Obama taking Bushes place and having to clean up after him

[gallerygoo]

First off I would like to say thank you to Marieelissa who pointed out Debate & Discuss wasn't being used correctly.  Thank you.   What I want to know is why do people think President Obama is going to be able to fix a National Debt in 2 years that took President Bush 8 years to make.  This is absolutely rediculous even if he cleaned it up in 4 it would be a miracle but I am open to everybodies opinion, However to expect anybody to do this would be insane.  When Clinton was in office we were making money Bush came in and bam!!! Gone. Even if it was the other way around meaning if Clinton came into office and he put us into a national debt like now I wouldn't expect George Bush to clean it up in 2 years that's just insane.  Lets hear everybodies opinion on this.

[mattymatt79]

While you are technically correct that we ran a surplus under Clinton, the reason behind it was because of massive military base closings and something that's been happening since called BRAC. (Base Relocation and Closure) This process saved a ton of money due to less money being spent, something that makes absolute sense. Where you start to go wrong is in the fact that you start saying this happened under Bush's watch.

A lot of the financial troubles go back to Clinton with the repeal of the Glass Stegal act, loss of this regulation allowed for mortgage backed securities to be openly traded, and actually farther than that to the Community Reinvestment Act as well. See, the big problem though isn't R or D; it's the fact that we have a fiat money system controlled by the invisible hand of the federal reserve.

Here's what pisses me off though about people who have this "It's Bush's fault" mindset. If Obama really really wanted to fix this he easily could.

Lets follow this trail.
Hank Paulsen was in charge of Goldman Sachs. He made 43 million dollars the year before he went to work for the federal government. Why would he go from making that much money to becoming the treasury sec? He helped enact laws that helped wallstreet companies to allow for mortgage backed securities to be traded openly. This caused such a stir that most of these wallstreet companies had to get exemptions from the NY State gambling board because that's exactly what it was, open gambling. The thing is, they were gambling mortgages that were then backed by the federal government. If they win the bet, they make millions (which they did) if they lost well the government bails them out since they're backed by Fannie / Freddie. This is fine however; it got to a point where the amount of people that had crap mortgages that they couldn't afford (The CRA helped this enacted by Jimmy Carter) where all of the bad mortgages that were dumped into securities and then traded were worth less than the paper they were printed on.

Goldman Sachs was one of the prime people in this game, they played the system over and over and over again and companies like Smith Barney and AIG were involved into the insurance of it as well. When AIG was bailed out by us the taxpayer, they paid back Goldman Sachs (which was also bailed out) and then used the money to pay bonuses of their executives. Who enacted the bailout? Tim Geitner... who did Geitner work for? Goldman Sachs.

Larry Summers - Obama's Econmic advisor -> Goldman Sachs
William C. Dudley - president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York -> Goldman Sachs
Gary Gensler - chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission -> Goldman Sachs
Mark Patterson, chief of staff to Tim Geithner, is a former Goldman lobbyist; Philip Murphy, nominated for ambassador to Germany, is a former Goldman executive; Diana Farrell, deputy director of the National Economic Council, is a former Goldman employee; and Emil Michael, White House fellow, used to be an investment banker at Goldman.

These people for some reason were all appointed to Obama's cabinet or the Federal reserve AFTER Obama came to office. Tarp and Stimulus package which was supposed to help people went only to these mega banks which in turn mostly paid back Goldman Sachs. Which then paid its executives bonus and severence packages and none of them went to jail. NONE of them went to jail.

Is Bush at fault? Sure, he started the TARP process, but is he totally to blame? Hell no. And the quicker you realize that your golden child president full of hope and change is nothing more than full of absolute total crap, the quicker you'll realize that banks controll this country, not us the people. By helping people like him get elected you do nothing more than perpetuate the process of us further in debt.

The only way we can actually fix this is by cutting the hell out of our spending as a country. That would mean however; your precious social welfare aid process would stop. Military spending would have to stop. Social Security and Medicaid (which are bankrupt allready) would have to stop.

