Messages

31

Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 25, 2011, 11:20:41 am »Message ID: 344161

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gk5SjEZJ6Q&feature=relmfu

In this news interview a clip is shown of an actor with a hidden camera going into planned parenthood saying he is a pimp and he has underage girls who need an abortion. This clip shows Planned Parenthood aiding the trafficking of little girls and giving them abortions to keep them on the street.

32

Debate & Discuss / Re: Enjoy....I am

« on: April 19, 2011, 12:18:34 am »Message ID: 341911

Babies are getting too big to fit under mom now. It's raining and cold and they are fighting for a warm spot 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 18, 2011, 04:39:37 pm »Message ID: 341786

Is what you call "biology" separate from god, or is it not?

God created the human body. It is miraculous and complex but not perfect. People get sick, cells deform, people have miscarriages.

Doesn't change the fact that killing a zygote or fetus which is considered human, is killing a human. You are simply killing it in a particular stage of it's development.

You said killing an adult wasn't the same as killing a fetus. I showed how it was. Stop trying to bring God into it simply because you know I'm a Christian.

I'm not arguing pro life from a religious POV.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 18, 2011, 10:12:58 am »Message ID: 341640

The Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
Do you really believe this man would have accepted and also said how honored he was to receive this if he felt they were on a course to destroy the very people, his race, by selectively aborting as many as possible?!

I refer you to the link discussing the Negro Project. It goes into more depth in how the black community was deceived into thinking abortion was about equal and civil rights rather than a racial extermination project.

Guttmacher is the same Guttamcher behind the organization that you took some of your info from

I quoted statistics from Guttmacher to illustrate an idea. My reference to them specifically was because I was accused of only referencing biased information.

It might surprise many who are against the PPFA to look at the religious stances of those who were so instrumental in starting it and keeping it viable.

It doesn't surprise me jordandog. There are many a religious people I disagree with.

Go visit a hospital nursery sometime and ask to see the babies in withdrawal from heroin and crack. Take a peek at the ones who are already being IV'd with their AIDS cocktails - that is one hell of a life to look forward too. I can guarantee it won't be crowded with the mothers of those babies. They are either locked up after giving birth and those that aren't, well, let's just say they won't be coming back anytime soon to take their newborns home to a warm and safe environment.

I am not denying that babies come into this world in extremely horrible circumstances with a bleak future ahead of them. And it makes me just as nauseatingly sick that women are irresponsible enough to treat they lives the helped to create like a piece of garbage. I have seen babies addicted to crack. My own sister gave up her rights to her child just because she didn't want to pay child support. How caring and nurturing and mature of her right? It ticks me off to no end.

I don't agree with abortion. But as I said in an earlier post here I don't agree with a child being born in those circumstances either. It's a no win situation in my eyes. And there is no easy answer because society peddles sex as glamorous and fun. It's everywhere you go. You can educate people till your blue in the face. It doesn't MAKE them responsible. There is no such thing as virtue anymore. But that digresses into morality and religion at some point and I'm not really trying to go there.

You/anyone cannot say that PPFA is focused on that today as their 'mission statement', it just is not fact.

I think I have given enough evidence of the racism still prevalent. You can take it or leave it. But I can and am asserting it as fact. Their mission statement may have changed but the mission hasn't.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 18, 2011, 09:55:40 am »Message ID: 341637

Scratching your nose isn't murdering anything in your eyes

skin cells from my nose are not babies

even though the millions of sperm they throw away on a regular basis contain 1/2 the requirements to make a person

millions of sperm does not equal millions of babies

No one accuses god of being pro abortion despite the countless miscarriages he causes...oh, and the fact that up to 2/3 of fertilized eggs never properly attach to the uterine wall in the first place.

Miscarriages and unviable pregnancies are the result of biology. People do not choose to have a miscarriage or choose to have a fertilized egg not attach to the uterine wall. There is nothing even similar in either of those events to deciding and acting upon aborting a baby.

