proof evolution is not true

[walksalone11]

The ideology of Jesus whether you believe or not in his Divinity is peace, love, and understanding with compassion and forgiveness towards others ... even if not Divine, a person would truly be a better person by living by these teachings.

Would you consider Pope Innocence IV a man of God? In other words, an appropriate representative of God and Jesus, or in fact Christianity as an institution?
How about the current Pope?

[liljp617]

The ideology of Jesus whether you believe or not in his Divinity is peace, love, and understanding with compassion and forgiveness towards others ... even if not Divine, a person would truly be a better person by living by these teachings.

I don't think anybody will disagree with you on this.  Unfortunately, the fact that these messages are positive doesn't add to the truth of Christianity, Jesus, or God.  These messages are not revolutionary messages either; there were many people who attempted to spread these very messages prior to the time Jesus supposedly existed and many people who try to this day.

[liljp617]

The ideology of Jesus whether you believe or not in his Divinity is peace, love, and understanding with compassion and forgiveness towards others ... even if not Divine, a person would truly be a better person by living by these teachings.

I don't think anybody will disagree with you on this.  Unfortunately, the fact that these messages are positive doesn't add to the truth of Christianity, Jesus, or God.  These messages are not revolutionary messages either; there were many people who attempted to spread these very messages prior to the time Jesus supposedly existed and many people who try to this day.

Jesus was a real person. He did live.
Wouldn't that be the same as trying to prove Cleopatra existed
Don't we just go by documents and things like writings on a wall. Wasn't the dead sea scrolls the bible itself?

There is a small amount of evidence outside of the Gospels (which are hardly evidence, as it's highly unlikely they're first hand accounts of anything) for the existence of a Jesus Christ.  There is a passing mention in Tacitus that is often regarded as second hand information passed down by biased Christian sources of the time, a highly controversial mention in Josephus which most scholars believe has been significantly altered, and a few other ambiguous, non-detailed mentions in other Greco-Roman writings.

I won't make a strong claim either way, but there is no clear case supporting either side on the historicity of the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.



Not the same at all.  There is a huge amount of extant evidence of Cleopatra.  We have the ability to cross reference tons of writings and official documents to ensure she existed.



A decent percentage of the scrolls found are considered Biblical manuscripts (of the Hebrew Bible).  I don't know what the Dead Sea Scrolls would have to do with the existence or nonexistence of a historical Jesus Christ.  They're manuscripts of the Old Testament.

[ChaseS]

Evolution assumes that man dropped out of the trees 1 to 5 million years ago and became fully human approximately one hundred thousand years ago. Yet archeological records show civilization arising only about five thousand years ago (based on evolutionary thinking). In other words, by evolutionary reasoning, it took mankind ninety-five thousand years—after becoming fully human—to figure out that food could be produced by dropping a seed into the ground!

thats just some proof theres tons of more proof just search around..........there is a CREATOR its GOD........who believes me??

lol Really? if your going to write something like that have at least SOME support backing what you say up! Everything you wrote there is wrong haha  sorry buddy but science says that bacteria was formed after he big bang, whatever.... Bacteria formed to organizems such as other bacteria and or small animals (MICROSCOPIC) ETC ETC WHATEVER GOOGLE THAT SHiiiii
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=evolution+theory&aq=4&aqi=g10&oq=Evolution&fp=b36c7832dbb01be6

[Cuppycake]

Because of this simple fact: Nothing has been proved yet.

You ask believers to prove there is a God, Prove there isn't one! Prove it was a Big Bang, Prove it Was Evolution.

PROVE IT, WILL YOU PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you prove it?

Again, you do not prove things don't exist.  That is impossible, because it's plainly illogical.  I don't know how many people have to tell you that before it sinks in.  The inability to prove something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it exists.  Again, prove there isn't a giant invisible cotton candy monster in my closet.  You can't.  Does that increase the likelihood that there is a cotton candy monster in my closet?  Not in the least bit.

I have made multiple posts pointing towards the proof and evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory and Evolution, and there are libraries full of books that cover it more in depth than I will ever go into on a forum where nobody reads posts.

Yes, you can prove things don't exist. In this case I was asking for you to prove to me that God doesn't exist by proving what does exist. Those are theories and are not proven.

It's like me saying I have a theory that there is life on Earth, that would make no sense since it is the truth.

just as a side note: the definition of theory is a near-fact that has been proven many many times.  Not to be mean or anything.  

