if god is real

[falcon9]

why would he make us out of his goodness if thats why he did... if some ppl go to hell... how could that be good if he knew some would go to hell and he made them anyways? wouldn't those ppl rather have not been made? and how could he torture them eternally?

Free will.

Non sequitur; the hypothetical punishment/reward paradigm remains inherently biased.  Comply with the faith-based 'demands', (under "free will"), or suffer the consequences of not complying with such faith-based 'threats', (by choosing not to, according to exercising "free will").  That's not "free will", it's the ultimate 'terrorist threat'.

"Religion easily has the greatest bull*bleep* story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day.
And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you!"
-- George Carlin, (from his album "You Are All Diseased")

[JediJohnnie]

why would he make us out of his goodness if thats why he did... if some ppl go to hell... how could that be good if he knew some would go to hell and he made them anyways? wouldn't those ppl rather have not been made? and how could he torture them eternally?

There seems to be a misconcepton you have about people being tortured endlessly by God.In effect,God gives people what they want:Forgiveness of their sins thorugh Jesus Christ's Atonement or punishement for their sins by Eternal Seperation from God.How could God be considered Just if He didn't punish the guilty?Right & wrong would be meaningless.Should a judge let the guilty go free,unpunished?

[Falconer02]

There seems to be a misconcepton you have about people being tortured endlessly by God.In effect,God gives people what they want:Forgiveness of their sins thorugh Jesus Christ's Atonement or punishement for their sins by Eternal Seperation from God.How could God be considered Just if He didn't punish the guilty?Right & wrong would be meaningless.Should a judge let the guilty go free,unpunished?

You fail to see many holes in this reasoning, so I'd like to ask you a couple of questions-

1.) How is eternal separation from god (a la the "Bad Ending" according to xtians) even fair? How is it not evil to punish someone eternally for a finite amount of sin?

2.) How could a god be just if he made faulty humans, and then judged them for his own failures that he saw coming due to his omnipotence? How is this not malevolence?

3.) How does a god judge someone who cannot control their wrongdoings (example being a dangerous mentally unstable person that cannot grasp the concept of this specific religion)?

4.) Does a person who kills 50 people and then begs for forgiveness to this god get into heaven? What about a person who simply steals 20$ once, does not beg for forgiveness, and is then killed by person #1? Do they get to go to heaven?

[anitaraemillspalmer]

why would he make us out of his goodness if thats why he did... if some ppl go to hell... how could that be good if he knew some would go to hell and he made them anyways? wouldn't those ppl rather have not been made? and how could he torture them eternally?

God gives us free will...yes he does know what choices we are going to make but if you are paying close attention you will hear what choices God really wants you to make...when you ignore him and side with the Devil there is always a price to pay... call it Karma...Just think about it...if the people in this world obeyed the bibles teachings...what a wonderful world we would live in    God speaks to us in many different ways...a thought may come to mind or that gut feeling...we know right from wrong...someone may give us advise...prayer is the best way to figure out what the right thing to do is....he does answer 

[Falconer02]

God gives us free will...yes he does know what choices we are going to make but if you are paying close attention you will hear what choices God really wants you to make...when you ignore him and side with the Devil there is always a price to pay...

He's omnipotent. He knows past, present, and future. How do you make a free choice if he already knows the outcome? It seems that there's the illusion of choice, but since this god already knows everything, is there really a choice? In order for us to make a free choice, would he not be omnipotent since he is incapable of seeing the future?

Just think about it...if the people in this world obeyed the bibles teachings...what a wonderful world we would live in 

I highly recommend you read the Old Testament. There are quite a lot of things in there that are horrific and barbaric, and I'd rather not live in that world. I'm sure you would have the moral sense to say the same if you knew what I was speaking of.

[falcon9]

God gives us free will...

There is no evidence to support such a contention as it is based upon "faith" and faith is a "belief" for which there is no evidence.

yes he does know what choices we are going to make but if you are paying close attention you will hear what choices God really wants you to make...

A choice which is coerced is not a 'free' choice.

