Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - walksalone11

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 101
31
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 22, 2012, 11:04:15 am »Message ID: 541346
Wow, this could wind up being a very long conversation, we might want to think about a separate thread? I have come across some info on that subject in some pretty un related research, but the content is not that fresh in my mind. Allow me, before responding other than vaguely, to refresh my memory. I'm thinking I saw something about that in a book I have on ancient rock art in this area. I'll check out your link, read up what I have and perhaps speak to some Dine and Hopi friends/Relatives I have here locally, and I will get back to you.

Excellent, that sounds interesting.  Go ahead and start a new d+d or off topic thread, (something like "Anasazi ancients"?), so we can clear out of this 'calling out' thread?
If you want, you go ahead and initiate the thread.

So far every thing I am coming up with disputes the claim that the Dine (Navajo) are not decended from the Anasazi. We probably should try to find out what evidence, the author of that piece, is basing his opinion.

So far, my thoughts on him is; he is of european decent speaking as an authority on NDNs.....strike 1

He is a journalist speaking as an un-biased authority on NDNs.....strike 2

........

32
Debate & Discuss / Re: UN To Investigate Plight of US Native Americans For First Time
« on: May 22, 2012, 10:38:22 am »Message ID: 541337
....ever hear of a guy named John McCain?

33
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 05:06:57 pm »Message ID: 540525
Speaking of the sense of entitlement I mention, check my latest post in the U.N. thread.

I just looked at that, (and the linked info).  This part stood out especially; "The WIPO representative at the UNPFII clearly indicated that WIPO is not interested in the protection of indigenous knowledge systems, Harry said. “In fact he said that ‘if you’re interested in protections and conservation of traditional knowledge, then WIPO is not for you.’ He actually said that. What he didn’t say conversely, then, is ‘If you’re interested in exploiting and commercializing indigenous knowledge systems, then WIPO is for you.” "

People could send send reps like Chief Sitting Bull's cousin, (and try to keep a straight face while indulging in significant 'poetic license' to any misappropriaters who happen to wander by.

You've undoubtably heard of the fluffy chick who went to the tattoo parlor to get "Peace" in Japanese tatted on her arm, and was thrilled with her new ink that actually read "I am an idiot".......who do you think taught them that? ;)

34
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 04:22:55 pm »Message ID: 540517
Speaking of the sense of entitlement I mention, check my latest post in the U.N. thread.

35
Debate & Discuss / Re: UN To Investigate Plight of US Native Americans For First Time
« on: May 20, 2012, 04:21:07 pm »Message ID: 540513
"Dozens of Indigenous Peoples showed up at a presentation by the World Intellectual Property Organization at the 11th Session of the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues wearing t-shirts that said “World Intellectual Piracy Organization.”

The t-shirts were meant to educate Indigenous Peoples about the threats that the World Intellectual Property Organization poses to Indigenous Peoples’ genetic resources, traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expressions. “It was very important to have a visual representation of what the work of WIPO actually is,” said Debra Harry (Paiute from Pyramid Lake in Nevada), who presented an intervention on behalf of more than a dozen indigenous organizations during WIPO’s presentation at the U.N. on May 10.

WIPO is a specialized body within the United Nations comprised of almost all of its nation-state members. It is “dedicated to the use of intellectual property (patents, copyright, trademarks, designs, etc.) as a means of stimulating innovation and creativity,” according to the WIPO website. WIPO services global registration systems for trademarks, industrial designs and appellations of origin, and a global filing system for patents, the site says. “Most industrialized nations have intellectual property protection systems that are centuries old. Many new and developing countries, however, are in the process of building up their patent, trademark and copyright legal frameworks and systems. With the increasing globalization of trade and rapid changes in technological innovation, WIPO plays a key role in helping these new systems to evolve through treaty negotiation, registration, enforcement, legal and technical assistance and training in various forms,” according to the website.

According to Harry and other indigenous delegates attending the UNPFII, WIPO is in the business of misappropriating indigenous knowledge, resources and aspects of traditional culture and expressions in order to commercialize and profit from them.

“There are many Indigenous Peoples’ in North America who have had a lot of their cultural traditional knowledge misappropriated. We’ve heard many stories of researchers who have come and done linguistics around Indigenous Peoples’ language and documented their oral histories and so on, and then have copyrighted that material and then the community no longer has access to that material. That’s an example of how intellectual property rights can be used to misappropriate Indigenous Peoples’ knowledge,” Harry said. Another example is the misappropriated and degradation of the Anishinaabeg’s traditional natural wild rice in Minnesota that benefits General Mills and General food.

Once the copyright protection or a patent expires, the material goes into the public domain, meaning it is available for free to anyone. “So if WIPO is successful in forcing indigenous knowledge systems into an intellectual property framework and certain aspects of our cultural heritage are usurped into that regime, it’s technically a one-way track out of our communities and out of our control and then put into the public domain. And the only reason you would do that is to commercialize it,” Harry said.

