FC Community
Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: 502mania on October 12, 2010, 08:55:56 pm
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
-
more posts on it later. i figure to decide or myself if the bible is realistic or not, i should at least read it first.
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
I think it is just the fact that God told them not too. They knew God told them No.
I should clarify. i meant how did they know disobeying god was evil? he told them no. but they didn't now right from wrong.
-
They didn't know right from wrong, but they were not stupid. They knew what they were told not to do and Eve let the serpent convince her that if she ate the fruit, she would be like God.
Also remember, Adam and Eve were not made perfect. God never called any of His creation perfect, He said it was good. Just because they didn't have knowledge of good and evil doesn't mean they were incapable of doing evil. The eating of the forbidden fruit was disobedience and they were shamed before God. Which is exactly what the devil wanted, when we are busy feeling ashamed of our sin we forget about how much God loves us despite it.
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
This is a place where I differ from many, but I'm not alone in this viewpoint. Eve was presented with the choice, either do not eat of the fruit of the tree and live forever or eat the fruit and know good and evil, including death. Eve made a choice for knowledge rather than immortality. I don't see it as the downfall of humanity, personally. Because Eve made the choice to eat the fruit, I have the ability to decipher and interpret and learn.
-
one question.: des god know the future? or is it as unknown to him as it is to us?
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
This is a place where I differ from many, but I'm not alone in this viewpoint. Eve was presented with the choice, either do not eat of the fruit of the tree and live forever or eat the fruit and know good and evil, including death. Eve made a choice for knowledge rather than immortality. I don't see it as the downfall of humanity, personally. Because Eve made the choice to eat the fruit, I have the ability to decipher and interpret and learn.
But we know this isn't true, because Science tells us why we die. The flesh dies, there was also bacteria then on Adam and Eve and it died, so death was already happening.
I am talking about biblical interpretation here, not Science. Whether or not the bible is true does not matter. The words were written for a reason...how you interpret them, or even if you interpret them, is up to you. Science tells us a great many things; I do not dispute this. The issue at hand is, there is a lesson to be learned from Eve's story, and everyone that has the desire to read it has the opportunity to use their logic and reasoning skills to find that lesson. If you want to debate it, that's fine. Read it first. Then understand that while I think science is wonderful, and that there are things in science that should not be disputed, but when discussing Adam and Eve, we're not discussing science, and may not even be discussing fact. We're discussing a story written in a book meant to teach lessons. Your comment is out of place here.
-
one question.: des god know the future? or is it as unknown to him as it is to us?
Yes, God knows the future. He is all-knowing! The Book of Revelations tell much about the future of events to come, too.
-
Yes Chase, God knows the future. And I think I might know why you ask this question in the particular section of the bible you are reading, because I have asked the same question. If God knew what Adam and Eve would do, why did He even create them? Why did he create man and put them in a beautiful garden, knowing they would disobey and He would have to cast them out?
This website has caused some issues here on the forum, for some reason, but I think you will find a lot of questions you have addressed there.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
This website, the page I actually linked to, addressed the specific questions I asked above.
http://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew.html
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
This is a place where I differ from many, but I'm not alone in this viewpoint. Eve was presented with the choice, either do not eat of the fruit of the tree and live forever or eat the fruit and know good and evil, including death. Eve made a choice for knowledge rather than immortality. I don't see it as the downfall of humanity, personally. Because Eve made the choice to eat the fruit, I have the ability to decipher and interpret and learn.
But we know this isn't true, because Science tells us why we die. The flesh dies, there was also bacteria then on Adam and Eve and it died,
they were Exactly like Jesus when he came to earth PERFECT, so they were definitely not stupid, we use around 2% of our brain, can you imagine how smart you would be with 100%, Hawking and Einstein would be NOTHNG. Lets see how EVE dispute Satan!!!!
2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.
ere at Genesis 3:2-4 we see she kne God told them not to eat it, she even goes as far as to paraphrase what God said to her and still partakes, generally when you can paraphrase something YOU KOW IT. She also said you would die, not go somewhe in another realm after you die, I.E. still be alive after your body is dead.
Anyway that's my take on it, at marieelissa, I personally believe God is selective, I.E> he chooses when to excerise his foresight
-
so far, i have read up to right before cain and able. but what i don't get so far is how adam and eve knew eating the fruit was evil. if they had no knowledge of good and evil to begin with, how could they know it was wrong?
This is a place where I differ from many, but I'm not alone in this viewpoint. Eve was presented with the choice, either do not eat of the fruit of the tree and live forever or eat the fruit and know good and evil, including death. Eve made a choice for knowledge rather than immortality. I don't see it as the downfall of humanity, personally. Because Eve made the choice to eat the fruit, I have the ability to decipher and interpret and learn.
But we know this isn't true, because Science tells us why we die. The flesh dies, there was also bacteria then on Adam and Eve and it died, so death was already happening.