This president has the same special interests as all of the rest and he is zero different. There will be zero recovery until these things start happening, and don't be surprised if it doesn't massive inflation to happen. Don't be surprised if gas reaches $11 a gallon. Milk over $6, eggs over $7, and don't even think of eating meat, some of the inflation spectrums I've been seeing has it near $25 a pound for beef; slightly less for pork and chicken.

Keep blaming Bush though, it's worked out so well for you in the past

[tantricia44]

What I want to know is why do people think President Obama is going to be able to fix a National Debt in 2 years that took President Bush 8 years to make.    Lets hear everybodies opinion on this.

  President Obama is trying to "fix" the national debt?  Really?  (LOL)  Do you have any idea how much of the taxpayers money he has spent on hisself, family & friends leisurely wants since he's been President?  (Take a good look at what he's just spent to haul his & a whole entourages  happy #@!* to India this month.....the cost of that doesn't ALARM you?)  Did you know he's planning on hitting everyone with higher taxes for New Years?  Yeah, let's keep blaming Bush for a financial mess---money he didn't spend on hisself or his family & friends but money he spent to try & keep America safe.  Let's back a President that would rather spend hard earned tax dollars on his, his family & friends FUN time instead!   

BEFORE U START DUMPING ON YOUR PRESIDENT, CHECK OUT HOW MUCH MONIES WAS SPENT BY THE PAST PRESIDENT(S). COMPARED TO THE PAST PRESIDENTS' IN THE WHITE HOUSE ON FAMILY,FRIENDS, TRIPS, IN SPENDING; THE OBAMA'S SPENDING LOOKS LIKE 2ND CLASS ROYALTY. YA, RIDING AROUND IN A HUMMER TYPE VECH. IS JUST AS BAD AS THE BUSH S' RIDING  AROUND IN LIMOS! SO, YOU CAN LAUGH LIKE A JACKASS IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER? WHY DON'T YOU GO BE PRESIDENT FOR A DAY? IF  IT'S SO EASY FOR YOU TO PLACE JUDGE MENT WHEN YOU'RE NOT IN HIS SHOES. SO,PUT UP OR SHUT UP! TRY BEING PRESIDENT & SEE HOW EASY IT IS?

A. THOSE TAXES YOU SAYING HE'S GOING SEND OUT. HE'S NOT THE ONE PUTTING IT TOGETHER, IT'S THE THE REPS & DEMS /CONGRESS WORKING ON IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
B. THE TRIP OUT OF THE COUNTRY AFTER THAT SHAM OF AN ELECTION ENDED WASN'T A PLEASURE TRIP. IT'S TO TRY TO GET THOSE COUNTRIES TO DROP THE BLOCK THEY HAVE ON AMERICAN EXPORT SO THAT WE CAN SELL THEM OUR GOODS! ....DUUUUUHHHHHHHAAAA.
C. WITH YOUR NEGATIVE ATTITUDE TOWARDS YOUR PRESIDENT, THE NEGATIONS WILL PROBABLY FAIL. THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES WILL SEE US AS NOT RESPECTING OUR PRESIDENT. WHY SHOULD THEY RESPECT HIM IF HIS OWN PEOPLE DON'T? THUS, YOU JUST BURNED YOUR SELF IN THE *bleep* B/C IF HE'S FAILS WE FAILED. NO TRADING W/INDIA & ASIA, NO MONIES COMING INTO THE US, NO JOBS!!!!!! DESTROY YOUR PRESIDENT & YOU DESTROY OUR SELF!!!! TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDE WE FALL!!!!

[mattymatt79]

You say it was a "Sham of an election" why do you say such a thing? As I pointed out in previous posts, young voter turnout was low as well as moderate independant voters voted R.

I've read your post now three times and I still can't really understand what you're trying to say, because it makes little to almost no sense at all.

