evidence on these forums alone, without even checking the news, etc. People that believe in God are actually chastized, mocked, and made to look crazy and delusional. It is an ongoing process to always stand up for what we, as Christians, believe. Just make sure you check your own sources, in both areas of what is being discussed, and come to your own heart-felt decision.
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Quote from queenofnines:
Remember 502: only one side can be right. Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god. The masses have been wrong many, many times before. The case of religion is no different.
502: You should do your own delving in the scriptures, as well as other books, or science books, etc. Just because I believe in God (NOT a god,) doesn't mean I have sacrificed my reasoning abilities. Actually, to set the record straight, it is NOT popular to believe in God; quite the contrary. You should have seen enough evidence on these forums alone, without even checking the news, etc. People that believe in God are actually chastized, mocked, and made to look crazy and delusional. It is an ongoing process to always stand up for what we, as Christians, believe. Just make sure you check your own sources, in both areas of what is being discussed, and come to your own heart-felt decision.
Your so much better at explaining "J"!! Talk about a smart cookie, your it :notworthy:
Have a great holiday, I'm off with my friends soon, and need to get ready.....bye
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Your Picking apart words, and then twisting them to seem as if my meaning was two sided. Your taking things out of context word by word.
Mmm-hmm. Sure. A pocketful of excuses to avoid admitting you got logically pwnd.
P.S. It's "you're" not "your". I've kept quiet about that long enough!
Actually, to set the record straight, it is NOT popular to believe in God; quite the contrary.
Don't play the victim card. World population breakdown: 80% believe in god(s) and/or follow a religion, 20% are atheist/agnostic/non-religious. America population breakdown: 72% Christian, 16% atheist/agnostic. While there are many in your camp who will say they believe in god when pressed but don't go to church or anything ("mushy Christians")...they believe in god nonetheless.
People that believe in God are actually chastized, mocked, and made to look crazy and delusional.
There's love in the criticism, really. We're trying to get you to see through the lies, and sometimes that involves mockery/scolding. The crazy and delusional thing can be seen by anyone who critically examines Christian dogma. Also, most religions do not deserve respect. They tamper with the world, spread primitive fantasy, and rob people of their minds and lives.
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P.S. It's "you're" not "your". I've kept quiet about that long enough!
This will undoubtedbly sound 'picky', but thank you, queen! ;) That has been driving me crazy too, especially since Annella is not ignorant or illiterate - compliment there, Annella, nothing more nothing less.
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Quote from: jcribb16
Actually, to set the record straight, it is NOT popular to believe in God; quite the contrary.
Quote from: queenofnines:
Don't play the victim card. World population breakdown: 80% believe in god(s) and/or follow a religion, 20% are atheist/agnostic/non-religious. America population breakdown: 72% Christian, 16% atheist/agnostic. While there are many in your camp who will say they believe in god when pressed but don't go to church or anything ("mushy Christians")...they believe in god nonetheless.
I am not playing the victim card, here. You cannot back up this with those statistics that show just an overall connection to religious/non-religious choices. You have to see what's going on under the surface. They took prayer out of schools. Many want God removed from all aspects of life here in the U.S. - money, buildings, courtrooms, taking Christ out of Christmas (Xmas,) etc. We are hearing about more of people being put in jail or fined because of having a Bible study in their own homes with other people because others in that area don't agree with it going on (what has happened to the "freedom" in that?). Pastors are being sued because their church by-laws don't cover every little thing that may come up (such as a member disagreeing with the pastor on divorce, homosexuality, etc. because it "points" the finger at them, so they sue. And guess what, the pastor loses his case for preaching what's in the Bible.) And please, don't jump on me about divorce, homosexuality, etc., I am just writing some of the things that are going on, not pushing certain views.
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Quote from jcribb:
People that believe in God are actually chastized, mocked, and made to look crazy and delusional.
Quote from queenofnines:
There's love in the criticism, really. We're trying to get you to see through the lies, and sometimes that involves mockery/scolding. The crazy and delusional thing can be seen by anyone who critically examines Christian dogma. Also, most religions do not deserve respect. They tamper with the world, spread primitive fantasy, and rob people of their minds and lives.
Please forgive me, qon, but I have definitely not felt the "love" coming from you in these past few debates. I've felt anything but, especially when my view is totally ignored and put down - even your quote right here. You are trying to get me to admit God is a lie and that I cannot do. There are 2 things, in particular, in my own personal life, that have happened to me (or family member) that have no other explanation of it happening other than that of God.
Yes, there are different sects of religion that do not deserve respect. I wouldn't support one like that. I am not delusional or crazy for believing in Christ. I do not call you delusional for being an atheist, either.
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I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.
jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME. It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4) (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)
Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument. So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof. YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS. There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.
Believing in God makes me a better person.
Your are right, Marie, He does. :thumbsup:
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Quote from queenofnines:
Remember 502: only one side can be right. Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god. The masses have been wrong many, many times before. The case of religion is no different.
502: You should do your own delving in the scriptures, as well as other books, or science books, etc. Just because I believe in God (NOT a god,) doesn't mean I have sacrificed my reasoning abilities. Actually, to set the record straight, it is NOT popular to believe in God; quite the contrary. You should have seen enough evidence on these forums alone, without even checking the news, etc. People that believe in God are actually chastized, mocked, and made to look crazy and delusional. It is an ongoing process to always stand up for what we, as Christians, believe. Just make sure you check your own sources, in both areas of what is being discussed, and come to your own heart-felt decision.
Your so much better at explaining "J"!! Talk about a smart cookie, your it :notworthy:
Have a great holiday, I'm off with my friends soon, and need to get ready.....bye
Thanks, Annella! You have a great holiday, too! We'll "see" you Tuesday, when you get back! :wave:
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@jcribb,
I am curious about this part of your post:
We are hearing about more of people being put in jail or fined because of having a Bible study in their own homes with other people because others in that area don't agree with it going on (what has happened to the "freedom" in that?).
Are you referring to that happening in the U.S.? I did a search on it and came up with nothing about it, so that is why I am asking. I don't believe, according to law, that anyone can be arrested here for doing that in their own homes. Do you have any examples because that cannot possibly be legal if it is in fact happening. I need to go get some sleep, so will look for a reply later on if you put one up. Thanks.
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They took prayer out of schools.
C'mon jcribb...you know why they did that. It's not right to force kids of different religions (or no religion) to pray.
Many want God removed from all aspects of life here in the U.S. - money, buildings, courtrooms, taking Christ out of Christmas (Xmas,) etc.
Money: "god" was only added due to the red scare. Put yourself in the shoes of people who subscribe to more than one god, or a different god, or no god. Do you think we appreciate having the government play favorites and/or speak for us? You sure wouldn't like it if the Muslims took over and it said "In Allah We Trust", now would you?
Buildings/courtrooms: The government is not supposed to endorse any specific religion (or any religion at all). PERIOD. Be glad to live in a country of religious freedom, but don't try to force your god on everyone else.
Christmas: Christians don't "own" Christmas (just like they don't own the U.S. dollar, monuments, or courtroom procedures). We all know it was stolen from the pagans, come on now. It is a SECULAR holiday. People can enjoy it any way they wish, or not at all.
The way you so casually expect Christian dominance in a secular country is exactly what I'm against. Why can't you keep the god thing within the confines of your church and home, and not in society AT ALL? Is it because you fear god will burn you in hell forever if you're not making an active effort to get more converts/turn this into a Christian world by force?
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There are 2 things, in particular, in my own personal life, that have happened to me (or family member) that have no other explanation of it happening other than that of God.
Okay, what are they?
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There are 2 things, in particular, in my own personal life, that have happened to me (or family member) that have no other explanation of it happening other than that of God.
Okay, what are they?
Those are too personal to be put on this forum, especially with people that deny God, and put down my beliefs. I don't care to be mocked. But there were family members who were there and know themselves about the miracles and happenings that come from God. Even an unbeliever who afterwards accepted Christ when one event happened.
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You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager. I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there. But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word. Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces. Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears. And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God. I am secure in my faith and my eternity.
what if you get to the gates of heaven and it's not the chrisian god? what if it's allah, buddah, or jehovah? then what? Evenif ther is a god, how do you knw YOUR god is the right one?
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Wait, incest is wrong? But where did Cain's wife come from? And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?
If you read the bible, after Cain killed Abel, God put a mark on Cain (some scholers say it was black skin) so that no other people would kill him, right! There is your clue, that there were other people in the world.
if you believe in adam and eve, then you KNOW that two people produced all of us today. unless god created more people from dust (which to my knowledge, he didn't in the bible), there HAD to be some incest
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For God to stop all the wrong in the world he would have to take away peoples ability to make a choice...now I don't know how Heaven will work, because I am sure people will still have a choice. So I don't know what God will do to prevent people from being less than perfect, or maybe that's it, when you go to heaven, God makes you perfect.
So God would have to make us perfect for us to make perfect choices on Earth. God doesn't want to do everything for you, he doesn't want to make your decisions, he didn't create life to be puppets on a string that he controls.
If you still have choice in heaven and it's perfect why not here? I'm sure all those starving kids in korea could adjust to not having the choice to starve. Its obvious he dosen't want to do anything for anybody.
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You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager. I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there. But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word. Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces. Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears. And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God. I am secure in my faith and my eternity.
what if you get to the gates of heaven and it's not the chrisian god? what if it's allah, buddah, or jehovah? then what? Evenif ther is a god, how do you knw YOUR god is the right one?
I know that I know, and until someone can prove to me otherwise, then that's my choice of belief.
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Wait, incest is wrong? But where did Cain's wife come from? And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?
If you read the bible, after Cain killed Abel, God put a mark on Cain (some scholers say it was black skin) so that no other people would kill him, right! There is your clue, that there were other people in the world.
if you believe in adam and eve, then you KNOW that two people produced all of us today. unless god created more people from dust (which to my knowledge, he didn't in the bible), there HAD to be some incest
You are absolutely right. But how else was the human race to continue? It's very true, it may have contributed to genetic problems, races or color variations, etc. of today. I sure wouldn't have married my "cousin" in today's world, but in the Old Testament, things were done much differently than in the New Testament and today. I have many questions that one day in eternity will be answered.
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For God to stop all the wrong in the world he would have to take away peoples ability to make a choice...now I don't know how Heaven will work, because I am sure people will still have a choice. So I don't know what God will do to prevent people from being less than perfect, or maybe that's it, when you go to heaven, God makes you perfect.
So God would have to make us perfect for us to make perfect choices on Earth. God doesn't want to do everything for you, he doesn't want to make your decisions, he didn't create life to be puppets on a string that he controls.
If you still have choice in heaven and it's perfect why not here? I'm sure all those starving kids in korea could adjust to not having the choice to starve. Its obvious he dosen't want to do anything for anybody.
So then quit talking about it and do something! Quit waiting for God to get involved and change things and get off your butt and do something if it bothers you so much.
That about sums it up pretty well! Maybe you could be the one to change things over there (502).
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I know that I know, and until someone can prove to me otherwise, then that's my choice of belief.
More like willful ignorance. You're only a Christian because of circumstance of birth, sorry. You'd be Muslim if you were born in the Middle East.
I sure wouldn't have married my "cousin" in today's world, but in the Old Testament, things were done much differently than in the New Testament and today. I have many questions that one day in eternity will be answered.
Sooo we all came from Noah's family, right? Who all came from just two people, Adam and Eve. I don't see how we've escaped incest at all, unless god created a separate group of people and forgot to mention it in the Bible. Even then...how could one be sure their mate was one of the "new" people, or their sister? They didn't know about DNA back then!
So your hubby IS your cousin literally, if you believe the Bible.
What are some of your questions?
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That about sums it up pretty well! Maybe you could be the one to change things over there (502).
One day i will change a lot in this world. but right now, i don't have the money, power, or influence to do so. even the u.s. army can't negotiate with these people, i am just now about to start college, what CAN i do at this point? donate to a charity and line some greedy *bleep*'s pockets? But one day i WILL be able to make a difference.
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Quote from queenofnines:
Christmas: Christians don't "own" Christmas (just like they don't own the U.S. dollar, monuments, or courtroom procedures). We all know it was stolen from the pagans, come on now. It is a SECULAR holiday. People can enjoy it any way they wish, or not at all.
The way you so casually expect Christian dominance in a secular country is exactly what I'm against. Why can't you keep the god thing within the confines of your church and home, and not in society AT ALL? Is it because you fear god will burn you in hell forever if you're not making an active effort to get more converts/turn this into a Christian world by force?
