Can you really be born evil?

[JediJohnnie]

Not everyone deserves to be rewarded. The bible speaks clearly of the punishments of Hell. Jesus Christ Himself referred to Hell in His teachings as often as Heaven.

The God i worship is the God of the bible and it clearly says HE is a God of Love.Jehovah is his name.

Satan is also referred to as a god.......he even made it look like in book of Job Jehovah caused his calamity.

So God- being a God of love- makes Him helpless against punishing those who do evil?

I suppose if a murder was in front of a judge, you'd think it was alright for him to say "I can't mete out justice towards this person, otherwise it makes me like Satan?"

[JediJohnnie]

I have to say if there ever was a test to determine if a child was born evil and had the option to abort the fetus, I am going to go with no because I always lean on the side of hope.  To me good and evil (being Jewish both come from G-d) has always been a moral issue and honestly that would be hard to determine by a test.  I mean if you think of all the senseless killings, I think they come down to good people having a moment of uncontrollable anger or sorrow.  A certain twenty year veteran cop never written up or anything goes to the movies and shoots a kid dead because he was pissed the kid was texting during the movie previews.  A guy breaks up with his girlfriend and takes his father's gun then goes to the school shoots it up, then kills his girlfriend then himself.  Just two real life circumstances that would prove the test defaulty from the start, if the goal is to eliminate murderers.  The true answer to this question is to watch Minority Report with Tom Cruise (or a few episodes of that short TV show).  I mean I don't even think serial killers who may start off as early as their teen years are flat out evil.  I don't think anyone really is born evil at the get go.  I think environment, circumstances, beliefs, influences all factor into a person being evil or rather do evil things but pure evil? As in 'a spawn of Satan'? Honestly, I think that is pure Hollywood.  Yes, there are people out there who are brutally evil that can be labeled this, but if you go back to their history it generally is a series of events that lead up too the actual 'going evil' and if any of those events had been altered, the person would not have turned out the way the did.  To not even give them the opportunity to change what the test claims is their nature to me is just wrong.     

I am curious as to why you always blot out GOD when you mention His name?

It is not wrong to defend yourself even if you have to defend yourself up to taking another person's life. You cannot tell me if some thug forces entry in to your home and is raping your young daughter you would stand there and let it happen.  You would do whatever you had to in order to stop the actions.

Not sure if this part was directed at me, but on the chance that it was, you are 100% correct and I am in full agreement. Self defense or the defense of another from imminent bodily harm is absolutely legitimate in taking the life of another person.  I didn't spell it out completely, but that was what I meant when I said: "(absent a justifiable defense - such as self defense or to prevent serious bodily harm to another)".


If I encountered a man hurting my wife or child in a violent way, I would do anything (including killing him) to protect my wife or child - with the goal/intention = to stop the harm.  But to kill that man "after the fact" when the violent act is no longer being committed (as much as I might want to do that) is wrong.


Vengeance or retribution killing (including capital punishment) is murder in my opinion.  But like you said, we are getting pretty far away from the original post.

It was just a comment. I was just saying I don't think a person will go to Hell for defending their life even if it means you have to end another life. I don't think you are suppose to just lay back and let a man come in to your house and r-a-p-e you and beat you and kill you if you have the means to stop it.

And it is hard to say on the last part.  Yes I agree after the threat is gone it is probably not right to kill them.  BUT if somebody hurt your daughter or wife and then killed them you may very well if you got the opportunity later seek revenge.  That is the nature of people. I still do not believe you would go to hell if you had been saved. But that gets in to a complete new argument for this crowd. lol

I think Jesus advocated self defence in Luke 22:36, where he told the Disciples to buy swords for self protection.

[JediJohnnie]

I dont expect everyone to understand this...if 1 does it was worth putting up.

Once a person is saved, is he always saved?

Jude 5, RS: “I desire to remind you, though you were once for all fully informed, that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” (Italics added.)

Matt. 24:13, RS: “He who endures to the end will be saved.” (So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.)