...prayer is the best way to figure out what the right thing to do is....

This is the debate & discuss subforum of the Off Topics forum, (rather than some proselytize & evangelize xtian forum).  What that means is, if one wishes to enter, (at their own risk), and plop some unsubstantiated religious beliefs down on the d+d subforum, it would be unreasonable to expect no objections to such pronouncements.  If the intention is merely for xtians to make empty religious claims and provide nothing but more empty assertions when these are challenged, how does this constitute debating and discussing that subject?

[queenofnines]

There seems to be a misconcepton you have about people being tortured endlessly by God.

lol You say this so casually...what exactly is the misconception about being TORTURED ENDLESSLY?!

In effect,God gives people what they want:Forgiveness of their sins thorugh Jesus Christ's Atonement or punishement for their sins by Eternal Seperation from God.

Oh, that's cute. Yes, that's exactly what us nonbelievers want: to be in unbearable pain forever. Keep telling yourself that! It helps distract from the absurd and illogical cruelty of the situation!

How could God be considered Just if He didn't punish the guilty?

Your imaginary god needs to get his imaginary head examined. It's not my fault he's incompetent and let some retards made out of dirt eat some evil fruit that HE put there in the first place.

And you're not being honest here...justice is supposed to be fair and unbiased for everyone, but your deity plays favorites. The only difference between rapist A and rapist B in your god's book is that rapist A decided to kiss god's holy rear, and your god doesn't take kindly to people who aren't brown nosers.

[falcon9]

In effect,God gives people what they want:Forgiveness of their sins thorugh Jesus Christ's Atonement or punishement for their sins by Eternal Seperation from God.

Oh, that's cute. Yes, that's exactly what us nonbelievers want: to be in unbearable pain forever. Keep telling yourself that! It helps distract from the absurd and illogical cruelty of the situation!

For a further and contextually-related example of the illogical absurdities pertaining; a look at "soteriology" and the ransom theory of "salvation" is quite revealing, (if not 'uncomfortable' to contemplate for xtians).

[sfister65]

why would he make us out of his goodness if thats why he did... if some ppl go to hell... how could that be good if he knew some would go to hell and he made them anyways? wouldn't those ppl rather have not been made? and how could he torture them eternally?

Free will. HE isn't making them go to hell. That is desided by the life that they (man/woman) choice to live. They get one chance to repent their sins and if they don't then hell is where they end up.

[falcon9]

Free will. HE isn't making them go to hell. That is desided by the life that they (man/woman) choice to live. They get one chance to repent their sins and if they don't then hell is where they end up.

Which part of that coercive threat allows for a free-willed choice?  What, it's expected that someone will choose " ...a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time..."?
-- George Carlin, (from his album "You Are All Diseased")

[queenofnines]

Free will, shmee will! Every time Christians use this term incorrectly, I want to puke! Where on earth did you people's common sense go??

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1CE5D4A0E35E651C&feature=plcp

[cford6]

Whenever it comes to debating god and religion there will always be people with different beliefs and it is a touchy subject. But what one believes depends on what they were taught growing up as a child.

[falcon9]

Free will, shmee will! Every time Christians use this term incorrectly, I want to puke! Where on earth did you people's common sense go??

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1CE5D4A0E35E651C&feature=plcp

Religious adherents often seem particularly reluctant to apply reasoning/logic/rationality to their religious contentions/beliefs.  Instead, they prefer pseudo-rationality, (a sort of unviable hybrid between logic and illogic).

[queenofnines]

what one believes depends on what they were taught growing up as a child.

So you're saying people are not capable of thinking for themselves as an adult?

[falcon9]

what one believes depends on what they were taught growing up as a child.

So you're saying people are not capable of thinking for themselves as an adult?

Apparently, only those unable/unwilling to break free of the chains of such brain-washing/propagandizing/proselytizing which was imposed at an early age, (or even afterword).


"I look forward to the day the cross sits discarded beside the swastika as just another reminder of the dangers of blind faith."
~ Craig Smith