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Topic: Second Coming  (Read 16630 times)

madeara

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Second Coming
« on: June 02, 2012, 07:47:19 am »
Hebrews 9:28
New International Version (NIV)
28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
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rghvac69

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 08:09:52 am »
The signs are definitely pointing to Christ returning soon.

Falconer02

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 10:05:44 am »
Just a heads up- Please either keep your bible quotes to one thread or just post them in Off Topic. You're going to end up flooding this forum and the admins will not like that.

Quote
The signs are definitely pointing to Christ returning soon

...as all of the Christians have been saying for nearly 2000 years now...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 10:07:16 am by Falconer02 »

falcon9

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2012, 04:41:07 pm »
Just a heads up- Please either keep your bible quotes to one thread or just post them in Off Topic. You're going to end up flooding this forum and the admins will not like that.

Not only that but, if some xtians 'believe' that it would be a good idea to spam the d&d forum with bible-thumping proselytizations, objections to that 'idea' will be forthcoming in a most unambiguous way.

Quote
The signs are definitely pointing to Christ returning soon

...as all of the Christians have been saying for nearly 2000 years now...

Such a forlorn hope arises out of blind faith and not from reason or evidence.

"The fundamentalists, by 'knowing' the answers before they start, and then forcing nature into the straitjacket of their discredited preconceptions, lie outside the domain of science --or any honest intellectual inquiry."
-- Stephen J. Gould
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

rghvac69

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2012, 06:59:58 pm »
Blind faith has nothing to do with my belief that Christ is returning soon. The benchmark of the end times began with the reformation of the state of Israel, which was predicted in the bible. Since then, we have had globalization, an increase in earthquakes and storms, an alliance between Russia and Iran, moral decay, economic woes, terrorism, and many other things which the bible predicted over 2000 years ago. I read these prophecies, and wonder how man could have invented them, since man cannot accurately predict the weather or stock market from day-to-day, which convinces me that these predictions were revealed to the prophets by God. To read a prediction, and see it come to pass, to me, is evidence that the bible is true, and that my beliefs are based on reason, and not blind faith.

falcon9

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2012, 07:29:49 pm »
Blind faith has nothing to do with my belief that Christ is returning soon.

Unless you're kidding; that's the most illogical, irrational thing I've come across all day.  It's a belief, which means it relies entirely upon blind faith, (and that means a contention which lacks valid supporting evidence).

The benchmark of the end times began with the reformation of the state of Israel, which was predicted in the bible.

The use of a self-referential source, (in this instance, one of several 'biblical' sources), is circular and self-invalidating.  That is, it's the contextual-equivalant of asserting that 'the source material is valid and accurate because the source material asserts that it is valid and accurate.'

Since then, we have had globalization ...

We've also had industialization, technical innovations, medical advances and other very conspicuous changes which were Not "prophesized" in the dubious source being referenced.  Please provide a reasoned explanation for these glaring omissions which definitely affect the state of the world's populations just as much, (or more), than the biblical cites mentioned.

... an increase in earthquakes and storms ...

Nope, those are running at about the same same frequency as always, (cites can be provided).  What else?

... an alliance between Russia and Iran ...

Is it actually being asserted that such an alliance was specifically predicted in the biblical source referenced, (and not 'liberally-interpreted' instead)?  What else?

... moral decay, economic woes ...

We've also got tooth decay and the decay of radioactive isotopes - all of which has been going on since there were people, (and before then, in the instance of the isotopes).  "Prophesizing" the obviously-extant is no great feat.  What else?

...terrorism, and many other things which the bible predicted over 2000 years ago.

Oddly enough, the vast majority of such "terrorism" arises from the religious blind faith of some nominally Islamic adherents.  Sounds ironic, doesn't it?  If not, how about 'hypocritical'?

I read these prophecies, and wonder how man could have invented them, since man cannot accurately predict the weather or stock market from day-to-day, which convinces me that these predictions were revealed to the prophets by God.

