Messages

16

Debate & Discuss / Re: Y SHOULD I VOTE FOR OBAMA?

« on: June 29, 2012, 10:52:11 am »Message ID: 562468

It seems to me, that comments here show, that some posters have no real education on any of the candidates and are simply parroting some Fox news/Cnn propaganda, or some ill informed conversation from another quarter. These people should not vote for Obama.....of course they shouldn't vote for anyone else either.

17

Debate & Discuss / Re: Favorite Animal?

« on: June 29, 2012, 10:41:35 am »Message ID: 562462

I have my moments with different type of animals. 

Uhhhhhh......

18

Debate & Discuss / Re: Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: June 29, 2012, 10:38:56 am »Message ID: 562458

For your information i never applied at a casino for work. I worked for a large dept. store and we met our quota of indians evey time. I had 5 working for me in my dept. What i did apply for was a dental assistance. i had the training . She didn't. I am also part indian. I can trace my many grandfathers back to 1774. can you?

Innocent mistake that illustrates my level of concerns for the details.....Part NDN?...which part?  ;)How adorable.....out NDN me eh? LMIAO. Ya mind producing evidence of your generational claim? Yep.....GrandMothers too...on both sides many generations prior to "your" Independence, of course prior to the mid 1800s dates get fuzzy and disappear entirely within a couple of generations. More importantly however....they know who I am as well 

Heh.  That's just shy of the ye olde "Cherokee Princess" claim, no? 
Walks, where have you been, bud?

Ummm.....I got a bit busy for a minute.....
I see not much has changed....was looking thru some other threads and can't seem to find any thing to make a facetious comment about that wouldnt simply be a re-run of one of my old ones. I'll keep looking tho....maybe I'll find something besides letting the newbies know that they will need more than just one post to get their three bucks....

19

Debate & Discuss / Re: Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: June 29, 2012, 10:21:04 am »Message ID: 562442

For your information i never applied at a casino for work. I worked for a large dept. store and we met our quota of indians evey time. I had 5 working for me in my dept. What i did apply for was a dental assistance. i had the training . She didn't. I am also part indian. I can trace my many grandfathers back to 1774. can you?

Innocent mistake that illustrates my level of concerns for the details.....Part NDN?...which part?  ;)How adorable.....out NDN me eh? LMIAO. Ya mind producing evidence of your generational claim? Yep.....GrandMothers too...on both sides many generations prior to "your" Independence, of course prior to the mid 1800s dates get fuzzy and disappear entirely within a couple of generations. More importantly however....they know who I am as well 

20

Debate & Discuss / Re: Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: June 03, 2012, 11:40:01 am »Message ID: 547261

Oh come on how long do we have to support them. Where i live there is 9 res. in our state and everyone of them have gambling and resorts, making dang good money. Some even have oil rights. Now they are wanting to put toll booths on fed. roads that the feds and state built so everyone can get to their sasinos. I have worked for the state and fed. gov. delivering commodities to the resavations and had it thrown back at me because it was not name brand products. It is very good and made by name brand companies just not labled. How long to do we have to keep paying them. They are moochers.

Still pissed off that you didn't get that casino job, eh?

There are 9 pueblos in this state. Pueblos are not reservations. There re a couple of reservations here which are home to Apaches and others, but not even close to 9 in number.

The following article shows that the State of New Mexico receives in the neighborhood of $80,000,000.00 per year in taxes from the NDN casinos of the state. Does that sound like the state is getting mooched?

Further evidence that you are speaking out of spiteful vengeance and not knowledge of the subject.

" - While New Mexico’s Indian casinos paid the state nearly $64 million in taxes during the last fiscal year, a state official said it should have been more."
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/on_assignment/state-indian-casinos-owe-more-money

21

Debate & Discuss / Re: Tribe plans to blockade part of Lake Shasta

« on: May 23, 2012, 01:03:01 pm »Message ID: 541929

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ZTx7GZmqE

22

Debate & Discuss / Re: Tribe plans to blockade part of Lake Shasta

« on: May 23, 2012, 12:45:08 pm »Message ID: 541925

In this thread I mean to kill a few birds with one stone so to speak.

