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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: lynnc35 on November 02, 2011, 10:38:04 pm
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I think this country needs some major change. I was reviewing the charts and see where the tax income for the poor and middle class has been on the rise since the 70's and when you look at the line that shows for the rich, it hasn't hardly moved at all. Another wards they are paying the same taxes they paid in the 70's while making more and more money, and middle class and poor are paying more, so we are basically supporting them, add to that bailing out their banks, buying their cars, paying their mortgages, when will this end?
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I don't know... living is challenging whether you are the 1% or the 99%.
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I think this country needs some major change. I was reviewing the charts and see where the tax income for the poor and middle class has been on the rise since the 70's and when you look at the line that shows for the rich, it hasn't hardly moved at all. Another wards they are paying the same taxes they paid in the 70's while making more and more money, and middle class and poor are paying more, so we are basically supporting them, add to that bailing out their banks, buying their cars, paying their , when will this end?
i agree with you on that
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What should the rate they pay matter? Personally I say we should all pay the same rate regardless of income, after all that is only fair and only under such a system will everyone have skin in the game. After all it is easy to "buy votes" with claiming to raise taxes when the bottom 47% pay no taxes at all. Democracies have historically become Oligarchies through divisive methods such as these...fortunately we are not a democracy but even in a Republic such as ours such can be used as tools for votes to corrode at our very foundation (and has happened quite a bit since the founding).
The top 1% pay 36% of the taxes, the top 5% pay 58% of the taxes, the top 10% pay 70% of the taxes, the top 25% pay 87% of the taxes, and the top 50% pay 97.7% of the taxes. You are falling victim to this class warfare tactic that is being deliberately used to get you to feel hostility towards your fellow Americans. When your elected leaders, charged with protecting All Americans are intentionally trying to turn you against other Americans you should readily take notice and rally against such activities.
This 99% you speak of is a fallacy and a tool constructed by the liberals/socialists/anarchists to try and covey strength and consensus by taking a segment of the population that is not the top 1% and presenting them as if they are some how in agreement with each other -- make no mistake they are not. I am against everything this so called 99% stands for and I am not in the 1% and have never been in the 1%. I consider these liberals/socialists/anarchists to be my enemies and enemies of the US. Their aims serve no other purpose but to bring down our nation or to gain personal advance as beggars without having to actually undergo the humiliation of begging (they want to victimize the industrious and portray the lazy and worthless as victims). I have far too much pride in myself and my abilities to every follow any such movement. If the lines are ever formed the 99% will see me on the other side in contention...they can recognize me by my large and proud stature, my simple and efficient attire, and my massive spiked club.
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Thank you, Abrupt, for a very good patriotic explanation. I agree with you 100%. The most afir taxation system would be to have one set rate regardless of income, with no loopholes. That would allow anyone to pursue the American Dream.
I just submitted a letter to the editor in a local paper, explaining how the Ocuupy Wall street movement is Communist. They are following the same pattern as the so-called people in most of the other countries that succumbed to Communism, especially Russia and China. I hope the American people wake up before we start having a revolution which will destroy our republic.
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I agree with the fact that everyone should pay the same rate and with no loopholes. It is one of the ways we can stabilize our economy.
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Pro and for the 99% all the way. I've had only part time and temporary work for over 2 years now. My family has helped me out tremendously. I believe our country is on the way to communist, but not because of the Occupy movements, the gov't dictates just about everything we can and can not do anymore. I'm am in total support of the Occupy-ists, except those who aren't peaceful. A certain Republican caused me to recently get laid off by putting a halt to the work we were doing. I most definitely think the rich need to pay their share...and then some to make up for all the past years. If I was rich, I'd want it to be that way too.
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I think everyone should pay the same amount of taxes but I am not really good with understanding it all. I do know single men pay higher taxes than women when it comes to our pay checks. So I really don't know. I think the government charges to much taxes on everything anyway they could cut the budget by cutting all there elaberate exspesses.
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Pro and for the 99% all the way. I've had only part time and temporary work for over 2 years now. My family has helped me out tremendously. I believe our country is on the way to communist, but not because of the Occupy movements, the gov't dictates just about everything we can and can not do anymore. I'm am in total support of the Occupy-ists, except those who aren't peaceful. A certain Republican caused me to recently get laid off by putting a halt to the work we were doing. I most definitely think the rich need to pay their share...and then some to make up for all the past years. If I was rich, I'd want it to be that way too.
