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Topic: Serious questions for believers  (Read 12114 times)

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2010, 11:24:33 am »
It is never gonna happen since no one can prove there is no God.

No one will ever be able to prove 100% there is no god, correct, BUT just because we cannot absolutely disprove him/her/it does not mean that is a good argument FOR god.  We need to get people thinking and observing what is true as far as we can know what is true rather than staying hung up on wishful thinking.  That is the best model.

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Why would believers want to think about there being no God when in fact there is one?

No, marieelissa, you do not get to say "in fact there is one".  God is NOT A FACT.  And THAT'S a fact.  lol

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Those that really believe will not be able to contribute to your little exercise.

Of course they can.  Because god is NOT A FACT, there is a very real possibility that perhaps they as a believer are mistaken, have been brainwashed and led astray by wishful thinking (which is what is clear to all non-god people).  They have this whole charade going on in their head to keep god alive, but deep down, at some point, some of them have feared that they could be wrong about what happens when they die and what the scientific evidence points to is right.  Because god is conveniently invisible, because so much bad sh*t happens, or for whatever other very valid reason to DOUBT...I'm saying, don't shut this opportunity to ponder the alternative to your god.  Better to be prepared for it to be the actual reality of our world than to ignore it and cover it up with a popular lie (religion).

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It isn't good to try to make people not believe in God.

Yes it is!  I have confidence that most of you would be just fine knowing the truth (that this is all there is), harsh as it seems at first.  BUT...believers can only help themselves.  No atheist can change them.

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It is like me asking all atheists to sit back and think about what they would do if there was a God and how would they feel if they found out they were wrong and would it affect them in either a good way or bad way.

Uh, we've all already addressed this individually.

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a lot of believers will think what you are doing on these forums is Evil and coming from the Devil...maybe that's why people start being offensive or look like trolls.

I'm aware of that, to which I ask you to ponder how ridiculous it is that some red guy with a pitchfork is running around possessing people.  And if you're "good" you go to the good place, and if you're "bad" you go to the bad place.  C'mon, that is so clearly man-made fairytale B.S. right there.  THINK about it!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 11:26:44 am by queenofnines »
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

Falconer02

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2010, 07:26:26 pm »
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Do remember you are talking to a Schizophrenic and that I hear and see things that other people say are not there. That is why I know God is there...The doctor's only diagnosed me Schizophrenic because they are going by Science and that there is no God.

I have heard my Grandfather say my name twice since he died...I had a women's voice tell me to open a Blue Present under the Christmas Tree because it was mine and that before I could open any more my mother would be out there to hand me all my presents (Guess the women didn't want me to open any one else presents) but anyways the whole incident is on Home Movies and my Grandmother was like "Elissa are you sure that is yours" and I said "yes cause it is blue" btw is was my present and I was only 4 years old...

There are many, many, many, many, many other things like this that took place in my life! So I have 1 of 5 options to pick from

Either:
1.) I am Schizophrenic (which is really cool, and my mind is awsome how it can do things like that and very entertaining and interesting and not a bad thing at all..yet)
2.) I have a gift (born with it)
3.) It is ET
4.) I am just supremely intelligent where it almost seems I am psychic (which my dad's IQ is off the charts btw)
5.) There is a God and people rely on their own findings and search for answers themselves (Science) and dismiss God and God is doing all this stuff with me.

LMAO!!!! Oh wow this is $$$ INTERNET GOLD $$$!!!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 07:29:57 pm by Falconer02 »

jcribb16

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2010, 10:18:27 pm »
 :cat: Well, I answered the hypothetical questions, but I now need to make a firm statement. I do believe in God, and nothing will alter that, no matter how deep you want us to delve into this issue.  I could turn your question around and ask you to consider that yes, there is a God, but no matter what you do about it, it sounds like your mind is also made up on what you believe.  A lot of debate questions and answers in here keep proving that each will continue to believe what they believe and that is that. (It's sad that some can get off track by criticising certain people in here.)  I can say, though, that there are many people who do turn their decisions around due to evidence of things that happen to them, or changes in people they know (attitude differences, lifestyle, etc.) when they chose God, and studying God's Word.  I will say I will pray for all of us in here.  It will be interesting to check back periodically and see if any changes are made one way or another.  This has been a most interesting debate!!!  :heart: :star: :thumbsup:

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2010, 07:57:10 am »
Quote from: marieelissa
No it's more like Priceless

Then why did you delete it?   ;D  

I do believe in God, and nothing will alter that, no matter how deep you want us to delve into this issue.

