New Christian Question #1: How did God make the night, day, and plants BEFORE

[falcon9]

I see your points, but what other work of fiction combines murder, rape, pillaging, incest, wars, slavery, and supernatural acts under one cover and has millions of people accepting it as gospel and an authority as to how they should live their lives?   

Not sure ... a toss-up between the Twilight series of books or, the Star Trek books perhaps?

Don't forget Star Wars. That might qualify too.

It very well might.  Doubtless others could come up with some additional competitors as well.

[dkanofsky]

God is all around.  He made the universe perfectly.

[falcon9]

God is all around.  He made the universe perfectly.

Both are religious attributions based upon belief without evidence stemming from blind faith - as usual. 

[Falconer02]

he made the sun and the moon?

Also, why would he create the entire universe from nothing but need a rib for 1 more thing? Why would he create light and then create light sources? Why would 2 perfect beings created in this god's image make such a laughable silly mistake that cursed mankind so badly? Answer- it's an irrational belief system.

[hitch0403]

he made the sun and the moon?

Also, why would he create the entire universe from nothing but need a rib for 1 more thing? Why would he create light and then create light sources? Why would 2 perfect beings created in this god's image make such a laughable silly mistake that cursed mankind so badly? Answer- it's an irrational belief system.

Falconer2 i think you might be on to something.I wouldnt wanna take credit for creating YOU!!!!

[falcon9]

he made the sun and the moon?

Also, why would he create the entire universe from nothing but need a rib for 1 more thing? Why would he create light and then create light sources? Why would 2 perfect beings created in this god's image make such a laughable silly mistake that cursed mankind so badly? Answer- it's an irrational belief system.

Falconer2 i think you might be on to something.I wouldnt wanna take credit for creating YOU!!!!

So, instead of accounting for the 'theo-illogical' inconsistancies raised by the challenged to a religious belief, you attack the challenger instead.  Does the jw cult teach that tactic or, did some supernatural egregore "create it"?

[Falconer02]

Falconer2 i think you might be on to something.I wouldnt wanna take credit for creating YOU!!!!

Weak.

So, instead of accounting for the 'theo-illogical' inconsistancies raised by the challenged to a religious belief, you attack the challenger instead.  Does the jw cult teach that tactic or, did some supernatural egregore "create it"?

Actually they kinda sorta do teach that. If they can't keep their eyes in the bible during a debate, they will lash out at the mere sight of basic reasoning. It's really fascinating for me to see that those traits stem beyond what I saw while growing up in my home town-- they're even like that on the internet! Oddly this recently happened to a friend of mine- they came to his door and he cornered them in a simple debate and they stormed off with bad attitudes.

[falcon9]

So, instead of accounting for the 'theo-illogical' inconsistancies raised by the challenged to a religious belief, you attack the challenger instead.  Does the jw cult teach that tactic or, did some supernatural egregore "create it"?

Actually they kinda sorta do teach that. If they can't keep their eyes in the bible during a debate, they will lash out at the mere sight of basic reasoning. It's really fascinating for me to see that those traits stem beyond what I saw while growing up in my home town-- they're even like that on the internet! Oddly this recently happened to a friend of mine- they came to his door and he cornered them in a simple debate and they stormed off with bad attitudes.

Excerpted from: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/250-how-to-identify-a-cult -

“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question ..."

[Falconer02]

Excerpted from: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/250-how-to-identify-a-cult -

“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question ..."

Precisely! There's no doubt in my mind that JW's definitely exhibit 2, 4, and 6 on that list. Though upon the cult's creation, I'm sure 1, 3, and 5 were present as well.

[nhendrickson]

So, instead of accounting for the 'theo-illogical' inconsistancies raised by the challenged to a religious belief, you attack the challenger instead.  Does the jw cult teach that tactic or, did some supernatural egregore "create it"?

Actually they kinda sorta do teach that. If they can't keep their eyes in the bible during a debate, they will lash out at the mere sight of basic reasoning. It's really fascinating for me to see that those traits stem beyond what I saw while growing up in my home town-- they're even like that on the internet! Oddly this recently happened to a friend of mine- they came to his door and he cornered them in a simple debate and they stormed off with bad attitudes.

Excerpted from: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/250-how-to-identify-a-cult -

“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question ..."

I have actually overhead a church member of a local mega church advise another member that he shouldn't think too much as this would cause him to become discontent, to create doubt, and to lose his faith.  So this kind of pressure does go on in some churches.  I have met one young woman who attended various bible study groups because she genuinely wanted answers and to discuss scripture.  She was repeatedly taken aside at some point and it was suggested that she would "be happier" somewhere else simply because she did try to engage in an actual dialogue rather than just be spoon fed doctrine.  So this does go on in some churches.