Actually a theory is not a near-fact but a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle that is often times based on the analyzed relation to a set of already proven facts.

[walksalone11]

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.

Yeah, go ahead and post it up.

I am going to be on the road for a few days but I'll look at it as soon as I get a chance and that is just the kind of information that others need to see.

[MorbidRaccoon]

Dumbest reason to not believe in evolution. 

[liljp617]

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.

Yeah, go ahead and post it up.

I am going to be on the road for a few days but I'll look at it as soon as I get a chance and that is just the kind of information that others need to see.

"One of the most significant details is that crucifixion wasn't a typical practice at all. It was reserved for state criminals - traitors and the like, and leaders of rebellions. Now, the common reading of Christian doctrine would have us believe that Jesus was executed for being a rebel leader... but there's a lot wrong with the story in the Bible.

Where to start? How about with how he was charged? The story is that the Jewish religious leaders arrested him and charged him with... stupid charges, really... and then presented him before Pilate (or Caesar) who bent to the pressure of the Jewish religious leaders to have him executed. Excuse me?  Let me tell you what would have really happened if the Jewish religious leadership in Jerusalem had brought a man before Pilate and demanded that he execute him: Pilate would have summarily ordered the execution of every single one of the Jewish leaders if they didn't shut the hell up and get out of his damn face. Yes, that's the kind of guy Pilate was. He had little or no respect for the Jews or their religious nonsense. He stole temple relics and and sold them for extra cash, and he had crowds of Jewish protesters beaten to a pulp for complaining about it. In fact, he was so ruthless to the locals that he was eventually recalled to Rome. And this man supposedly sat back and let a bunch of Jewish religious leaders dictate policy to him? Not likely. If Pilate wanted Jesus executed so publicly - by crucifixion - Jesus would have had to have been some kind of embarrassment to Rome or Pilate's authority (pretty much the same thing, in his eyes). Pissing off the Jewish authorities doesn't count. If that was his crime, and Pilate felt like placating them and having Jesus executed, he could have just took his head off right then and there.

What next? The fact that there were supposedly spectators to the crucifixion? Not *bleep* likely. Crucifixion was a punishment reserved for leaders of rebellions. Yeah, right, let's let a crowd gather around the execution site of a rebel leader - what's the chance that they'll be rebels and try to save him, right? (Incidentally, thieves were not crucified. This is well-accepted historical fact of the Romans, so it raises questions about who his "neighbors" were.)

And then... they let his followers take the body?!?! Give me a break. People who were crucified were taken down from the cross by soldiers and thrown into a pit with other bodies - a guarded pit - and then the pit was set alight. These were Romans, man. When it came to killing people, they didn't screw around. There is no way he could have survived the crucifixion.

The whole affair as described in the gospels is carefully crafted to throw blame on the Jews while making it (barely) historically acceptable and satisfying the necessary prophesies. It's so blatantly an invention for the sake of being a good yarn that there is no way to believe it is a reasonable approximation of something that actually happened. If Jesus existed, he most likely wasn't crucified (in order to earn that honor, he would have had to have led an armed revolt against the Roman leadership)."

[liljp617]

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.

Yeah, go ahead and post it up.

I am going to be on the road for a few days but I'll look at it as soon as I get a chance and that is just the kind of information that others need to see.

Hmmm...That's funny, Thought that was how they killed people back then, nailing to a cross, thought they already found evidence
It wasn't only Jesus that got nailed to a cross, when they sentenced people to death, they nailed them to the cross, like how we use the electric chair or lethal injection. Some countries hang people, like Jamaica

Common misconception.  Crucifixions were not in common use by the Romans.  They were reserved for very specific, rare, extreme situations.  The parallel between crucifixion and lethal injection isn't a bad one -- lethal injection isn't used on every condemned criminal, it is a relatively rare punishment for the absolute worst.  The situation is similar for crucifixions (at least from a Roman perspective).

[Jerry1216]

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.

Yeah, go ahead and post it up.

I am going to be on the road for a few days but I'll look at it as soon as I get a chance and that is just the kind of information that others need to see.

"One of the most significant details is that crucifixion wasn't a typical practice at all. It was reserved for state criminals - traitors and the like, and leaders of rebellions. Now, the common reading of Christian doctrine would have us believe that Jesus was executed for being a rebel leader... but there's a lot wrong with the story in the Bible.