I am talking about biblical interpretation here, not Science. Whether or not the bible is true does not matter. The words were written for a reason...how you interpret them, or even if you interpret them, is up to you. Science tells us a great many things; I do not dispute this. The issue at hand is, there is a lesson to be learned from Eve's story, and everyone that has the desire to read it has the opportunity to use their logic and reasoning skills to find that lesson. If you want to debate it, that's fine. Read it first. Then understand that while I think science is wonderful, and that there are things in science that should not be disputed, but when discussing Adam and Eve, we're not discussing science, and may not even be discussing fact. We're discussing a story written in a book meant to teach lessons. Your comment is out of place here.
What happend when she ate the fruit? Got punished with death.
That is the way you view it. Did g-d put her to death on the spot, or was it a gradual thing? And is death really a punishment? I thought you were ready for your place in heaven...I thought you cheered when 9/11 happened because you thought it was the end of times. Albus Dumbledore said it best...and I'm paraphrasing here...death is but the next great adventure.
-
Why would God make us experience death? Why not make us like the angels from the get go? I know, because since we are here not because of God but natural causes, you try to explain it. Fail.
Why are you so afraid of death? Why do you think it is such a bad thing? Without the prospect of death, are you really going to enjoy your life...knowing that one day, it will end? Death is change...its not some horrible thing brought forth by the devil (who I do not believe exists anyway). The ones who suffer from death are not the ones who die but the ones who outlive those who die. This is probably pure speculation here, but are you so afraid of death because of the hell concept?
-
Why would God make us experience death? Why not make us like the angels from the get go? I know, because since we are here not because of God but natural causes, you try to explain it. Fail.
Why are you so afraid of death? Why do you think it is such a bad thing? Without the prospect of death, are you really going to enjoy your life...knowing that one day, it will end? Death is change...its not some horrible thing brought forth by the devil (who I do not believe exists anyway). The ones who suffer from death are not the ones who die but the ones who outlive those who die. This is probably pure speculation here, but are you so afraid of death because of the hell concept?
Not afraid of death but I would rather not go through it, just like I would rather not have to get shots or cavities fixed among a lot of other things. It seems God could of done everything a lot better but chose not to...that is why I know he can't be there.
Then believe that...know it even. Find something and stick with it.
-
I see marie is channeling the spirit of queen in her responses today lol. :P
-
they were Exactly like Jesus when he came to earth PERFECT, so they were definitely not stupid, we use around 2% of our brain, can you imagine how smart you would be with 100%, Hawking and Einstein would be NOTHNG
Not true, this is false, we use 100% of our brain.
I was just reading through this and saw teflon's words above. I copied them to post exactly what you did and then saw your reply next. :thumbsup:
-
Why would God make us experience death? Why not make us like the angels from the get go? I know, because since we are here not because of God but natural causes, you try to explain it. Fail.
Why are you so afraid of death? Why do you think it is such a bad thing? Without the prospect of death, are you really going to enjoy your life...knowing that one day, it will end? Death is change...its not some horrible thing brought forth by the devil (who I do not believe exists anyway). The ones who suffer from death are not the ones who die but the ones who outlive those who die. This is probably pure speculation here, but are you so afraid of death because of the hell concept?
Not afraid of death but I would rather not go through it, just like I would rather not have to get shots or cavities fixed among a lot of other things. It seems God could of done everything a lot better but chose not to...that is why I know he can't be there.
Then believe that...know it even. Find something and stick with it.
How rude.
Marieelissa, Amy was not being rude. In fact she was trying to tell you to make a choice, instead of waffling all over the place. You owe her an apology. People who try to help you find your way, or to help you understand what your actually saying, or doing, don't deserve that kind of response.
I see marie is channeling the spirit of queen in her responses today lol. :P
::)
-
Why would God make us experience death? Why not make us like the angels from the get go? I know, because since we are here not because of God but natural causes, you try to explain it. Fail.
Why are you so afraid of death? Why do you think it is such a bad thing? Without the prospect of death, are you really going to enjoy your life...knowing that one day, it will end? Death is change...its not some horrible thing brought forth by the devil (who I do not believe exists anyway). The ones who suffer from death are not the ones who die but the ones who outlive those who die. This is probably pure speculation here, but are you so afraid of death because of the hell concept?
Not afraid of death but I would rather not go through it, just like I would rather not have to get shots or cavities fixed among a lot of other things. It seems God could of done everything a lot better but chose not to...that is why I know he can't be there.
Then believe that...know it even. Find something and stick with it.
How rude.
Marieelissa, Amy was not being rude. In fact she was trying to tell you to make a choice, instead of waffling all over the place. You owe her an apology. People who try to help you find your way, or to help you understand what your actually saying, or doing, don't deserve that kind of response.
I see marie is channeling the spirit of queen in her responses today lol. :P
::)
Thank you, Annella.
-
I found it rude, sorry amy! I said that because the religious thing has been a constant battle all my life, not wanting to believe and scared into believing out of fear of going to hell. That is why I would bounce back and forth but deep down inside I was always an atheist when it came to the bible God because of the hell thing and some other things too.