So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
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I totally agree with you!!! I think the rich man is getting richer and the poor man is getting poorer!!! I am tired of it also!!
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I saw an article in the paper this morning that said they want to close down the big banks. I'm afraid all that would accomplish is putting thousands of bank employees in the unemployent line too. They are the ones that would be hurt by that. :BangHead: :BangHead:
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dude i really dont know how we are going to change this. i dont even know if obama should be elected for a 2nd term. i really dont. people are stupid and the rich should be taxed ..us poor people and middle class people dont have money to pay taxes to begin with so we work under the table so we dont get taxed. we need as much money as possible so we can survive.
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I think this country needs some major change. I was reviewing the charts and see where the tax income for the poor and middle class has been on the rise since the 70's and when you look at the line that shows for the rich, it hasn't hardly moved at all. Another wards they are paying the same taxes they paid in the 70's while making more and more money, and middle class and poor are paying more, so we are basically supporting them, add to that bailing out their banks, buying their cars, paying their mortgages, when will this end?
Not sure what you were looking at, but all income tax rates are down from the 70's and that includes middle and lower class. It's certainly not on the rise.
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dude i really dont know how we are going to change this. i dont even know if obama should be elected for a 2nd term. i really dont. people are stupid and the rich should be taxed ..us poor people and middle class people dont have money to pay taxes to begin with so we work under the table so we dont get taxed. we need as much money as possible so we can survive.
One thing I stress is that the tax system be somehow equal among all people. You must realize the unfairness that can come about when taxing certain people disproportionately from others. You can effective buy votes that way and leverage class warfare (which is happening now). It would be one thing if taxes were increased proportionately but when you just increase/decrease on a certain group you are positioning our votes to be corruptible (after all one could say "elect me and I will remove all your taxes and tax the other guys 50%" and as long as their are more from your group than the other group you can buy an election that way without spending a dime. Now I am not saying we cannot have different base tax rates, but I am saying that if it is decided that taxes have to be increased then this rate, say 10% for instance, must be applied to the poor as well as the rich. For those that don't pay taxes and receive benefits they must have their benefits reduced by the same %. This is the only way that fairness can be maintained while having different levels of base taxation. It also makes it impossible to levy class warfare based off of tax rates and impossible to buy votes with a taxing scheme.
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I agree with Abrupt 100%. If these people really wanted a job they wouldn't be out there trying to take from someone else. Where do they think the jobs come from? The companies that are being taxed to death and regulated to death are closing down or moving overseas. Gee I wonder why!!
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I agree with Abrupt 100%. If these people really wanted a job they wouldn't be out there trying to take from someone else. Where do they think the jobs come from? The companies that are being taxed to death and regulated to death are closing down or moving overseas. Gee I wonder why!!
You can get even more of an understand of how these people think when you realize that they want to punish companies that leave...and that seems rather petty and vindictive to me. I think that most of them are under the odd impression that these companies actually take money from them somehow. I am not sure how people get to think that way but quite possibly it comes from political rhetoric or even more likely their own ignorance and ineptness.
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The ninety nine percent also use more of the country's resources and federal aid programs than the one percent. The one percent aren't using food stamps, medicare/medicaid, welfare, unemployment, workmen's compensation, planned parenthood, or public schools. The one percent are, generally, creating more opportunity for the ninety nine percent. As far as the tax rates for today being the same as they were in the seventies: the income is all in direct proportion. There are less federally subsidized programs than there were back in the seventies but that is because people took advantage of them and politicians used them for their own gain.
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I hope it ends soon because this country is already in shambles. If something doesn't happen soon then we will surely sink to unprecedented levels in the world from a competitive stand point. But more importantly, we will see a true revolution because people like us aren't gonna go for it for too much longer.
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
Tax cuts never harm the economy, only government spending does -- your claim would be like me saying "by not robbing my neighbor I am losing money". Yes the wars cost money, but the military also costs money to operate even when not in war so you must figure the difference. The military is an enumerated responsibility of the government and it has to be maintained at a level capable of dealing with threats. What criminals on Wall Street? I know there are some but can you name any? The real criminals are in the government and they are the only ones that can expose us to this level of economic risk. They have done it with all the damned social programs that steal the majority of our money in the form of taxes. These are things that are not enumerated powers of the federal government and they only put us at risk as is obvious from the current mess. The bail outs were also a form of socialism and had nothing at all to do with capitalism and the companies and banks should have been allowed to fail.