Regarding Christmas: It was not "stolen" from pagans - you need to study the full history behind this. This also helps to sum up reasons for it being accepted as the day that it is:
"For many centuries, Christian writers accepted that Christmas was the actual date on which Jesus was born.[16] In the early 18th century, scholars began proposing alternative explanations. Isaac Newton argued that the date of Christmas was selected to correspond with the winter solstice,[10] which the Romans called bruma and celebrated on December 25.[17] In 1743, German Protestant Paul Ernst Jablonski argued Christmas was placed on December 25 to correspond with the Roman solar holiday Dies Natalis Solis Invicti and was therefore a "paganization" that debased the true church.[11] According to Judeo-Christian tradition, creation as described in the Genesis creation narrative occurred on the date of the spring equinox, i.e. March 25 on the Roman calendar. This date is now celebrated as Annunciation and as the anniversary of Incarnation.[18] In 1889, Louis Duchesne suggested that the date of Christmas was calculated as nine months after Annunciation, the traditional date of the conception of Jesus.[19]
The December 25 date may have been selected by the church in Rome in the early 4th century. At this time, a church calendar was created and other holidays were also placed on solar dates: "It is cosmic symbolism...which inspired the Church leadership in Rome to elect the winter solstice, December 25, as the birthday of Christ, and the summer solstice as that of John the Baptist, supplemented by the equinoxes as their respective dates of conception. While they were aware that pagans called this day the 'birthday' of Sol Invictus, this did not concern them and it did not play any role in their choice of date for Christmas," according to modern scholar S.E. Hijmans.[20]" Courtesy of Wikipedia and
S.E. Hijmans, Sol, the sun in the art and religions of Rome, 2009.
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quote from queenofnines:
Buildings/courtrooms: The government is not supposed to endorse any specific religion (or any religion at all). PERIOD. Be glad to live in a country of religious freedom, but don't try to force your god on everyone else.
May I remind you I am not "forcing" my God on everyone else. You are trying to "force" me to denounce God, which I won't do.
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Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 05:25:41 pm
I know that I know, and until someone can prove to me otherwise, then that's my choice of belief.
Quote from queenofnines:
More like willful ignorance. You're only a Christian because of circumstance of birth, sorry. You'd be Muslim if you were born in the Middle East.
Perhaps that is so. But there are many Muslims who have accepted Christ, so you cannot close that door on me.
Also, I may have been born here, but I was born into a family where my dad forbid me to go to church. He promised my mom she could continue even after their marriage (she was Baptist, and his father was a Canon in the Episcopal Church.) But after marriage, he forbade her to go; then me. However, when we would stay with my grandparents, we had to attend my grandfather's church; my father had to, too.
Through it all, I reached a point in my life when I did make the choice to accept Christ. I was slapped by my dad for this when he was told. The slapping wasn't new, though. I could have easily have followed in those ways of meanness, but God had His hand on me, and I came through and with God's help and friends and family encouraging me, I achieved the victory over that situation.
In the end, my dad did accept Christ himself, asked my mom and I for forgiveness, as well as countless others he used to hate and argue with. They could not believe he was the same man. The point is, my circumstance of birth has nothing to do with my decision for Christ.
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I know that I know, and until someone can prove to me otherwise, then that's my choice of belief.
More like willful ignorance. You're only a Christian because of circumstance of birth, sorry. You'd be Muslim if you were born in the Middle East.
I sure wouldn't have married my "cousin" in today's world, but in the Old Testament, things were done much differently than in the New Testament and today. I have many questions that one day in eternity will be answered.
Sooo we all came from Noah's family, right? Who all came from just two people, Adam and Eve. I don't see how we've escaped incest at all, unless god created a separate group of people and forgot to mention it in the Bible. Even then...how could one be sure their mate was one of the "new" people, or their sister? They didn't know about DNA back then!
So your hubby IS your cousin literally, if you believe the Bible.
What are some of your questions?
I think we are also incest if we go by evolution as well.
Bingo, Marie!!!!!!
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There are 2 things, in particular, in my own personal life, that have happened to me (or family member) that have no other explanation of it happening other than that of God.
Okay, what are they?
Those are too personal to be put on this forum, especially with people that deny God, and put down my beliefs. I don't care to be mocked. But there were family members who were there and know themselves about the miracles and happenings that come from God. Even an unbeliever who afterwards accepted Christ when one event happened.
We're back home for a bit before dinner, and thought I would check in and see what was up.
Jcribb, you don't have to share your personal blessings and miracles with her at all. It would not be appreciated, and would be mocked. Those are our "jewels" to keep as they are directly given to us by God. I have determined to not share anything else on here like I have before. It's to precious. Keep it close to yourself.
qon, nobody is pushing any religion on you or anyone else on here. You say the same things over and over again. You may vary a word here or there, but the accusations to Christians are the same over and over. Don't you know anything else? Then we keep denying it over and over. If you don't believe it....well...too bad!
As far as the incest question goes. I've studied it before, but can't come up with a true Bible depiction of what actually took place. Some Scholars believe that God made more people. The Bible doesn't actually say that, but there are a lot of things that aren't "spelled out" in the Word. Some we can study out, and get the understanding, and some are mysteries that we accept by Faith. As far as the Ark? There were 4 couples. Noah and his wife, their 3 sons and their wives.
It wouldn't matter what we tell you, you won't believe it. You only want to stir up strife. Go and spread your discontent to someone who actually wants to hear it. If you were a Christian before, and then denounced it, I have no desire to hear anything you have to say. We won't denounce our God as you did, so give it up. Quit browbeating people who believe in God. Especially my family in the LORD.
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That about sums it up pretty well! Maybe you could be the one to change things over there (502).
One day i will change a lot in this world. but right now, i don't have the money, power, or influence to do so. even the u.s. army can't negotiate with these people, i am just now about to start college, what CAN i do at this point? donate to a charity and line some greedy *bleep*'s pockets? But one day i WILL be able to make a difference.
That's the point. There are a lot of people who want to help, but don't have the monetary resources or know-how to do it. There are many organizations that are helping a lot of the people you are speaking of, but there are still a lot of them that unfortunately still live in areas that are behind the times and it takes a long time to build that up. Also, there are some groups of people that want handouts and don't want to work for the help - of course that makes it hard because they need to be willing to help themselves as well. There's much that is being done in other countries with help from us, the U.K., etc., but we have to help our ownselves, too.
Maybe one day, we will see your name in one of the organizations that helps a country to survive - that would be the best thing for them!! I could say "Hey, I knew this person before they even started college!!!" I hope you maintain that enthusiasm!!!
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jcribb, i will never lose ethusiasm...
but on subject, i'd like to ask a serious question and hope it will be answered open-mindedly -
if god has done all of these miracles for you who claim so, personally, then why dosen't he do any miracles for people who are starving and dying at no fault of their own? rememer, the homeless of our coutry live like kings compared to them......
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In my post regarding generations to sin, please read Exodus 20:5 -6 (the 10 Commandments). It talks about punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the 3rd and 4th generations of those who hate God, but showing love to a thousand generations to those who love the Lord and keep His commandments. It is true we all fall short daily regarding sin, but we have to believe, have faith and pray daily for those sins that we may commit. As for Paul, he started out persecuting Christians, but then a personal encounter with Jesus changed his life. He spent time in prison for his believes but continued to wrote letters to various churches to strengthen their believes in Jesus. Queenofnines, you are really taking the Bible out of contest and only seeing what you want to see and not the truth that is in the Bible. I will be praying for you and anything negative that you say only makes my faith and believe and hope in God that much stronger.
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In my post regarding generations to sin, please read Exodus 20:5 -6 (the 10 Commandments). It talks about punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the 3rd and 4th generations of those who hate God, but showing love to a thousand generations to those who love the Lord and keep His commandments. It is true we all fall short daily regarding sin, but we have to believe, have faith and pray daily for those sins that we may commit. As for Paul, he started out persecuting Christians, but then a personal encounter with Jesus changed his life. He spent time in prison for his believes but continued to wrote letters to various churches to strengthen their believes in Jesus. Queenofnines, you are really taking the Bible out of contest and only seeing what you want to see and not the truth that is in the Bible. I will be praying for you and anything negative that you say only makes my faith and believe and hope in God that much stronger.
Ladysurvivor, qon does not believe the Bible, she's an atheist. I've given the same answer as you did above earlier in this thread.
Your right about one thing though, and it's good to be reminded of it. It DOES make me resolute in my Faith, and know one day I'll stand before the Throne, and EVERY knee shall bow, and EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord!!!
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jcribb, i will never lose ethusiasm...
but on subject, i'd like to ask a serious question and hope it will be answered open-mindedly -
if god has done all of these miracles for you who claim so, personally, then why dosen't he do any miracles for people who are starving and dying at no fault of their own? rememer, the homeless of our coutry live like kings compared to them......
Do they believe in God? Are they open to God?
Some do, some don't. should it really matter? what kind of god would allow brainwashed children to suffer because they never learned about god?
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@jcribb,
I am curious about this part of your post:
We are hearing about more of people being put in jail or fined because of having a Bible study in their own homes with other people because others in that area don't agree with it going on (what has happened to the "freedom" in that?).
Are you referring to that happening in the U.S.? I did a search on it and came up with nothing about it, so that is why I am asking. I don't believe, according to law, that anyone can be arrested here for doing that in their own homes. Do you have any examples because that cannot possibly be legal if it is in fact happening. I need to go get some sleep, so will look for a reply later on if you put one up. Thanks.
Some of these things that happen are in the "Pastors'" News Magazines they receive. I do know a couple made it in local papers, and I will check with my pastor and see if he can re-locate them for me.
One event took place in California. Apparently a particular town or county had been able to pass a law that Christians could not have church meetings in their homes. In this case, a pastor had a few friends from church over for a get-together and had a Bible devotion with them. Because of the amount of cars parked in the neighborhood, a neighbor found out about the get-together and because they had a Bible devotion, the neighbor sued them for having church in their home. The pastor was fined and was going to have to stay in jail if he couldn't pay the fine. The odd thing is, the same neighbors in that area have their own game parties, cookouts, etc., and expect the pastor/neighbors to overlook all the cars parked in the neighborhood.
Another event took place in northern GA. The pastor preaches God's Word straight from the Bible. On this day, he touched on the area of divorce and of committing adultery. It just so happened that this woman member was involved in a situation like this sermon was talking about (in general, though, not directed toward anyone in general; especially regarding the elders and their families in the church/es.) She sued the pastor for preaching something like that. She said it wasn't covered in the church by-laws that he could preach anything this specific. Well, since the church by-laws didn't cover anything like that, the judge ruled against the pastor. It caused a great rift in the church and the pastor had to leave the church. Church by-laws have never been or had reason to be that specific. Yes, he preached from God's Word, but this woman made it such a problem that the by-laws had to be changed to include every type of sin that the Bible mentions so the new pastor would have himself covered.
The original pastor and some ex-members were eventually invited to go to another church in another town.
I will (given time) try and find these to show you, as well as a couple of more things that have happened also.
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In my post regarding generations to sin, please read Exodus 20:5 -6 (the 10 Commandments). It talks about punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the 3rd and 4th generations of those who hate God, but showing love to a thousand generations to those who love the Lord and keep His commandments. It is true we all fall short daily regarding sin, but we have to believe, have faith and pray daily for those sins that we may commit. As for Paul, he started out persecuting Christians, but then a personal encounter with Jesus changed his life. He spent time in prison for his believes but continued to wrote letters to various churches to strengthen their believes in Jesus. Queenofnines, you are really taking the Bible out of contest and only seeing what you want to see and not the truth that is in the Bible. I will be praying for you and anything negative that you say only makes my faith and believe and hope in God that much stronger.
I really like what you have said here.
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. Queenofnines, you are really taking the Bible out of contest and only seeing what you want to see and not the truth that is in the Bible. I will be praying for you and anything negative that you say only makes my faith and believe and hope in God that much stronger.
how about instead of praying for people to believe in god, you pray for starving children all over the world, and people in poverty, or kids in china that are forced to work at unreasonable ages? i prayer works, why dosen't it work for them? also, if jesus exists he should appear for you. in the bible he reappears several times for hundreds of people. if we really are going to burn in hell if we don't believe, couldn't he be a lttle more convincing?
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I have been homeless, I have had addictions that nearly destroyed me, I have felt despair and hopelessness, I have felt shame and guilt......and all of those things were allowed for a purpose. I look back on those times and each of those periods of darkness brought me to another point in my life and it all brought me to where I am now. I didn't deserve a lot of things that happened to me, I was innocent when I was raped...but I wouldn't ask to go back and change anything.
There is suffering in the world because of sin but because God sees the future purpose for that individual life, He allows it for a time. Every persons life will touch another persons life and there is a reason God does what He does. Could I have guessed his reason and purpose while I was in the darkness?? No, I couldn't fathom that what I went through would propel me to the next event in my life. I know there are many people whose purpose it is to be missionaries and beacons of hope to impoverished people. People who love God, that have a burden to help those who have nothing, and show them God's love through their servants heart.
The vast majority of outreach projects to the hurting, neglected, dying, starving people are Christian organizations. There is a reason for that. You cannot discern light from darkness without having seen both. God allows suffering (darkness) so He (light) can be wholly embraced.
And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. Romans 5:2-4
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jcribb, i will never lose ethusiasm...
but on subject, i'd like to ask a serious question and hope it will be answered open-mindedly -
if god has done all of these miracles for you who claim so, personally, then why dosen't he do any miracles for people who are starving and dying at no fault of their own? rememer, the homeless of our coutry live like kings compared to them......
