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totosli_08

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Proof that God exists
« on: November 29, 2009, 08:35:36 pm »
there is many talks about god in here..and of course im a firm belive of the father , son and the holy ghost ....even thow i know i dont have to proof this to anybody because god can only do it for you himself ....im just doing this because people keep sayingthere is no sintific eveindece that god exists .....and they always post proof of evolution soo... let me start with my evidence ..this is long.. so if you feel like sitting here.. reading this go head...i strongly reccomend you do ..ive been telling people that i did resererch in school on this but i never got around to hit so heres my  evidence ..or my research whatever ..you want to call it ..and so im going to shareit with you




Proof


 main point : Nothing can only create Nothing before the universe begain somthing must have always existed

  1.  the first law of thermodynamics:Energy is eternal it confirms that energy cannot be  created or destroyed  no begging or uncreated or no end  thats what eternal means  ... you cant  claim that this energy existed  ni a known universe because  scientist have proven that the universe didint always exist  and this energy source that was presence before the universe begain  had to have power beyond anything  we can begain to imagine considering it had to tranfer its energy to billions of stars and galaxies  , a seperate  eternal  energy source that exists outside of the universe had to have supplied or tranfered its energy onto the universe because again the universe did not exist  proven again by scentist themselfs  it is not unreasonable to assume this anormus energy was god  we resonably have two options  to determine this energy , it could dumb , uncontious and vague energy source
witch is illagitamite seeing as thow  we can observe  complexity order and desghn through out the universe  the most logical ansewer is thatgod created the universe  if you dont agree...then your just being unresonable about the possiblity of god



 2. here is an actuell scientist  who was an athiest that sought out to see if god exists and he found that he does



ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.

As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan.

I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers.

I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?" "Why am I here?" "Why does mathematics work, anyway?" "If the universe had a beginning, who created it?" "Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?" "Why do humans have a moral sense?" "What happens after we die?" (Watch Francis Collins discuss how he came to believe in God )

I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative."

But reason alone cannot prove the existence of God. Faith is reason plus revelation, and the revelation part requires one to think with the spirit as well as with the mind. You have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page. Ultimately, a leap of faith is required.

For me, that leap came in my 27th year, after a search to learn more about God's character led me to the person of Jesus Christ. Here was a person with remarkably strong historical evidence of his life, who made astounding statements about loving your neighbor, and whose claims about being God's son seemed to demand a decision about whether he was deluded or the real thing. After resisting for nearly two years, I found it impossible to go on living in such a state of uncertainty, and I became a follower of Jesus.

So, some have asked, doesn't your brain explode? Can you both pursue an understanding of how life works using the tools of genetics and molecular biology, and worship a creator God? Aren't evolution and faith in God incompatible? Can a scientist believe in miracles like the resurrection?

Actually, I find no conflict here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers. Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.

But why couldn't this be God's plan for creation? True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be. So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer.

I have found there is a wonderful harmony in the complementary truths of science and faith. The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome. God can be found in the cathedral or in the laboratory. By investigating God's majestic and awesome creation, science can actually be a means of worship.


 AMIT GOSWAMI
3. Before you read any further, stop and close your eyes for a moment. Now consider the following question: for the moment your eyes were closed, did the world still exist even though you weren't conscious of it? How do you know? If this sounds like the kind of unanswerable brain teaser your Philosophy 101 professor used to employ to stretch your philosophical imagination, you might be surprised to discover that there are actually physicists at reputable universities who believe they have answered this question—and their answer, believe it or not, is no.

Now consider something even more intriguing. Imagine for a moment the entire history of the universe. According to all the data scientists have been able to gather, it exploded into existence some fifteen billion years ago, setting the stage for a cosmic dance of energy and light that continues to this day. Now imagine the history of planet Earth. An amorphous cloud of dust emerging out of that primordial fireball, it slowly coalesced into a solid orb, found its way into gravitational orbit around the sun, and through a complex interaction of light and gases over billions of years, generated an atmosphere and a biosphere capable of not only giving birth to, but sustaining and proliferating, life.

Now imagine that none of the above ever happened. Consider instead the possibility that the entire story only existed as an abstract potential—a cosmic dream among countless other cosmic dreams—until, in that dream, life somehow evolved to the point that a conscious, sentient being came into existence. At that moment, solely because of the conscious observation of that individual, the entire universe, including all of the history leading up to that point, suddenly came into being. Until that moment, nothing had actually ever happened. In that moment, fifteen billion years happened. If this sounds like nothing more than a complicated backdrop for a science fiction story or a secular version of one of the world's great creation myths, hold on to your hat. According to physicist Amit Goswami, the above description is a scientifically viable explanation of how the universe came into being.

