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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: mythociate on January 29, 2014, 07:17:50 pm
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I say yes, yes it is ... no matter how low it is. If it's below the current cost-of-living, it's THE PRICE-SETTERS who need to adjust! :moneymouth:
(added Today (1-30) after 11:42:58 am ) Tell me what you think about THAT solution!
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The Minimum Wage Used To Be Enough To Keep Workers Out Of Poverty—It’s Not Anymore.
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knowing how we struggle each month to make ends-meat and my husband earns over minimum wage i can see why it needs to be raised.
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The Minimum Wage Used To Be Enough To Keep Workers Out Of Poverty—It’s Not Anymore.
You mean it used to be high enough to teach them that money is a BAD thing?
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I don't know how you can say that the minimum wage is high enough. People are struggling to keep their heads above water. At $7.25 an hour, it is better than it was in the 1980's when the minimum wage was $3.10 an hour and then raised to $3.35 an hour. In the 1990's, it was raised to $4.25 an hour. I have made $3.10 an hour, $3.35 an hour, and got a job where I was paid $4.95 an hour (70 cents above minimum wage). I then was paid $5.15 an hour before being paid $461.53 for 70 hours bi-weekly. People need more money now to survive on and, unless you have been in the shoes of a person who have worked for minimum wage, you will never understand what it is to actually say your head has been above water when you have struggled for so long to survive. ??? ??? ??? :thumbsup: :rainbow:
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Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers or even long term jobs really
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The minimum wage is a joke! There is no way a family can live on minimum wage, it needs to be around $12.00 an hour at least in most states.
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Money is just a measure of the worth of something, the value that a good or service provides (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29)). In a healthy, competitive market, the price should come very close to the value of the item. If the price is artificially changed by some force outside of the market, then the market must make adjustments in order to re-establish equilibrium between price and value. Thus raising the minimum wage artificially through government action is a terrible idea, esp. in an economy that is already struggling.
First of all, the reason behind raising the minimum wage is to help out the working poor -- those people that are struggling to get their heads "above water" while working at a lower paying job. However it may surprise some of you to know that few of these working poor have minimum wage jobs... Minimum wage is for jobs that require no experience and no education. Thus most of the workers getting minimum wage are teenagers because they are too young to have any experience and are probably still in high school so don't have a whole lot of education either. However these teenagers are living at home, usually in a family that is in the middle or upper end of income earners. Thus by raising the minimum wage you are more likely to "help out" teens from wealthier families.
The reason why few working poor actually have minimum wage jobs is because they've probably been in that category of working poor for most of their working lives. Thus they actually now DO have experience and perhaps even at least a high school degree. So they are more apt to be in a higher level of employment, making more than just the minimum wage. They are more likely to be a head cashier, assistant manager, head bartender, lead operator, etc. and are being paid accordingly. So they may already be making $10 / hour.
Now imagine that you are one of those working poor making about $10 / hour and the minimum wage gets passed to increase it to $10 / hour. Now you're seeing these teenagers who just started working a few months ago being paid the same amount that you are, and you've been with the company for a good 5 years. You're going to be upset and demand a higher wage too. And on it goes up through the rest of the company, each level demanding higher wages because they are worth more as a worker than the level below them that just got a raise for no reason (other than the government mandated it). So if the company can handle the cost (and that is a mighty big if), all the minimum wage increase does is most likely provide a temporary boost to the wages of wealthy teenagers until the wages throughout the rest of the company can normalize itself.
However I mentioned that it is a huge assumption that a company will be able to handle all of the wage increases throughout the company without having any other effect in the company. Most likely the company will have to do other things in order to handle this additional cost imposed on them. They might cut jobs or at the very least cut hours (esp. for anyone working 35+ hours per week so as to also eliminate other costs that they provide to full-time workers). And if they are going to be doing this, the company will first start cutting those lower waged jobs where if the company does better in the future and can re-fill those jobs, they can fill those slots from a larger pool of people qualified. In fact if the minimum wage jobs are necessary to maintain throughput, they may target those second level jobs more, esp. if the manager can handle a little more responsibility by doing what the assistant manager would be doing. And if the working poor are more apt to be found in those positions, the minimum wage will actually adversely affect those individuals.