Where to start? How about with how he was charged? The story is that the Jewish religious leaders arrested him and charged him with... stupid charges, really... and then presented him before Pilate (or Caesar) who bent to the pressure of the Jewish religious leaders to have him executed. Excuse me?  Let me tell you what would have really happened if the Jewish religious leadership in Jerusalem had brought a man before Pilate and demanded that he execute him: Pilate would have summarily ordered the execution of every single one of the Jewish leaders if they didn't shut the hell up and get out of his damn face. Yes, that's the kind of guy Pilate was. He had little or no respect for the Jews or their religious nonsense. He stole temple relics and and sold them for extra cash, and he had crowds of Jewish protesters beaten to a pulp for complaining about it. In fact, he was so ruthless to the locals that he was eventually recalled to Rome. And this man supposedly sat back and let a bunch of Jewish religious leaders dictate policy to him? Not likely. If Pilate wanted Jesus executed so publicly - by crucifixion - Jesus would have had to have been some kind of embarrassment to Rome or Pilate's authority (pretty much the same thing, in his eyes). Pissing off the Jewish authorities doesn't count. If that was his crime, and Pilate felt like placating them and having Jesus executed, he could have just took his head off right then and there.

What next? The fact that there were supposedly spectators to the crucifixion? Not *bleep* likely. Crucifixion was a punishment reserved for leaders of rebellions. Yeah, right, let's let a crowd gather around the execution site of a rebel leader - what's the chance that they'll be rebels and try to save him, right? (Incidentally, thieves were not crucified. This is well-accepted historical fact of the Romans, so it raises questions about who his "neighbors" were.)

And then... they let his followers take the body?!?! Give me a break. People who were crucified were taken down from the cross by soldiers and thrown into a pit with other bodies - a guarded pit - and then the pit was set alight. These were Romans, man. When it came to killing people, they didn't screw around. There is no way he could have survived the crucifixion.

The whole affair as described in the gospels is carefully crafted to throw blame on the Jews while making it (barely) historically acceptable and satisfying the necessary prophesies. It's so blatantly an invention for the sake of being a good yarn that there is no way to believe it is a reasonable approximation of something that actually happened. If Jesus existed, he most likely wasn't crucified (in order to earn that honor, he would have had to have led an armed revolt against the Roman leadership)."

You are one of the most ignorant lying fools who have probably ever lived and it is only because you are an ANTICHRIST and want to lead others in deception but have no sense because your BRAINWASHED. FIRST OF ALL you just made one of the most ignorant claims I have ever heard from somone trying to "disprove" the crucifiction you said that it was and I quote "*bleep* unlikely" that there would be spectators? Uhhh they have videos of Suddam Huessain's hanging online and crowds flocked to see Timothy Mickvay get the chair I mean ever since there were hangings in western times there was ALWAYS a crowd. Even back than so moving on past that ignorant hogwash remark. (by the way how many times have you lusted today or had hatrid in your heart? Or were angry with someone? All those times you were comitting adultry and murder in your heart! So Sinner (also you committing the greatest sin continually not loving the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your strength) so your just promoting your sin) Your foolish man you continually make ignorant claims. Jesus's ministry reached out to the people and it was an angering to the Romans authority because he was (and is) the King and the romans and The jews were ran by the Roman government see they were taken over by the romans and all of their dealings were with the romans. Jesus was tried and killed in Jeruselam this was God's will he had it set forth it doesn't matter if the romans and the jews denied him the crucifiction the people wanted he was to be a propitiation for our sins and as the high priest prior had a revelation one man must die or a whole nation shall perish! Also he was fulfilling hundreds of prophecies these things were set in place by God and no man could change them especially since their wicked hearts were turned against God and they were blinded to what they were doing. IN the book of Genesis a great question was asked by Abrahams son where is the lamb for the slaughter and Abraham said God will provide HIMSELF a lamb for the slaughter. Then John the baptist is screaming BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD! 2500 Biblical Prophecies and 2000 prophecies fulfilled yo ucan say what you want friend but every man has a mouth but its going to be shut in the glory of God and weither you confess him now or deny him now and have your place in the lake of fire which people your friendly scientists have discovered (these were athiests people!) http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
You will confess the he is Lord one day EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord and one day every knee will bow! Your foolish man you really are foolish because you make a ton of assumptions about something (apart from bibilcal evidence) we do not have too much proof on. Yet you speak as if you were there as Jesuse spoke of heaven and he is there should we believe you were really there or just realize your ignorant and full of garble? I think the 2nd is the proper pronunciation say what you will man but your just throwing out a bunch of hogwash and if we are TRULY saved we know God is here and he is here in our hearts purifying us and transforming us changing us by the renewing of the mind and we have his spirit indwelling within our core within our soul and we experiance his power throughout our lives. You reject him because you know he is there but he is holy and you will not bow to his holiness and are a child of wrath and God's wrath is upon you and in Romans Chapter 1 you are directly spoken of friend read it and you will see! Open up your eyes to true wisdom read the bible and gain understanding. Yet spiritual discernment is the only true way to understand everything in the bible it is given by the Holy Ghost to those who believe and is our greatest assurance and you will never get it dejecting Christ! you are of your father the devil just as Jesus told the pharisees so do I tell you because you are a liar and as your father the devil is a father of lies so are you! You speak not the truth but spend every ounce of energy cursing the God who has given his life for you and persecuting his children. If God is not real you have no time to waste disputing him if he is and your on the other side you have every reason to because you are converting children of satan and spreading confusion. You hate Christian and religious people in general because their lifestyles conflict with yours well this is your life if your so in control of it how come your so messed up? How come you got so much unhappiness and how come you spend most of your time trying to take down and destroy what you don't understand? Because you are surely decieved by your deceitfully wicked heart as the bible says!