To read a prediction, and see it come to pass, to me, is evidence that the bible is true, and that my beliefs are based on reason, and not blind faith.

Conversely, not a one of the vague 'biblical cites' presented as 'evidence' which would support your premise as valid or accurate.  Basing a conclusion upon an invalid/inaccurate premise leads to such a conclusion being false.

"Religion is based ... mainly upon fear ... fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand . . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race."
-- Bertrand Russell
                              
                          
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 12:18:43 am by falcon9 »
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

Falconer02

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2012, 09:10:40 pm »
Quote
The benchmark of the end times began with the reformation of the state of Israel, which was predicted in the bible.
Quote
Since then, we have had globalization, an increase in earthquakes and storms, an alliance between Russia and Iran, moral decay, economic woes, terrorism, and many other things which the bible predicted over 2000 years ago.
Quote
I read these prophecies, and wonder how man could have invented them, since man cannot accurately predict the weather or stock market from day-to-day, which convinces me that these predictions were revealed to the prophets by God.

"To read a prediction, and see it come to pass, to me, is evidence that the bible is true, and that my beliefs are based on reason, and not blind faith."

Before I begin, let me first state that I'm not here to start some emotional quarrel, so if you simply want to have a friendly debate and someone to challenge the validity of what you're preaching, by all means keep posting to me and/or Falcon9.

So you say that your beliefs are based within reason, so I will take you as someone who is a reasonable individual and capable of debating your side within rational means. You must understand that in order for something as amazing as a prophecy to be true, it must be 100% accurate with good descriptions and explanations-- saying otherwise would be irrational if you refuse to allow skepticism in your reasoning process. Why is this important? Because if you allow for vague descriptions, anyone can be a prophet (example- "there will be a war in the future, therefore I'm a prophet!"). Now a lot of these prophecies you've listed are just flat-out false, and anyone who is reasonable could see this. How can you say you base your beliefs on reason when-
a.) earthquakes and storms have not gotten worse
b.) alliances are formed and are broken throughout history
c.) Moral decline is always within the eye of the beholder (we're actually better off imo considering we can enforce strict laws, don't have colloseums where we watch men slaughter eachother, etc.)
d.) Economic woes are nothing new historically
e.) Terrorism is nothing new either and is found in every world power throughout history

So how are your beliefs based on reason when your evidences for these beliefs are either vague, false, or uninformed?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 09:14:32 pm by Falconer02 »

Cuppycake

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 07:48:38 am »
The gullibility of the masses never ceases to amaze me.   

Cuppycake

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2012, 07:50:07 am »
Blind faith has nothing to do with my belief that Christ is returning soon. The benchmark of the end times began with the reformation of the state of Israel, which was predicted in the bible. Since then, we have had globalization, an increase in earthquakes and storms, an alliance between Russia and Iran, moral decay, economic woes, terrorism, and many other things which the bible predicted over 2000 years ago. I read these prophecies, and wonder how man could have invented them, since man cannot accurately predict the weather or stock market from day-to-day, which convinces me that these predictions were revealed to the prophets by God. To read a prediction, and see it come to pass, to me, is evidence that the bible is true, and that my beliefs are based on reason, and not blind faith.
Yes. Yes it does. So does believing any old  :bs: that you are told apparently.

rghvac69

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2012, 08:43:55 am »
     I’m going to try to get to all these prophecies that I stated, but it might take some time.

     Let’s start with the Russian/Iranian alliance. First some background. Persia changed its name to Iran in the 1930's. Russia is derived from Rus. The current name (Rossiya) comes from the Greek version Rus’, nowadays spelled (Rosia).  Wikipedia .org

     Ezekiel Chapter 38 is where I found the Russian/Iranian alliance during the end times, which is the time period after the restoration of the State of Israel. In the second verse of Ez 38 you will find the words “The Chief Prince” of Meshech and Tubal. The Chief Prince is the word Rosh in the Hebrew language. It should have been translated “the head, or leader of Rosh.” The words Meshech and Tubal are regions near the Caucasus, which is now modern Armenia and Georgia, both former Soviet states.

