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Topics - Stealth3si

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61
Offers / Daily Email 08/08/10 - No link?
« on: September 08, 2010, 04:26:47 pm »Message ID: 234098
For me, there was no link to click on to receive credit. I tried 4 different browsers to no avail.

Has anyone noticed this or got credit?

62
Suggestions / Will FusionCash hire new forum moderators?
« on: July 31, 2010, 11:36:45 pm »Message ID: 214682
There are alot of FC members now.

Will FusionCash get more forum moderators?

63
Suggestions / FC forum system add new PM system with advanced feature(s.)
« on: July 31, 2010, 11:34:52 pm »Message ID: 214680
http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17195.msg213266#msg213266

The system should have a new PM service database equipped with an anti-spamming feature.

64
Suggestions / Why the Daily Survey 24 hour limit from 1 per day?
« on: July 31, 2010, 11:28:37 pm »Message ID: 214677
Daily surveys used to be able to be completed once a calendar day, but now they can be done once every 24 hours. Before I was able to have each survey done every day because the "new 24 hour time restriction" was not in place but I've noticed it has thrown my timing off.

Perhaps this new measure was in place for a very good reason. I want to know why.

I also want to know other FC users' experiences with this recent "24 hour lockdown," for lack of a better term.

65
Support / Post-mania contest and $3 monthly forum posting bonus.
« on: June 29, 2010, 12:52:17 am »Message ID: 199295
Do posts from the Post-mania contest count towards the 30 posts required to qualify for $3 monthly forum posting bonus?

Edit: Nvm. I just found it....

66
FusionCash / Tax form question.
« on: April 03, 2010, 01:02:53 am »Message ID: 157580
Guys, I've already submitted a support ticket for the following question but I'd figure perhaps I would get a quicker response here from the general public if I post here, if this is ok with the admin.

FusionCash, IIRC, mailed me only the "Recipient" copy for the 1099-misc tax form. There was no "IRS/government" copy for the 1099-misc tax form. Is it ok if I send a copy of the form that FusionCash mailed to me to the IRS or should I have FusionCash mail me the "IRS/government" copy of the form so I can mail it in?

Thanks.

67
Debate & Discuss / How pop art has captured the imagination of our culture.
« on: April 01, 2010, 01:11:56 am »Message ID: 156734
Quote from: John
Some thoughts in first-draft form.

Recently I saw a prominent Christian author suggest that at its best Hollywood might aspire to "pure, innocent entertainment," leisure without the baggage of art. Now, I'm no enemy of whimsy and fun, but I must protest; pop art is still art! Movies tell stories by which we narrate our lives, often in deep and profound ways. So I want to dig in to an unlikely genre: animated children's movies. I hope we can see in two Pixar films, Toy Story and WALL·E, that even pop art can capture a whole sweep of culture, and isn't restricted to a few idle laughs.

Toy Story is, on one level, just a fun adventure about toys. Buzz Lightyear, a space ranger action figure, is introduced into the community of sheriff Woody and a host of other toys. Woody sees Buzz as a rival and plots against him; the two get into some serious trouble and become friends as they work together to return to the safety of home. We've got comedy and camaraderie, action and animation -- fun!

Yet, whether consciously or unconsciously, this film also tells a profound story that has shaped Western culture for centuries, the story of disenchantment. At the center of both the problem and solution of the film's conflicts is Buzz Lightyear's belief that he is a real space ranger, not a toy. Once he overcomes these grandiose visions of himself and his world -- his mission from Star Command aims "to infinity... and beyond!" -- he can start solving the real problems facing the toys. Once he recognizes that his enchanted world was just imaginary, he can move forward bravely and genuinely in the real, disenchanted world in which he actually lives.

This is a perfect allegory for modern stories of disenchantment, stories of "losing my religion." Richard Dawkins would be proud to tell the tale: There is no Space Command out there with a majestic mission for us, no God who comes to redeem the world unto a bright future, and if we would just give up those delusions we could concentrate on the real world in front of us and make real progress. Even more than that, when we come to grips with reality, once we let disenchantment sink in, we will be empowered to do even greater things than we imagined in our false, enchanted world.