No worries. Its not up to me to choose a religion for you. I just think that you are in so much turmoil over religion and you're not sure what to believe that if you found your answer you'd find peace. I would never try to tell you which one is best for you. I've even said that once my daughter is old enough to make her own choice that I would not hold it against her...and I'm infinitely closer to her than I am you. ;)
I just hate it, though, when I see someone as conflicted as you appear, and I want to help them. If there is anything within my power I can do to help you, I will. No one deserves torture or turmoil or confusion. If atheism is what suits you, that's fine. If its agnosticism, then that's fine. If its Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Wicca...whatever fits, then embrace it...because your religion is yours. :thumbsup:
-
I found it rude, sorry amy! I said that because the religious thing has been a constant battle all my life, not wanting to believe and scared into believing out of fear of going to hell. That is why I would bounce back and forth but deep down inside I was always an atheist when it came to the bible God because of the hell thing and some other things too.
No worries. Its not up to me to choose a religion for you. I just think that you are in so much turmoil over religion and you're not sure what to believe that if you found your answer you'd find peace. I would never try to tell you which one is best for you. I've even said that once my daughter is old enough to make her own choice that I would not hold it against her...and I'm infinitely closer to her than I am you. ;)
I just hate it, though, when I see someone as conflicted as you appear, and I want to help them. If there is anything within my power I can do to help you, I will. No one deserves torture or turmoil or confusion. If atheism is what suits you, that's fine. If its agnosticism, then that's fine. If its Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Wicca...whatever fits, then embrace it...because your religion is yours. :thumbsup:
I would like to find a religion that doesn't believe in hell or the devil. And a religion that if even people are atheist to it will not be punished by the deity of it.
Sounds like mine, but its a hard one to live by. I generally don't recommend it to anyone. If someone goes to services and likes it, I recommend them to a rabbi. I must clarify, though, that I am a Reform Jew. Conservative and Orthodox Jews are stricter than Reform are.
You also might want to look into Wicca...they are nature loving. Its a common misconception that all who study Wicca are witches. You may want to read about them...a good place to start, no joke, is Wicca for Dummies or Paganism for Dummies. Even doing a search online may help. Plus, Amazon has a free kindle reader for computers and they have excellent prices for their books...many are free.
-
You know what Marieelissa? I think maybe for now just finding a support group around your age just to talk and hang with, would be great. Maybe you could take a fun class at the community college. Take some art classes or sewing classes. Is there something you have always wanted to learn how to do? No matter how far fetched it may be....go for it!! Do you like to bowl? Skate? Hike? Go to your local visitor's center and see your area like a tourist would see it.
I think if you got out, and had some outside interests, it would help you tremendously. I'm thinking about picking up some tailoring classes myself, as I'd love to make some nice suits, and some tailored coats. Sometime in the not to distant future I'm going to pick up some Archery lessons. My son loves it, and it looks extremely interesting to me. I've also wanted to learn how to make my own shoes. The possibilities are endless.
I think if you just got out and pursued some sort of fun activity, it would occupy your mind a lot, and it would help you to put some things in better perspective. Even I find myself on this forum more than necessary. It's addictive. It's good to just walk away for awhile.
I've said this before.....I wish we lived closer together because we could do some things together. I would love to have some girl shopping trips, etc......that's the truth.
-
You know what Marieelissa? I think maybe for now just finding a support group around your age just to talk and hang with, would be great. Maybe you could take a fun class at the community college. Take some art classes or sewing classes. Is there something you have always wanted to learn how to do? No matter how far fetched it may be....go for it!! Do you like to bowl? Skate? Hike? Go to your local visitor's center and see your area like a tourist would see it.
I think if you got out, and had some outside interests, it would help you tremendously. I'm thinking about picking up some tailoring classes myself, as I'd love to make some nice suits, and some tailored coats. Sometime in the not to distant future I'm going to pick up some Archery lessons. My son loves it, and it looks extremely interesting to me. I've also wanted to learn how to make my own shoes. The possibilities are endless.
I think if you just got out and pursued some sort of fun activity, it would occupy your mind a lot, and it would help you to put some things in better perspective. Even I find myself on this forum more than necessary. It's addictive. It's good to just walk away for awhile.
I've said this before.....I wish we lived closer together because we could do some things together. I would love to have some girl shopping trips, etc......that's the truth.
I do have outside interests but I am not like a lot of people. I also don't have money to just blow on silly things. I don't need a support group, I am fine.
There are free things to do, though...plus you could always take up a hobby. I'm actually thinking about starting to make pillowcase clothes for toddlers and seeing if I can sell any...and if I can't, I've got a little girl that can wear them. There is always something like that you could find to do...a hobby using materials you already have at home... :thumbsup: I also play with pictures using Luna and Paint on my computer, and I make slideshow videos for my family...I post them on facebook...you're more than welcome to look me up. :D
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
-
Didn't God know what the Devil was going to do? Why on Earth and Heaven did he create him?
marie, the links I posted earlier answer that question; if you care to take a look.