I promised JDog that I would post about our young people working to protect our Culture and Traditions.
I also wish to elaborate a bit about my Niece Lyla, whom I mentioned in an earlier thread and finally to address this Nations fight to save their sacred sites as well as their chance at federal recognition.

My Niece who recently graduated from Stanford, worked as an intern for this tribe and lived amongst them while doing so. She also did her honors thesis on this tribes sacred sites issue. I mentioned that she was unavailable at this time, and wont go into specifics of that other than to say that last week she was on the Piute Rez in Nevada and this week she is in California. I will post more on my Nieces efforts in this thread in the coming days.


The following page tells of this coming weekends efforts by this tribe to protect its traditional Womens coming of age ceremonies.

 http://www.redding.com/news/2012/may/22/tribe-plans-close-part-lake-shasta-during-war-dan/

Although I can sympathize with the plight of the Winnemem, they aren't yet a federally-recognised tribe, nor do they have any exclusive rights to the ceremonial area they wish to use, (having been denied a use permit by Parks service in this instance).  While it would be best if there were some mutual respect of traditions, (between infringing upon 'rights' in either direction), a viable solution must consider that someone is going to be infringed upon there.

The state of California has plans to raise the Shasta dam by 18 feet, which will flood virtually every sacred site of the Wintu tribe. If this happens, tribal recognition will not happen. I will post a video and let Lyla address some of that.....

23

Debate & Discuss / Re: Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: May 23, 2012, 12:39:40 pm »Message ID: 541924

I am not aware of any Nations who violated terms of any of the 300+ treaties entered into with the U.S. Especially, not being the first to do so. However, every treaty has been broken by the U.S.

That is, however, not the point of the article. The point being that most people mistake treaty obligations of the U.S. for being welfare. It is not, it is much the same as with any citizens debts, if you stop paying your car, house etc payment, what happens? Would you see your payments of such as welfare benefits that the lending institution is receiving?

24

Debate & Discuss / Tribe plans to blockade part of Lake Shasta

« on: May 23, 2012, 12:10:09 pm »Message ID: 541913

In this thread I mean to kill a few birds with one stone so to speak.

I promised JDog that I would post about our young people working to protect our Culture and Traditions.
I also wish to elaborate a bit about my Niece Lyla, whom I mentioned in an earlier thread and finally to address this Nations fight to save their sacred sites as well as their chance at federal recognition.

My Niece who recently graduated from Stanford, worked as an intern for this tribe and lived amongst them while doing so. She also did her honors thesis on this tribes sacred sites issue. I mentioned that she was unavailable at this time, and wont go into specifics of that other than to say that last week she was on the Piute Rez in Nevada and this week she is in California. I will post more on my Nieces efforts in this thread in the coming days.


The following page tells of this coming weekends efforts by this tribe to protect its traditional Womens coming of age ceremonies.

 http://www.redding.com/news/2012/may/22/tribe-plans-close-part-lake-shasta-during-war-dan/

25

Debate & Discuss / Re: Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: May 23, 2012, 11:57:47 am »Message ID: 541910

I cite: Manifest Destiny and Finders Keepers

....while embracing, of course, the fact that Manifest Destiny has always been a Christian ideology, Finders Keepers is also a concept traditional to only azzholes.

26

Debate & Discuss / Re: e email and read to

« on: May 23, 2012, 10:48:18 am »Message ID: 541874

Here's a question for you....

Do you think you might be able to find your way to, here, http://fusioncash.net/forum.php?board=3.0

or perhaps even, here, http://fusioncash.net/forum.php?board=5.0

27

Debate & Discuss / Indian Benefits: Misnomer and Propaganda

« on: May 23, 2012, 10:27:53 am »Message ID: 541865

"Contrary to popular belief, especially among non-Natives, American Indians did not simply relinquish their rights to lands, waters, and other natural resources. Indeed, as a result of historic negotiations and treaties between the U.S. government and tribal nations, federal agencies are obligated to provide specific rights, services, and protections as payment for the basic wholesale exchange of the land mass of the United States.