Hmm, I think you are diverting from the issue.  Do aborted fetuses go to heaven or not?  If so, I really don't get the crusade to "save" them.  Abortions are NOT the same as killing adults; let's get that perfectly clear.

I'm not diverting from the issue. Actually the theme of my posts hasn't been about whether I agree with abortion or any religious aspect of the issue it's about Planned Parenthood itself and my issue with the modern eugenics it's practices and the trauma women undergo post abortion. You have played a bait and switch with me..but that's okay 

Yes aborted babies go to heaven, that doesn't give people a free pass to kill them. Newborns go to heaven, but infanticide is wrong. Infants aren't adults. BUT even with that being said, I believe it is the same as killing an adult.

Since the mechanism by which mammals reproduce has been known for at least the last 150 years, any biologist in the world can tell you that a mammal’s life begins when the sperm from the father unites with the egg from the mother.  This process is called fertilization, and when the DNA from the father and mother have combined, the egg is called a fertilized egg, or zygote.  When the zygote splits into two cells, it is called a two-celled embryo.  When it splits into four cells, it is called a four-celled embryo, etc.  The definition of “embryo” is “the youngest form of a being.”

If this being is nourished and protected, it will proceed uninterrupted through the developmental stages of embryo, fetus, newborn, toddler, child, teen, adult and aged adult: one continuous existence.  This being never develops into a pig, a frog or a tree, but only into a human. This being is therefore, by definition, a living human being.
http://familydoctormag.com/sexual-health/251-when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue.html

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Enjoy....I am

« on: April 17, 2011, 10:36:18 pm »Message ID: 341506

lol...I've kept tabs on these birds for too long I think...I'm already dreading when they will be big enough to leave the nest...

Me too Sheryl! I'm going to cry 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 17, 2011, 10:35:39 pm »Message ID: 341505

so the decision of whether to abort a fetus or not is akin to deciding whether to finish baking a cake or not

I don't think the decision to abort a baby is anything like deciding whether to finish baking a cake. And I'm sure the millions of women who have had abortions would probably agree. I think it's very insensitive to their situation to suggest such a thing. A woman in the grips of fear and desperation about whether to have a baby or kill it before it's born is traumatic and life changing. Regardless of which road they take. 

Don't aborted fetuses automatically go to heaven??

By this logic anyone can justify killing anyone. "Hey they believe in God, so what if we killed them for their wallet, they will go to heaven. We did them a favor." 

Excuse me for thinking that the main issue was killing babies, not killing blacks?

If you thought that it's because you didn't read my post.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 16, 2011, 03:58:12 pm »Message ID: 340881

Ramirez had a choice to make, and it was a wrenching decision for an an 18-year-old who had just had her first child. Her options? Sign a form from the Eugenics Board "consenting" to be sterilized, or have welfare payments for her mother and six brothers and sisters cut off.
http://againsttheirwill.journalnow.com/

Sounds much like the type of "choice" offered to pregnant women where abortion is concerned. They fear both options and choose the one they are pressured into. It really makes me see red walks....it makes me want to scream. 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 16, 2011, 12:39:00 pm »Message ID: 340804

We have 14,000,000 black babies that have been aborted. Let's look on the bright side and say if they were not aborted, they'd be put up for adoption.

over 80% of woman regret having the abortion and would therefore not have put the baby up for adoption. The number one reason women get an abortion is not because they absolutely DON'T WANT it, it's because of social pressure and fear. They do it because they feel they don't have a choice.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 16, 2011, 11:26:24 am »Message ID: 340781

black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion

So?  Who cares what color the woman is.  If she's an unfit parent in any way, let her do the world (and the unborn child) a favor.  You "pro-lifers" really turn a blind eye to the horrible, horrible conditions a lot of these aborted fetuses would have ended up in.

I think that color matters when Planned Parenthood was formed from an organization that's purpose was to eliminate black people. I think color matters when a person working for planned parenthood gets "excited" taking a donation targeted for black people and agreed that "we don't need anymore black people".