"THE TRIP OUT OF THE COUNTRY AFTER THAT SHAM OF AN ELECTION ENDED WASN'T A PLEASURE TRIP. IT'S TO TRY TO GET THOSE COUNTRIES TO DROP THE BLOCK THEY HAVE ON AMERICAN EXPORT SO THAT WE CAN SELL THEM OUR GOODS! ....DUUUUUHHHHHHHAAAA."

What goods? We haven't been a manufacturing country in quite some time, due to two reasons 1: the unions driving competition overseas and 2: higher taxes driving buisnesses overseas for a tax shelter and higher profit margins.

If you don't beleive me about the unions, why is it companies like Toyota and Honda that manufacture in right to work states are succeding while Chrystler and GM are being bailed out with taxpayer monies in their union ran and controlled states like Detroit (which is almost totally 100% insolvant)

"C. WITH YOUR NEGATIVE ATTITUDE TOWARDS YOUR PRESIDENT, THE NEGATIONS WILL PROBABLY FAIL. THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES WILL SEE US AS NOT RESPECTING OUR PRESIDENT. WHY SHOULD THEY RESPECT HIM IF HIS OWN PEOPLE DON'T? THUS, YOU JUST BURNED YOUR SELF IN THE *bleep* B/C IF HE'S FAILS WE FAILED. NO TRADING W/INDIA & ASIA, NO MONIES COMING INTO THE US, NO JOBS!!!!!! DESTROY YOUR PRESIDENT & YOU DESTROY OUR SELF!!!! TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDE WE FALL!!!!"

What is a "NEGATION" are you saying we're negating or negotiating. Huge difference. Your econmic theroies that you've come up with couldn't be farther from truth. Again, we're not trading with almost any country and this has nothing to do with what president is actually in office. It has to do with manufacturing and taxation and corporations wanting to get away from the insane tax rates that our federal government has placed on them.

Why should I pay taxes as well as payroll tax as well as employee salaries and EPA regulations and everything else when I could move to Germany (that has a suceeding economy) or India that doesn't have the taxation rate of the US and increase my profits.

I'm sure you won't read any of this, however; maybe someone here will and start to think about maybe researching more than whatever MSNBC/FOX/CNN tells them and actually open their mind up to other ideas and principles especially when it comes to economics.

[tantricia44]

First off I would like to say thank you to Marieelissa who pointed out Debate & Discuss wasn't being used correctly.  Thank you.   What I want to know is why do people think President Obama is going to be able to fix a National Debt in 2 years that took President Bush 8 years to make.  This is absolutely rediculous even if he cleaned it up in 4 it would be a miracle but I am open to everybodies opinion, However to expect anybody to do this would be insane.  When Clinton was in office we were making money Bush came in and bam!!! Gone. Even if it was the other way around meaning if Clinton came into office and he put us into a national debt like now I wouldn't expect George Bush to clean it up in 2 years that's just insane.  Lets hear everybodies opinion on this.

I agree, when Clinton left office we had a surplus for the first time in decades. We were out of the red & when Bush took office everything went to *bleep*-ville. What I couldn't understand is why the American people decided to vote for him again? That's why when the people voted the way they did last midterm; I've termed the American people as "Stupid Americans". Voting due to emotion & fear instead of voting using intelligence & logic. Which is why they voted for Bush again after 9/11 due to emotion & fear. Not b/c Bush was doing anything great in the White House. I don't think that President Obama will be able to fix the National Debt in 2 yrs. The people are against him. They don't respect him & the other countries smell that like a bleeding prey. Why should other countries want to deal with or respect The President when his own people don't respect him. The Americans don't seem to understand that if you hurt or disrespect the president we are only hurting ourselves. No foreign trade , no monies coming into the US, NO JOBS. SO, GO AHEAD AMERICANS AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA, KEEP ON KNOCKING HIM DOWN. IN THE END, YOU'RE ONLY KICKING YOURSELF IN THE *bleep*!