Do they believe in God? Are they open to God?
Some do, some don't. should it really matter? what kind of god would allow brainwashed children to suffer because they never learned about god?
Your question makes no valid sense. Your taking a point and "picking" at it. I'll ask you again what I did before. Do you even believe in the Bible? You basically told me (in so many words) that you did not. What can we say over and over again to make you believe or "see' what we are saying to you? You asked me the same question 3 times earlier, and I gave you long postings about it, and you would turn around and ask the same question again. Your not "hearing" the answers, or you don't like what answers your getting, so you ask the same question again. The answer is not going to change.
We live in a sinful world, and sin brings its own suffering. God is a just God, and would not send an innocent child to punishment if they never heard about Him. Also, God knows the hearts of men, and can discern the very intents of our hearts. He knows who will serve Him (given the chance), and who will not.
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jcribb, i will never lose ethusiasm...
but on subject, i'd like to ask a serious question and hope it will be answered open-mindedly -
if god has done all of these miracles for you who claim so, personally, then why dosen't he do any miracles for people who are starving and dying at no fault of their own? rememer, the homeless of our coutry live like kings compared to them......
502, there are so many things that are done (perhaps miracles, as well) that we never hear about. I do know so many are being helped, but there are just as many still needing help. It never stops. One reason, I know, is that God never promised that life would be perfect. There are always going to be trials and tribulations people (Christians, non-christians, adults, children, races, cultures, etc.) will go through. We may not understand why some people have food, clothes, homes, etc. while others have nothing.
Personally, I have a hard time understanding why some people in government are allowed to use our tax money for their personal jets, activities, etc., while some of the rest of us normal citizens are having a hard time with finances. And this new Obamacare Health Plan is going to make things absolutely worse for a lot of us. I don't know where I'm going to come up with extra to pay for Health Insurance if my hubby's company decides not to cover insurance this next year, because they would rather pay the penalty on each person because it is thousands of dollars less for them to pay out then. That is wrong and greedy. I ask you, how can I help others when I'm trying to survive for myself and my own family?
However, there are still others here in the U.S. and other countries worse off than us. Some do get help and some do what they can to survive. Ladysurvivor also mentioned in her post about different generations suffering for the actions of another. I don't understand the reasoning either with that, except it is Biblical, and God is in control, but would hope that eventually things will turn around.
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I have been homeless, I have had addictions that nearly destroyed me, I have felt despair and hopelessness, I have felt shame and guilt......and all of those things were allowed for a purpose. I look back on those times and each of those periods of darkness brought me to another point in my life and it all brought me to where I am now. I didn't deserve a lot of things that happened to me, I was innocent when I was raped...but I wouldn't ask to go back and change anything.
There is suffering in the world because of sin but because God sees the future purpose for that individual life, He allows it for a time. Every persons life will touch another persons life and there is a reason God does what He does. Could I have guessed his reason and purpose while I was in the darkness?? No, I couldn't fathom that what I went through would propel me to the next event in my life. I know there are many people whose purpose it is to be missionaries and beacons of hope to impoverished people. People who love God, that have a burden to help those who have nothing, and show them God's love through their servants heart.
The vast majority of outreach projects to the hurting, neglected, dying, starving people are Christian organizations. There is a reason for that. You cannot discern light from darkness without having seen both. God allows suffering (darkness) so He (light) can be wholly embraced.
And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. Romans 5:2-4
That is really inspiring, sherna! :thumbsup:
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I have been homeless, I have had addictions that nearly destroyed me, I have felt despair and hopelessness, I have felt shame and guilt......and all of those things were allowed for a purpose. I look back on those times and each of those periods of darkness brought me to another point in my life and it all brought me to where I am now. I didn't deserve a lot of things that happened to me, I was innocent when I was raped...but I wouldn't ask to go back and change anything.
There is suffering in the world because of sin but because God sees the future purpose for that individual life, He allows it for a time. Every persons life will touch another persons life and there is a reason God does what He does. Could I have guessed his reason and purpose while I was in the darkness?? No, I couldn't fathom that what I went through would propel me to the next event in my life. I know there are many people whose purpose it is to be missionaries and beacons of hope to impoverished people. People who love God, that have a burden to help those who have nothing, and show them God's love through their servants heart.
The vast majority of outreach projects to the hurting, neglected, dying, starving people are Christian organizations. There is a reason for that. You cannot discern light from darkness without having seen both. God allows suffering (darkness) so He (light) can be wholly embraced.
And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. Romans 5:2-4
Good Sherene......I'll be back after dinner.
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if we really are going to burn in hell if we don't believe, couldn't he be a lttle more convincing?
Even people in the bible who witnessed the miracles Jesus performed tried to rationalize it away or accuse him of being of the devil.....he told Thomas he was blessed because he saw him...but he added, blessed are they who HAVE NOT seen and yet believe. Believing in Him requires faith, He has given us plenty of things in this world to have more than enough faith. Denying God is just that...denial, not accepting truth but denying it.
People who really want to know if God is there and that Jesus died for them, all you have to do is (for one moment) put aside your notions of what is fact in your mind and ask Him to reveal Himself. This doesn't mean you will have an apparition of Christ in the middle of your living room. It is much more than that.
Many people are too prideful and maybe even scared to do this. Believing in God means you have to take responsibility to live the way He told us to, and many people would prefer God not tell them how to live. So they just rationalize that He doesn't exist.
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Your question makes no valid sense. Your taking a point and "picking" at it. I'll ask you again what I did before. Do you even believe in the Bible? You basically told me (in so many words) that you did not. What can we say over and over again to make you believe or "see' what we are saying to you? You asked me the same question 3 times earlier, and I gave you long postings about it, and you would turn around and ask the same question again. Your not "hearing" the answers, or you don't like what answers your getting, so you ask the same question again. The answer is not going to change. We live in a sinful world, and sin brings its own suffering. God is a just God, and would not send an innocent child to punishment if they never heard about Him. Also, God knows the hearts of men, and can discern the very intents of our hearts. He knows who will serve Him (given the chance), and who will not.
first, he IS allowing innocent children who have never heard of him to suffer. so many starving african kids have never heard of god. also, if god is so just, why not give everyone equal oportunity. ad don't say "he/she/it does" because a kid in korea will never have the same education or even medical attention as an american child.
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Your question makes no valid sense. Your taking a point and "picking" at it. I'll ask you again what I did before. Do you even believe in the Bible? You basically told me (in so many words) that you did not. What can we say over and over again to make you believe or "see' what we are saying to you? You asked me the same question 3 times earlier, and I gave you long postings about it, and you would turn around and ask the same question again. Your not "hearing" the answers, or you don't like what answers your getting, so you ask the same question again. The answer is not going to change. We live in a sinful world, and sin brings its own suffering. God is a just God, and would not send an innocent child to punishment if they never heard about Him. Also, God knows the hearts of men, and can discern the very intents of our hearts. He knows who will serve Him (given the chance), and who will not.
first, he IS allowing innocent children who have never heard of him to suffer. so many starving african kids have never heard of god. also, if god is so just, why not give everyone equal oportunity. ad don't say "he/she/it does" because a kid in korea will never have the same education or even medical attention as an american child.
502, you are not "listening" to these posts being offered to you. It doesn't matter, either, whether these children, adults, etc., know God or not. It's the plight that they are in and going through. And Sherene told you (and me, and Annella) about Christian orgs., and other groups who try and help all they can. As for the child labor laws in China, I don't like them either, but are you willing to go up against the Chinese government? PLEASE READ THE POSTS!
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if we really are going to burn in hell if we don't believe, couldn't he be a lttle more convincing?
Even people in the bible who witnessed the miracles Jesus performed tried to rationalize it away or accuse him of being of the devil.....
How do we know jesus wasn't an illusionist? criss angel (mindfreak) is a hell of an illusionist. he even walked on water.
to anella, all you've done is tried to rationalize slavery and mass genocide in the bible, thinking "it has to make sense" or "there's no way it can be false". the bible was obviously written by flawed men. you even compared SLAVES that could be BEATEN to paid workers of today.
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if we really are going to burn in hell if we don't believe, couldn't he be a lttle more convincing?
Even people in the bible who witnessed the miracles Jesus performed tried to rationalize it away or accuse him of being of the devil.....he told Thomas he was blessed because he saw him...but he added, blessed are they who HAVE NOT seen and yet believe. Believing in Him requires faith, He has given us plenty of things in this world to have more than enough faith. Denying God is just that...denial, not accepting truth but denying it.
People who really want to know if God is there and that Jesus died for them, all you have to do is (for one moment) put aside your notions of what is fact in your mind and ask Him to reveal Himself. This doesn't mean you will have an apparition of Christ in the middle of your living room. It is much more than that.
Many people are too prideful and maybe even scared to do this. Believing in God means you have to take responsibility to live the way He told us to, and many people would prefer God not tell them how to live. So they just rationalize that He doesn't exist.
OK.....back Hot dogs were yummm... Sherna gave an excellent post. BTW, where have you been girlfriend!? Not that I've been on that much. I think I've posted more today than I have in a week.
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I have a perfect comparison for christain brainwashing:
North korea's ruler is a dictator, he runs everything. the people can't leave, no one can come in. people are put in masses into concentration camps. the people are starving and lacking medical care. despite the problems brought upon them by their ruler, they all "love" and praise him. they even have pictures of him in their homes. they all have a way to rationalize it. the same way christains rationalize all of the world's problems and "just have faith".
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if we really are going to burn in hell if we don't believe, couldn't he be a lttle more convincing?
Even people in the bible who witnessed the miracles Jesus performed tried to rationalize it away or accuse him of being of the devil.....
How do we know jesus wasn't an illusionist? criss angel (mindfreak) is a hell of an illusionist. he even walked on water.
to anella, all you've done is tried to rationalize slavery and mass genocide in the bible, thinking "it has to make sense" or "there's no way it can be false". the bible was obviously written by flawed men. you even compared SLAVES that could be BEATEN to paid workers of today.
Nope, never said anything about slaves being "beaten". Your getting my posts mixed up with qon's. She came in the middle of my posts, and started asking me about incest and the Ark, etc. Go back and actually READ what I wrote! Be careful accusing someone of something they wrote, when they did not write it....not good!
You didn't understand the different dispensations I explained to you, about the OT being types and shadows and fulfillment of the NT from OT prophecy? You couldn't have read my post, because your picking and choosing what you want believe, and not taking everything I wrote down.
The problem is you want quick satisfying answers from us without actually believing anything we tell you, or believing the Bible. We can't change things to suit you because you don't like the answers. You seem to be hung up on Old Testament details, and want to find fault with God, and want us to admit that there is fault with God. That won't happen. Your seeking answers not because you want to know, your like a child crying why? why? why? Then when we tell you why, or give you a condensed answer (without a weeks Bible Study), you turn right around and ask it again.
Your questions lead to contention, and that's not something I will deal with. I won't "argue" the Word of God with you, when you don't even believe it.
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How do we know jesus wasn't an illusionist? criss angel (mindfreak) is a hell of an illusionist. he even walked on water.
I would imagine that they did not have the resources to be such an incredible illusionist back in biblical times, but none the less maybe you should ask my ex husband who was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and lived with it for most of his childhood and after he was prayed for, the doctor's said they must have "misdiagnosed him" because he didn't have it anymore.
Maybe you should ask my sister who fell into a fire pit with 3 feet of flames shooting out and came out with not even singed hair.
Maybe you should ask my dad who told God one day that if Jesus was His son, he would give him $100 in the next hour....in the next hour a woman got in his cab and handed him $100 and said God told her to give it to him.
Or maybe you should ask my cousin who had a disfiguring and painful curve in her spine, forcing her to wear a body brace and her only hope was surgery, until she was prayed for and her spine is straight as mine.
Or maybe you could ask me about how I prayed someone would sell us a vehicle for $1 and months later someone did. Or how I had a botched tubal ligation that left me with literally no tubes and I got pregnant....maybe you could ask my doctor why she said only God could have made my pregnancy happen, after what my surgery did to my body.
Maybe you could ask if all those things were illusions?
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marie, you honestly don't think i've tried? you know what i heard when i asked? crickets chirping. i asked you uys because i know you will speak to me non-telepathically. i never said i didn't believe in god. just not the christian/biblegod
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Sherna gave an excellent post. BTW, where have you been girlfriend!?
I was preparing to facilitate at a retreat for my church this weekend. I was headed for spiritual battle so I decided to take a break from the forum so I could focus on the people I would be serving...a lot of administrative things go into it as well so I was pretty busy getting ready for all that. But I'm back! :D
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God, but just not from the Bible God? Then what god do you want to hear from?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but your not making sense. Actually, if you sincerely asked the Bible God to reveal himself to you (as to His existence), He will. Make it something that is personal to you, and only you. Don't tell us. Something that would speak personally to your heart from God.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
I don't really think it would. You see, I have just listed things that happened to people I know and including myself. Now either you think I'm lying or I'm crazy or you wouldn't ask for documented proof. I suppose I could go to my doctor and ask her for my charts and surgery info, I could probably even ask her to write a letter for me....but God is not proven to an individual with miracles. Never in the bible was someone brought to believe by the act of a miracle. They already came to Him with faith to be healed, or their friends and loved ones brought them to Him for healing and their faith is what healed the person. The miracle of my pregnancy was for my spiritual walk...maybe even my doctor's.
