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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Elizabethar on August 27, 2009, 09:10:06 pm
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I'm sorry I don't, What has he done so far???
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:) Yes, I believe in anyone who can solve our financial and economic problems.
Yes, I believe we all need to change to solve our own problems.
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
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When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker. People who are bashing him have not given him ample time to "fix" any of our problems. He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity! It will take much more than 7 months to right the wrongs of more than 8 years! Patients is a virtue!
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If you believe you can do a better job why don't you run for office. I'm sure you can get lots of people to believe in you.
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The Obama Deception HQ Full length version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
This documentary explains how much of a Puppet he is.
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Have you forgotton 9-11 just 8 months+ into Bush's 1st year? Obama isn't waiting for his 1st disaster, He is going to create 1.
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Not sure what you call use full ? As far as spending our money he is doing a great job <not> The only reason the economy has picked up any is because Bush pumped $700 billion into it, as of now Obama's has only gotten 10 percent of his pallout money into it.. Only reason he has not had more money go into it is because we can not print it fast enough !!! Thank someone for that...
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Have you forgotton 9-11 just 8 months+ into Bush's 1st year? Obama isn't waiting for his 1st disaster, He is going to create 1.
Are you saying Bush planned and executed 9/11?
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Have you forgotton 9-11 just 8 months+ into Bush's 1st year? Obama isn't waiting for his 1st disaster, He is going to create 1.
Not seeing your point.
Either way, if you really think the President has this crazy power to destroy everything you should go take a few more political science classes.
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No.
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No, he doesn't exist. He's a figment of everyone's imagination.
If you don't believe in him he can't hurt you!!!
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No, he doesn't exist. He's a figment of everyone's imagination.
If you don't believe in him he can't hurt you!!!
This was my first thought :P
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obama sucks
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Have you forgotton 9-11 just 8 months+ into Bush's 1st year? Obama isn't waiting for his 1st disaster, He is going to create 1.
Not seeing your point.
Either way, if you really think the President has this crazy power to destroy everything you should go take a few more political science classes.
nobody said the president has power to destroy everything...he just has a role to act like the guy who is doing it
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It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Have you forgotton 9-11 just 8 months+ into Bush's 1st year? Obama isn't waiting for his 1st disaster, He is going to create 1.
Not seeing your point.
Either way, if you really think the President has this crazy power to destroy everything you should go take a few more political science classes.
nobody said the president has power to destroy everything...he just has a role to act like the guy who is doing it
When somebody tells me "Obama isn't waiting for a disaster, he's going to create his own," it implies they believe he actually has this unlimited power to create global or national disasters in the snap of a finger...
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yeah Obama wouldnt be the one who creates any sort of terror, it would be bigger than him, he would probably just be some symbolic or otherwise psychologically strategic political figure to help control the population. For example Bush got all the right wing cowboy gun toting and often racist individuals all rallying for the US and more war... and those leftwing who want to work more domestically and rally behind Obama the left symbol of today, are against war. That was one of the main things voting him in... if he "has no choice" after some sort of attack, surely he will get much support from the 'left' as well which is a large amount who did not support before... so its in a way just a different 'market' they are appealing to for the next few years.. the agenda is the same in the long run, sure a few fringe issues or lesser important things like Gay Marriage may differ among the candidates for good debate and something to watch on tv during election time, but the real issues like abolishing the fed or changing monetary system in ANY way, are never discussed.
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I used 2 but now I dont :(
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Did anyone see the magazine featuring Michelle Obama giving gardening tips? I am so glad we have time to swap gardening tips while our fellow countrymen are starving, losing their jobs, losing their homes, and losing their life savings! Maybe she was trying to avert our attention somewhere other than the hardships were are facing. Maybe she was hinting that we should all start gardens to help feed our neighbors. Maybe she was telling us to start gardening because soon all of the food we buy will be too expensive for any of us to afford. Either way, I though this article was irrelevant in this country's desperate time of need. Here I thought she was an educated woman, but the only thing she could interview about was gardening? How about you get out of that garden and start digging into your bank personal account to help feed the homeless! Any of us can look up on the internet gardening tips if we wanted them!
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Not so much almost a year later.
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I want to, but I just can't. I don't see any real proof that I should trust the guy. He hasn't fixed anything. He hasn't gotten anywhere with the health crisis. As far as the bail out plan goes, I don't think it was executed right. The people should have been given vouchers to pay to the banks that they owe money to for mortgage and credit-that way it would have actually HELPED the people and the banks would have gotten the moeny too!
Nope-I can't say I like where this is going.
On the other hand, I have to say that there is NO WAY I would want that job! Too many people expecting too much out of you-and you actually have an obligation to give it! He has a tough job and he's handling it well as a person, but I don't like the decisions he's making.
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Very well put! I agree wholeheartedly!
"On the other hand, I have to say that there is NO WAY I would want that job! Too many people expecting too much out of you-and you actually have an obligation to give it! He has a tough job and he's handling it well as a person, but I don't like the decisions he's making."
It is much easier to judge from the outside looking in!
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i don't personally believe in him, no.
but i DO believe that he still has plenty of time to prove me wrong.
we'll just have to see.
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If the president was a real man... he would not be taking a fricking vacation while other men fight a war. If I was there, I would truly want to end the war that people are living and dying through, so I would be sure not to rest until I get them out.. that means if they have a mission to do, I would get it carried out immediately to bring them home... or else just bring them home... I wouldnt be wasting a single day on 'vacation' while they were dying... each day I took vacation could mean more deaths, and even ONE death over my vacation wouldnt be acceptable....
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believe? no... but i hope he does well, just for the sake of our country
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I don't know enough about the guy to feel confident to make a judgment. I just hope all goes well.
Poor guy, he's got so much pressure on him.
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No. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but now I believe he is just going to get us deeper in debt and cost us even more by the end of his term. I could be wrong, but as of right now I don't think he knows what he is doing. :dontknow:
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If the president was a real man... he would not be taking a fricking vacation while other men fight a war. If I was there, I would truly want to end the war that people are living and dying through, so I would be sure not to rest until I get them out.. that means if they have a mission to do, I would get it carried out immediately to bring them home... or else just bring them home... I wouldnt be wasting a single day on 'vacation' while they were dying... each day I took vacation could mean more deaths, and even ONE death over my vacation wouldnt be acceptable....
He's not Eisenhower. He's not sitting around a table drawing up battle plans.
His daily involvement has nothing to do with a single U.S. casualty or lack thereof.
And if you think burning yourself out is the most effective way to operate a command position, you're wrong. That makes your entire overall effort of poorer quality.