     In verse 5 you will find Persia (Iran), Ethiopia (Kush or Africa), and Libya (Phut or North Africa). The verse says that these nations, most prominently Persia, will be with the leader of Rosh, or Russia.

     In verse 8 you will find that the time period for this prophecy is during the latter years, or the end times. It also states that these nations will attack Israel, a land that has been brought back from the sword (The Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians around 600 B.C. and the Southern Kingdom of Judah by the Babylonians around 400 B.C.), and was gathered out of many peoples (The Israelites returned to the State of Israel in 1948, coming out of Europe, Asia, and other places.)

     In verse 14 the subject changes back to Gog, which in verse 2 is the nation of Rosh. It states Rosh will come from the North country, and if you find Jerusalem on a map and go north, you will almost intersect Moscow, the capital of Rosh, or Russia. 

     A better translation of Ezekiel 38 can be found in the James Moffatt translation of the bible.

     Now, when I watch the current events on the news, and hear of Russia and Iran becoming allies, and partners in Iran’s nuclear program, and their threats (especially Iran) against Israel, I think of this chapter, and to me, at least, is evidence that this prophecy is correct

potluck6

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 03:47:42 pm »
are people still going to be waiting in the year 3012 guess will never know

falcon9

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 05:10:18 pm »
    Let’s start with the Russian/Iranian alliance.

Let's stop using 'biblical' sources which are self-referential, (which is a logical fallacy and rejected not only on that basis but, on the basis of a self-serving agenda of "it says so in the 'bible' and that's believed without question" - when it is questioned), and are loosely-interpreted as "prophesies".  Such dubious references have no foundation in reason and rely instead entirely upon belief and yes, blind faith.
  
    Now, when I watch the current events on the news, and hear of Russia and Iran becoming allies, and partners in Iran’s nuclear program, and their threats (especially Iran) against Israel, I think of this chapter, and to me, at least, is evidence that this prophecy is correct.

Not only is your "evidence" specious, it does not constitute evidence according to the definition of that term.  What it does constitute is textual hearsay and hearsay is questionable 'witness' testimony, not evidence, (except perhaps of perjory).

"The fundamentalists, by 'knowing' the answers before they start, and then forcing nature into the straitjacket of
their discredited preconceptions, lie outside the domain of science --or any honest intellectual inquiry."
-- Stephen J. Gould


“The notion that faith in 'xrist' is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation, and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance called 'faith.'”
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

duroz

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 01:29:35 am »
    I’m going to try to get to all these prophecies that I stated, but it might take some time.

     Let’s start with the Russian/Iranian alliance. First some background. Persia changed its name to Iran in the 1930's. Russia is derived from Rus. The current name (Rossiya) comes from the Greek version Rus’, nowadays spelled (Rosia).  Wikipedia .org

     Ezekiel Chapter 38 is where I found the Russian/Iranian alliance during the end times, which is the time period after the restoration of the State of Israel. In the second verse of Ez 38 you will find the words “The Chief Prince” of Meshech and Tubal. The Chief Prince is the word Rosh in the Hebrew language. It should have been translated “the head, or leader of Rosh.” The words Meshech and Tubal are regions near the Caucasus, which is now modern Armenia and Georgia, both former Soviet states.

     In verse 5 you will find Persia (Iran), Ethiopia (Kush or Africa), and Libya (Phut or North Africa). The verse says that these nations, most prominently Persia, will be with the leader of Rosh, or Russia.

     In verse 8 you will find that the time period for this prophecy is during the latter years, or the end times. It also states that these nations will attack Israel, a land that has been brought back from the sword (The Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians around 600 B.C. and the Southern Kingdom of Judah by the Babylonians around 400 B.C.), and was gathered out of many peoples (The Israelites returned to the State of Israel in 1948, coming out of Europe, Asia, and other places.)

     In verse 14 the subject changes back to Gog, which in verse 2 is the nation of Rosh. It states Rosh will come from the North country, and if you find Jerusalem on a map and go north, you will almost intersect Moscow, the capital of Rosh, or Russia.  

