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Topic: The Bible as Truth?  (Read 12030 times)

amyrouse

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The Bible as Truth?
« on: July 20, 2010, 05:49:36 pm »
Something I'm having a hard time understanding here...

Why is it that many who believe the Bible isn't 100% the truth call those who don't atheists?  I am not an atheist, and I don't believe that everything in the Bible is the cold hard truth.

From what I can understand, the Bible is open to interpretation.  My Bible is written in a language that historically didn't use vowels, and therefore can be interpreted thousands of ways.  There are stories that are left out of the Bible (i.e. Lilith, the story of Hanukkah, etc.) yet those legends and holidays remain (what do you think a lullaby is?). 

...and there are many that have some major things wrong.  Example...Jehovah is not g-d's name.  The name of g-d is signified by four Hebrew consonants and to aid readers, the vowels from the word "Adonai" meaning "my lord" were transposed on to those four consonants; thus, the pronunciation became "Yehovah." Does that make everything the Jehovah's Witnesses believe incorrect?

I believe firmly that the Bible is a book of lessons that can be learned, but each individual person must read it themselves to determine what those lessons are.  Do I believe Moses parted the Red Sea?  Hell, no.  But I do believe it is important to step forward with conviction before you enter into dangerous territory. 

And, most importantly, I believe it is not up to me to "fix" anyone or "save" anyone.  I believe g-d does not wish for us to be blindly following a faith because we were scared into it, but to research, read, and make a rational choice as to how to live our lives.   I believe wholeheartedly in the golden rule.  I wish more people who claim to be following in the footsteps of Jesus (in whom I personally do not believe as a personal savior, but to each their own) would actually live their lives by the example they claim him to have left.




queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 05:58:53 pm »
Why is it that many who believe the Bible isn't 100% the truth call those who don't atheists?

Because it's the Word of God, and if god is supposed to be perfect, why would he give us an imperfect book??
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 06:03:30 pm »
why would he give us an imperfect book??

An imperfect book written by imperfect men.



queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 06:36:24 pm »
An imperfect book written by imperfect men.

But god is all-powerful.  That's the best he could do?
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 07:41:11 pm »
Personally, I can't believe g-d is all powerful. 

Otherwise, if g-d is running the shots, then why is the world in such disarray?  Don't try to say it is the devil's doing, because I don't believe in the devil, and besides that, the devil is a moot point if g-d is all powerful.  G-d created the devil. 

And g-d is faaaaar from perfect.

We are supposed to be created in g-d's image.  I honestly can't fathom that if I was created in g-d's image that g-d could be even remotely perfect... since I know that I am far from it.  Also, g-d has so many faults, like pride, envy, and greed (having no other g-d's before g-d), wrath (hellfire and the flood to name two), sloth (free will, anyone?  G-d doesn't want to control us except through fear), and lust (impregnating a virgin...lol, I'm reaching here.).  A little more time and I can think of one to fit gluttony as well...


I agree with you, queen.  Honestly, I do.  I just can't help but wonder these things.  I can't understand why, when given the capacity to think, people don't use this "g-d given gift" and actually think about these things.  There is so much that doesn't make sense.  And I couldn't explain intelligently why I have faith other than the fact that it feels right to me.  I won't get offended, though, when presented with an intelligent argument contrary to my beliefs.  Like I've said before...I could be wrong.  All I can do is live my life to the best of my ability and have faith that the g-d I believe in has taken notice of that.



Falconer02

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 08:31:44 pm »
Quote
Does that make everything the Jehovah's Witnesses believe incorrect?

I don't rememeber it perfectly, but as far as the name goes, I think it's nothing more than hebrew-to-english pronounciations. Similar to how the name "James" would be pronounced "Hay-meh" in spanish. But yeah, JW's are wrong about a lot of things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I post this occasionally. I'm not sure if I've shown it to you before. If not, I think you'll get a kick out of it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:38:09 pm by Falconer02 »

jotique

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 11:49:31 pm »
It is very hard to understand the bible and I do not like it when people only quote one thing from the bble like paying your tithes. But as long as you know tha you can not save yourself and that you need a savior then you will be born again through jesus. And it is your choice to sin or not to sin becaue g-d is not looking at your physical body that is going to die and be in bones,but he is more concerned about your spiritual body which will live forever and ever. but try not to sin all th time Hebrews 10:26. And I hope that this helped you

queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 10:28:38 am »
Personally, I can't believe g-d is all powerful.

Then why call him god?  Is that not one of the definitions of a god? 

Quote
Otherwise, if g-d is running the shots, then why is the world in such disarray?  Don't try to say it is the devil's doing, because I don't believe in the devil, and besides that, the devil is a moot point if g-d is all powerful.  G-d created the devil.

It's excellent that you recognize evil as being a major flaw.  I highly recommend this video because it discusses the problem of evil and the counter-arguments (i.e. "free will") that the religious try to give:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgiTiyMG_c&playnext_from=TL&videos=YtL4yKID9xI

Quote
And g-d is faaaaar from perfect.