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No. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but now I believe he is just going to get us deeper in debt and cost us even more by the end of his term. I could be wrong, but as of right now I don't think he knows what he is doing. :dontknow:
Government debt has little bearing on anything. Consumer debt is the problem. The government has the capability to get itself out of debt fairly easily if it chooses that course of action; consumers do not have this capability.
Never mind that the US government has been in debt almost its entire existence, and we've accomplished plenty in the past decades or centuries we've been in debt.
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I don't believe in our present president. I think he is to quick to spend our money and make decisions for our lives.
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nope i have no faith in him as a president whatsoever i did not vote for him anyway
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Do I like Obama? I think hes doing a good job, and will continue to lead us into the right direction. I know most people I speak to do not. But seeing all he has done in the short time he has been in office, it is hard to deny the good things he has done.
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If the president was a real man... he would not be taking a fricking vacation while other men fight a war. If I was there, I would truly want to end the war that people are living and dying through, so I would be sure not to rest until I get them out.. that means if they have a mission to do, I would get it carried out immediately to bring them home... or else just bring them home... I wouldnt be wasting a single day on 'vacation' while they were dying... each day I took vacation could mean more deaths, and even ONE death over my vacation wouldnt be acceptable....
He's not Eisenhower. He's not sitting around a table drawing up battle plans.
His daily involvement has nothing to do with a single U.S. casualty or lack thereof.
And if you think burning yourself out is the most effective way to operate a command position, you're wrong. That makes your entire overall effort of poorer quality.
dont tell me about burning out, there are people who are on call 24 hours a day for years haha. Then there are firemen, emergency workers etc... then there is those in the war... Think about the troops? When was their last vacation? some have been in the middle east over 4 years without a 'vacation'. You cant tell me that Obama has a more stressful job than those seeing their buddy blown away in front of them and waiting for the next letter from their wife of husband.... Obama has not even been in office a year yet!!... and your right he doesnt sit around drawing out plans, but he should be making sure those who need to be drawing out plans, are doing so! He is not called the commander and chief for no reason.. if he was "real" and about getting our family members out of the war, he would do his job, Im not asking him to burn out, Im just asking him to not take a damn vacation in the middle of a war before working even a year, while servicemen die and get no releif. Its really not a lot to ask right? He has the power to make changes, thats why he bragged about it in his campaign?!... and thats why he promised he would bring the troops home from IRAQ etc.. because he has the power right and wants 'change'? So why dont he work on that instead of going on vacation? thats a legitimate question I think... maybe he will talk about it more after the vacation is over, if he is not busy meddling in local police affairs and inviting people over for beer while the unemployment rate continues to rise, war and economy continue to get worse...
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I believe in him, he exists.
Do I believe anything he says? No, he's a politician.
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:angel11:
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Off hand I think he is doing a good job, considering what he has to work with. No one president is an end all though. (good or bad)
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Do I beleave in Obama? Well, I beleave he exists.. and I beleave he likes to spend money, but I don't beleave he's doing anything good for this country.
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Do I beleave in Obama? Well, I beleave he exists.. and I beleave he likes to spend money, but I don't beleave he's doing anything good for this country.
Elaborate on what he's doing wrong (anybody who has said this exact statement feel free to chime in as well).
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He is a joke to this country
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I believe in Obama. I think he is doing an excellent job so far. It will take time to get things running smoothly, but I know he can do it. He is a great leader for our nation.
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Do I beleave in Obama? Well, I beleave he exists.. and I beleave he likes to spend money, but I don't beleave he's doing anything good for this country.
Elaborate on what he's doing wrong (anybody who has said this exact statement feel free to chime in as well).
I already typed a few examples... and you are ignoring the Obama Deception documentary also..
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I don't think Obama deserves to be president...
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The following is a very conservative post. If you aren't conservative, please read with an open mind. If, afterwards, you feel like arguing with me, by all means enjoy yourself. I like to argue. Challenge the points established. Present information from your side of the argument. However, understand that I don't take unsupported evidence as final, either.
Elaborate on what he's doing wrong (anybody who has said this exact statement feel free to chime in as well).
Gladly.
Yes, I believe we all need to change to solve our own problems.
True. We do need to change.
Now, I started out arguing with all of you, but, in the midst of finding sources, I found this article to be more... final.
I had a URL here, but I decided to read the forum rules and wonder if it's allowed to post links to references in an argument... It is a download of a pdf file, but I'm going to be safe. Run a google search. "USCA Barack Obama Inherit" ... The first item, it's a pdf, is the article.
The following is a group of quotes and responses that I was going to use in my argument. Personally, I find them... quotable, if that's a good enough description.
It's been 6-7 months. Very few President's have done anything useful in their first year of Presidency.
Yes, it does take a while to do something useful... to build something. Look how quickly President Obama has knocked it down.
He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity!
Where did you learn this? How has he been denied an opportunity? The only people with the power to deny him anything are Congress members, and almost the entire Congress is of the Democratic party. No, he hasn't been denied any opportunity.
Either way, if you really think the President has this crazy power to destroy everything you should go take a few more political science classes.
The entire government is working perfectly together. Explain to me what they can't do to our country.
When somebody tells me "Obama isn't waiting for a disaster, he's going to create his own," it implies they believe he actually has this unlimited power to create global or national disasters in the snap of a finger...
The collapse of a superpower with economic influence on the entire world... That's a global disaster. Thankfully, it's taken about a year for it to work.
if he "has no choice" after some sort of attack,
The Congress, mostly of the Democratic Party at the time, was completely for an attack against terrorism. It's their decision whether or not we go to war. The president only gets to ask them if we can. Only now, when the people are anti-war are Democrats saying things like "I never knew" to keep themselves favorable... They knew.
Government debt has little bearing on anything. Consumer debt is the problem. The government has the capability to get itself out of debt fairly easily if it chooses that course of action; consumers do not have this capability.
Government debt is a bad thing. China, and other nations, want their money back. We can't just keep borrowing forever. Now, with consumer debt so high, the government doesn't have an easy way to get out of debt, since taxing us isn't very effective, and that debt turns to inflation, meaning our money is worth less to other nations, so we need to pay them more dollars. Explain.
Do I like Obama? I think hes doing a good job, and will continue to lead us into the right direction. I know most people I speak to do not. But seeing all he has done in the short time he has been in office, it is hard to deny the good things he has done.
Explain to me. What good has he done?
Thank you Elizabethar.
Having re-read this post, I feel as though it looks like I'm specifically targeting you, liljp617... I'm not. You just post the most.
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Yes, it does take a while to do something useful... to build something. Look how quickly President Obama has knocked it down.
What did he knock down? You truly believe the economic downturn/recession started in January 2009? You truly think the recession was brought on by the Obama Administration?
What has been knocked down solely by this administration?
The entire government is working perfectly together. Explain to me what they can't do to our country.
