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Topic: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?  (Read 21085 times)

jford87

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #150 on: January 06, 2014, 08:55:43 am »
I live in the United States of America. I believe that our Constitution protects equal rights for EVERYONE in our country. That means that if a gay person cannot marry the person they love, but a straight person can, they are not equals. Therefore it is in direct violation of the constitution not to allow gays to marry.
Personally, I believe that each person should choose their path and that others do not have the right to decide what is right for anyone but themselves.

vp44

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #151 on: January 06, 2014, 09:54:26 am »
If the Bible did not exist? What would you say about this?

BJohnsonPP

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #152 on: January 06, 2014, 10:31:48 am »
I've answered the first one before.Put simply,it's to protect someone from being wrongly sentenced to death.If the victim  dies two weeks after getting beaten,it's probably not the beating he died from. 

It has absolutely nothing to do with justice as you're trying to portray it. Even if it did, it's clearly not for the slave. All it takes is for the slave to die on the 3rd day, when it would be very clear that they died from injuries received from their beating, but that's all it would take for their assailant to face no punishment at all. 

And it's not "someone" it's specifically slave owners. We're not talking about someone being wrongly accused and sentenced, we're talking about slavers known for beating their slaves. There would be no guidelines for this common practice otherwise.

What you're dancing around though is that you have to accept slavery as being ok, you have to accept the ownership of human beings as property, you have to accept beating another human being severely enough that they could die within a day or two from their injuries, and you accept someone beating another human being essentially to death and getting away with it, as long as they hold out for 3 days.

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The other is a popular one."God makes women marry their rapist"It's actually there to protect the woman,to see that she and any potential children are cared for.In those days if a woman wasn't a virgin,she wouldn't be allowed to marry.(No "respectable" man would,and she would be in danger of being condemned for prostitution.)

It's beyond disturbing that you can write this at all, be ok with it, and not see the glaring issues it has. Women were treated as property. This had nothing to do with protecting the woman. It had to do with her being damaged goods the father now had to get off of his hands.

Really? Being forced to marry someone that has zero respect for your personhood, so much so that they feel they can violate you and take what they want from you without your consent, is considered "protection" to you? That's in the best interest of the woman though she has no say in the matter? She has to live with this savage for the rest of her life and that makes sense to you? (I say the rest of her life, because if rape is a reason to get married, I don't see what could possibly be a reason for divorce). What, he's going to settle down, have a few kids and change his ways?

What is wrong with you? If this was your mother, daughter, or sister, would you accept this?

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The "other" sin falls under "perversion" which also (you guessed it) includes homosexuality.

In typical fashion, you avoided the question here. He asked how you could condone harsher punishment for laying with a beast over the rape of a woman. Rape an animal, you die, rape a woman, you get a new family.

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Not that I expect our resident atheists to except or understand any of that.

Wow, you're actually being smug about accepting the fact that your god and your bible condone slavery, rape, and treating women as property and less than animals?

You are clueless beyond belief. We're not asking you to explain these passages to us. Trust me, we've already read them and understand them. We're asking why you accept them. None of this is ok. Do you not get that?

You mention a woman marrying her rapist to avoid being accused of being a prostitute. We understand that this is the case, what we don't understand is why you accept blaming the victim as ok. This society that your god laid down the rules for and presided over has women living amongst savages and they (the women) are punished for the savagery carried out against them.

None of this is right. It never has been and it never will be, and you know this. Acknowledging this would force you to question your beliefs, so instead it's the evil immoral atheist that has the problem. This must be the case in order for you to continue to avoid the thought that your bible and your god are not what you want to believe they are.

hitch0403

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #153 on: January 06, 2014, 01:11:22 pm »
I will try to get to them all eventually.....Exodus 21:20

This Scripture talks about a Hebrew slave owner was permitted to strike his slave whether male or female with a stick if the slave was disobedient or rebellious. But if the slave died under the beating, the slave owner was to be punished. If the slave lived "for a day or two days" after the beating this would be evidence indicating that the slave owner did not murder his slave. The slave owner did have the right to disciplinary punishment, the slave was "his money."

It would be unlikely for a man to want to destroy something of his own valuable property, therefore suffering a loss. Also if the slave died a day or more, it might not be certain whether death was from the beating or from some other cause. So if the slave lived a day or two, the master wouldn't be punished.

BJohnsonPP

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #154 on: January 06, 2014, 01:23:44 pm »

hitch0403

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #155 on: January 06, 2014, 01:31:00 pm »
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If an unscrupulous man felt at liberty to have sex relations with a virgin, she would be the primary loser. Besides the possibility that she might have an illegitimate child, her value as a bride was diminished, for many Israelites might not want to marry her once she was no longer a virgin. What, though, would discourage a man from taking liberties with a virgin? God’s “holy and righteous and good” Law would.—Romans 7:12.

BJohnsonPP

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #156 on: January 06, 2014, 01:33:09 pm »


The only "righteous, holy, and good law" would be one that abolishes slavery, doesn't condone owning people as property, and punishes rapists, and only the rapist, for their crime and not the victim.