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I don't agree with the 99.9%. Somewheres along the line everyone has sure got their priorities screwed up that's all I can say. I think the bottom line is people are lazy and they expect other people to do the things that really need to be done. My question is who is ever going to do the real work that needs to be done and it certainly is not going to be the people who keep getting elected that's for sure. :wave:
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
Tax cuts never harm the economy, only government spending does -- your claim would be like me saying "by not robbing my neighbor I am losing money". Yes the wars cost money, but the military also costs money to operate even when not in war so you must figure the difference. The military is an enumerated responsibility of the government and it has to be maintained at a level capable of dealing with threats. What criminals on Wall Street? I know there are some but can you name any? The real criminals are in the government and they are the only ones that can expose us to this level of economic risk. They have done it with all the damned social programs that steal the majority of our money in the form of taxes. These are things that are not enumerated powers of the federal government and they only put us at risk as is obvious from the current mess. The bail outs were also a form of socialism and had nothing at all to do with capitalism and the companies and banks should have been allowed to fail.
I dunno, seems Bush's tax cuts are kind of hurting the economy. Did you bother to look at that graph? ::)
I'll agree that the banks should've failed. But since they own the government, that wasn't going to happen. Privatize the profits, socialize the risks.
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I am reading Ron Paul's book "Liberty Defined". He gives very thorough and straight forward analysis on many important issues we face in America. We have many unnecessary programs and institutions set up. Government has gotten too big and is interfering with our liberty.
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
Tax cuts never harm the economy, only government spending does -- your claim would be like me saying "by not robbing my neighbor I am losing money". Yes the wars cost money, but the military also costs money to operate even when not in war so you must figure the difference. The military is an enumerated responsibility of the government and it has to be maintained at a level capable of dealing with threats. What criminals on Wall Street? I know there are some but can you name any? The real criminals are in the government and they are the only ones that can expose us to this level of economic risk. They have done it with all the damned social programs that steal the majority of our money in the form of taxes. These are things that are not enumerated powers of the federal government and they only put us at risk as is obvious from the current mess. The bail outs were also a form of socialism and had nothing at all to do with capitalism and the companies and banks should have been allowed to fail.
I dunno, seems Bush's tax cuts are kind of hurting the economy. Did you bother to look at that graph? ::)
I'll agree that the banks should've failed. But since they own the government, that wasn't going to happen. Privatize the profits, socialize the risks.
Yes I looked at the graph, but you cannot count "money not stolen" as an expense or a loss and that is exactly what that graph does. The government doesn't generate any money other than what it steals from us and therefore it should not be spending any money other than what it is rightfully authorized to steal/take from us (taxes for defense/roads and some other stuff but not all these socialists programs that is the majority of government spending). Again to my theft analogy: I can rob all of my neighbors every month and use that money for a new car/home but if I were to decide to reduce the amount I stole from them I think it would be quite foolish of me to blame that as the reason for my financial troubles instead of the fact that I took a loan out on a car/home that I couldn't afford in the first place.
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I saw an interesting video about how income range has much more to do with inequality than how much you make in general. It said for instance that Japan and Norway had very different methods for achieving a smaller income range. In Norway there is heavy taxation on those that make more money and very good benefits that make up for the low income workers. This evens out the income gap. However in Japan everyone has very similar wages from the beginning with low tax rates. Both methods have improved quality of life in those countries. The US is considered to have the largest income discrepancy with the poor earning much less than the rich with no real way to bring the two sides closer together and with the disappearance of the middle class we are farther from wage equality than every before. The presentation was able to show that mortality rates, teen pregnancy and other negative social factors were more common in places with higher wage differences and less in countries that had lower wage differences. This may not show causality but at least it seems somewhat related although there may be other factors that influence it.
So I do think that wage inequality is not fair and it hurt our society. It doesn't make sense that the CEOs make so much more when they rely on everyone below them to do their job (sometimes with poor working conditions, no benefits and minimum wage). Why do they get large benefit packages, retirement and bonuses when they have employees under them barely making ends meet. I'm not saying there isn't more responsibility involved in being a CEO or that all workers should get paid the same rate. Companies rely on the masses and that 99% to stay in business they should realized that taking away the ability to purchase goods and services not only hurts the company it hurts everyone. The free market system can work it just needs less greed and power on top.
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
That is a report on the deficit in the government’s budget and not a report on the economy as a whole. One should not be mistaken for the other.
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lol did anyone see the southpark episode on this topic last week?
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:BangHead:I used to protect the 1 %, and that is my shame. But I was young and dumb and did not know they were selling the 99% down the river, I will not do that again.