1. Define perfectly, please.
2. Who is they?
3. The President does not have untapped power to do whatever he wants. As I'm sure you're aware, there are very simple checks and balances on his powers as President. There are a number of things the President can't do. It would take a year to type them out here; go read the Constitution if you want a list of what the President can do. Anything that the President/Executive Branch has the power to do is written in the Constitution; if it's not in the Constitution then it cannot be carried out legally by the Executive Branch.
The collapse of a superpower with economic influence on the entire world... That's a global disaster. Thankfully, it's taken about a year for it to work.
Again, if you really think the downturn and recession we've been experiencing started in January you should take another glance at the facts.
We've had dozens and dozens of recessions. They're not rare. They're part of the capitalist economic system. And not a one, in history, has been caused by a single individual in a position of power.
Government debt is a bad thing. China, and other nations, want their money back. We can't just keep borrowing forever. Now, with consumer debt so high, the government doesn't have an easy way to get out of debt, since taxing us isn't very effective, and that debt turns to inflation, meaning our money is worth less to other nations, so we need to pay them more dollars. Explain.
I didn't say it wasn't a bad thing, I said it wasn't the problem. As in, government debt is not the reason the global economy went down the hole. That said, there's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much. In reality they're not too related.
For example, currently the national debt is 66% of GDP. At the end of WWII it was 120% of GDP. It remained at/above 60% of GDP throughout the 1950s and 60s. I think we can agree that the 50s were quite a prosperous time for the US economy, which in turn led to the even more economically prosperous 60s. Yet our debt relative to GDP was quite similar to what it is currently.
As of January 2009, 31% of the US federal debt is owned by the US private sector (firms and citizens). 41% of the US federal debt is owned by...the US government. 29% is owned by foreign governments (with China gradually purchasing less US debt and Japan gradually purchasing more US debt). It's not as if that gigantic number we see labeled "US Federal Debt" is all owed foreign countries; only a fraction is and it would hurt them to immediately pull out of these investments. The situation of US debt is not nearly as grave as it is portrayed by the media.
There are numerous ways the US can cut down its debt by "creating" money, somewhat related to how banks "create" money. Selling bonds, changing the reserves ratio, taxing, fractional-reserve banking, the multiplier effect, etc. *It should be noted that when one says the government creates money, it doesn't mean somebody is sitting at a printing press shooting out dollar bills.*
It's hard to take "alarm cries" of inflation seriously given the past year or so. Everybody was screaming about how much inflation there would be if the stimulus plan was passed. And yet there is NONE.
Let's assume there is, however, in the near future (some are calling for it in late 09, early 2010, but we'll see). With inflation, the value of our dollar decreases. Depending on how much this occurs, it's a good or a bad thing.
In simple terms, if there is a "little" inflation, it prompts people to invest more rather than keep their money "in their mattress." This in turn creates more money for the banks, in turn allowing them to make more loans. If more loans are made, more people are purchasing homes, starting businesses, buying cars, etc. In addition, if our dollar is worth less, more US goods will be purchased abroad, tourists would make the US their destination, and so on.
If "a lot" of inflation occurs, it pushes people away out of economy-driving investments and into inflation-proofing investments (gold, collectibles, etc). For instance, if you knew inflation was going to be 12% and you were getting 10% on your investment, you might pull your money and buy gold (which does nothing for the economy).
Of course, everything is relative. One might argue that inflation reduces the value of savings; the other side of this says that it depends on the inflation rate vs the interest rate. If the interest rate is higher than inflation, the real value of savings isn't effected. One might argue that inflation makes everything more expensive and harder to afford; the other side says this is the case only if nominal wages do not keep up with the rate of inflation. So on and so forth. It's not black and white. Everything has to be taken at a relative standpoint.
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Ok here is my rant since I saw some logical flaws in the post I thought I should address. Mostly theory versus reality.
Only now, when the people are anti-war are Democrats saying things like "I never knew" to keep themselves favorable... They knew.
The democrats who had a vote on the war are recorded in public record? Do they really lie and say they never knew? I hadnt seen that one yet... haha
3. The President does not have untapped power to do whatever he wants. As I'm sure you're aware, there are very simple checks and balances on his powers as President. There are a number of things the President can't do. It would take a year to type them out here; go read the Constitution if you want a list of what the President can do. Anything that the President/Executive Branch has the power to do is written in the Constitution; if it's not in the Constitution then it cannot be carried out legally by the Executive Branch.
This is very far from reality, but looks good on paper... Can you explain the military commissions act which takes away your right to a court trial? can you explain "free speech zones" and why you cannot express free speech OUTSIDE those zones? Can you explain the patriot act and how it allows warantless search and seizure, warantless wiretapping, indefinite inprisonment without notification or right to a lawyer? How can all these bills and laws exist and you still believe the president is bound by the Constitution? They obviously have been ignoring the Constitution before 9/11 and continue to do so to this day. There are dozens of examples.
We've had dozens and dozens of recessions. They're not rare. They're part of the capitalist economic system. And not a one, in history, has been caused by a single individual in a position of power.
I didn't say it wasn't a bad thing, I said it wasn't the problem. As in, government debt is not the reason the global economy went down the hole. That said, there's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much. In reality they're not too related.
Government bailouts, flooding the market with money backed by nothing, and excessiuve spending on war, has a lot to do with the economy? Also recessions are normal, but they used to be natural, now days they are man made with the fed setting interest rates behind closed doors... flooding the economy or taking money OUT of the economy to try and balance it manually... remember that we went along fine for well over 100 years without the federal reserve in existance, and all money backed by actual substance... soon after the federal reserve began we ended up with the great depression, and you can see the constant devaluation of the dollar ever since...
$1779.93 in the year 2001 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1913.
$113.33 in the year 1913 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1776.
That's over 125 years and only 13$ change in value... then now in less than 100 years since the FED we see a 1679.93$ change in value... that is some SERIOUS inflation and devaluation of the dollar.
The Fed sounds like a good idea to some, but the history and statistics, the TRUTH of the matter, the FACTS, and what we have SEEN through time prove otherwise...
Everybody was screaming about how much inflation there would be if the stimulus plan was passed. And yet there is NONE.
are you serious? there is ALWAYS inflation with a bailout, the money is literally printed out of thin air yes (or put into bank accounts) it is not backed by anything, this is what people are referring to when they say thin air.. it is backed by nothing but air. The inflation is pure math and not something that is a 'theory'... this pattern goes on and on, more money flooded, the less the dollar is worse... Your parents bought gum for a penny, I myself bought it for a nickel, etc etc. The prices go up constantly? gas? food? all going up... even now I see them going up! Inflation is real... even with simple following the money flow, you see that the people who get the bailout get to spend it with no inflation... it sits in the big bank collecting interest... as they spend it and put it into circulation, it ends up in other local banks who have to pay interest, so they dont get as good of a deal when they have this money, it lost some value as they pay back interest... but then they pass on this loss to us, so we pay the interest as well, the highest amount.. and by the time we get it, the money is in circulation and prices of everything has gone up.. so we get the slim pickings of the money on the bottom of the tree, and the least value of that money we get... This is done by design so that the banks and those at the top are impacted the least by the inflation. All this aside, the value of the dollar has been dropping steadily for a very long time, watch the EURO price rise... this isnt just the EURO rising, this is the dollar dropping...