WALL·E criticizes this story of disenchantment and offers in its place a story of re-enchantment. In a disenchanted world we are not Buzz Lightyear's space rangers, not made in the image of God, so we come to see our humanity as something that is merely incidental. In time, we regard our bodies not as beautiful and glorious expressions of the divine but rather as limitations to our aspirations of progress, prisons of weakness from which we must be freed in order to realize our true destiny. And what will liberate us from our bodily prisons? Technology. Technology becomes not a tool to help us tend the garden that is the world but a liberator to rescue us from the confines of our outdated bodies and the frustratingly weak physical creation.

The film exposes the hidden side-effects of this mythos of secular technological progress. Our lofty, if abstract, aspirations to "progress" quickly fade into a fascination with meaningless trinkets. In an instant we consume their novelties, toss them aside, and immediately turn to the next trivial pleasure in line. They may just be trinkets, but when we are consumed by them destruction follows in their wake. When trashed they remain in our world and crowd out the deeper, embodied aspirations of humanity. (This is no partisan attack on capitalism, by the way; the film's humans live in a socialistic society in which everyone receives everything without working, and that is part of the problem.) Since we regard our world as a "disenchanted" place, we are happy to dump our trash on Earth and run lightyears away in our spaceships, leaving behind robots on cleanup duty.

Protagonist WALL·E is the last robot on Earth, and somebody forgot to turn him off! For centuries our solar-powered antihero has been faithfully organizing and compacting our trash so that one day we might return. In a fascinating contrast, while we built technology to escape our feeble bodies, our technological creation WALL·E is thoroughly spellbound with the splendor of embodied humanity. At the end of the workday his curiosity explores human song and dance, and he even learns to dance himself. Notice that this is no mere environmentalist screed: The problem in the movie is not that we have failed to love Mother Gaia but that we have forgotten our humanity. This is a Christian critique of secularization, of disenchantment.

The appearance of a female robot, Eve, presents the opportunity for hope, for re-enchantment. She is sleek and advanced, representative of the future, while WALL·E is kinda dumpy to look at and has a cockroach for a best friend. This is not unlike most couples I know. Eve discovers a plant, proof that Earth may yet be salvageable, places it in her robotic "womb," and hibernates while WALL·E sacrificially cares for her. They return to the human spaceship to deliver their botanical proof that Earth's suppressed potential, where WALL·E meets humans quite opposite his embodied expectations. Rather than be a people of dancing and laughter and food, we lay on hoverchairs idly staring at screens and chatter over frivolities. WALL·E's imitation of embodied humanity inspires us to recover the simple profundity of our bodies and the physical world, and we return to Earth in the hope of "re-enchanting" it, recovering the divine stamp on all of creation.

Combined, these two films tell our story: We live in a radically disenchanted cultural world, and it is absolutely anti-human. It provides a radical critique of disenchanting secularism as tantamount to vapid dehumanization, and counters that by recovering the physical, the bodily human, we might re-enchant our world, seeing real hope and real "change you can believe in." This project of re-enchantment -- which is to say, this project of re-emphasizing the image of God in humanity and the goodness and purpose of God's created order -- in one to which Christians ought to be devoted. If we can, we will be doing something deeply orthodox yet profoundly "relevant," not in the sense of selling out to secular culture but instead in the sense of captivating people with real Christianity right where they are with the proof of where they could be.

How will we reflect on this project, and how will we go about it? The movie suggests that we may turn to dancing, to laughter, to feasting, to children, and above all to love. For the movie is at root a love story between two very different, yet still very good, genders. And isn't that true for Christians? At root, we are telling a love story between the groom Jesus who lays down his life and the bride Church who carries within her the potential future for the life of the world.

68
Suggestions / Special offers - free offers
« on: March 07, 2010, 07:45:50 pm »Message ID: 146602
Can they be organized by "payout" "name" and "newest" categories?

Can they be "ignored" e.g., removed from the list manually and automatically as well after each offer is approved?