Quite obviously!  But what is more likely given the state of the world: an "imperfect" god, or no god at all?

Quote
We are supposed to be created in g-d's image.  I honestly can't fathom that if I was created in g-d's image that g-d could be even remotely perfect... since I know that I am far from it.  Also, g-d has so many faults, like pride, envy, and greed (having no other g-d's before g-d), wrath (hellfire and the flood to name two), sloth (free will, anyone?  G-d doesn't want to control us except through fear), and lust (impregnating a virgin...lol, I'm reaching here.).

That's an interesting theory you bring up, that we are created in "his image" and that's why he's so incompetent.  However, can we really believe that god is powerful enough to create the entire universe and everything in it, but he's not powerful enough to get a hold on humanity (also his creation) and all its problems?  Does that make sense?  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oNhL1wCgg&playnext_from=TL&videos=uVPKTIRZOB0)

As for god having "bad human traits" like pride and envy, how does this make the god of the Bible ANY DIFFERENT from the thousands of gods man has invented throughout time that are now labeled as mythology?  There were gods that were even more human-like than Yahweh like Zeus, who supposedly threw lightning bolts from the clouds, and yet no one (well, except for a special few) believe in Zeus anymore.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

hlove

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 11:35:40 am »
I think everyone has there own oppinion on religion and for all to each there own whatever makes them happy :)

amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 01:10:27 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I post this occasionally. I'm not sure if I've shown it to you before. If not, I think you'll get a kick out of it.

Ok, that was awesome.  This is my favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzEs2nj7iZM



amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 02:32:18 pm »
In case you're interested...this is what I'm talking about in reference to the origin of the name "Jehovah."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uYWtBb01G0&feature=PlayList&p=D3B9B2D6788E5F28&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=69

I can say, from studying Hebrew, that I know everything up to 4:30 to be true.

Here is the aleph bet for those who are interested: http://www.jewish-people-unite.com/judaism_hebrew_alphabet.html
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 02:34:14 pm by amyrouse »



shernajwine

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 03:06:18 pm »
amy,

i came across a website that has a lot of really detailed information. i know you classify yourself as jewish but this website is more about proving the existence of God with science and not so much circled around proving certain aspects of christianity. i see a lot of doubt in your posts about who god is yet you hold to your beliefs with serious doubts as to who you actually claim to be god. if anything you shouldn't be on the fence. know what know without doubt and you will be much happier.

i advised people on another thread to search out truth, be they atheist or christian....don't look for evidence of your belief from a one sided coin. look at both sides and come to a conclusion based on ALL evidence. obviously i came to conclusion there is a god and it is the god of the christian bible.

but here is the website, if you are inclined, i think it is a good read and may answer some questions you have. don't stop there though, look at the opposing side and see if their claims match up to this site :)

http://www.godandscience.org


amyrouse

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 03:30:42 pm »
Perhaps I haven't been clear.

My belief is that g-d is not active in this world.  There is no heaven or hell, only what we create on earth.  I have a hard time believing in life after death, but I am still reading on the topic, because I believe non-existence is scarier than hellfire.  I believe in a messianic age, not a messiah, and this messianic age is where we create our own peace on earth instead of waiting around for someone to deliver it.  I believe the bible is a book of stories written by men and interpreted by men and we all should make our own interpretations.  However, should someone decide not to do so, this does not buy them a one way ticket to eternal damnation.  Our belief in whether or not g-d exists or whether Jesus is part a threefold idea of a supernatural being holds no bearing on our afterlife.  The thing that matters most is how we live and how we treat others...how we ACT, not what we profess.  I try to live my life with that in mind. 

Hope that clears things up.



queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 04:02:01 pm »
I believe non-existence is scarier than hellfire.

Really?   ???  You'd seriously rather be tortured forever than not exist?

Death can only be scary while we're alive.  Once it happens, it will no longer be scary.  And we all know exactly what it's going to be like: it's going to be just like before we were born.

Which brings up another very good point: if you didn't exist billions of years before your birth, what makes you think you'll exist after?!
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

queenofnines

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Re: The Bible as Truth?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 04:38:33 pm »
Sherna, I went to that "god and science" website and poked around for a bit.  All I saw were a ton of justifications (like oh, god didn't "murder" people, he just killed them!), bad evidence, and wacky claims.

Stuff like this:

"I believe that bipedal primates that existed before Adam and Eve, were just part of the animal kingdom, and were not endowed with the characteristics that make humans distinct from animals."

Ugh.  So god just happened to create primates that share 98% of our DNA and hid skulls and skeletons (like Lucy) to confuse scientists.  Makes perfect sense!!  Also, we're freaking MAMMALS.  And mammals are animals!

When you're done with godisimaginary.com, check out http://www.ironchariots.org/  It is a lot more professional looking/sounding than the former and counters all of the classic arguments for god's existence.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

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