-
You know what Marieelissa? I think maybe for now just finding a support group around your age just to talk and hang with, would be great. Maybe you could take a fun class at the community college. Take some art classes or sewing classes. Is there something you have always wanted to learn how to do? No matter how far fetched it may be....go for it!! Do you like to bowl? Skate? Hike? Go to your local visitor's center and see your area like a tourist would see it.
I think if you got out, and had some outside interests, it would help you tremendously. I'm thinking about picking up some tailoring classes myself, as I'd love to make some nice suits, and some tailored coats. Sometime in the not to distant future I'm going to pick up some Archery lessons. My son loves it, and it looks extremely interesting to me. I've also wanted to learn how to make my own shoes. The possibilities are endless.
I think if you just got out and pursued some sort of fun activity, it would occupy your mind a lot, and it would help you to put some things in better perspective. Even I find myself on this forum more than necessary. It's addictive. It's good to just walk away for awhile.
I've said this before.....I wish we lived closer together because we could do some things together. I would love to have some girl shopping trips, etc......that's the truth.
I do have outside interests but I am not like a lot of people. I also don't have money to just blow on silly things. I don't need a support group, I am fine.
There are free things to do, though...plus you could always take up a hobby. I'm actually thinking about starting to make pillowcase clothes for toddlers and seeing if I can sell any...and if I can't, I've got a little girl that can wear them. There is always something like that you could find to do...a hobby using materials you already have at home... :thumbsup: I also play with pictures using Luna and Paint on my computer, and I make slideshow videos for my family...I post them on facebook...you're more than welcome to look me up. :D
Well one thing, I have a lap top that I can take with me anywhere, I could be sitting in a park just chatting it up. I have only been a member of Fusion Cash for a little over a year. This was like my hobby, after my boyfriend told me you could take surveys for cash.
I also live in a rural area and there is nothing to do here, honestly. The nearest city is like 45 minutes away and all it has there is a shopping mall. So I spend most of my time watching Tv, on the internet (doing lots of things) and working...I am self employed and work at home.
If I lived where I used to live 8 years ago, then I wouldn't be on here at all other than meeting a min post requirement for 3.00$
It is just cause I live in the country and no joke the only thing to do around here is go to church. And there is a little park up the road but it is for kids unless you want to walk around the park on the trail.
I'm with ya there, I live in a rural area as well. But I can take a walk up main street and back with my little one. Plus, I love to go hiking out by this place called Sky Bridge...its one of those natural rock bridges. My favorite place is called Chimney Rock, and its an hour away from me...gorgeous at sunset. I hit up yard sales on the weekend in the sunny weather, and there is a Peddler's Mall close by that I like to walk through...but I won't buy anything. Malls don't do much for me...everything is overpriced.
-
:cat: We moved to a rural area recently (after living my life in a big city.) That was quite a change for this city girl. But I've adjusted pretty good now.
Amy, where you live, sounds very interesting! I would love to be around some of those places!
Marie, have you always lived in the country? Duh, I take that back. I re-read your post about the "8 years ago" part. :sad1:
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
Your right on the main points. However, the name of Lucifer is only used once in the Bible, as the name God gave to him only.
His identity changed after his fall. Now his names are devil, satan, unclean, dragon, etc. Studying this out makes me believe that Lucifer was one of the Arcangels. There were 3....Gabriel (Messenger), Michael (Warrior), and Lucifer (Covering Cherub). Lucifer was made with precious jewels and pipes for "manifesting" the "Glory" of God as God is invisible (Spirit) with no visible form (Now He is manifested in Jesus as the son "declares" Him). Lucifer was responsible for leading the heavenly host in praise, and worship unto God with music (hence the pipes). Walking in the midst of the stones of fire was something God did, so that tells me that the Spirit of God would "inhabit" Lucifer during these times of praise and worship.
He was extremely beautiful, and got lifted up with pride as he thought he should be in God's place because he was the "manifestation" of Glory in heaven during these times of praise and worship in Heaven. This tells me that even Angels have some semblance of free will as 1/3 of the angels followed the devil to earth in the fall. These were choices made by them. Lucifer was created blameless until he made a choice to be prideful and sin.
Have you ever wondered why the devil hates humanity so much? Well.....he lost his place to us. We now worship God in Spirit and in Truth. There is no more covering cherub in heaven leading the Heavenly Host in praise and Glory unto God. Oh the Angels still minister, and praise God in Heaven, but we as converts have taken the devils place of high and willful praise unto God from free will of our thankful hearts. God realized the downfall of beauty and pride, and how it can pervert, so in His wisdom, He Himself took on the form of lowly man (us). When you realize just how this all works together, you begin to understand the amazing Love he has for humanity.