I wonder what the soldier thought who had his ear cut off by Peter and Jesus healed it right then and there?? I wonder if he thought that was an illusion?? Well whatever he thought, he certainly didn't stand up and say that Jesus shouldn't be crucified. I guess even having his own sliced off ear healed wasn't enough proof for him!
And if you are expecting some booming voice from heaven to answer your questions well....it will likely never happen...God works through His people and through His Spirit. Maybe God's answer to your prayer is the Christians in this forum answering your questions.
the rest an be classified as coincidence
the term coincidence is a denial of God
to the believer there is no such thing
until you get a hold of that, nothing will convince you despite what you say about undeniable proof
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shern, that soldier story is in the bible and is backed up by no evidence. a healed amputee would be undeniably an act of god. I don't think you're lying or crazy. i just need something more solid.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
I myself have seen God heal many ailments....even Cancer. I saw a deaf and dumb man healed to where he could hear and speak. I would not lie....God is my witness. Do you believe it?
Most Dr.'s have documented cases where there are unexplained healings in their patients. Go ask a few Dr.'s of this.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
I don't really think it would. You see, I have just listed things that happened to people I know and including myself. Now either you think I'm lying or I'm crazy or you wouldn't ask for documented proof. I suppose I could go to my doctor and ask her for my charts and surgery info, I could probably even ask her to write a letter for me....but God is not proven to an individual with miracles. Never in the bible was someone brought to believe by the act of a miracle. They already came to Him with faith to be healed, or their friends and loved ones brought them to Him for healing and their faith is what healed the person. The miracle of my pregnancy was for my spiritual walk...maybe even my doctor's.
I wonder what the soldier thought who had his ear cut off by Peter and Jesus healed it right then and there?? I wonder if he thought that was an illusion?? Well whatever he thought, he certainly didn't stand up and say that Jesus shouldn't be crucified. I guess even having his own sliced off ear healed wasn't enough proof for him!
And if you are expecting some booming voice from heaven to answer your questions well....it will likely never happen...God works through His people and through His Spirit. Maybe God's answer to your prayer is the Christians in this forum answering your questions.
the rest an be classified as coincidence
the term coincidence is a denial of God
to the believer there is no such thing
until you get a hold of that, nothing will convince you despite what you say about undeniable proof
Sherene, I wish I could write like you and Jcribb. Both of you know how to explain things so well!! Happy your back little chicken :heart:
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Cool, what's your secret?
There is no secret marie. God answers prayers according to His will. For example, I could pray for a million dollars, (which believe me I have)....this is not a prayer that God will just answer. Do I know what a million dollars would do to me once I got my hands on it? Not really. I would like to think it would make my life better and I would be unselfish with it...but is this the prayer of a righteous person? It sounds like the prayer of a greedy person or desperate person to me. At least in my frame of mind.
God answers prayers, He heals, He blesses us....but He answers prayers when it will fulfill our spiritual relationship with Him,
James 4:2-3 (King James Version)
2Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
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Cool, what's your secret?
There is no secret marie. God answers prayers according to His will. For example, I could pray for a million dollars, (which believe me I have)....this is not a prayer that God will just answer. Do I know what a million dollars would do to me once I got my hands on it? Not really. I would like to think it would make my life better and I would be unselfish with it...but is this the prayer of a righteous person? It sounds like the prayer of a greedy person or desperate person to me. At least in my frame of mind.
God answers prayers, He heals, He blesses us....but He answers prayers when it will fulfill our spiritual relationship with Him,
James 4:2-3 (King James Version)
2Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
:thumbsup:
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Ughh......I ate my dinner way to fast :(
Hey Marie, you got a red dot in Europe. I thought FC was just for the US? Also, is that dot at the end of Florida on Florida or Cuba? I find this very interesting.
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:cat: Annella, you write well, also. You go a tad deeper in the subject, which is expected, since that is what you do in your line of work and sharing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that - it needs to be heard! :thumbsup:
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Sherene, I wish I could write like you and Jcribb. Both of you know how to explain things so well!!
Your gift is your sweet spirit Annella! I know God will be saying "Well done my faithful servant" when He sees you in eternity ;) :heart:
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Sherene, I wish I could write like you and Jcribb. Both of you know how to explain things so well!!
Your gift is your sweet spirit Annella! I know God will be saying "Well done my faithful servant" when He sees you in eternity ;) :heart:
Oh I fall sooo short of that, but I love both of you so much my dear friends/sisters. You too Marie :heart:
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Ughh......I ate my dinner way to fast :(
Hey Marie, you got a red dot in Europe. I thought FC was just for the US? Also, is that dot at the end of Florida on Florida or Cuba? I find this very interesting.
Whoever clicks on the page where this map is at, then it will register on the map. So any visitors will register. The one on the end I think is in Cuba or maybe jamaica it looks like.
Looks like you got one in Hawaii also...cool How could someone in Europe have access to FC?
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
Hey Amy....where you be? :heart:
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
Hey Amy....where you be? :heart:
Eh, I'm in and out. Currently fighting with a two year old that does not want to wear a shirt with her shorts to bed and refuses to go to sleep because she is afraid she'll miss something on the 403rd viewing of Pinocchio. I hate bedtime...its even worse when its hours past. :BangHead:
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
Hey Amy....where you be? :heart:
Eh, I'm in and out. Currently fighting with a two year old that does not want to wear a shirt with her shorts to bed and refuses to go to sleep because she is afraid she'll miss something on the 403rd viewing of Pinocchio. I hate bedtime...its even worse when its hours past. :BangHead:
LOL
Ahhh, I remember it well! My son could find more excuses to get out of bed than anyone I know. He needed a drink, bathroom, kleenex, too hot, too cold, needs cold washcloth for his head, heard a noise outside, is someone ringing the doorbell? Dark shadows moving across his window, his "Light Saber" needs new batteries, and he had to tell me to add it to the shopping list, the dog was keeping him awake, people still up was keeping him awake by talking. On and on!
The excuses why he shouldn't attend school sometimes were actually very creative, and I could have sold the ideas to Hollywood for future movies.
It's way past my bedtime.....nite. Travel home tomorrow.
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
Hey Amy....where you be? :heart:
Eh, I'm in and out. Currently fighting with a two year old that does not want to wear a shirt with her shorts to bed and refuses to go to sleep because she is afraid she'll miss something on the 403rd viewing of Pinocchio. I hate bedtime...its even worse when its hours past. :BangHead:
LOL
Ahhh, I remember it well! My son could find more excuses to get out of bed than anyone I know. He needed a drink, bathroom, kleenex, too hot, too cold, needs cold washcloth for his head, heard a noise outside, is someone ringing the doorbell? Dark shadows moving across his window, his "Light Saber" needs new batteries, and he had to tell me to add it to the shopping list, the dog was keeping him awake, people still up was keeping him awake by talking. On and on!
The excuses why he shouldn't attend school sometimes were actually very creative, and I could have sold the ideas to Hollywood for future movies.
Well...she's calm and lying down. It may be wrong of me to hope for more at this point. ::)
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okay, i will believe in miacles if you can present one piece of evidence - a recorded case of healed paralysis (non-temporary paralysis) or amputee. that will convince me of mracles.
So your seeking a sign from God?
Yes, but i has to be undeniable. like an amputee growing a limb back. the rest an be classified as coincidence,
You know...I was getting ready to write something rude here, and thought better of it. I just have one thing to say. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Nothing will provide any proof for you, because if anything can be classified as coincidence, then anything can be rationalized, and Science can explain so much these days that it seems quite reasonable to not believe in g-d. G-d does not owe anyone anything, though, least of all proof. You either believe, or you don't. It isn't impossible to believe and be rational...I see people do this quite often on FC.
Hey Amy....where you be? :heart:
Eh, I'm in and out. Currently fighting with a two year old that does not want to wear a shirt with her shorts to bed and refuses to go to sleep because she is afraid she'll miss something on the 403rd viewing of Pinocchio. I hate bedtime...its even worse when its hours past. :BangHead:
LOL
Ahhh, I remember it well! My son could find more excuses to get out of bed than anyone I know. He needed a drink, bathroom, kleenex, too hot, too cold, needs cold washcloth for his head, heard a noise outside, is someone ringing the doorbell? Dark shadows moving across his window, his "Light Saber" needs new batteries, and he had to tell me to add it to the shopping list, the dog was keeping him awake, people still up was keeping him awake by talking. On and on!
The excuses why he shouldn't attend school sometimes were actually very creative, and I could have sold the ideas to Hollywood for future movies.
Well...she's calm and lying down. It may be wrong of me to hope for more at this point. ::)
LOL Hang in there cookie!
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Those are too personal to be put on this forum, especially with people that deny God, and put down my beliefs. I don't care to be mocked. But there were family members who were there and know themselves about the miracles and happenings that come from God. Even an unbeliever who afterwards accepted Christ when one event happened.
Why is it when I ask believers for examples of how god works in their lives, so many of them refuse and say, "It's too personal" ?! So you're saying you cannot give ANY good examples of your "personal relationship" with Jesus? I thought you were on a first-name basis with him EVERY day? Shouldn't he be doing awesome stuff for you fairly regularly? And you wonder why atheists say there is no proof for your god. When we point out all of the logical flaws of your religion, you always come back with, "That's all fine and well, but god has DONE STUFF in my life, so I believe!" Okay...where are these accounts??? You can't name 5 examples of where god was in action this week, this month, this year?
And what you label as "mocking" would be my showing you in whatever example you presented how it could have happened in the natural world without god.
So then quit talking about it and do something! Quit waiting for God to get involved and change things and get off your butt and do something if it bothers you so much.
That about sums it up pretty well! Maybe you could be the one to change things over there (502).
Why are you making it 502's responsibility? Why not donate that 10% of your income you give to your pastor's lifestyle and do something actually useful with it? I'm always amazed when I hear on the radio: "Folks, if you send us $100, we can send 25 Bibles to this disaster-stricken country. Open up those purse strings now, and do god's work!" Um, they don't need your book, sorry. They need food, clothing, shelter, medicine, and water!!!
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I think we are also incest if we go by evolution as well.
*sigh* No, marie, and I'm pretty sure I've already told you this: incest didn't exist when we started out as basic organisms. Read a biology book!
But there are many Muslims who have accepted Christ, so you cannot close that door on me.
And there are former Muslims that are now atheists. What's your point? Got to be careful with those weak arguments you make there.
Also, I may have been born here, but I was born into a family where my dad forbid me to go to church.
Well I'm sorry to hear the horrible way your dad treated you, and thank you for sharing. However, belief in god is something we're TAUGHT, not born with. So you must have been encouraged into the Christian lifestyle by someone else in your family. When someone prevents you from doing something (going to church), it can make it all the more tempting/repressive in a lot of cases.
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qon, nobody is pushing any religion on you or anyone else on here.
That's not the point. Mere laypeople atheists have to start somewhere in encouraging our fellow man to get out of Bronze Age thinking. It's quite sad how many MILLIONS of people's potentials are wasted on religion. You want to live forever? Well gee, maybe we could if we didn't have so many people wasting their only life WISHING for it instead of developing the technology to make it possible!
There were 4 couples. Noah and his wife, their 3 sons and their wives.
And they all came from 2 people! Nonetheless, if we ignore that glaring detail like you just did, that is not enough genetic diversity by a long shot to repopulate the earth to the BILLIONS.
Go and spread your discontent to someone who actually wants to hear it.
Stop responding to my posts if you don't want to hear it. It's that simple.
If you were a Christian before, and then denounced it, I have no desire to hear anything you have to say.
Wow, "no desire to hear anything you have to say" -- is that what Jesus would do? Better repent for saying that, or you'll burn. Just goes to show that so many Christians don't actually care about people.
We won't denounce our God as you did, so give it up.
Oh, you would love that, wouldn't you? Sorry sweetie; it may be a long and frustrating process, but the fight to chip away at people's unfounded delusions is far from over. P.S. I know you're a lost cause. Thankfully, you only had one offspring you inflicted your beliefs onto.
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Quote from: marieelissa
So then quit talking about it and do something! Quit waiting for God to get involved and change things and get off your butt and do something if it bothers you so much.
Quote from: jcribb16 on October 11, 2010, 05:31:59 pm
That about sums it up pretty well! Maybe you could be the one to change things over there (502).
Quote from queenofnines:
Why are you making it 502's responsibility? Why not donate that 10% of your income you give to your pastor's lifestyle and do something actually useful with it? I'm always amazed when I hear on the radio: "Folks, if you send us $100, we can send 25 Bibles to this disaster-stricken country. Open up those purse strings now, and do god's work!" Um, they don't need your book, sorry. They need food, clothing, shelter, medicine, and water!!!
***First off, qon, when you quote someone on here, please quote the correct person with the correct quote. I have straightened out above where you combined Marie's post with mine.