Also who ever said that every woman getting an abortion is an unfit parent?? I know women who have had abortions and have other children and they are extremely loving and caring mothers. Also it seems as though you "pro-choicers" are the ones turning a blind eye to the reality of what abortion does to the mental and even physical health of women. And turning a blind eye to the racism that fuels Planned Parenthood who is responsible for the 28% of the black population being wiped out!

After all, from my entire post pointing out WHY more black women are getting abortions, your comeback is to assert that all women having an abortion are unfit parents so who cares the color of their skin. Your indifference to the injustice of it, is highly disturbing.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: To the Christian who thinks only those who accept Christ will go to heaven....

« on: April 16, 2011, 11:08:12 am »Message ID: 340763

if jehovah is so all powerful and can do anything, then if he does exist i dare him to just strike me down where i sit.


.............................................oops im still here i wander

God can do anything, but he doesn't want to strike you where you sit because he loves you. 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 15, 2011, 04:00:45 pm »Message ID: 340455

Using only biased material does not prove a point; it just makes you look biased.  Show me unbiased sources supporting your claims, or sources from the other side that will give some credibility towards your sources. 

You calling them biased doesn't make them so. 
Everything I listed about Margaret Sanger is FACT. It came from her mouth.
Every statistic listed about Post Abortion Syndrome were statistics formed from the mouths of the very people having abortions.
I quoted people who support eugenics.
A representative from Planned Parenthood taking a donation over the phone was recorded having said she was excited to take a donation targeted for black people.

Just because the sites I referenced may be pro life doesn't change the FACT that the people quoted, said those things.

So you can say my sources are not credible but saying so doesn't make it the case. How about if you disagree with me YOU go find what YOU consider to be unbiased sources. Amy posted a link and asked what we though of it. I have given my thoughts and ample references and resources to back up what I am saying and what I believe to be the truth.

But if we were to use your sources as complete, unbiased truth, then their practice of eugenics is still "fine", because they are not forcing anyone to have an abortion

Nope they are not forcing anyone, they are just lying to them and telling them it's about their right to choose instead of telling them it's about them being unfit to breed. And subsequently laughing all the way to the bank for having successfully rid the world of another inferior human being. And that's not fine no matter how many times you try to re word what you have said to make it sound fine.

Dr. Clarence Gamble (of Proctor and Gamble fame) who had served as director of the Birth Control League and was appointed as the regional director of the South, sent Sanger a memo entitled “Suggestion for Negro Project,” where he warned that black leaders would likely see her strategy as a plot to exterminate the blacks. His solution? Enlist carefully selected black leaders to spread the word instead. They’d take the pill if it were from their own people and no one would suspect a thing!

In Sanger’s reply letter on Dec. 10. 1939, she agreed with his strategy. “We do not want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten that idea out if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Facts:

   1. The birth control campaigns like the Negro Project that gave birth to Planned Parent-hood heavily targeted minorities
   2. Planned Parent-hood has placed the vast majority of their clinics in minority neighborhoods

The result? According to the Guttmacher Institute, black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion. Since Roe v Wade, 10% of the white race has been wiped out, but 28% of the black race has been wiped out. The black community makes up only 12% of the American population, but they have 36% of all the abortions–so black babies are dying more than 3x as fast! By 2008, close to 14,000,000 black babies have been killed by abortion.

I quoted this from the bloodmoney site, however the Guttmacher Institute through which these statistics came from is NOT a pro life or religious site. Look for yourself.
http://www.guttmacher.org/

Go ahead and support abortion. Go ahead and support Planned Parenthood. In my opinion, supporting abortion is dismissing the countless testimonies of post abortion women crying out from experience and anguish that abortion is not the answer. In my opinion, supporting Planned Parenthood is supporting modern eugenics under the disguise of civil rights, and leading women to the clinics like cattle to the slaughterhouse.

You can disagree but I'm not going to let you dictate to me to present sources you find acceptable to convince you otherwise.