     A better translation of Ezekiel 38 can be found in the James Moffatt translation of the bible.

     Now, when I watch the current events on the news, and hear of Russia and Iran becoming allies, and partners in Iran’s nuclear program, and their threats (especially Iran) against Israel, I think of this chapter, and to me, at least, is evidence that this prophecy is correct

OK.
Here's something I find to be EQUALLY if not MORE believable:

          Paul McCartney died in a car crash November 9, 1966.
  *The remaining Beatles hushed it up and replaced him with a look-alike, sound-alike.
  *Then they planted clues as proof of this in their albums - in songs, song lyrics, and pictures.
  *It was discovered in 1969 - by an anonymous fan, who called in to a radio show and reported it.

Here is EVIDENCE (some of the clues they planted) PROVING the truth of this:

Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band Album
*Cover picture shows a grave with flowers shaped like a bass guitar-(McCartney's instrument)-and like the letter "P" (Paul).    
*Inside photo: McCartney wears a patch reading "O.P.D." (Officially Pronounced Dead), the British equivalent of "D.O.A."    
*The back cover of the album: McCartney is the only Beatle with his back facing frontward.



Magical Mystery Tour Album
The songs: I Am the Walrus, Strawberry Fields Forever
*I Am the Walrus: the walrus is believed to be a symbol of death in some cultures - McCartney is in a walrus suit on the front cover.
*Pg 23, inside series of pictures: McCartney has a black rose in his lapel, the other Beatles have red roses.
                        *****************************************************************
*In the song Strawberry Fields Forever: at its end a distorted voice says "I buried Paul," which can be heard plainly at 45 rpm.
*In the song I Am the Walrus: The lyrics "Goo Goo G'Joob" have been said to be the last words of Humpty Dumpty (the "eggman") before his terrible accident, and could have been Paul's as well;
And at the end of the song a voice asks, "Is he dead, father?"



Abbey Road Album
*Cover picture shows all four Beatles walking away from what may be a cemetery, a barefoot McCartney is out of step. John was dressed in white, representing a preacher. Ringo was a mourner or an undertaker because he was dressed in black. George with his denim jeans and shirt was a gravedigger. Because Paul was barefoot and not in step he was deceased.
*The yellow VW bug license plate that reads 28IF (Paul would be 28 IF he hadn't died)



The Beatles - White Album
The songs: (Looking Through a) Glass Onion, Revolution Number Nine
*Glass Onion: a glass onion is a coffin with a transparent top
*In the song Glass Onion: the line, "Well, here's another clue for you all: the walrus was Paul."
*In the song Revolution Number Nine: a backwards tape which repeats the words "Turn me on, dead man."

Are these CLUES all not sufficient EVIDENCE to support the "FACT" that Paul McCartney was killed in a car crash in November of 1966, just as the "world events" you mention are sufficient proof to support the claim that these "PROPHECIES/PREDICTIONS" are correct???  
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 07:04:26 am by duroz »
                    
How come it won't play?

duroz

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 07:08:47 am »
Just a heads up- Please either keep your bible quotes to one thread or just post them in Off Topic. You're going to end up flooding this forum and the admins will not like that.

Aaaaand...we have YET ANOTHER bible quotes thread started: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=41874.0
                    
How come it won't play?

falcon9

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Re: Second Coming
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 01:57:56 pm »
Just a heads up- Please either keep your bible quotes to one thread or just post them in Off Topic. You're going to end up flooding this forum and the admins will not like that.

Aaaaand...we have YET ANOTHER bible quotes thread started: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=41874.0

As "duroz" points out, the demonstrable fact of multiple bible-thumping threads is providing the sheer weight of evidence of religious proselytizing.  Given that extant evidence, there is zero basis for false claims/complaints of 'trolling', etc. when such numerous examples of propagandistic proselytizing is being duplicated in several concurrent threads, (because that would not only be one-sided but, hypocritical of the xtians engaging in it).
                               
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

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