The WIPO representative at the UNPFII clearly indicated that WIPO is not interested in the protection of indigenous knowledge systems, Harry said. “In fact he said that ‘if you’re interested in protections and conservation of traditional knowledge, then WIPO is not for you.’ He actually said that. What he didn’t say conversely, then, is ‘If you’re interested in exploiting and commercializing indigenous knowledge systems, then WIPO is for you.”

Indigenous Peoples and organizations withdrew from active participation in WIPO in February. The organization meets two or three times a year in Geneva. The member states have consistently ignored the indigenous organizations’ demand over the past three or four meeting for full and equal participation in the process or to respect their rights and interests in the process, Harry said. “All our text proposals have fallen off the negotiation table and our rights to participate continue to be diminished, for instance, the amount of money available to support Indigenous Peoples to participate has continued to shrink dramatically so when it shrinks and they’re only able to support five Indigenous People from around the world to attend, that’s hardly fair representation of the worlds’ [370 million] Indigenous Peoples,” Harry said.

In her presentation at the UNPFII, Harry asked the WIPO pointblank, “nder what moral and legal authority do you presume to possess a right to impose an intellectual property rights regime upon Indigenous Peoples and Nations knowledge and resources?” The WIPO representative’s answer was not recorded.

The Global Indigenous Youth Caucus (GIYC) also made a presentation during the session. “WIPO is a contemporary monopolistic manifestation of piracy that magnifies the Doctrine of Discovery and domination. We take on the responsibilities of our ancestors’ legacy at this critical moment in history [and] call for the extinguishment of WIPO’s mandate,” the representative said.

The GIYC statement echoed the call from the organizations that endorsed Harry’s intervention that includes:

Asking the Permanent Forum to request that WIPO amend its rules of procedure to insure the full and equal participation of Indigenous Peoples in all processes affecting them and that if WIPO does not change its rules it will be in violation of the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
Recommending that the UNPFII make it clear that WIPO has no authority to regulate Indigenous Peoples’ traditional knowledge or to access traditional knowledge and genetic resources, which remain under the control of Indigenous Peoples.
Calling on Indigenous Peoples to stand in solidarity in opposition to the Doctrine of Discovery and withdraw from the WIPO process until it changes its rules.
Recommending that Indigenous Peoples and nations set their own legal standards for the protection of genetic resources, traditional knowledge and cultural expressions.
“We have to continue to fight this whole process by any means,” Harry said. We have to call on states to let them know that Indigenous Peoples do not agree with what they’re doing and we need to see if we can get the mandate withdrawn from WIPO. These are matters that affect indigenous rights and WIPO is not an indigenous rights or human rights body. Their mandate is to promoted intellectual property rights; their income is derived from licenses. It’s purely an economic body.”



Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/05/16/world-intellectual-property-organization-blasted-for-misappropriation-of-indigenous-knowledge-resources-113359 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/05/16/world-intellectual-property-organization-blasted-for-misappropriation-of-indigenous-knowledge-resources-113359#ixzz1vSGJ6A3y

36
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 03:46:06 pm »Message ID: 540499
I'm going to do a bit of research before initiating the new thread but will once I am ready. I am usually a bit reluctant to do a lot of in depth speaking on a Nation other than my own, so want to be very careful about not mis-speaking. It may be a couple days or so.

That won't be any problem at all.  If there's anything that a Hopi, Navajo or Dine would find inappropriate to talk about outside of the tribe, omit that and no one else will ever know something was omitted.

Even tho I have many people from other Nations whom I share a mutual feeling of Relation, too, there are many things that we do not speak of even to each other. I doubt I will become privy to any thing that would be considered inappropriate in that manner, however, of course, when speaking with them that caution will be mentioned.

That's just the way it is. Even with in my Nation (I wont speak now of others) some things are Nation specific, some are clan specific, family etc. As an example there are some ceremony that only Medicine Person's are allowed into, no one who isn't of that group, even knows what goes on in those Ceremonies. We take these things for granted and think nothing of it.

That's pretty much as I'd thought but, it's good that you confirmed that for those who might not have previously been aware that some things are on a need-to-know basis.  Thanks.  Rememer to just visit and just bs with those you talk to as well.  :o
Only thing is, with a lot of folks when you tell them that, they get all butt hurt and give "440" reasons why they are "entitled" to such information.

Dude.....we invented BSing.....haven't you ever heard of the great Chief Sit'n Bullshit?

37
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 03:07:15 pm »Message ID: 540482
I'm going to do a bit of research before initiating the new thread but will once I am ready. I am usually a bit reluctant to do a lot of in depth speaking on a Nation other than my own, so want to be very careful about not mis-speaking. It may be a couple days or so.

That won't be any problem at all.  If there's anything that a Hopi, Navajo or Dine would find inappropriate to talk about outside of the tribe, omit that and no one else will ever know something was omitted.
Even tho I have many people from other Nations whom I share a mutual feeling of Relation, too, there are many things that we do not speak of even to each other. I doubt I will become privy to any thing that would be considered inappropriate in that manner, however, of course, when speaking with them that caution will be mentioned.

That's just the way it is. Even with in my Nation (I wont speak now of others) some things are Nation specific, some are clan specific, family etc. As an example there are some ceremony that only Medicine Person's are allowed into, no one who isn't of that group, even knows what goes on in those Ceremonies. We take these things for granted and think nothing of it.