69
Off-Topic / What do you think Heaven and Hell are?
« on: January 26, 2010, 11:32:59 pm »Message ID: 133800
The popular imagination paints 'heaven' as some sort of place with clouds and blues and odd lights. But we confess merely that we believe in the Resurrection, that there is continuity between what the present is and what the future will be. It will be "better" -- redeemed, matured, and so on -- but there is no reason to think that there won't be Best Buy and San Diego, CA in the Resurrection. There's no reason to think we won't have guitars and houses and cheeseburgers.

Heaven is not the hope of the Christian. It is not our final destination. It is not what we should be striving towards. The Resurrection is the hope of the Christian and a renewed and redeemed earth is our final destination. I highly recommend anyone who is interested to read NT Wright's Surprised by Hope on this subject.

I think that today's Christianity focuses too heavily on "going to Heaven" when you die, and not enough on the true hope of our faith, the Resurrection, which Jesus Christ initiated 2,000 years ago. True "Heaven" is the perfect, eternal state described above in Revelation 21-22, not floating about on a cloud playing a harp. 'Heaven' comes to an Earth-reborn and all is set to rights - sin and death are destroyed forever. This is our true hope!

I don't know what state a Christian is in from death until the Resurrection; I don't think the scriptures are particularly clear on that. A lot of the text is taken out of context to describe the intermediate state, when actually it applies only to the eternal Resurrected state. My best guess is that the saints (physically deceased Christians) are somehow conscious and with Christ in some way. They may have some kind of heavenly body (their true body is raised at the Resurrection) or they may exist in some spiritual form, who knows?

Or they may simply be "asleep" until the Resurrection, as the Jews and early Christians understood it. By the writing of Revelation though (62 or 90AD, depending on if you are a partial-preterist or not) , the thought seems to have advanced to the point where the departed saints have a consciousness - in the vision John mentions the saints crying out, having white robes, etc. It may be metaphorical or it may be literal, though. After all, it's a "vision" not necessarily a photograph, as they say. An "impression" or an artist's rendition of an actual event, not a journalistically/scientifically accurate depiction.

Even if it's the former (consciousness and some kind of physical state), I believe the saints will still comprehend that the intermediate state is just that - intermediate. The true hope is the Resurrection, and while the departed saints aren't sinful anymore in their current state, they aren't whole yet either because all has not been put to rights yet. I believe that if the departed saints in the intermediate state are conscious, that they are able to see what is going on "down here", are able to worship and converse with Jesus and inquire as to the goings-on "down below", but they still don't have the full knowledge of what's going to happen next. The veil has been lifted, they don't live in the same cloud we do, but they are not all-knowing. The "portals" to perceive what's happening "down here" may come and go, or they may be constant, who knows. I've always wondered (if this notion is accurate) if my Christian ancestors (or anyone, for that matter), can "look down" and see me going to the bathroom, or farting when no one is around, or hear what I'm thinking at any given moment...or helping a stranger when no one else notices. I wonder how much they are shown, if anything. If they are even conscious.

The nearest analogy I can think of is someone who goes through a pitch-black maze successfully, then taken to a back room and allowed to watch through night-vision cameras another person attempt the same maze. They have a different view on things, but they can't intervene or communicate with the person, and they can't determine or predict the outcome. But they can discuss the maze with the Designer and inquire about why there is darkness, why it was made so difficult, etc.

In any case, the intermediate state between death for a Christian, and the final Resurrection will (if we are conscious for it) be infinitely better than life "on Earth", but still nothing compared to the future glory. Of that we can be sure.

If anyone has read Randy Alcorn's novels, I think he has a pretty biblical and sound grasp on all this, especially what the intermediate state is probably like. Take with a grain of salt - he's coming from a specific theological background (as we all are), and of course there are literary liberties taken, but on the whole it at least changed my perception of the state we as Christians are in when we pass and await the Resurrection.

