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Discussion Boards => Off-Topic => Debate & Discuss => Topic started by: Kiki1992 on November 06, 2011, 08:57:24 pm

Title: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Kiki1992 on November 06, 2011, 08:57:24 pm
I was watching some gruesome video footage of what really happens in factories that process chickens, cows, pigs, and many other animals, and how these animals suffered and died overwhelmed with fear. These factories continue to do what they do based on the demands of the population. If the population were to go vegan, these factories would literally have to shut down and animals would have earned their rights to live in peace and be left alone.

The other side is this: a population consuming everything but meat would inevitably be a population consuming plant related foods, meaning the trees and plants would have to replace the animals and endure their suffering. Now if you think about it, the world has been trying hard to preserve trees and "going green" and that would ultimately harm the trees and plants in a major way.


Both sides come down to the simple point of preserving our planet, both animals and plants.
But what do you think? Do you think going vegan is the solution, or would a vegan population be worst than one that consumes meat?

[Note: Please answer honestly and avoid the common phrase, "To each their own." This is a debate and I want to hear your opinions. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else.]
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Falconer02 on November 06, 2011, 09:05:48 pm
I say the problem lies within population growth. More people = more food = more killing animals and plants = stretching our resources thin. Solution? Stop having 2+ kids per couple. We're at 7 billion now. That's more than enough!
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 06, 2011, 09:50:18 pm
My step-sister has a t-shirt which reads, "If You Hate Animals, Become A Vegan And Eat All Their Food".
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: queenofnines on November 07, 2011, 02:15:03 pm
Solution? Stop having 2+ kids per couple. We're at 7 billion now. That's more than enough!

Agreed!  One of the greatest contributions a person an make to the environment is to not reproduce.

While the practices of factory farming are indeed awful, you have to remember that the majority of these animals would not exist if the demand for meat weren't what it is.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: mtmailey on November 07, 2011, 02:19:22 pm
people will always lust after meat
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: ashleyxatrocity on November 07, 2011, 03:26:23 pm
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times. I'm not trying to sound like a cold hearted person in regards to our furry and feathered friends, but if an animal is being raised for consumption, then does it really matter how they're being treated pre-slaughter? (Except, of course, that they're being treated hygienically because nobody wants diseases.) :thumbsup:
I agree with falconer that some population control is definitely in order. I personally, don't want to be on a fast path to Soylent Green.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: jaymz462 on November 07, 2011, 03:35:33 pm
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times. I'm not trying to sound like a cold hearted person in regards to our furry and feathered friends, but if an animal is being raised for consumption, then does it really matter how they're being treated pre-slaughter? (Except, of course, that they're being treated hygienically because nobody wants diseases.) :thumbsup:
I agree with falconer that some population control is definitely in order. I personally, don't want to be on a fast path to Soylent Green.

It certainly does- they're still living, breathing creatures who can feel pain and other emotions.  Even if they're just being raised for food, we should at least be humane about it.

Proud vegan right here  8)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: ashleyxatrocity on November 07, 2011, 03:40:11 pm
It certainly does- they're still living, breathing creatures who can feel pain and other emotions.  Even if they're just being raised for food, we should at least be humane about it.

Proud vegan right here  8)

The people who run those farms with animals raised for food on them are also "living, breathing creatures who can feel pain and other emotions" yet they are subject to abuse from vegans such as yourself. :o
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Falconer02 on November 08, 2011, 12:11:59 pm
Quote
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times.

PETA is friggin' nuts. When you compare chickens that were bred for eating with Jews in a Concentration Camp, your organization loses all credibility right then and there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
2:12
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: trucktina on November 08, 2011, 12:23:39 pm
Quote
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times.

PETA is friggin' nuts. When you compare chickens that were bred for eating with Jews in a Concentration Camp, your organization loses all credibility right then and there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
2:12

 :thumbsup:
It also doesn't help their cause to have naked women sit around in cages.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 08, 2011, 01:59:36 pm
Quote
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times.

PETA is friggin' nuts. When you compare chickens that were bred for eating with Jews in a Concentration Camp, your organization loses all credibility right then and there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
2:12

 :thumbsup:
It also doesn't help their cause to have naked women sit around in cages.


Are you suggesting that free-range women taste better?  :o
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: ashleyxatrocity on November 08, 2011, 07:22:17 pm
Quote
I've watched the PETA "Meet Your Meat" video several times.

PETA is friggin' nuts. When you compare chickens that were bred for eating with Jews in a Concentration Camp, your organization loses all credibility right then and there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
2:12

Agreed. The only thing I can relate to PETA about is the whole "anti-fur" idea.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: jaymz462 on November 14, 2011, 04:12:29 pm
It certainly does- they're still living, breathing creatures who can feel pain and other emotions.  Even if they're just being raised for food, we should at least be humane about it.