REASONS WHY AMERICAN WILL NOT RECOVER:

1. We can't seem to separate State & Church.
2. We have 2 parties instead of one Country.
3. We  judge our candidates using criteria in the area of; morals, religion, gender style, life style, instead of judging them in the ability to do the job.
4. We, try to Westernize other foreign countries instead Learning their culture & thus having a more positive attitude or work relationship.
5. Priorities are not focused & some less important issues are covered too much. eg. gays in the military, cliniton's fling
6. Billions of dollars on elections.
7. Little or no up dating education for those who have skills that are no longer useful.
8. Government fixing what is wrong here in our country b4 going out to help other countries.
9. Nobody, is found accountable for wrong doing even when caught in the act.
10. Closet billionaires turning the tied due their donations.
11.Instead of taxing the people according their income status, they want tax breaks & right now we're still under the bush tax break policies.
12. Wasting monies on profiling illegal immigrants. There are some people who look white  but are full blooded Mexican, & there are some people that are full blooded American but look Mexican. Who do you think that immigration cops going to target. In a couple of years w/inner marriages or inner coupling you won't know who is who.

[sflynt]

What I want to know is why do people think President Obama is going to be able to fix a National Debt in 2 years that took President Bush 8 years to make.    Lets hear everybodies opinion on this.

 President Obama is trying to "fix" the national debt?  Really?  (LOL)  Do you have any idea how much of the taxpayers money he has spent on hisself, family & friends leisurely wants since he's been President?  (Take a good look at what he's just spent to haul his & a whole entourages  happy #@!* to India this month.....the cost of that doesn't ALARM you?)  Did you know he's planning on hitting everyone with higher taxes for New Years?  Yeah, let's keep blaming Bush for a financial mess---money he didn't spend on hisself or his family & friends but money he spent to try & keep America safe.  Let's back a President that would rather spend hard earned tax dollars on his, his family & friends FUN time instead!  

I agree 100%  

[jordandog]

@tantricia44
First thing? Before you start 'yelling' [in all caps] at anyone, get your facts straight, get your history as far as administrations straight, and learn how the process actually works. This alone is a huge clue:

A. THOSE TAXES YOU SAYING HE'S GOING SEND OUT. HE'S NOT THE ONE PUTTING IT TOGETHER, IT'S THE THE REPS & DEMS /CONGRESS WORKING ON IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

Do you not realize that those bills have to be signed off or vetoed by the sitting President. The power of veto is NOT a limitless well to draw from either, there are set limits on what it can be applied to and it can also be overriden, so it needs to be used wisely.

I am not going to get into all of what I disgree with here right now (because I need to get some sleep for work tonight), but as far as what has been posted up to now, you have been owned by mattymatt79.

[sflynt]

but as far as what has been posted up to now, you have been owned by mattymatt79.

Absolutely.

I love reading his posts.  Mattymatt79

[jcribb16]

@tantricia44
First thing? Before you start 'yelling' [in all caps] at anyone, get your facts straight, get your history as far as administrations straight, and learn how the process actually works. This alone is a huge clue:

A. THOSE TAXES YOU SAYING HE'S GOING SEND OUT. HE'S NOT THE ONE PUTTING IT TOGETHER, IT'S THE THE REPS & DEMS /CONGRESS WORKING ON IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

Do you not realize that those bills have to be signed off or vetoed by the sitting President. The power of veto is NOT a limitless well to draw from either, there are set limits on what it can be applied to and it can also be overriden, so it needs to be used wisely.

I am not going to get into all of what I disgree with here right now (because I need to get some sleep for work tonight), but as far as what has been posted up to now, you have been owned by mattymatt79.

You are right, jordandog!  And I hope a couple of them on here don't mind a gentle reminder that there have been a majority of dems. these past 2 years that have either voted against some ideas reps. had, or the reps. ideas were ignored or balked at.

[jcribb16]

    Mattymatt, you wrote some amazing, truthful responses on here.  I only wish I could have put things as well as you have!   