One might argue that inflation makes everything more expensive and harder to afford; the other side says this is the case only if nominal wages do not keep up with the rate of inflation.
This is (nearly?) always the case, as minimum wage does not go up since there is no 'specific event' of the prices being raised and it is gradual. Inflation is referred to as the "silent tax" because it happens behind the scenes and as prices go up your checks seem to get smaller.
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What did he knock down?
Pardon my grammar. I meant "look how quickly President Obama is knocking it down." Capitalism isn't completely knocked down, yet.
You truly believe the economic downturn/recession started in January 2009?
I believe that socialism caused this recession. Socialist policies started with the Community Reinvestment Act passed in Jimmy Carter's time. The article I referenced says "The sub-prime mortgage collapse was caused by the failure of socialism, not capitalism. Forcing banks to give loans to people who cannot afford to pay them back is socialism, not capitalism." I agree.
You think the recession was brought on by the Obama Administration?
No, not by himself. As I said, it started with the CRA, but President Obama has had his hand in it starting as a lawyer in ACORN filing suits against banks who refused mortgages to unqualified people. He also "suppressed efforts by President George W. Bush and Republican Congressmen to investigate and rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" as a senator.
Perfectly means... perfectly. There are no hindrances. No checks. No balances. "They" in my sentence refers to the US Government, specifically the Legislative and Executive branches, both of which are under the control of the Democratic Party as of now. The President does not have untapped power to do as he wants. However, the people who would be keeping him in check (Congress) are completely on his side. There are no checks. No balances. When the entire government of the United States decides that they want to pass socialist health care... More specifically, when the President wants to pass socialist health care, and he presents this information to Congress, and the House and Senate both approve of it, or when more than two-thirds of both the House and Senate want it, even if the President does not, then socialist health care is passed. Thankfully, many of the Democratic Party are currently in the process of realizing that they don't want to be socialist.
On a side note, making this country socialist may even be constitutional, if the elected officials, including the president and congress, decide that they want it... Maybe. I think it's legal... I'll have to look it up.
The consistent reference to January bothers me. I never said January. The article I referenced never said January. The article specifically holds seven people responsible for the recession, and it details their parts in it. Please take this as politely as possible: Did you read the article? Could you find it?
We have had recessions. I understand that. However, I never mentioned it being caused by one individual, and neither did the article I referenced.
There's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much.
I feel as though there is plenty of logic in it. In the end, the people pay the government. They tax us. When the goverment spends or borrows too much, the people pay for it in taxes. Government debt is not the reason the global economy is bad. However, that does not make government debt a good thing.
Measuring prosperity in accordance to debt is not logical. We were prosperous in those times when debt was rising because the government was accumulating debt to pay for WWII and other expenses instead of taxing us. If the people aren't getting taxed to pay for the debt, then the debt does not affect the people's prosperity. It does, however, affect the prosperity of their posterity. That is to say that somebody has to pay the bill, eventually, which brings me back to the point that government debt is a bad thing.
I apologize for having mentioned foreign countries in association with our debt. That is not one of the topics I looked up, because it was a minor point in my argument. Thank you for using statistical information in your argument. However, as I said, debt is a bad thing, no matter who the debt is owed to, because, eventually, we the people need to pay for it.
As to creating money... Selling bonds, taxing, and so on are all bad for the people's prosperity. Again, we pay for the government. They tax, etc, us for money. Which brings me back to the fact that government debt is a bad thing.
I'm going to try and explain inflation, partly to myself... Humor me. Our money is "fiat." That is to say that it's worth something because our government says it is. One dollar is worth one dollar, no matter what. They can print as many dollars as they want, and one dollar is still worth one dollar. However, the issue of inflation comes into effect when foreign countries are involved. We can't just print money, or the foreign value of the dollar drops because all of our dollars in total are worth all of our commodities, including gold, etc, together. If all of our dollars are worth 5 bricks of gold, and all of Europe's euros are worth 5 bricks of gold, then we're fine. However, if we print more dollars, and they're all still worth 5 bricks of gold, each dollar is worth less euros because there are less euros worth the same amount of gold.
That said, we haven't experienced a great deal of inflation because we haven't printed money for the stimulus plan. We borrowed it. There are no extra dollars in circulation. We simply owe a certain amount of money, with interest, to foreign countries. There will be no inflation due to the stimulus so long as we continue to borrow. However, the debt must be paid somehow. If the economy doesn't do better, and Americans don't start getting jobs so that they can pay taxes, so that the government can pay debt, the government has to pay debt another way. There must be a limit to how much money other countries will loan us before they want it back. Our government could just tax the people back into the stone age, but that's bad for the people. Every solution to government debt is bad for the people, eventually. Printing dollars is no solution, either, since we owe a certain amount of money to foreign countries... If we inflate our money to be worth .01 euros, I should think that Europe would want more dollars to be paid back in order to pay back the loan in full.
The end of your argument on inflation is perfectly agreeable. That is capitalism at its best. Hopefully, it's enough to create jobs, so that Americans have money, so that they can be taxed, so that government debt can be paid. However, with the constant and excessive spending by the current US Government, I don't see simple capitalistic solutions such as inflation increasing tourism fixing our problems.
eSine, you posted between liljp617 and me... In response to your question of my logic behind the "they knew" statement, I say that my statement was on a logical basis only. Based on the fact that they're Congress and they should have every possible piece of information on the subject on paper in front of them... or better, in their head currently known to them... I say that they know, or have access to, everything about everything when they decide what to do. Whether or not they act in the best interest of our country, whether or not they actually bothered to read the information, they know, or they should know. I apologize for the unsupported statement in my post. However, it is, again, only a logical assertion based on what should be. Perhaps they didn't know. They should have. I also apologize for not knowing who exactly "they" are. As with other minor points in my argument, I have not fully researched it. I only remember reading it somewhere. Should I be wrong in my assertion, and I mean this statement for anything I post, I would completely agree to the retraction of that statement and the removal of it as evidence in this argument.
p.s. Does anybody want to argue about the stimulus package in general? How full of nonsense it is? How it hasn't done much of any kind of "stimulating" for the economy in general? How it's nothing but paybacks to all the people who helped President Obama into office? ... I do.