A company may also attempt to handle those additional costs by increasing prices and having the consumer pay for these wage increases. If prices increase, the cost of living will also increase for everyone that requires that particular good or service. However since the minimum wage increase would effect all companies regardless of the sector (ie whether the company provides a necessity or just a luxury), this will increase the cost of living for everyone. If a person's current wage makes it difficult to make ends meet, increasing prices will once again adversely affect those individuals. Additionally it hurts even more so those that do not work (eg those that are temporarily unemployed, the elderly who are on a fixed income, those people disabled that cannot work, children that are too young to work (the family of the child would cover those additional costs for the kids, but would decrease the power of the family's dollar), or even those that are just lazy and do not work), since in addition to the higher cost of living, they may not get an increase in the amount of money they receive (some COLA increases for public assistance is tied to the Consumer Price Index which does not take into account increases in food, fuel, and some other commodities because of their volatility and yet are the precise items that would effect an average person's actual cost of living).
And for those that like to use class envy as a reason for a minimum wage hike, you are first having to make an assumption which then must be ruled out for the minimum wage increase to work in the way that you imagine it should. The argument goes like this... There will be some statistic showing how much the highest CEOs are being paid and the divide between those executives versus those making minimum wage. They will then conclude that this is unfair and that the executive could afford to fork over some of their salary to pay the minimum wage workers more money. However this makes no sense when you analyze the situation and bring light to that assumption that I had mentioned earlier. The assumption is that the executives with the high salary are so greedy that they are making their money on the backs of the minimum wage earners without any respect to their workers' worth / value to the company. But if that assumption is true, then with the minimum wage increase, wouldn't it make more sense that those CEOs still remain greedy and would use other tactics like cutting on people's hours, increasing prices, etc. so that their salary wouldn't go down; for you'd have to imagine that those CEOs "magically" have a 180-degree change of heart and become altruistic for them to agree to use their high salary to pay off the minimum wage increase.
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I don't know how you can say that the minimum wage is high enough. People are struggling to keep their heads above water. At $7.25 an hour, it is better than it was in the 1980's when the minimum wage was $3.10 an hour and then raised to $3.35 an hour. In the 1990's, it was raised to $4.25 an hour. I have made $3.10 an hour, $3.35 an hour, and got a job where I was paid $4.95 an hour (70 cents above minimum wage). I then was paid $5.15 an hour before being paid $461.53 for 70 hours bi-weekly. People need more money now to survive on and, unless you have been in the shoes of a person who have worked for minimum wage, you will never understand what it is to actually say your head has been above water when you have struggled for so long to survive. ??? ??? ??? :thumbsup: :rainbow:
The minimum wage is a joke! There is no way a family can live on minimum wage, it needs to be around $12.00 an hour at least in most states.
These (and a few before them) are the answer I would expect---"Waa! Waa! :crybaby2: 'cost-of-living!'" :bs: Who do you think SETS the "cost of living"? Is THAT done by some 'outside of the marketplace'-entity? No! then why should another 'outside of the marketplace'-entity react to it?
If the government does anything, they should make it ILLEGAL for 'producers to offer products at unit-prices that their employees cannot afford' (obviously the law would have different wording, but that would be the effect)!
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It's fine where it is.
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What do Republicans think?
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Heres my view on the subject if the minimum wage gets to high jobs have to ether lay off or lessen hours for the common worker (witch the US is at right now) but if its to low there will be to much hours and not enuf pay to get in the day. :cat:
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Heres my view on the subject if the minimum wage gets to high jobs have to ether lay off or lessen hours for the common worker (witch the US is at right now) but if its to low there will be to much hours and not enuf pay to get in the day. :cat:
So where is the agreement (between 'how much people will work-for' and 'how much employers wanna pay them') found? Ideally, it should be 'at the opening interview' (or before, the person finding the job-offer's wage either enough or not enough, or the employer finding the asked waged either too much or just right),
but too often it comes down to 'the worker needs whatever the employer is offering' (or maybe 'the employer needs workers, whatever they ask,' but it seems like there are TOO MANY available workers for the employer to be so desperate). And the desperate one is ensnared in a "contract" with no respect to 'how much more their service is actually worth.'
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The current minimum wage will never be high enough. Thats why the call it the minimum wage.
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:) Raising the minimum wage only decreases the number of available jobs. If it actually worked, then why not set it at $25/hour and the un-employment crisis would be solved. Minimum wage was designed for "entry level, non skilled, " employees until they could acquire skills and education that would make the employee more valuable.
I told my boss years ago, I wanted to make 75,000/year. His answer was I needed to be worth 75,000/year before he could pay me what I am worth.
My solution is to let the minimum wage rules expire and let the production of the employee set the wage.
The last thing we need is the Government trying to make it fair for everyone. Life is not fair. Never has been and never will be. :)
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If you are working for minimum wage are you REALLY adding anything to society?
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The current minimum wage will never be high enough. Thats why the call it the minimum wage.