That's fine and that may be true.  It's good you at least honestly thought about it.  However, I don't think we should always be quick to tie ourselves down to one kind of lifestyle forever, because we don't know what future events may happen that may lead us to question our current lifestyles.

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I could turn your question around and ask you to consider that yes, there is a God

Well the thing is, me, jordandog, and Falconer all used to be true biblical believers, so we have considered it.  It often appears that Christians forget that - like most people who are atheists/agnostics have always been - when that is rarely the case.

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it sounds like your mind is also made up on what you believe.

No, I'd be willing to believe in a god if there was any good evidence for it.  But there's not.  There is heaps of evidence AGAINST the biblical god specifically, and that is why I am an atheist.  I cannot ignore the facts to cater to me feelings, no matter how badly I want to have purpose in my life or live more than 80 years.

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A lot of debate questions and answers in here keep proving that each will continue to believe what they believe and that is that.

That is that only in the short-term.  Life-altering changes like going from believer to non take time, but it can and has been done.

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(It's sad that some can get off track by criticising certain people in here.)

Don't be too perturbed by it.  Certain people get a kick out of stirring trouble up, and therefore they must be shot down in a way that looks like criticizing, but is really just quality content control.

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I can say, though, that there are many people who do turn their decisions around due to evidence of things that happen to them, or changes in people they know (attitude differences, lifestyle, etc.) when they chose God, and studying God's Word.

And you know what?  9.9/10 of those "shifts to god" are due to entirely emotional reasons/events, which the person doesn't realize is very misleading.  

I was watching something on The Science Channel last night where they took a female test subject and evoked a sense of spiritual/god things simply by stimulating part of her right hemisphere, affirming that god is all in our heads and evolved for survival.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

FuzzyCottonsocks

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2010, 01:55:52 pm »
I think I would be depressed, but would get on with life.  No more prayers at night. I would probably feel more alone and maybe more fearful of death.   

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2010, 03:03:36 pm »
I think I would be depressed, but would get on with life.  No more prayers at night. I would probably feel more alone and maybe more fearful of death.   

I wasn't depressed when I initially made the Christian --> atheist change.  Probably because it's something I suspected and had ready in the back of my mind for a long time, that this may be all there is (if a person doesn't think about this at some point, they are naive).  I was SHOCKED when I realized I was wrong about god though, because I had truly bought into it all for 5 full years.  My newly ex-Christian self was like, "When I'm dead I'm dead?  Oh well."  I moved on and realized nothing had really changed about my life, other than the lies that I used to believe in regards to someone watching out for me, heaven, etc.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

jcribb16

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2010, 04:15:25 pm »
 :cat: Faith is the evidence of things not seen.  People in B.C. (Before Christ) times saw Him.  Now that we are in A.D. (After Death) times, faith is what we have, along with His Word.  Isn't it strange that some people don't even realize the B.C. and A.D. are determined by His life and death.

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2010, 04:27:02 pm »
You must be like a robot or mechanical or something because death is the hardest part about life.

Oh no, there are people who are far more mechanical about it than me.  I think the way I feel about it is pretty healthy.  The only part that I think sucks is if I were young (30s or below) and knew I was going to die.  Then it would be sad because I wouldn't be getting to live my full life.  But once death happens, what can you do?  Nothing.

But as far as what a good number of people get, 70-80 years?  That's plenty if you live your life to the fullest, don't take things too seriously, and live to make YOURSELF (not some authority figure) happy.  Sure it may be nice if we could amp it up to a few hundred years of life expectancy, but forever?  No thanks.  (Btw, when your brain and body are destroyed, the matter recycles itself back into the universe, so in that sense, we are all "immortal").

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What if your husband got in a bad accident and died and that was it, you never see him again? You cannot communicate with him because there are no souls. That's just it, dead, gone, forever.