[Jerry1216]

Barry Shlutz is a LIAR!

[Falconer02]

You are one of the most ignorant lying fools who have probably ever lived and it is only because you are an ANTICHRIST and want to lead others in deception but have no sense because your BRAINWASHED.

You contest one of the most calm, intelligent, and informed people on the forums with your horribly misspelled religious nonsense? I really hope you're just a troll. If not, you're a terrible person and, as I stated earlier, make religion look like hell itself. How do I know this? BECUZ DA SCIENTISTS DESCOVERD HELL IN THE KORR OF DA ERTH AND SINSS DA DEVOL IZ MY DAD EYEV BEEN THARE! Hypocritical does not even begin to describe you, Mr. Christian.

you are of your father the devil just as Jesus told the pharisees so do I tell you because you are a liar and as your father the devil is a father of lies so are you!

scum⋅bag [skuhm-bag]
–noun Slang: Vulgar
 -a mean, despicable person: Jerry1216

[eSineM]

HELLO! The Crucifix is a Star formation around the Sun...The Egyptians came up with that theory...matter of a FACT the entire Bible is based off Egyptian Mythology...don't believe me..?...I can post proof for ya!

The Egyptians had a God with the exact similarities as Jesus...

[Falconer02]

your irritating the Hell outta me

Oh really? We're irritating you? Here's a quote from you a few pages ago--

I am Agnostic - I don't know and it is impossible to tell.

Here's one from your previous post--

That's fine, who cares, don't care about their impending doom and let them burn.

I just don't like all the hatred towards God and the cursing him and of sacred things.

We're not being hateful. We're questioning things (in a casual way). Again, if you don't want to deal with us, stop posting in these threads. Simple solution.

[liljp617]

I will make a strong claim on the events surrounding the crucifixion.  They didn't happen.  I'm not sure you'll read the support for this, so I'll wait until you or someone else asks before I bother with it.

Yeah, go ahead and post it up.

I am going to be on the road for a few days but I'll look at it as soon as I get a chance and that is just the kind of information that others need to see.

Hmmm...That's funny, Thought that was how they killed people back then, nailing to a cross, thought they already found evidence
It wasn't only Jesus that got nailed to a cross, when they sentenced people to death, they nailed them to the cross, like how we use the electric chair or lethal injection. Some countries hang people, like Jamaica

Common misconception.  Crucifixions were not in common use by the Romans.  They were reserved for very specific, rare, extreme situations.  The parallel between crucifixion and lethal injection isn't a bad one -- lethal injection isn't used on every condemned criminal, it is a relatively rare punishment for the absolute worst.  The situation is similar for crucifixions (at least from a Roman perspective).

OMG, you don't read what I write. I said it is used on those that are sentenced to death, Not every criminal

So you're saying it was used on those that were sentenced to crucifixion.  Good point I guess (I think it goes unsaid).  All I'm saying is it was a rare punishment relatively speaking, reserved for specific types of criminals.