Perhaps the question ought to be 'is the minimum-wage what the least-qualified American worker SHOULD be worth?'
My solution is to let the minimum wage rules expire and let the production of the employee set the wage.
The last thing we need is the Government trying to make it fair for everyone. Life is not fair. Never has been and never will be. :)
'Government making everything fair for everyone' ... that's another way of saying "Socialism." In a "Free-Market" Economy, it's fair because 'we' (the buyers & sellers) MAKE it fair!
If you are working for minimum wage are you REALLY adding anything to society?
What do you think "society" is?
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I agree with tfw6693: "The last thing we need is the Government trying to make it fair for everyone. Life is not fair. Never has been and never will be." :) Those are words we all need to live by.
I don't want the government to raise the minimum wage because I would probably lose my job.
I have a small pension and an equally small Social Security income but I still had to get a job to have enough to live on. Obamacare is killing jobs anyway, so another increase in the debt would probably be disastrous. Quien sabe? ???
:fish:
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the minimum wage is definitely not high enough for a family to maintain a standard of living for America to claim to be one of the richest countries in the world.
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the minimum wage is definitely not high enough for a family to maintain a standard of living for America to claim to be one of the richest countries in the world.
But that's not the wage's fault; it's the greedy price-setters who don't believe that the other price-setters will follow suit if they set the prices with profits that they can only afford if everyone else shrinks their profits!
How can we convince ALL the price-setters to set their profits low at-one-time?
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I believe minimum wage is not high enough and I am so tired of struggling.
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the minimum wage is definitely not high enough for a family to maintain a standard of living for America to claim to be one of the richest countries in the world.
But that's not the wage's fault; it's the greedy price-setters who don't believe that the other price-setters will follow suit if they set the prices with profits that they can only afford if everyone else shrinks their profits!
How can we convince ALL the price-setters to set their profits low at-one-time?
One way to do this would be to get the government out of the marketplace! The problem with what you're suggesting is that there are already laws on the books that prevent business from setting their prices too low, as this might be too difficult for competitors to keep up with low prices. So even if a company would have been able to lower their prices because of some novel innovation that allows their workers to be more productive, they have to be careful that the amount they lower prices doesn't make it seem like predatory pricing. We are too worried about the possibility of a monopoly developing and that the company would price-gouge the public once they have attained a monopoly, that we sometimes hurt ourselves in the process... There is such a thing as efficiencies in quantity. If a company can produce as many widgets as they want, they may be able to purchase a machine, software, etc. that can speed up their process allowing them to sell more widgets at a lower price. The cost of that new equipment could get absorbed into the cost of the millions of widgets much more easily without effecting the price so much. However if the government decides that a company making millions of widgets has now monopolized the marketplace and requires the company to be broken up into small companies, now the cost of that new piece of equipment can only be spread over the fewer widgets they are now producing, thereby raising the price of each widget. In fact, if production is stymied too much by government intervention, it may make that new piece of equipment cost-prohibitive and therefore even though the product could be made and sold more cheaply, the government involvement is making everything more expensive than it really needs to be.
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Minimum wage should not be the government's job. The wage should be dictated by the private companies. The lower wage jobs are good for people to get started in the workplace and learn how to be dependable and responsible. Then they can move on to better paying jobs.
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Definitely don't think it's enough. It should be enough to live off of. With how hard it is to get a good job even with college degree nowadays, people should be able to live off of minimum wage. Take some money from the bigwigs that make $80/ hr.
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I think minimun wage should be at least 13.99 hr. I mean that will help economy.
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No, I think they should raise it to $10/hr. in every state, not just certain states or companies choosing to pay that as a starting salary.
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minimum isn't high enough
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No I don't think it is high enough. It's not enough because of the cost of living. However, I'm scared that raising it will lower jobs or get people laid off. I'm also a little scared of what it will do to people who are making more than the minimum wage.
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If I am paying it, it's too high, if I am trying to live on it, it is too low, so it depends on what you do...
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There should be no mandated minimum wage. Those that think it is to low fail to understand that when it has been increased, the cost of everything rises and most times actually reduces the buying power of the increase. It is a never ending cycle of idiocy that only serves the politician's need to pander to public.
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No and the only people who think so are too privileged to have to worry about it. No one is advocating for minimum wage jobs to be considered prestigious careers. People are not asking to be paid enough to fly around the world and buy designer clothes. People seriously just want to be able to SURVIVE. You'd need 2 or 3 jobs just to make it. I get the concern about inflation what people don't understand is that wages have not increased in proportion to inflation. Look at the numbers.
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OHHH but the American Dream im sure will fix it..................
Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pardon my sarcasm...just like the nose on our face?So obvious!!
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I get the concern about inflation what people don't understand is that wages have not increased in proportion to inflation. Look at the numbers.
If the minimum wage was adjusted for inflation since it was introduced in 1938, the minimum wage would be $4.19.
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I think no. IF the government is going to set a minimum wage for adults, it should be a wage that will allow someone to live with the basic necessities met. I thin the minimum wage for adults should be higher than for kids 18 and under.
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This is a tough subject. I feel like everyone should be able to live off of miminum wage but at the same time, there are ways to ensure that you better yourself and get a better job.
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The going wage, like most things, would be much higher IF, American
workers were not competing with illegal workers.
It is a matter of supply and demand.
Remove 6, 8, 10 million or even more illegals from the market place AND
watch the wage sky rocket.
Enforce our immigration laws, as our prez is sworn to do.
Jail any and all employers who hire illegals.......especially if they pretend
to check obvious false work papers.
Do NOT give in to the cry for immigration reform.....enforce the laws we have now!
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the cost of living fluctuates week to week and month to month..but it is only figured once a fiscal year. 2 weeks ago gas was 349 and now it is 3.99. last month i was paying 1.29 for eggs and today i paid 2.19...it is hard to make it on minimum wage unless there are 2 incomes
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what is the minimum wage now?
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Hell no! At the current rate, working one hour only gets you enough for 2 gallons of milk. If the cost of produce and other life neccesaties go up, then so should the minimum wage!
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I think the politicians should have to live on minimum wage to show them that is is not enough...
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Yes . If you keep raising it everything is going to become ridiculous in price. If you want more money go to college
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It's unfortunate how few people know about economics and history...
The latest buzz words on this topic is having a "living wage" instead of a "minimum wage". A living wage is a wage at which a person not only can survive, but also includes the cost other "necessities" that aren't entirely needed to live like transportation, insurance, retirement funding, education, etc. In essence, those supporting this want everyone to be paid according to what they need. In exchange, that person will work to their fullest ability to perform their work. In other words:
From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.
Which is the slogan that a famous economist used to describe his theory.... Several countries later tried to adopt Karl Marx's economic theory. In order to effect such a social change, they needed to set up a strict police state in order to govern such things as placing what sector each person was to work in (so as to ensure that each person's abilities are utilized to their fullest potential), what goods and services are produced, how much money each person was paid, how hard each person worked, etc.
Years later, these countries have been shown to be much weak economically speaking than countries that hold freedom and capitalism in higher esteem, and was one of the major driving forces that caused the collapse of the Soviet Union. Such a system tends to stifle innovation, risk-taking, personal betterment, and general motivation. If the person working next to you gets paid the same amount as you regardless of how efficient you are or whether you create a new process that allows you to create more product, you aren't incentivized to do better. In fact you would probably not even risk trying out that new process you think might increase your production, for if that innovation failed you will be penalized for not meeting production expectations which may include possible jail time.
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In the first place there should be no minimum wage as employees should be paid what their employer believes they are worth. The higher the minimum wage the fewer people there will be working as they will be replaced by technology.
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This is an issue that is debated even in the economic theory world. I don't think there is one right answer. Too many factors like price ceilings/floors, inflation, taxes, etc. are in play. Basically, our economy is in a disastrous state and raising or lowering the minimum wage alone will not fix it. The rate is there to keep employers from cheating employees out of fair pay. It is not meant to be enough to survive on in the long term (in my opinion). The important thing to remember is some pay is better than no pay!
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Heck No! $15 would be so much more fair... :angel11:
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No. The cost of living keeps getting more bothersome these days. It socks having to struggle to get by every month even with a 2 income household. Add a child to the mix and it's nearly impossible to catch up!
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If a person working for minimum wage cannot live above the poverty level, then it is not high enough.
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If a person working for minimum wage cannot live above the poverty level, then it is not high enough.
If you worked full-time for a year at the federal minimum wage, your earnings would be $15,080, which is well above the federal poverty line of $11,670.
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I say yes, yes it is ... no matter how low it is. If it's below the current cost-of-living, it's THE PRICE-SETTERS who need to adjust! :moneymouth:
(added Today (1-30) after 11:42:58 am ) Tell me what you think about THAT solution!
If the wage goes up, so does everything else. It is just a vicious cycle. I don't see the Middle Class winning this one. Too bad Corporate America has to be so greedy. Everyone loses!