Phil. 2:12, RS: “As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (This was addressed to “the saints,” or holy ones, at Philippi, as stated in Philippians 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.)

Once you believe in Christ (the REAL Christ of the bible, of course) you pass from Death to Life. No one can *steal* you from God's Hand.

Of course, some have only "said faith" not real faith and they are the ones who fall away under various conditions. As Christ explained in the parable of the seed in Mark 4.

[JediJohnnie]

I guess the word S n a t c h is forbidden so I used *Steal*. FC has a real wack censor. 

[countrygirl12]

I dont expect everyone to understand this...if 1 does it was worth putting up.

Once a person is saved, is he always saved?

Jude 5, RS: “I desire to remind you, though you were once for all fully informed, that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” (Italics added.)

Matt. 24:13, RS: “He who endures to the end will be saved.” (So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.)

Phil. 2:12, RS: “As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (This was addressed to “the saints,” or holy ones, at Philippi, as stated in Philippians 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.)

Once you believe in Christ (the REAL Christ of the bible, of course) you pass from Death to Life. No one can *steal* you from God's Hand.

Of course, some have only "said faith" not real faith and they are the ones who fall away under various conditions. As Christ explained in the parable of the seed in Mark 4.

God says once you are saved no one can pluck you from His Hand.  It isn't just saying "faith". I know a woman who believes if you just say the word "God" you are okay no matter what.

You have to pray and ask Christ to come in to your heart.

And even after a person is saved they will do things that are wrong. NO way around that and people who say they do not sin are liars.

And yeah the censor on some of the words is foolish.  Bad words can make it thru and innocent words that people make bad are flagged. lol.

[hitch0403]

Not everyone deserves to be rewarded. The bible speaks clearly of the punishments of Hell. Jesus Christ Himself referred to Hell in His teachings as often as Heaven.

The God i worship is the God of the bible and it clearly says HE is a God of Love.Jehovah is his name.

Satan is also referred to as a god.......he even made it look like in book of Job Jehovah caused his calamity.

So God- being a God of love- makes Him helpless against punishing those who do evil?

I suppose if a murder was in front of a judge, you'd think it was alright for him to say "I can't mete out justice towards this person, otherwise it makes me like Satan?"

2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Even his patience runs out.Sodom was destroyed wasnt it?He brought the flood to a wicked world didnt he?

Q

[hitch0403]

When Jesus told his followers to carry swords on the night before he died, this was not so that they could protect themselves. (Luke 22:36, 38) Rather, Jesus wanted to teach them a lesson: His followers should not use violence, even when they have to face a crowd that has weapons. (Luke 22:52) After Peter used his sword to attack the high priest’s slave, Jesus commanded Peter: “Return your sword to its place.” Then Jesus stated a principle that guides Christians even today: “All those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.”​—Matthew 26:51, 52.

[hitch0403]

Re hell.....Why isnt Satan in a fiery hell and his angels that followed him?

Through-out the bilbe we see he is NOT only on earth but he is in heaven...until in 1914 he gets removed as Book of Revelation tells us with his horde and confined to earth and the woe begins starting with first WW!

Bible even speaks of Jesus being in hell.hades.sheol.Those meaning common grave for mankind.

A  good tree produces fine fruit.A rotten tree produces rotten fruit.Its the same way with many teachings in this world.Those with the right heart condition towards Jehovah will recognize them.Satan has blinded the minds of the un-believers.

[hitch0403]

I dont expect everyone to understand this...if 1 does it was worth putting up.

Once a person is saved, is he always saved?

Jude 5, RS: “I desire to remind you, though you were once for all fully informed, that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” (Italics added.)

Matt. 24:13, RS: “He who endures to the end will be saved.” (So a person’s final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus.)

Phil. 2:12, RS: “As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (This was addressed to “the saints,” or holy ones, at Philippi, as stated in Philippians 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.)

Once you believe in Christ (the REAL Christ of the bible, of course) you pass from Death to Life. No one can *steal* you from God's Hand.