38
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 02:48:10 pm »Message ID: 540469
Wow, this could wind up being a very long conversation, we might want to think about a separate thread? I have come across some info on that subject in some pretty un related research, but the content is not that fresh in my mind. Allow me, before responding other than vaguely, to refresh my memory. I'm thinking I saw something about that in a book I have on ancient rock art in this area. I'll check out your link, read up what I have and perhaps speak to some Dine and Hopi friends/Relatives I have here locally, and I will get back to you.

Excellent, that sounds interesting.  Go ahead and start a new d+d or off topic thread, (something like "Anasazi ancients"?), so we can clear out of this 'calling out' thread?
I'm going to do a bit of research before initiating the new thread but will once I am ready. I am usually a bit reluctant to do a lot of in depth speaking on a Nation other than my own, so want to be very careful about not mis-speaking. It may be a couple days or so.

39
Debate & Discuss / Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« on: May 20, 2012, 02:26:02 pm »Message ID: 540463
Chirp  [about 440 times]

**STOMP!!!**.......**lifts foot and peers under**......**grunts in satisfaction and sits back down**

Guess it's just the time of year for 'spam-bugs' to come out a-trolling ... no doubt other xtians fervantly hope that particular one isn't representative of too many of 'em.
Well speaking as a non-Xtian, my experience with most I have came across never said "chirp" but did say something to the effect of "blah" "about 440 times".....

40
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 02:23:29 pm »Message ID: 540462
Can't blame a guy for tryin' eh?

Sure theres some nice land right down the road here.....not really to sure who owns it but I'll trade ya.

While that sounds a lot like the Manhatten Island deal, I somehow doubt that the person who owns land down the road from you would appreciate the transaction.

Were you aware that "Anasazi" is a Navajo word meaning "ancient people who are not us," a name disliked by modern Hopi and Zuni, the descendants of the Anasazi. The Hopi prefer the name Hisatsinom, meaning "ancient ones," or Moqui, meaning "the dead."
-- Anasazi Indian Facts | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5373418_anasazi-indian.html#ixzz1vRdJ4DfS
Wow, this could wind up being a very long conversation, we might want to think about a separate thread? I have come across some info on that subject in some pretty un related research, but the content is not that fresh in my mind. Allow me, before responding other than vaguely, to refresh my memory. I'm thinking I saw something about that in a book I have on ancient rock art in this area. I'll check out your link, read up what I have and perhaps speak to some Dine and Hopi friends/Relatives I have here locally, and I will get back to you.

41
Debate & Discuss / Re: Dumbing-down or wising-up?
« on: May 20, 2012, 01:40:28 pm »Message ID: 540434
Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp  Chirp
**STOMP!!!**.......**lifts foot and peers under**......**grunts in satisfaction and sits back down**

42
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 01:36:02 pm »Message ID: 540432
.....here ya go,I pass my crown to you.

'Traditionally', (as you know), such 'sacred totems' may only pass from mother to daughter or, father to son ... unless ......  dad, is that you?  :o

NO!!!...you cant have a raise in your allowance....nor the keys to the truck.....and I like Appaloosas.....

Wouldn't the Appaloosas go to her dad, not mine?  Besides, you never said you were Choctaw.  I do however, have some nice shiny beads to trade to you for some land ...
Can't blame a guy for tryin' eh?

Sure theres some nice land right down the road here.....not really to sure who owns it but I'll trade ya.

43
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 20, 2012, 12:02:15 pm »Message ID: 540388
Like you say, that was then.....a lot of water has passed beneath the bridge.....here ya go,I pass my crown to you.

That bridge may have even been washed-out during the monsoons ... however ...
'Traditionally', (as you know), such 'sacred totems' may only pass from mother to daughter or, father to son ... unless ......  dad, is that you?  :o
NO!!!...you cant have a raise in your allowance....nor the keys to the truck.....and I like Appaloosas.....

44
Debate & Discuss / Re: Should I leave Fusioncash?
« on: May 19, 2012, 05:30:28 pm »Message ID: 540172
Where would the writers ever get an idea like that?

Oddly enough, one episode of the first StarTrek series dealt with a 'tribe' which had been relocated to another planet far from earth, millenia before being 'discovered'.  No doubt these were metaphorical coincidences, eh?

oh yes, of course. Nothing like that would ever, really happen.

Not a chance; that's why it's science fiction.  You know, like orbital satellites were when A.C. Clarke first wrote about them fictionally, (as in, before there were any)?  Oh, wait ...
Um hummm.

45
Debate & Discuss / Re: Forum issues too much to put up with
« on: May 19, 2012, 05:29:07 pm »Message ID: 540171
Like you say, that was then.....a lot of water has passed beneath the bridge.....here ya go,I pass my crown to you.

No, no, no ... I was bequeathed the "brash" plaque here, not the "*bleep*" trophy thusfar.  Keep the donkey on your mantel for now, we'll see how it goes.  :o
Well....if you insist. It is a good reminder of where I've been, and where the path I'm on now is supposed to be leading.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 101