My answer to your response are in the order you said them. responses 1-7 are here this is a response to ANNELA
just in case someone was wondering who I was talking to or if someone continues the conversation that's NOT ANNELA they'll know who I was talking to.
1. For one thing, we are not talking about who is going to rule the earth. We are not talking about the proof of trinity over one God either. However, I addressed this in another thread myself. Either stay on topic, or you can debate this by yourself. I've conversed with JW's before, and you all like to confuse the topic with throwing out a bunch of scriptures that don't even pertain to the topic. It does not lend credence to your side of debate, it only confuses the issue, which I believe you do deliberately.
The ones that rule the earth are the ones that go to heaven(they co-rule with christ), you the one who posted the trin proof text not me, I just posted a link about most of them , I think the problem is your continuing a conversation I had with Amy so it's naturally a little crazy and at times off-topic, the God being a man was an example to Amy to show her if the bible says something and I quote what it says i'm not judging the bible is. Admittedly staying on topic is a serious fault with me, it's not an issue about using the bible correctly or even the JW's themselves i've always been like that even if i'm not talking about the bible, I can just be in a normal conversation and still be off-topic. Also i'm not trying to confuse or go off-topic believe it or not, maybe I should explainn why I choose the scriptures in my post instead of just letting the reader figure it out for themselves?
I'm working on it
2. I wrote down clear and concise scriptures on the 144,000. You either believe it or not. I gave proof (in scripture) of the 12 tribes of Israel (are Jews and nobody else), and the 12,000 are taken from each tribe, to total 144,000. I also pinpointed the redeemed, who is the multitude without number. ALL
is in the 7th Chapter of Revelation.
Actually you wrote down one set of scriptures on the 144K and then you wrote about the ones with no number. There are scriptures about the 144K and theres scriptures about the great crowd of multitude who is on earth(they don't rule with Christ or sing the new song.) I gave you clear scripture showing that they can't all be literal Jews but instead spiritual Jews that's why I showed you Revelation 5:9-10 and then I explained how they can't all be literal which i'll post again shortly. My point is if all good people are in heaven(that is after God chooses who is good or not) then the 144K and Jesus have no one to rule over on earth. I have no issues with Revelation 7 and I do believe it all, is the standing before God mean they are in heaven? Tell me if you think that or not and i'll explain my interpretation of that. Anyway here's my quote and response, now that you know why I choose the verse which IS talking about the 144K(or at least I hope you know
9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
To show you that the 144K are from all of mankind and not just Hebrews/Israelites, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but no one has been proven by science to be apart of the line of Jesus(that is Hebrew/Israelite) which is the same as being a fleshly Jew(literal Jew) but you can be a spirituality Jewish even though someone is a gentile as I already pointed out in my previous post. Hebrews/Israelites are one people, their not part of the native american tribes, they don't speak Icelandic though it might have been possible during pentecost :-, Hebrews/Israelites are not hawaiian and they didn't have a nation God didn't approve of(unless they sinned), I can go on and on but I think you get the point. This also corresponds to Revelation 14 because only the 144K are mentioned to be singing a new song and they are also the only ones mentioned to rule as kings over the earth.
3. Your scripture you threw out there In Matthew 22:28-30, is NOT in harmony at all with what we are discussing (your words above)
It is about a woman marrying and her husbands dying, and who's wife shall she be in the resurrection.....on and on. Clearly not what we are talking about!!!!
Your right i'm srry I that I cited it wrong the scripture below talks about those co-ruling with Christ yes Jehovah(the father) and Jesus are NOT the only ones sitting on thrones during the 1,000 year reign, it also uses the 12 tribes of Israel in a figurative sense, possibly Israel in a spiritual sense and not literal sense.
The scripture is Matthew 19:28-29(I quadruple checked this time) and it says 28 Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.
4. What in the world does Psalms 37:29 have to do with what we are talking about? Yes, it says that the righteous shall inherit the land and dwell therein forever. So
Those are the ones who are going to be on Earth and not on heaven those are the multitude who will NOT rule the Earth(co-rule with Christ in heaven, the ones in heaven are to be kings with Christ)
5. In Genesis Chapter 49, it tells of the twelve tribe of Israel.
All Hebrew Children..........Revelation Chapter 7: 4-8
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
All the tribes are mentioned in this Chapter of being sealed. Twelve thousand from each tribe.
Take another look at the tribe listings they're different. Possibly to show the same order but not literally the same tribes?
6. Another scripture you quoted: In Rev 14:1-5 Yes, they are from the earth, and they are the firstfruits, they have not defiled themselves with women, which lends to them being male, virgins point to them being young. Maybe even the unborn, or children. Doesn't remove the fact that they are still Jews.
They are not just from Earth they are bought from earth and they co-rule with Christ(Kings of the earth or Lords of the earth), i'm saying they co-rule with your God the SON in heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7. What makes you think that the 144,000, and the righteous are the only ones on earth during the 1,000 year reign or years of peace where the Lion lays down with the lamb, etc. etc? This is the time when satan is bound for 1,000 years, and life continues on earth in peace. Jesus, and his redeemed will rule and reign with him. There are still people left on the earth. The earth doesn't get destroyed until after the devil has been loosed and there is the war to end all wars. Then there is a new Heaven and new Earth.
I've been trying to show you this whole time that heaven is exclusive to the 144K only and you think I was trying to say that they are on EARTH??!!! Man my communication is terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm interested in knowing why you think the great crowd rules with Christ before and after the 1,000 years? Also who are the people still on earth if they're not the great crowd or redeemed as you say? Also why do you think the earth will be destroyed is it because of 2 Peter 3:7-10? If so did the Earth and Heaven in Noah's day get destroyed(2 Peter 3:5-6)? Moreover what would fire do to stars and elements in space that are already intensely hot?
I tried to stay on topic and I explained even more why I used the scriptures I used, if i'm still off-topic to you then I don't know what else I can do I tried, if it was because of me mis-citing a scripture then i'm sorry.