Proud vegan right here  8)

The people who run those farms with animals raised for food on them are also "living, breathing creatures who can feel pain and other emotions" yet they are subject to abuse from vegans such as yourself. :o

Oh?  And how am I abusing them?  I'd really like to know.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 04:16:22 pm
What the heck, why does this conversation leave me with visions of semi-naked fur clad women in cages?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 04:18:40 pm
What the heck, why does this conversation leave me with visions of semi-naked fur clad women in cages?



It might have been triggered by this:
It also doesn't help their cause to have naked women sit around in cages.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 04:49:23 pm
I suppose, but why do they all have roses in their hands and why are they shouting my name and saying "Pick Me!"
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: depate99 on November 14, 2011, 07:16:01 pm
Coming from a vegetarian who is one by personal preference rather than by some ideal, it is not the solution.  We are inherently omnivores and man's ingenuity and resourcefulness is the eventual solution.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 07:26:26 pm
I have become allergic to some vegetables (no clue at all why).  Things like lettuce, which I love, causes me a tremendous amount of pain even if I have the tiniest sliver.  Also some grains bother me as well and a few legumes.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 08:03:50 pm
I suppose, but why do they all have roses in their hands and why are they shouting my name and saying "Pick Me!"



Not sure ... medication interactions or, deficiencies caused by a vegetarian diet?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 08:21:19 pm
I have become allergic to some vegetables (no clue at all why).  Things like lettuce, which I love, causes me a tremendous amount of pain even if I have the tiniest sliver.  Also some grains bother me as well and a few legumes.


Presumably, your vegetables get washed before use so, infused pesticides as a culprit?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 08:37:46 pm
I suppose, but why do they all have roses in their hands and why are they shouting my name and saying "Pick Me!"



Not sure ... medication interactions or, deficiencies caused by a vegetarian diet?

I don't take medication but perhaps I should...
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 08:43:26 pm
I suppose, but why do they all have roses in their hands and why are they shouting my name and saying "Pick Me!"


Not sure ... medication interactions or, deficiencies caused by a vegetarian diet?


I don't take medication but perhaps I should...


Less is likely better, depending upon what's wrong.  Could be those infused pesticides though:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/pesticides-fruits-vegetables-healthy/story?id=13831054
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 08:55:06 pm
I have become allergic to some vegetables (no clue at all why).  Things like lettuce, which I love, causes me a tremendous amount of pain even if I have the tiniest sliver.  Also some grains bother me as well and a few legumes.


Presumably, your vegetables get washed before use so, infused pesticides as a culprit?

I am fairly thorough with washing vegetables but lettuce can be problematic I guess.  I grow a lot of my own and don't use pesticides.  In the case of lettuce it was both from my garden as well as some from market.  It was only after some careful observation that I was able to identify the culprit causing the pain (granted I cannot positively say for certain as my testing method wasn't entirely controlled or anything but I went as far as to skip lunch and try just the smallest bit of lettuce around dinner).  I know about the time it occurred that I had eaten cream of wheat and salad (not together mind you) a few times in the previous days and was fine to suddenly not being able to eat either one without terrible suffering.  Having eliminated them I don't have any more problems and I am too much a coward to revisit them anytime soon.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 09:06:09 pm
I am fairly thorough with washing vegetables but lettuce can be problematic I guess.  I grow a lot of my own and don't use pesticides.  In the case of lettuce it was both from my garden as well as some from market.  It was only after some careful observation that I was able to identify the culprit causing the pain (granted I cannot positively say for certain as my testing method wasn't entirely controlled or anything but I went as far as to skip lunch and try just the smallest bit of lettuce around dinner).  I know about the time it occurred that I had eaten cream of wheat and salad (not together mind you) a few times in the previous days and was fine to suddenly not being able to eat either one without terrible suffering.  Having eliminated them I don't have any more problems and I am too much a coward to revisit them anytime soon.


If you've identified the culprit, that's good.  Is it something the rest of the populace needs to be concerned about too?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 09:23:53 pm
I am fairly thorough with washing vegetables but lettuce can be problematic I guess.  I grow a lot of my own and don't use pesticides.  In the case of lettuce it was both from my garden as well as some from market.  It was only after some careful observation that I was able to identify the culprit causing the pain (granted I cannot positively say for certain as my testing method wasn't entirely controlled or anything but I went as far as to skip lunch and try just the smallest bit of lettuce around dinner).  I know about the time it occurred that I had eaten cream of wheat and salad (not together mind you) a few times in the previous days and was fine to suddenly not being able to eat either one without terrible suffering.  Having eliminated them I don't have any more problems and I am too much a coward to revisit them anytime soon.