It's unbelievable that you would think anything short of that is "righteous and good". I have no use for the word "holy". Given what your god and you think is "good", it should be easy to see why.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 01:45:05 pm by BJohnsonPP »

hitch0403

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #157 on: January 06, 2014, 02:10:05 pm »
Leviticus 20......

23 Statutes on blood and other matters (17:1–20:27). This section sets out many statutes for the people. Once again blood is prohibited in one of the most explicit statements on blood to be found anywhere in the Scriptures. (17:10-14) Blood may properly be used on the altar, but not for eating. Detestable practices, such as incest, sodomy, and bestiality, are forbidden. There are regulations for the protection of the afflicted, the lowly, and the alien, and the command is given, “You must love your fellow as yourself. I am Jehovah.” (19:18) The social and economic well-being of the nation is guarded, and spiritual dangers, such as the worship of Molech and spiritism, are outlawed, with death as the penalty. Again God emphasizes separateness for his people: “And you must prove yourselves holy to me, because I Jehovah am holy; and I am proceeding to divide you off from the peoples to become mine.”—20:26.

JediJohnnie

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #158 on: January 06, 2014, 02:24:05 pm »
Congrats,PP,your childishness finally earned you a spot among the ignored!B'bye! ;D

Google JediJohnnie and May the Force be with you!

BJohnsonPP

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #159 on: January 06, 2014, 02:43:58 pm »
You side with slavery and rape, but so called "childishness" is what you absolutely can't stand for. Yeah, you're really taking a stand there  ::)

Falconer02

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #160 on: January 06, 2014, 03:34:11 pm »
The amount of ignorant, delusional, and immoral behavior by the christian side here is easy to see. I'm not trying to be offensive here either- nobody seems to want to explain how these scriptures (when put on the same table with homosexuality) are logical and moral ways to go about things. Instead all I see is blind faith put in barbaric teachings.

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Congrats,PP,your childishness finally earned you a spot among the ignored!B'bye!

I should really write to the moderators here and ask that whenever JJ posts, it automatically deletes the text and puts this link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4dVEVCJ__A

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It would be unlikely for a man to want to destroy something of his own valuable property, therefore suffering a loss. Also if the slave died a day or more, it might not be certain whether death was from the beating or from some other cause. So if the slave lived a day or two, the master wouldn't be punished.

HITCH- I didn't originally ask for a lesson in context, though I do appreciate the research done. My questions about those scriptures are these-

Without diving into the whole convenient and naive "Slavery was a lot different back then!" fallacies, how is owning people and justifying the beating of them a moral law?

How can one justify a harsher punishment for beest-eeality (filter override) over the rape of a woman?

I recommend reading mine and Johnson's posts before you answer since I think we brought up some more issues within them.

hitch0403

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #161 on: January 06, 2014, 03:58:25 pm »
Mr Johnson and Falconer i wanna ask you 2 something before continuing this discussion.....

Both your views about God.Does he exist OR do you just dis-agree with his rules,counsel,laws etc?

BTW Falconer thanx for thanking me for my research...LOL!!

mythociate

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #162 on: January 06, 2014, 04:02:18 pm »
O-M-FSM! This thread IS NOT 'The Existence of a Totally Logical God: Where Do You Stand?' it's "Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?" Now, some of you may regard 'the latest translation of the inspired word of God' as the ground you stand on; but the Constitution of the United States (and the U.S. Declaration of Independence, based on 19th century French intellect) is written for "We the People," not 'We the Specially Chosen by God/Allah/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster!'

Now, should I 'report to moderator' any further church-V-state blabber?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------That's what a Pharisee might say today. You now have the chance to respond as my mentor Jesus-of-Joseph would, and I pray that you will!

hitch0403

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #163 on: January 06, 2014, 04:14:23 pm »
And i will answer that last post what the apostles said at Act 5:29....

Obeying God as ruler NOT men!!

Falconer02

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Re: Gay Marriage: Where do you stand?
« Reply #164 on: January 06, 2014, 05:19:08 pm »
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Both your views about God.Does he exist OR do you just dis-agree with his rules,counsel,laws etc?

I do not believe in any defined god, so I do not believe in your god in the same sense I would not believe Zeus exists. Therefore I don't believe in any of the rules these gods supposedly set. I'm not saying they're all wrong, but the fact that these rules were made in barbaric ancient times and seem to apply to those times only, it's pretty clear that they were created (and condoned) by man and not a god.

An omniscient all-knowing loving god would know that homosexuality is a natural occurrence, and a universal law on the issue would be a law of equality between straight/bi/gay couples. Instead it is not. It shows flaws in basic logic, so I don't see how one can think a god would allow this.

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the Constitution of the United States (and the U.S. Declaration of Independence, based on 19th century French intellect) is written for "We the People," not 'We the Specially Chosen by God/Allah/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster!'

Exactly. No religion should have a final say in this cultural topic. The talk of religion in this thread is just to show how absurd the idea is for religion to have a say in this.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 05:22:40 pm by Falconer02 »

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