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Topic: What about God  (Read 397 times)

hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2018, 02:21:29 pm »

God created the universe....Big Bang is nonsense.



I'm going to offer my opinion on this, which you make take or leave, but my belief is that God created the universe and that the 'big bang" was HIS method of creation. Science and religion do not have to be the "either or" proposition that so many people try to make it.  Likewise, creation (through evolution) is still creation by God.


It is ironic to me that the Big Bang Theory was actually first proposed by a Catholic priest and was initially rejected by science as being too spiritual.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001061

Uget..the bible has been around 1000s or yrs....translated into 1000s of languages.......shown its divinity by prediciting the future.Satan and man have tried to destroy it with NO success.

To compare Gods word with a catholic priest on who would come out on top would be like comparing Mike Tyson in his prime going against Bernie Goetz without a gun!!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 02:41:14 pm by hitch0403 »

UGetPaid

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Re: What about God
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 07:01:45 pm »


To compare Gods word with a catholic priest on who would come out on top would be like comparing Mike Tyson in his prime going against Bernie Goetz without a gun!!


I was making no such comparison.

hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 04:36:45 pm »


To compare Gods word with a catholic priest on who would come out on top would be like comparing Mike Tyson in his prime going against Bernie Goetz without a gun!!


I was making no such comparison.
My apologies if i misunderstood.I was trying to make a point the bible was best source for the answer.If i understand your interpetation maybe it looked like a big bang as God used His spirit <active force>in creation if we saw it.

JediJohnnie

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Re: What about God
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 12:37:58 pm »
I believe in God. Jesus Christ is God's son.
Yes,Jesus was first-born of ALL creation.Thats why he is referred to as a "begotten son"....directly created by His father Jehovah and used as his fathers master worker in creation.

EX:Let US make man in Gods image.Note US is plural.

Jesus was not a creation of God. He is a part of the trinity. He always existed being with the Father. As John describes it "In the beginning there was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God".

Now I know you well enough by now to know you won't accept anything the Watchtower doesn't teach (and they deny the trinity).

And I'm sure you'll point out the term 'Trinity' isn't in the Bible, but concept is.  Jesus says "I and the Father are One." Jesus accepts worship and so forth. Calling Him a "creation" is an insult to His divinity.
Jesus proved he was mortal in not only was he born.....but he also died as a man.Jehovah IS the Alpha and Omega.......never had a beginning or will have an ending.Jesus always identified his father as God.

Col 1:15...First born of all creation.Jesus again was mortal.......he died!!!And it took his father to resurrect him to live again!!

I and the father are one in the sense they have the same justice and love etc.Just as a son and father can be the same as humans.Afterall Jesus did say his father was greater then i in the sense that HE is GOD!!Never once does Jesus claim to be God.But Jehovah through-out bible does and says there were noo other gods before HIM and he IS GOD and will NOT share that.Jesus represents his father.

As i told you before with manmade judges on earth when you stand before them you stand before God...NOT the man in the sense of he represents justice and love.If his ways are NOT the same as Gods then he doesnt represent him.Everything Jesus did represented his father thats why he said they were one.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000250

You said it yourself,"trinity isnt in the bible"...and it isnt!!!Take the time to read the link.Even when bible backs up the truth many are still ignorant as was shown in Jesus day when they still questioned him and eventually killed him.

As the bible explains the truth is like a double edge sword and discerns the inclination of the heart.

And might i add...what do you think Gods "begotten son"means???Shows Jesus was DIRECTLY created by Jehovah.The rest of creation Jesus ws Gods master worker.Let US create man.

Cant be any more plainer.

“If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.

▪ “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) Jesus did not speak of himself as God but spoke of God as a separate Person.

▪ “I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.” (John 12:49) Jesus’ teachings did not come from him; they came from the Father.



Jesus was born of a woman. "Begotten son" means He took on flesh, but it doesn't mean he was divested of His deity in the Incarnation.

The Father IS greater than the Son because of his role, not because of nature.  As Jesus said "I and the Father are One." They are One "substance" as God, revealed in separate three personages. It's the mystery of the Trinity codified in scripture.

Jesus didn't need the Father to raise Him. Check out John 10:18 "No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded."

Lastly, as I'm sure I've said many times over the years, Jesus has referred to Himself as God many times in Scripture. John 10:30 "I and the Father are One" is the most obvious. The Pharisees understood the reference much clearer than the Watchtower apparently, since they wanted Him killed for blasphemy.

John 10:31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Why would they believe He claimed to be God, if He was not CLEARLY communicating that to them?

There are other passages that may help you. Since we've been talking about John, try 14:6-12. And Again, when Jesus accepts Thomas worship as God: John 20:28-29.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:41:04 pm by JediJohnnie »

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hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2018, 02:22:06 pm »
Jesus was born of a woman?True as a man,but Mary was pregnated by Jehovahs holy spirit.

As a man he told others of his existence in heaven when he said,before Abraham i already was.

Even men have had references to being god or lord.When Jesus was referred to it that way it was in representation of HIS father.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102005283

“I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. . . . I have made your name known to them and will make it known.”​—JOHN 17:6, 26.
 This means everlasting life,+ their coming to know you,* the only true God,+ and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.+

Rev 4:11 “You are worthy, Jehovah* our God, to receive the glory+ and the honor+ and the power,+ because you created all things,+ and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

At least if you insist to keep giving kudos to Jesus JJ...obey his commands by making Gods name known.I have yet to see you and many here acknowledge it.

Psalms 83:18  That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.KJV
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 04:21:50 pm by hitch0403 »

JediJohnnie

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Re: What about God
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 08:25:08 pm »
You seem to be talking around the subject, but again, the simplest course would be for you to explain why Jesus accepts worship from Thomas:

John 20:28-29  Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!