***Second, I'm not making it 502's responsibility. He was pushing things to the point that Marie responded like she did and I responded to that.
***Third, It is NONE of your business what I do with my 10% (more or less) in my church. That's strictly between me and God.
***Fourth, It's NONE of your business what I do with my "open purse strings" and who I support and not support financially. This is a forum full of people I don't know and I don't have to divulge to you anything.
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Even people in the bible who witnessed the miracles Jesus performed tried to rationalize it away or accuse him of being of the devil....
And we have no good proof that these are anything but myths.
blessed are they who HAVE NOT seen and yet believe.
Warning! Warning! Be VERY skeptical of anything that asks you to believe based on little to no evidence. For your safety.
He has given us plenty of things in this world to have more than enough faith.
Like 98% similar chimp DNA. And dinosaur fossils. lol
Denying God is just that...denial, not accepting truth but denying it.
How arrogant. It might seem like "denial" to you because you're convinced by your delusion, but I cannot deny something that isn't fact to begin with. Plain and simple.
People who really want to know if God is there and that Jesus died for them, all you have to do is (for one moment) put aside your notions of what is fact in your mind and ask Him to reveal Himself.
Are you seeing this, 502?! Look at what she is telling people to do: disregard the reasoning abilities that protect and serve you in all OTHER aspects of your life and embrace the irrational, because that's the ONLY place god can exist. I'm sorry, but if god were real, he would not have designed our brains to be as advanced, rational, logical, and intelligent as they are and then expect us to throw them out the window and believe the ridiculous.
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Quote from: jcribb16
Those are too personal to be put on this forum, especially with people that deny God, and put down my beliefs. I don't care to be mocked. But there were family members who were there and know themselves about the miracles and happenings that come from God. Even an unbeliever who afterwards accepted Christ when one event happened.
Quote from: queenofnines
Why is it when I ask believers for examples of how god works in their lives, so many of them refuse and say, "It's too personal" ?! So you're saying you cannot give ANY good examples of your "personal relationship" with Jesus? I thought you were on a first-name basis with him EVERY day? Shouldn't he be doing awesome stuff for you fairly regularly? And you wonder why atheists say there is no proof for your god. When we point out all of the logical flaws of your religion, you always come back with, "That's all fine and well, but god has DONE STUFF in my life, so I believe!" Okay...where are these accounts??? You can't name 5 examples of where god was in action this week, this month, this year?
And what you label as "mocking" would be my showing you in whatever example you presented how it could have happened in the natural world without god.
***First, your attitude as an "atheist" is very condescending, sarcastic, mean, and superior to Christians, as a whole on here. It appears that you cannot seem to separate the Christian from the actual person.
***Second, It is NONE of your business about things that happened in my life that only made my relationship with God, as a Christian stronger. You don't really care to know and feel anything about this other than the fact that you are trying to mock it. You, as a "used to be Christian" should know better than that.
***Third, I did give an account of what happened with my dad in a previous post on this thread, but apparently you either didn't read it thoroughly or you would be counting that as 1 out of 5 examples that you are once again being sarcastic about.
***Fourth, You are one on here that does not really care to hear a Christian's opinion without mocking it. There are other non-christians on here that actually discuss views on here with an open mind. They have even tried to "tone down" your remarks, taking up for you, but I can see that you don't even appreciate that.
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Are you seeing this, 502?! Look at what she is telling people to do: disregard the reasoning abilities that protect and serve you in all OTHER aspects of your life and embrace the irrational, because that's the ONLY place god can exist. I'm sorry, but if god were real, he would not have designed our brains to be as advanced, rational, logical, and intelligent as they are and then expect us to throw them out the window and believe the ridiculous.
No I am asking him to disregard lies that parade as fact and search God with a sincere heart. And if God isn't really there, then what does a person lose by being vulnerable for a moment and daring to hope in something that is beyond themselves? Besides he already believes in God, he just questions the God of the bible. So your comment is misplaced.
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guys, let me clarify my beliefs because they have chaged during my research. I LOVE the idea of a higher being watching over us. but it all seems too good to be true at this point. everytime i ask abut his actions to help starving children throughout the world, i get an answer like "he has a purpose for them". I can't help but to think *sarcastically* "i'm sure he has a really good reason for 3 year olds to die of starvation." That would be like seeing a child in a house without his mother, dying, would you think "she must have a reason or purpose"?? hell no, you'd call child services or help the child yourself. And when i ask about the killing and slavery in th bible (which in my view proves it's not god's word, because it wouldn't be set up for "different time standards", that proves that men of the past wrote it, because we now know slavery is wrong) I get some type of biblically explained rationalization for it. again, i love the idea of a god, but it's hard to believe in this world.
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i notice people are blaming satan for things. but satan can't do anything unless god allows it, according to the bibe. so god is still generally responsible.
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502, I am sorry, but it is obvious you still have not read those answering posts thoroughly at all. You keep skipping over the fact that there are groups and organizations (Christian based and non-christian based) that go out and try to help everyone they possible can. That doesn't count the slew of missionaries all over the world in great areas and in really bad areas that are also helping them to build homes, have food, go to school, parent their children, etc. I can list a multitude of missionaries that give up their fancy or middle-class or lower-class lives here, to go and help these people. God moved their hearts to want to do this.
Some organizations include but are not limited to: Red Cross, Children International, IHS Child Slave Labor (CLR: Campaign for Labor Rights), World Vision Child Charity, ChildrenDonate2, FoodForThePoor, etc.;
There are people and groups who pay money to these orgs. (or donate) to help further the cause.
There are people who volunteer their time to run shelters to help protect children and spouses where they can receive food, shelter, and comfort. There are some people who won't go to these shelters for fear of being hurt more by the abuser.
There are many HRS's that are trying to do their job and protect children, but they can't be everywhere at once. There are some that let these kids slip through the cracks, too. That's not good. There are some children they know nothing about, because their household is threatened to secrecy (even from the neighbors.) There are neighbors that help by turning people in while others turn their heads. In other countries, some governments rule with an iron thumb and are wrong in how they treat children, family members, etc. Some governments are great and do all they can to punish those who hurt or starve children, etc.
What else more can we do to answer you?
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i notice people are blaming satan for things. but satan can't do anything unless god allows it, according to the bibe. so god is still generally responsible.
I thought you didn't believe in the god of the bible. Why do you try to rationalize it? Or are you trying to understand why people believe in God?
How is that rationalizing the bible? i'm simply implying that the satan blame-game is weak. If there is a god, you won't find him through religion. every religion claims to be right. i want the religious people to explain why their god is any more real than the next guy's.
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502, I am sorry, but it is obvious you still have not read those answering posts thoroughly at all. You keep skipping over the fact that there are groups and organizations (Christian based and non-christian based) that go out and try to help everyone they possible can. That doesn't count the slew of missionaries all over the world in great areas and in really bad areas that are also helping them to build homes, have food, go to school, parent their children, etc. I can list a multitude of missionaries that give up their fancy or middle-class or lower-class lives here, to go and help these people. God moved their hearts to want to do this.
What else more can we do to answer you?
I have read the answers. there ARE charities out tere that are doing good thins, i won't dismiss that. but if god has enough power to do anything, and anything's possible for god, why not just make the land mass produce food? or move the evil dictator's hearts to stop their demising of their own people? And god didn't exactlt move their hearts, it was probably the sight of those people that did.
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disregard the reasoning abilities that protect and serve you in all OTHER aspects of your life and embrace the irrational, because that's the ONLY place god can exist. I'm sorry, but if god were real, he would not have designed our brains to be as advanced, rational, logical, and intelligent as they are and then expect us to throw them out the window and believe the ridiculous.
But don't you see!? It's a test! It always has been!
guys, let me clarify my beliefs because they have chaged during my research. I LOVE the idea of a higher being watching over us. but it all seems too good to be true at this point. everytime i ask abut his actions to help starving children throughout the world, i get an answer like "he has a purpose for them". I can't help but to think *sarcastically* "i'm sure he has a really good reason for 3 year olds to die of starvation." That would be like seeing a child in a house without his mother, dying, would you think "she must have a reason or purpose"?? hell no, you'd call child services or help the child yourself. And when i ask about the killing and slavery in th bible (which in my view proves it's not god's word, because it wouldn't be set up for "different time standards", that proves that men of the past wrote it, because we now know slavery is wrong) I get some type of biblically explained rationalization for it. again, i love the idea of a god, but it's hard to believe in this world.
Hmm! Good ideas here. Good for you. The whole argument of "I dunno but god has a plan so it'll all make sense when you die" ends up being really shallow (and arguably offensive) when you see it outside of the religious box. Your feet are on the ground. So again, g4u. :thumbsup:
I have read the answers. there ARE charities out tere that are doing good thins, i won't dismiss that. but if god has enough power to do anything, and anything's possible for god, why not just make the land mass produce food? or move the evil dictator's hearts to stop their demising of their own people? And god didn't exactlt move their hearts, it was probably the sight of those people that did.
You'll get a different answer with every belief system. With the dominant one here in the US, it involves a talking snake posessed by a demon persuading a woman made from a mans rib.
i want the religious people to explain why their god is any more real than the next guy's.
I assure you that you won't be convinced by any argument thrown your way for this.
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by the way, sorry for my horrid typing, my keyboard sucks
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I see no problem with your typing. It's fine!
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I see no problem with your typing. It's fine!
my keys don't function and words like "specific" ends up looking like "specfc" lol.
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i want the religious people to explain why their god is any more real than the next guy's.
Eh...my g-d is real to me. Doesn't mean it has to be real for you. Historically, in my religion, a convert will be turned away 3 times or more before the conversion process begins. I had to go up to my rabbi and say to him "whether or not you agree to a conversion ceremony, it doesn't matter. I'm Jewish, and although I'd like your approval, it isn't necessary." I've said it all along, religion is a personal thing. Its not my place to tell anyone that theirs is wrong or right. I get in scriptural debate to show there are other ways of looking at these stories, not to try to make someone believe like me. You don't need to be Jewish to be worthy of g-d's love.
So...tell me why I should explain to you why my g-d is real, when you clearly don't want to believe it?
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502, I am sorry, but it is obvious you still have not read those answering posts thoroughly at all.
Why do y'all accuse people who don't buy into your religious rationalizations as having not read what you wrote? It's rather rude to accuse people of this.
You keep skipping over the fact that there are groups and organizations (Christian based and non-christian based) that go out and try to help everyone they possible can.
Yeah, like the Catholics, who are in Africa spreading the lie that condoms CONTRIBUTE to AIDS. Sorry, no gold star :star: for ya there.
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502, I am sorry, but it is obvious you still have not read those answering posts thoroughly at all.
Why do y'all accuse people who don't buy into your religious rationalizations as having not read what you wrote? It's rather rude to accuse people of this.
You keep skipping over the fact that there are groups and organizations (Christian based and non-christian based) that go out and try to help everyone they possible can.
Yeah, like the Catholics, who are in Africa spreading the lie that condoms CONTRIBUTE to AIDS. Sorry, no gold star :star: for ya there.
Many of the groups are not even Christian related, qon, so quit accusing me of religious rationalizations. I didn't list Catholics by name. Where's your list of answers for him, anyway?
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qon, nobody is pushing any religion on you or anyone else on here.
That's not the point. Mere laypeople atheists have to start somewhere in encouraging our fellow man to get out of Bronze Age thinking. It's quite sad how many MILLIONS of people's potentials are wasted on religion. You want to live forever? Well gee, maybe we could if we didn't have so many people wasting their only life WISHING for it instead of developing the technology to make it possible!
There were 4 couples. Noah and his wife, their 3 sons and their wives.
And they all came from 2 people! Nonetheless, if we ignore that glaring detail like you just did, that is not enough genetic diversity by a long shot to repopulate the earth to the BILLIONS.
Go and spread your discontent to someone who actually wants to hear it.
Stop responding to my posts if you don't want to hear it. It's that simple.
If you were a Christian before, and then denounced it, I have no desire to hear anything you have to say.
Wow, "no desire to hear anything you have to say" -- is that what Jesus would do? Better repent for saying that, or you'll burn. Just goes to show that so many Christians don't actually care about people.
We won't denounce our God as you did, so give it up.
Oh, you would love that, wouldn't you? Sorry sweetie; it may be a long and frustrating process, but the fight to chip away at people's unfounded delusions is far from over. P.S. I know you're a lost cause. Thankfully, you only had one offspring you inflicted your beliefs onto.
I don't have much time, but I'm happy to answer you qon. I've been waiting to do such.
First of all, you brow beating Jcribb for not divulging the personal miracles or connections she has with God is totally uncalled for. Your "tell me some proof" is nothing short of another chance to mock or explain away any miracle or anything positive pointing to the belief in God. I posted (once) miracles and manifestations for you and everybody to read that I had witnessed, and happened to me personally, and what did I get? Mocking, and explaining away everything with science or just pure unbelief. Why should we put our pearls out there anymore for YOU to trample them underfoot again? FORGET IT!!!
As far as posting to you, I'm answering a fool in his folly, and not going to let you browbeat my Christian family....got it???