I've Know of people seeing Angels during a worship service standing right next to the people with their arms raised and worshipping right along with the people of God. The Spirit of God has been poured out upon ALL flesh, and the Angels are here, as well as in Heaven. A woman said there were as many Angels or more as there were people in a church service she was in, when God opened her eyes to let her see. She said that when it was time for the Word of God to come forth (preaching), the Angels all went to the back of the building and stood at attention as honor and reverence to God's Word.
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
-
No comment on your story, but this is only the second thing I have had time to read and am going off again in a minute. I was not aware you had the authority to control this Forum, Annella. If you wanted this not commented on, then why didn't you just put it on your Facebook where only your 'allowed' visitors can see it. This is absolute rubbish:
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
Right now I am glad I won't be back on FC until later, if at all, because this has me ticked big time. Are you in control mode or what?
-
No comment on your story, but this is only the second thing I have had time to read and am going off again in a minute. I was not aware you had the authority to control this Forum, Annella. If you wanted this not commented on, then why didn't you just put it on your Facebook where only your 'allowed' visitors can see it. This is absolute rubbish:
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
Right now I am glad I won't be back on FC until later, if at all, because this has me ticked big time. Are you in control mode or what?
Wow, your ticked off because I wrote this to my brothers and sisters? lol I said that so there would be no mocking or such.....or at least cut down on it. I can't write anything this big on Facebook, but will be able to put writings like this on my website when it gets up and going.
Your being oversensitive for no reason. Since it's something unbelievers would not believe anyway, they can pass it on by. I think you just like to gripe about stuff, especially if it's me writing it, so realize your reaction is overreaction. Maybe it's the subject that has you bent?
-
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the Tree Of Knowledge.
-
Madeara....ignore Marieelissa, last week she was a devout Christian, then an Atheist, back and forth, and sometimes she doesn't know what she believes or wants.
-
God already told Adam n eve not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden, so it is logical to think wen they went against d instructions they knew they had done evil. Also they where naked from d beginning n did not know it but as soon as they eat the fruit they realized that they had been naked. I guess it just like being a child and ur parents cater for u but as soon as u feel like u'r old enough and cannot follow their rules n instructions, then they leave u to fend for yourself. When Adam n eve decided not to follow instructions, they knew evil from good n did evil anyway so God left them to fend for themselves.
-
God already told Adam n eve not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden, so it is logical to think wen they went against d instructions they knew they had done evil. Also they where naked from d beginning n did not know it but as soon as they eat the fruit they realized that they had been naked. I guess it just like being a child and ur parents cater for u but as soon as u feel like u'r old enough and cannot follow their rules n instructions, then they leave u to fend for yourself. When Adam n eve decided not to follow instructions, they knew evil from good n did evil anyway so God left them to fend for themselves.
If you stop and really think about what you said about the nudity, though...do you think A&E really understood the act of defiance? Did they have the capability to understand...they hadn't eaten from the tree yet. They didn't know the difference between good and evil until the fruit was eaten. So they chose knowledge, good and bad, over perfection.
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
...Your right on the main points. However, the name of Lucifer is only used once in the Bible, as the name God gave to him only...
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
annabella,
thank you for sharing your enlightment and for sharing the number of times a name is used in the bible and your attempt to edify your brothers and sisters. i am now writing because i need to address your statements i excerpted above: first, whole MY point in writing was to mainly answer a question someone had and to reference why God made His Son available to everyone born in this world. secondly, MY use of the name lucifer was used in the same context God used this name (which is always safe & correct) as stated in:
isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
now to be absolutely clear, please receive my response in the spirit it is given...in :heart: and in :peace:
alivinggem :angel11:
-
God already told Adam n eve not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden, so it is logical to think wen they went against d instructions they knew they had done evil. Also they where naked from d beginning n did not know it but as soon as they eat the fruit they realized that they had been naked. I guess it just like being a child and ur parents cater for u but as soon as u feel like u'r old enough and cannot follow their rules n instructions, then they leave u to fend for yourself. When Adam n eve decided not to follow instructions, they knew evil from good n did evil anyway so God left them to fend for themselves.
If you stop and really think about what you said about the nudity, though...do you think A&E really understood the act of defiance? Did they have the capability to understand...they hadn't eaten from the tree yet. They didn't know the difference between good and evil until the fruit was eaten. So they chose knowledge, good and bad, over perfection.
And this is why I used kids as an example, when u tell them not to do something because its bad, they probably will not.
-
God already told Adam n eve not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden, so it is logical to think wen they went against d instructions they knew they had done evil. Also they where naked from d beginning n did not know it but as soon as they eat the fruit they realized that they had been naked. I guess it just like being a child and ur parents cater for u but as soon as u feel like u'r old enough and cannot follow their rules n instructions, then they leave u to fend for yourself. When Adam n eve decided not to follow instructions, they knew evil from good n did evil anyway so God left them to fend for themselves.