Hmm, that is pretty awful of you to say, but anyway, of course I would be devastated.  I would be devastated for exactly the reasons one SHOULD be devastated: he's gone for freaking ever!  Which is exactly why we should all cherish those who are important to us.

I always wondered how I'd react when someone important in my life died because it hadn't really happened, and when my dad did a few years ago, I wept BECAUSE they turned his memorial service into this fake, god-filled event of "oh, he's in heaven now".  No, he freaking killed himself, so he's not in heaven even by your Christian standards.  Sorry, TMI?  ;)

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You mean to tell me you could just go on about your day like that's life and things happen and you are unaffected - like O'Well - people die.

Not at first!  I'm sure I'd be quite depressed for a good year or two.  But eventually I'd have to move on if I want to continue living.  And that's the healthy thing to do.

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That's why people say they would be depressed if there was no God because of the above stuff I just mentioned.

And I don't get why people would be depressed without god.  There are SO many good things in life that make it worth living...love, pizza, kittens, puppies, roller coasters, ice cream, games, good conversation, travel, movies, TV shows, hobbies, comedy, music, sports, art...to infinity and beyond!
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

Tturn

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2010, 04:52:16 pm »
The primary reason for any intelligent atheist not believing god is that there is evidence is against him!  Evidence that cannot be clearly seen when one is being suffocated by the security blanket of religion.
[/quote][/b]
 Thats just it, what athiest don't understand, is that GOD OR CHRIST are not a RELIGION, they are RELATIONSHIPS. And when you finally open your spiritual eyes and ears to God by asking him into your heart and you allow yourself to be humbled before him and let go of running your own life. Then and only then will you see God and hear him. But if you think just because you believe that THATS going to get you into heaven and yet you are still living for yourself then you will parish. He says you cannot be luke warm or he will spit you out. People will say they believed in him and casted out Demons in his name and he will turn and say turn away i never new you. The fact is its simple, God does exist and people dont want to believe because they dont want to give up there lives or material things that they think they earned all by themselves and refuse to want to change because there afraid and blinded by fear, and until blinders are removed Satan will keep playing Athiest for a fool as well as anyone who doesnt want to live there life for God. God knows were human and flaud and he knows you by your heart and fruit and so do people. God will forgive but you have to forgive yourself, others and Love your neighbor as yourself because thats what Gods is all about,he is Love. He only want us to live happy lives like we do for our childern. God knows you better than you do because he created you so he knows what will make you happy. Read your Bible its true. Faith is believing before seeing not seeing before believing. Remember his son paid the price for us. People are saying about pushing there views on people, wake up the governments already doing that. People who are pushing Christ on people are the ones who care if you parish because they know time is running out. Its time to take a stand and be strong in Christ before its to late.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 05:09:52 pm by Tturn »

dbongi22

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2010, 07:04:59 pm »
I would have to say the bigger downer would be that I would no longer have anyone to look out for me. Like even if there is no God now, I still need to be able to believe in him in order to have someone I can always talk to.

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2010, 07:13:18 pm »
I would have to say the bigger downer would be that I would no longer have anyone to look out for me.

Yes, it can be scary if you focus on "oh crap, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and nothing can stop it".  But the statistics are in our favor to live a long, healthy life for the most part (unless you blatantly do things to contradict that), and you can't live your life in fear, otherwise you're not really living at all.

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Like even if there is no God now, I still need to be able to believe in him in order to have someone I can always talk to.

You can find a few good people out there to help with this.  Or an animal.   :cat: :dog:  But mainly yes, you do need to be able to rely on yourself, and I've found that hard at times myself.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

Falconer02

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2010, 07:31:01 pm »
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Isn't it strange that some people don't even realize the B.C. and A.D. are determined by His life and death.

We've changed this to BCE and CE.

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Thats just it, what athiest don't understand, is that GOD OR CHRIST are not a RELIGION, they are RELATIONSHIPS. And when you finally open your spiritual eyes and ears to God by asking him into your heart and you allow yourself to be humbled before him and let go of running your own life. Then and only then will you see God and hear him.