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3. The President does not have untapped power to do whatever he wants. As I'm sure you're aware, there are very simple checks and balances on his powers as President. There are a number of things the President can't do. It would take a year to type them out here; go read the Constitution if you want a list of what the President can do. Anything that the President/Executive Branch has the power to do is written in the Constitution; if it's not in the Constitution then it cannot be carried out legally by the Executive Branch.
This is very far from reality, but looks good on paper... Can you explain the military commissions act which takes away your right to a court trial? can you explain "free speech zones" and why you cannot express free speech OUTSIDE those zones? Can you explain the patriot act and how it allows warantless search and seizure, warantless wiretapping, indefinite inprisonment without notification or right to a lawyer? How can all these bills and laws exist and you still believe the president is bound by the Constitution? They obviously have been ignoring the Constitution before 9/11 and continue to do so to this day. There are dozens of examples.
Key word in what was quoted being "legally." If it's not listed in the powers of the Executive Branch in the Constitution, and an official amendment is not made to the Constitution to input that power, it's illegal action.
Yes, they've been ignoring the Constitution for some time now, or they twist what it says, find loopholes, and fear monger to get their nonsense passed.
We've had dozens and dozens of recessions. They're not rare. They're part of the capitalist economic system. And not a one, in history, has been caused by a single individual in a position of power.
I didn't say it wasn't a bad thing, I said it wasn't the problem. As in, government debt is not the reason the global economy went down the hole. That said, there's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much. In reality they're not too related.
Government bailouts, flooding the market with money backed by nothing, and excessiuve spending on war, has a lot to do with the economy? Also recessions are normal, but they used to be natural, now days they are man made with the fed setting interest rates behind closed doors... flooding the economy or taking money OUT of the economy to try and balance it manually... remember that we went along fine for well over 100 years without the federal reserve in existance, and all money backed by actual substance... soon after the federal reserve began we ended up with the great depression, and you can see the constant devaluation of the dollar ever since...
$1779.93 in the year 2001 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1913.
$113.33 in the year 1913 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1776.
That's over 125 years and only 13$ change in value... then now in less than 100 years since the FED we see a 1679.93$ change in value... that is some SERIOUS inflation and devaluation of the dollar.
The Fed sounds like a good idea to some, but the history and statistics, the TRUTH of the matter, the FACTS, and what we have SEEN through time prove otherwise...
Everything is relative. Our current debt relative to our GDP is at the same level it was in the 50s and 60s, some of our most prosperous economic decades (along with some obvious noteworthy achievements as a nation). The number of recessions and economic downturns hasn't increased all that much, the severity of our recessions, on average, has not increased, and the length of our recessions has not increased. In fact, the length and severity of our downturns/recessions since 1945 have drastically decreased.
I'm not sure what you're definition of "doing fine" you're using, but from 1776 to the ratification of the Fed (1913) there were 25 recessions/depressions/panics. Many of which lasted quite long compared to more recent recessions and many of which are labeled severe. Since 1913, there have been 19 recessions/depressions/panics, which based on the data, have often been less severe and lasted shorter periods of time than those prior to 1913 (minus the obvious Great Depression).
The idea that the Fed caused the Great Depression is widely disputed among economists. It's unfair to state, as fact, that the Fed was the root cause of the Depression...there is no such fact.
Everybody was screaming about how much inflation there would be if the stimulus plan was passed. And yet there is NONE.
are you serious? there is ALWAYS inflation with a bailout, the money is literally printed out of thin air yes (or put into bank accounts) it is not backed by anything, this is what people are referring to when they say thin air.. it is backed by nothing but air. The inflation is pure math and not something that is a 'theory'... this pattern goes on and on, more money flooded, the less the dollar is worse... Your parents bought gum for a penny, I myself bought it for a nickel, etc etc. The prices go up constantly? gas? food? all going up... even now I see them going up! Inflation is real... even with simple following the money flow, you see that the people who get the bailout get to spend it with no inflation... it sits in the big bank collecting interest... as they spend it and put it into circulation, it ends up in other local banks who have to pay interest, so they dont get as good of a deal when they have this money, it lost some value as they pay back interest... but then they pass on this loss to us, so we pay the interest as well, the highest amount.. and by the time we get it, the money is in circulation and prices of everything has gone up.. so we get the slim pickings of the money on the bottom of the tree, and the least value of that money we get... This is done by design so that the banks and those at the top are impacted the least by the inflation. All this aside, the value of the dollar has been dropping steadily for a very long time, watch the EURO price rise... this isnt just the EURO rising, this is the dollar dropping...
I speak based on the data currently available. The data currently available isn't showing increased inflation since the stimulus was passed, and certainly not the hyperinflation many people were screaming for as the legislation was going through the pipes. There will likely be some inflation; I don't care to speculate how much. Of course, I'm more comfortable with some inflation than I am with deflation, which is where we were heading.
Increases in the money supply causing inflation is precisely a theory -- the quantity theory of money. A well documented theory, and one that makes sense in many respects (not so much in others). It is still a theory, however :)
Moving on, again everything is relative. You can talk about how much gum or a bottle of Coke cost 50-60 years ago, but it means nothing if you take it out of context. The one that's often used these days is the cost of stamps -- the cost of stamps has increased 10 fold since the 50s. That's quite an increase. Until you look at the fact that average household income since then has increased 31% or more.
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i have faith in him most people probably don't but you have to understand he has entered the white house at a very bad time so all we have to do is wit and see and i rather be optimistic
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the cost of stamps has increased 10 fold since the 50s. That's quite an increase. Until you look at the fact that average household income since then has increased 31% or more
Think about that a minute...the price of stamps has increased 10 fold? aka 1000% right? But our wages increased 31% so this makes it ok? haha
The debt of this country has continuously gone up and up since the federal reserve began its method of artificial rates and money based on nothing. This may just seem like a large number, but there will be a time to pay that bill, it cant just keep going up forever... We are already feeling the pain... The government will print trillions to keep a bank or GM going, but then they cut funding to schools, or talk about low resources and not enough money... why not just print it or add some zeros like they do for big business? because its not where they want their money...
When you talk about the recessions and depressions since 1913 you must realize these are not the same as before at all, these are artificial man made recessions that the federal reserve imposes by choosing to print more or less money. Before when money was based on real substance, yes there was recvessions, none as great as the great depression... these are natural and healthy, this is how a healthy economy works, money is constantly transferred back and forth so everyone benefits... its like a forest fire that clears out the forest, a recession brings a healthy economy as it bounces back. The problem with the fed is they manipulate the market 100% and CREATE depressions now days purely with the supply and setting interest rates.