If you stop and really think about what you said about the nudity, though...do you think A&E really understood the act of defiance? Did they have the capability to understand...they hadn't eaten from the tree yet. They didn't know the difference between good and evil until the fruit was eaten. So they chose knowledge, good and bad, over perfection.
And this is why I used kids as an example, when u tell them not to do something because its bad, they probably will not.
LOL! Do you have kids? My daughter is determined to do the exact opposite of nearly everything I say! Its part of their development...and completely natural.
-
God already told Adam n eve not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden, so it is logical to think wen they went against d instructions they knew they had done evil. Also they where naked from d beginning n did not know it but as soon as they eat the fruit they realized that they had been naked. I guess it just like being a child and ur parents cater for u but as soon as u feel like u'r old enough and cannot follow their rules n instructions, then they leave u to fend for yourself. When Adam n eve decided not to follow instructions, they knew evil from good n did evil anyway so God left them to fend for themselves.
that made ZERO sense. they didn't even know what good and evil was before eating the fruit. you keep saying "they knew it was evil". NO. god said they would surely die. that just means they didn't care about dying. i don't even know how they could know what dying was. some people on here make a point but that is pure rationalizaton.
--Hey guys, i'm going to read more tonight and i'll post some more about it.
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
...Your right on the main points. However, the name of Lucifer is only used once in the Bible, as the name God gave to him only...
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
annabella,
thank you for sharing your enlightment and for sharing the number of times a name is used in the bible and your attempt to edify your brothers and sisters. i am now writing because i need to address your statements i excerpted above: first, whole MY point in writing was to mainly answer a question someone had and to reference why God made His Son available to everyone born in this world. secondly, MY use of the name lucifer was used in the same context God used this name (which is always safe & correct) as stated in:
isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
now to be absolutely clear, please receive my response in the spirit it is given...in :heart: and in :peace:
alivinggem :angel11:
Please don't take any offense to what I wrote. If you thought I was calling you out for your usage of the scripture, nothing is further from my mind. Your usage was correct. I was expounding on what you were saying (just adding to it). Everyone on here knows I go into much detail about scripture and points in the Bible. Kind of an occupational hazard as I'm an Evangelist and my main Study book is......well, the Bible.
I happen to have done a complete study on the enemy of our souls, and what his role actually was and why. My writing of "it's to my brothers and sisters" singles out no one particularly, except believers. We have been mocked and berated for our belief in God. I was trying to keep that at a minimum.
I hope I've explained this satisfactorily :heart:
I just woke from a very nice nap, and just saw this, and wanted to put things right.
-
No comment on your story, but this is only the second thing I have had time to read and am going off again in a minute. I was not aware you had the authority to control this Forum, Annella. If you wanted this not commented on, then why didn't you just put it on your Facebook where only your 'allowed' visitors can see it. This is absolute rubbish:
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
Right now I am glad I won't be back on FC until later, if at all, because this has me ticked big time. Are you in control mode or what?
Wow, your ticked off because I wrote this to my brothers and sisters? lol I said that so there would be no mocking or such.....or at least cut down on it. I can't write anything this big on Facebook, but will be able to put writings like this on my website when it gets up and going.
Your being oversensitive for no reason. Since it's something unbelievers would not believe anyway, they can pass it on by. I think you just like to gripe about stuff, especially if it's me writing it, so realize your reaction is overreaction. Maybe it's the subject that has you bent?
No, I am NOT an oversensitive person unless it is something that is worthy of my being sensitive to it - this is not falling into that category by any means. No, I was not ticked off because you "wrote to your brothers and sisters", write whatever you want. No, I don't like to write things "just to gripe about stuff" either. Since you did in fact write this, then yes, this is aimed at you, but ONLY because it is the proverbial 'last straw' for me right now.
You have been on a run lately as far as being just as snarky, just as rude, just as mean, and just as off-putting as anyone you have chosen to go after lately. I am sick and tired of the justification you use for it, instead of just admitting it like everyone else seems to be able to do. The persecution factor against "your family in Christ, your brothers and sisters on your Christian walk" has run it's course. Now you are just being an out and out *bleep*. Other people at least have the decency to apologize when they have been rude, etc., because they are having a really lousy day, tired, overreacting due to something outside the Forum, whatever it might be. You do not seem to have that ability in you, unless it is one of 'your people'. Funny thing though, I have seen many times when the other steadfast christians and believers on here do just that and explain why they wrote what they did. Not you - it is okay because you are special. That little specialness just went too far when you made that qualification as to no one else needing to comment on what you wrote.
A few months ago you were on a rampage about people being mean to marieelissa. Now? You are telling new people to stay away from her, giving the little eye-rolls, snarky comments - anything you can. Even congratulations to QON for converting her. You are no different than anyone you claim to be holier than ie anyone who doesn't go along with your line of thinking. One minute you state you are starting to understand Walks' struggles and the next you are right back at him. But it is all good because you are on your Christian walk. Now, please, do not come back with any of the "It's time we stood up for ourselves and stopped the non-believers from making us doormats." or any other standard lines. Like I said at the beginning of this - that got used up and old quite awhile ago, you are all holding your own quite well, so it doesn't fly.