Misnomer—the use of a wrong or unsuitable term to describe something.

The United States contractually owes tribal nations. “Indian benefits” is a misnomer for the debt owed to Native peoples. The federal government pledged through laws and treaties to compensate for land exchanges accomplished through the forced removal of tribal nations from their original homelands. Unfortunately, payment is commonly expressed as “benefits.” This term—benefits—implies giving assistance, subsidy, or even charity, rather than deserved reimbursement. The Department of Interior even describes the obligated recompense for American Indians as benefits on its webpage.

On the same website, Indian Affairs describes their programs as part of the “unique and continuing relationship with and responsibility to tribes and Indian people.” Words like “support,” “assist,” and “serve” are used in the description of the nature of the relationship between the Bureau of Indian Affairs and Indian people. That is, the purpose of Indian Affairs is to help us develop our “tribal governments, strong economies, and quality programs.” Within this context, the federal government and its Indian policies are benevolent—for the good of Indians and tribes.

Even the payment bartered keeps changing—and not for the good of Indians and tribes. In 2004, a U.S. Commission for Human Rights report found that the conditions in Indian country are at a crisis point due to chronic underfunding by the federal government. This same report contends that the mismanagement of funds by the BIA in 2000 resulted in a $7.4 billion dollar deficit in unmet needs for Indian country—a third of that in child welfare services. Not one of the six federal agencies responsible for the major expenditures in Indian country received a positive review from the Commission, i.e. the Department of Interior, Department of Health and Human Services, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Department of Justice, Department of Education, and Department of Agriculture.

In any other world, this would constitute default, or perhaps, breach of contract. Instead, the lack of payment by the federal government to the sovereign tribal nations translates into necessary budget cuts and decreased social welfare spending.

Propaganda—communication dispersed widely to influence personal and societal attitudes.

Even worse, tribal citizens endure the stigma that accompanies this discourse of Indian benefits. Whether receiving health care, picking up USDA commodities, or living in subsidized Indian housing, Native people experience shame from being treated as if they are receiving a hand-out, not deserved reimbursement. How do I know? Over the past three years, as part of my academic research about issues in Indian Country, I’ve spoken with hundreds of Native folks representing tribes from all over the country. No matter how the conversations begin, an unsolicited discussion about benefits always comes up.

Most of these Native folks express real anger when discussing the normality of non-Indian people thinking that Indians do not pay taxes and receive copious benefits, like free education, housing, healthcare, and profits from casinos. They believe that nonNative people, in general, misunderstand what services are offered and how often people receive them. Comments like “we’re all getting money from the casinos or handouts from the government” are so common. They speak of the humiliation of sitting in clinics or signing up for programs.

Lillie, an indigenous woman pursuing a master’s degree, summed it particularly well, vehemently stating, “I get sick of working with friends or people and they say, ‘Well, at least you get your school paid for.’ Uh, no, I don’t. Then they say, ‘But you get your healthcare free.’ Yeah well, you sit in the clinic all day. See how you like it. It’s a shoddy system. Also, people think we don’t pay taxes. Hey, nobody gave me that memo.”

Framing the obligatory and promised compensation by the U.S. government as merely “benefits” perpetuates the idea of Native dependency, rather than tribal sovereignty. On its most basic level, sovereignty is tribal self-rule. Sovereignty is the one thing that has been successful in breaking the historical socioeconomic dependency of tribes on the U.S. government.

However, the rhetoric of sovereignty itself becomes the stumbling block. After all, if tribes are sovereign nations with self-rule, why does the U.S. have to support and assist them? Why must the good people of the United States continue to support “Indian Benefits” with their hard-earned tax dollars? The American public must be educated that we’re not asking for any favors or charity—just what is owed to us. Nothing more, but certainly, nothing less.

Dwanna L. Robertson is a citizen of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, a doctoral student at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and a public sociologist, and an invited speaker. Having grown up in Oklahoma, attending stomps and going to wild onion dinners, she can’t wait to get back west as soon as possible."



Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ict_sbc/indian-benefits-misnomer-and-propaganda http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ict_sbc/indian-benefits-misnomer-and-propaganda#ixzz1viNc5wHJ

28

Debate & Discuss / Re: Anasazi ancient ancestors?

« on: May 23, 2012, 10:03:47 am »Message ID: 541852

"
850-1250 A.D.

The first people to inhabit this region, the Anasazi, or "Ancient Ones", resided in communities from 850 - 1200 A.D. Chaco Canyon served as a major urban center of ancestral Puebloan culture. Thousands congregated around the area to trade and hold ceremonies. Various ruins located at Chaco Canyon National Historical Park, Mesa Verde National Park, Aztec Ruins National Park, Salmon Ruins & Heritage Park, and Canyon de Chelly......."

http://www.indiancountrynm.org/default.aspx

29

Debate & Discuss / Re: Anasazi ancient ancestors?

« on: May 22, 2012, 06:03:20 pm »Message ID: 541519

From "Signs of Life, rock art of the upper Rio Grande" by Dennis Slifer

"The people we call Anasazis( a Navajo word meaning "Ancient Ones," or Ancient Enemies") originated on the Colorado Plateau from Desert Archaic people about 2,000 years ago.Their culture became the largest and best known of all prehistoric southwestern cultures. They were primarily a horticultural society, growing corn, beans, and squash for their food staples. The Basketmaker Period of the Anasazis preceded the Pueblo Period, the latter commencing around A.D. 700. Spectacular cliff dwellings and multistoried masonry pueblos with underground ceremonial chambers, known as Kivas, are the architectural characteristics of the classic Anasazi period. The Anasazi tradition spans a period from at least 200 B.C. to approximately A.D. 1540, when the Spanish entered the Southwest. Modern Pueblo peoples living along the Rio Grande, and at Hopi, Zuni, and Acoma, are descendants of the Anasazis.

Unlike many of their neighbors who shared common Desert Archaic origin and lifestyles, the Anasazi people exhibited a tendency to radical change throughout their history. Their culture became more complex with time, perhaps due in part to the well-documented contacts with the cultures of Mexico across the desert to the south, where maize, beans, and squash were first domesticated. These foods became the staples of village life throughout the southwest, and Anasazi civilization was supported by them. Many other developments from Mexico, and elsewhere, shaped Anasazi culture, including pottery, irrigation techniques, the bow and arrow, cotton and loom weaving, as well as esoteric knowledge and religious ideas...............


..........Today, there are 19 Pueblo Indian tribes with a combined population of 50,000. The Anasazis are alive and well in the Rio Grande Valley and at Acoma, Zuni, and Hopi, although some Pueblo people prefer the Hopi term "Hisatsinom" (Ancient People) to describe their ancestors.Despite four centuries of political domination by European- derived cultures, the Pueblo people still thrive and have preserved much of their ancient heritage."

30

Debate & Discuss / Re: Anasazi ancient ancestors?

« on: May 22, 2012, 05:17:33 pm »Message ID: 541494

I have been looking in some books and various websites but I think my initial comment is going to be by way of an instant message conversation with a friend of mine, yesterday. Shanna is Dine(Navajo):

Me:
Hiya

Shanna Mitchell
HEY WALKS! GOOD AFTERNOON

Me:
Hi

Me:
was wanting to ask you about something I have been studying
maybe you can explain something to me
The word Anasazi is Navajo but I'm finding two separate and conflicting translations

Shanna Mitchell
WHICH ARE?

Me:
One site I looked at claimed it was something to the effect of Ancient ones who are not us. another says enemy ancestors

Shanna Mitchell
what my grandma told me was Anasazis were our ancestors, ancient times

Me:
I thought I had heard that before. Thanks, I guess the Pueblos up here are also decended so that would be like what, cousins to the Dine?

Shanna Mitchell
most definitely.

Me
kool, and how about Hopi and Zuni?

Shanna Mitchell
YEP...





I have a Niece (honorary) who is Dine, and also graduated last year with honors from Stanford University with a degree in Anthropology.

I am hoping to speak to her soon however right now she is "unavailable". Not sure when I will speak with her.