You don't believe in the Bible so telling you anything Biblical is lost on you. I will not tell you anything Biblical anymore. I broke my own rule by even arguing with you about it.
As far as what Jesus would do? He was not some mamby pamby mealy mouth man. Go read his words, and see how he didn't put up with a lot of the stuff that you yourself dish out here. I've done nothing to repent of, and my love for humanity does not have to be proven to YOU! Christians care very much for everybody, but they are not for your entertainment to mock or someone to wipe your shoes on.
You have no idea how happy you made me by calling me a "lost cause" to you. No higher compliment could have been given me.....THANK YOU!! I have news for you......here it is. I influence literally thousands of people wherever I go about the Gospel, and the saving power of Jesus! I will till the day I die!
Be back in 20 min....don't go away
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i want the religious people to explain why their god is any more real than the next guy's.
Eh...my g-d is real to me. Doesn't mean it has to be real for you. Historically, in my religion, a convert will be turned away 3 times or more before the conversion process begins.
So...tell me why I should explain to you why my g-d is real, when you clearly don't want to believe it?
I understand the convertion in the jewish religion, my mom converted when i was like 8 or 9 and she's a devotedjew to this day. I've eve said before that i LOVE the idea of a god. I want to believe in god, i'd love to have one. but every religion claims to be right. i've asked this before, what if you get to heaven and it's allah? then what? what if science brings a flawless answer to explain the human race's existence? people used to think a god physically carried the sun across the sky. but now we know that isn't true. religion seems to be an explanation of what science has yet to explain. also, evolution is possible because everything evolves. humans have evolved to conditions of their land. i'm not saying we started out as monkeys, but, we have evolved.
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I am sure you have an idea of what you believe already, so you pick a religion that correlates with your beliefs. How do we know it is the correct one, we just have faith.
All of them shun other people's beliefs, well not all, that was unfair. but could you imagine if we "just had faith" in EVERYTHING? what if we were under a cruel dictatorship, instead of standing up to the facts, we "just had faith"? that's why people in north korea are starving and dying. because they "just have faith" in their ruler despite the way he locks them down and treats them like caged animals.
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502.....
Your mandate that we as Christians are to sell all we have and give to the poor, is taken out of scripture, and context. This is about 1 rich man that came to Jesus and wanted to follow Him. Mark 10:17-22
It was not a commandment for everybody, but for this man that trusted in his riches. Jesus knew that this would hold him back. Riches were his God. All of us have something we make ruler over the kingdom of our hearts. Some people's god is money. There were many rich men of God in the Bible. Abraham, Solomon, David, etc. It's not a sin to be rich, but what do we do with the riches that God has blessed us with? Do we give to the poor? do we help others less fortunate than ourselves? Now that is commanded by God.
I would love to be rich like Sherene posted in an earlier post, but God knows how well I would handle it, and wether it would be a snare to my soul (Sherene posted these words also). I know some very rich people that are Christians, that donate enormous amounts of money to the poor, and help out causes for the Lord. We have charities because there are those who want to help others as Jcribb said. Many well off people support my Ministry of an Evangelist, and pay for my travels and expenses. They are furthering the Gospel. Money given to God, or the poor, or anything to edify mankind is not lost. You can't out give God. I've had people tell me that the more they give, the more God heaps blessings upon them, and sometimes gives them back "over" what they gave.
Money is not evil.......the LOVE of money is. The love of money is the root of all evil. It's okay to be rich, if riches don't rule your life. Someone asked Rockefeller (spelled wrong), how much money is enough? He answered....a little bit more! This is a man ruled by money, and money ruled him.
I forgot to answer this for you earlier, and just got busy with something else.
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actually, anella, that brought a lot of clarity to my concern, thanks. I don't doubt tht there are valuable lessons to be learned from the bible, i just doubt that the bible is percisely "god's word". it was physically written by men. whether or not they could actually speak to god and translate is not to my knowledge. i really hope i don't seem antagonistic, if i do i apologize.
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I am sure you have an idea of what you believe already, so you pick a religion that correlates with your beliefs. How do we know it is the correct one, we just have faith.
All of them shun other people's beliefs, well not all, that was unfair. but could you imagine if we "just had faith" in EVERYTHING? what if we were under a cruel dictatorship, instead of standing up to the facts, we "just had faith"? that's why people in north korea are starving and dying. because they "just have faith" in their ruler despite the way he locks them down and treats them like caged animals.
502, I have my Spiritual Authority sitting next to me right now, and he's looking over my shoulder and following these postings. He said you need to ask God where he wants you, and be sincere about it. God will not fail you, and Faith is very important to come to God.
You must believe who He is, and that He exists in order to follow Him. You say that you want to believe, and that's a good statement. Since only God knows your heart, only God can lead you. We can give you all the roadmaps, but you have to follow them yourself. We can't "push" you into the "knowledge" of God, we can only lead you, and you have to take the steps of Faith. We will be praying for you.
We will be out for another 20 minutes........
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i want the religious people to explain why their god is any more real than the next guy's.
Eh...my g-d is real to me. Doesn't mean it has to be real for you. Historically, in my religion, a convert will be turned away 3 times or more before the conversion process begins.
So...tell me why I should explain to you why my g-d is real, when you clearly don't want to believe it?
I understand the convertion in the jewish religion, my mom converted when i was like 8 or 9 and she's a devotedjew to this day. I've eve said before that i LOVE the idea of a god. I want to believe in god, i'd love to have one. but every religion claims to be right. i've asked this before, what if you get to heaven and it's allah? then what? what if science brings a flawless answer to explain the human race's existence? people used to think a god physically carried the sun across the sky. but now we know that isn't true. religion seems to be an explanation of what science has yet to explain. also, evolution is possible because everything evolves. humans have evolved to conditions of their land. i'm not saying we started out as monkeys, but, we have evolved.
I am not anti-evolution...don't assume that because I'm religious that I am. I've said before that Science is wonderful and I do not dispute it.
what if science brings a flawless answer to explain the human race's existence?
OK...and? Does that mean that flawless answer makes the entirety of every religious holy book something not worth reading? So what if g-d doesn't exist...am I really hurting anyone that badly by believing g-d does? By feeling a connection with my ancestors when I sing and pray in Hebrew? Yes, my religion motivates me to vote in the way I do...but I'm generally voting for human rights, like equality for gays and women, reproductive rights, and helping out those who are impoverished...I vote in ways that I can display my love for g-d and g-d's people. The simple fact that I believe in g-d, though, seems to be offensive. Why? Because you don't? Its time to embrace our differences, rather than force all to assimilate.
You may believe every religion claims to be right...so? Of course everyone believes they are right; why would they believe it if they didn't? I believe I am right...but accept the possibility that I may be wrong. Til I die, though, I will live my life believing I am right. But, what is right for me may not be right for you. However, upon dying, if I learn that I wasn't right...g-d should respect the life I've lead because I've lived it to the best of my ability, and I've spent my life loving g-d and living the way I believe in my heart is right. Any g-d that wouldn't accept/respect that is not one whose presence I would want to spend eternity in.
I've said it before...I am not living my life and loving g-d in a quest for a reward. Cuddling with my daughter and watching Toy Story for the fiftieth time or Pinocchio for the 500th time is enough reward for me.
I am sure you have an idea of what you believe already, so you pick a religion that correlates with your beliefs. How do we know it is the correct one, we just have faith.
All of them shun other people's beliefs, well not all, that was unfair. but could you imagine if we "just had faith" in EVERYTHING? what if we were under a cruel dictatorship, instead of standing up to the facts, we "just had faith"? that's why people in north korea are starving and dying. because they "just have faith" in their ruler despite the way he locks them down and treats them like caged animals.
You're right, it is unfair to claim all religions shun other people's beliefs. I don't, and there are believers and non-believers on this forum that don't. Generalizations are not pretty, and are not fair.
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thanks for the affirmations, anella. and to amy, despite our relgion, you realize that you could be wrong and know that life as we know it now shoud be enjoyed to the fullest. I praise you for that. I realize i could be wrong as well. you guy's faith dosn't offend me. it dosen't hurt anyone. but i am still skeptical about evey religion. i went to a christian school in 1st and 2nd grade. in the 3rd my mom put me in jewish school. i wish i would have stayed just to learn the hebrew language if nothing else. but since i was about 14 i've been on a seemingly-never-ending quest to find the right way for me to go. rght now, i'm open to all posibilities, here are a lot of things in the bible that are hard to "just ave faith in". n fact i willprobably never "just have faith" in anything. I have to use logic and reason, i can't escape it. it's what makes the world turn. we didn't get to the moon by "just having faith". i'm just saying.
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I don't just pray for those the don't believe in God, but I also pray for the country, my family, the church, children with illness and so much more. Prayer is a very powerful thing. After reading many of these posts, qon it seems that you don't want to listen to anything anyone has to say because it has been stated over and over. Are your listening or do you just like to argue? Do you still actually believe in God to a degree but you are really trying to convince yourself that you don't. I grew up church and always knew about God but that is where it really ended. After my divorce and moving back in with my parents with my 2 kids, I struggled. I really didn't want to live and that my kids were better off without me. One day when I was at my lowest, I picked up my Bible and started reading it. At the point, something got hold of me and I starting believing in God. See the difference is that I knew God was real but I had never accepted Him or Believed in Him. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and my life as never been better. True I have gone through a lot of trails and hardships, but because of my believe I have been able to come through those. I have a question (maybe 2) to ask before I have to go. I'm a single mom and my day never ends. Question 1 - Do you know that difference between joy and happiness? Question 2 - Which one of those do you feel? As for the post regarding Christians being put in jail, etc. It is true. It is getting harder and harder for Christians to be open but other religious faiths can be open about their faith. Christians are having a difficult time, but I wouldn't change my faith for nothing. God bless you all.
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I know, I must be nuts for God talking to me right? In fact, the only people that are not nuts to say God spoke to them are the ones in biblical days. That to me is just, um, well retarded.
If that is how you people feel, then the whole bible and God thing and all religions are a crock of poo poo.
If I am crazy because of this, well you are crazy for believing any of it.
I really get tired of getting called nuts or mental or whatever. You don't relize, these are my beliefs do you?
They have not been heard of before me. They are mine. Respect my beliefs and I will respect yours, I have respected yours already.
NO you are not crazy. God does speak to us. Maybe not literally but in that small voice inside of you, a scripture that pops into you head, an email that came just at the right time. I have the same thing happen to me. Oh, I also work in a psych hospital. There is a difference God speaking like I said and how others say He speaks. Ask any Bible teacher or preacher and they will agree.
I just have to ask, I speak to God, do you? God speaks to me, does he speak to you? Is that nuts? Why must people try to tell me I am wrong?
You're wrong, not me, you.
Your beliefs are giving me a headache. They MAKE NO SENSE.
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I wouldn't change my faith for nothing. God bless you all.
:thumbsup:
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thanks for the affirmations, anella. and to amy, despite our relgion, you realize that you could be wrong and know that life as we know it now shoud be enjoyed to the fullest. I praise you for that. I realize i could be wrong as well. you guy's faith dosn't offend me. it dosen't hurt anyone. but i am still skeptical about evey religion. i went to a christian school in 1st and 2nd grade. in the 3rd my mom put me in jewish school. i wish i would have stayed just to learn the hebrew language if nothing else. but since i was about 14 i've been on a seemingly-never-ending quest to find the right way for me to go. rght now, i'm open to all posibilities, here are a lot of things in the bible that are hard to "just ave faith in". n fact i willprobably never "just have faith" in anything. I have to use logic and reason, i can't escape it. it's what makes the world turn. we didn't get to the moon by "just having faith". i'm just saying.
Okay, why do you have logic and reason? Why do you even want to know more about God, or if He exists? Wouldn't that be something you think of with your logic and reason? You say you've been on a never-ending quest to find out the right way to go. Why do you even have that longing? Could it be that your being pulled by a God that want's to know you as you want to know Him?
There are many religions, but you must find the way for YOU and where YOU belong. You can listen to everybody's explanation of where, why, what, but it's your choice, and you have to work that out for yourself. As far as the Bible being written by men? Your right, men wrote it as they were "moved on" by the Spirit of God. I myself believe it to be the miracle it is! All those books put together by different men of God, in different times and dispensations, to come together and "flow" together in harmony like it does, takes nothing short of a miracle in my book. I've tested it's "Truths" between it's pages and found them to be correct and True.
Sometimes there are things that go beyond reason and logic in the Spiritual realm, because, well........it's spiritual, where reason and logic can't explain it or follow. That's where Faith comes in, and a belief in God.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
But without faith it is impossible to please Him: For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
We're going to dinner and will be gone awhile. I hope we've helped you a little bit 502. God loves you more than you can even fathom. So do we.