 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Thomas calls Jesus "God". Literally right there in the passage. Jesus doesn't rebuke him saying "Whoa, hold on partner! I'm only Jehovah's First Creation! I'm only a junior partner in the firm! Worship only Jehovah!"

No. He accepts Thomas worship as God.

In contrast, get a load of the angel that gives John the Revelation in chapter 22:8-9:

 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.  But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

So you see very clearly if Jesus had not been God incarnate He would not allow Himself to be worshiped by Thomas any more than the angel allowed John to worship him. The Watchtower has made a grievous error.

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hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 09:22:34 pm »
I talk around subject???You still cant say Gods name!!

Anyway if u have any interest to what u ask.....

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989240

You never got full meaning of if i would stand before i judge.I told you standing before a judge would be standing before God.....unless his ways compromised Gods truth and justice.Of course Jesus is even on a higher scale.2nd most important in the universe and as ive said for a zillion times,he represents his father in EVERY way.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 09:55:06 pm by hitch0403 »

JediJohnnie

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Re: What about God
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 10:38:50 pm »
You're employing JW legalism with the fixation on referring to God as Jehovah. He introduced Himself to Moses as "I Am". Doesn't make any difference in the discussion at hand.

So by your understanding of worship, do you believe if I come to you representing God, I'd be worthy of worship?

That is some seriously flawed reasoning. ONLY God should be worshiped.

 Not man. ( Acts 10:25-26  As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”)

Not Angel ( Revelation 22:8-9  I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.  But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”)

Only God should be worshiped. And I have given you verses straight out of scripture to support that. Jesus would NOT accept worship were He not God incarnate. He would be going against the will of God. He accepted the worship of the Apostles time & again, (Luke 24:52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. ) meaning He is equal with God the Father.

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hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 10:59:54 pm »
Equal with God,but Jesus says the father is greater then i....LOL!!

SO i guess when you say a prayer you call God "I am"...LOL!

I guess you also dont support KJV...LOL!

Check your heart condition JJ!

Instead of nit-picking Watchtower teachings,test your Babylonish BS first and tell me they are preaching as a worldwide brotherhood Gods kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.Or that over 20 million attended The Lords memorial this past 3/31.Or they teach and give freely as Jesus taught without putting you on spot to put money in a collection.

And most importantly as Jesus said...they have love among themselves and worship God with spirit and truth.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:17:48 pm by hitch0403 »

JediJohnnie

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Re: What about God
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 11:07:33 pm »
The Father is greater than Jesus by definition of role not essence.

No, I pray as Jesus taught "Our Father..."

In any translation the facts are the same.

You don't have a theological leg to stand on. Why did Jesus accept Worship? Either He was a deceiver looking for self aggrandizement or He was God incarnate. Those are your only two options.


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hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 11:20:37 pm »
The Father is greater than Jesus by definition of role not essence.

No, I pray as Jesus taught "Our Father..."

In any translation the facts are the same.

You don't have a theological leg to stand on. Why did Jesus accept Worship? Either He was a deceiver looking for self aggrandizement or He was God incarnate. Those are your only two options.


You pray the Lords prayer?

Where?You think you die and go to heavenWhy even mention let your kingdom come ON EARTH as it is in heaven?Let "I AM" be hallowed???LOL!!

hitch0403

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Re: What about God
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 11:33:33 pm »
Flawed reasoning???You stand before a flag that represents a government that sent 500000 poor souls to the slaughter for nonsense in Vietnam....plus it goes against principals of what Jesus commanded in swords and who the ruler of this world is!!

I pity your line of thinking.

Jesus didnt need the father to raise him you say??LOL!


If Jesus is God, as some churches teach, who resurrected Jesus?
Jesus is not God—whose name is Jehovah—but he is the Son of God. Jehovah resurrected Jesus from the dead. (Romans 10:9) One Bible scholar comments: “It is unthinkable that anyone—even Christ—could raise himself.” *

If Jesus could raise himself,then i guess he really wasnt dead.Unless this is some Star TreK BS instilled in your brain!!

« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 12:04:15 am by hitch0403 »

JediJohnnie

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Re: What about God
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2018, 12:08:02 am »
As has been the case countless times, we are getting nowhere because you have failed to answer the evidence presented to you.

Jesus said He was equal to the Father. The Pharisees UNDERSTOOD that He claimed to be equal to the Father to the extent they wanted Him stoned for blasphemy.

He told Phillip those seeing Him were seeing the Father.

Thomas WORSHIPED Him and He ACCEPTED the worship AS GOD

These are clear matters you are avoiding. Whether you want to claim God raised Jesus or Jesus raised Himself, it doesn't matter to Christians since the Father, Son & Holy Ghost are EQUALLY GOD. Now Jesus has submitted to the authority of The Father as The Son in OBEDIENCE as an example to us, but make no mistake, He is fully God in the incarnation. 

Google JediJohnnie and May the Force be with you!

ccandpam

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Re: What about God
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 04:01:17 am »
My Father in Heaven is my Lord and Savior. He sent his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to DIE on the Cross so that we may all be saved of our sins and go to Heaven and be with Him. You have to believe that Jesus died for you and accept Him into your Heart and repent of your sins and be saved to go to Heaven. We are not perfect, even when we are saved, so we always have to ask for forgiveness of our sins. My Father in Heaven has always been by my side. He has Blessed me so much and I am so Happy to have My Father in Heaven always by my side. :angel11:

nannycoe1

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Re: What about God
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2018, 05:13:51 am »
Yes I believe in God. I will pray for you

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