As for "hell," fascinatingly enough, I don't think it being a place, condition or both (more than most dilemmas offer!) are even remotely close to telling the whole story. Even stranger, I don't think "neither" would really do the trick either. If I had to attempt to consolidate the entire idea into one descriptive word, it might be an " 'un'place " by which I mean something similar to what C. S. Lewis meant when he named the antagonist in Perelandra the "unman". Whereas Weston became the Unman after everything that could be identified as human was summarily taken away, I think hell is sort of analagous to an "unplace" insofar as anything typically associated with "somewhere"--life, activity, people, surroundings, etc--is almost entirely absent. Hell is described in Scripture as being very nebulously located, as being the "outer darkness" (some "place" that is just "out there" where no one cares to look), as being associated with death and the grave ("places" no living, moving, acting soul knows anything about), etc. A place is where something is, but hell is defined by being apart, or rather, it can't be defined so much by where it is as much as it can by where it isn't. In that sense, it is very much unlike our concept of a location or a place, where we can give you directions or coordinates or some other method for finding it. Hell, however, we can only "locate" by giving a sense of general direction, "out there" in the darkness, "down there" in the grave, etc... and it's always associated with these kinds of ideas that typically connote ambiguity, hiddenness, unidentifiability, etc..

If it makes sense to talk about spiritual "places," dimensions in the spiritual realm seem to exist based on descriptions. There seem to be all four dimensions present in the spiritual realm in all recorded accounts of them. In fact existence in the spiritual realm implies that there be some form of dimensionality. Whether spiritual is something other than physical, yet with spatial dimensions (+ time) being mentioned, I really don't know all the answers, but to say the spiritual world exists is to say it has existence on a fundamental level. For it to exist, there must be dimensions in which it exists. In recorded visions and prophecies and such it seems to operate much in the same way the physical realm operates. It seems to me like its an almost separate set of dimensions with definite relationship to each other. Almost as if it is a realm in the physical that we cannot normally interact with.

Still, I find it hard to comprehend the spiritual world in any kind of literal, physical framework, of the sort which would have such things as dimensions and directions. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really think that the archangel Michael was literally running the gauntlet through Persia on his way to Daniel, in the Frank Peretti sense, was he? Is heaven really "up", or hell really "down", or is that simply a symbolic understanding of where we are in the scheme of things...

Making sense of the Biblical imagery used for heaven and hell, then, in a "not-quite-literal" sense, heaven is the place characterized by perfection, beauty, wholeness, joy, healing, life, justice and peace (shalom!). It's symbolic. It's where everything that is wrong down here is gone, and everything that is right is even more right. And Hell, then, is the outer darkness. It is where every dim little light that shines in this fallen world is absent. Where even hope for the future is gone. Where we are tormented with that loss, that hopelessness, that never-ending guilt, in a way that "eternal flame" only scratches the surface of. It is being gone from the rest of Creation in every meaningful way.

By the way, an interesting book on the subject of hell and judgment is Brian McLaren's The Last Word, and the Word After That, which is the third book in the "New Kind of Christian" trilogy.

Just as one of the characters in the book, I would challenge us all to study not only the doctrine of hell over the history of the church, but also the history of the doctrine of hell over the history of the church, and indeed the history of hell (or the afterlife, judgment, etc.) over the course of human history, from the Babylonians to the Greeks to the Romans to the Jews and so on. It was really interesting to see how our understanding (as humans and as Christians) has evolved over the centuries and millenia.

A lot of our conceptions about what hell is like, I'm afraid, are more informed by Dante's Inferno and pop culture than by the historical, social, and religious contexts the scriptures were written and compiled in. In other words, I'm afraid a lot of the time we apply our 21st -century understandings and "baggage" when it comes to hell (or any other topic for that matter) to the first-century context and wonder why it doesn't fit.

To sum up, as I heard Tim Keller say recently, "I think that the 'hellfire and brimstone' imagery is certainly metaphorical. The reality is undoubtedly much, much worse".