I am quite sure I will get blasted for writing this and will probably hear from newer people who think you are so kind, so knowledgeable, etc. That is fine, I can take it. I have watched you since you came on here and I know enough people just like you to know what you are all about. That is NOT saying you are a 'bad' person. Just admit you are NO kinder and no more loving than anyone else is unless it suits you and the person happens to suit you. You may preach to others, but you could surely learn many lessons by watching Amyrouse, jcribb, sherna, and quite a few others on here including the ones who have no god. They may not have 40+ years of religion, but they have more class most days than you do, by far. If you feel I go after you, maybe it's because your BS sticks out so glaringly at times and especially when you are up on your own pedestal. I honestly believe you forget at times I am not a twenty-something year old you can dazzle with all your worldliness. You might have 8 years on me, but I haven't lived my life trying to 'save people' with reams of words, only with my hands and my brain. I may not have your god, but I am willing to bet I have a far more realistic knowledge of exactly who I am and what I am about than you'll ever have.
-
Madeara....ignore Marieelissa, last week she was a devout Christian, then an Atheist, back and forth, and sometimes she doesn't know what she believes or wants.
Aren't you the one that got on peoples case because they wrote this exact thing? Now you do it yourself?
Marieelissa, your off the deep end. Anyone can see it. All of us have tried to be nice to you, only to have you turn and stab us in the back. We've written reams of suggestions, encouragement, etc., for what? So you can take that and throw it back in our face and denounce everything. This happens almost daily with you.
I for one am going to try and ignore you myself as much as possible because it's clear you don't want any help at the moment. Okay, but when you do, we believers will be around. The insult you threw out at Sherene when she was only trying to tell you she hopes you change your mind, was absolutely like a child in a tantrum. How could you talk to her that way, when all she was expressing was concern for you. ???
It's almost just like that. If you don't get the response you want (in any post), you throw a hissy fit verbally, and call the most horrible names out to anybody. Makes no difference if it is believers or non believers. Everybody has come to your defense, but they can't condone when you are wrong......there's a difference. While I don't like to see you berated in the past. I can't stand by and say your correct now, on how you conduct yourself. Believe what you like, but to attack people verbally because they won't agree with you, reminds me to much of someone else on here.
-
No comment on your story, but this is only the second thing I have had time to read and am going off again in a minute. I was not aware you had the authority to control this Forum, Annella. If you wanted this not commented on, then why didn't you just put it on your Facebook where only your 'allowed' visitors can see it. This is absolute rubbish:
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
Right now I am glad I won't be back on FC until later, if at all, because this has me ticked big time. Are you in control mode or what?
Wow, your ticked off because I wrote this to my brothers and sisters? lol I said that so there would be no mocking or such.....or at least cut down on it. I can't write anything this big on Facebook, but will be able to put writings like this on my website when it gets up and going.
Your being oversensitive for no reason. Since it's something unbelievers would not believe anyway, they can pass it on by. I think you just like to gripe about stuff, especially if it's me writing it, so realize your reaction is overreaction. Maybe it's the subject that has you bent?
No, I am NOT an oversensitive person unless it is something that is worthy of my being sensitive to it - this is not falling into that category by any means. No, I was not ticked off because you "wrote to your brothers and sisters", write whatever you want. No, I don't like to write things "just to gripe about stuff" either. Since you did in fact write this, then yes, this is aimed at you, but ONLY because it is the proverbial 'last straw' for me right now.
You have been on a run lately as far as being just as snarky, just as rude, just as mean, and just as off-putting as anyone you have chosen to go after lately. I am sick and tired of the justification you use for it, instead of just admitting it like everyone else seems to be able to do. The persecution factor against "your family in Christ, your brothers and sisters on your Christian walk" has run it's course. Now you are just being an out and out *bleep*. Other people at least have the decency to apologize when they have been rude, etc., because they are having a really lousy day, tired, overreacting due to something outside the Forum, whatever it might be. You do not seem to have that ability in you, unless it is one of 'your people'. Funny thing though, I have seen many times when the other steadfast christians and believers on here do just that and explain why they wrote what they did. Not you - it is okay because you are special. That little specialness just went too far when you made that qualification as to no one else needing to comment on what you wrote.
A few months ago you were on a rampage about people being mean to marieelissa. Now? You are telling new people to stay away from her, giving the little eye-rolls, snarky comments - anything you can. Even congratulations to QON for converting her. You are no different than anyone you claim to be holier than ie anyone who doesn't go along with your line of thinking. One minute you state you are starting to understand Walks' struggles and the next you are right back at him. But it is all good because you are on your Christian walk. Now, please, do not come back with any of the "It's time we stood up for ourselves and stopped the non-believers from making us doormats." or any other standard lines. Like I said at the beginning of this - that got used up and old quite awhile ago, you are all holding your own quite well, so it doesn't fly.