If you've identified the culprit, that's good.  Is it something the rest of the populace needs to be concerned about too?

YES it is!

...

Joking of course.  Actually by culprit, I meant the culprit of my pain which in my investigation seemed to strongly indicate lettuce.  I haven't tried close relatives of lettuce to see if there is a similar result and I haven't considered organism that might have a tendency to end up in lettuce naturally.  All I know is (well pretty certain I can only state) that if I eat lettuce I hurt terribly.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 09:27:30 pm
Actually by culprit, I meant the culprit of my pain which in my investigation seemed to strongly indicate lettuce.  I haven't tried close relatives of lettuce to see if there is a similar result and I haven't considered organism that might have a tendency to end up in lettuce naturally.  All I know is (well pretty certain I can only state) that if I eat lettuce I hurt terribly.



Well, the chemical components of most lettuce include a diuretic so, you might consider kidney tests if that's a cause of your pain.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 09:41:49 pm
Actually by culprit, I meant the culprit of my pain which in my investigation seemed to strongly indicate lettuce.  I haven't tried close relatives of lettuce to see if there is a similar result and I haven't considered organism that might have a tendency to end up in lettuce naturally.  All I know is (well pretty certain I can only state) that if I eat lettuce I hurt terribly.



Well, the chemical components of most lettuce include a diuretic so, you might consider kidney tests if that's a cause of your pain.

I hadn't actually considered that.  But along the lines of diuretic, I drink tons of coffee (regular, not decaf) and never encounter discomfort from it but I don't know enough about the subject to know if they would be similar.  Regarding tests, I am a bit of the stubborn and old-fashioned type and often apply the rule of "If you ignore it, it will not hurt you", and I guess that probably isn't the wisest thing to do but it is my nature.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 10:05:33 pm
Well, the chemical components of most lettuce include a diuretic so, you might consider kidney tests if that's a cause of your pain.

I hadn't actually considered that.  But along the lines of diuretic, I drink tons of coffee (regular, not decaf) and never encounter discomfort from it but I don't know enough about the subject to know if they would be similar.  Regarding tests, I am a bit of the stubborn and old-fashioned type and often apply the rule of "If you ignore it, it will not hurt you", and I guess that probably isn't the wisest thing to do but it is my nature.
 


The possible premutations of chemical reactions stymied me in high school so, I looked up lettuce:

http://www.botanical-online.com/medicinalslactucasativasangles.htm

There are all kinds of potential reactions, depending upon many different factors/variables.  I'm not diagnosing or, promoting any hypochondriac inferences; just suggesting some things to consider or not.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 14, 2011, 10:18:43 pm
Well, the chemical components of most lettuce include a diuretic so, you might consider kidney tests if that's a cause of your pain.

I hadn't actually considered that.  But along the lines of diuretic, I drink tons of coffee (regular, not decaf) and never encounter discomfort from it but I don't know enough about the subject to know if they would be similar.  Regarding tests, I am a bit of the stubborn and old-fashioned type and often apply the rule of "If you ignore it, it will not hurt you", and I guess that probably isn't the wisest thing to do but it is my nature.
 

The possible premutations of chemical reactions stymied me in high school so, I looked up lettuce:

http://www.botanical-online.com/medicinalslactucasativasangles.htm

There are all kinds of potential reactions, depending upon many different factors/variables.  I'm not diagnosing or, promoting any hypochondriac inferences; just suggesting some things to consider or not.


I found the carminative properties interesting.  The pain I experience from lettuce is what one would imagine if they were completely full and their stomach was on the verge of exploding...which would be the opposite of one would expect from a carminative.  Now dill doesn't cause me any discomfort but maybe I will test against some specialized herbs in that regard like star anise maybe.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 14, 2011, 10:29:47 pm
I found the carminative properties interesting.  The pain I experience from lettuce is what one would imagine if they were completely full and their stomach was on the verge of exploding...which would be the opposite of one would expect from a carminative.  Now dill doesn't cause me any discomfort but maybe I will test against some specialized herbs in that regard like star anise maybe.


Excellent idea.  Some people have a tendency to forget that "herbs" are as much 'drugs', (containing chemical components), as synthetics are.  Natural ones can interact with each other and with synthetics, (or, hybrid combinations of the two).  I have a cousin trained to study and discern as much as possible about potential drug interactions and she has no idea about all of the potential combinations.  It's almost like chaos theory and 'islands of stability' when it comes to chemical mixtures.  Some stuff just makes inert ooze, some explodes and some insidiuously affects biological properties in ways which aren't yet understood.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Abrupt on November 15, 2011, 08:34:44 pm
I found the carminative properties interesting.  The pain I experience from lettuce is what one would imagine if they were completely full and their stomach was on the verge of exploding...which would be the opposite of one would expect from a carminative.  Now dill doesn't cause me any discomfort but maybe I will test against some specialized herbs in that regard like star anise maybe.