Also you are issing the point when you try to point out that we make more money per household now and thats why its ok that prices go up... no this is not ok, this is the example of the valuie of the dollar dropping... When you have to earn more and pay more, even if your hours are the same (which they are not, as many people even work two jobs now days just to make it) you are now using a currency worth less. Ultimately this catches up with you... You cannot just print more money and say we are richer now... other countries frown on this, so our value goes down, trade prices go up, oil prices go up etc etc. Your currency goes down.... This is why it doesnot stay relative to your paycheck.. as prices increase, often your paycheck does not... In this economy if you get a raise at all you are one lucky MFer. Yet prices will still be going up as always...
When you basically say its not legal, but they do it anyways in regards to the constitution, dont you see how ridiculous that sounds? You cannot have an illegal law... yet thats exactly what we have... so in reality you are correct, these are illegal laws that violate the cosntitution, most dont find loopholes, they directly violate... and they are put into place and executed by all... So when you say the laws are illegal, this really is not true... because those who apply the law and make things legal, are going against the constitution, making violation of the constitution in essence legal... so I agree its illegal on paper, when it comes to reality, the patriot act IS THE LAW, and the constitution does not apply to you if they choose to apply that law to you... so you can basically throw the constitution out the window at this point, as bush says "its only a goddamn peice of paper", thats exactly how they treat it, it looks good on the wall, but the words do not apply any longer in this new age of pseudo-democracy. If Obama was any sort of a man he would have stood up on day one and revoked the patriot act and military commissions act and restored at least the basics of the constitution, undo what Bush did... then start working on better things... but he is enforcing the illegal laws that Bush put into place and extending them further... just like the war...
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It is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you. If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you. If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you. The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights. You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights. I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Do you belive in obama
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If the president was a real man... he would not be taking a fricking vacation while other men fight a war. If I was there, I would truly want to end the war that people are living and dying through, so I would be sure not to rest until I get them out.. that means if they have a mission to do, I would get it carried out immediately to bring them home... or else just bring them home... I wouldnt be wasting a single day on 'vacation' while they were dying... each day I took vacation could mean more deaths, and even ONE death over my vacation wouldnt be acceptable....
He's not Eisenhower. He's not sitting around a table drawing up battle plans.
His daily involvement has nothing to do with a single U.S. casualty or lack thereof.
And if you think burning yourself out is the most effective way to operate a command position, you're wrong. That makes your entire overall effort of poorer quality.
dont tell me about burning out, there are people who are on call 24 hours a day for years haha. Then there are firemen, emergency workers etc... then there is those in the war... Think about the troops? When was their last vacation? some have been in the middle east over 4 years without a 'vacation'. You cant tell me that Obama has a more stressful job than those seeing their buddy blown away in front of them and waiting for the next letter from their wife of husband.... Obama has not even been in office a year yet!!... and your right he doesnt sit around drawing out plans, but he should be making sure those who need to be drawing out plans, are doing so! He is not called the commander and chief for no reason.. if he was "real" and about getting our family members out of the war, he would do his job, Im not asking him to burn out, Im just asking him to not take a damn vacation in the middle of a war before working even a year, while servicemen die and get no releif. Its really not a lot to ask right? He has the power to make changes, thats why he bragged about it in his campaign?!... and thats why he promised he would bring the troops home from IRAQ etc.. because he has the power right and wants 'change'? So why dont he work on that instead of going on vacation? thats a legitimate question I think... maybe he will talk about it more after the vacation is over, if he is not busy meddling in local police affairs and inviting people over for beer while the unemployment rate continues to rise, war and economy continue to get worse...
He served the Kool-aid up to the base because that's what they wanted to hear.
I said well before he was even the nominee that he wasn't going to be pulling any more troops home than Bush.
Bush and Obama are both Imperialists, deal with it.
You're not going to find anyone that either party will support who isn't. Why do you think Paul and Kucinich were branded as nutcases? Simple, neither of them believe in empire.
Obama is not pulling troops out, so he doesn't need to spend time on it. He's not drawing up any plans, period. Obama is going to have 50,000+ troops in Afghanistan the day he leaves office(in 2016).
Everything is relative. Our current debt relative to our GDP is at the same level it was in the 50s and 60s, some of our most prosperous economic decades (along with some obvious noteworthy achievements as a nation). The number of recessions and economic downturns hasn't increased all that much, the severity of our recessions, on average, has not increased, and the length of our recessions has not increased. In fact, the length and severity of our downturns/recessions since 1945 have drastically decreased.
Yes, but we had GDP growing several times faster than new debt coming out of WWII. Now it's the opposite. We're going to a hit a very serious wall in about 15 years.
And the Fed can't print enough money to fix that one.
it is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you. If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you. If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you. The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights. You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights. I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Do you belive in obama
I'm sorry but this is pretty much crap. The difference between Obama and McCain basically amounted to a choice between increasing the debt to pay for universal healthcare and government jobs, or increasing the debt even more to reward the GOPs rich buddies. Aside from that, no major difference.
No one in office talks about throwing out Medicare or Social Security or slicing the DoD's budget. That's about 85% of government spending there.
Both parties support "big government". The difference is that Democrats want a government about 10-15% bigger than Republicans.
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It is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you. If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you. If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you. The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights. You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights. I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Do you belive in obama
Obama is not and end all. I also am not "pro" Obama. His administration or any/the administration has been and always will be responsible for US citizens. Individuals have been and always will be responsible for themselves, their children, community, etc. It is not an either or proposition based on the current administration or any administration. It always has been a mixture of both individual and government involvement. Nothing has changed here today regarding my individual rights that I am aware of. I am not saying that you yourself are upset/angry, but I have seen more and more people lately (online and offline) who just seem to upset themselves over nothing. I guess many people are afraid, angry and unsure of what to believe. Hope this adds some perspective.
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I have no faith in any man..but I do have faith in God! If you look at our previous presidents and the outcomes of their actions and choices, most of them were not very good at all. I am not going to say much because I do have a lot to say, but I do believe that IT WAS ABOUT TIME AMERICA TOOK A DIFFERENT ROUTE AND GAVE SOMEONE ELSE A CHANCE!
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When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker. People who are bashing him have not given him ample time to "fix" any of our problems. He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity! It will take much more than 7 months to right the wrongs of more than 8 years! Patients is a virtue!
I couldn't agree with you more. We elected a prudent, intelligent, pragmatic man who is doing his utmost to clean up the mess created by the idiots who so vehemently oppose his every effort to do so. These folks are so rabid that they'd rather destroy their own country than let Obama do his job. Thanks to these lizard people, we probably won't get any meaningful health care reform within our lifetime.
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havent seen sh*t yet!!
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When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker. People who are bashing him have not given him ample time to "fix" any of our problems. He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity! It will take much more than 7 months to right the wrongs of more than 8 years! Patients is a virtue!