70
Off-Topic / Proving that God Exists
« on: January 01, 2010, 03:10:58 am »Message ID: 124976
i stop Debating with People On this Post ..because we cant convence people   that dont believe in jesus that there is one and they cant convience us that theres not..so only they can diecide for themselfs all we can do is help and go on our way  and let god take care of it ....im pretty positive thats  statement is going to start a controversy but o well
I am done replying to people like you. So have fun living in your little Godless World.
totosli_08 and marieelissa:

This was the handout at our discussion group last time.  I figured it might spark some conversation or offer a different look at 'witnessing.'

Quote
Proving The Existence of God

A common project among Christian apologists is to produce arguments which will prove the existence of God to non-Christians.  No one can deny this clear logic, it is said, and so clearly once all of the Christians’ proofs have been heard others will be compelled to become Christians.  Thomas Aquinas made use of some of Aristotle’s arguments in order to provide us with the so-called cosmological arguments, which are based on causation:

Everything in the world has a cause.
Therefore, the world must be caused from something outside of it.
That cause is God.

This is a simplified version, of course, so if there is a minor error then please ignore it.  The basic idea is this:  Doesn’t there have to be some reason, some cause for the world?  Why is there something rather than nothing?

This has been persuasive to some extent to many people.  However, in the end it only works if all sorts of Christian assumptions get smuggled into the argument.  For instance, who says that there must be a first cause?  What if there is a chain of infinite causes?  Similarly, who says that the world as a whole must have a cause, just because particular things in the world have causes?  And who said that this cause must be God?  What if it is an impersonal force or law of nature?  These questions do not end.

Another common argument is the teleological argument, the argument from design:

The world is very orderly.
Order does not come from chance, so the world must have been designed.
That designer is God.

Again, this is a bit simplified, but focus on the basic idea:  Doesn’t the world seem to “work” a bit too well to be simply the product of chance?

An older response to this argument is the Darwinist counter-interpretation:  Things appear orderly because of naturalistic evolution, the fundamental principles of which may serve to explain anything from biodiversity to the formation of galaxies.  However, more recently the “design” argument has been based on the apparent order or design in basic constants in physics, which are not said to be determined by any type of evolutionary hypothesis, so the Darwin-inspired counter-interpretation will not work in the end.  Of course, at this point we are no longer dialoguing with anyone who is amazed merely by the beauty of trees and stars, but instead only to scientists who are impressed with the mathematical precision of obscure scientific constants.

Even so, this argument still requires that all sorts of Christian assumptions be smuggled in in order to get anywhere.  For instance, if God is so great, who designed him?  Who says that this designer was personal?  What if it is just the impersonal forces and laws of nature?  Who says that there was only one designer?  What if there were all sorts of competing designers?  Who says that this designer is good?  After all, isn’t there all kinds of evil in the world, from hurricanes to murder?

I will spare you the ontological argument, but suffice it to say that all of these arguments are embarrassingly inadequate at proving anything meaningfully Christian on truly non-Christian grounds.  They can always be re-interpreted to prove whatever the re-interpreter already believes about the world, even for the atheist who believes the world is governed by impersonal forces and chance.  And if they can at all be salvaged, it will only be after such prolonged debate that no one will be convinced.

What About Christian Theology?  What Do Christians Already Know About God?

At this point I hope the Christian will stop for at least a moment to reconsider the motivations in this so-called natural theology (basically, proving God’s existence on “naturalistic” terms).  After all, the cosmological arguments come to us from Aristotle, and today’s great proponents of the teleological argument are Deists!  If we are trying to do something Christian, why are we just using shoddy, question-begging versions of arguments that are owned by prominent non-Christians?

Now, the proofs are about knowing God, so what does Christian theology have to say about how we come to know God?  In Christian theology we come to know of God by means of divine revelation.  There are two kinds of revelation – general (revelation in all of creation) and special (the Bible).  The following is a prominent text about general revelation which is often cited to promote natural theology.

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. (Psalm 19:1)

This text has been used as the basis for the design argument.  Upon further inspection, however, it has nothing to do with the design argument.  It says that the heavens declare and proclaim God’s glory, not that they serve as evidence which can be used as the primary premise in the teleological argument.  The text says that they themselves reveal God, not that there is an argument that reveals God which uses them as evidence.  While God reveals himself to us where we are, it is not on our terms.