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Use an equal tax rate for everyone... be it 15% or 18%, or whatever. Quit giving businesses free money to hire people, and all the other incentives. I worked in human resources the last 7 years, and I hired over 500 people each year. Their jobs were short lived, high stress call center type jobs. The company got more money in tax incentives for hiring people than they did keeping good employees. Then these same employees keep falling back into the unemployment roles. It's a never ending gimmick that promotes the corporate wealth over the working American. Get rid of the freebies to corporations and start holding large companies accountable for their high unemployment rates and quit making it profitable for companies to hire daily when they simply use excuses to fire within a few months to keep hiring for more free government money.
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I don't know... living is challenging whether you are the 1% or the 99%.
Really?
Goldman Sachs paid its top five executives a total of $69.6 million in cash and stock last year....
El Paso CEO Douglas Foshee is in line for exit pay of $91 million...
Ford paid CEO Alan Mulally more than $26.5 million in salary and stock compensation last year....
Total pay for Comcast CEO Roberts increased 14% to $31.1 million in 2010, while his No. 2, Steve Burke, received $34.7 million in compensation last year.
And these companies are laying off Americans, so the whole "job creators" argument doesn't work. So, exactly what challenges does someone who earns 26.5 million a year face?
More executive pay from the Wall St Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/public/page/executive-pay.html
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I don't know... living is challenging whether you are the 1% or the 99%.
Really?
Goldman Sachs paid its top five executives a total of $69.6 million in cash and stock last year....
El Paso CEO Douglas Foshee is in line for exit pay of $91 million...
Ford paid CEO Alan Mulally more than $26.5 million in salary and stock compensation last year....
Total pay for Comcast CEO Roberts increased 14% to $31.1 million in 2010, while his No. 2, Steve Burke, received $34.7 million in compensation last year.
And these companies are laying off Americans, so the whole "job creators" argument doesn't work. So, exactly what challenges does someone who earns 26.5 million a year face?
More executive pay from the Wall St Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/public/page/executive-pay.html
Their challenge is how to spend all that money, while finding as many tax loopholes as possible. ;D
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So basically you say the fault lies with the government. You hint at a fear of us becoming communistic. You then say you side with the communists and are in direct opposition to the capitalists. I don't understand you, instead of rightfully blaming the government for its abuses and intrusions you blame hardworking Americans for their efforts. Virtually all of the fault with the economy right now lies with the socialistic aspects of our government and its continuing hunger to intrude in our lives and dictate our every action -- instead of blaming and holding them accountable you instead focus on the few Americans who have enough ingenuity to still thrive under such constraints.
That is utter and complete BS. The economy's in the tank because of things like 1) the Bush tax cuts 2) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 3) the criminals on Wall Street taking irresponsible risks and blowing the economy up. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036 (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036)
That is a report on the deficit in the government’s budget and not a report on the economy as a whole. One should not be mistaken for the other.
You're right, my bad.
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That said, the economy still got blowed up real good by Wall Street. They're the ones to blame. If you want to blame the government, at least acknowledge that the government is largely owned by Wall Street.
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That said, the economy still got blowed up real good by Wall Street. They're the ones to blame. If you want to blame the government, at least acknowledge that the government is largely owned by Wall Street.
Blame? Like in blame the gambler for losing a hand of cards? I don't quite think that sort of comparison works out. Wall Street is a lot about risk vs reward and loss will happen. If you have invested your money you can never expect to be guaranteed profit at no risk...and if that is what you want then you may as well sleep with your money in your mattress.
If the government is owned by Wall Street then the problem falls on us as citizens since we are the ones who give the government power. It is our faults for not vetting our leaders properly. It is our fault for allowing our government to become so large that it has its tendrils in so many areas that it actually makes us vulnerable to excessive risk and to corruption. If the government kept to it's confinements as enumerated in The Constitution then there would be little concern for Wall Street attempting to "own" the government as it would be to no avail since there would be no gain in having persuasion over an entity that has nothing to do with you. These things were warned about by our founders and anyone who has the patience to tolerate reading "The Federalist Papers" will see so much of what was warned about in existence now.
Blame Wall Street? Don't be ridiculous. If you want to blame the correct person go look in the mirror and have at it.
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Their challenge is how to spend all that money, while finding as many tax loopholes as possible. ;D
LOL! You're so right, I should have more empathy. I'm sure it's a heavy burden ;D
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I have to agree with Abrupt on this one. Very valid points.