[mattymatt79]

Thank you all for the very kind words. At this point in my life and raising a family, I've found that I pay far more to what is happening with regards to financial and economics than I do straight up politics. However; the two almost go hand in hand with how entangled they are.

There is so much good reading out there that is very unslanted, you just have to really dig for it.

Mises and Lew Rockwell come to mind off the top of my head. Campaign for Liberty as well as Young Americans for Liberty and pretty much anything written by Ron Paul. I find it SO fascinating honestly and the more I read the more I crave more knowledge on the subjects.

A great book is called Nullification by Tom Woods; he lays out the principles of the 10th Amendment and a lot of other things.
The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War from Tom DiLorenzo and Hammilton's Curse are other real good reads.


All-in-all, I don't even consider myself a Republican anymore, more so a Libertarian that seems to vote R. I just find it appalling though that people still don't get it especially when it comes to things SO almost obvious with a little bit of outside research and that's what honestly pisses me off the most.   

[jcribb16]

   I agree with you, mattymatt.  I, myself, have gotten so much more involved in politics and what goes on in Washington in the past few years than I ever have.  There are so many things happening under certain people/leaders that I am really concerned about the future of America as we know it and love it.  I hope this election that just took place will be a positive start to straightening out things, stopping things from taking place without major changes, and doing what is best for America and its citizens as a whole. 

[mattymatt79]

My answers as to why you're so far out of the loop will be in a different color.

REASONS WHY AMERICAN WILL NOT RECOVER:

1. We can't seem to separate State & Church.
We have a very seperated church and state. The laws that affect churches are much more stringent due to tax standing 501(c)3 status than any other nonprofit organization

2. We have 2 parties instead of one Country.
This is a good thing, I don't agree with a damn thing that you say, why in the hell should I not be allowed to vote differently, what you're petitioning for is a communisitic state that we can view in history has not worked at all

3. We  judge our candidates using criteria in the area of; morals, religion, gender style, life style, instead of judging them in the ability to do the job.
Some of us actually have morals and a faith, it's what makes the US so great, the fact that we can have these differences. Some of us out there vote pro-life regardless of R or D what you're saying here is we should move towards an Orellian 1984 type culture?

4. We, try to Westernize other foreign countries instead Learning their culture & thus having a more positive attitude or work relationship.
I actually agree with you on this one actually to a point. I don't like the fact how we using our military forces westernization upon other countries, however; your flaw is where you say positive attitude and work relationship. We don't need other countries to work, we don't need other countries to produce yet with higher taxes it's easier for countries to move over seas. Mega companies move overseas they impose their culture on locals. It's what happens regardless of intent.

5. Priorities are not focused & some less important issues are covered too much. eg. gays in the military, cliniton's fling
To some people, this is a big deal. And who the hell are you to determine what people think are less or more important?

6. Billions of dollars on elections.
Sort of agree here, but well, why does it matter? What pisses me off is how people run on platforms but as soon as in office those same special interest groups that donated want votes to go in their way or legislation brought up to benefit them. Hello there labor unions, I'm looking at you SEIU, AFL-CIO, the list goes on and on.

7. Little or no up dating education for those who have skills that are no longer useful.
How is this the governments fault? Educate yourself, don't rely on the nanny state to provide for you. Use your own skills to succeed, if they're not then get this, learn new skills.

8. Government fixing what is wrong here in our country b4 going out to help other countries.
Agree, we need to leave the UN and quit worrying about what the UN wants. This will not happen with a Democrat in office, especially one completely backed by George Soros. Let me guess, you don't know who he is or if you do, how him and the UN are so in the pockets of this Administration he currently is

9. Nobody, is found accountable for wrong doing even when caught in the act.
In what regards? The judicial system works.

10. Closet billionaires turning the tied due their donations.
Yes, look at the SEIU, AFL-CIO, George Soros, Think Progress, Moveon.org, Huffington Post all of them were billion dollar donors to the DNC and Obama's election. Nothing to see here and is status-quo.