Of course, some have only "said faith" not real faith and they are the ones who fall away under various conditions. As Christ explained in the parable of the seed in Mark 4.

“Faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.”​—JAMES 2:17.

You and many others support a world with Satan as its god.The bible is clear on that and the conditions here back it up.And then you and others that are blinded say you are saved?

James 4:4 New International Version
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Jesus said most important commandment was to love God.How does 1 say they love someone if they cant even say THEIR name?There is only 1 other FC member here that i am convinced that knows what Gods name is.

[fillfran82]

Hello!

I was thinking about this discussion while I was watching a documentary. The documentary was about Diane Downs daughter who was in her belly while she was on trial. It showed that she was a great mother to her son and nothing like her mother Diane. What it all comes down to is we all have choices we all decide whether to be evil or not.

[tantricia44]

I feel that people are born with a clean slate & behavior is mostly learned. I heard on NPR about a behaviorist who as a joke took a brain scan to see if he had any psychotic imagery. Results was he did have them. He couldn't understand why he didn't turn into serial killer or someone who turned into crazy psycho! He found out he was adopted & his biological parents were mentally disturbed not fit to raise a child. He was raised by his foster parents who where worked in the science field. So, he guess it's was nurture not nature that didn't turned him into a psycho & a negative factor in normal society.

[hitch0403]

There is also a lot of influence with people being involved with fortune tellers.Can you imagine a pregnant woman going to one and the teller tells her to abort the child cos they would be evil?

The pregnant woman made a mistake in going to the teller in the first place.

When you know the truth it sets you free from situations like this.

[fillfran82]

I feel that people are born with a clean slate & behavior is mostly learned. I heard on NPR about a behaviorist who as a joke took a brain scan to see if he had any psychotic imagery. Results was he did have them. He couldn't understand why he didn't turn into serial killer or someone who turned into crazy psycho! He found out he was adopted & his biological parents were mentally disturbed not fit to raise a child. He was raised by his foster parents who where worked in the science field. So, he guess it's was nurture not nature that didn't turned him into a psycho & a negative factor in normal society.

Hello!

I have to agree with you when we are born we are brand new and taking life in. Nurture could definitely have a positive role and help the person live a better life.

[JediJohnnie]

When Jesus told his followers to carry swords on the night before he died, this was not so that they could protect themselves. (Luke 22:36, 38) Rather, Jesus wanted to teach them a lesson: His followers should not use violence, even when they have to face a crowd that has weapons. (Luke 22:52) After Peter used his sword to attack the high priest’s slave, Jesus commanded Peter: “Return your sword to its place.” Then Jesus stated a principle that guides Christians even today: “All those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.”​—Matthew 26:51, 52.

Again: Context. Jesus told them to take swords to defend themselves when going out to preach the gospel:
Luke 22:36
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”

“Nothing,” they answered.

 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

He was not commanding them to protect Him, but themselves during the persicution.
Matt 26:55-56
  Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

By your explanation, Jesus told them to carry swords to prove that they would be tempted to use those swords and they did? How absurd!

Then there's this from James 1:13
 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Why would Jesus Christ tell them to take swords, if using a sword is always wrong- when the purpose was to tempt them to use it (which Peter did) and have them fail- when the bible says God NEVER TEMPTS ANYONE??? It's Nonsense!!!!!!!

[JediJohnnie]

Re hell.....Why isnt Satan in a fiery hell and his angels that followed him?

Through-out the bilbe we see he is NOT only on earth but he is in heaven...until in 1914 he gets removed as Book of Revelation tells us with his horde and confined to earth and the woe begins starting with first WW!

Bible even speaks of Jesus being in hell.hades.sheol.Those meaning common grave for mankind.

A  good tree produces fine fruit.A rotten tree produces rotten fruit.Its the same way with many teachings in this world.Those with the right heart condition towards Jehovah will recognize them.Satan has blinded the minds of the un-believers.

So Satan only got cast out of heaven when the JWs became organised in 1914? lol This is cult theology 101. lol