I am quite sure I will get blasted for writing this and will probably hear from newer people who think you are so kind, so knowledgeable, etc. That is fine, I can take it. I have watched you since you came on here and I know enough people just like you to know what you are all about. That is NOT saying you are a 'bad' person. Just admit you are NO kinder and no more loving than anyone else is unless it suits you and the person happens to suit you. You may preach to others, but you could surely learn many lessons by watching Amyrouse, jcribb, sherna, and quite a few others on here including the ones who have no god. They may not have 40+ years of religion, but they have more class most days than you do, by far. If you feel I go after you, maybe it's because your BS sticks out so glaringly at times and especially when you are up on your own pedestal. I honestly believe you forget at times I am not a twenty-something year old you can dazzle with all your worldliness. You might have 8 years on me, but I haven't lived my life trying to 'save people' with reams of words, only with my hands and my brain. I may not have your god, but I am willing to bet I have a far more realistic knowledge of exactly who I am and what I am about than you'll ever have.
Wow, we've gotten down to name calling again.....bravo!! I expected no less. I've said nothing different than any other Christian on here has. You just don't like being called on your attitudes after months of turning the other cheek, and wiping your shoes on anything pertaining to my profession of my Faith. There are times to turn the other cheek, and then there are times to stand up for the cause of Christ, and denounce some of the verbal berating that goes on towards Christians.
Everybody can learn from everybody. At no time did I put myself "over" anyone. You'll have to do better than that. The only one I have to answer to is Almighty God....not you. You don't have to like me, or agree with me, or even read my posts. All of this is your free will right.....and again.....your entitled to your opinion.
Have a great evening ;)
-
Madeara....ignore Marieelissa, last week she was a devout Christian, then an Atheist, back and forth, and sometimes she doesn't know what she believes or wants.
Aren't you the one that got on peoples case because they wrote this exact thing? Now you do it yourself?
Marieelissa, your off the deep end. Anyone can see it. All of us have tried to be nice to you, only to have you turn and stab us in the back. We've written reams of suggestions, encouragement, etc., for what? So you can take that and throw it back in our face and denounce everything. This happens almost daily with you.
I for one am going to try and ignore you myself as much as possible because it's clear you don't want any help at the moment. Okay, but when you do, we believers will be around. The insult you threw out at Sherene when she was only trying to tell you she hopes you change your mind, was absolutely like a child in a tantrum. How could you talk to her that way, when all she was expressing was concern for you. ???
It's almost just like that. If you don't get the response you want (in any post), you throw a hissy fit verbally, and call the most horrible names out to anybody. Makes no difference if it is believers or non believers. Everybody has come to your defense, but they can't condone when you are wrong......there's a difference. While I don't like to see you berated in the past. I can't stand by and say your correct now, on how you conduct yourself. Believe what you like, but to attack people verbally because they won't agree with you, reminds me to much of someone else on here.
I am trying to get out of the unhealthy way of thinking, the thinking that I will go to hell, it was a struggle all my life, and then she post "change my mind for the sake of your soul".
No God would send his creations to hell...maybe to time out but never to hell.
You act like you are what we should act like, but I don't agree with the things you do on this forum.
Like everyone else on this forum.....your entitled to your opinion.
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
Didn't God know what the Devil was going to do? Why on Earth and Heaven did he create him?
I personally trust His reasoning & thoughts for they are better and higher than ours but if I have a questions or need wisdom about anything, i ask Him. I recommend you ask Him.
(James 1:5-6) If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
-
I personally trust His reasoning & thoughts for they are better and higher than ours but if I have a questions or need wisdom about anything, i ask Him. I recommend you ask Him.
(James 1:5-6) If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
:thumbsup:
-
If God is all knowing why did he create the Devil period? Makes no logical sense.
Everything God does is right whether we understand it or not! God created satan as a blameless angel but pride jacked him up and he wanted to be above God so he was degraded to a fallen angel (lucifer) while persuading a third of the angelic host to follow him but God brought Jesus to this world to deliver anyone born into this world who will receive His Son so they wont end up like satan or his followers.
Ezekiel 28:
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
...Your right on the main points. However, the name of Lucifer is only used once in the Bible, as the name God gave to him only...
This is for edification to my brothers and sisters. No one else needs to comment on this as it's aimed strictly at them.
annabella,
thank you for sharing your enlightment and for sharing the number of times a name is used in the bible and your attempt to edify your brothers and sisters. i am now writing because i need to address your statements i excerpted above: first, whole MY point in writing was to mainly answer a question someone had and to reference why God made His Son available to everyone born in this world. secondly, MY use of the name lucifer was used in the same context God used this name (which is always safe & correct) as stated in:
isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
now to be absolutely clear, please receive my response in the spirit it is given...in :heart: and in :peace:
alivinggem :angel11:
...I just woke from a very nice nap, and just saw this, and wanted to put things right.
no problem, hon.
bless you in the Lord!