Instead of agreeing that we come to know about God by means of God’s revelation, the “proofs” say that we know about God by means of arguments we form using God’s revelation as evidence.  This is very hostile to the doctrine of divine revelation.  After all, is God’s revelation insufficient; did God accidentally forget something crucial?  Is God’s revelation superfluous; did God give revelation even though we could have reached him on our own steam?  Is God’s revelation not authoritative; is there some human standard by which it is best to judge God?  Is God’s revelation unclear; does God need to speak using anti-Christian structures (naturalism) in order to say Christian things?

Yeah, But That Just Isn’t Working

But, we still have to ask, why does a bald appeal to God’s revelation, whether special or general, not prove effective when arguing with non-believers?  Here we discover that natural theology uses a faulty doctrine of man (anthropology) in its project, because natural theology treats humans as basically thinking machines.  We are, it says, led around by our “reason” alone.  Notice how this works just as well for a flesh-and-blood human as it would for a very advanced computer; this is an overly narrow understanding of humanity.  Instead, as philosophers are recognizing more and more, it is less that we are thinking machines and more that our reasoning abilities serve to direct and focus our actions.  Much more basic are our ethical commitments or values; these drive the use of our reason.

The cash value is this:  According to the doctrine of sin, all people are fundamentally committed against God in an ethical way, and if these ethical commitments prevent “neutral” reasoning then the proofs will never and can never work because they do not get to the core issues which divide the “believer” and the “unbeliever.”  More broadly, natural theology treats man as the sufficient judge of truth in and of himself, meaning that man has some sort of ultimacy or autonomy.  But if God is truly to be God, the sovereign creator and governor of all, then man cannot be ultimate or autonomous, for if man is ultimate then God is not.  If man can make sense of the world on his own terms without reference to God, then God is not truly the sovereign creator and governor of all.  If man can truly understand the world while considering the cross foolishness, then the cross cannot be the summary narrative of the entire world.  For this reason, if the “proofs” for God’s existence work then Christianity is false, because the “proofs” only work if humanism and not Christianity is true.

What, then, can the Christian do?  The Christian can reason with non-Christians, and often intellectual confusions about Christianity are important to discuss, but the Christian can never redeem someone from the ethical commitments which drive his reason against God – only God can do that.  Does this sound like, ultimately, we can do nothing?  Of course, that’s the point; God is ultimate, not man, and so man is not capable of reaching out and grabbing God on his own; God must grab man.

In addition, here is a great text I feel is pertinent to discussion, which demonstrates why natural theology is not only unnecessary but also misguided.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

71
Suggestions / Cash Clicks.
« on: December 30, 2009, 02:44:04 pm »Message ID: 124378
It would be nice to have a section where you get paid 3 to 5 cents to click on each ad to click on any link on that corresponding page, all once per day for each ad there are available, say 15 to 30 every 24 hours.

BTW, this is not exactly the same as PTC ads.

72
FusionCash / FusionCash Admin Support Team is great!
« on: December 01, 2009, 03:06:36 pm »Message ID: 114831
I was 5 hours late on cashout and upon my request the FC admin support team rolled it back to the previous day!

FYI, FC may allow an exception to this rule for late cashers depending on how long one has been a FC member and how much one has participated in the forum.

Pretty neat, eh?

Talk about added "FC benefits."

73
Off-Topic / New Sonic Drive-In
« on: October 31, 2009, 09:51:20 am »Message ID: 104908
Sonic opened a new place in my city. I never dined at Sonic. If you have, what is it like? The food and beverages? The workers and boss? The atmosphere and people? Does the place look/feel modern or retro? What is your experience?

74
Off-Topic / What store sells Christmas stuff all year round?
« on: October 31, 2009, 09:50:16 am »Message ID: 104906
If you are getting ready for Christmas pretty early this yea, what is a good store name to go to?

75
Off-Topic / What is your favorite 80s cartoon?
« on: October 31, 2009, 09:50:08 am »Message ID: 104905
Also, if you can, what is your favorite 80's cartoon that you would consider non-mainstream or obscure?

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