(will continue on next page ..cuz it excedds the maximumm linth)

liljp617

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 09:54:54 pm »
main point : Nothing can only create Nothing before the universe begain somthing must have always existed

Solves nothing in the equation.  What created the entity that "always existed?"  What created the entity that created that entity?  How could your entity have originated from nothing?  Why doesn't your entity need a creator -- because you say so?

Placing a random infinity into an equation and getting an answer in no way solves the equation.  I can prove 1=2 if I use an abstract infinity, but 1 clearly does not equal 2.

On another note, there was no "before the universe."  Time began at the moment of origin.  You cannot have a "before time."

Quote
here is an actuell scientist  who was an athiest that sought out to see if god exists and he found that he does

Francis Collins is a very smart man.

Nothing in the article you posted proved anything.  Everything he said was nothing more than a religious belief based on faith.

On a random note, his idea that the premise of atheism is purely "there is absolutely no god" is as wrong as anything can be.  The overwhelming majority of atheists do not hold an absolute stance of that nature.  The overwhelming majority are fully content with saying "I don't know, but I personally lack belief."  Lacking belief is in no way similar to saying "there is no god" or believing there is no god.  They're extremely different stances on the question.

Quote
AMIT GOSWAMI
3. Before you read any further, stop and close your eyes for a moment. Now consider the following question: for the moment your eyes were closed, did the world still exist even though you weren't conscious of it? How do you know? If this sounds like the kind of unanswerable brain teaser your Philosophy 101 professor used to employ to stretch your philosophical imagination, you might be surprised to discover that there are actually physicists at reputable universities who believe they have answered this question—and their answer, believe it or not, is no.

Now consider something even more intriguing. Imagine for a moment the entire history of the universe. According to all the data scientists have been able to gather, it exploded into existence some fifteen billion years ago, setting the stage for a cosmic dance of energy and light that continues to this day. Now imagine the history of planet Earth. An amorphous cloud of dust emerging out of that primordial fireball, it slowly coalesced into a solid orb, found its way into gravitational orbit around the sun, and through a complex interaction of light and gases over billions of years, generated an atmosphere and a biosphere capable of not only giving birth to, but sustaining and proliferating, life.

Now imagine that none of the above ever happened. Consider instead the possibility that the entire story only existed as an abstract potential—a cosmic dream among countless other cosmic dreams—until, in that dream, life somehow evolved to the point that a conscious, sentient being came into existence. At that moment, solely because of the conscious observation of that individual, the entire universe, including all of the history leading up to that point, suddenly came into being. Until that moment, nothing had actually ever happened. In that moment, fifteen billion years happened. If this sounds like nothing more than a complicated backdrop for a science fiction story or a secular version of one of the world's great creation myths, hold on to your hat. According to physicist Amit Goswami, the above description is a scientifically viable explanation of how the universe came into being.

The good ole Watchmaker Analogy.  People still use this as evidence of a god(s)?  Quite disheartening.  Would have thought somebody would come up with something a tad bit better than this by now.

Google criticisms of the watchmaker analogy.  It's logical foundation is quite lacking to say the least.

totosli_08

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 09:58:42 pm »
ok

liljp617

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 10:16:00 am »
Turn the tables folks...........think about it.........try to prove God DOESN'T exist-that is FAR more difficult than proving He doesn't, for good reason! :)


Prove the giant cotton candy monster living in my closet doesn't exist.  You can't, that must mean he's really there!


You don't prove things don't exist.  It's logically impossible with the exception of a tautology or within a vacuum, and reality places us within neither of those.

The burden of proof does not lie in the hands of those who do not believe your extraordinary claims.  The burden of proof lies in the hands of those who make the claims.

totosli_08

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2009, 11:03:40 am »
 mabe the gient cotton candy monster does exist you never know

jaba187

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 12:24:23 am »
Turn the tables folks...........think about it.........try to prove God DOESN'T exist-that is FAR more difficult than proving He doesn't, for good reason! :)

That is easy, the process of Evolution, every human alive today is from the great work of evolution. All you have to do to find proof on this is watch the History Channel!