Yes. The relationship you speak of is a religion based on feelings only. I've heard of this many times. This sounds so anti-progressive though..just let go of all realism and jump into happyland? Do you let your guard down and let yourself be taken by magical thinking? Could you explain to me how this isn't the whole 'opiate for the people' idea?

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The fact is its simple, God does exist and people dont want to believe because they dont want to give up there lives or material things that they think they earned all by themselves and refuse to want to change because there afraid and blinded by fear, and until blinders are removed Satan will keep playing Athiest for a fool as well as anyone who doesnt want to live there life for God.

I'm not in a position to say if god exists or not, but (like I always say), the supernatural needs overwhelming supernatural evidence. If you say all of these things, show proof of the metaphysical and I'll believe you. But it seems all you have here is magical thinking, old stories with a personalized deity, and a typical antagonist. That's all atheists and agnostics ask for-- solid proof that passes basic skepticism. Do you have any? And why would god judge me for asking that? Sounds like a convenient thought process to keep your head in the sand, does it not?

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God will forgive but you have to forgive yourself, others and Love your neighbor as yourself because thats what Gods is all about,he is Love

Forgive what? I'm not evil and I was not born evil. I have no unsound burdens that you yourself have with this faith. And about god and love...answer me this-
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
Is He able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

(Epicurus)

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Read your Bible its true.

Have you ever opened it before?

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People who are pushing Christ on people are the ones who care if you parish because they know time is running out. Its time to take a stand and be strong in Christ before its to late.

And what of the other 1,000's of other religions and their gods who think the exact same thing you do? What about the nice and peaceful ones that don't do this?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 07:39:21 pm by Falconer02 »

jcribb16

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2010, 10:38:28 pm »
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Isn't it strange that some people don't even realize the B.C. and A.D. are determined by His life and death.

We've changed this to BCE and CE.

 :cat: The change is not official as of yet.  Even the BCE and CE are coined with Christ: *"Common Era is also known as Christian Era and Current Era.; *Dates before the year 1 CE are indicated by the usage of BCE, short for "Before the Common Era", "Before the Christian Era", or "Before the Current Era".; *Both the BCE/CE and BC/AD are based on a sixth-century estimate for the year in which Jesus was born, with the common era originating among Christians in Europe at least as early as 1615." 

Regardiing the Bible, I have opened and read It.  It is part of my daily devotion life.  Have you opened and read It?

**Note to Tturn:  Your words are so true - I definitely agree with what you have to say.

queenofnines

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2010, 08:59:13 am »
Note to marieelissa: will you PUH-lease stop copy-pasting giant things in your responses?  No one is going to bother to read it, especially when it's in that Lucida handwriting.

The change is not official as of yet.

Even if it was/is "Before Christ", "Anno Domini" - that doesn't prove a thing.  Culture at large is such a hodgepodge of mythical stuff.  Some of the months of the year are named after Roman gods, for example.  Is this "proof" to go worship Janus (January), Mars (March), or Maiesta (May)??  I think not.

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Have you opened and read It?

Yes he has and the only reason he's saying that to you is because the Bible is one of the most potent forces for atheism/agnosticism ever conceived (to quote Isaac Asimov ;-) ).  Filled with rape, murder, slavery, sexism, animal and human sacrifice, ridiculous laws, stupid stories, bad science, Bronze Age ideas, etc. etc....any Christian who claims to have read the Bible is either (1) LYING; they've only read selective feel-good parts or only know what they've been taught at church (the majority of Xtians) or (2) DELUDED; if you can honestly sit down and read the Bible diligently straight through starting with page one and find no problems with it, you are either not paying attention or so far off the deep end in wanting to cling to your beliefs that you cannot realize how vile the Bible is and what a d*ck god is.

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**Note to Tturn:  Your words are so true - I definitely agree with what you have to say.

Eh, I usually don't bother to respond to paragraphs that go off on a cultish rant, a run-on paragraph filled with the words/phrases "Jesus", "died for our sins", and "it's a relationship".  It's pretty obvious that the person is too far-gone to be able to listen to any reason, but kudos to Falconer for responding.
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-- Carl Sagan

2getherwewin

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Re: Serious questions for believers
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2010, 09:17:44 am »
What is the serious question all about?  There is a lot of question concerning that subject.  It's alot to think about.

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