It doesnt take any longer than a day to veto the patriot act, end of story. Ask Bush he vetoed many bills voted on even by Congress, and then threatened to keep the patriot act running strong even if congress wanted it to end, he extended it... Obama is doing the same, so he agrees with the patriot act, end of story... Your only in denial if you believe that "he needs a few more months then he will work on the patriot act" meanwhile people continue to be imprisoned without trial, tortured, and spied on illegally... but he will get to that whole freedom thing, just give him a few months to give all the big businesses their money! ha. Then maybe the patriot act... then maybe he will follow through and stop allowing the FEDS to raid state run legal medical marijuana facilities in California... the crimes are continuing, he doesnt just need to clean up the mess, he needs to NOT send more troops to afghanistan and other soil... NOT let the patriot act which is ILLEGAL continue to be enabled, the military commissions act, etc. etc.
These things dont take month to disable, Bush did it with a stroke of a pen, and so can Obama, in fact Ron Paul even promised to do it the first day! Because he knows that is a simple fact, if you look into it, most of congress felt duped as they had no time to read it, the large document was printed at 5am the morning of the intial vote! Obama when he first joined office removed Bush's ridiculous bill prohibiting stem cell research much to the delite of many... I agree with that move, why did it stop there? probably because that decision was costing the medical industry a fortune, Obama helped the medical industry out greatly (and those who may benefit from the work), a stroke of the pen in his first week and it was done.... Patriot continues 7 months later... war continues to only get worse, no real strategy visible, still no "exit plan" only empty promises... this is the reality, and its pure fantasy to live thinking "he just hasnt had time yet! give him time! " hehe
He had so much time... he had time to invite that police officer and professor over for beer and get his hands dirty with some local politics (and was demanded to apologize)
He had so much time.... he took a goddamn vacation already! WTF!
but no worries, he will get to that other freedom stuff after vaction, and beer, and working to socialize every program in the US, oh yeah right after those monkeys fly out of his butt :)
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I believe he is trying to take away our second ammendment rights... thats about all I "believe" in him...
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He seems like a nice guy. He seems determined. I just dont know how cut out he is to be president. If you look up everything hes done since hes been president almost all of it I personally thought were bad decisions. From the stimulus to the health care bill yada yada. I do think theres still a possibility he can turn it around but I think hes much more of a talker than anything.
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Think about that a minute...the price of stamps has increased 10 fold? aka 1000% right? But our wages increased 31% so this makes it ok? haha ... as prices increase, often your paycheck does not
... Seconded.
The difference is that Democrats want a government about 10-15% bigger than Republicans.
... And, currently, the Democrats want socialism. I respect a liberal capitalist, though I may disagree on points. I am not ready for the government to control my life because "They don't know any better." Regretably, I can't remember the politician who said this.
IT WAS ABOUT TIME AMERICA TOOK A DIFFERENT ROUTE AND GAVE SOMEONE ELSE A CHANCE!
In the past 20 years, the republican party has had one more term than the democratic party.
I am not going to say much because I do have a lot to say
I'd like to hear your opinion.
When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker.
I think this is incorrect.
Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.
He said that in Dover on September 12.
The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as a tax imposed by this chapter
Page 203 of the House Health Care Bill.
... I could go on with broken promises, but it doesn't help my point: We voted for a man disguised as a miracle worker.
I couldn't agree with you more. We elected a prudent, intelligent, pragmatic man who is doing his utmost to clean up the mess created by the idiots who so vehemently oppose his every effort to do so. These folks are so rabid that they'd rather destroy their own country than let Obama do his job. Thanks to these lizard people, we probably won't get any meaningful health care reform within our lifetime.
First, if nobody opposed the current government, then there would be no system of checks and balances. That makes us more of a dictatorship than a democracy. Personally, I feel as though there aren't many checks and balances in our governmental system right now because the Executive and Legislative branches are both mostly of the democratic party. Second, I vehemently oppose many of President Obama's decisions. If I had a choice between staying capitalist and changing to socialist, I would rather stay capitalist. Wanting to stay one way and not change is not destroying the country. It does not make me rabid. It is President Obama's job to serve the people. It is the people's job to tell him if they don't want what he proposes. If the people say no, they are not destroying their country. It is our job as a democratic society to oppose what we do not believe in. I am a capitalist. I do not support socialist policies, which include the current health care proposal. Therefore, it is my duty as a citizen to oppose it. This coming from a lizard man who would prefer if you kept your arguments more argument and less flame.
It doesnt take any longer than a day
Agreed! All this about President Obama "not being given a chance" is ridiculous...
:( Nobody said anything about what I said at the top of this page.
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I absolutely HATE Obama, especially as a president.
I DON'T want to become a socialist country.
I DON'T want a national healthcare program.
That and I'm willing to stand up and say most (Not all.) African Americans voted for him because he is black. It's one thing to know what he stands for and to vote for him. (I can respect that, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.) However the people who say "OH yeah, Obama is an amazing president." and I ask them if they know anything about what he actually does and they don't.
THAT IS WHAT DISAPPOINTS ME.
America is falling because of it's own ignorance.
Okay. ^_^ I'm done rambling now.
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I don't hate President Obama. He's a very good speaker. He just needs to go to another country to be the leader. I recommend Cuba or North Korea. I would recommend the USSR, but they had a rather bad run-in with the fact that socialism kills countries.
America is falling because of it's own ignorance.
Agreed. A big part of that is that the media has been paid off, so the Americans who kinda care have no clue what's actually happening. A lot of other Americans don't care at all. My neighbor knows nothing about politics. She thinks that the Health Care bill is a good thing and that it won't cost the people anything because the government will pay for it. She has no clue how our government runs, and I don't think she knows that her taxes fund the government. Neither do a lot of Americans.
There's this smaller, thankfully growing group of Americans who actually do care about what's happening. They're looking into politics, through the internet, mostly, and they don't like what they're seeing. A big problem is that the people who kinda care and the people who don't care don't really understand just how bad socialism is. They don't think that America is on the way to socialism with these new policies of Health Care and Cap-And-Trade, and it's really bad for our country because their vote counts for just as much as an informed, caring American's.
So many Americans just listened to President Obama's promises without stopping to think if it's actually possible to spend nearly a trillion dollars without taxing 95% of the people. That's an actual statistic. Obama wants to pay for everything by taxing the top 5% wealthy.
I'm glad you mentioned ignorance Evelynn.
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i dont hate obama but i dont like him nither
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No ... too date he just does not seem to be working towards the things he said he would. Anyone else think it should have been Hilary?!
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I don't hate President Obama. He's a very good speaker. He just needs to go to another country to be the leader. I recommend Cuba or North Korea. I would recommend the USSR, but they had a rather bad run-in with the fact that socialism kills countries.