Excellent idea.  Some people have a tendency to forget that "herbs" are as much 'drugs', (containing chemical components), as synthetics are.  Natural ones can interact with each other and with synthetics, (or, hybrid combinations of the two).  I have a cousin trained to study and discern as much as possible about potential drug interactions and she has no idea about all of the potential combinations.  It's almost like chaos theory and 'islands of stability' when it comes to chemical mixtures.  Some stuff just makes inert ooze, some explodes and some insidiuously affects biological properties in ways which aren't yet understood.

That is sort of along the lines of me forgetting that fruits/vegetables also have properties to them.  I tend to remember it for herbs and spices but will start thinking closer on fruits/vegetables as well from now on.  I guess the tendency of people is to ignore the common and only assume that efficacy can only come from synthetics and pharmaceuticals and potent concentrates.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 15, 2011, 08:44:29 pm
That is sort of along the lines of me forgetting that fruits/vegetables also have properties to them.  I tend to remember it for herbs and spices but will start thinking closer on fruits/vegetables as well from now on.  I guess the tendency of people is to ignore the common and only assume that efficacy can only come from synthetics and pharmaceuticals and potent concentrates.



That may be an almost inherent tendency to 'forget' that active chemicals can be found in anything consumed.  Some are in low concentrations, some are in combinations with unknown interactive effects and some taste so good that we 'forget' on purpose.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: tzs on November 16, 2011, 03:58:32 pm
You know what, ther is no solution!!! Vegetarianism is what it is and it will never change. I myself could care less. I go to my uncle Kerry's farm and I see his cows... with their beautiful big brown eyes and black eyelashes, and I tell my Uncle "they are soooo Cute!" Reguardless, they will end up on someones dinner plate somehow, just like people have been doing for years. Not really concerned with the process. All I know is that human beings need protein from animals to be healthy, and its their choice if they dont want to eat it or not. More for meeeeee!!!!! :wave:
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: falcon9 on November 16, 2011, 04:40:00 pm
All I know is that human beings need protein from animals to be healthy, and its their choice if they dont want to eat it or not. More for meeeeee!!!!! :wave:


Although there's no conclusive evidence differentiating animal protein and vegetable proteins, (despite variations in chemical compositions of the proteins), we're evolved as omnivores - we can eat either plants or animals, or both.

A few years back I had taken my mom out to dinner for her birthday.  She ordered a filet mignon steak and asked for very rare.  The waiter paused when she told him to "walk the cow by the fire and show it the flames, that's how rare."  I just go for medium-rare.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: batmobile on November 17, 2011, 07:28:46 pm
I was watching some gruesome video footage of what really happens in factories that process chickens, cows, pigs, and many other animals, and how these animals suffered and died overwhelmed with fear. These factories continue to do what they do based on the demands of the population. If the population were to go vegan, these factories would literally have to shut down and animals would have earned their rights to live in peace and be left alone.

The other side is this: a population consuming everything but meat would inevitably be a population consuming plant related foods, meaning the trees and plants would have to replace the animals and endure their suffering. Now if you think about it, the world has been trying hard to preserve trees and "going green" and that would ultimately harm the trees and plants in a major way.


Both sides come down to the simple point of preserving our planet, both animals and plants.
But what do you think? Do you think going vegan is the solution, or would a vegan population be worst than one that consumes meat?

[Note: Please answer honestly and avoid the common phrase, "To each their own." This is a debate and I want to hear your opinions. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else.]
um... i like meat. not eating enough protein is unhealthy. u wanna save the world kill off man kind. ha ha ::)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: jaymz462 on November 19, 2011, 07:46:23 am
I'm waiting for the aliens to do that.  Or the robots.  Or the robotic aliens.

Heck, we'll probably just do it ourselves  :P
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: frozenimage on November 21, 2011, 01:11:34 am
until the day scientist learns how to grow vegetables that taste like steak, I'm not buying it. Vegetables seems to be more of fillers rather than entrees.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: Graeth on November 21, 2011, 10:37:03 pm
My step-sister has a t-shirt which reads, "If You Hate Animals, Become A Vegan And Eat All Their Food".


I want that shirt....now.

And I agree with the kids control idea.
All the couples that shouldn't be having kids---bad parenting, bad family life, cant support themselves let a lone a family; are the ones having children.
I think Johnathan Swift was the guy who proposed eating all the poor people.
I think its time for the idea to be revisited.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism: the solution?
Post by: quietpal on November 26, 2011, 10:40:45 pm
I don't think that is the solution. A lot of animals are fed grains, instead of grass, which is healthier. Grass-fed beef has more of the nutrients that we as humans need.