InKane

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 12:53:41 am »
Quote
You don't prove things don't exist.  It's logically impossible with the exception of a tautology or within a vacuum, and reality places us within neither of those.

The burden of proof does not lie in the hands of those who do not believe your extraordinary claims.  The burden of proof lies in the hands of those who make the claims.

My thoughts exactly! :thumbsup:

liljp617

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2009, 10:35:31 am »
Turn the tables folks...........think about it.........try to prove God DOESN'T exist-that is FAR more difficult than proving He doesn't, for good reason! :)

That is easy, the process of Evolution, every human alive today is from the great work of evolution. All you have to do to find proof on this is watch the History Channel!

Evolution does not disprove the existence of a supernatural being.  Evolution makes zero claims about the origin of life or the origin of the universe.  Evolution makes zero claims about the existence of god(s).  To say the theory of evolution is prime evidence of there being no theistic god(s) is to misrepresent the theory.

bschumacher

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2009, 10:46:27 am »
I have no doubt that a power greater than myself exists. That's it. Anyone who claims to know exactly what form that power takes is just making stuff up.

acurtsinger2

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2009, 10:49:42 am »
 :angel11:

GoGoKokiGo

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AmyTrivitt

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 09:58:57 pm »
Honestly people, how many posts are you guys going to do about GOD, which GOD are you referring too?? Furthermore you will not get anywhere cramming this stuff down peoples throats on a forum. Live and let live. Or go to church and preach to those whom actually want to hear it.

frosty11x

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 07:59:38 am »
Honestly people, how many posts are you guys going to do about GOD, which GOD are you referring too?? Furthermore you will not get anywhere cramming this stuff down peoples throats on a forum. Live and let live. Or go to church and preach to those whom actually want to hear it.


First of all, there is only one God, there are many false gods though. God created the heavens and the earth and everything that is and has been. It would be pointless to say this in church because they all believe it anyways. We are trying to get the message out there to save everyone from their sins before it is too late, I guess if we can't get you to come to touch with reality, then that is your choice. Once you die, and figure out that we were right, it will be too late and you will go into Hell FOREVER. We are trying to save you from that eternal suffering.


Secondly, false gods are a distraction from the truth, put into the world by Satan himself. Satan wants your soul to burn with him in Hell and he is trying to get as many souls to suffer with him as possible all because he wanted to be above God in the beginning.

Finally, God has always existed, was never created, does not have an age, He has always been. He created the earth and people and all of it so that He would not be lonely. He wanted someone to talk with, someone to walk with, someone to adore him. God LOVES you. No matter what you've done, no matter what you will do. He loves you. He sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God wants you to come to heaven to be with him, but you can not go to heaven unless you believe in him and accept him as your personal savior and let him come into your heart.



We can not make the decision for you, to save you from your sins and from Hell, but all we can do is get the info out there to you, the truth, and whether or not you accept it, is not our fault but your own. If you do not accept God then you WILL go to Hell when you die, there is no avoiding it. If you don't believe us now, after you die you will find out that we were right, and you will have wished you could go back and make him Lord over your life, you will want everyone to know that HE DOES EXIST, but you will not be able to tell anyone or let anyone know, you will be in ETERNAL SUFFERING, and we can not do anything about it. It is futile to argue with you guys about this because you have made up your mind and we have made up ours, and there will be no way to persuade either person to a different side. Have a happy life and I pray that God will show himself to you before it is too late.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 08:15:19 am by frosty11x »

MistyM3

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 10:34:02 am »
If you believe in God then you do not question anything... you don't have to explain anything to anyone. I don't need proof to know he exists. If you spend your life questioning everything then you'll be more confused about your life when you should just be living. God wants us to live our life and show that we can gain knowledge and experience before we go to heaven. We have to see the bad before the good so we can appreciate it more!!!!! That's the reason we were put on earth so that we will appreciate Heaven more. Thanks for reading.

MorbidRaccoon

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Re: Proof that God exists
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2009, 10:37:25 am »
If you believe in God then you do not question anything... you don't have to explain anything to anyone. I don't need proof to know he exists. If you spend your life questioning everything then you'll be more confused about your life when you should just be living. God wants us to live our life and show that we can gain knowledge and experience before we go to heaven. We have to see the bad before the good so we can appreciate it more!!!!! That's the reason we were put on earth so that we will appreciate Heaven more. Thanks for reading.

-cough- LAME

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