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Enjoy....I am

« on: April 15, 2011, 02:53:17 pm »Message ID: 340435

Sheryl it is raining on our eagles right now and even though they are used to such weather it's still sad to see them trying to keep their babies dry and getting all soaked and wind blown 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 15, 2011, 01:42:34 pm »Message ID: 340413

Believing in eugenics is "fine", meaning they are not breaking any laws, and no one is being forced into it.

No one is being forced. Forced sterilization was made illegal and thus the peddling of abortion to minorities under the guise of civil rights was born.

It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal.

I disagree with that absolutely 100%.

Is bullying someone because of their color, or race, or sexuality fine? Is protesting the funeral of military servicemen with signs saying Semper Fi Fags fine? Discrimination is NEVER fine whether it is legal or not. And the difference between those things and the purpose of Planned Parenthoods abortions is that the name of the game was changed and the discrimination was MADE legal! 

Planned Parent-hood is about birth control; it was born out of a eugenic movement that recommended sterilization and segregation as its primary birth control tools. And immediately after sterilization and segregation legally failed, abortion appeared on the scene, and minorities were targeted for abortion just as heavily as they were targeted before for sterilization and segregation. The sad truth: abortion became a far more effective and lucrative eugenic tactic than anything that came before it.
http://bloodmoneyfilm.com/blog/planned-parent-hood-today

If anyone at Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics, so what?

Again, WHAT?! Let me get this straight.....So what if the people working at the organization counseling you and performing your abortion, agree with it's racist founder that you and your baby should be wiped off the face of the planet? So what if the person giving you advice thinks your genetic trash? So what if the person killing your baby is HAPPY that the world is rid of one less useless human being? REALLY? So What???

As long as I don't see any proof that they are actively practicing it, it's "fine".

I gave evidence that they are still racist and the act of aborting children IS them actively practicing their eugenics!
 
This indifference to racism and hate mongering is WHY racism and hate mongering still exists. Maybe you should read walks thread about the abuse being suffered by the Indigenous people. Why don't you go on HIS thread and tell him it's FINE as long as it's LEGAL. 

 

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Debate & Discuss / Re: Planned Parenthood

« on: April 15, 2011, 12:47:16 pm »Message ID: 340401

I have volunteered there before, and they are caring, considerate, and informative towards the women who come in, no matter what the reason.

Of course they are! I never said they weren't. But they are not informative enough.

Have you seen the condition some of these women are in when they come into the Planned Parenthood office?  They are not calm, collected women; they are in tears, often hysterical about just the idea of being pregnant!

And thus proving my whole statement that women choosing abortion actually feel as though they have NO CHOICE.

Did you read many of these posts?  Did you read just how many of them chose the abortion because of social pressure?  In most of the posts, pressure from a parent or boyfriend/spouse pushed the woman into having the abortion.  Why are you still blaming Planned Parenthood or any of the doctor's offices that were used in the abortions?  Why aren't you posting about the injustices these women faced?  The pain their loved ones put them through?

As a matter of fact I did. And everything you just said is exactly what I said. I quote myself:

That phrase is funny considering upwards of 80% of women who choose abortion do so under duress, coerced by fear under heavy social pressure from friends, family, boyfriends, and work. In other words, most women chose abortion because they feel they have no other choice.

Thanks for helping me prove my point  

I'm not blaming Planned Parenthood for performing abortion. I am blaming Planned Parenthood for it's racist and genocidal agenda. And again I will state that not every person working for or supporting Planned Parenthood agrees with their past or the idea of eugenics.

How cute of you to pick only one quote from my entire statement, and a partial quote at that, to make a personal attack.

I didn't misquote you. I copied and pasted your words exactly, in it's entire sentence. I only changed the word eugenics to it's definition to fully show the meaning of such a statement. And I quoted the part of your post that I wished to address. Which is not a clever way to attack you. It is how a person addresses a specific statement  

However you are very cleverly trying to dismiss the fact that you said eugenics is fine as long as it is privately funded. That is disgusting to me.