America is falling because of it's own ignorance.
Agreed. A big part of that is that the media has been paid off, so the Americans who kinda care have no clue what's actually happening. A lot of other Americans don't care at all. My neighbor knows nothing about politics. She thinks that the Health Care bill is a good thing and that it won't cost the people anything because the government will pay for it. She has no clue how our government runs, and I don't think she knows that her taxes fund the government. Neither do a lot of Americans.
There's this smaller, thankfully growing group of Americans who actually do care about what's happening. They're looking into politics, through the internet, mostly, and they don't like what they're seeing. A big problem is that the people who kinda care and the people who don't care don't really understand just how bad socialism is. They don't think that America is on the way to socialism with these new policies of Health Care and Cap-And-Trade, and it's really bad for our country because their vote counts for just as much as an informed, caring American's.
For all that is good in this world, take it down a notch....we are NO WHERE NEAR a command economy and we never will be. Please knock off the ridiculous propaganda and fear mongering at least a little bit for the sake of rational discussion.
Adding a public option, as a number of developed countries have (the majority of which are ranked better than the US in quality, cost per capita, and cost relative to GDP), is not a gigantic slippery slope to the this evil, dominating government that rations toilet paper and tells you what careers you can or cannot have.
Adding a public option, forcing private health care companies to lower their costs so 25-45% of workers aren't stuck in jobs they hate simply to get health care and millions upon millions of people can actually go see a doctor is not implementing a command style economy and government akin to NK. It's not. It's not. Let me repeat: It's not. No matter how much Sean Hannity and Bill O scream....it's not.
So many Americans just listened to President Obama's promises without stopping to think if it's actually possible to spend nearly a trillion dollars without taxing 95% of the people. That's an actual statistic. Obama wants to pay for everything by taxing the top 5% wealthy.
If I recall correctly, he said 95% of people would not see an increase in their tax rates. Not that 95% of people would no longer be required to pay taxes. I'm certain he didn't say 95% of people would no longer have to pay taxes.
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I apologize for disappearing for a week... School started, and I've been busy.
and we never will be.
That bothers me. Here's an old and exceptionally cliched quote: "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." Or maybe "A journey of the thousand miles begins with a single step." One step towards government control of businesses, health care, or anything else like that is a step in the wrong direction.
You and I obviously agree that competition is the solution to the health care problems, but the government should not be the insurance provider. That's what the private sector's for. All it takes is removing the law that says you have to buy health insurance from the state you live in... I understand that Alabama almost has a monopoly running their health care, but, if the people could buy across state borders, it wouldn't be a monopoly, and it wouldn't take any government intervention.
The problem is, government is full of inefficiency, corruption, and the like. Special interests, "pork," and so on are in everything they run.
I'm certain he didn't say 95% of people would no longer have to pay taxes.
I apologize. My phrasing was off. See, that 95% is, according to him, not going to be taxed more. He's going to pay for all of his socialism by taxing 5% more. All of the taxes that everybody already pays are paying for other government functions... good and bad.
He's not going to be able to pay for all of the change by taxing that 5%. He's also not going to be able to eliminate a bunch of corruption in government programs. If there were corruption, and it were known, then it would already be removed, unless somebody somewhere were protecting it, but it's not like it'll get removed if it's already set aside for somebody's special interests... He's going to pay for all of his change by taxing everybody more. Lots more.
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bump :BangHead:
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No. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but now I believe he is just going to get us deeper in debt and cost us even more by the end of his term. I could be wrong, but as of right now I don't think he knows what he is doing. :dontknow:
Government debt has little bearing on anything. Consumer debt is the problem. The government has the capability to get itself out of debt fairly easily if it chooses that course of action; consumers do not have this capability.
Never mind that the US government has been in debt almost its entire existence, and we've accomplished plenty in the past decades or centuries we've been in debt.
The deeper in debt the government gets the deeper in debt we get. Where do you think that the government gets its money from, us the taxpayers, in which almost every dollar that they have taken from us has been wasted.
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Oh no no no, I never did and it looks like I never will. Can't wait for it to end.
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yes i do without a doubt. I voted for obama and i do not regret it. He is doing a good job at fixing the big mess that was left previously. he is a great man who is trying to accomplish great things and i appreciate him doing that for this country.
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I'm sorry I don't, What has he done so far???
:) I believe that all Presidents will have victories and failures throughout their tenure. Not one president has been totally successful at running the country in a way that has been pleasing to all. So Obama is not going to come up with a fix-it plan for America and he should not be expected to do so.
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I apologize. My phrasing was off. See, that 95% is, according to him, not going to be taxed more. He's going to pay for all of his socialism by taxing 5% more. All of the taxes that everybody already pays are paying for other government functions... good and bad.
He's not going to be able to pay for all of the change by taxing that 5%. He's also not going to be able to eliminate a bunch of corruption in government programs. If there were corruption, and it were known, then it would already be removed, unless somebody somewhere were protecting it, but it's not like it'll get removed if it's already set aside for somebody's special interests... He's going to pay for all of his change by taxing everybody more. Lots more.
He's going to bring back the taxes that the upper 5% had prior to the Bush Admin. He's not randomly pulling things out of thin air. The upper echelon of earners had an 8 year vacation tax-wise. And even if he were to increase the taxes past that? He'd hardly be the first President to go after the richest in a time of economic strife. Hell, in comparison to FDR, Obama's being nice. It makes sense: You need the money for various federal entities (not just the new Obama change stuff), and taxing the middle and lower classes is akin to fishing in a shallow bucket. He'd be a fool to overlook the untapped potential of the "rich". Not to mention, he'd be falling into that tax bracket, as well. So it's not as if he'd be sitting in a see of money à la Scrooge McDuck laughing at everyone.
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So far he has not impressed me but there is time. Hopefully he will do soemthing.
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there is proven documents proving bush had prior knowledge of 9/11 he is a traitor and should be in jail his whole familyshould be in jail and now obama the man who decideds to try and fix things by throwing more money around who do thinks going to pay for all these stimulus money our kids our grandchildren our grandchildrens children think about it you cant fix a money crisis by jsut throwing more money that we dont have at it obama is 10 times worst then any president that has ever stepped in office he is a traitor a puppet and an illegal president go look up copenhagen treaty yeah see how much yu like your good ole obama then man hasnt done *bleep* but put us deeper in a recession WAKE UP we are on the verge of the worst depression known to man
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I think that he is a joke to this country but what president hasn't been? he has sucked since his first day as president when the swine flu came about again, and made stupid decision reguarding the mexican borders and make the dumbest comments. He is not in the interest of this country, he favors the foreign countries more and that sucks.
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He is a mere mortal, no more and no less than you or I.
You said it perfectly :)
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Of course I believe in him.