[kimberlymgiles]

God is GOD, and he doesn't operate in a manner that can be supported by scientific facts, because God is SUPERNATURAL. Gods existence can't be supported by science because science derives from facts that are based on things of the world. Supernatural, and science never mix. But yet there are many things that the most intellegent scientist can't explain. Whenever you see miracles happening, this is the HAND OF GOD OPERATING IN THE LIVES OF HIS CHILDREN. If you are interested in more than just an argument then in order for you to know the mind of God you must first seek him. God will reveal to you everything you need to know about him. All you have to do is invite him into your life. I know this through experience. There were many things about God that I didn't know, before I decided to develop a relationship with him. The atheist say that God does not exist, and  religion which is created by man is designed to confuse. I had to figure out a way to shut out the world and get to know the God that gave me life. If you pray to God, He will reveal Himself to you. God will also reveal to you the answers to those questions that seem unexplainable.

[Falconer02]

I have actually overhead a church member of a local mega church advise another member that he shouldn't think too much as this would cause him to become discontent, to create doubt, and to lose his faith.  So this kind of pressure does go on in some churches.  I have met one young woman who attended various bible study groups because she genuinely wanted answers and to discuss scripture.  She was repeatedly taken aside at some point and it was suggested that she would "be happier" somewhere else simply because she did try to engage in an actual dialogue rather than just be spoon fed doctrine.  So this does go on in some churches.

I would go as far to say that this goes on in all churches, but just on different levels. It's funny that in all corners of life, questioning things of their legitimacy is a smart, noble, and healthy thing to do. Somehow religion thinks they should be exempt from such basic reasonings, and I think that says a lot about the belief system.

[falcon9]

God is GOD, and he doesn't operate in a manner that can be supported by scientific facts, because God is SUPERNATURAL. Gods existence can't be supported by science because science derives from facts that are based on things of the world.

If that's the case, belief in such a supernatural entity sans evidence is irrational.  Irrational beliefs lead to error, (like the unfounded religious belief that some supernatural entity exists to blame things on).

Whenever you see miracles happening, this is the HAND OF GOD OPERATING ...

No, if there is no evidence of the existence of such a supernatural entity, any attributions to "it" are spurious and not rational.

If you are interested in more than just an argument then in order for you to know the mind of God you must first seek him.

Multiple challenges for 'believers' to produce substantive evidence of such a supernatural entity have resulted in No evidence being produced to support the initial claim that the supernatural entity exists.  Spurious claimed attributions of things/events to an unproven entity do not constitute proof of that entity.

The atheist say that God does not exist ...

No, the "atheists" challenge the iinitial claims of 'believers' to substantiate their claim that such a supernatural entity exists under the burden of proof obligation for them making the initial claim.  Anyone who subsequently claims that something does not exist, (which hasn't been done here), has the burden of proof to substantiate a 'negative' claim.

[JediJohnnie]

God is GOD, and he doesn't operate in a manner that can be supported by scientific facts, because God is SUPERNATURAL. Gods existence can't be supported by science because science derives from facts that are based on things of the world. Supernatural, and science never mix. But yet there are many things that the most intellegent scientist can't explain. Whenever you see miracles happening, this is the HAND OF GOD OPERATING IN THE LIVES OF HIS CHILDREN. If you are interested in more than just an argument then in order for you to know the mind of God you must first seek him. God will reveal to you everything you need to know about him. All you have to do is invite him into your life. I know this through experience. There were many things about God that I didn't know, before I decided to develop a relationship with him. The atheist say that God does not exist, and  religion which is created by man is designed to confuse. I had to figure out a way to shut out the world and get to know the God that gave me life. If you pray to God, He will reveal Himself to you. God will also reveal to you the answers to those questions that seem unexplainable.

Unfortunatly atheists are always going to hide behind "burden of proof" arguements.But as I posted to one such atheist here,what proof do we have that Columbus came to America?Should we go by ancient documents at face value in that case but not the Bible?

[hitch0403]

God is GOD, and he doesn't operate in a manner that can be supported by scientific facts, because God is SUPERNATURAL. Gods existence can't be supported by science because science derives from facts that are based on things of the world. Supernatural, and science never mix. But yet there are many things that the most intellegent scientist can't explain. Whenever you see miracles happening, this is the HAND OF GOD OPERATING IN THE LIVES OF HIS CHILDREN. If you are interested in more than just an argument then in order for you to know the mind of God you must first seek him. God will reveal to you everything you need to know about him. All you have to do is invite him into your life. I know this through experience. There were many things about God that I didn't know, before I decided to develop a relationship with him. The atheist say that God does not exist, and  religion which is created by man is designed to confuse. I had to figure out a way to shut out the world and get to know the God that gave me life. If you pray to God, He will reveal Himself to you. God will also reveal to you the answers to those questions that seem unexplainable.

Unfortunatly atheists are always going to hide behind "burden of proof" arguements.But as I posted to one such atheist here,what proof do we have that Columbus came to America?Should we go by ancient documents at face value in that case but not the Bible?
We perceive od Gods existence thru intelligent design and there is enuff of that to go around where i dont wanna give examples.

We see in the human race alone many want their independence and cant be told anything or dont wanna accept accountability to a higher power.