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I don't just pray for those the don't believe in God, but I also pray for the country, my family, the church, children with illness and so much more. Prayer is a very powerful thing. After reading many of these posts, qon it seems that you don't want to listen to anything anyone has to say because it has been stated over and over. Are your listening or do you just like to argue? Do you still actually believe in God to a degree but you are really trying to convince yourself that you don't. I grew up church and always knew about God but that is where it really ended. After my divorce and moving back in with my parents with my 2 kids, I struggled. I really didn't want to live and that my kids were better off without me. One day when I was at my lowest, I picked up my Bible and started reading it. At the point, something got hold of me and I starting believing in God. See the difference is that I knew God was real but I had never accepted Him or Believed in Him. I accepted Jesus as my Savior and my life as never been better. True I have gone through a lot of trails and hardships, but because of my believe I have been able to come through those. I have a question (maybe 2) to ask before I have to go. I'm a single mom and my day never ends. Question 1 - Do you know that difference between joy and happiness? Question 2 - Which one of those do you feel? As for the post regarding Christians being put in jail, etc. It is true. It is getting harder and harder for Christians to be open but other religious faiths can be open about their faith. Christians are having a difficult time, but I wouldn't change my faith for nothing. God bless you all.
Very well put, ladysurvivor!! :heart:
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We gave you answers plenty of times, but you keep asking the questions...if you don't accept those answers that's fine, but quit asking the same damn questions.
Yep - that would be it. A lot of the "answers" aren't really answers at all; they're justifications, excuses, rationalizations, or my personal favorite :P , "just have faith and go ask god".
Your "tell me some proof" is nothing short of another chance to mock or explain away any miracle or anything positive pointing to the belief in God.
No, I really am curious how people can spend their whole lives devoted to the dogma and never see the problems with it/ignore them. Please fill me in, otherwise I am left with thinking humanity is just weak and stupid (not a word I try to use that often because it offends, but it's true).
Why should we put our pearls out there anymore for YOU to trample them underfoot again?
Comparing me to swine, are you? I've read the Bible, so you can't make these underhanded insults and expect to get away with it, miss. Again, not very Christian of you.
As far as what Jesus would do? He was not some mamby pamby mealy mouth man.
You can craft the Christian god to be anything you want when he doesn't exist. :thumbsup:
You have no idea how happy you made me by calling me a "lost cause" to you. No higher compliment could have been given me.....THANK YOU!! I have news for you......here it is. I influence literally thousands of people wherever I go about the Gospel, and the saving power of Jesus! I will till the day I die!
I always scratch my head when people taunt stuff like this. "I'M A STRONGER CHRISTIAN THANKS TO YOU, HA!" Blah, blah, blah...are people really *that* insecure that they need to make such childish announcements? It just looks sad.
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Are your listening or do you just like to argue?
My argumentative attitude comes from being frustrated and P.O.ed at humanity for sacrificing their lives to such baseless things. That is all.
Do you still actually believe in God to a degree but you are really trying to convince yourself that you don't.
Nope. And that's a really silly thing to say. Please stop saying this, believers. I don't believe in your god. In fact, I know the Christian god doesn't exist. I know it's hard for y'all to come to the terms with this, but millions of people are convinced that Biblegod is just a malfunction in the mind. There might still be an entity running a giant cosmic science experiment, but I don't believe that to be the case because I have no good reason to.
Okay, why do you have logic and reason?
Because it was beneficial to our species in terms of survival. It's a natural consequence of our evolved intelligence.
Why do you even want to know more about God, or if He exists?
Hmm, because it's a pretty important matter to be sure of before you kick the bucket and potentially wind up in hell forever, ya think?
Wouldn't that be something you think of with your logic and reason?
Eh...logic and reason is what helps one determine that the claims of religion are fantastical and false. In terms of wanting an answer to the god question, this is only because we're born into a world that pretends one exists. We want to know if there's anything to this widely-held tradition "just to be safe". There's not. ;)
Why do you even have that longing? Could it be that your being pulled by a God that want's to know you as you want to know Him?
Uh, no. We're curious creatures. It's how we've got to be so dang advanced is by asking questions, exploring, developing science. We could have just sat around as cavemen flinging poo at each other, but evolution had something else in mind.
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We gave you answers plenty of times, but you keep asking the questions...if you don't accept those answers that's fine, but quit asking the same damn questions.
Yep - that would be it. A lot of the "answers" aren't really answers at all; they're justifications, excuses, rationalizations, or my personal favorite :P , "just have faith and go ask god".
Your "tell me some proof" is nothing short of another chance to mock or explain away any miracle or anything positive pointing to the belief in God.
No, I really am curious how people can spend their whole lives devoted to the dogma and never see the problems with it/ignore them. Please fill me in, otherwise I am left with thinking humanity is just weak and stupid (not a word I try to use that often because it offends, but it's true).
Why should we put our pearls out there anymore for YOU to trample them underfoot again?
Comparing me to swine, are you? I've read the Bible, so you can't make these underhanded insults and expect to get away with it, miss. Again, not very Christian of you.
As far as what Jesus would do? He was not some mamby pamby mealy mouth man.
You can craft the Christian god to be anything you want when he doesn't exist. :thumbsup:
You have no idea how happy you made me by calling me a "lost cause" to you. No higher compliment could have been given me.....THANK YOU!! I have news for you......here it is. I influence literally thousands of people wherever I go about the Gospel, and the saving power of Jesus! I will till the day I die!
I always scratch my head when people taunt stuff like this. "I'M A STRONGER CHRISTIAN THANKS TO YOU, HA!" Blah, blah, blah...are people really *that* insecure that they need to make such childish announcements? It just looks sad.
If your going to address Marieelissa, please address her individually and not add her onto something your posting to me. I can't answer for her.
NO, your not curious, because the very thing your asking for was provided by me, and you decided to mock and explain away anything I wrote.....so, unless someone else wants to answer you (I highly doubt it), forget it!
Since you made the connection with the "pearls" comment, and then you make the statement that we can craft God into anything we want, because he doesn't exist? Uh, do you have any idea how contradictory you sound? You have said countless times that there is no God, and the Bible is false, but every time you get a chance to use it for your own argument....you do. So which is it? I don't think you know yourself.
Your opinion of my Christianity matters to me.....uh nothing. You want to analyze my Christian walk? knock yourself out! Your the most hateful, rude, obnoxious individual I've ever came across on any forum. If you knew me, you would know that for me to say that to anyone, takes a lot. You have goaded, put down, called names, mocked, insulted, intimidated, every Christian on this forum. You spew your hateful garbage expecting no one to call you on it because we're Christians right? So if we stick up for ourselves or say anything contrary to what you post, then it's time for you to attack our walk with God.
You were once a Christian (or so you say), so maybe you think that gives you some type of authority to pull through the mud what you willingly cast aside. You made that choice. Frankly, I think that's why your so full of hate and maliciousness. So now your out to undermine anyone who holds dear what you so carelessly cast aside?
I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but your just downright mean.
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Quote from Annella:
You have no idea how happy you made me by calling me a "lost cause" to you. No higher compliment could have been given me.....THANK YOU!! I have news for you......here it is. I influence literally thousands of people wherever I go about the Gospel, and the saving power of Jesus! I will till the day I die!
quote from queenofnines:
I always scratch my head when people taunt stuff like this. "I'M A STRONGER CHRISTIAN THANKS TO YOU, HA!" Blah, blah, blah...are people really *that* insecure that they need to make such childish announcements? It just looks sad.
Those "taunts" you speak of just mean that it's getting your goat that there are genuine Christians who know that they may be called names to stand their ground for God. That's nothing compared to what Jesus was called and "taunted" with. Definitely not "insecurity." You just keep "scratching your head."
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:cat: Hang in there, Annella! Have a super day! Glad you are back! :)
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:cat: Hang in there, Annella! Have a super day! Glad you are back! :)
Thanks hon. I have to go get breakfast prepared for my guests, but I'll be checking back periodically. God bless you today too :heart:
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If your going to address Marieelissa, please address her individually and not add her onto something your posting to me. I can't answer for her.
I don't intend for you to answer for her. Do you not see how I denote who quoted what EVERY time if I'm quoting more than one person? Yeah, that's more than a lot of people on here can do with the BB Code.
NO, your not curious, because the very thing your asking for was provided by me, and you decided to mock and explain away anything I wrote.....
I'm curious how y'all can give such mundane examples of "miracles" that are easily explained by the natural world and still think there's a god! P.S. "You're", Annella, "you're"!
Uh, do you have any idea how contradictory you sound? You have said countless times that there is no God, and the Bible is false, but every time you get a chance to use it for your own argument....you do. So which is it? I don't think you know yourself.
Another real gem of an argument! Not. So I'm not allowed to point out the fallacies in your holy book because I don't believe it??? Excuse me, but those fallacies are one of the reasons I (and countless others) realized Christianity is bogus. The proof that your god is a superstitious invention of primitive man is right there in black and white. And Christians don't "own" that book -- it's supposed to be for ALL of god's children, remember??
Your the most hateful, rude, obnoxious individual I've ever came across on any forum.
And I think that's pretty hateful/rude/obnoxious of you to say. Also far-fetched. I realize a lot of the things I've said may have been too extreme for some people's taste at times, sounded mean, etc. Like I said before, it's easy to get caught up in the frustration and anger because of what you all are sacrificing your lives to. Obviously this all has bothered you WAY more than I planned for it to.
You have goaded, put down, called names, mocked, insulted, intimidated, every Christian on this forum.
No, just your small group of pals which totals...3? I'm not trying to "call names" when I say the things that you believe are delusional. I'm like the family who's trying to get the crack addict to see that they're hurting themselves on some reality intervention show. And by the way, I like jcribb and Sherna...but you've been "the grouchy old woman" since I first encountered you.
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Quote from: Annella on Today at 06:54:38 am
If your going to address Marieelissa, please address her individually and not add her onto something your posting to me. I can't answer for her.
Quote from queenofnines:
I don't intend for you to answer for her. Do you not see how I denote who quoted what EVERY time if I'm quoting more than one person? Yeah, that's more than a lot of people on here can do with the BB Code.
qon, actually, I just asked a few posts back to not include marie's quote with mine where you combined both as mine. I normally don't say anything about things like that because we all make mistakes. But since you jumped annella about it, I just wanted to remind you that you do it, too.
And by the way, I still like you, too. I just don't care for the "overboard strong word attacks" on Christians that believe in Jesus. The point being, it doesn't mess with your life in any way whatsoever for them to believe or not believe.
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I'm curious how y'all can give such mundane examples of "miracles" that are easily explained by the natural world and still think there's a god! P.S. "You're", Annella, "you're"!
Yes, I know you're, I've made that mistake all my life. I also transpose numbers and some letters. It's a flaw, Dyslexia, block, or something. Done it all my life. Y'all understand? ::)
See......before we even say anything your calling our experiences "mundane". Why should we tell you anything when you ask, and mask it with "oh, I'm just curious", yeah, sure....
Another real gem of an argument! Not. So I'm not allowed to point out the fallacies in your holy book because I don't believe it??? Excuse me, but those fallacies are one of the reasons I (and countless others) realized Christianity is bogus. The proof that your god is a superstitious invention of primitive man is right there in black and white. And Christians don't "own" that book -- it's supposed to be for ALL of god's children, remember??
HUH??? You always point out what you think about the false Bible, and your unbelief in a God. What I was pointing out is you use them whenever it suits you. You flip flop on it, and contradict yourself. Nobody claimed ownership to the Bible so what is that end statement for? Remember what? You're not making sense.
And I think that's pretty hateful/rude/obnoxious of you to say. Also far-fetched. I realize a lot of the things I've said may have been too extreme for some people's taste at times, sounded mean, etc. Like I said before, it's easy to get caught up in the frustration and anger because of what you all are sacrificing your lives to. Obviously this all has bothered you WAY more than I planned for it to.
Really? You don't like it do you? How do you think others feel that are the recipients of your verbal poison you dish out? It's not far-fetch by a long shot. Your trying to justify your lack of manners on frustration and anger? Well, then you must be frustrated and angry constantly. As far as bothering me....yeah, I didn't like the way you were backing Jcribb into a corner, and blasting away on her. I told you a long time ago, you go after my brothers and sisters like you do, and I'm going to defend them. Your fellow atheists or agnostics come to your defense. What's the diff? To be honest, I've had my fill up to my eyebrows, how you pick on people. Even new people come in, and you blast them to pieces.
No, just your small group of pals which totals...3? I'm not trying to "call names" when I say the things that you believe are delusional. I'm like the family who's trying to get the crack addict to see that they're hurting themselves on some reality intervention show. And by the way, I like jcribb and Sherna...but you've been "the grouchy old woman" since I first encountered you.
Oh, I knew that was coming.....pfttt The way you were coming down on Jcribb didn't sound like there was a speck of kindness in your postings to her. Guess what, I happen to appreciate Falconer, and forming a fondness and understanding for Walksalone and his struggle. What does that have to do with the price of bread? You put any title on me you want. It still doesn't give you carte blanche to intimidate people just because they believe in God. Your like a vulture waiting to attack ANYBODY who even says they're a Christian, or alludes to it.
There's not a thing wrong with disagreeing with what someone says or what they believe. Debating is an exchange of pros and cons on stances of said individuals involved in it. When it comes to calling people stupid, silly, delusional, or worse names/titles, then it's not debating, it's mud slinging.