BMaston12
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What about the small business owner...? I own a very small grocery store that I am lucky to pay all the bills within. I have been in business for 1 year and 2 months and have worked the entire store by myself for 7 days a week for 1 year and 2 months except for Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's Day, Labor Day and partial days on my 2 children's birthdays, Christmas Eve, and New Year's Eve. I would absolutely love to hire an employee to give my 67 hour a week self a break however, even to pay an employee minimum wage....which they are more than likely going to COMPLAIN about I would have to pay for Workman's Comprehension just to have that employee whether they use it or not. This increases my already ridiculous insurance to nearly twice as much in case this unskilled, uneducated employee hurts themselves...so what do you do? Hire someone who 'deserves more than minimum wage'...and then wonder how I am going to pay the light bill. I don't know about whether it is high enough but from a potential employer's stand point it is plenty high enough because it costs a business to even have employees and employees who are just starting out do not know enough to make much more than minimum wage until they are skilled at that (or any) job. This is my opinion from a business owners perspective.
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What about the small business owner...? I own a very small grocery store that I am lucky to pay all the bills within. I have been in business for 1 year and 2 months and have worked the entire store by myself for 7 days a week for 1 year and 2 months except for Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's Day, Labor Day and partial days on my 2 children's birthdays, Christmas Eve, and New Year's Eve. I would absolutely love to hire an employee to give my 67 hour a week self a break however, even to pay an employee minimum wage....which they are more than likely going to COMPLAIN about I would have to pay for Workman's Comprehension just to have that employee whether they use it or not. This increases my already ridiculous insurance to nearly twice as much in case this unskilled, uneducated employee hurts themselves...so what do you do? Hire someone who 'deserves more than minimum wage'...and then wonder how I am going to pay the light bill. I don't know about whether it is high enough but from a potential employer's stand point it is plenty high enough because it costs a business to even have employees and employees who are just starting out do not know enough to make much more than minimum wage until they are skilled at that (or any) job. This is my opinion from a business owners perspective.
You are self employed therefore, you know, or should have known
when you started that it would me much more than a full time
job. You made a choice. You have the satisfaction of working
for yourself. Good for you. You could be working for someone
else at minimum wage.
Minimum wage, as we all know, is never going to be enough.
It still keeps you at poverty level.
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Nadette I agree with you to a certain extent because when I was making minimum wage (or close to) I didn't think it was enough and I said in my post I don't know if it is high enough or not but I also said from a business owner's perspective it is because it is one thing if you are making minimum wage at Wal-Mart or McDonald's or places along those lines; but I hear all of the time, "Well why don't you JUST hire someone." Trust me I would love to, but for very small businesses you almost can't afford to hire someone with all of the state's depts. regulations and people that never own their own small business, never understand this. I was simply saying from a business owner's perspective it is high enough because after I pay for insurance and the match for Social Security (which employees do not even realize an employer is responsible for) and everything else that's required I can't even afford that employee at minimum wage. Just a different perspective! ;)
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leave it alone everytime its raised then my grocery bill goes up.. :pumpkin:
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Nadette I agree with you to a certain extent because when I was making minimum wage (or close to) I didn't think it was enough and I said in my post I don't know if it is high enough or not but I also said from a business owner's perspective it is because it is one thing if you are making minimum wage at Wal-Mart or McDonald's or places along those lines; but I hear all of the time, "Well why don't you JUST hire someone." Trust me I would love to, but for very small businesses you almost can't afford to hire someone with all of the state's depts. regulations and people that never own their own small business, never understand this. I was simply saying from a business owner's perspective it is high enough because after I pay for insurance and the match for Social Security (which employees do not even realize an employer is responsible for) and everything else that's required I can't even afford that employee at minimum wage. Just a different perspective! ;)
I got you. I know that a small business cannot afford to hire personnel
for all the reasons you mention. I am very well aware of it.
I think when the issue of minimum wage is raised, those politicians
do not have you in mind. But we agree that Walmart or Mc Donald
could do better. In your situation, (and I have seen it), it takes
a all family to be involved. I know it is not easy, but you work
for yourself and that is a plus.
Have a great day.
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I believe minimum wage is high enough for students. ie; high school first time job students. However for those that go from job to job or can't find work because of criminal backgrounds, single parents who were making it by there skin of there teeth in a dual income... than no it's not enough. However if people stuck with emploment the min slowly climbs. As do the ranks of a position.
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It's not wages that matter it's inflation that's out of control. Thing don't have to be so expensive today if we made it easier for people to get the necessary things in such as Food, shelter and medical help.
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I think the folks who voted it in need to live on it and it would show them that it is NOT ENOUGH...
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I think the folks who voted it in need to live on it and it would show them that it is NOT ENOUGH...
Those aren't the people who have to pay the wages, so you're ignoring another important perspective.