11.Instead of taxing the people according their income status, they want tax breaks & right now we're still under the bush tax break policies.
Do you even know what IRS code is on taxes? Do you have any idea how much the top 10% pays in income tax? Have you done any outside research AT ALL using easy to find information from the IRS as to how tax works? Have you studied any tax law? The top 1% of income earners pay 35% of ALL taxes in the US. The bottom % pays between 2% and 0% based on current tax law. Have you looked into any of this on your own? Or is this strictly to what MSNBS has told you? You could easily look this info up on irs.gov. Unlike this stimulus and QE2 and TARP, tax cuts actually help cure a recssion, but they only work if you CUT SPENDING. I'm a fan of these cuts and I hope they continue obviously though that would mean welfare queens wouldn't get their money.

12. Wasting monies on profiling illegal immigrants. There are some people who look white  but are full blooded Mexican, & there are some people that are full blooded American but look Mexican. Who do you think that immigration cops going to target. In a couple of years w/inner marriages or inner coupling you won't know who is who.
Immigration laws exist for a reason. Stopping people for a terry stop is not illegal if you have probable cause. Producing a valid drivers licences is not illegal if you've been stopped. Getting arrested for being in this country ILLEGALLY is not profiling.

[jcribb16]

Quote from tantricia:
4. We, try to Westernize other foreign countries instead Learning their culture & thus having a more positive attitude or work relationship.

Quote from mattymat:
I actually agree with you on this one actually to a point. I don't like the fact how we using our military forces westernization upon other countries, however; your flaw is where you say positive attitude and work relationship. We don't need other countries to work, we don't need other countries to produce yet with higher taxes it's easier for countries to move over seas. Mega companies move overseas they impose their culture on locals. It's what happens regardless of intent.

I would like to add here that learning cultures of foreign countries is interesting.  However, we don't need to learn other cultures to have a more positive attitude or work relationship.  That comes from within and how we, as individuals, choose to act.
 One other thing that really concerns me, is accepting other countries' cultures in the U.S. to a point that they take advantage of our acceptance and try to insert their ways into our ways, or try to change our ways.  Ex.:  Sharia Law (We do not approve of or do this in America, but as of even now, they are slowly infiltrating different towns and states with this, in the communities, and especially in the courts.) This should not be allowed, but yet it is, slowly but surely.

[Falconer02]

If you don't mind, mattymatt...I'd like to add a few things to your responses to tantricia.

We have a very seperated church and state. The laws that affect churches are much more stringent due to tax standing 501(c)3 status than any other nonprofit organization

Good point. But in a charismatic sense, politicians use their church as a weapon in an election and then use their faith to irrationally justify their stance. A good recent example is this- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328366/John-Shimkus-Global-warming-wont-destroy-planet-God-promised-Noah.html
It's very easy to observe that the population is still swayed by garbage like this; "mention my faith and you have my support!" and...I'll just end this with JFK-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAvHHTt2czU

o some people, this is a big deal. And who the hell are you to determine what people think are less or more important?

I dunno about this...in the past I've been in conversations with people that held the entire democratic party negatively accountable for the Clintons personal affairs but then kept changing the subject when I mentioned the war. It does not take a genius to smell the ignorant bullshitters.

ll-in-all, I don't even consider myself a Republican anymore, more so a Libertarian that seems to vote R. I just find it appalling though that people still don't get it especially when it comes to things SO almost obvious with a little bit of outside research and that's what honestly pisses me off the most.

lol join the club, man! My friend and I think just like this. But unfortunately you're going to see a lot of naivety and ignorance in this forum. Especially in the religious threads.

ne other thing that really concerns me, is accepting other countries' cultures in the U.S. to a point that they take advantage of our acceptance and try to insert their ways into our ways, or try to change our ways.

Welcome to mankinds history. You're going to see this in every culture. And if you're going to be afraid of muslim ideals getting in the way of politics and such, maybe you should acknowledge the hypocrisy with your beliefs.