Now....I'm done talking to you, so you go ahead and post whatever you want to get the last word in. I could care less.
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Jcribb, this is off topic, but I keep trying to figure out how your Owl is changing. It goes so fast that I can't "catch" what it "blinks" to reveal. Something scary probably for halloween.
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Jcribb, this is off topic, but I keep trying to figure out how your Owl is changing. It goes so fast that I can't "catch" what it "blinks" to reveal. Something scary probably for halloween.
Annella, you just pointed something out I didn't even notice!!!! I liked the owl picture, so I posted it. I haven't taken the time to study his eyes until now when you said something about it. That's neat how his eyes blink. "Mysteriously" Thanks!!!! :)
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I don't know why you think people that don't believe in God are on some High Intellectual level, because you're not and I doubt the existence of God all the time.
A good test of one's intellectual level is if they can properly structure sentences. Something I am not seeing here...heh.
if there is no God, what does anybody have to gain but some life experience that they will forget all about at the moment of death.
Uh, you have a LOT to gain, being that it's your one and only time that you will be conscious! How sad that you need to cling to this childish concept of heaven just to make this life bearable. I don't. You know if you stopped treating this life like the doormat where you wipe your feet before you get to your REAL life in eternity, you might have a better time.
It doesn't matter if you were rich, beautiful, very smart, popular....poor, ugly, retarded and hated....you all end up in the same boat at the end.
Yep. All the more reason not to waste your only shot at awareness on religion.
Do you think you know why I believe in God? It's not for what he can do for me or give me...it's more because of the fact that I find any of this unlikely without some kind of force or guiding hand. I believe with all my heart that there is something bigger, larger with an intelligence that is in complete control.
The argument from complexity is an argument from ignorance. I thought we established this?
I don't care WHY you believe in god...the point is you obviously NEED to, or you wouldn't keep coming back to it.
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Saying believers are not on the same intelletual level as non believers...is why I started the thread "If you believe in God you're a retard."
You feel it's "calling names" because you're on the defensive. It's still true, I assure you: http://www.youtube.com/user/Netwriter#p/u/1/_I5V9JPzMxY
Before you assume...you have some sort of higher IQ than me...which I know you don't because I can tell...know the person.
I can safely say that every single person on this forum (even the people who don't like me like Annella) will say that I have a much higher I.Q. than you, marie. Unlike you, I'm not being childish by saying this...it's just the facts.
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I wouldn't assume anyone's IQ based on posts in a forum. My brother has a genius level IQ and he acts like an idiot 24/7. My sister who is bi-polar and has no common sense whatsoever has only a slightly lower IQ than my brother. IQ is not a good measurement of overall intelligence. Ever heard of "idiot savants"?
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I wouldn't assume anyone's IQ based on posts in a forum. My brother has a genius level IQ and he acts like an idiot 24/7. My sister who is bi-polar and has no common sense whatsoever has only a slightly lower IQ than my brother. IQ is not a good measurement of overall intelligence. Ever heard of "idiot savants"?
I agree with you...but can you understand why it irritates the living hell out of me when someone will post something like you will never be on the same intellectual level as a non believer...I mean come on! Stroke your ego enough?!?
Yes Marie I can understand and it irritates me as well. But that is the mindset that many atheists and the like have about people who believe in God. It doesn't really matter though, other people's opinions do not define who we are. It is only what they think and since they are wrong, who cares right? :)
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It is only what they think and since they are wrong, who cares right? :)
Hmm...I would think it is much more ego-stroking to label your opposition as wrong based on such shoddy evidence. God is not fact, clearly, so why are you acting like he is by asserting something you couldn't possibly know (that atheists are wrong)?
And marie, you're the one who rambled off your "intelligence qualifications", not me.
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Saying believers are not on the same intelletual level as non believers...is why I started the thread "If you believe in God you're a retard."
You feel it's "calling names" because you're on the defensive. It's still true, I assure you: http://www.youtube.com/user/Netwriter#p/u/1/_I5V9JPzMxY
Before you assume...you have some sort of higher IQ than me...which I know you don't because I can tell...know the person.
I can safely say that every single person on this forum (even the people who don't like me like Annella) will say that I have a much higher I.Q. than you, marie. Unlike you, I'm not being childish by saying this...it's just the facts.
qon: Please do not include me as one of the members saying you have a much higher I.Q. than Marie. I don't know either one of you outside of this forum, so I don't know what I.Q. either of you have. I will say, however, that you, qon, throw your "superiorness" around as if bragging - that doesn't impress people. You try to make people look dumber than you because they may not "speak or write" as eloquently as you do. So what? You also try to make Christians look dumb because of our belief in the Lord. So what? I would rather believe in my Lord than to be steeped in your "superior" I.Q., which I may add that your I.Q. sure won't help you when you leave this world. So enjoy it now. While you are buddying around in the eternal place of punishment, those of us who know Christ, personally, will be with Him in His eternity. Because that is your I.Q. choice.
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It is only what they think and since they are wrong, who cares right? :)
Hmm...I would think it is much more ego-stroking to label your opposition as wrong based on such shoddy evidence. God is not fact, clearly, so why are you acting like he is by asserting something you couldn't possibly know (that atheists are wrong)?
And marie, you're the one who rambled off your "intelligence qualifications", not me.
I was referring to the statement about non believers being more intelligent. That statement is wrong and should be completely disregarded. However, God is fact and as for shoddy evidence....we have already been over that and you have failed miserably to answer important relevant questions regarding your own beliefs in evolution. You can't answer them and all you can say is, it's because you're not a scientist, you probably tried searching for the answers and couldn't find them because scientists don't have an answer for the all the questions....yet you believe it. Despite the problems with proof, despite the legitimate opposing ideas that rightly call into question unsubstantiated claims of human and cosmic origins...you believe it. It has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with where you put your faith.
Mine is in God. Yours is in science.
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I don't know why you think people that don't believe in God are on some High Intellectual level, because you're not and I doubt the existence of God all the time.
A good test of one's intellectual level is if they can properly structure sentences. Something I am not seeing here...heh.
if there is no God, what does anybody have to gain but some life experience that they will forget all about at the moment of death.
Uh, you have a LOT to gain, being that it's your one and only time that you will be conscious! How sad that you need to cling to this childish concept of heaven just to make this life bearable. I don't. You know if you stopped treating this life like the doormat where you wipe your feet before you get to your REAL life in eternity, you might have a better time.
It doesn't matter if you were rich, beautiful, very smart, popular....poor, ugly, retarded and hated....you all end up in the same boat at the end.
Yep. All the more reason not to waste your only shot at awareness on religion.
Do you think you know why I believe in God? It's not for what he can do for me or give me...it's more because of the fact that I find any of this unlikely without some kind of force or guiding hand. I believe with all my heart that there is something bigger, larger with an intelligence that is in complete control.
The argument from complexity is an argument from ignorance. I thought we established this?
I don't care WHY you believe in god...the point is you obviously NEED to, or you wouldn't keep coming back to it.
Well if we have something going on that maks us NEED to believe in God, then you must have something going on that makes you NEED to bash Him.
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I don't know why you think people that don't believe in God are on some High Intellectual level, because you're not and I doubt the existence of God all the time.
A good test of one's intellectual level is if they can properly structure sentences. Something I am not seeing here...heh.
if there is no God, what does anybody have to gain but some life experience that they will forget all about at the moment of death.
Uh, you have a LOT to gain, being that it's your one and only time that you will be conscious! How sad that you need to cling to this childish concept of heaven just to make this life bearable. I don't. You know if you stopped treating this life like the doormat where you wipe your feet before you get to your REAL life in eternity, you might have a better time.
It doesn't matter if you were rich, beautiful, very smart, popular....poor, ugly, retarded and hated....you all end up in the same boat at the end.
Yep. All the more reason not to waste your only shot at awareness on religion.
Do you think you know why I believe in God? It's not for what he can do for me or give me...it's more because of the fact that I find any of this unlikely without some kind of force or guiding hand. I believe with all my heart that there is something bigger, larger with an intelligence that is in complete control.
The argument from complexity is an argument from ignorance. I thought we established this?
I don't care WHY you believe in god...the point is you obviously NEED to, or you wouldn't keep coming back to it.
Well if we have something going on that maks us NEED to believe in God, then you must have something going on that makes you NEED to bash Him.
:thumbsup:
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I'd be fine...remember I still have the voices and hallucinations, whether God is real or not.
I'd be a little upset, but who wouldn't?
You are simply a nut job that needs mentally help...even your crutch (god) can't help you. ::)
God has helped me a lot. I was so much worse than I am today ~ 12 years ago.
A note to hwilliams: That was extremely rude of you to call her that name. It also is obvious that God has helped her a lot!
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I'd be fine...remember I still have the voices and hallucinations, whether God is real or not.
I'd be a little upset, but who wouldn't?
You are simply a nut job that needs mentally help...even your crutch (god) can't help you. ::)
God has helped me a lot. I was so much worse than I am today ~ 12 years ago.
A note to hwilliams: That was extremely rude of you to call her that name. It also is obvious that God has helped her a lot!
I just don't understand some people. I don't know where all the hate comes from.
I totally agree, Marie.
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If everyone did all they could to help others then ALL the world would benefit. However, our free will allows us to be selfish to the extent that others suffer as we look on.
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If everyone did all they could to help others then ALL the world would benefit. However, our free will allows us to be selfish to the extent that others suffer as we look on.
I totally agree (obviously). Kind of like this--
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/16/touchdown-jesus-statue-burns-down
I always get a kick out of this one.
"Let's build a $700,000 statue back up instead of using that money to aid people in need."
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God creates, we do the rest. We are all children of God, thus we are creators also. We all have free will and create our reality by the choices we make. There is perfection in everything that occurs in life.
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Does anyone have agood explanation for why god dosen't help people around the world? i can understand the spoiled, over-privelaged u.s., but what about places like afganistan, north korea, etc.?
We could try to explain all day and night as to why God does or doesn't do certain things. In the end though, those were not God's words coming out of his mouth, so it's pointless to even ponder.
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you just have to remember the world wasn't this messed up when He started it...it became that way when people abused their free will.
I am with you on this one. When god created this world it wasnt this messed up, people here made it this way and god cant just come in and hand you a million dollars to make everyones life better. We all live diffrently and some have it hard and I mean hard, but that should show you not to take anything for granted. What we consider poor may not always be poor. Also the people living like that in those countries unfortunately it has to do with their leaders there. But like i said and like she said it wasnt like that and god cant come and just hand you money to make things better. SOme pass to show us and other people that we should be happy and never take anything for granted.
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Saying believers are not on the same intelletual level as non believers...is why I started the thread "If you believe in God you're a retard."
You feel it's "calling names" because you're on the defensive. It's still true, I assure you: http://www.youtube.com/user/Netwriter#p/u/1/_I5V9JPzMxY
Before you assume...you have some sort of higher IQ than me...which I know you don't because I can tell...know the person.
I can safely say that every single person on this forum (even the people who don't like me like Annella) will say that I have a much higher I.Q. than you, marie. Unlike you, I'm not being childish by saying this...it's just the facts.
qon: Please do not include me as one of the members saying you have a much higher I.Q. than Marie. I don't know either one of you outside of this forum, so I don't know what I.Q. either of you have. I will say, however, that you, qon, throw your "superiorness" around as if bragging - that doesn't impress people. You try to make people look dumber than you because they may not "speak or write" as eloquently as you do. So what? You also try to make Christians look dumb because of our belief in the Lord. So what? I would rather believe in my Lord than to be steeped in your "superior" I.Q., which I may add that your I.Q. sure won't help you when you leave this world. So enjoy it now. While you are buddying around in the eternal place of punishment, those of us who know Christ, personally, will be with Him in His eternity. Because that is your I.Q. choice.
You took the words right outt amy mouth.
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You took the words right outt amy mouth.
You need to understand that qon was referring to the worst troll on this forum. After many threats, lies, put-downs, and general idiocy, Marie practically deserves every ounce of disrespect she gets from the veteran users on this forum that have dealt with her non-stop garbage. On the latter, IQ does not mean too much anyway- http://hotword.dictionary.com/iq-genius-macarthur/
So enjoy it now. While you are buddying around in the eternal place of punishment, those of us who know Christ, personally, will be with Him in His eternity. Because that is your I.Q. choice.
Well first off, keep your primitive insults at bay! Cursing someone into hell like ya did here is beyond tribal-like. Secondly, you don't know someone personally if the entire story happened thousands of years ago, cannot be proven, has obvious fictional qualities, and is tied to other stories that happened before this apparent myth. You have a lot riding against you if you're going to put this under legitimacy. I say this to provoke the argument though! Not to be rude.
When god created this world it wasnt this messed up
Compared to what it is like today, I can assure you it was a lot more messed up than it is today when viewed in our own eyes. But of course it depends on what "messed up" means to you ;)
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You know, I am tired of it! Screw debate and discuss. I can't debate or discuss with people because I keep getting called a troll. It is so frustrating :BangHead:
I will leave on this note.... there is a God :peace: